How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

http://travel.stackexchange.com/q/24540/101

by nsaparanoid • 12 years ago

175 165 12 years ago

travel.stackexchange.com

smcl• 12 years ago

This doesn't sound like a great idea. A friend of mine with an Indian passport and a valid UK work visa was visiting Northern Ireland and decided to try to sneak a quick bus trip into Republic of Ireland. Their bus was randomly stopped and everyone's passports were checked (these are pretty infrequent, I believe), the police quickly noticed they didn't have a valid visa for Ireland, took their details and then took them back to the North. Later that year he had a bit of trouble visiting mainland EU, the immigration officials cited his previous attempt to illegally enter Ireland - evidently it had been logged in some EU immigration database and can follow you around for a while.

And this is just Ireland, I imagine the repercussions of getting denied from the US are a little more severe.

drrotmos2• 12 years ago

Being denied entry isn't illegal, and isn't necessarily going to adversely affect future entry attempts. Overstaying your visa, or illegally entering a country on the other hand is a crime. If you have committed crimes in a country, you will have a harder time getting in next time.

bigd• 12 years ago

careful: there's a difference to point out here - Visas are for entering/exiting the country and are the stamps on the passport. Then you can stay as long as you have your residence permit.

Example:

    #when you enter the country you get 
    DS2019: 1yr #residence permit
    Visa: 1yr   # from when you enter the country
    until you leave the country:
      if your contract get renewed (DS2019++)
      else illegal

the visa in your passport is worth nothing when inside the US. the fact that the two are confused might be very misleading.

usaphp• 12 years ago

Overstaying your visa is not a crime. The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) contains only civil penalties for an immigrant who overstays her visa. This means that immigrants with an expired visa will not be charged criminally or serve time in jail.

Entering country illegally however IS a crime.

rplnt• 12 years ago

Ireland is a member state of EU. It's understandable how that can affect EU's view on you. I don't know what US could affect. Perhaps some country that US invaded and is in control off?

khuey2• 12 years ago

You don't think the EU and the US share information here?

jotm• 12 years ago

I was confused at first, then I remembered UK is not a Schengen member - if you get a UK visa, it's for the UK only; if you get a visa for any other EU country, you can go wherever you want in the EU, except the UK. Weird situation :-)

jeremysmyth• 12 years ago

Ireland has opted out too. UK and Ireland are part of a "Common Travel Area" (a region that doesn't require passports to travel within, and which includes other islands in the British Isles), but aren't in Schengen.

_delirium5• 12 years ago

There's exceptions in the other direction as well: Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland aren't EU members, but Schengen visas are valid there.

k-mcgrady2• 12 years ago

I presume this was many years ago. There aren't any border checks I know of between the North and South or Ireland these days. I take the bus and train to Dublin all the time and drive there quite often and have not seen a checkpoint since the 90's.

Fomite2• 12 years ago

The only bus I ever took from Dublin to Belfast and back was boarded by immigration and our papers checked.

This was 2006.

yason• 12 years ago

The reason why this was asked is baffling to me.

If you don't want to go, then do not go. I assume the AP was an adult. Adults don't need to resort to tricks like trying to get rejected: adults can just reject the invite themselves.

maxerickson• 12 years ago

It's baffling you think this is true for everyone.

Fuxy5• 12 years ago

Some people let themselves be force into things. I find it quite sad that they lack the strength to just say no.

Edit: Peer pressure is a bitch especially when it's from your own family but don't let yourself be manipulated by it.

Edit2: Some people have pointed out that it's not easy and in certain cultures be enough to kill a person.

Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture".

However ask yourself this: I have 1 life am i willing to spend it all in a cage with some people i barely know making the rules?

If the answer is yes the the give up already you don't have a choice if the answer is no do whatever it takes.

hav• 12 years ago

It's hard to have the strength to say no in certain situations. Not everyone is in the same position as you to say no.

levosmetalo• 12 years ago

It's not only about personal strength, no one is strong enough to change deep cultural heritage and go alone against 1000 year long culture in which woman has no say. From the comments, it's obvious it's a forced marriage and that the OP couldn't do anything about it. It's not about her husbands family, it's also her family that first "sold" or forced her to marry, and then they want her to live with that guy. Who knows, may be some blood is in danger to be spilled if she plainly refuse to go.

That all being said, I wish her good look to find a way to do it without putting herself in any kind of danger.

seren• 12 years ago

Remember that in certain circumstances and parts of the world "peer pressure" can mean honor killing.

kalleboo2• 12 years ago

Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture".

I don't think anyone here is saying it's acceptable. But maybe there's a easier way than instantly rebelling, losing her funding for living expenses/college, and possibly getting a headhunter after her. Perhaps she can keep up the "denied entry into the US" lie long enough to make it finish college and become more independent, and then have the strength to fight?

Being pragmatic instead of idealistic isn't always wrong. Especially when your future life is on the line.

negamax• 12 years ago

This is where cultural gaps kicks in. She might face lots of pressure from her relatives back home if she don't pretend that she tried (I am guessing) but it's a valid possibility.

baby• 12 years ago

You make life seems so easy.

Jacqued• 12 years ago

In some countries family-related problems can be REALLY hard to deal with, because sons and daughters (maybe even more so daughters than sons) are socially expected to obey their parents in whatever way the parents deem appropriate.

The other option is to say no and then basically the whole family may overreact and stop all relations with you (husband, brothers and sisters, parents, uncles, even the most distant of cousins). Suddenly you don't have a family anymore.

The OP on the stackexchange site might be in such a situation. In that case, lying your way out of the situation might be the lesser evil (for now).

If she has the time and means to do so getting questionable visas (from US customs point of view) might cut it. I guess if you have visas for Iran, Yemen and Somalia on your passport it would not be too hard to get rejected at the borders.

snoonan• 12 years ago

A lot of the world doesn't subscribe to the individual-is-always-paramount view. This situation sucks, but helping the person starts with understanding the problem.

bitJericho• 12 years ago

Surely she could just say she was rejected. Does she need notarized proof??

aestra9• 12 years ago

She said her family is "smart" and some work at JFK. She believes they will know if she didn't actually come.

jallardice• 12 years ago

I think you need to view this from the perspective of the individual in question. She just posted this comment:

I have said "No" but being a Pakistani girl there's nothing I can do. I was even forced to marry that guy who is 15 years older than me. And I would say goodbye to everything but I have to wait for the right time. I'm being mean though, I need my family right now to support me until I finish my school. And then it will be up to me. I know I sound selfish but it's nothing compared to what they've done to me and my life.

pbhjpbhj• 12 years ago

Let's assume that the writer is in an arranged marriage that she didn't consent to (except perhaps under some duress). There have certainly been "honour killings" in the UK and I doubt that other countries have solved that problem completely. If she runs then her life may be on the line.

Under such a scenario the refusal of entry would appear to be something she can't control; plausible deniability is there at least. Thus she could avoid staying without appearing to have been disobedient, instead appearing to have been subject to the authority of the immigration control.

Now the line about having relatives at the airport makes me think this is probably a hypothetical.

How would things pan out if she simply hands herself over to the immigration officers and says that she's there under duress, that her husband is illegally resident and that he intends for her to unlawfully remain in the USA against her will? Presumably entry with intent to stay beyond the limits of one's authorisation is unlawful and would normally meet with deporting?

snippyhollow• 12 years ago

Exactly, if you look at one of her answers:

""" Yes they're paying for my college and I live with them. Things were going good but then marriage and US came and ruined everything. I refused to go and I was told "you have to go". And yeah it's for real, if I do something which brings dishonour to my family they'll kill me and my mother will get in trouble as well. I know it's hard for you to understand but this is how my culture is. """

chunky19942• 12 years ago

I find it quite baffling too. It seems that a majority of people trapped in these situations lack the strength to reject them and make decisions for themselves, rather than blindly follow cultural obligations.

Since the OP lives in Spain and is a Spanish resident, it's a rather reasonable guess that she's managed to to mitigate her circumstance to one that's manageable (by putting distance between her family and herself), so kudos to her, and yet she still struggles with a rejection of the invite which is quite sad.

Disclaimer: I'm a (semi?) immigrant who's lived in India for most of his life (before coming to Canada, which was heavily dissuaded by a lot of my maternal family) so I have a sense of what it's like to reject the cultural oppression that the OP seems to face.

thesimpsons1022• 12 years ago

I think part of it is they are paying for her college and living expenses.

JonnieCache• 12 years ago

The issue isn't that refusal would shame her, it's that refusal would shame her family, and her husband and his family. They then have to save face somehow. That's when the problems start.

kalleboo2• 12 years ago

She has a Pakistani family. It sounds like she's in a forced arranged marriage. This is a culture that condones murdering family members who don't obey their parents[0]. Even if her family isn't that radical, it should give you an idea of the kind of thoughts she's having.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan "honour killings have a high level of support in Pakistan's rural society"

aestra9• 12 years ago

Disobeying her family is an offense punishable by murder in some cultures. Don't you guys get that!!!!???? This is a cultural acceptable practice.

Women aren't "adults" in this situation. They are property of men.

In addition - she said it can get her parents (mostly mother) in trouble and probably danger. This is probably because when a women disobeys she brings shame to her entire family. Her inlaws may attack her mother for her actions.

anonymfus• 12 years ago

Easiest way is to strike out your visa in your passport.

Fuxy5• 12 years ago

This can be solved with just the following:

"Honey I love you but i can go through that ordeal i had last time again. I love my life here and i don't want to go we're going to have to find another way."

If you can't be straight with your husband you might as well divorce now it's not going to get easier.

aurumpotest• 12 years ago

As she said on stackexchange, she was forced to marry her husband, who is 15 years older than she is, by her family. So I'd guess it's not as simple as that.

Fuxy5• 12 years ago

My bad must have missed that part. See my other comments then.

aestra9• 12 years ago

Yeah friggin right.

This woman is Pakistani. An Islamic marriage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Islam) is between a man and the wali of a woman, who gives her to the husband to be his wife, NOT a contract between the two members of the marriage. A wali is a "guardian" of a women. (or really, owner) The bride does not even need to be present when the marriage contract is signed.

Honey I love you

She does not appear to love or even like her husband.

Disobeying her family is punishable by death. It also brings great shame to her family and can endanger her mother for example.

Hansi• 12 years ago

I fear this will get a lot of "Just say no" comments from people that don't understand that the author is from Pakistan and most likely grew up in a completely different culture than most of us are used to.

And it seems like she's not villing/able to cut of contact with her family as I would maybe do if I were in her place, but I'll never be so it's hard to even imagine what I'd do.

agilebyte2• 12 years ago

Plus she says deporting the husband did not work and her relatives are apparently working on JFK. What a mix.

JetSpiegel• 12 years ago

From [1]:

I have said "No" but being a Pakistani girl there's nothing I can do. I was even forced to marry that guy who is 15 years older than me. And I would say goodbye to everything but I have to wait for the right time. I'm being mean though, I need my family right now to support me until I finish my school. And then it will be up to me. I know I sound selfish but it's nothing compared to what they've done to me and my life

[1] https://travel.stackexchange.com/a/24553

strictfp2• 12 years ago

Even though this advice isn't something she might consider in her current situation, it might be good for her to hear it. After all, she's basically a hostage in this situation, and hearing people confirm this might prevent her from getting stuck in a "Stockholm syndrome". And frankly, I think her best move in this situation would be to say no and find refuge for herself. Yes, family members might get seriously injured as a result, but the way I see it there is no other way of breaking free from such an oppressive culture. Everything is set up to lure you back.

tinco3• 12 years ago

You are forgetting that she is in college, and desires to continue to do so.

Overtly saying no will most likely result in family or friends of family going after her in Spain. Once you enter the Shengen area of Europe, which is reachable by car from Pakistan you can basically get anywhere. There are countless easily traversed borders to this area in corrupt/poorer countries. After that there's close to no border checks.

It is really easy for friends/family to get to Spain and make her life difficult there.

aestra9• 12 years ago

Seriously? You know she can die for doing this? Honor killings are real for women not obeying her family, especially in matters of sex and marriage.

Sandeela Kanwal - killed by her parents for trying to leave her arranged marriage.

Noor Almaleki - murdered by her parents for (among other things) shunning arranged marriage. The other things were trying to be too western, like wanting to have the privilege of driving a car.

Those are the ones that just took place in the US lately.

You have no idea what is is like to be in her situation!!

smoe7• 12 years ago

One of the "just say no" sayer here. I do understand, that the author is from Pakistan and currently studying in Spain. But, even though I think family is important, sometimes you have to value your own will over that of the family, no matter the cost. My father lost almost all of his friends, decades of relations, and didn't had contact with his family for years, because he decided to leave the "sect" and marry a woman from Finland whom he loved instead of the 2nd degree cousin the family has designated for him. This was in Christian Switzerland not Pakistan, but still a lot of pressure to handle.

_delirium5• 12 years ago

It sounds like she's worried about practicalities too, though, not only relationship with family. She indicated she's willing to cut ties after she finishes school, but they're currently financially supporting her studies. If she graduates from a university in Spain she has a much better chance of getting a job & work permit to stay in Europe.

It's possible she could stay in Spain even if they cut off support, but it's not anything like a guarantee. Officially the default in most European countries is that if you're on a student visa and no longer have the ability to study full-time and support yourself, you get deported. It might be possible to support oneself on part-time jobs, though youth unemployment is very high in Spain currently even among Spaniards. It might be possible to claim asylum, but that is not easy either (Spain grants asylum rarely, <250 people/yr typically). Not sure what the right answer is.

LaGrange3• 12 years ago

See the "I don't want my family to get in trouble, they're gonna kill me if they find out that I did something at the airport.” comment later? Think it’s a hyperbole? Well, it’s not.

aestra9• 12 years ago

Christian Switzerland doesn't have a history of honor killings.

guard-of-terra3• 12 years ago

"because he decided to leave the "sect" and marry a woman from Finland whom he loved instead of the 2nd degree cousin the family has designated for him"

Wow, now you owe us a story describing which community in Switzerland does things like this.

einhverfr7• 12 years ago

Also keep in mind that in most of the world, familial ties are much stronger than in the US.

I am not in the "just say no" category. Instead I am in the "just say yes" category. Then go off, run away, sue for divorce, and then decide what to do. If she can safely return home, do it. If not, then there is the asylum process. Being in the US may provide many more options than being in Pakistan would in this regard.

I say this being conscious that this is a specific situation and the individual involved will have to make the decisions for herself. I also say this as someone who is probably reasonably well known here as reasonably critical of American individualism, but there are times when it can be handy and this might be one.

rdl3• 12 years ago

More specifically, she still expects her family to support her financially, so she can't say "no".

BlackDeath34• 12 years ago

That sounds like the real problem to me.

I know I'll come off as a culturally-insensitive douchebag for saying this, but the fact that somebody isn't used to saying "no", or even being able to say "no", doesn't mean that it isn't the best option. That's not to say that it is the best option here (like most, I'm not terribly familiar with the person's particular situation), but I think that "I'm not used to doing X" isn't a great reason to not do X.

EDIT: Apparently this person fears for their life if they disobey their family's wishes? That's god-damned barbaric.

MichaelGG3• 12 years ago

Yeah, she even said that she has family working at JFK that can check up on things and report if she doesn't show.

I get it, on technical things, you can be 100% correct in telling someone "no, what you're attempting is just wrong, and this approach works better". On issues of life, with adults, it might be nice to remind people of other options. It's just silly though to insist that the person hasn't thought of their position and didn't come up with the idea of "oh I should just call the cops".

It's like someone says "how can I hide that I'm a heroin addict at work; I can't lose my job right now" and the reply is just "stop using drugs". Wow, that's helpful.

geff82• 12 years ago

Families are MUCH closer in Pakistan and the rest of the Middle East than they are in the western world. Doing things against the families will can get you in big trouble and leave you without your family at all. The main difference between the Middle East and the West is: in the west, you grow up and you are taught by your parents how to stay on your own. That is why Westerners often only see their parents and brothers and sisters occasionally. In the Middle East, you grow up to be a good part of the family for the rest of your life. As I married a girl from the Middle East I had to learn and feel the differences and resulting occasional tensions. So to say it short: you normally are not supposed to leave your family in Pakistan. So this girl feels she is in great trouble, even if the solution may seem so simple for us.

songshu• 12 years ago

Pakistan is not a Middle Eastern country

Dylan16807• 12 years ago

The first official use of the term "Middle East" by the United States government was in the 1957 Eisenhower Doctrine, which pertained to the Suez Crisis. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles defined the Middle East as "the area lying between and including Libya on the west and Pakistan on the east, Syria and Iraq on the North and the Arabian peninsula to the south, plus the Sudan and Ethiopia."

Pakistan is on the edge, including or excluding it's more of an opinion thing.

dasil0032• 12 years ago

Yeah and my dad (Brazilian) is fond of saying that Brazil is not a Latin American country because of language and cultural divide between Spanish vs Portuguese colonies.

Fine, both of those are valid beliefs. But you shouldn't feel the need to inject them as a tangent in random conversations to educate people. You will never ever win this battle.

wpaladin• 12 years ago

Pakistan wants to be a Middle Eastern country.

einhverfr7• 12 years ago

Pakistan is about as Middle Eastern as Iran is.....

tarekmoz• 12 years ago

I think this will work:

- "What's the purpose of your visit?" - "I will be looking for a job in the U.S." - "But you have a visitor's VISA here" - "Oh.. mmm.. but I am coming here to work" - "I am sorry this is not going to work out"

drrotmos2• 12 years ago

Or, rather than lying to the border agent (which I believe is a crime in the US, isn't it?), she could simply tell the truth: that she's visiting her husband and that she'll most likely be coerced to overstay her visa.

That should get her entry denied too.

outworlder• 12 years ago

Precisely. Not sure if it is a crime or not (probably!), but lying is never a good idea, specially to an immigration agent.

Just telling the truth should suffice. The only issue is if it will cause trouble later on should she try to enter again. I assume it would.

EDIT: There is probably a 'alien will probably overstay' flag somewhere. Not a 'alien will overstay provided she is still married to an out of status alien'.

rockdoe• 12 years ago

This seems a quite sane and simple answer.

sergiotapia2• 12 years ago

Wow what trash suggestions that woman is getting. "Just report him."

What the fuck SE community? Just ruin the lives of more than one family living in the states just because this girl is too chicken to just say no - from thousands of miles away no less.

marquis2• 12 years ago

She's not chicken. Saying that is disrespectful to the culture she is coming from. She is trying to find the most diplomatic way to extricate herself from an arranged marriage without destroying her connections to her family.

LaGrange3• 12 years ago

Please note that when she says about different culture she doesn’t mean even she respects it, in any other way that you might „respect” a bully. It’s not about destroying her connection with family, it’s about avoiding violence against her, her mother and her sister.

BlackDeath34• 12 years ago

Saying that is disrespectful to the culture she is coming from.

I'm getting the feeling that the culture she comes from is causing her to fear for her life because of disobedience. She may deserve respect herself, but her culture certainly doesn't.

67726e• 12 years ago

From the comments, she is a woman from Pakistan. Thought it appears she is currently studying in Spain, she would probably wind up back in Pakistan. Now I'm guessing she is from a more affluent family, but Pakistan isn't entirely known for women's rights...

agilebyte2• 12 years ago

She tried to get him deported.

She is studying in Spain.

She is from Pakistan where cultural norms are different.

chunky19942• 12 years ago

I don't understand how this is 'ruining' lives. I mean, it seems her husband's family overstayed their visa deliberately and without due process.

How is this not a warranted situation for deportation, and why should he not be deported?

sergiotapia2• 12 years ago

I'm not going to get into immigration debate here, look it up.

Forplax• 12 years ago

I, too, am too chicken to get myself murdered.

"if I do something which brings dishonour to my family they'll kill me and my mother will get in trouble as well. I know it's hard for you to understand but this is how my culture is."

Nursie4• 12 years ago

If nobody ever takes a stand then this is how it will continue as well.

logfromblammo5• 12 years ago

Families who hold cultural values that are antipodal to our own, which tend to abhor slavery in all of its forms. If their lives are ruined, it is because they are flagrantly disobeying laws on immigration and human trafficking.

By the same argument, imprisoning the criminal mastermind of an organized crime family is also ruining the lives of more than one family. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. In the US, and in Europe, forced marriages, involuntary servitude, and other curtailments of free will and self determination are considered immoral, and in most places are also illegal. If the families wished to continue living by exclusively Pakistani cultural values, perhaps they shouldn't be trying to control women like chattel property in Spain and the US.

WTF sergiotapia?

They can avoid having their lives ruined merely by not acting like misogynist thugs amidst teeming hordes of people that believe in gender equality.

myzerox• 12 years ago

"I want to start a company, employ US citizens, pay taxes, and drive GDP growth."

terranstyler• 12 years ago

The officials deciding about your status most probably couldn't care less.

This is not an opinion but my experience (I tried exactly that line tough in a different country)

Nursie4• 12 years ago

Go to the Spanish authorities, tell them the situation (illegally living in the USA) and that you fear for your life and need asylum in Spain.

F*ck the sort of family that marries you to someone 15 years older against your will, frankly.

vacri• 12 years ago

Would forced marriage be okay if the age difference was smaller?

dobbsbob• 12 years ago

Easy, when asked why you are are entering the states say 'no reason' and get a 24hr to year long ban. I've tested this when my idiot friend gave that response while we were driving across the peace arch border.

pyre• 12 years ago

Might be different if you have a Canadian passport, than if you have a Pakistani passport.

mherdeg2• 12 years ago

Does Spain have an equivalent to the UK government's "forced marriage unit" ( https://www.gov.uk/forced-marriage ), an agency whose job is to help people in this kind of situation?

mherdeg2• 12 years ago

Looking closer — I think no?. Some of the European countries which criminalize forced marriage, according to this June 2012 survey ( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... ), include: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, and Germany.

In Austria: "Forcing someone into marriage is a distinct criminal offence in Austria. Austrians and people living in Austria are facing legal consequences for such actions only if this kind of marriage occurs within the country’s borders. From January 2012 the Federal Government has amended the anti-forced marriage law to allow prosecutors to press charges against perpetrators over forced marriages abroad.

In Belgium: "Forcing someone to marry is a criminal offence."

In Cyprus: "Forcing someone to marry is a criminal offence."

In Denmark: "The Danish Criminal Code includes an offence of unlawful coercion, prohibiting the use of threats by a person to force another person to do something against their will. This offence would apply to marriage if threats were used to force a person into marriage against their will. The penalty for this offence ranges from a fine to a period of imprisonment not exceeding two years."

In Germany: "Forcing someone to marry is a distinct criminal offence and can be punished by up to five years in prison. The law also gives non-German citizens who are forced by their husbands/families to leave the country after their marriage a legal right to return to Germany. "

I don't know what I'd do in this situation — I'm not even sure I can understand what it's like. But with a Schengen visa and Spanish residency, one option might be to move to Germany and seek protection from the government there. This is a tough situation for people to be in.

disputin• 12 years ago

I am clearly not a lawyer: if you tell passport control that you lost your drugs on the plane, there will be no evidence to prosecute you, but they probably won't let you in.

More seriously, just don't get on the plane, then after a period of time contact your family and tell them you got refused entry. Spend a day or two at the airport or a nearby hotel.

fleitz• 12 years ago

No no no, please do not mention anything about drugs, you will get a lifetime ban.

mrcasual• 12 years ago

Yes, but that one sure way to get denied entry.

Under Sec. 212 (8 U.S.C.1182) you are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States if you 'voluntarily admit to having committed a crime involving moral turpitude

Here's a recent story: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/White+Rock+woman+barred+fro...

runarberg• 12 years ago

It's a pity I can't answer on the SE but I have experience in this matter, I came to the US (through Newark) once with a visa to stay for 6 months, without proof of financial support, without contact information for somebody in the US, reluctance to tell my purpose, and a tent as my means of accommodation. I was taken to a back room where they were going to deny me entry, but I manage to persuade them that I had an uncle living in Texas and a friend in Oregon.

So my advice is, go there without money, accommodation, contacts or purpose, and they won't let you in.

vpeters25• 12 years ago

My advice to her: NEVER get in trouble with any country's government on purpose, completely abandon this line of thought and figure out something else. I bet she would rather live with her "stupid in-laws" than in a Federal PMITA facility.

jessaustin• 12 years ago

IANAL, I doubt that the penalty for being denied entry is anal rape in a federal penitentiary. I thought the penalty was, you know, being denied entry.

whizzkid• 12 years ago

Most of suggestions people give on this problem is like this;

Problem: Site doesn't work in IE

Solution: Then don't use it.

It is not that easy.

Her problem is really complex one. As i can not answer it on site (protected question), i will try to give some ideas to her here.

She needs to somehow trick the family members and the husband in US. One solution can be getting a fake paper that wants her to give information about the people she is related in US. This can stop family members asking her to come to US, since her husband is not legally living there. But connecting this fake paper to her travel to US is little tricky. Family needs to somehow believe that it is coming from government. Maybe women rights association can help with this one, if she can reach them.

The other option can be to somehow make them believe that she took the flight but they send her back. In this case she needs to find a really good excuse that family members will believe and will not investigate further.

If you think these are reasonable ideas, please let her know on travel.stackexchange, because i can not.

einhverfr7• 12 years ago

An obvious answer is go to the US and sue for divorce, and return to Pakistan?

aestra9• 12 years ago

Except their marriage is probably a Pakistani one.

einhverfr7• 12 years ago

Question: Will Pakistan recognize the divorce as long as they were living in the US at the time? My bet would be on yes.

guard-of-terra3• 12 years ago

If it's registered it should be internationally recognized in USA and thus prone to suing for divorce?

einhverfr7• 12 years ago

I think the traditional solution is to go say yes, move in. Start breaking things (dishes and stuff) until he asks for a divorce. Bonus points for making it plausibly an accident. Go home. At least that is what I have read about Morocco where the divorce rate is relatively high.

It seems relatively common elsewhere as well, in my experience.

One of the things that is not to like (especially if you are a woman) in many Middle Eastern countries is that the household matriarch is the husband's mother and the households are patrilocal. This means that if you are a woman and you get married, you end up as a very low-status individual until your first son is married and then you have status and power to make his wife as miserable as you were.

So it isn't a good situation but one thing to keep in mind is that being in a more individualistic culture gives you options. My recommendation would not be to try to get denied entry at all but to go. Then evaluate your options, build contacts, and see what you need to do. The US culture and legal system doesn't support the same kinds of things and this can bring some power.

logfromblammo5• 12 years ago

Hacker News is very qualified to give this person technical advice, but her problem originates in human relationships, and the solution requires some amount of diplomacy.

Everything we say on this matter is useless until confirmed by an outside party not afflicted by an ultrarational engineer brain. That said...

In recent years, the US government has ramped up its training for federal employees on recognizing and interdicting human trafficking. It might suffice to tell the border agent, "I have been subjected to a forced marriage, and the man's family is attempting to import me to the United States against my will. Once here, I will be little more than a slave. But if I refuse, I will probably be murdered. Will you help me?"

This is likely to make a bad situation worse, but that's the best I can come up with. The lady is probably better off traveling to a Germanic or Scandinavian country and appealing to a feminist organization instead of getting on a plane to the US.

johnny635• 12 years ago

Now that's a passive aggressive way to solve issues...

Gracana• 12 years ago

Active aggression from a Pakistani wife in an arranged marriage may be imprudent.

tantaman• 12 years ago

Interesting story but I hope it doesn't spread. Would suck if her family sees this and figures out it is her.

vladimirralev• 12 years ago

Just fill out this form on entry http://www.usvisalawyers.co.uk/images/I-94form.gif with a lot of "Yes".

MichaelGG3• 12 years ago

If she's coming over to live, then she should be denied entry anyways. Perhaps just stay straight-out "I'm moving here." Maybe throw in something about maybe getting a job "To have more money for our family." Neither of those are total lies, but any CBP agent that's not asleep should block entry. She might even just tell them the situation, ask to see a supervisor and go from there. They may be able to provide something better on her record that way.

Although it can really depend on who she gets. My wife came over to see me after I moved to the US after just losing our daughter. She had a 10-year multi-entry visa, had come and gone several times before. They held her for a couple of hours, went through all her stuff (which is to be expected), but then demanded to know why she was sad about losing a child, why she had written about her child if she had died, and on and on. My wife decided she'll never fly through the US again.

Once I got an agent, first thing out of his mouth was "you're going to miss your flight". When I said he didn't know when it was (I had a 3 hour layover), he said it didn't matter, he'd make sure. Other times, they barely even glance up and wave me through.

turar• 12 years ago

When I said he didn't know when it was (I had a 3 hour layover), he said it didn't matter, he'd make sure.

Why did (s)he do that? Did you miss your flight?

MichaelGG3• 12 years ago

Every now and then, I get a CBP agent that is having a bad day. Most of the time they are professional, polite, and efficient enough. This guy went on about all sorts of things, including stating that attending a tradeshow required a work visa.

I didn't miss my flight because I had a long layover. He took my passport and sent me to secondary control. Upon admittance, one of the agents there rolled his eyes and speedily got me taken care of and on my way. He did succeed at wasting 40 minutes of my time though.

ef4• 12 years ago

I know better than to try to give advice when I can't relate at all to her situation.

But I would just like to take this opportunity to say "fuck you" to her relatives in the United States. Economic opportunity and personal liberty are a package deal, you want one without the other and you're playing with fire.

You're guaranteed to lose, either quickly or slowly. Quickly if this young woman continues down the path she's clearly already on and calls down the weight of the state on your heads. Slowly if you win this round, only to see your grandchildren grow up fully-Americanized.

rjzzleep• 12 years ago

uh ok, i tell you what. i grew up in germany, i'm highly educated, i speak fluent german without accent(you know like most people that were born in the us, speak english without an accent). in fact i speak 4 languages fluent+ a little of a couple others. everyone that had to deal with me on a personal level tried to hire me at some point.

when i came back from the states i met a buttload of people that were telling me how racist the americans are. so i asked one just a few days back.

"tell me, so everyones telling me how racist they are in the south, and it's kinda true, but how do you guys treat black people over here anyway?"

you know what she answered?

"it's different"

when i entered the train station with my bike yesterday, i almost got beaten up by security guards. you know why? because i got into the train station with a bike, and well just because ... ;) and you know what the two germans did that saw that? they told me this:

"you better run away, they might come down and beat you up"

talk about opportunity. yes, germany gives you the opportunity to study. for free. in some of the best universities of the planet. but you pay the price in a different manner.

you know how much the TSA sucks? you wanna know why you don't hear about patdowns in germany? because they're not even newsworthy.

edit: people make their choices, so what the op does is up to them. i consider it a little foolish. but on other hand think about it. it doesn't seem like she wants to get banned for life. otherwise she could have just posted some stupid thing on twitter like others have done

dTal2• 12 years ago

In my experience, most people that were born in the U.S. speak English with an atrocious accent.

sentenza• 12 years ago

I can second the police thing. My personal experience, as a German born Germanoid of the most German kind is that interactions with the police here are just horrible. I get selected "randomly" at every traffic stop because of my long hair, but all the short-haired people I know get pulled over maybe once in ten years.

The black thing, however, does not represent all of Germany. There are real regional differences here, mostly an east-west divide. (Not that it couldn't happen everywhere. Assholes are omnipresent, but the density varies.)

Also, younger people tend to be a lot more cosmopolitan and relaxed around fellow dwellers with "non-standard" appearance.

Edit: Another thing regarding the Bahnhof incident: The DB stormtroopers are "special" in the sense that I am actually scared of these people. Where do they even get that kind of hooligan? The regular police listens to reason and treats you with a modicum of respect, but these DB goons are basically bouncers in uniform.

grdvnl• 12 years ago

One other option worth considering:

1. Loose your passport 2. Get a new passport 3. Apply for new US visa to keep parents happy 4. Get rejected at the visa office

Just avoids re-entry, and buys time may be till she is done with her college.

etanazir• 12 years ago

Be careful not to fall down into one of the sex slave pits that bespeckle western civilization.

htns2• 12 years ago

All her problems boil down to a lack of money. She should just take a student loan to become "financially independent". No idea if she has access to one though

Pitarou3• 12 years ago

No. It's not that simple.

Of course, money can solve a lot of problems, but if she openly defies and (in their eyes) dishonours her family, she can expect retaliation. And they will use the people she loves and cares about the most to get at her.

htns2• 12 years ago

She is fully expecting to dishonor her family in the near future, just not before they have paid for her college.

alexeisadeski3• 12 years ago

Every single piece of advice amongst the top comments over there is straight up idiotic.

spc476• 12 years ago

I'm surprised no one came up with the "NO-FLY" list excuse. If she goes to the airport alone, that's trivial---she goes to the airport, waits an hour, comes back and says, "I was refused because I am on the US' no-fly list." The US does not confirm nor deny any name on the list, so it's hard to check.

How to intentionally get denied entry into the United States?

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