Microsoft introduces Windows 10 X for dual-screen devices

https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/02/microsoft-introduces-windows-10-x-for-dual-screen-devices/

by aminecodes • 7 years ago

372 291 7 years ago

vidanay• 7 years ago

Now we can all be 10 X developers!

rvz• 7 years ago

Good point, but I do concur with you that the 10 X developer legend has always been fortold through out the years and it is now a 'reality' thanks to Microsoft:

𝔜𝔢 𝔞𝔯 𝔫𝔬𝔴 𝔚𝔦𝔫𝔡𝔬𝔴𝔰 10𝔵 𝔡𝔢𝔳𝔢𝔩𝔬𝔭𝔯.

callalex• 7 years ago

Give it enough time and there will even be certification programs!

buboard4• 7 years ago

Here’s your 10 certificates

djsumdog2• 7 years ago

Slightly off topic, but with Android going back to version numbers instead of desert names, the next version will be Android 10 .. so we'll have Windows 10, macOS X (10.something) and Android 10. Arguably, Apple has been in the 10 camp longest.

Windows 10 X just sounds like reverse macOS (MacOS X 10.x)

umanwizard• 7 years ago

Minor nitpick - macOS no longer has an "X" in its name. The latest version is just macOS 10.14.6.

joombaga• 7 years ago

desert

"dessert". Easy mnemonic: It's so sweet they had to give it two S's :) (thanks Justin McElroy)

solarkraft• 7 years ago

The iPhone X is also still a thing, as well as a lot of Android phones on the bandwagon (and various products like the Tesla Model X, X Windows, X-Files).

I have been irritated by the X-trend for a while, but now it's really getting insane.

mikepurvis2• 7 years ago

To be honest, I was hoping this would have something to do with first party supply for X Windows on Windows, so that I could kick VcXsrv to the curb.

cobalt• 7 years ago

i use a uwp app called x410. havent used it a ton but works pretty well for me.

Also why would that ever happen...

awillen• 7 years ago

Came here to make this joke, glad someone beat me to it :)

d--b• 7 years ago

That looks quite inconvenient. I think it'd have been better if the screen could be unhinged, and only held together by a cable. That way, I and someone across the table could follow something on the same computer, but on a different screen. In fact, if I could attach as many screens as I wanted, that'd be pretty cool...

Spearchucker• 7 years ago

So you want two devices that communicate via a network? Or one device with muitiple monitors? Which are both already possible...

nkrisc2• 7 years ago

Of course it's already possible, but is it convenient? You're sitting at an airport gate and want to show something to your travel partner on your device. You unhinge the second monitor and hand it to them. That's what I envision based on what they described, not sending them a WebEx link or trying to setup some kind of screen share.

zamadatix• 7 years ago

I think it would make more sense to extend the range of motion to allow ∧ than it would to make it detachable with a cable.

Edit: It appears to do exactly this.

cma• 7 years ago

So while a regular PC will boot up and immediately run all of the services necessary to run a Win32 application, for example, Windows 10X won’t load this subsystem until it’s needed. This, the company argues, allows it to be very efficient with the resources available on the machine and extend its battery life significantly.

Hopefully they won't decide it is never needed.

throwaway8941• 7 years ago

They have already tried this one. It didn't end well.

oliveshell2• 7 years ago

Exactly; they got that out of their system with Windows RT. (And apparently the upcoming Windows 10 for ARM will ship with Win32 support via emulation.)

SomeOldThrow3• 7 years ago

What’s the killer app for win32?

someonehere• 7 years ago

I don’t understand the appeal but if there’s a market for it, it must be somewhere I never thought to look.

mattnewport• 7 years ago

I use my Surface with a pen running OneNote as a notebook quite a bit. The main use case for me is as my notebook in Farsi classes but I think it would work well in most classroom situations where you want to take freeform digital notes and perhaps mix them with sketches. When using it as a notebook the keyboard is folded away and having a second screen could be useful, the most obvious use case to me is having reference material on one screen while making notes on the other.

The nice thing about the Surface is that you can use it as a full Windows laptop as well and with the keyboard add on it looks like the Neo should work for that as well. Given these devices are quite expensive but also very portable it's nice to have that all in one functionality, particularly when taking short work trips.

chasing• 7 years ago

The dual screens look like a marketing gimmick in search of an actual use...

rstupek• 7 years ago

One persons marketing gimmick is another persons innovation

joe51502• 7 years ago

What about the ASUS ZenBook Pros that already have two screens?

Iwan-Zotow• 7 years ago

Are they popular? Just curious...

holy_city• 7 years ago

I disagree, screen real estate is precious.

SomeOldThrow3• 7 years ago

Presumably you can still use a window manager to page through all that content.

kube-system• 7 years ago

Which I agree with -- but the device they're showing it off on looks pretty cramped for screen real estate. It has two 9" screens. If we guess those are 16:9 displays, that's about 69 square inches of space... which is actually a few square inches smaller than a single 13" display of the same ratio. (72 square inches)

wongarsu• 7 years ago

Just wrap it in a nice leather cover and sell it as an ebook reader. Hold your entire library in the exact form factor of one hardcover book.

johnchristopher3• 7 years ago

I'd buy it only if one of the panel is an e-ink device.

mwsfc• 7 years ago

Mostly I agree with this sentiment. I'd argue it falls into the "we are doing this b/c we can" and "cheap easy marketing coverage" buckets.

WillPostForFood• 7 years ago

How cheap and easy is it to come up to develop a new version (even if it is a reskin) of Windows 10 and dual screen hardware? Surely it cost more in engineering than the marketing coverage they are getting.

Analemma_2• 7 years ago

I know it's not for everyone, but man, the Surface Neo is exactly the product I've been wanting. A foldable digital notebook that I can read books on, jot notes in, or markup PDFs on? Yes please.

GordonS4• 7 years ago

Ugh, I hate reading on LED displays - e-ink displays like Kindles have are an absolute delight to read on.

mrlala2• 7 years ago

Yeah what developer needs more than 1 screen. . . . . .

tvanantwerp2• 7 years ago

Meanwhile, I'm still dealing with random scaling bugs from connecting external monitors with lower pixel density to my high pixel density Surface Pro devices. Only thing that really "fixes" it is setting a custom scaling factor of 100% and reducing the Surface's resolution to make it still readable. (Then I end up with black bars along the edges, as the lower resolution options aren't the same 3:2 aspect ratio as the native resolution...)

This has been a many-years struggle and I wish Windows would get this right first. Never had the same kind of problems with macOS.

codeulike• 7 years ago

Wait, I do this all the time with my Surface Pro 3. It just kinda works, in Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. My settings are 'extend these displays', scaling 175% on the Surface and 100% on the regular monitor.

RDP is a bit trickier if you're connecting to an old-ish server but I found a way round that too.

com2kid3• 7 years ago

Do this daily, it should work fine.

Are you cloning the display? That'll require scaling of some type.

If you want to only use the external display that should work fine, if you "close" the Surface it should be smart enough to not go to sleep and instead to just route everything to the external screen.

If you are extending, then Windows 10 has supported monitors with different DPI scaling factors for awhile as well. The option isn't that apparent. Right click desktop, display settings, you can select a monitor and set the DPI scaling on that particular display.

If you are cloning the Surface's display to an external, then yeah, you'll have a hard time about it. High DPI + different aspect ratio.

tvanantwerp2• 7 years ago

It's extending while still using the Surface screen, and it does automatically get the DPI correct. Used to have issues with specific programs, some bits comically large and some comically small. That seems to have stopped, but the latest bug I've been dealing with involves a white bar along the top of one of the external monitors (always the left one, oddly) about an inch thick that renders that part of the screen unusual. Custom DPI of 100% for all monitors is the only thing that makes that stop. Seen it for two or three users out of ~35 so far.

I'll say that the scaling problems have overall improved and most of the time it works. But it still breaks randomly and often enough that I notice.

GordonS4• 7 years ago

Strangely enough I have no issues doing this with Windows 10, but always have issues with my MBP! Occasionally it even crashes when I plug in external monitors.

mc32• 7 years ago

One thing I’m looking forward to in regular laptops is handling of change in monitor hardware state when docking and undocking. It can take a while for the system to figure things out, other times it’s a hard reset... all that said, it’s handled better than mosx which has a frustrating relationship with multiple external displays.

jedberg• 7 years ago

it’s handled better than mosx which has a frustrating relationship with multiple external displays.

I have two external displays, one over thunderbolt and one HDMI, and the Mac seems to have no trouble putting my windows where they belong whether I'm on just the laptop screen, just one external monitor or both.

What I've found though is the trick seems to be to make sure you have all your monitors plugged in before you log in. I always make the monitor changes when my laptop is locked.

GordonS4• 7 years ago

This works well enough for me on Windows 10, but I have similar issues to you with MacOS

swiley2• 7 years ago

If you want speed just run Linux and use the xrandr command. If you use a "pager" program (google virtual desktops vs workspaces) your windows probably don't even have to move around.

jonknee• 7 years ago

Microsoft is using Android! Lauren Goode got a great quote from Satya on this topic:

When I asked Satya Nadella whether Microsoft ever thought about reviving a true Windows mobile OS, he told me: "The operating system is no longer the most important layer for us...What is most important for us is the app model and the experience."

https://twitter.com/LaurenGoode/status/1179421631506210822

Update: my apologies, this is for the other dual screen device announced today (lots of new products!). They are releasing an Android phone with a similar hinge setup.

nradov• 7 years ago

As long as Google owns the mobile OS, Microsoft will never be able to maintain any significant control over the app model or user experience.

tyingq• 7 years ago

Maybe a veiled hint at doing something like the Amazon Fire Phone, only more thoughtfully?

EpicBlackCrayon• 7 years ago

That's not true. Look at what Huawei, Samsung, and One Plus have done.

KingMachiavelli• 7 years ago

Clearly Microsoft disagrees. They are putting tremendous effort into using chromium for their new Edge browser so I would have to assume they would put even more resources into customizing Android to their liking. Perhaps on a technical level, chromium-Edge will 'feel' like any other chromium based browser and android-Windows will 'feel' like any other Android based OS BUT for normal & business users - there is a lot Microsoft could do to make Android fit into a 'Microsoft/Windows'ecosystem. If it's at least partially successful, I would expect them to start making their own UI frameworks/libraries for developers to really distance the platform.

com2kid3• 7 years ago

The app model, surely not.

The UX?

Ask Samsung. Use a Samsung phone and you are wrapped in their experience. Pairing BT headsets is different, the S-Pen is truly unique and rather well integrated. The camera is unique and for quite awhile was cutting edge and one of the reasons to buy a Samsung phone.

The custom Samsung UI started out pretty bad, but over time it got good. People are used to it, using other Android phones feels a bit off to them, and a fair number of their UX improvements have been since become part of Android itself.

wilsonthewhale• 7 years ago

That picture gave me a big Courier vibe[1], always wished Microsoft could have made that happen.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

dantle• 7 years ago

The parent story isn't about some version of Android. Windows 10 X is a real version of Windows, based on the NT Kernel.

evv• 7 years ago

The reporting around this new device is certainly confusing..

"This product brings together the absolute best of Microsoft, and we're partnering with Google to bring the absolute best of Android in one product," Microsoft Product Chief Panos Panay said. "This is industry pushing technology."

From https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-unveils-999-surface-pro-...

Edit: I'm realizing there are multiple new devices. The Surface Neo is a new two-screen laptop running Windows. The Surface Duo is a two-screen Android phone.

nightski• 7 years ago

Maybe, but android is not part of 10 X at all from what I can tell? The article says it builds off the core pieces of Windows 10. It even runs Win32 apps?

samstave• 7 years ago

Sparked a memory for me; one of my biggest career regrets...

I had an interview for head of IT at danger, but I had a really really bad flu at the time.

I performed poorly on an interview I would have normally nailed, but it was one of the worst sicknesses I have had, and I didn’t have the frame of mind to reschedule....

So I totally regret that. Had I rescheduled, I would have changed my life path.

Abishek_Muthian2• 7 years ago

The operating system is no longer the most important layer for us - Satya

That's obvious. But I would like Microsoft to release boot-loader unlock keys for those Windows Phone devices, so that android enthusiasts can build ROMs for some of those capable hardware.

zozbot234• 7 years ago

Old WP devices are comparatively easy to mod - bootloader unlock is not an issue at all. The issue with running a custom OS on those is hardware/driver support, as is usual for this class of devices.

losthobbies• 7 years ago

The courier!

kbumsik• 7 years ago

It reminds me how the first Surface Pro looked like.

It was incomplete and useless device so it didn't go well. However, Microsoft didn't give up. After three iterations Microsoft finally made Surface Pro 3, which was the first useful Windows tablet with a cleverly designed keyboard and a great 3:2 ratio screen. The surface line finally took off and third-parties began to make "surface-like" products since then.

Microsoft is not like Apple. They don't make perfect products at the beginning, but they eventually nailed it after some iterations (I know they still have software issues though.) So I will wait and see what Microsoft will make in the next generations.

Analemma_2• 7 years ago

There is a potential difference though: with the Surface, Microsoft only needed to iterate on the hardware, which it could do by itself. My concern with Windows 10X is that it requires buy-in from developers to reach its full potential, and that has been lacking. To be blunt, UWP attracted basically no developer attention (which is a shame, it was a pretty good development environment). Unless they figure out how to turn that situation around, the Surface Duo might be a fantastic Office machine but nothing else.

neogodless• 7 years ago

Minor correction:

The Duo is the Android phone.

The Windows X tablet is called the Neo.

tasogare• 7 years ago

UWP attracted basically no developer attention (which is a shame, it was a pretty good development environment).

This is not a shame, this is the logical consequence of all to lies told to the Windows Phone community, which could have bootstrapped UWP but was totally demotivated when UWP was released.

But the main reason is the stupid decision to make UWP available only on Windows 10, at a time where Win7 had the highest marketshare. Microsoft should focus on making WPF multi-platform if it wants developer to be excited again to develop native software on Windows.

7952• 7 years ago

A lot of users spend their entire life in Office and various MS online apps. This would be worth having just for PowerPoint alone. It would let you keep slides open while presenting and have other apps open privately.

djsumdog2• 7 years ago

Actually, it reminds me of that pre-iPad Microsoft project that they killed off to focus on Windows 8. It was almost production ready too; had dual screens and there was a neat video of how the stylus interacted with it. I can't remember what it was called though and can't seem to find it searching DDG/Google.

kyoji• 7 years ago

The Microsoft Courier! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier

johnchristopher3• 7 years ago

Cancelled Microsoft Courier might be what you have in mind. See:

https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+courrier+tablet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier

JadeNB• 7 years ago

Microsoft is not like Apple. They don't make perfect products at the beginning

For example, perfect butterfly keyboards.

0xFFFE• 7 years ago

3 months in and the touch bar stopped working, it just doesn't light up. It's a work laptop so it is going for a replacement, backing up my data as I type this.

Also, some keys double type :( Perfect my ass.

PS: I know you are being sarcastic

Kye2• 7 years ago

They perfectly emulate the fragility of real butterflies.

llampx• 7 years ago

The amount of bellyaching about the MacBook keyboard is the exception that proves the rule.

com2kid3• 7 years ago

Hockey Puck mouse.

Heck my Mac-mini overheats and throttles itself not by reducing the CPU clock but apparently by having a system process just take ownership of the CPU and NO-OP things until the system cools down, bringing everything including the UI down to a crawl.

An absolutely horrible user experience.

The famous display snow that happened for years when plugging external monitors into Macbooks.

lou1306• 7 years ago

They don't make perfect products at the beginning, but they eventually nailed it after some iterations

This is not limited to hardware: early versions of SQL Server were far from perfect, but they kept improving on it. Makes some kind of sense if you have deep pockets and your product targets a very lucrative market.

pcurve• 7 years ago

"After three iterations Microsoft finally made Surface Pro 3"

I think Microsoft does this a lot. They persist and usually succeeds. Most of the time.

klohto• 7 years ago

Microsoft is not like Apple. They don't make perfect products at the beginning

Oh man, try to remember how the first iPhone was. It was the most useless thing in the world. It didn’t have app store!

The lesson is to iterate, iterate and iterate

mrep• 7 years ago

Is that sarcasm, because I had the first iphone and being able to use a browser anywhere was the killer feature, and it was amazing.

enumjorge2• 7 years ago

I disagree that it was useless. The first iPhone had a small but very polished set of features.

tinus_hn2• 7 years ago

The first iPhone was fantastic compared to every other phone that existed when it was released. If it was useless, so was every other phone.

scarface7414• 7 years ago

Apple doesn’t make perfect products in the beginning either.

iPhone - no 3g, no GPS, no third party apps, couldn’t shoot video, and no flash for cameras. My feature phone had all of this at the time. Between 2G and AT&Ts network it was a hard pass for me. Not to mention the 4GB of memory. I did end up getting two iPod Touches before the iPhone 4.

iPad - it wasn’t apparent until the next year, but the original iPad was sorely crippled by having only 256MB of RAM compared to the iPhone 4 that came out three months later with 512MB of RAM. The iPhone ran iOS 4-7. The iPad could only run iOS 5.

Apple Watch - slow, no GPS and apps were terrible with the first version of WatchOS. They were only a little better with watchOS 2. The third generation were the first good ones.

ProfessorLayton• 7 years ago

Not sure I agree with the first two, as those products were so revolutionary, it's hard to ding them for some features they missed (Especially since they eventually got many of those features via software updates). Not saying they were perfect by any means, but it was a damn fine first attempt.

First gen Watch was trash and I completely regret that purchase, furthermore, I can't believe Apple even released it in that state. It was literally unusable for me, with some taps taking multiple seconds (!!!) to respond. It was unbearable.

JBiserkov3• 7 years ago

This! They also iterated quite fast:

Surface Pro 1 - February 2013

Surface Pro 2 - October 2013 (that's not a typo)

Surface Pro 3 - June 2014

zokier• 7 years ago

Considering that Windows has been supporting multiple displays for what, 20 years now, it feels bit odd to make that the headline feature

lucb1e• 7 years ago

Yeah I'm really wondering why it is news that Windows runs on a device that has 2 screens connected. Can anyone who upvoted explain what was interesting about this? Or if you didn't, at least why we need a new version of Windows to do the same as standard Windows already could?

naikrovek3• 7 years ago

It has dual monitor awareness built in and assumed, which vanilla Windows 10 does not.

For example, tapping a link on one screen opens the browser on the opposite screen, always.

That simply doesn't happen on vanilla Windows 10, as the OS isn't aware of the concept of multiple displays at that level. To most of Windows, you appear to simply have a single large display when you are using multiple displays. There are plenty of things with multiple monitor awareness, but it isn't inherent as it is with 10 X.

deckar01• 7 years ago

Windows multi-display functionality has regressed with packet based display protocols. Turning Display Port monitors off with their power button is a nightmare. All of your windows get squished down to so tiny size and moved over to one monitor. They won't fix it, because they consider it a power user use case that should be solved by leaving everything on or turning the entire computer off. There is an entire after market of hardware hacks built just to trick Windows into thinking the monitor is still connected.

berti• 7 years ago

And then when you bring a KVM switch into the mix... sometimes it works well, the rest of the time it does what you described, or just gives up and decides there are no monitors until you replug them.

CrackerNews• 7 years ago

Would Windows 10X fix these issues? Microsoft appears to be reserving it for dual display devices.

Twirrim• 7 years ago

Yet again Microsoft spins up another version of Windows with a narrow use case. They've done this so many times now it's getting almost laughable how little they seem to learn.

Windows 10 has multi-monitor support, good touch and pen support, etc. It's already in the OS. It doesn't need a special version to add support for them at all. If it's about the way the interaction with the screens occur, just make that a mode people can switch Windows 10 to.

mrlala2• 7 years ago

I think though this is, specifically for their form factor of a dual screen laptop? Knowing exactly the orientations and how the screens lineup?

Like.. I have 3 monitors, but their auto configurations for the dual screen laptop would make no sense on my PC I assume.

tibbydudeza• 7 years ago

A Surface "Duo" phone running Microsoft tailored Android.

ocdtrekkie• 7 years ago

Microsoft is showing true commitment to their new OS for dual-screen devices, by only putting it on one of their new dual-screen devices.

I think it's really weird they didn't talk even slightly how 10 X will fit into the Windows family down the road. I guess it's a hardware event, but everything Microsoft has been held back by the software lately, so that's really what I want to hear about.

Beltiras• 7 years ago

I think this is the Microsoft release on it [1]. I refuse to accept Oath cookies.

[1] https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2019/10/02/surface-reveals...

alexk7• 7 years ago

The whole concept of OS integration across devices is a complete failure for Microsoft. Calling this new thing a "new OS" sounds like a failure to fulfill what the Windows brand used to mean: support across a large range of devices. Isn't Windows already supporting multiple display? Maybe not in the "tablet" sub-OS... which is clearly not up to the standard set by the "desktop" sub-OS.

Anyway, the only thing that keeps Windows relevant even today is its classic Win32 API applications. Everything else they tried to do has always been half-baked. I'm not optimist for the future of the platform.

enumjorge2• 7 years ago

Where are you getting that someone is calling this a "new OS"? From the article:

The company stresses that this is not a new operating system but takes Windows 10 as you know it today and makes it more adaptable to other form factors.

cjarrett• 7 years ago

Definitely not the same OS as Desktop windows 10. It might run all the same apps, however.

shrthnd• 7 years ago

Now how about Windows 10 for my Raspberry Pi?

jodrellblank• 7 years ago

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/install-windows-10-on-r...

mensetmanusman• 7 years ago

Would this let them emulate the switch?

Skunkleton• 7 years ago

So Windows X X?

asenna8• 7 years ago

For people saying dual screen is a gimmick, have you not wanted to replicate multi-screen setup on your laptop (while traveling or when not on your desktop)? Power users have always wanted more screen real estate!

I've been eyeing the Asus Zenbook Pro Duo[1] ever since they've been announced (currently using a Macbook Pro 2015). I usually carry around an Asus portable second screen for my laptop in my backpack and this dual screen laptop trend is exactly what I wanted! I'm definitely upgrading to a dual screen option next.

Although I have no hope from Apple, I'm still waiting to see what the next MBP iteration would be. All they need to do is stretch that stupid touchbar enough to be a respectable second screen.

[1] https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ZenBook-Pro-Duo-UX581GV/

swiley2• 7 years ago

It might be useful if there was a decent mobile OS that ran on it and also had an overlapping window manager.

Honestly the OS is way more interesting than the hardware.

52-6F-62• 7 years ago

I'm a pretty dedicated mac user but that machine has me intrigued.

Still, I did laugh at some of the marketing: "Celestial Blue futuristic sense"

edit: But why did they have to include Alexa. Dammit.

GordonS4• 7 years ago

I've been scratching my head trying to think how this could be used; I guess as a folding monitor makes some sense - but I wonder how big that market would be?

georgeecollins• 7 years ago

I don't understand how anyone could think dual screen is a gimmick that had a DS. There were a lot of games that put those two screens to good use. I am serious.

cameronbrown• 7 years ago

I know it's not the same thing, but damn the Nintendo DS sold me on multi screen games. Wish there were more.

thedaemon• 7 years ago

It could have done the same with 1 larger screen. But the DS is a foldable device. It's not a gimmick, it's part of the operation of the device. I use dual screens at work, because they are smaller lower resolution screens. At home I have 1 huge high resolution screen. Not having a physical separation is amazing.

limomium2• 7 years ago

Consider this: To gain any information from a screen, you must actually look at it. You can only look at one screen at a time. The entire functionality of a second screen can be replaced with a single button: While that button is pressed, the screen shows whatever else it needs to show.

It is true that pressing a button is ever so slightly slower than moving your eyes. But considering all the benefits from saving a whole screen (double battery life! reduced manufacturing cost! smaller device size!), dual screenage is really just a gimmick.

All you need is a button dedicated to "screen" switching in software.

Narishma2• 7 years ago

I always thought it was a gimmick on the DS too. I don't remember any game that did anything interesting with it that couldn't also be done on a single larger screen.

ken2• 7 years ago

Although I have no hope from Apple, I'm still waiting to see what the next MBP iteration would be.

You can use an iPad as a second screen for a MacBook. It still gives you a traditional keyboard and single screen when you don’t need that, and you can use just the second screen as a computing device on its own. I haven’t used this setup but I assume Apple would say this is the best of both worlds already. Is there something that you think is missing from their solution?

reaperducer• 7 years ago

I've done this with third-party solutions, and it's fantastic, especially when traveling.

I'm really looking forward to having it as part of the next OS update.

asenna8• 7 years ago

One of the reasons I'm excited about a built-in second screen is, I don't need to carry another extra device. I mean even if I need to use an ipad, I'm currently slouching on my couch. I need a flat surface to keep that ipad/screen at the right angle. Sounds petty but it's just very convenient to have more real estate on your lap (or on a flight or cafe table).

Also, I'm not too into the Apple ecosystem and don't own an ipad so would have to get an ipad just to use it as a second screen. I think it could work for some but an integrate dual screen solution is exciting.

mandeepj2• 7 years ago

https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ZenBook-Pro-Duo-UX581GV/

Apple touch bar, done right :-)

asenna8• 7 years ago

Yes! Which is why I'm still wishing someone at Apple wakes up from their busy schedule of making the "Pro" laptops thinner and instead add in some actual pro stuff!

dmitrygr• 7 years ago

that looked great, until i saw the reviews like "2 hours of battery life" and "This laptop cannot be charged via USB-C. It requires the included 230W power adapter."

this is not a laptop. this is a portable desktop

dmix2• 7 years ago

I'm happy to see that Asus managed to find a way to keep the Escape key even while taking up way more space than Touchbar. Apple has no excuse.

Still I'd personally rather use efficient tiling software + tabbing between spaces than have to look down at distractions. I'm amazed no major OS developer has tried to deliver this as an advanced mode. It's the type of thing that would benefit from direct OS integration.

Most of the MacOS tiling software have occasional awkward moments with Spaces and fullscreen mode.

augustl2• 7 years ago

I've never been more happy with a desktop environment than when I used i3.

The sloppy window management in macOS combined with the scarce selection of laptops (of which none are really good in my opinion) has led me to try win10 as my development environment.

i3-like on Windows would have been great!

comfrey• 7 years ago

Courage over Escapism always /s

AmericanChopper• 7 years ago

I’ve always found workspaces on Mac to be great, especially with swipe gestures. It’s the only laptop I’ve ever been able to sit in the couch and write reports on, which I usually need two monitors for (one for the report, the other for whatever I’m reviewing for the report).

OJFord• 7 years ago

Have you used yabai (on macOS)? It's about as close as I think we can possibly hope for.

I still pine for i3 though.

sundvor2• 7 years ago

That's an amazing looking laptop.

Especially when WSL2 is out ~next year, that extra screen above the keyboard would be amazing for displaying eg Terminal - with VSCode or Studio in the main screen. So many options.

The top model is not afraid of its price point, sadly, but it sure is a Hero configuration.

scarface7414• 7 years ago

There have been USB powered portable monitors for years that would let you get a dual screen experience. With iOS 13, there is built in support for using an iPad ($329 10.2inch screen) as a second display.

mav3rick4• 7 years ago

Really ? So lugging a USB monitor vs having on a device. Which one would most users prefer ? Don't say "oh the external can be of higher res". Portability is a big win.

asenna8• 7 years ago

That's exactly what I've been doing. But I value portability - I'm a (hobby) photographer as well and my backpack includes 2 lenses and a Nikon D850 (combined > 10lbs!) + my MBP 2015 + My usb-C powered second screen.

I travel a lot with this full backpack and if I can reduce that second screen, I'd jump on that!

rifung• 7 years ago

For people saying dual screen is a gimmick, have you not wanted to replicate multi-screen setup on your laptop (while traveling or when not on your desktop)? Power users have always wanted more screen real estate!

Can't say I have multi-screen.. but I have wanted more screen real estate.

One thing I think could happen is to make laptops that let you fold the screen out, thus letting you have a larger screen while still maintaining a small physical footprint.

shriek• 7 years ago

Honestly, I'm actually looking forward to VR headset just for this. If I can get rid of my multi-monitors with just 1 headset then not only will it be more portable but also give me more real estate.

Of course, the compromise in picture quality is still a deal breaker for me.

mixmastamyk• 7 years ago

Hmm, at that point might as well just remove the keyboard and use an external when you really need one.

chrischen• 7 years ago

IPad OS 13 and the next MacOS support Sidecar, which lets you use an iPad as a second monitor.

stephenr2• 7 years ago

Comparing a screen in front of the keyboard at a weird angle to the main screen to “multiple monitors” when “on the road” is like suggesting McDonald’s to a home cooked meal “when on the road”.

asenna8• 7 years ago

The comparison is between a laptop having just the one screen VS a laptop with another screen squeezed in irrespective of the angle.

As long as I can have my terminal down there or my Lightroom film strip or a Youtube podcast open, that's a lot better experience than just one screen. Yes, it's a compromise from an actual desktop environment, but still a huge step up from not having any extra screen.

buboard4• 7 years ago

I haven’t used multiple screens in years. They tire me and dizzy. Ultrawides ftw

ct0• 7 years ago

once you have an ultrawide setup, dual screens seem inferior

Stevvo• 7 years ago

With the Zenbook, if the increased productivity let's you get more work done, it might pay for itself quickly.

agumonkey2• 7 years ago

The only issue I have with folder / dual screen, is that it's not .. ultra ergonomic on the go. Unless you're really not moving or near stationary.

zx2c4• 7 years ago

have you not wanted to replicate multi-screen setup on your laptop (while traveling or when not on your desktop)? P

Remember the Thinkpad W701ds? With its retractable second screen, this was a thing of beauty:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fill,f_a...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/msJwcKy4PQQ/maxresdefault.jpg

https://static.bhphoto.com/images/images1000x1000/1276679060...

https://live.staticflickr.com/1707/24571574422_aeeb09181f_b....

billziss3• 7 years ago

Just wrote something similar. I agree.

asenna8• 7 years ago

Genuinely curious, why did these not work? Extremely poor battery life / portability?

skrebbel• 7 years ago

Wow, that looks extremely cool. I wonder if it's a problem that there's no natural palm rest while typing though.

asenna8• 7 years ago

They have a palm rest that comes with the laptop as seen in some of the pictures: https://au.pcmag.com/laptops/62235/hands-on-the-twin-screen-...

Not ideal, but it's something.

NikolaNovak2• 7 years ago

- You'll take my dual and triple monitor setup from my home office and work-office over my cold dead body

- But... on the go? Yes, I want the biggest possible screen, but also the best possible keyboard+trackpoint. So the new Surface Neo feels less than ideal.

I am open to possibility that a breakthrough in UI will make this attractive, and/or that brand-new, unimagined-today use-cases will come up; but today, I don't see how / for what I'd use dual screen with soft keyboard:

1. When I'm consuming media, portability is key AND I can only really focus on one screen (book, show) at the time 2. When I'm creating, I need a fast, comfortable, efficient method of inputing data. Today it's keyboard+trackpoint (when on the go), and I cannot imagine a useful way to type on dual screen that doesn't also make one of the screens pointless. So for me, today, transformable tablets (with hardware detachable keyboard, the way Asus Transformer used to be) is the sweet spot.

But I'm eager to be proven wrong over the course of time. I fear this may be a Catch-22 device, if insufficient software/use-cases are available by the time hardware comes out, and it just fizzles out...

Conversely, what Asus is doing where I can have my cake and eat it too (second screen AND hardware keyboard, though it doesn't look great and no trackpoint), feels like the way to go / immediately useful / good transition device.

devicetray0• 7 years ago

I worked in tech consulting, and my colleague actually had a very thin ~23" (IIRC) portable LCD screen he somehow carried with him on planes. It had a foldable kickstand so he could set up a dual-screen on any hotseat desk in seconds. It was brilliant, and I briefly considered the same, but my backpack was already heavy enough. I've heard of folks doing this with the MBP + a iPad Pro, but idk how well that works.

OkGoDoIt• 7 years ago

I use Duet for my iPad to get a 2nd screen for my laptop. It’s not perfect but it works. If I used a Mac I’d be excited to try the new “sidecar” second screen function Apple just unveiled. But of course it doesn’t work with a PC.

Anyway this setup gives me the best of both worlds. I get a nice trackpoint and keyboard, one really good display at all times, and a second display when I really need it. My iPad is thin and lightweight enough that I always have it with me in my laptop bag anyway.

Only downside is Duet Display can be a bit resource intensive.

powersnail• 7 years ago

Always wanted to have a relatively light-weight dual screen laptop. Asus Zenbook Pro Duo is too over-powered with that GPU and large body. I want something light and preferably fanless.

However, while the Surface is certainly light-weight enough, it is too small when you type on the keyboard. Being just barely larger than a large phone is insufficient, in terms of both screen space and keyboard space. I can't type on so small a keyboard without giving myself wrist pain. It just doesn't seem like a serious laptop replacement.

puranjay2• 7 years ago

Multiple windows is crucial for my work, but every time I've used them, I've also had access to a standard sized keyboard.

I can't imagine doing a lot of things without a keyboard that require multiple screens

knoke• 7 years ago

I started seeing the TB as a missed opportunity for a second screen but with the Golden Chaos touchbar replacement (a preset for Better Touch Tools) I see it as my computer's Apple Watch

The touchbar is totally under-utilized by Apple. Golden Chaos demonstrates that it just needs a new and appropriate sign language and immediately gets much more useful.

With Golden Chaos I use my touchbar to see my current email count, whats playing plus media controls, calender, time, weather, battery – and if I press a modifier key a whole universe of shortcuts opens up. My only addition - and the most heavily used function - is a button to push my current window to the other monitor. So my touchbar effectively is my tool to utilize my second screen more easily.

Abishek_Muthian2• 7 years ago

I'm liking the direction laptop makers are taking by differentiating at hardware level especially with displays, Asus has multiple dual display laptops and now Microsoft's surface lineup. With WindowsX partnership, this is going to kick off a slew of multi-display computing devices.

But as a non-windows user, I'm wondering what these hardware specific Windows changes are going to do to the Linux ecosystem. I'm sure, display output to these multiple displays would likely work OOB; but the availability of an app ecosystem which can make use of these dual displays offering unique productivity advantages would be questionable.

Aardappel• 7 years ago

Want to "innovate" in laptop screens? How about giving us our 4:3 laptop screens back? Or (drool) 5:4 ?

Most content (web pages, documents, code) is longer than it is wide, so any more square ratio is going to be an improvement over these silly "movie" ratio 16:9 screens. MS's 3:2 ratio screens are an improvement, but.. we can do more!

Hell, I'd <insert "shut up and take my money" meme> LOVE a 1:1 screen on a laptop! Imagine a 15" diagonal 1:1 screen, which would be as wide as a current 12" laptop or so, just a ton taller. Anything with text on that would be glorious.

buboard4• 7 years ago

Phones are bigger offenders. Thanks for all the 1:9 tall videos , apple n samsung

Pxtl• 7 years ago

Dual-screen laptop where the second screen is above the first? Then it would be tall, but you'd have the screen split in the middle. Maybe if Samsung ever gets their foldable screen mayhem hammered out properly that could work.

mhermher• 7 years ago

The screens get wobbly at that point. I think 3:2 is pretty good.

flukus2• 7 years ago

Most content (web pages, documents, code) is longer than it is wide, so any more square ratio is going to be an improvement over these silly "movie" ratio 16:9 screens. MS's 3:2 ratio screens are an improvement, but.. we can do more!

If you're reading content that's longer than it is wide then why are you telling the browser to be full screen? Practically every desktop environment makes it easy to snap windows to half the screen, even better with a tiling WM.

Personally the only "innovation" I want is a return of the 10" form factor, they also happen to have the aspect ratios you're after.

Iv• 7 years ago

And when will it support dual boot?

ohbleek• 7 years ago

If you think there isn’t a market for a dual screen device, step into a med school or any professional school. Half of my classmates carry around two devices specifically to have a second screen for referencing videos, notes, articles, etc... personally I can’t wait to get the neo. I have a 15” surface book 2 and it’s served me well but I would love a second screen with the same versatility of my sb2.

lone_haxx0r• 7 years ago

Ok, now make it not shut itself down randomly for updates.

knd775• 7 years ago

This doesn't happen. Tired meme.

cryptozeus• 7 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmaioTs0NH8 @ 1:10:00 mark for tablet. I did not see the keyboard coming ! Great job microsoft

summerlight• 7 years ago

Some HN users are denying, but the recent trends definitely shows that most users values screen real estate a lot. The only problem here is that screen size and device form factor has been physically coupled to each other so you cannot have a useful phone with 13 inches screen. While MS' solution is not the most elegant one, but now technological advances on flexible screen makes it possible to de-couple them.

I'm pretty sure that MS is looking forward to using this technology, but also wants to get into the market as soon as possible. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of new form factors MS will bring into the market in coming years; they have been pretty innovative in this area.

bschne2• 7 years ago

This just reminded me that SideShow was a thing in Vista times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow

pedrocx486• 7 years ago

English link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow

bschne2• 7 years ago

Thx, edited.

smallbigfish• 7 years ago

I like those pictures. They only show the two hands that are holding the device. The third hand touching the screen is missing.

buboard4• 7 years ago

I believe u re supposed to use your nose

belltaco3• 7 years ago

Emacs users are ready.

agumonkey2• 7 years ago

remember the 2000s grand demo that never realized ? MS folio ?

baybal2• 7 years ago

I'm very surprised that Intel gave away Lakefield to Microsoft just for that.

Few Intel insiders I knew were talking about Lakefield as almost like a "saviour" product for Intel waning consumer electronics marker appeal.

al2o3cr• 7 years ago

Was there any specific mention of the device's thickness? The photos look like each side is about the same as a typical tablet, which would make this thing a pretty chonky boi when folded...

naikrovek3• 7 years ago

5.6mm per side, I think? Might have been 5.4mm.

Each side can be an inch thick, I don't care, as long as the battery lasts a while.

qubex• 7 years ago

I can’t help but think how prescient Micheal Okuda was when he designed the flat, touchscreen-only LCARS (Library Computer Access and Retrieval System) interfaces for Star Trek: THe Next Generation that first aired way back in 1987, rationalising that he was looking to create a visual style which implied a simplified, abstract system of controlling vastly complex processes in a user-friendly, high-level manner. 32 years on flat GUIs and touchscreen-everywhere interfaces are closing in on his vision. Truly remarkable.

tinus_hn2• 7 years ago

The main advantage for Star Trek though was that this kind of device is really easy on the prop department. It’s just a plane of smoke glass with lights shining through a cutout, easy to add the button of the week.

o_p• 7 years ago

Nice, a phone with half battery duration! Honestly, whats the use for this?

hootbootscoot2• 7 years ago

Where's the "start" menu? Find all the product managers since XP SP3 and send them to work in the salt mines for an eternity or 3...

billziss3• 7 years ago

I would much prefer it if manufacturers created a multi-screen setup with screens next to each other. I can imagine some form of folding or attachment mechanism that converts a single screen laptop to dual or triple screen. Since going "laptop only" many years ago the thing I miss the most is the multi-monitor setup that I used to have and would love it if I was eventually able to recreate this with my laptop.

The idea of a second screen above the keyboard does not appeal to me. I have a Macbook Pro with a touch bar and in general I dislike it (even though I have written a custom dock for it, which allows me to reclaim some main screen real estate from the macOS Dock). I understand that this new MSFT screen is bigger and potentially more useful, but the problem of having to look down on the second screen above the keyboard would still be there.

(I am aware of macOS Sidecar.)

datagram• 7 years ago

I can imagine some form of folding of attachment mechanism that converts a single screen laptop to dual or triple screen.

Razer is working on exactly this: https://www.razer.com/project-valerie

mehrdadn• 7 years ago

That looks insanely fragile?

billziss3• 7 years ago

Thank you. This looks exactly like what I had in mind.

EDIT: Another alternative would be to be able to slide the main screen halfway to the side thus allowing a second screen next to it for a dual screen setup.

belltaco3• 7 years ago

Almost 3 years gone and no updates? Is it a dead product?

hootbootscoot2• 7 years ago

Dual-mouse dual pointer too?

Steko• 7 years ago

I'd be excited if the small indy company behind Windows 10 could figure out how to stop putting all my windows on one monitor every time the machine sleeps.

ToFab1233• 7 years ago

The Duo is the Android phone.

I am one of these weirdos that has been waiting patiently for many years for Microsoft to release a new phone and would have been first in line to buy one, until I received this news.

There is just no way I am going to buy a Android that broadcast everything back to Google. Microsoft have completely missed the ball on this one. At least towards the Microsoft users that are not comfortable with sending everything towards Google.

Windows 10X on the other hand sounds like an amazing OS. I would have loved to see that on the phone (with android app support to get the app ecosystem going), instead we get a two screen device with a huge bezel in the middle so the screens cannot appear as 1 screen.

I am sorry Microsoft, but my money stays in my pocket.

PostOnce2• 7 years ago

You're happier broadcasting everything back to Microsoft? What's the difference?

ToFab1233• 7 years ago

Yes, I have no issues with transmitting my digital life back to Microsoft. I have done so since I got my first Hotmail count 20+ ago. Since then, my digital life has in one form or another been connected with Microsoft Services.

I have never felt Microsoft has abused this trust I have given them. I have never thought that they have used my information for purposes I am not comfortable with.

I have this thing against advertisement agencies. I don't trust them. I felt the same even before Google was there even before my life became digital. It is not something new that I try to limit the information I give to advertisement agencies.

Edit: spelling

fidz• 7 years ago

Ah, finally we can have 10x developer by developing for Windows 10 X

danlan• 7 years ago

This gives me hope that the 10GUI concept[1] might finally become a reality

[1] http://10gui.com/video/

jdlyga• 7 years ago

I'd love to have a dual screen tablet like that. One of the reasons I like reading on an iPad is because you can tilt it horizontally and have two screens of paper.

Microsoft introduces Windows 10 X for dual-screen devices

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