The Pixel 4’s face unlock works on sleeping people

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/10/the-pixel-4s-face-unlock-works-on-sleeping-unconscious-people/

by mataug • 7 years ago

95 139 7 years ago

rolph4• 7 years ago

thats a zero day worth looking into. A latex mask would be harder to do without consent, but we do have 3d printers and image analysis of high quality.

beyond someone cloning your face in latex and gluing it on thiers, there is facial excision, and it would be nasty to need caution about someone using your actual face. working hack or not just the attempt is disasterous to the victim

EpicEng• 7 years ago

If someone is going to rise to the level of creating a mask in your image to unlock your phone then you have already failed by using this feature to secure it. MI6 is coming after you and you're relying on something like this? C'mon.

cooljacob204• 7 years ago

Face unlock will always be for convenience, not real security.

To me it's like a front door lock. It's there to dissuade people. If someone is adamant enough they will get in.

ryanmcbride2• 7 years ago

Totally agree but moving the dot a little further down the line towards security is never a bad thing. Perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good, etc etc.

annexrichmond2• 7 years ago

Face Unlock is indeed for convenience, but that doesn't mean it can't be used as a secure method of authentication. So when it is implemented as such, it should be as secure as possible.

Apple claims its Touch ID is 5x more secure than a 4 digit passcode[1], based the probability of two fingerprints being the same. They claim that its Face ID is 20x more secure than Touch ID[2], or 1 in 1,000,000, which is similar to the probability of guessing a 6 digit password.

In my opinion, part of a secure implementation is requiring that the user is aware and looking at the device. So the fact that Pixel doesn't take this into account is a huge security flaw.

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204587 [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208108

ryanmcbride2• 7 years ago

At first reading this I thought "My iphone recognizes me right when I wake up so I'm sure someone could use unlock it while I was asleep or unconscious" but I tried it a few times while making a 'passed out' face and it turns out, nope. At least I couldn't get it to. Even tried using my hands to hold open my eyelids and it didn't unlock. That's pretty impressive.

deergomoo• 7 years ago

There’s a setting “Require Attention for Face ID” that controls this. It’s enabled by default, but if you’re unable or find it difficult to look directly at the sensor (or wearing sunglasses that block IR) you can turn it off and make it behave like the Pixel.

You can even point it at your face while looking away, and it won’t unlock until you make eye contact.

stordoff3• 7 years ago

It's surprisingly sensitive as well. I've just try tried focusing on a spot 5cm to the side/above my iPhone 11, and it reliably wouldn't unlock until I glanced at the camera.

rtkwe• 7 years ago

The iPhone uses the blaster IR + the camera to tell if you're looking at the phone to avoid this. Android should be able to implement this though because it really just looks for the IR reflecting off the back of your eyes which only happens when you're looking right at the light source. It's the same thing that causes(ed) red eye in photos.

outworlder• 7 years ago

I bet this half-assed implementation is only there so that potential shoppers with a checklist in hand will be able to mark the feature as present. I wonder how many reviewers fell for it.

tomerico• 7 years ago

I imagine that it's more nuanced - people expect biometric security from their phone today.

The Pixel 4 removed the fingerprint sensor, relying on the face recognition. I imagine that what happened is that the full functionality wasn't ready for launch, and they had to decide between shipping a partial implementation or postponing the phone's launch date.

OnlineGladiator3• 7 years ago

If they had reason to believe it wouldn't be ready, why did they choose to remove the fingerprint scanner? If both options were available there'd be an order of magnitude fewer complaints.

saagarjha2• 7 years ago

They should have done the second.

xvector2• 7 years ago

It's all pretty bad, Samsung and other manufacturers do the same thing. Copy Apple's marketing but not the security of their implementation.

agildehaus• 7 years ago

I don't know why anyone would want a face unlock instead of a simple fingerprint sensor. My phone is unlocked and ready for me before it even leaves my pocket.

The lack of it is one of the major reasons I'm not upgrading my Pixel 2.

tytso• 7 years ago

It's not like fingerprint sensors are all that secure.

From Mythbusters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAfAVGES-Yc

"Remember, according to the manufacturer says this lock has never been broken...."

Watch the whole video --- even the photocopy of the fingerprint was sufficient, which was the third (of three) attempted methods.... all of which worked.

csours• 7 years ago

That was from the 2006 season. Fingerprint scanners have improved significantly since then. This is of course, not a blanket statement (see Samsung headlines yesterday)

Ididntdothis• 7 years ago

Even in terms of usability I find fingerprint scanners much better. At a minimum I they should offer both options and not just eliminate fingerprint.

tjoff• 7 years ago

Wow, they didn't even include one. That is wild, oh well, no need to consider the pixel 4 then.

On such an expensive phone even.

ajconway• 7 years ago

It's actually a major feature that comes in very handy if you live in a cold place.

ceejayoz4• 7 years ago

Yeah. I ski a lot and face unlock would be very nice to have.

maerF0x02• 7 years ago

my fingerprint scanner often fails when I'm sweaty at the gym

bdcravens2• 7 years ago

I have cystic fibrosis - it can cause varying o2 sat levels, finger clubbing, and varying levels of salt/dryness in the fingers not typical for most. When I had an iPhone with Touch ID, eventually my prints would stop working, and I'd have to delete and reenroll them every couple of months (not exactly sure why, and CF may have nothing to do with it, but it seems like the most likely culprit)

Not that Face ID is perfect. When I go to the doctor, they make us wear masks, and I do breathing treatments a few times a day - all of which breaks Face ID.

Marsymars4• 7 years ago

Mine fails post rock climbing, so I registered a different finger in its post-climbing worn-down state.

on_and_off2• 7 years ago

I ordered a pixel 4 , almost only because my pixel 2 is busted, Google will still trade it in while Apple won't trade Android phones unless maybe if I go ask in a store (well, among other reasons but I am already verging off topic) .

None of the locking mechanisms I know protect you against all "threat vectors".

In particular, in case a shitty partner wants to access your phone while you are asleep, both fingerprint and google face unlock fail.

I do like the fingerprint sensor on pixel 2.

It could be even better if there was one on the screen for when the phone is on a flat surface, but it does the job well otherwise.

Nevertheless, an easy to use secure enough solution should work well enough against the threat most people worry about : somebody stealing their phone / forgetting it somewhere.

ngngngng• 7 years ago

How much are you getting for your broken pixel 2 trade in? I have a broken pixel 2 as well. The glass was so fragile and can't be replaced alone which is a huge disappoinment.

chipperyman573• 7 years ago

In particular, in case a shitty partner wants to access your phone while you are asleep, both fingerprint and google face unlock fail.

I get face unlock (because closed eyes and your muscles will be more relaxed), but why does the fingerprint sensor fail while you're asleep? Does it measure heart rate?

losvedir• 7 years ago

I'm upgrading to Pixel 4 and excited about face unlock. Supposedly it's incredibly fast, to the point where it's no different from using your fingerprint on a Pixel 2/3 while pulling it from your pocket, except you don't have to do that.

Since I live in Chicago and winter is approaching, I think it'll be pretty handy. I'm hoping their radar gesture thing will eventually allow triggering the Google Assistant, and then I can unlock and use most of my phone via voice without taking my gloves off.

singingboyo• 7 years ago

Does pixel 4 have squeeze-for-assistant? Quick google doesn't give me a definite answer.

I've got that combined with smart lock on the Pixel 3 - it goes a really long way, especially now that I have a smartwatch. (Which admittedly makes the phone assistant a touch redundant, but...)

Also - why not just use "Ok/Hey google"?

m463• 7 years ago

I like my iphone fingerprint unlock. I have not upgraded because of face unlock.

xvector2• 7 years ago

Have you actually tried FaceID? It's much more convenient in practice.

Angostura• 7 years ago

I don't have a phone with a face sensor, but I use my phone in the kitchen quite a lot, for recipes, timers etc and there have been many times with wet or floury hands, I've fancied FaceID. Similarly when carrying out outdoor activities wearing gloves.

matchbok• 7 years ago

Another instance of Android copying and iOS feature poorly. What exactly is Google even working on these days?

jiqiren• 7 years ago

google doesn't need to care because their users don't care. take a look at all the google apologist in this comment thread for a quick example.

mav3rick3• 7 years ago

Yeah right. Forgot "Night Sight" by Google which is only now copied by Apple as "Night Mode". What is apple working on these days ? This phone also has Soli in the phone. Apple is set to copy it for it's next phone.

maerF0x02• 7 years ago

They should just have an interactive login like "Make a sad face" or "Make a scary face" etc...

they facial movement pattern could become a sort of biometric and they'd get millions of samples for sentiment analysis / AI

nullandvoid• 7 years ago

Captcha for logging into my phone.. that's a fast track to insanity dont give Google ideas

cheriot• 7 years ago

Watching commuters unlock their phones would make my morning so much more entertaining...

altmind• 7 years ago

Your bio-metrics - your face, your voice, your fingerprints are your login, not your password.

You cannot change them, you leave this data everywhere and this data can be snooped and replayed easily.

Moreover, this data is singular for a person - its hard to assign yourself multiple roles or have multiple sets of credentials with different permissions or for different services.

We collectively should stop revolutionizing the access control sphere and use boring scheme with passwords, pins and tokens.

dominator008• 7 years ago

Now that they have a radar on-board. Gestures could be a viable alternative.

mattmanser• 7 years ago

Like "secret" questions, it's going to take a decade or two before big companies have this sink in and they realize how stupid they are being using them as logins.

koolba• 7 years ago

And before that we’ll have people grimacing or laughing into their phones to make “secret expressions”

Actually that’d be a cool idea for an auto wipe feature! If you blink a Morris code SOS it should send out a 911 alert with your location and then permanently lock the phone.

keanebean86• 7 years ago

I remember hearing the idea years ago that reasonable security needs these 3 somethings: 1. you know - password 2. you have - device/usb/etc 3. you are - bio-metrics

Is this still a thing? It sounds decent to me. Most auth usually uses 1 or 2 from the list but rarely all 3.

cogman10• 7 years ago

bio-metrics is really just not a good security measure, it is an extension of number 2 (You have fingerprints, your face, etc).

You'd be in just about the same place if instead of saying "you need biometrics" you said "You need 2 devices".

Even number 2 can be done wrong. 2 Doesn't work if the thing you have is a knowledge based thing. 2 only works if in the case that it responds correctly to a stimulus. Think things like RSA.

dllthomas• 7 years ago

Something you forgot, something you lost, something you were.

inetknght• 7 years ago

https://csrc.nist.gov/glossary/term/Multi_Factor-Authenticat...

MFA
Definition(s):
Authentication using two or more different factors to achieve authentication. Factors include: (i) something you know (e.g., password/PIN); (ii) something you have (e.g., cryptographic identification device, token); or (iii) something you are (e.g., biometric). See Authenticator.
Source(s):
NIST SP 800-53 Rev. 4 under Multifactor Authentication

dwaite2• 7 years ago

Biometrics are not a password, as they are not 'something you know'. Neither are they like a username, as the implementations for challenging biometrics often cannot guarantee either uniqueness or lookup capability.

They are rather one of the three classes of authentication factors, all of which have fundamental drawbacks. This is why you should always require more than a single class of factor as part of your authentication. For example, mobile devices typically require both physical possession as well as a knowledge or biometric challenge.

Leaving fingerprints on your device is why fingerprints aren't the best factor for mobile devices. Captured biometric data being snooped and replayed is why remote biometrics are weaker than biometrics done locally.

You can have a Web Authentication authenticator (e.g. FIDO 2 key) act as multiple different credentials, all unlocked with the same biometric. Biometrics being tied to a single account (or an account being tied to a single biometric) is an implementation detail, same as having only a single account per email address on a site is today.

A good portion of the revolutionizing is trying to optimize the UX, not authentication. The core fundamentals of authentication have been known for a while, to the point we have government standards such as NIST 800-63b. Of course, some of the revolutionary UX turns out to not implement the fundamentals correctly, because it's the tech industry.

Spivak• 7 years ago

This stance is a little silly from tech circles.

Something you are is the perfect form of authentication.

If you had a guard sitting at a door with only biometric information about the people they’re supposed to let in: faces, fingerprints, DNA samples, voice samples, etc. you could not fool them. Why? Because they can authenticate that the reading is coming from the actual person.

This is the revolution. If your phone can with good enough accuracy determine that it’s looking at a real alive attentive human face or a real finger then it’s game over. It’s an auth cred that can literally only be used by you, it can’t be copied, stolen, hacked, phished, and can be totally public while being useless to an attacker because they can’t mint a live human with real matching fingerprint.

If you think of biometric auth as “present a picture of your fingerprint” and not “present your actual finger” then of course you arrive at the conclusion that they’re useless as a credential.

scarejunba• 7 years ago

In general, I'm on board with what you're saying, but there's a thing with security credentials: it's important for me to allow me to give them away to the guy with a knife.

If knife guy comes for me and says "Your phone and password or your life" I can give it to him. It's kind of important that I can or else he'll take my bloody finger with him and body integrity is way more important to me than any amount of my data.

Literally, I prefer my fingers attached and you can clear my bank account rather than the alternative.

datapunk4• 7 years ago

The issue with Biometrics, atleast for those in the US, is that they are not protected by the 5th amendment. Court cases have reaffirmed this, meaning you can be forced to provide your Biometrics for law enforcement to gain access to your devices.

Some may feel this is acceptable with the thought if your not guilty then you should have nothing to hide, but this is a fallacy as it tramples over our 4th amendment rights. With passwords locked in your head, you cannot be forced to give that information as that is protected by the 5th amendment. Accessing the device or any information protected by a password must then be done with other means or not admissible as longer delays violates due process.

disappearance• 7 years ago

Something you are is the perfect form of authentication

Disagree. A bank manger with a gun held to their head is not a bank manager for the intended purposes.

macspoofing• 7 years ago

If you had a guard sitting at a door ... you could not fool them.

What??? Of course you could. That's why no building that cares about security actually relies on a human guard for authorization.

stordoff3• 7 years ago

In terms of security vs convenience though, I'm not going to enter a decent passphrase into my phone many times per day. A short passcode can trivially be shoulder-surfed, so FaceID is still better security than what I otherwise would be using, even if it's not perfect. The convenience also lets me have more apps individually locked, meaning I can hand an unlocked device to someone knowing they still have somewhat limited access.

cwkoss• 7 years ago

When face unlock first came out, my boss bought a phone with it and was showing it off at the office. I took a picture of him and held it up to the camera, and was able to unlock his phone.

He was a little less excited about the feature after that...

bluedino• 7 years ago

The more complicated systems either take a 3D scan of your face or use an IR camera (the later can be fooled by an IR photo...)

nokcha• 7 years ago

an IR photo

Is such a thing possible? My understanding is that IR emission from ordinary objects is primarily determined by their temperature. To imitate the IR signature of a human face, one would need a special-purpose, actively-powered device.

flyinglizard• 7 years ago

It should not be possible with iPhones, being that they use a depth sensor for FaceID.

wnevets• 7 years ago

Everything I've read about the new Pixels makes think Google doesn't actually want people to buy these things.

greenyoda• 7 years ago

Another biometric security flaw, reported yesterday:

Samsung: Anyone's thumbprint can unlock Galaxy S10 phone
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21280205

mikenew• 7 years ago

It feels like this whole wave of "face unlock" is just a dumb side effect of Apple not being able to get the in-display TouchID to work well enough for the iPhone X.

Maybe it's slightly better than a fingerprint unlock. Maybe it's slightly worse. Who cares. It feels like smartphones have moved firmly into the realm of silly marketing features (at the cost of security, apparently) and we've left behind any kind of substantial, interesting advancements. I mean, we now have a radar that let's us skip a song by waving (sometimes, if it works)? The future of smartphones is increasingly dumb.

api• 7 years ago

I bet it would work on a printed color picture wrapped around a melon, football, etc.

goldcd4• 7 years ago

I know this issue is going to be 'solved' with the next software update... ..but can't help but feel if you're trying to hide access to your phone from somebody who:

1) Can pick up your phone 2) Wants to access your phone 3) Has access to you and your phone as you sleep 4) You don't want to have access to your phone

Bluntly - awaiting an Android update is the least of your problems if you hit the criteria above.

goldcd4• 7 years ago

Or stepping back a bit to all those phones with fingerprint-readers (i.e. previous pixels and most phones out there)

DID YOU KNOW YOUR FINGERPRINTS EXIST WHILST YOU SLEEP?!?!?!!

I'm now considering quitting my job to create lockable-kevlar-mittens the people can don, to ensure your biometrics are safe as you sleep.

goldcd4• 7 years ago

Why would you downvote this?

Seems reasonable to raise the fact your suspicious sleeping-partner could press your digit to your phone, if they wanted access.

I know we all like a good story, but just taking pixels, I'm unsure how this issue makes your phone less secure than the last one.

annexrichmond2• 7 years ago

How do you know this issue is going to be 'solved' in a future software update?

Google never actually promised this. From The Verge:

When reached by The Verge, Google didn’t say one way or the other whether this added layer of security is definitely coming. “We don’t have anything specific to announce regarding future features or timing, but like most of our products, this feature is designed to get better over time with future software updates,” a spokesperson said by email.

goldcd4• 7 years ago

I've no idea, but there's the leaked settings screens that have an "attention" (i.e. eyes open) requirement (like IOS).

Maybe it'll be released, maybe it won't - but we know it's possible and I can't think of a reason google wouldn't add it.

huehehue• 7 years ago

Maybe I had a heavy lunch and dozed off at my desk? Or fell asleep at the beach/pool/park, or any number of plausible scenarios that don't involve living with a crazy person.

These aren't super common situations but they do happen, and a security flaw like this can be the difference between someone stealing an electronic brick and someone making off with corporate secrets and customer PII (if it's a work phone).

qzw• 7 years ago

Doesn’t this describe most students with roommates, or teens with siblings, or parents with children, or people who doze off on public transport, or...? The plausible scenarios seem pretty much endless.

eesmith• 7 years ago

To give concrete examples of "parents with children":

6-year old "Child uses sleeping mom's fingerprints to buy Pokemon gifts" - https://www.cnet.com/news/child-uses-sleeping-moms-fingerpri...

"How A Clever 7-Year-Old Boy Bypassed Touch ID On iPhone 6 Plus" - https://www.redmondpie.com/how-a-clever-7-year-old-boy-bypas...

flycaliguy• 7 years ago

Well... yeah. There are definitely people with big problems in this world. They can’t trust the people around them. They are trapped in bad situations.

Those people will literally be able to rest easier when this problem is solved.

antman• 7 years ago

somebody who:1) Can pick up your phone 2) Wants to access your phone 3) Has access to you and your phone as you sleep 4) You don't want to have access to your phone
awaiting Android update is the least of your problems if you hit the criteria above.

I am waiting for that Android update, because I have teenage kids

legohead• 7 years ago

never used or cared about face unlock

could you just point the phone at a picture of the person? or if depth is needed, just use a projection on a dummy head?

hawkesnest• 7 years ago

I just attempted to unlock my work-issued laptop with Windows Hello with my eyes shut. Worked perfectly, recognized me without issue. Guess I'll have to disable that now. :(

eth0up• 7 years ago

I find myself perplexed by many conventions, maybe I'm a lout. A tidy slice of tape unconventionally covers my phone's frontal camera, which to me is a functional and valued liberty, while the option lasts. I uneagerly anticipated the paradigm of soft switches, unserviceable batteries and blackbox gadgetry and have partially succumbed, slightly ashamed. Similarly I've feared the eventual ever vigilant indelible Eye squirming onto my required work surface. Will this be yet another lockstep along the one-way whizbang march of the techno enamored... or will future devices continue to serve and forgive their users of modifications and personal choices? Abridged keyboards, zombie MACs, unremovable apps, fastidious needy cameras, walled shrubberies, presidential alert suppositories, registered devices, opaque source, mutant laptops, ubiquitous Ring, very clever speakers (microphones)... and I hope I'm just a cantankerous luddite who doesn't appreciate the finer attributes of an autonomous device designed by insatiable gormandizers of data and sweathearts of authoritah. I use fingerprint auth, as a convenience, not for security. It seems among the options best left alone (you know, useful), but I suspect this will become a precedent for future models in general. Not against it as an option though.

The Pixel 4’s face unlock works on sleeping people

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