Apple resumes selling iPhone SE at lower $249 price on its clearance store

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MP7X2LL/A/iphone-se-128gb-space-gray-unlocked

by whitepoplar • 8 years ago

331 325 8 years ago

apple.com

tomcam• 8 years ago

Thanks. Snatched up one of those bad boys up immediately.

hkmurakami• 8 years ago

Wish this came before I refreshed to one of their newest models. The iPhone 5 form factor is still my favorite.

porphyrogene2• 8 years ago

I bought a brand new SE a few months ago for $180. It was from a third party but Apple verified the serial as original and unused. It wasn't availability or pricing that kept them from anyone who wanted one, it was the lack of name-brand-new-thing validation.

w-ll• 8 years ago

Mind sharing were you ordered it from?

dklsafhjskljfl6• 8 years ago

The upcoming sony xz4 compact may be the only small phone with premium components, and it's extremely frustrating. It's not even /that/ small.

You can find small phones but they have terrible cameras, sub HD resolutions, and bargain basement SOCs.

Is the demand for a premium (or even mid range) small phone really that low?

twblalock4• 8 years ago

Yes, the demand really is that low. People who want a smaller phone in 2019 are a very small yet very vocal minority.

If there was a large untapped market for smaller phones, then the limited number of small phones on the market would be selling a lot better than they actually are. Somebody would notice and start making more of them.

Like phones with physical keyboards, phones with small screens have become a niche product and they will probably disappear in the next few years.

spiritcat• 8 years ago

how about a foldable small phone?

roenxi• 8 years ago

You might be right, but as far as I can see the SE is half the price of the next cheapest iPhone, the 7.

There is going to be a market for people who want a phone that is not $500 American dollars, and it is wise of Apple to cater too it.

kbrackbill• 8 years ago

Do you have any insight as to why?

I'm part of that minority and small phones seem better in so many ways. My hands are relatively big I think, but even with "small" phones now I can barely use them with one hand. The smaller screen uses less battery. Larger phones don't fit in pockets very well and result in a spot that wears through on my jeans where the corner of the phone pokes out from my pocket.

I'm really struggling to think of advantages to larger phones. I guess if you always carry around a purse/bag then the size doesn't matter as much, and if you had smaller hands then maybe one-handed use is just impossible regardless of the size. But what's the use case? It's not like a real computer where a larger screen means you can multitask better, since you can barely multitask anyway.

izacus• 8 years ago

Yes, the demand really is that low. People who want a smaller phone in 2019 are a very small yet very vocal minority.

What are you basing that on?

linuxftw3• 8 years ago

Like phones with physical keyboards

I disagree with this point. I think other manufactures simply realized it's cheaper to not include a keyboard, and since no one else is anyway, easy enough to get away with it.

delhanty2• 8 years ago

People who want a smaller phone in 2019 are a very small yet very vocal minority.

Really?

Here in Japan, there are a lot of ladies with small hands, not particularly vocal on HN, and they seem to find small phones more comfortable to hold.

dzhiurgis2• 8 years ago

Yes, the demand really is that low.

As a person with bigger hands I always wonder is the demand for larger mice is really that low?

thedays2• 8 years ago

Yes, the demand really is that low.

Do you have any evidence for that?

There are virtually no, modern, reasonably-specced and reasonably priced phones with smaller screens available currently, so it's no wonder they're not selling.

In the Android world, there's only a couple of low-end Nokia phones (Nokia 1 - 4.5" screen and Nokia 3 - 5.2" screen), low-end Samsungs like the Galaxy J3 and the high-end and expensive Sony XZ2 Compact available but these phones aren't available for sale in many shops or on many contracts. If the market doesn't produce modern smaller phones, then they can't be sold, so arguing that "the demand really is that low" is currently a circular argument.

I suspect that part of the reason why the resale value of older iPhones like the 6 and 6s are high is that a reasonable percentage of people, esp. women, want smaller phones like these iPhones which are still reasonably fast and quite usable. My girlfriend hates using large phones as she finds them too big to hold in one hand easily, and has kept using an old Android because of its 4.5" screen.

I'm a tall person - well over 6 foot - with largish hands and even I find it difficult to comfortably use a phone wider than 70mm. I also find the current trend of producing 18:9 ratio phones completely baffling, as it makes reaching the top of the screen impossible with one hand in situations like traveling on trains or buses. Widescreen videos are filmed in 16:9 ratio, so it would make much more sense to go back to 16:9 ratio phone screens.

Theodores• 8 years ago

I think you are confusing people that want a small phone with people that want a premium small phone.

If you go with the small phone concept then your life might not revolve around your 'hand rectangle'. You also might have bought your phone ages ago and be in no hurry to upgrade.

A lot of the older folk are okay with the relatively basic phones they bought five years ago. So long as the camera is good enough for messages to close family members and the phone works for voice calls then there is no problem. These phones did have smaller screens and, for this demographic, there is no perceived point in upgrading to the expensive, fragile giant hand rectangle. Consequently they are not a vocal crowd. All slowness is them fumbling around or connection speed, the latest and greatest CPU is not important and the screen is adequate for their eyesight.

I run a basic small screen phone myself and I am toying with spending the £3.29 to get the cracked screen replaced. I could get a better phone but I would be looking at something equally small and underpowered as what I currently own, something that wouldn't even be considered a phone by most people here. 4.5" screen with plastic back and replaceable battery, with SD card slot. It will cost a tenth of the price of a premium hand-rectangle and I will probably own it for much longer than how long a premium phone is owned for.

So yes there is 'low demand' but lots of it. This demand is met by products that don't even appear on the radar of the HN crowd as 'viable'.

drb914• 8 years ago

How on earth do people measure demand if the market doesn’t supply?

ianai4• 8 years ago

Apple sold some of their best numbers when they released the SE.

huebnerob2• 8 years ago

Small phone equals small battery, and when you have a reduced power budget there's some things you just can't do. Small phone also obviously equals small hardware components. To the extent that components occupy physical space on a logic board, there's going to need to be a trade-off there.

People say they 'just' want a 4" modern phone, but they define it as a phone with multiple cameras, high storage capacity, and fast processors, etc. etc.. It's a nontrivial engineering challenge to get everything into a smaller package, and this at a time where the market at large has picked bigger phones as the winner.

Also, don't forget that people generally expect something that's smaller to be cheaper. Reality is, it might actually cost more money to deliver a smaller product, and at that point you're swimming against people's assumptions, not a great place to be.

So, you sit down to design a small modern phone and BAM it's just nothing but obstacles in every direction. It doesn't surprise me that the conclusion manufacturers are making is that the only winning move is not to play.

I'm not saying it's the _right_ decision necessarily, maybe someone will make an excellent small phone in the near future and the whole world will flock to it. But nothing has pushed the industry in that direction yet.

bscphil• 8 years ago

People say they 'just' want a 4" modern phone, but they define it as a phone with multiple cameras, high storage capacity, and fast processors, etc. etc.. It's a nontrivial engineering challenge to get everything into a smaller package, and this at a time where the market at large has picked bigger phones as the winner.

I don't know. My Nexus 4 was fine with respect to all of these things when it came out. Not top of the line power, of course, but not shabby either. Surely our ability to get faster processors into the same package has significantly increased since then. If I could get the exact form factor of a Nexus 4 with any hardware improvements available since it came out over 6 years ago, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat.

Geee2• 8 years ago

It can be made thicker.

coryfklein• 8 years ago

The iPhone SE is one giant counter example to everything you just said.

daurnimator2• 8 years ago

I heard the XZ4 compact was cancelled. https://www.androidpit.com/sony-cancels-xperia-compacts

Youden• 8 years ago

That seems like typical media hysteria to get views. Per a much more reasonable article (https://www.xda-developers.com/sony-xperia-xz4-compact-cance...), the entirety of available evidence is this statement given during an interview:

"We stuck with Compact for a very long time, because of the ease of use. There’s always room for different sizes, but people want a lot more surface area for their content now."

That doesn't sound like a definite statement to me. A more appropriate headline would be "Future of Sony Compact series in question" or something along those lines. That just wouldn't sound as exciting though.

xtrimsky1234• 8 years ago

I don't think small phone demand is low.

I think it's just harder to make a small phone very good and premium, and keep the price low.

Concerning the Sony, I personally got the Sony X3 Compact, I was quite disappointed with the Camera. All the Sony smartphones boast great cameras, but when you use it, the UX is bad. Shutter speed is slow, interface is bad. Also like you said, it's not that small. The Google Pixel 3 is only 0.07 inch wider, I think it's a much better choice (camera much better, stock android etc...)

retrac98• 8 years ago

Needs a spec bump.

saagarjha3• 8 years ago

…there are four other iPhones with better specs that you can buy.

srgpqt• 8 years ago

For many, those four are one notch too large.

JBReefer• 8 years ago

Why does everyone love this phone so much? Clue me in?

baxtr• 8 years ago

I believe it’s the size. I don’t get it, but many of friends prefer smaller phones.

dklsafhjskljfl6• 8 years ago

Fits neater in a pocket. Great for basic communication and tasks such as maps. Not the center of your life.

adzm• 8 years ago

Some people have small hands and/or short fingers. If you don't, it's hard to sympathize. Imagine trying to use a nine inch tablet with one hand.

tass2• 8 years ago

I prefer using other devices for videos/gaming/etc.

For something to listen to music, order a car, view maps, communicate or browse a web page it’s really perfect. Fits in a pocket and can be used with one hand.

blueboo• 8 years ago

They prefer a large format phone. (Compared to the iPhone 3G)

ninth_ant• 8 years ago

It comfortably fits in one hand, has a headphone jack, with adequate battery life and performance and camera.

SamReidHughes• 8 years ago

Personally, I want to deliberately make it difficult to spend my life looking at my phone, but still have a tool to use to look at maps, navigate, etc.

gkop• 8 years ago

The comfortable one-handed operation is my top reason, I'm a pretty active person and a phone that I can comfortably use with one hand (and also easily stow in and remove from the front pockets on my jeans) is much more useful to me than a phone that I cannot. I also enjoy the headphone jack which allows me to use any pair of conventional headphones, without requiring an adapter. Finally, the square edges (in contrast to rounded) make the phone a great bottle opener.

yrf• 8 years ago

Personally, its price. I would never buy an Android and I don't want to pay full price to own an iPhone. It sucks that you've got to be wealthy to have privacy and security. The small screen blows, though. (That's not to say I like big screens, but 4.7" would be so much better...)

mtd• 8 years ago

If you need a phone but can't go without a smartphone the SE is excellent: small; decent camera; good battery life; runs the latest iOS.

tomc1985• 8 years ago

I can reach most of the screen with just one thumb. It isn't gigantic

headphones• 8 years ago

The jack. Also the iPhone 6 was bigger and the rounded edges and corners introduced a bend/crack hazard, so in a back pocket, sitting down, there was enough leverage across the larger size to introduce force that bends it in the middle, cracking the screen.

So, the iPhone 5 appeals to people who want a small, durable, fully featured smart phone, with a normal headphone jack. The iPhone 6 and up all have bigger screens, but 6 is the last version with a headphone jack, and it is definitely less computationally powerful and measurably slower than everything after it.

inevitable2• 8 years ago

It has a headphone jack, is usable with one hand, and fits in girl pockets.

Jtsummers2• 8 years ago

I liked the size. The only thing I want is for them to extend the display to be close to or totally without bezel. I’ll probably pick this up to be my international travel/backup phone (now that Google Fi officially supports iOS).

The specs are sadly dated but I’m still running an iPhone 7 and the SE isn’t that far behind hardware-wise. For my use cases (some productivity software, maps, music, and chat) I have zero need for newer hardware any time soon. I have a full fledged computer if I really need something fast. And the 128GB option is only $50 more which isn’t bad.

Also, I like the audio jack. I do miss that on my 7 (and, consequently, newer devices).

Finally, there may be size wise comparable android phones but I’m not in that ecosystem. I’ve tried (using a couple Nexus devices for a year each in the past). There are too many things I like better in iOS or apps that didn’t have a direct port and whose equivalent wasn’t really equal.

johnvega• 8 years ago

Size. Great for one-hand operations. Easily fits on pockets or anywhere. Apple Pay & Touch ID. A9 chip. Relatively disposable. Got it for $99 at Walmart, 32 GB version. Screen size is not as important for me.

Been very happy with it for about 2 years.

miguelrochefort• 8 years ago

What do you mean $99 at Walmart?

jdietrich2• 8 years ago

The iPhone SE was the last stand of a dead philosophy - the one-handed phone.

To Steve Jobs, it was absolutely essential that all of the core functions of the iPhone could be performed with one hand. That requirement dictated large parts of the iPhone's design and the UX principles of iOS. One-handed operation formed a key part of the marketing of the iPhone 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99m7lebirE

The one-handed phone represents the phone as a means to an end rather than an end itself. You make a quick call to your partner while holding the baby, you check your shopping list while pushing a grocery cart, you send a text while holding a beer. The one-handed phone does a job, then gets out of your way. It's never the total focus of your attention.

Bigger phones are obviously better for intensive use. If you sit an iPhone SE and an iPhone X side-by-side, the iPhone 5 seems comically tiny. It's lousy for web browsing, it's lousy for reading e-books, it's lousy for watching movies. It seems like a relic from a different age. That's because it is - it's a relic from an age when a smartphone was a smart phone, rather than a pocket computer. Rightly or wrongly, there's no turning back from here.

mjevans• 8 years ago

I do like having a /slightly/ larger screen for those tasks. Without going to a full tablet or laptop I feel that something vaguely the size of a Pixel 1 is perfect for viewing. However I'd still like an input mode where I can use functionality from either edge with one thumb. For me a mobile is mostly a media /consumption/ device and also a method of making a quick voice call or dictating (speech to text) a reply that can't wait until I get to a real terminal.

The next logical steps up for screen-size feel like 8 inches for a small tablet and about 12-13 for a full tablet or small laptop, and are both too big for mobiles; I feel like having an input mode that allows one-handed use would serve most of the market that does want a smaller device. The hold outs would prefer the smaller device for a combination of fit inside of other things and weight.

chongli• 8 years ago

I wouldn't call it a dead philosophy, just a marginalized one. There are still plenty of people around who treat their phone as a means to an end. Frankly, the new philosophy of hardware makers trying to get phones to take over people's lives is a morally bankrupt one.

I'm reminded of Star Trek and the way technology is depicted on the show. Most episodes are about people (human or alien) and their relationships to one another. Technology is only a means to an end on Star Trek.

One episode stands out, however: The Game [1]. In this episode, nearly the entire Enterprise comes under the thrall of an addictive video game. The ship would've been lost if not for the efforts of an intrepid pair of youngsters. It's an interesting inversion of the usual trope that the older generation is the one warning against the dangers of a new form of entertainment.

But I digress. I brought up Star Trek because I think the show makes a very important point: humans matter, technology is just a tool. When technology starts to matter too much, humans suffer.

[1] http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Game_(episode)

barbs3• 8 years ago

I recently bought an iPhone SE and you've articulated why I bought it far better than I could. Well done!

I know a simple upvote would suffice but just wanted to tell you that, on my iPhone SE, of course :)

intopieces2• 8 years ago

I can use the iPhone X with one hand (and do, most often, even when I have the other hand free) and I have pretty small hands, so I'm not sure why it's considered a phone in the "post-one-hand" era.

midnightclubbed2• 8 years ago

I can carry it around in my pocket during the day, it fits in my shorts pocket when I run, does everything I want from a phone and doesn't feel 'cheap'.

Even with an otter-box it still fits in a pocket and can take a beating.

Tazmanian• 8 years ago

Own 5ea. May buy more. The only thing holding me back was the band 12 capability but it appears that's now included and 128GB is a nice bit of storage.

ddebernardy• 8 years ago

Because the form factor is just about perfect. Large enough that there's plenty of screen space, and small enough that you can comfortably use it with one hand.

fgandiya• 8 years ago

At the time I got it, I wanted to move to iOS. I couldn't afford the flagship 6S (even with monthly payments) and I heard rumors that they were going to make a 5s with 6S internals. It was still expensive to me at the time (at $500 for 64GB) and I was pissed when a 128GB model came for $400, but I'm very happy with it.

Having used it now for 3 years, I've really enjoyed it. It's small, sure, but it works so well in one hand. It's also incredibly powerful. It's amazing just how many high end apps you can run without issue.

Right now, I'm not sure what I'll do next. I got annoyed with the iPhone X's direction and anticipated that I'd keep it until the battery dies at which point I'd replace battery and keep it until either the updates stop or the atoms give up. Now, I'm not sure. It's starting to show its age (slightly) even with the new battery. As much as I enjoy the form factor, I wanna look into the future. It would be great if they shoved XS specs (including cameras, OLED and 3D touch) into an SE-like body, but that isn't gonna happen.

imjustsaying2• 8 years ago

a literal advertisement

reaperducer3• 8 years ago

Not really. The iPhone SE has been in a recurring topic here because it suits the needs of a certain market segment, and there wasn't a suitable equivalent after it went away.

imjustsaying2• 8 years ago

Yes really. It's a direct link to the actual product landing page to buy the product, complete with price information in the HN headline to draw the customer in.

reaperducer3• 8 years ago

I guess it's time for all those HN people who were moaning about iPhones being too big/expensive/lacking in home buttons/etc... to put their money where their mouths are.

It's a 2016 model, so it should remain supported until at least 2021. Not far off, but still better than some (many?) Android phones.

I'm not sure how $299/128GB compares to Android products, but it's cheaper than its previous $449 price.

I'd pick one up myself, except that I have a 5 that keeps on chugging along.

dklsafhjskljfl6• 8 years ago

$250/32 is barely competitive. however, you cannot buy an android phone this small that isn't complete garbage

navidr• 8 years ago

I've been using SE for the past 2 years and it is perfect for its price and I have a plan to at least use it for another year too. Its fluid animation and acceptable performance make it way superior to most Android phones. I switched from Nexus 5 and I am not going to buy any Android phone until Google guarantees I am going to get OS+Security updates for at least 4 years.

nkozyra• 8 years ago

Motorola has a few that are good, clean and in that range

droithomme2• 8 years ago

$250 isn't a good price. The SE/32 was advertised and sold for $79 at WalMart on Black Friday 2018 and was advertised and sold for $99 at WalMart on Black Friday 2017. Both times no-contract.

williamdclt• 8 years ago

Using a Motorola G3 since something like 4 years (maybe 5? not sure). I paid less than 200 euros for it (150 iirc) and with a factory reset just today, it runs great. It is acceptably small (5") and seems unbreakable: never had a cover and drop it sometimes like a normal person, yet not a sign of a crack on the screen.

So yes, you can buy an android that isn't garbage. Some are, definitely, but with just a bit of research you'll find good phones.

pmontra• 8 years ago

If you are into iPhones I think that $299 is a great price, even compared to Android phones.

I bought an Xperia X Compact in 2016 and I hope it will keep going for many years. The new Xperia Compact models are larger and heavier. Not really so compact anymore.

monksy• 8 years ago

Hauwei Honor: $250 128GB new

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Global-Version-Huawei-Honor-...

kss238• 8 years ago

cant really compare global edition prices to us phones, since the global editions don't pay qualcomm.

sublupo• 8 years ago

6.5" , no headphone jack

granshaw• 8 years ago

I’m curious how your 5 “keeps chugging along” - even a year ago my 5s was sluggish (not to mention battery lasted half a day) and the responsiveness of an X in comparison was night and day

Angostura• 8 years ago

iOS 12 gave em a new lease of life.

sdinsn• 8 years ago

They are out of stock now.

zach432• 8 years ago

they have put their money where their mouths are...the linked iPhone SE is already sold out, despite it just being an hour since this article was posted

i really want one, i wish i saw this sooner

edit: its still available in other colors, its not sold out yet,,

reaperducer3• 8 years ago

the linked iPhone SE is already sold out, despite it just being an hour since this article was posted

Hopefully that's a strong enough signal to be noticed at a meeting inside Apple.

kasey_junk• 8 years ago

I own 2 already, not sure I can justify a third.

ken• 8 years ago

It's a 2016 model, so it should remain supported until at least 2021.

According to [1], customers "may obtain service and parts from Apple or Apple service providers for 5 years after the product is no longer manufactured" -- not from when the model was first manufactured.

The 32/128 GB models were manufactured from 2017-2018, so these should be supported until 2023.

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624

kgwgk2• 8 years ago

I think he means “iOS supported”.

anoother• 8 years ago

Seems like it's $299 now...

tsul• 8 years ago

The 32 GB model is $249

ohnope• 8 years ago

$ 249 / 32GB

$ 299 / 128GB

nicebill8• 8 years ago

They really are getting desperate.

albertgoeswoof• 8 years ago

Beautiful design- but it’s effectively dead on arrival due to iOS being too bloated for dated hardware, and it’s only going to get slower as newer iPhones get faster.

olq• 8 years ago

iOS flies on my SE

knolan• 8 years ago

It has the internals of a 6s. Most folks I know with either are happy with iOS 12.

geofft2• 8 years ago

I'm on the latest iOS and I haven't felt it be any slower than iOS 9 back when I first got one. I do see it shut down at an arbitrary percentage below 10% (whereas it would previously run until 1% and get slower), and I can no longer run 32-bit apps, but that's about it.

javagram3• 8 years ago

I recently got a new battery for my SE and disabled the peak performance throttling.

Performance is perfectly fine. Keep in mind the latest iOS release is actually faster than the previous. Phones have gotten to the same point as modern computers where they don’t need to be continually upgraded.

midnightclubbed2• 8 years ago

My year old SE works great no performance issues at all.

LeoPanthera• 8 years ago

You've not been paying attention. (Or are deliberately trolling.)

One of iOS 12's advertised features was that it's significantly faster than 11 on older hardware. And that seems to be true.

mvanbaak• 8 years ago

Thank you!!!! Going to grab at least one!

cuban-frisbee• 8 years ago

New hope for a refesh?

yitchelle• 8 years ago

Damn. Not available in Germany. I was going to grab two for my two kids. If Apple price them to below 100$ price point, it would kill the low to mid level phone market.

martin_a• 8 years ago

Was looking for that, too. Seems like they just removed the SE from the German store at all. Or did I look at the wrong place? :-D

saagarjha3• 8 years ago

This is cheap enough that I might consider buying one just to replace my current SE with a phone that’s less beat up. Is Apple still making any money at this price?

stanmancan• 8 years ago

The only thing that could get me to upgrade from my iPhone 7 would be a premium version of the iPhone SE. I want a smaller phone, not a bigger one, but I want updated specs and possibly an OLED screen.

lostlogin3• 8 years ago

Not only is this something I’d love, it’s also a comment that gets a lot of upvotes on Hackers News every time it’s made. Do HN readers have an unusual like for ‘small’ phones or is it just an unserved market?

whitepoplar• 8 years ago

I like small phones because I feel that they're a better tradeoff between form + functionality. I want a premium phone, and I'm willing to pay a lot for it, but I also want to spend as little time on my phone as possible. A smaller screen gives me all the benefit while being easy to carry and handle, and the small screen keeps me from using it too much.

I also happen to think small screens feel more elegant. The promise of technology has always been to amplify humans without detracting from the important parts of life. Big screen phones feel ideologically wrong to me in that people use them as a replacement for life.

labster• 8 years ago

I think it's that hackers spend most of our day on an actual computer, either desktop or laptop, so there's no need to carry a larger cellular modem in our pockets. We use the tool that's right for the job: a real keyboard for writing, and a small phone for holding to our head.

sosborn• 8 years ago

The portion of the market not being served will always be the loudest. It doesn’t mean it is a meaningful slice (in terms of numbers) of the market.

mettamage• 8 years ago

Sounds simple to say but it's true: my pockets aren't that big and my hands aren't big enough either to comfortably hold a big phone. Can you touch all the corners of the screen with your thumb while holding your phone without moving your hand?

wodenokoto• 8 years ago

Since no one here is rushing to get the small xperia phones I'm guessing it is one of those things people want, but at the same time is the first feature they are willing to give up.

another case in point: parent only wants to change to smaller phone if all other specs are also improved.

barbs3• 8 years ago

I can't speak for all HNers but I recently bought a 128gb iPhone SE from someone on Gumtree after having used Android phones for 5 years (I'm an Android developer). I could not find any modern 4" phones. I really like being able to comfortably read the entire screen with one thumb, and the form of the phone just feels comfortable and functional. It's also one of the last modern iPhones with a headphone jack.

I do still prefer Android as an OS, though I am still getting used to iOS's quirks. I'm very happy with my purchase, though.

JansjoFromIkea• 8 years ago

I think the issue is that, day-to-day, quite a lot of people would far prefer a smaller phone (especially if it also packs better battery life), but when it comes to buying a new phone, these just aren't very attractive selling options.

There's definitely a potential market for smaller phones, but someone's gotta figure out how to market them.

moltar2• 8 years ago

I love SE. For me it’s a perfect fit factor. It’s small. I can reach all screen parts with one hand. It has a flat side, and can be placed on it’s side, eg when watching something.

stevewillows• 8 years ago

For me, I barely physically use my phone. I use iMessage from my mbp and get most notifications on my Pebble.

I do use the phone itself for audiobooks and podcasts, but otherwise its basically a server (not the best term for that.. but you get what I mean.)

What I don't get about the larger phones is how people comfortably carry them around. Maybe its because I wear skinny jeans / pants, but there's absolutely no way I could fit a larger phone in the pockets of my pants, and I rarely have a jacket on.

But the love of the SE form-factor is not isolated to HN. I know a lot of people who love a smaller phone for various reasons.

As the tech gets thinner, I'm longing for the day when we get something similar to the folding phone from HER, but with a few modifications (e.g. memory LCD / eink for other side..)

toasterlovin• 8 years ago

Motivated minorities are over-represented in media (both social and traditional).

weaksauce• 8 years ago

for me it's more of a i'd rather be able to put it in my pocket easily and not have to worry about breaking it than anything else.

cabaalis• 8 years ago

In my case, brachydactyly type d makes horizontally thinner screens (not necessarily just "smaller" ones) much easier to use. I watch people on Youtube review these giant phones, and it's the only times in my life I've experienced thumb envy.

darkpuma3• 8 years ago

Before iphones got big, I used to regularly see iphone owners mocking large android phones, saying that large phones are inconvenient, unnecessary, uncomfortable, etc.

Perhaps those people were serious, and now feel like they've been left out in the cold.

_chris_• 8 years ago

Do HN readers have an unusual like for ‘small’ phones or is it just an unserved market?

My wife wants a phone that can fit into her jean pockets. Requiring handbags just to carry a phone around is absurd, and untenable for many people.

_emacsomancer_• 8 years ago

I think HN readers are likely to own a(t least one) proper desktop and laptop, whereas for some/many other people their mobile device is really their only/main device in which case it makes sense to want a device with a larger screen. But when you have other other computing devices with large screen, it makes sense to desire a mobile device that's easiest to carry and easier to operate (one-handed etc.).

lsc5• 8 years ago

My theory is that big phones are best for single device users. Most of my social circle has a computer at home and at work, and they often carry a laptop or tablet. The phone, in that case, really is a mobile device, and especially if you are carrying around a bunch of other crap, a small phone is awful nice.

My theory is that big phones dominate because a lot of people don't have reliable/maintained computers other than their cellphone. If that was true of me, I'd want the biggest cellphone I could get, too.

Personally, I think if this is true, and phone companies figure it out, you'll see phones begin to be priced like turn-of-the-millennium laptops. The giant and clunky "desktop replacement" units should be giant and priced at the bottom of the market. The small units should have all the premium features and be way more expensive.

The fact that there are very few small smartphones being made and that none of those are 'premium' smartphones would indicate that either I am wrong or there's a market opportunity that the major cellphone manufacturers are missing.

mark-r2• 8 years ago

I recently had to use a smaller screen phone when my larger one broke and I was waiting for its replacement. I found the smaller keyboard to be nearly unusable compared to what I was used to, and the replacement larger phone only reinforces that impression.

drb914• 8 years ago

Well, it fits in any pocket, it has a headphone jack, and i don’t need to stretch to use it one handed.

vinay_ys• 8 years ago

It's because everyone here has a bigger screen (laptop) and hence wants a smaller screen phone. For vast majority of the world, phone is the only screen they own. And hence they want bigger screen.

OccamsMirror• 8 years ago

I want a smaller screen because I usually carry my iPad mini around with me for when I actually want to consume content. My phone is for calls, messaging, directions, Uber and quick Google searches.

tatami• 8 years ago

I assume the "small screen"-faction are just more vocal about it, because they feel left out by the market. The vast majority prefers, or at least don't mind the bigger screens, but don't mind phone manufacturers offering smaller versions, because they know it won't affect them in any way.

If I posted "I loved it every time my phone screen got bigger" every time this discussion comes up, it won't add much to the discussion. Now imagine ten times of the complaint-comments are of this type, that's just spam.

xeromal• 8 years ago

It definitely feels like a meme on reddit and HN. haha

setgree• 8 years ago

a comment that gets a lot of upvotes on Hackers News every time it’s made.

I wonder how many of us, if asked, would say that we spend too much time on our phones? Probably higher than the population at large. A bigger screen is nicer to look at, I readily grant. But that's exactly the problem.

hennsen• 8 years ago

there may be a part of the population who likes to put their mobile phone into their jeans’ front pocket instead of having to carry a daypack for it or these new cases to carry them outside on a string... thats why i like ~4 inch phones

thirdsun• 8 years ago

For an increasing number of "normal" people the phone is the primary computing device, mobile or at home.

However I'd be surprised if that trend applies to the HN crowd, which probably considers their phones as a secondary device, at best. An extension of the multiple other computers they use more frequently, something you need on the go, a mobile device that's used for quick glances and short uses, which gets relegated to second or third device at home. At least that's how I see it and it is why I value a small, portable form factor. Plus, I have small hands.

SwiftyBug• 8 years ago

That's my dream. I too currently own an iPhone 7. I was hoping for an improved iPhone SE, with the screen covering all of it's front, FaceID, the whole package. I couldn't care less about double, triple cameras. I want a phone smaller than the one I have now, which nowadays is the smallest you can get from Apple. That's frustrating.

clouddrover2• 8 years ago

I want a smaller phone, not a bigger one

I'd like a foldable or furlable phone that offers the best of both worlds. You'd use it folded or furled most of the time and unfold or unfurl it when you want a bigger screen.

The current foldable phones seem to be a bit too thick when folded, but I've never seen one in person so that may be a false impression.

dmix• 8 years ago

Why would you fold a phone without a keyboard? It will always be thicker which is a bigger problem IMO when putting it in your pocket than a long phone.

leoh• 8 years ago

I just want an upgraded SE, too; nothing fancy with folding

brohoolio2• 8 years ago

My dream phone is a “military grade” SE. Slightly larger battery, rugged phone. I know it would be thicker, I’d be good with that.

Sendotsh• 8 years ago

I'd love an SE with a better camera and a "weekend long" battery, meaning I can go camping or whatever Friday evening, come back Sunday night, and use it a fair bit for photos and music and stuff while away. Give it a tough exterior and I'd settle for it being twice as thick as current, and all the associated weight, and pay a premium for it.

I miss having tough phones that lasted for days. All the current tough phones have really really crap specs and run Android that's multiple versions behind, and Apple hardware these days needs to be treated like a newborn baby.

remarkEon• 8 years ago

This is literally what I want, badly.

I recently upgraded my 7 to an 8 because my 7 was too easy to damage - even with a rather rugged case (a simple drop shattered the screen). I'm really uninterested in things like camera upgrades (male, early 30s). After this phone, this will be the first time I seriously entertain a non-Apple product for my computing hardware.

At the usual Apple price point, a military grade phone is what I should expect.

alanlamm• 8 years ago

a smartphone equivalent of a nokia 1110.

ummonk• 8 years ago

You can’t get the larger battery but there are thick cases out there that make your phone way more rugged.

sjwright5• 8 years ago

The SE is so small that you could add all of these elements to the existing phone with a well designed case and you'd still have a reasonably small (albeit thick) device.

(Of course it would be nice if a next-gen SE had IP67+ water/dust resistance and a larger battery, then all you'd need is to add a highly ruggedized case and you'd be golden.)

ForHackernews2• 8 years ago

You might like this tiny rugged phone: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jellyphone/atom-world-s...

I got it off the kickstarter, but I think you can buy it retail now.

nileshk• 8 years ago

I'm also on an iPhone 7, and don't even really want a premium version of the iPhone SE, I just want an SE-sized phone with water resistance.

If it had nicer specs (e.g. hardware on par with iPhone 8 and a better display) that would a bonus. However, I wouldn't want a high-res display necessarily. I think they should keep the pixel density of the current SE. What I would found after briefly using an SE is that the low-res display coupled with the CPU/GPU from the 6S resulted in amazing UI performance -- much better than the 6S and maybe even the 7. Getting rid of the bezels would be nice, though that might detract from one of the advantages of the SE, that you can firmly grip the phone while being able to touch any part of the screen with your thumb, but it would be worth the trade-off I think.

I spent a week with an SE, after having used the 6 and the 6S before doing so, and I found I quickly adjusted to the smaller screen, and could even type faster since there was less finger travel needed (relying heavily on auto-correct).

Battery life on the SE is also great (at least it was for me), and I'd like to see that replicated on a newer small phone, with whatever tradeoff is necessary to accomplish it (e.g. low-res display, thicker phone).

brassattax• 8 years ago

I like smaller phones too, currently I have the smallest Android phone I know of (Sony Xperia X Compact). I wish they went even smaller though, I'd LOVE a modern smartphone the size of the Palm Prē

seltzered_• 8 years ago

I’d love to buy an “upgrade service” of my iPhone SE that just replaced the mainboard and camera panel with whatever the latest and greatest is, and replaced the battery with a fresh one. Would love to understand supply chain / reverse logistics / ewaste trade offs to understand if this is practical. (And yes, I’m aware of projects like fairphone, ara, etc. I’m not saying user serviceability is a requirement)

I’ve speculated this is perhaps more practical on newer laptops (e.g. 2016- MacBooks) where ports have consolidated to just all usb-c and presumably stay that way for longer than a typical 3-year physical design cycle.

sjwright5• 8 years ago

I don't think upgrading a phone makes sense from an e-waste point of view, particularly if the alternative is a robust recycling program like what Apple promotes.

Look at the constituent parts of an iPhone SE:

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/cDmVFvtAKTZvjOBk.h...

An upgrade necessarily includes a new logic board and likely a new camera module. Once you're disassembling it, you'd inevitably be swap out the battery too. Most of the remaining parts have a distinctly limited service life—in particular the battery, physical buttons and connectors.

The front glass assembly with LCD screen might have a long theoretical life but these do deteriorate over time, they get damaged easily and replaced fairly often.

After excluding the above, there's not much left to salvage—mostly aluminium parts like the outer casing, and aluminium is already one of the most recyclable components of a phone anyway.

So there's really no point.

paul7986• 8 years ago

Same here...

iPhone X/XS/XR (bought & returned one of those in Sept.) are just too big i can not one hand text, surf, etc with any of those form factors or bigger.

I hope their future models offer iPhone 6/7/8 or smaller form factors with Touch ID!

Also, bring back the audio jack ... buying $180 airpods is ridiculous as previously i could buy $10 wired headset and listen privately. Removing the audio jack seems all to me about raking in cash(selling airpods) vs. providing customers with the best UX(making me buy crazy expensive airpods is not a good user/customer experience!).

diogenescynic• 8 years ago

Also bring back the home button... I don’t like the face unlock and gestures. I’ll give up the screen real estate for the functionality.

rayiner2• 8 years ago

So after much griping about the notch, glass back, lack of headphone jack, lack of home button, and lack of Touch ID, the wife and I just bought iPhone XRs. And you know what? They’re great. Air Pods are transformational—you don’t realize how annoying the cords are until they’re gone. And quality and range are phenomenal. It’s a UX win for consumers as well as a revenue win for Apple.

The swipe gestures aren’t discoverable at all. But I noticed my 60-year-old aunt fluently using them, so I think the little tutorial they do in the Apple store when you buy one is effective.

scarface744• 8 years ago

Also, bring back the audio jack ... buying $180 airpods is ridiculous as previously i could buy $10 wired headset and listen privately.

You know you do have other choices when it comes to headphones besides AirPods? Including the lightning headphones that come with it, any BT headphones, or a $10 adapter that came with the phone until last year.

mandeepj• 8 years ago

it's "out of stock" now.

Not sure, a lot of HNers have placed a ton of orders in the past few hours

PascLeRasc• 8 years ago

I just went from an SE to an iPhone 8 and it feels like a downgrade in overall usability and design. The flat edges of the SE were so much nicer-feeling and easier to hold, and I never had an issue with the screen size. All I'd like is a slightly better camera in the SE, everything else is perfect IMO.

mrzool• 8 years ago

I stopped considering my iPhone SE a “small phone” and I started considering it for what it actually is: a “just right” phone.

Ergonomically speaking, 4 inches is the right size for a device that is meant to be operated by a human hand. Phones bigger that that are grossly oversized and anti-ergonomic.

That’s just common sense (cit. Apple): https://youtu.be/O99m7lebirE

tqkxzugoaupvwqr• 8 years ago

Apple introduced one-hand mode a long time ago for its bigger models which I find helps somewhat. But what I sometimes miss is a mode to permanently resize the displayed screen area to a smaller area. With the iPhone’s current mode, the screen is only lowered so the top buttons can be reached, but the lower half is moved off-screen, and the mode is limited to a few interactions after which the displayed screen is moved up again. What I miss is a mode to permanently resize the displayed screen area to a smaller one so my thumb can reach every point. I hear some Android phones have this. Would be nice to have. Even better if I can adjust the screen area’s size to fit the length of my thumb. And when I want fullscreen again, I switch to fullscreen mode.

Geee2• 8 years ago

Losing the home button and extra bezel could probably make it ergonomic up to 4.5 inches.

jf-2• 8 years ago

You realise there is significant variation in the size of people’s hands? I consider a 4 inch phone so small as to be nearly unusable. Apple’s approach of having differently size phones for different people is the right one.

gigatexal• 8 years ago

Yep. The best looking phone they ever made was the stainless steel iPhone 4s (and I own an iPhone X). Give me something like that (even an SE) but with an oled screen and such.

andrepd• 8 years ago

Then consider a xperia compact.

40acres• 8 years ago

Hardware lends itself to a vertical business model, Apple has clearly been the best example but even video game console manufacturers write their own games.

With AI assistants seemingly the 'next big thing', which lends itself to a more horizontal model, will Apple change gears to accommodate? Their services division has been growing rapidly.

Apple could leverage it's brand to create an awesome cell phone at a very cheap price. Not a lot of low income people are buying the the XR, my sister has had to replace her iPhone for at least six months but as a college student she's not going to spend a grand on a phone. Maybe it's time for Apple to dial down the luxury brand pricing and make a phone for the common man?

madeofpalk• 8 years ago

With AI assistants seemingly the 'next big thing'

Are 'AI Assistants' the 'next big thing' in the same way that 'chatbots' where the 'next big thing' in 2015?

To me, it just seems that the market is mostly propped up by Medium articles and vendors trying to force the next big thing to make payday.

scarface744• 8 years ago

Not a lot of low income people are buying the the XR, my sister has had to replace her iPhone for at least six months but as a college student she's not going to spend a grand on a phone.

Why do people act as if the only choice for Apple products is the highest priced option? This is about how people are composing that they have to buy AirPods now that there is no headphone jack.

Apple sells the iPhone 7 for $475.

cpcallen• 8 years ago

Aaand... they're gone.

zach432• 8 years ago

theyre still available in other colors here:

https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance

i just ordered one, finally got the phone ive wanted!

city41• 8 years ago

This will be my third gold Apple device. I don't mind the color but the world in general seems to.

I'm excited, once my iPhone 6 kicks the bucket, I'll have a great backup ready.

aboutruby2• 8 years ago

Thanks a lot!

protomyth• 8 years ago

Well, it looks like all clearance iPhones are gone.

JohnJamesRambo• 8 years ago

But HN commenters told me there must not be demand for this size phone!

giancarlostoro• 8 years ago

I wonder if they're going to discontinue production of them once they sell them all out? It seems to already be sold out for some of the models (depending on color chosen).

eschneider• 8 years ago

My iPhone 4S is perfectly sized for me and seems indestructible but the battery has been gradually getting worse and worse. I'd hoped that the SE form factor would get an update with the last set of model refreshes and was sadly disappointed when it was discontinued.

When I saw this post, I immediately ordered one.

maz1b• 8 years ago

I don't understand why Apple can't update the SE in its current design iteration. Obviously if they can release a redesigned iPhone in a small form factor, I'd hop on it.

I want a small one handed device that has the latest specs and TouchID, and a headphone jack.

huebnerob2• 8 years ago

Simple, because people would buy it instead of the more expensive new iPhones. They don't want unit sales anymore, they want ASP.

dymk2• 8 years ago

Firstly, final phone price doens't matter. Margins matter. These phones are old hardware; it's not inconceivable that mass-producing them would yield margins just as good (if not better) than the cutting-edge.

Secondly, Armament Systems and Procedures? Active Server Pages?

FreakyT• 8 years ago

Back when I bought my SE, it was cheaper than getting a 6, despite having better specs. I also check for deals online a lot, and the SE was almost constantly being discounted. I think it's not unreasonable, based on these, to assume that it never really sold particularly well.

Based on that, I'd say that they stopped making the SE simply because only a very small, specific slice of the market actually wants to purchase such a device, and it's not worth keeping a unique product in their portfolio if the sales numbers just aren't there.

brohoolio2• 8 years ago

The 5s/SE is less than 5% of mobile traffic at our site.

raydev2• 8 years ago

First, I think this long cycle was intentional, the small phones have a market, but not big enough to require frequent updates.

Secondly, I think Apple wants to drop the home button on all devices. The next SE will be edge-to-edge screen. This March will mark 3 years since the last release.

If it doesn't show up in March, maybe it will appear in September with the other phones.

But if it doesn't appear this year, then:

- they had production problems with the fancy screen

- OR they decided to drop the SE altogether

aboutruby2• 8 years ago

If I knew about it I would have bought one and told everyone I know to buy one.

shykes• 8 years ago

Too late for me, I already bought 3 of them at full price... I’m estimating that’s the reserve I need to hold out until Apple changes their mind and bring back this form factor.

moltar2• 8 years ago

Only US

starpilot• 8 years ago

Got a new one in November when the battery replacement for my old one failed at the Apple store. They just unboxed a new iPhone SE in front of me and I was amazed they still had any left.

jostmey• 8 years ago

I have an iPhone SE and I've been extremely disappointed in its quality. After the warranty expired, the touch screen started giving out, a microphone stopped working, and the LED backlight started fading. I don't recommend the phone

sjwright5• 8 years ago

I know five people with iPhone SE devices (I recommend them to older family members who aren't phone addicts and to anyone who baulks at the cost of a new phone) and all of them are still working perfectly. I do recommend the phone.

Given the hundreds of millions of iPhones Apple sells, there inevitably going to be some lemons.

DevKoala• 8 years ago

I am an SE fan. I used mine until the XS was released. I wish the XS was just a tad smaller.

intopieces2• 8 years ago

The 128GB would make a great iPod. You can go to T-Mobile and get a data-only, $20/month "DHH" plan that includes audio streaming zero-rated, meaning it doesn't take up any of your data to stream Apple Music / Spotify etc.

burlesona• 8 years ago

Like many others I wish they’d release one with fresh hardware. I’d buy one immediately, for my wife, who hates all the phones since the 5s because she can’t hold them well. There’s this whole ridiculous pop-socket thing she uses so that she can hold an iPhone 7 without dropping it, she swears it’s the only thing that makes it usable for her.

Wish this market was bigger since apparently there’s not enough demand.

tass2• 8 years ago

Those awkward things attached to the back? I guess she doesn’t have pockets since it makes them a really awkward shape - such a weird usability trade off yet many people seem to have them.

I hope this is a test of demand - I ordered one since my existing one is falling apart after some big drops but I didn’t want something bigger.

I tried an LG v30 and it always felt like I was about to drop it (though the audio sounds really nice!) I can’t find any phone besides the SE that I’d rather buy even without price as a factor.

drb914• 8 years ago

It says “out of stock”, dammit.

lowlevel2• 8 years ago

Apparently you need to upgrade to ios11 to view the site. NO DEAL.

torgian• 8 years ago

It’s too bad they won’t make a new one

pfalke• 8 years ago

Note that it’s a clearance sale within ‘certified refurbished’, so these are not entirely new devices.

eugeniub• 8 years ago

These look to be new. Refurbished listings clearly indicate that, for example, the listing "Refurbished iPhone 7 128GB - Black (Unlocked)" [1], and it goes on to describe details about what a refurbished phone from Apple entails — all things that are missing from the iPhone SE page. My guess is Apple doesn't normally sell new "clearance" products, so they decided to just add it to the existing discount/refurbished store.

[1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FN8L2/Refurbished-iPhone-...

holstvoogd• 8 years ago

aaaand its gone (at least online)

davej• 8 years ago

I use iPhone SE as my daily driver because of the form factor. Give me a premium SE with thinner bezels and I would probably pay close to iPhone X prices. There are quite a few of us out there.

h1d3• 8 years ago

Don't try to motivate Apple to make everything more expensive as it will fail them.

maxdo• 8 years ago

That’s so wrong... you can have a borderless formfactor form redmi(sub brand of xiaomi) for 160 usd , and 5 y.o. Design for much $200+. I’m ok that Apple price is higher, but it should be decent. What Apple is doing is selling expensive outdated tech and formfactors.

cimmanom2• 8 years ago

Did they maybe finally realize that people love the phone for its size, not its price?

EvanAnderson• 8 years ago

I bought two to replace the iPhone 4 and 4S that my wife and I use. Does anybody know if there is still a reasonable source for a battery case for this model? (I'd like to prolong the life of the internal battery.) Everything I'm seeing on Amazon is scaring the heck out of me-- tales of melting cases, dead batteries after a month, etc. I assume that I've just come to the party too late.

TheSaaSGuy• 8 years ago

I am holding on to my SE and has been buying phones in the private market to keep a new SE available. I like the form factor size, but would be very keen to get an update processor .

8bitsrule• 8 years ago

Hmmm. From the comments, looks like it's time for modular phones. That way, everyone could assemble what they need, and change when they need.

Whole new ecosystem follows.

h1d3• 8 years ago

Now that they failed to make everything more expensive for no good reason, they bring back old models like Mac mini, iPad mini and now iPhone SE. Truly not a revolutionizing company anymore but just stares at the balance sheet to figure out what to do next.

Apple was 5 years ahead of everyone while Jobs was around and now struggling to just stay relevant. I still like most of Apple products and use them daily but they should do better.

KiDD• 8 years ago

Of course it is sold out by now

Apple resumes selling iPhone SE at lower $249 price on its clearance store

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