Ask HN: Who's sick of remote work?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30239283

by bckr • 4 years ago

75 125 4 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I thought it was the best for a while. But long hours in my house alone is killing me.

homie• 4 years ago

Not I

bckr8• 4 years ago

I'd say you're fortunate. Anything you do to stay sane, or do you think it's a nature thing?

Sevii• 4 years ago

Leave your house.

Remote work has downsides, but you have the ability to fix them as opposed to the office where your only option is to switch jobs.

bckr8• 4 years ago

Do you mean "leave your house... to work somewhere else"? If so, that's sort of an option. But at that point, I might as well be working with my coworkers.

If you mean "leave your house... outside work hours", this is also becoming more and more possible, yet most of my waking hours are part of my workday.

pseudalopex• 4 years ago

Either or both.

meatsauce• 4 years ago

Getting out is important. Go outside. Play in the rain. Do yard work. Go for walks. Get sun.

jen20• 4 years ago

I've been working remote for over a decade now - the first eight of which were under non-pandemic conditions. Working from a coffee shop, from a park, from a plane or train are all eminently possible, and variation is the key to things being enjoyable.

Unfortunately the pandemic has sent middle managers mad for video calls and status updates, which has made things generally less productive.

prawn• 4 years ago

Work from a co-working space. You get the social aspects with more freedom (to move spaces, to be friendly or frosty with a co-tenant without risking employment, etc). I co-own a co-working space and we have part-timers and remote workers in the mix.

marcosdumay• 4 years ago

Do "work hours" apply? If so, yes, outside of them.

Leave your house to exercise, to do some task, to just see people going around. Do not stay all your time outside of work alone, go somewhere where there are people, and meet them. It doesn't need to be every day, but often enough.

BoysenberryPi• 4 years ago

I think what's really happening here is that most people, especially older men, are realizing how much of their social life is tied to work and going to the office. My advice is to get some hobbies, make some friends, join some groups. Even if you aren't willing to go out, finding groups and chatting online in a voice or video call is probably better than just sitting in your home alone.

czbond• 4 years ago

And don't forget us workaholics! My social group has almost always exclusively been work related. All the boring stuff happens outside of work ha.

MattGaiser4• 4 years ago

This is where a lot of my friends split on remote work, albeit for a different reason. They often moved to new cities, so they built a life entirely around work.

I went back to my hometown, so I had a large social network there already. Co-worker events intruded on my time with them.

oraphalous2• 4 years ago

Yeah - I have been pretty slack with my social life over the past two years with the pandemic and a lot of friends moving away as well.

But I still wouldn't trade remote work for the world. I can get a climb in at my local gym in the morning and a swim in the afternoon - with plenty of time left to cook n clean and some quality time with the missus.

edit - also my home desktop is just awesome... 12k of total pixels across three monitors... An awesome omnidesk standing desk... can eat from the fridge the food that I need n want. Aint no office offering me this...

Am hoping with the Omicron abating can finally get out a bit more and re-establishing some connections.

devoutsalsa• 4 years ago

Sounds like a nice home office. The only thing I'd change would be to get 6 more monitors so you can play Tic Tac Toe.

13of40• 4 years ago

I suspect there's a good chance you're going to wake up one day and find that you're an older man, so you might want to prepare yourself for the kind of social change that often comes with that.

That said, I'm actually dreading return-to-work to a certain extent, because it's optional at my company right now, so I've been able to make my office into a nice little interruption-free cocoon. I spent the summer outside with a laptop and 5G hotspot, but the weather right now isn't really conducive to that.

pc862• 4 years ago

I wish we'd stop calling it "return-to-work" - I've been working for years. We should call it something closer to what it is. "Return-to-burning-hours-every-day-on-the-interstate" maybe?

kutenai• 4 years ago

I think you are right. I've been fully remote for about 13 years. I love it, but I also have other things to keep me busy. I am a member of the local tennis club, and have many friends and acquaintances there, as well as year-round activities. We also have many church friends in the area, and my wife and I do gardening and other outdoor activities, so, any "free time" that we end up with is easily filled.

Don't just be remote and a total couch potato, enjoy the freedom, and make the best of it.

conductr• 4 years ago

This is the solution but the pandemic crippled it's practicality as a huge census shifted to WFH. It's been 2 years now and even in Texas, which has aggressively "reopened", most social stuff has been slow to come back and quick to be paused. I dine out a lot but pretty much with a small family circle these days, minimal work meals & entertainment.

notacoward• 4 years ago

Why older men? All through my career, it was the younger folks who tended to treat the office as a social hub as well as the place they worked. As they got older, they'd develop more contacts in their communities through spouses, children, etc. and "fade" from the social swirl at work. At the very top of the age distribution you might find empty-nesters who have trouble connecting online, but those people were already leaving of the workforce (voluntarily plus ageism) so statistically I think they're outweighed by the youngsters who never knew any other way to meet people. What experience have you had that's different?

rmk3• 4 years ago

It's harder to make friends once you get past a certain age. We become too set in our ways to be able to make friends.

Even if you have a hobby, it needs to be something that needs to be pursued in a group setting. Thus, hobbies such as singing in a choir will be much more effective at stimulating social contact than solo pursuits.

mmastrac• 4 years ago

I'm not, though I haven't necessarily been alone all the time. If I were single I might have a different opinion.

Been working remotely for ~7 years.

highwayman47• 4 years ago

Nobody. Join an exercise group 3x a week afterwork. Work friends are never real friends anyways.

bckr8• 4 years ago

I don't think it's nobody. The latter is a great idea, though. It's been difficult to think about with COVID, but worth a shot.

james-skemp• 4 years ago

Work friends are never real friends anyways.

If you don't spend time together outside work (work events don't count) then you're right.

However, I've had a number of coworkers translate to friends, especially after we stopped working together.

Work friends are like any other relationship: both sides have to work to make and keep things going.

zmcartor• 4 years ago

Disconnected co-workers can make remote work feel unbearable. The success of remote work is a company wide struggle and is largely a culture test. Those companies that can culturally transcend the geographical workplace will inherit the 21st century.

MattGaiser4• 4 years ago

Sure the problem isn't the long hours preventing you from spending time with people you would prefer over co-workers?

bckr8• 4 years ago

I think that's a very valid point. Part of this is definitely a lack of other socialization as well.

However, so much of the rest of my life is going to be work: I'd like to enjoy the people at my workplace.

nxm• 4 years ago

For me, the order of preference is: 1) fully remote 2) hybrid .. .. .. 10) full-time in the office

Yea I miss the office interactions, but not to the point where I’d want to go back in full-time.

nabaraz• 4 years ago

I love it.

I made a rule of not taking my work laptop outside of my desk. Previously, I was working from my couch and even my bed.

I’d also recommend taking an hour of lunch break to go outside (if possible).

tharkun__• 4 years ago

YMMV as always and your question makes you vary from my perspective already.

No I am not sick of remote work at all. I love it! My quality of life has improved many fold. No more commute means I get a lot more time on my hands to do the things that I'd otherwise not have enough time for or for which it would be too late in the day (think kids that need to go to bed shortly after everyone is home vs. having hours of time. Better sleep because we can sleep longer in the morning before everyone has to leave. Since I'm an introvert, no more draining office interactions. Even though as a manager I sit through lots of meeting in front of a screen, it's way less draining than doing it in the office.

Now as you can see from the above, I have lots of interactions still and part of that could be attributed to the fact that I have a bunch of meetings. Our company is pretty good w/ getting everyone to talk to each other and work with each other not just through text messages. Got a question? Quick call. "Team building" events chats on video, sometimes w/ games or food or just talk etc.

FWIW I do see the extroverts struggling but hey, us introverts struggled for decades before...

geoduck14• 4 years ago

FWIW I do see the extroverts struggling but hey, us introverts struggled for decades before...

I'm an extrovert. It was hard at first, but then I stopped "waiting to go back" and I sunk my teeth into "working remote". I shifted my personal social schedule to emphasize face-to-face friends. I crave leaving the house on the weekend - and I spend more time at the home-improvement store. I have spent money on my home office. I have shifted my body language to express myself within the bounds of the camera

ramesh31• 4 years ago

Good god, not me.

I feel guilty saying that the pandemic has changed my life for the better in so many ways. Being fully remote has given me an autonomy over my life which has led to a level of happiness I've never known before. Having the details of my physical existence abstracted away from how I earn a living has been the greatest thing to ever happen to me. It allowed me to pursue so many things in life I had put off like building a family and friendships and focusing my life around things that really matter. I can't imagine ever going back to the way things were before, and I spend time literally every single day thinking about how lucky and fortunate I am to be in this position.

MattGaiser4• 4 years ago

I joke with a friend that the future title of my memoir will be something like "How a Bat Gave me My Life" simply because work no longer has a monopoly on every hour of the weekdays. As long as I do my work, I can otherwise structure my time as I choose.

I can work extra on Tuesday and take a long lunch on Wednesday with a friend (like 3 hours) and nobody will know or care.

johnnyo2• 4 years ago

Unpopular opinion, but I was not a big fan. It was mainly because my house lacked a dedicated, private office where I could work, compared to my real office.

My living space isn’t that big, but I’ve got a great office at the job. Big desk, big screens, giant whiteboard, and it’s just around the corner, so commute is minimal.

MattGaiser4• 4 years ago

I want an in depth study that looks at things like this, as I prefer remote work because I have a bigger desk, bigger screens, a whiteboard, more screens, a better chair, and am not seated near a large window that dumps a ton of glare on my screen (my prior job).

So for me, remote is an upgrade in terms of infrastructure. For you, it is obviously a downgrade.

How many people who hate remote work have a Herman Miller Aeron vs a wooden kitchen chair?

How many who love remote work went from an open office vs a private office?

johnnyo2• 4 years ago

Agreed. For me, the logistics of having a dedicated office just down the road far outweigh the costs of the commute, and I like the mental and physical separation of home and work.

But, if that commute was 45 mins, or if I had a larger living space and a worse onsite location, I can guarantee that my opinion would reverse.

kurko4• 4 years ago

I see most discussions around liking/disliking remote work include the infrastructure/equipment as argument. I personally like remote in great part because of it.

I love my 4k display, my standing desk, my keyboard, my Aeron Chair. However, I doubt that if those were offered it'd be reason alone for me to go back to the office.

atlgator• 4 years ago

Remote work doesn't mean stuck in your basement. Go work from Starbucks, spend a day at WeWork or other shared office space, apply as a non-degree seeking student at the nearest university and hang out on campus. The world is your oyster, provided you can keep normal business hours.

joezydeco• 4 years ago

The folks at Starbucks are gonna be really pissed if I haul my entire lab bench into their store for the day.

vncecartersknee• 4 years ago

Nope, don't ever want to go back to the office, except for monthly team lunches or something.

high_byte• 4 years ago

anyone who isn't married, kids or girlfriend, as well as many people in those groups.

Apocryphon• 4 years ago

I’d prefer a hybrid arrangement of 1, maybe 2 days at most to have close in-person collaborative work with a team and to get the meetings out there in person, but it’s impossible to be sick of having no commute.

bckr8• 4 years ago

I think this would be really good for me.

jstx12• 4 years ago

I’m with you. I hated it from day 1 and still do.

tebruno99• 4 years ago

Nope, love it.

animal_spirits• 4 years ago

My very first real career job started February 2020, so I was only in the office for about two months, which was alright. But work from home is all I really know so far. Would be nice to have an office within walking distance though

pooper• 4 years ago

People used to have offices. Not anymore. You'll be lucky to have a cubicle. You'll more likely work in an OpenOffice plan. Some unlucky ones will probably learn the term "hot desking". Ffs stop this nonsense and just let me work from home.

senectus1• 4 years ago

I mix it up, a few days in the office to reconnect and a few days at home...

foobarbecue2• 4 years ago

Remote work is amazing. I go surfing 4 times a week now, and I get more work done than ever.

foobarbecue2• 4 years ago

I would say though that it would be nice to have social events with my coworkers again. They're all great people and I love socializing with them. I was never the type to chat at the office though since I'm always trying to get stuff done when I'm there. So, I'm looking forward to the restart of happy hours and hope they'll set up some retreats and things, the last thing I want is to go back to having people try to chat with me while I'm working.

scarface74• 4 years ago

Even before Covid, I had a job I liked, The pay was decent for my local market, I liked my coworkers. I had a decent amount of autonomy and I got to upskill quarterly.

I was still looking for another job that was fully remote. I will never work in a loud open office again.

bb88• 4 years ago

I don't miss office work one bit. When I commuted to an office building in the NYC area for a company I'm sure you've heard of, all the bathroom stalls would be full at a certain point in the day.

If you had to go -- my god -- and good luck finding an open stall.

ragnot• 4 years ago

To be honest, I can never go back. Remote work is such a perk that I'm willing to quit and move jobs solely to maintain it.

ageofwant2• 4 years ago

Yes. Not going back, and that's more or less it.

danrocks• 4 years ago

I am. Working from home in Hong Kong is like being that guy from the movie Old Boy, who's held at a tiny hotel room for 15 years.

siddboots• 4 years ago

I love remote work, but the timing of this particular pandemic has just sucked. Two small kids at home, with my wife and I trying to share parenting and part time work - throw WFH into the mix and everything kind of falls apart.

nstart• 4 years ago

I can relate to this. I’ve worked remotely for 6 years but that feeling you mentioned is something I’ve felt for the past year.

I think it’s worth noting that remote work during the pandemic doesn’t really do justice to what remote work should really be. Prior to the pandemic kicking in, my remote work involved mostly working at home. But when I felt the need for change, I’d combine things like grocery shopping with a visit to a nearby cafe and I’d work for a few hours there. Other days I’d meet up with a friend I worked for and I’d work out of their office for a day and enjoy lunch with them. In the mornings I’d drop my son off at school and go to a nearby coworking space and hotdesk there. Remote work also meant that I was able to break my work day into a few segments and I could then take on things like coaching school children in some sports.

With the pandemic that all changed. Instead of taking my son to school, I sat in the room with him to help him with the laptop from time to time. Work was a few steps from there to my table. No meeting with friends to work. No cafe work. No going out to break up the day.

I’m sad that most peoples remote work experience has basically been work from home all the time instead of work on terms you are happiest with. If this had been my experience from the start I’d be kind of itching to go back and see people at the office from time to time.

With pandemic restrictions lifted for the most part, things have now gotten much better. So I’m gradually becoming “un-sick” of working remotely again.

All that to say, what you are feeling is perfectly normal. Just do understand that this pandemic edition of remote work is definitely not normal. It’s isolating and should never happen on a normal day.

bckr8• 4 years ago

All that to say, what you are feeling is perfectly normal.

Thank you for the kindest, most useful comment

brendoelfrendo• 4 years ago

Nah, it’s great. I kinda miss the segregation between home and work, but I was already working in a different office from the rest of my team so working in the office didn’t get me anything in terms of efficiency.

I’ll take the time back from not having to commute over having some face time with people I don’t know all that well anyway.

My advice for someone having trouble would be 1) try and get some more time away during your day - go get lunch down the street or at least step away to your kitchen and don’t pay attention to work while eating, 2) work somewhere other than where you rest or have fun, if you can (so no working from bed, for example), and 3) make sure you get out of the house sometimes; maybe don’t get groceries delivered, for example, because getting them in person means you get a chance to change scenery.

marksmith2996• 4 years ago

Definitely the opposite for me. I never wanted to work from home and for the first 6 months expected I'd go back to the office when I could. Now I'm ready to quit if my job requires returning to office lol.

ThePaulAlek• 4 years ago

After starting my first job out of college as a software engineer I have yet to meet my colleagues in person and it has already been almost a year and a half. The team I am on has been working together for years in person so they have great relationships but since I only interact with them online and almost always over Teams chat I find it super difficult to connect. I make sure to set up video coffee chats with people in the company but it still doesn’t feel the same . At this point I doubt I will ever meet my first work colleague team since I am planning to change jobs. In a grand scheme of things it isn’t a big deal but this Covid thing has really impacted some mile stones like senior year of college, graduation ceremony, and now young professional life.

The solution: I think there should still be an option of remote work, since most people don’t need to be in the office at all time but everything about the “office culture” needs to change. Maybe office size should be smaller, more WeWork team meet-ups or meet at coffee shops, meet in the library or public space what ever but having a big empty office might not be the ideal going forward. This is an exciting time and I do hope after the pandemic is all done with that we can start figuring it out

elektor• 4 years ago

The only thing I miss about being in the office is the ability to read faces. I’m a pretty anxious person and tend to read too much into short emails/Teams message, wrongly assuming someone is upset with me.

kurko4• 4 years ago

This is an important point. Being able to give the benefit of the doubt is critical in an environment where trust is so vital. Team meetings/retreats are essential for that because it gives you more context about how people tend to react IRL, and when reading text it becomes more chill because you know who's on the other side.

ageofwant2• 4 years ago

No your lack of socializing is killing you. Don't blame remote work, that's just incidental. Go join a sex, sailing or running club.

keithnz• 4 years ago

I personally love it, though, I have my family at home, so it's great, I get more time with my youngest son!

twothamendment• 4 years ago

Not me. I've been remote for 6 years and don't ever want to go back.

The first time I worked remote I didn't know how to leave work. It was always there, so I worked - too much. Set some office hours and walk away when it is done. Try to find reasons to get out, even on lunch breaks or a 15 minute break.

josephcsible• 4 years ago

I really hate going weeks or months at a time with my only interaction with co-workers being through emails and tickets. I wish we could have a hybrid setup where everyone is in the office 1 or 2 days a week.

kurko4• 4 years ago

Suggestions: daily standup (or a few times a week); pair programming more often; book club; 1h-presentations on technical topics once a week.

powvans• 4 years ago

I’ve been remote for 12 years. I am an extrovert. I have always missed the office a bit, but never enough to seriously consider going back to in person. I would absolutely go back for the right opportunity. Maybe I’ve missed some great opportunities because I don’t really seek jobs that require in person.

For me, remote work enables a richer life. I get to spend more time with my children, I can help my wife when something comes up, I can go to the gym or for a walk in the park, I can have lunch with a friend in the neighborhood, and I have more time to work too!

Now that everyone is working remote, it’s even better! In the past there was always a bit of struggle if I was working for a company where most were collocated in an office. Now that everyone is remote, it’s so much easier to conduct meetings, pair program, and just get things done.

Lastly, it’s absolutely possible to make deep meaningful connections with people through remote work. I consider many of my coworkers from the past decade to be close friends, despite the fact that I rarely see them in person. Remote work is no different than anything else in life; you will get out as much as you put in. Embrace it.

marak830• 4 years ago

IMHO the only people that think remote is bad, is the middle managers losing their fiefdom

Edit: JohnHauge

Just because that is your idea doesn't make my comment incorrect.

JohnHaugeland• 4 years ago

the one and only reason i've heard and been sympathetic with is that working from home, near the kids, is hard

pc862• 4 years ago

Being alone for long hours in your house is unrelated to remote work. Go on walks in the morning, go to the gym in the afternoon, go out for lunch (even if you cook, go eat in a park or something).

d_runs_far• 4 years ago

I lucked out, in a completely arbitrary move, I did a quick renovation project in December 2019 that gave me a decently set up office space in our house. Fast forward to March when we were sent to work from home for 'two weeks'.

Since then I've been to the office maybe 15 times, never for more than a couple hours at once.

I do not have any desire to be back working in the office. Couple big reasons: - the commute, while nothing compared to some of you, 30-45 min in the car each way is a mental drain, not to mention my current vehicle with the price of gas would be a killer on the bank account. - Family - I love that I am home to pick up my son off the school bus, get a few minutes to chill with him before I go back to wrap up some end of day business. Then I start making dinner for the family. Pre-pandemic was the rush to the after-school program, rush to get dinner made before any evening activities. - Structure of my day: I was always subjected to the 'drive by chats' at the office. Now, I put some blocks on my Teams channel in the calendar, and just get shit done when I know my brain is more likely to engage in deep work. If people try to schedule meetings, I point them at the calendar to look for a slot. And for many days, I know that from 12-2pm I can never really seem to focus, I just take a long lunch, and if the weather is good, go for a run. I do a bit more follow up on things in the evening and feel less rushed about the whole day.

I have no real desire to be back in the office full time and will resist as hard as I can.

factorialboy• 4 years ago

Remote work is not always work from home.

morphle2• 4 years ago

I've always been working remote since age 7. Until I did an ISP startup, now I had 10 people in an office. I only went there twice a month, I kept working at home. So I built the datacenter in my home.

I crave long periodes of wild camping in Nature. So I finally changed my work around so I can work remotely from my wild camping sites for the rest of my life. It is even cheaper than working from home.

I now sell remote work houses and mobile tiny houses on trailers and trucks in nature in the Mediterranean and Southern US. With 1 Gbps internet and backups, full off-grid solar energy and water recycling. With or without acres of land for €1/$1 per m2. Less than $50K for everything. Some things are harder, like 4WD harddisk backup (I have to stay put for the backup to finished or the head vibrations will crash the disk) and outside big screen sunlight glare.

The hardest part of working remote is finding cofounders to apply to YC with me. As you have to get to know them through video chat, it takes up the mayority of my time.

cirrus3• 4 years ago

oof

morphle2• 4 years ago

a DH0 or an DH1 ad hominem by a cerebrally challenged [1]? Probably TL;DR [2].

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

eric4smith• 4 years ago

It takes discipline.

You have to love your work.

And that, my friends, is why many people will not be able to remote work. All the stories you read in the comments here so far are for people who really love their jobs. You can feel it in every word that's lovingly typed. Families. Spouses. Nature. Inspiration. etc.

But for many people who absolutely don't like their jobs (most people), remote work is not a panacea. Without the structure and discipline of the office, they cannot and will not cope. And that's the dirty little secret of remote work.

For every person who sings the praises of remote work. There are 10 people who slack off with Netflix, YouTube, friends, etc. during work from home.

Lets keep it 100 guys.

lamontcg2• 4 years ago

For every person who sings the praises of remote work. There are 10 people who slack off with Netflix, YouTube, friends, etc. during work from home.

Like they weren't sneaking in reddit and HN the whole time they were in the office as well. Just with the constant mental stress of getting "caught" doing exactly what everyone else was doing.

tluyben22• 4 years ago

We hired a guy when we were still in the office years ago (we went remote long before the pandemic): his trial month was great; he was engaging, smart, etc. We felt lucky we got him. Straight after that month, he seemed to have fully lost interest. A few months later he still showed 0 interest, had to be dragged along to do any work. He seemed to make late evenings in the office though: we did not get it. We collected enough proof he was violating his contract and fired him; upon inspection of his computer, we found terabytes of downloaded porn. Incredibly weird but I guess if you don't like reddit or Netflix...

notesinthefield• 4 years ago

I dont know how much longer I can pretend to care about my job when it is so painfully obvious many of my colleagues dont. The fiercely passionate actually dont seem to notice that some arent like them when everyone is remote. Thankfully its not demanding.

tluyben22• 4 years ago

The fiercely passionate actually dont seem to notice

They probably notice but do not care: a lot of (most I know anyway) passionate people tend to not compare/waste time with people that do not help them improve. Indeed remote work makes that easier for 'their side' as well.

But find another job: life is too short.

rmk3• 4 years ago

This is a very insightful comment. It's incredibly difficult to knuckle down and "work" when (a) your work is not going to be noticed (b) you are not getting a promotion no matter what; someone else has been identified for the promotion (c) you dislike most of your colleagues because of their personality traits or work habits. In a way, there is no need to. You have been retained for your time (that is the essence of full-time employment), and after a certain point, the onus is squarely on your employer to get their money's worth by putting proper structures to incentivize good work. Caveat emptor.

CodeGlitch• 4 years ago

It takes discipline.

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk

codingdave• 4 years ago

Anyone who dislikes their job enough to slack off at home will likewise find ways to slack off in an office. You think the stereotype of people wandering the hallways, bugging people over cube walls is anything other than the office equivalent of Netflix?

Sit in a conference room with some team members, and you guys can just chat all day. Take long lunches. Go really slow back and forth to the bathroom. Get snacks from the kitchen. If you are in a big office, just walk laps around every floor. And definitely take the longest path to any destination.

Or there are even ways to waste massive time while being "productive" - every time a question arises, be the guy to handle it - by walking to the desk of everyone involved, making yourself the middle-man of all communications. You can kill 3 hours getting to the bottom of a problem that would have taken 10 minutes with some emails. And get office kudos for "taking ownership of problems".

This idea that offices enforce discipline is woefully uncreative.

mFixman• 4 years ago

I thought I was sick of remote work until I tried going back to the office.

Here's what I had forgotten:

1. Foul air in unnecessary air-tight buildings without a single open window.

2. Time wasted in making people believe you are working when you cannot work.

3. Blinding bright lights on at full power the entire day.

4. So much noise.

The pandemic made me lose my ability to not be miserable in an office, and I think I'm better without it.

lamontcg2• 4 years ago

After a decade of research showing they impair productivity, an Open Office Plan is just insulting to my intelligence at this point.

squiffsquiff• 4 years ago

You forgot to include long walks to and queues for oversubscribed W.C.s

antisthenes• 4 years ago

Nope.

I have a dog that keeps me company. And I don't particularly enjoy driving and sitting in an office with grumpy people that I have barely anything in common with.

Also - haven't had a respiratory sickness since Jan 2020 - which means other people were getting me sick in the office.

theklr• 4 years ago

Not sick of it per say, but sick of its current iteration. Too much is attempting to mimic in person.

dookahku2• 4 years ago

What's stopping you from leaving the house?

bckr8• 4 years ago

Besides the pandemic, too much work. "Startup life"! I wouldn't mind working really hard, if I had the reward of getting to know my coworkers as a bonus.

dookahku2• 4 years ago

Maybe go somewhere else that has people but doesn't involve coworkers, or work? Nature is always a good bet.

olegious• 4 years ago

I'll never go back if I can help it, my happiness and productivity have increased dramatically. I wouldn't mind having the OPTION to go into the office every once in a while for social reasons.

mrobins• 4 years ago

I sympathize. I became stir crazy working at home 6-9 months into the pandemic. I like having an office as a separation between my work and home lives. I like being at a place designed for working where other people are working. I like the change of scenery.

Most surprising was I realized I actually get a lot out of having a commute. In the morning it’s time to think about what’s coming up for the day and in the evening it’s time by myself to unwind before walking in the front door.

When my company went fully remote and closed our office we gave people the option of getting a coworking space. I took advantage, I wasn’t sure I’d use it at first but figured it was worth a try. After a couple days I never looked back. Shortly after a friend who works remotely for a different company decided to share it with me and we got a bigger space. With the changes combined I noticed an immediate and marked improvement in my mental health.

For us, it’s great. We have a lot of the social benefits of being in an office even through we don’t work together. We also have strong relationships with our coworkers as our companies build remote-first cultures. To me it’s the best of both worlds and I’d have a hard time working all alone again.

nickm12• 4 years ago

Wow. This sounds just like me.

Remote work really started getting to me around Jan 2021, at which point I started taking hour long walks every evening as a way to clear my head. This worked up until a point, but after another 6 months and getting vaccinated, I knew I had to have a change.

For the last 6 months I've been biking into my office, which is nearly empty. I spend my mornings in a coffee shop and afternoons at my desk with a big monitor and keyboard. Per our building rules, I need to be in a closed office alone to work without a mask, but it's all worth it. There are a few other people who come into the building and we all sequester in offices. It's weird, but I'm loving this lifestyle.

My work-from-home setup was actually pretty nice, but I really need to get out of the house and have a place that means "work" to my brain. It also feels good to come home at the end of the day. I still miss my coworkers. Would love to get back to a world where we could have in-person meetings again and all the rest, but I'm getting the sense that I'm in the minority.

FWIW, I consider myself a "social introvert". I like to socialize, but it's a draining activity (like playing sports) and I always need some alone time at the end of the day to recharge.

oblib• 4 years ago

When I lived in the city I would take hikes in forest preserves and parks. That is what worked for me to cure the doldrums of winter, and even being alone. It made a huge difference.

Look into "Shinrin-Yoku". I hadn't heard about this until a few years ago, but it confirmed what it did for me.

I live in a forest now and still make a point to get outside and walk the paths I have on our little 5 acres. Just getting out and sitting in the midst of it works. Give it a shot.

andrei_says_2• 4 years ago

I absolutely love remote work and have a very hard time understanding why anyone would want to spend 14h a week commuting their laptop to a noisy cubicle, buy a shitty $18 lunch in a plastic container and get extra tired on their way home.

I have multiple zoom meetings every day and feel much much closer to my coworkers than during office times.

Also I don’t get interrupted all the time and am able to actually get stuff done.

I guess I am not an extrovert and don’t need to crowdsurf to feel adequate.

D13Fd• 4 years ago

I'm a major introvert but I prefer working from the office.

My house is full of distractions. I have kids, so it can be a bit messy (though not too bad) and ever-changing.

My office, however, is clean and organized and ready to go the second I get there. With COVID, almost everyone else tends to work from home, so I get the office to myself or mostly to myself most days. I can sit and really focus on work with zero distractions. The commute is essentially free, since I have to drop my kids off anyway.

andrei_says_2• 4 years ago

Makes sense, I have full control over my environment at home.

And I’m a bit confused. You say you drop your kids off on your way to the office. Why not drop them off and drive back home where they are now not?

readonthegoapp• 4 years ago

You thought about asking for a 4-day work week?

32 hours

bckr8• 4 years ago

No, in fact my manager said I should be working 50 hours at least. I took it as good advice, now I resent it.

jaredcwhite2• 4 years ago

"long hours in a house alone" != remote work

Remote work is work you do remotely—i.e., outside of a traditional "butts in seats" company office where employees form an in-person collective during business hours.

Obviously the pandemic has put a damper on the various possibilities available, but by way of example, you can work at (assuming all you need is a laptop + internet connection):

a cowork space (either drop-in or rent a dedicated desk), a coffee shop, a restaurant, a mall, a train, a car, outside at a park, a hotel, a library, up on a mountain top, at a friend or family's house, on a boat, and probably one or two other options I'm forgetting. (Fun fact, I've done all of those.)

Now do I actually do the majority of work at my home office? Yeah, sure. I'll grant you that. But by intentionally making sure it's not just my all-the-time default and mixing things up as often as possible, it keeps remote work fun and engaging.

danfo• 4 years ago

This is missing from the related poll that @alfiedotwtf posted[1].

WFH actually means work from heckin' anywhere!

Changing environment is good for your creativity[2]. Nature is good for your health[3].

OK so I'm starting to get rained on :)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30239441

[2] https://www.fastcompany.com/90415522/how-making-small-change...

[3] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2020/04/nurtured-nature etc

quickthrower2• 4 years ago

Yeah any work done from cafes or boats wont work for me. I want a good desk, seat, 2 monitors, keyboard or I find it too frustrating to work.

jstx12• 4 years ago

I wonder how many people think that this is good advice and at the same time

- complain about the office being distracting

- talk about the importance of good ergonomics while working

- talk about how important deep work is to them and how they don't like being interrupted

jaredcwhite2• 4 years ago

- Offices are distracting because people there can interrupt you at any time because they're the people you work with. You don't have the buffer of email/chat/voicemail/etc. (and assuming you have healthy work habits, you rarely sense the urgency to immediately response to any of those).

- Good ergonomics are important when you're working in a single location for hours every day.

- Sometimes I find it _easier_ to slip into deep work when I'm not in my typical place of doing business. There I feel the weight of all the fires I might have to put out and other daily responsibilities. Off in some other locale, I can tune everything else out and it's just me and my objective.

inter_netuser• 4 years ago

Not one person in comments stated they love to sit in traffic for two hours every single day.

Strange, isn't it?

rmk3• 4 years ago

Let me break that trend and say that I enjoyed driving to work. I spent an hour total (back and forth), sometimes 1.5 hours if I went during peak traffic. But it was time I enjoyed: I would listen to my favorite music, think, and have time to transition from one environment to another. I'd arrive at the destination refreshed. Working from home feels like being a caged animal whose 'change of scene' is a twenty-yard walk to another corner of the cage.

I agree with the sentiment you have expressed in your comment, though. Every person has a threshold beyond which the commute goes from a daily ritual that one looks forward to, to an ordeal that one ends up dreading, and it varies from one person to another. I have been lucky to have always had a commute below my pain threshold.

rickstanley• 4 years ago

I'm not sick of it, but I have this urge to get out more, to Coworking spaces and Cafes. I consider myself an introvert, but I like to see people walk around and talk to each other, I don't know how to explain, it's an interesting feeling knowing that someone, at any time, look at you and wonder what you're doing.

But by no means I want to get back to office. The feeling of being somewhat obliged to comunicate, in person, with other people tires me, and I'm left with an ignominious ways to avoid this.

Salgat• 4 years ago

Go to a shared office space or get friends to see during lunch and after work. This is not a WFH issue, this is you just being lazy.

seanmcdirmid• 4 years ago

I'm really in love with having my own office. Given how that it is impossible these days in actually offices, the fact I can work in my own space at home is nice. If there was a chance of me having my own office somewhere else, it might be a harder choice.

nicbou• 4 years ago

I love remote work, but the pandemic made it harder.

I used to bike to random cafés and work from there, but those are not attractive right now. I can't work on my balcony because it's too cold.

When the day is over, I have nowhere to go. It's harder to see other people. There isn't as much to do in this cold, gray weather. Thus I spend a lot of time in the same chair, looking at the same screen.

When the sun returns and the restrictions lift, it will be a great time to work remotely.

My schedule is fairly flexible, so I escaped this dreadful weather and went on a roadtrip. I hike and bike, then work in the evenings. It feels good to be outside.

I wish that laptop-friendly places were better advertised, and that more hotels provided appropriate workspaces. This would make working on the road much easier.

shinymark• 4 years ago

12 years ago I worked remotely for the first time from a small apartment. For the first 6 months or so I loved it. The flexibility primarily.

But I came to hate the isolation. I crave human interaction in all aspects of life, including work. I never want to work full time remote again.

rcarmo• 4 years ago

I hate spending long hours indoors, but not because I’m there—because I’m constantly in calls and meetings that force me to be in front of a computer that long.

It would be fine if it wasn’t wall-to-wall calls and discussion and if we had time to focus, let alone go out and exercise (which is why when I clock out, I really shut everything down and leave my home office).

hammyhavoc• 4 years ago

Not me. Been doing it for a decade.

My uncle has been doing it since the 70s with proofreading physics textbooks.

freedom2099• 4 years ago

I don’t know..: for me and my colleagues it is amazing! Our company even migrated to a almost full remote setup (only one day a week in the office). What’s not to like? No commute! Sleeping 8h every dai! No social interactions! Silence! Better office equipment (my home setup is way better than anything the office provide)! Being able to use idle time during the day to take care of quick chores freeing up time later one! Man… we are living the dream!

el_don_almighty• 4 years ago

You can work from home...

But you can't career from home

Fire-Dragon-DoL• 4 years ago

I love working from home and the pandemic improved my life dramatically from that perspective (the world is adapting for people who like being at home).

I guess being alone makes it terrible, I can see that. I lost some interpersonal skills related to small talks, so I feel weirder than usual when meeting strangers. I can't envision how that scales when being entirely alone.

That being said, you might want to revise where you work. We have a "virtual office" policy where we usually hang out in zoom and "light talks" are not halted like we would normally do. That makes a huge difference in team bonding and relationships

riddleronroof• 4 years ago

Just work from a coffee shop. You don’t miss office, you miss people.

parasense• 4 years ago

TL:DR, I'm not a big advocate of WFH, but it's a biased opinion.

The bottom line: Perception is reality.

One thing I notice is there is usually a pre-WFH and post-WFH perception.

Firstly, there are two broad categories: employees who have an office, and those who don't.

Things are different when the job never had an office visit, and the gig was always 100% remote, but let's save this situation for last.

For the scenario where people are normally working at the office, when somebody first gets WFH they seem to have a bump in productivity, and I call that phenomena the "novelty phase". We can guess all the reasons, some of the easy things are:

* not having to commute, reclaiming commute time as productive work time.

* fewer distractions from [insert list of distractions at the office], increased focus due to isolation.

* wanting to appear more productive, as to not potentially lose the so-called "privilege".

* better amenities. In essence your home office is potentially way nicer than your employer's workspace. You might have a loud clicky mechanical keyboard nobody is going to complain about, or gigantic gaming monitor, or multiple monitors, better outside view from a window, or even having a window, or great tea/coffee, etc..

* working hours flexibility; you start or stop working according to your combined work & life schedule situation.

* pretty much anything you can compare with working at the office, you can rationalize ways things are better, you're in "rationalization & denial"... well save the denial part for later.

People are more productive during the honeymoon phase, but slowly over time this "productivity bump" diminishes.

* you lay on the sofa, watch TV, or read a book... time gets away from. You potentially start missing meetings.

* other people in the office are having impromptu face-2-face meetings, your sometimes not invited or ever aware... the shift to irrelevance creeps in slowly.

* due to a perceived lack of accountability, some people get lazy, become less productive, and worse... indifferent. They have no stake in the game, or personal connection to co-workers.

* become over worked, actually working more hours of the day, and become legitimately burnt-out.

* sicks days become work days, and vacation hours accumulate to the point people take PTO just to burn hours.

But things are different for people who never worked at an office, because there is no basis for comparison, so all of the above issues are more or less nuanced, or not as relevant.

* when was the last time you were jetted out to a face to face meeting, if ever?

* got coworkers on the other side of the planet? How do those 6am meetings feel, or 9pm meetings? How does it feel not having set hours?

* got your office pimped out? Nice, and who paid for all that, you or your employer? Is that room your work in, was that your personal sanctuary before, but now become a place you go for work? And, as such have you worked on any of the personal activities or hobbies that used to happen in that room? Does going into that room now cause anxiety? A bunch of people choose to work in their so-called "home office" but before that used to be where they played online games, or maybe did hobbies or crafts... everyone's different, but the one thing is the same. Doing work in that personal space ruins that personal space from a mental perspective, and it's insidious because most folks don't realize this until it's onset.

HardwareLust• 4 years ago

Not me. I can do this forever, and would prefer it. Seriously, fuck going back to the office, you can have it.

synicalx• 4 years ago

I STRONGLY prefer my work to be as isolated as possible. I don't want work invading my real-life spaces - not in my living room, my study, my kitchen, or any other non-work related place I may go. Work is just work, it's the thing I do so I can afford to do the stuff I actually enjoy. Having the mental and physical separation of going to a totally different place to do work is something I like having, and you can't beat the bandwidth of an organic face-to-face conversation with no delay or audio problems.

I also couldn't care less about commuting, its 20 minutes either way and I actually enjoy having a chance to just chill out on the train and read. If your commute is too long then you're either living or working in the wrong spot.

Ask HN: Who's sick of remote work?

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