Ubuntu Edge

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge

by ergo14 • 13 years ago

1188 378 13 years ago

ealexhudson4• 13 years ago

I upvoted this because I think it's an interesting experiment. Attempting to raise $1M+ every day for a month, though, I think is insanely ambitious. Asking people for $830 for a device that they won't get for a year is asking a lot, particularly since the specs aren't worlds away from current phones (two years time, and probably $500 would get you a device with those specs, unlocked).

Worse, I just don't even get the use case. If I have to dock it with stuff to make it work, that means I need some kind of installation. Spending more money just so I can carry my PC around instead of having at home on a desk - hm, really not sure about that. People who use their mobile as a primary device tend not to have any sort of desktop, and I don't really get the impression they miss it that much.

dkokelley2• 13 years ago

I'm wondering if the ambitious goal of $32M is part of their strategy. Given that a higher goal is less likely to be met, I (and others who might consider backing) may be willing to adjust our risk function for the $600-800 such that we are more likely to back the project. Assuming that after 30 days only $20M is raised, then the outcome is as follows:

1: Nobody is actually charged for supporting the project

2: Other interested parties (phone manufacturers and carriers) will see that there is demand for a phone that doesn't even exist yet. These interested parties might consider reaching this market to differentiate from the current phone OS leaders.

3: Canonical still gets to see their OS in smartphones.

Maybe I'm reaching at straws. I do believe them when they say that manufacturing at scale is expensive.

ealexhudson4• 13 years ago

Yeah, it's quite possible they realise how unlikely the target is, and it could just be a way of attempting to demonstrate the market (given $830 is likely at one end of the bell-curve, it's a potentially interesting data point).

I find it a bit baffling. I refuse to believe Canonical want to enter the hardware market, but maybe there is a Nexus-like role for this hardware in terms of getting the ODMs to up their game. But, as a way of testing the market, I don't understand it. The FirefoxOS approach is much more appropriate, tbh, and if anything they need volume (which is going to come from the lower end of the market) not quality.

bryanlarsen2• 13 years ago

I would have backed based on this theory if it was a Kickstarter project. Kickstarter uses Amazon and doesn't charge until the end of the drive. Indiegogo uses Paypal, and charges immediately, giving a refund if the drive fails. While both of these differences aren't quite showstoppers, they're enough that I didn't pull the trigger on something that seems highly unlikely to succeed. I wouldn't mind paying $600 for this thing if it actually happened, but I would mind having $600 sitting around in my rarely used paypal account.

achiang11• 13 years ago

Manufacturing is expensive.

The vast majority of the $32M goes simply to manufacturing. The remainder covers taxes, fees, shipping, certification, and returns.

It does not cover the cost of the development team's time.

dubcanada2• 13 years ago

One of the reasons they went with IndieGoGo vs KickStarter is probably that they know they may not reach $32M. So they'll take what they can (IndieGogo gives you what you make, vs kickstarter that you need to make more then you request in order to get it) and do what they can.

As far as I am concerned they may have just typed in a random number in the millions as people like goals.

mobbom• 13 years ago

While this is possible with IndieGoGo, they selected to only receive funds if the project is fully funded. This is detailed under the "Contribute now" button.

kklimonda4• 13 years ago

It is a Fixed Funding project so if they don't gather the entire sum it won't get funded.

DocG6• 13 years ago

The first paragraph explains it.

let me quote: "In the car industry, Formula 1 provides a commercial testbed for cutting-edge technologies. The Ubuntu Edge project aims to do the same for the mobile phone industry -- to provide a low-volume, high-technology platform, crowdfunded by enthusiasts and mobile computing professionals. A pioneering project that accelerates the adoption of new technologies and drives them down into the mainstream."

It is not for you. If you want good phone, there are plenty out there to choose from.

formula 1 car is impossible to use in everyday life. It has really specific place where it excels. Edge is probably medicore phone and medicore pc, but it is probably really good at being both at the same time.

It is wrong approach to compare it to mobile users.

Edit: quote from comment section: "It's a premier, demonstration platform, not a mass market device." -achiang

jfb4• 13 years ago

It's an interesting project (not for me, personally, but hey, let a hundred flowers bloom and all that), but I think that they're overestimating the state of phone hardware commoditization, if they expect that they can pick and choose parts and hit their spec targets in less than a year. That seems insanely ambitious to me.

mtgx5• 13 years ago

They should try to get some carriers to put some money on that. They could buy hundreds or thousands at a time, if they want more diversity in their offering.

nobodysfool2• 13 years ago

There aren't much in the way of specs here. The screen will likely be 1024x768 or similar, seeing as how they say that they are shooting for around 300ppi in a 4.5in screen. The battery technology that they say they want is unproven, produced only in sample quantities, and has issues with the electrolyte expanding to 4x it's size (which they say will be fixed via carbon nanotubes, the latest 'magic pixie dust'). I am pretty sure they will have an announcement later on saying that they had to switch battery technologies in order to source what they need. For $800 it's quite expensive. I imagine they could easily just buy a bunch Galaxy S4s and offer that with Ubuntu as an option... that way they wouldn't have to deal with certification and all that jazz. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but seriously people need to think about this before just handing out their money. My bet is one year from now if you had given them your money, there will be better phones out that make this one seem like a joke. Compare what they are offering to the Galaxy S4, the S4 will definitely have a better screen, it's running at 1.9ghz (will 2.1 or whatever is the fastest make much of a difference? probably not). A better battery may be great, but the S4 has great battery life, which will last almost all day, good enough for most people. I'd be surprised if I don't see batteries explode on this device if they do manage to ship with the new technology (and expensive) battery. The ram may be the one reason to purchase the device, but it would be a lot less expensive just to ask any of the vendors on Alibaba to up the ram to 4gb (as long as you are ordering in large quantities).

devindotcom• 13 years ago

300ppi at 4.5in would probably be 720p - that's what the First and M4/One mini have at 4.3 in for something like 330 ppi. That would be m y guess anyway.

I'm more concerned with the promise of 4GB ram and 128GB storage. That's going to be very expensive. The highest end phones today cost more and half half or less of that. (I know, things get cheaper, but this isn't orders of 20 million, it's orders of 20,000)

morsch• 13 years ago

Here are the specs from the page -- were they added subsequently?

    Dual boot Ubuntu mobile OS and Android
    Fully integrated Ubuntu desktop PC when docked
    Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage
    4.5in 1,280 x 720 HD sapphire crystal display
    8mp low-light rear camera, 2mp front camera
    Dual-LTE, dual-band 802.11n Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4, NFC
    GPS, accelerometer, gyro, proximity sensor, compass, barometer
    Stereo speakers with HD audio, dual-mic recording, Active Noise Cancellation
    MHL connector, 3.5mm jack
    Silicon-anode Li-Ion battery
    64 x 9 x 124mm

grey-area6• 13 years ago

They've reached around $3.2m in their first day, so they're on track, though probably donations will slow down from now on till it nears the end. The price is pretty high, and this is not a mass market device in its current form - it's an interesting strategy to target the high end. Perhaps they see Apple as floundering in years to come, and want to take that slice of the market and work down?

It's interesting that you talk about some kind of installation. Everyone with a desktop PC already has such an installation, and many people with laptops have one too - a screen and keyboard for when they're at home, and a laptop which plugs in there, or can be separated and used independently. Works for me.

So I imagine the target market here is people who use laptops with a screen at home and would be happy with even more convenience and a smaller device to carry around. This probably isn't a realistic convergence device as it is so ambitious, at present it's more dream than reality, but one day we might all work this way.

I find it more attractive to have a hard local store of my data than the alternative of trusting cloud providers with all my data and working from thin clients.

tcoppi2• 13 years ago

They don't even have final specs nailed down, and they're trying to raise $32 million for a production run?

reactor4• 13 years ago

I think that’s why it is called an "experiment".

tcoppi2• 13 years ago

Except there isn't "experiment" anywhere on that page, it is being billed as a final, nearly-complete product.

sciurus2• 13 years ago

"If we don’t reach our target then we will focus only on commercially available handsets and there will not be an Ubuntu Edge."

That makes so much more sense to me that I'm having a hard time understanding why Canonical would even attempt to design and manufacture their own handset.

freehunter• 13 years ago

For the same reason Microsoft made the Surface and Google has the Nexus devices. "This is how it's done" sets a very strong precedence for OEMs to follow. Canonical can set the bar high right off the bat to avoid being like the first few years of Android phones.

vidarh3• 13 years ago

And this is going to be a shitload of cheap PR.

objclxt• 13 years ago

For the same reason Microsoft made the Surface and Google has the Nexus devices.

The Nexus handsets are basically third party handsets with some input from Google, but primarily engineered and built by the hardware partner (LG, Samsung, etc). It's not really comparable.

Microsoft do engineer and build the Surface themselves, but last time I checked they just took a $900 million loss on it. Hardly great stuff.

aram• 13 years ago

Dummy question:

"Dual LTE antennas"

Does this also mean double the radiation?

dkokelley2• 13 years ago

I think this means that the phone is equipped with antennas for different "LTE/4G" frequencies. This makes the phone work with different carriers throughout the world. The second antenna is for compatibility.

It's unlikely that the phone will spend power activating antennas that are not in use given the carrier/geographic standard, so my best guess is this: No. You will not see double the radiation.

(I could be completely wrong here, though. I'm not a cellular engineer by any standard.)

mtgx5• 13 years ago

No, it seems double MIMO antenna or something. There already are multiple LTE bands. Qualcomm's S800 will support 20 different ones, and they are planning for 40 in the future.

unsignedint• 13 years ago

This actually confused me, too.

I did preorder, now that hopefully it will work on T-mobile network. (Which uses somewhat oddball frequency...)

oscilloscope• 13 years ago

I want this. I already pay an Ubuntu premium for System76 computers. Anyone who has the Dell dev edition does the same.

But, Canonical, can you please extend the $600 price point for at least a month? This sudden 24 hour sale is too much of an impulse buy.

mcintyre19942• 13 years ago

Note that the entire campaign is about a month - 31 days to go. The $600 price has got to be an impulse one and get media attention right now.

BlackDeath3• 13 years ago

No kidding. It's always so tempting to jump in on these sort of "founder" things early, but $600 is not small change...

Danieru2• 13 years ago

I bought it. If nothing this is the kind of innovation which makes me excited for computing and I want to support that.

Best case the phone will arrive just in time to replace my Nexus4. Common case I get a refund. Worst case the thing is a dud, either poor build quality or under-performance.

From a high level Canonical has taken the right decisions to avoid the worst case. Being a high end device there is plenty of margin for a good case. The System on Chip is off the shelf so perforamnce only depends on the software. If Ubuntu is too heavy for mobiles then I can revert to android. The high fund threashhold means the phone will have the volume for factory production.

Before my Nexus 4 I had a N900. The N900 was the closest thing yet to a linux computer in your pocket. I loved it, you could tell engineers developed the N900 as a phone for engineers by engineers. This Ubuntu Edge looks like a true spiritual successor.

jonrx• 13 years ago

I don't know how viable a crowd-funding campain can be for a smartphone.

1 year until delivery seems fair for the makers, but unfortunately the competition will during this time release new devices with better specs.

Looks cool though. Reminds me physically of the Motorola DROID RAZR.

justincormack• 13 years ago

Fairphone hit their target; they haven't shipped yet but it looks good. http://www.fairphone.com

crawrey• 13 years ago

Props for mentioning Fairphone! I can't wait to get mine in October.

Ubuntu Edge does look good though, mostly because it should be a viable hybrid Mobile/Desktop replacement. While I won't be supporting it, I do hope it goes ahead.

sz4kerto• 13 years ago

Wow, lot of marketing speech from a platform targeted for geeks.

BTW: sapphire crystal is extremely heavy and shatter-prone compared to GG3, for example. There's a reason Corning makes so much money.

mcintyre19942• 13 years ago

I don't get the impression that Ubuntu is targeted for geeks, that non-geek marketing speech has been there for a long time.

drcode• 13 years ago

Does anyone really still want a phone you can plug into a monitor? This would have been a dream product back before broadband and wifi became ubiquitous, and before extra PCs became so cheap.

Nowadays, it seems like a much better design is to have multiple devices with different form factors that can access shared data via a cloud.

(unless this product is meant as an NSA-proof system, but I don't see that it makes a very convincing product for that use case either...)

sciurus2• 13 years ago

Oh, absolutely. I'd love to have a phone that I can use as a phone, insert into a "laptop dock" (like what the motorola atrix had) and use as a laptop, and insert into a more traditional docking station (to which I've attached a large monitor, ethernet, etc) so I can use it as a desktop.

I'd much prefer to have a single trusted device than spread my digital life across "a cloud".

fpgeek2• 13 years ago

Exactly. Even with most of my stuff in the Google cloud, the cognitive overhead of going from my Note 2 to my Nexus 7 to my "real" laptop and (recently) to my Chromebook is annoying. I'd much rather have one device set up with all my stuff that automagically turns into the form factor I want, when I want it.

ludoo2• 13 years ago

You can already do that: HDMI output, Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

BHSPitMonkey• 13 years ago

But that doesn't let you run "desktop" software (e.g. LibreOffice, Inkscape/GIMP, a browser with proper keyboard shortcuts, a development environment (!) -- still a much different ball game than mobile apps.

orillian• 13 years ago

The cloud is cool but your putting your data, and for many people that means their livelyhoods in the hands of strangers.

Personal Cloud is a better option.

I personally would be more than happy to own a single device that I could take with me and still know I had all the computing power I needed, without the bulk of a desktop or even a small laptop.

Monitor and keyboard at home, one at the office, phone in my pocket all backed up and synced in my personal private cloud.

Zigurd3• 13 years ago

A phone, or better still a tablet, on which I could run Ubuntu dual-screen would be a winner with me. I could have a light tablet for meetings and document-creation and a portable development environment with a portable external monitor.

emehrkay• 13 years ago

If Adobe were to put creative suite or there were a real viable alternative to it, Id use this phone as my main web dev machine.

rocky1138• 13 years ago

I'd love that. The biggest problem for me is that I have a number of monitors and laptops that don't support HDMI. If there was a sub $10 adapter I could get for VGA->HDMI<-VGA then it would be a perfect world.

DocG6• 13 years ago

Luckily this is still a year in the future. It is good amount of time for a)sub $10 adapter to appear b)you might change your hardware for unrelated purpouse c)you might change your hardware for this purpouse over the course of the year for monitors that support vga+hdmi(or DVI+cheap adapter)

macspoofing• 13 years ago

The biggest problem for me is that I have a number of monitors and laptops that don't support HDMI

That's not a problem for anybody else. It's practically a non-issue.

rhp• 13 years ago

It's an idea that might be a little ahead of its time yet, but I think the potential is there for tomorrow's phones to drive every aspect of our digital lives.

The little geek in me that wants to live in the Jetsons' future is going to be pretty disappointed if, 5+ years from now, I'm not unplugging my phone from a dock at home and plugging it in to one at work to meet all my computing needs.

vidarh3• 13 years ago

yes, of course I want that, for the reason that accessing shared data via a cloud is ludicrously slow, unreliable, fraught with security concerns, and doesn't bring application state with it.

I "work around" application state to a great extent with Xmarks (lets me open remote tabs) and screen, but it's a kludge compared to always having my main computing device in my pocket, ready to connect to any screen and keyboard to just keep working. Imagine hotels offering HDMI input to TV's + a keyboard so I don't have to use my "small" 17" laptop screen. Or internet cafees where I can "bring my own machine" with all my own applications and data.

I don't see how multiple devices is a "much better design" when we're always carrying one device around with us anyway. It's incredibly wasteful. Devices augmenting it with additional functionality, sure.

The only things holding back the smartphone as "the one" main computing device for most people is performance and capacity. Of course there will always be a need for more powerful machines for some niches, an there'll always be a need for e.g. laptop shells (and for "real" laptops too).

But for an increasing number of users, the power of a smartphone is rapidly exceeding what they need from a laptop or desktop computer, and then it becomes increasingly appealing to springing for a higher capacity smartphone if it can double as our main computer "just" with the addition of a "laptop shell" or screen + keyboard.

Keep in mind the PC desktop and laptop market has stagnated - average prices are low because the typical non-Mac PC user opts for low end models because they no longer see a need for the performance bump of the higher end models.

The performance a typical PC user wants, and the performance possible with mobile technology will soon intersect.

jt21902• 13 years ago

Instead ask: Since everyone's already carrying around a very powerful processor and lots of memory, why should they carry around a second processor and memory just to work on a large screen?

zbinga• 13 years ago

Yes. I will be very happy to carry not only my data (as I do now) but my whole computer in my pocket, plug it into a keyboard and monitor at home and at work, and use the built-in screen (and perhaps a foldable bluetooth keyboard) elsewhere.

I know about the cloud. I distrust the cloud. The cloud is not for me.

jfb4• 13 years ago

Oh, absolutely. I want to carry my data around with me, and access it via whatever the best interface at the moment is -- when I'm driving, when I'm walking around, when I'm at my desk. This phone isn't for me, but I can definitely see the appeal.

sublimit3• 13 years ago

Haha oh wow. They're charging hundreds of dollars to add a free OS into a smartphone. And they expect to get 32 million just for the promise. Someone lock these people up before they do some real damage.

rlpb7• 13 years ago

It looks like the money is for building the hardware too, not just the software.

sublimit3• 13 years ago

That's no excuse for an $800 price tag. It just means they're charging customers for their bad decisions (as in not using others' hardware).

shock4• 13 years ago

I would downvote you if I could. I'm pretty tired of seeing snark like this and thinking how many people get discouraged of trying something new and bold for fear it would be met with an attitude like yours. Piss off.

sublimit3• 13 years ago

Except it's not "new and bold", it's literally Ubuntu on a smartphone for far above the market price. Add some marketing buzzwords about how it will revolutionize computing and people start seeing clothes on the emperor.

boothead• 13 years ago

$32 million? Well they mention formula 1, are they bootstrapping a new team maybe?

aroman• 13 years ago

I really really hope I'm wrong (because I really believe in Ubuntu's vision), but what I'm gathering from this is that Canonical really has no idea how to make money.

RockyMcNuts4• 13 years ago

I'm gathering that the handset makers and carriers and VCs laughed them out of the office, so they had to go this route.

I would have expected to read something like, the phone is an enhanced version of x/y/z with these features, we got a great deal from (manufacturer), but we need 50,000 pre-orders to proceed.

shmerl12• 13 years ago

I guess they just didn't find investors. Jolla managed to do it because they have expertise and accumulated knowledge in the field. Canonical don't have that.

rlpb7• 13 years ago

I'm gathering that the handset makers and carriers and VCs laughed them out of the office, so they had to go this route.

From the FAQ:

"If we don’t reach our target then we will focus only on commercially available handsets and there will not be an Ubuntu Edge."

I don't think this supports your assumption.

achiang11• 13 years ago

Ubuntu Edge is orthogonal to existing commercial discussions with OEMs and operators.

It's a premier, demonstration platform, not a mass market device.

shmerl12• 13 years ago

+1. I'd rephrase it - they are newcomers with no experience in the filed of making hardware.

slgeorge4• 13 years ago

You're mixing up the objective of putting Ubuntu onto a mass-market phone with a special platform aimed at developers and technology enthusiasts. We (Canonical) have extensive experience working with major technology companies in the PC market. But, Ubuntu Edge isn't aimed at that area - it's about getting great technology into the hands of power-users and developers as early as possible.

shmerl12• 13 years ago

Is it going to use normal glibc EGL drivers for GPU, or it will use bionic ones with libhybris?

kklimonda4• 13 years ago

bionic with libhybris

shmerl12• 13 years ago

Not exciting then. More interesting would be to crowdfund glibc drivers.

ludoo2• 13 years ago

32 million dollars? 830$ for a device, when high end MTK based phones cost max 300 (Zopo, THL, etc.) on the European market, and less than that in China?

They haven't got a clue... Why don't they start making working ROMs for existing phones. If they targeted a few existing high end phones and the ubiquitous and cheap MT6589 models (quad core, many with full HD screens) they might have a better chance of starting to spread their OS and intriguing users and developers.

wmf3• 13 years ago

High end and Mediatek are a contradiction. They're probably looking at something like a Snapdradon 900.

ChuckMcM• 13 years ago

Pretty ambitious. Presumably they are not going to build the phone, they will do like Google and Apple and Microsoft did and find someone who is already building phones, to build them a bespoke phone. One then wonders how many units you have to commit to buying for LG to spin a variant of the Nexus 4 for you. Certainly its more than 100K phones, which gets you into the 'best' price for components (some vendors of phone parts (like some of the flash chips) won't talk to you unless you order 100K pieces).

Clearly there is a value proposition to having knowledge about all the bits in the phone, but as I discovered with the Android phones, working at Google, there are some bits which are protected in a variety of ways (basically most of the radios in phones these days are all software and that blob (the stuff that makes the radio 'work') is strictly licensed. It was, for me at least, an unexpected additional cost for the radio stuff. (I imagine that business model started with soft modems where the line access chips were $1 and the code to turn them into a 56Kbit modem was another $9 each).

Regardless of outcome, this will join a number of attempts at making a Linux phone. I wonder if anyone has collected all of the attempts into a single space.

shmerl12• 13 years ago

Using crowdfunding wastes a huge part of the raised money on taxes. It looks like a sign of Canonical not being able to find investors. Jolla for example did, and I take it as a sign of maturity and expertise in the field.

slgeorge4• 13 years ago

Seriously, how exactly does crowdfunding 'waste' more money than buying something - you have to pay taxes of everything you buy anyway. You can at best argue that it's a 'waste' if we don't hit the target and no phone is produced.

The reality is that the Phone industry isn't incentivised to build products like Ubuntu Edge. It's a limited run, high-end product rather than mass-volume. In that context coming up with interesting ideas and then testing whether there's interest with crowdfunding is completely appropriate.

ps I work for Canonical so obviously I'm biased.

shmerl12• 13 years ago

Seriously, how exactly does crowdfunding 'waste' more money than buying something - you have to pay taxes of everything you buy anyway.

Unless I misunderstood something, crowdfunding (in current form) has low effective outcome, since it's taxed as presales (which axes the raised funds significantly). I think it's a bit weird, since in essence this is fundraising, and not presales, but this how it works for some reason. Investment doesn't work the same way, and the input can be used for the intended purpose much more effectively.

Zigurd3• 13 years ago

I would like to like this, but there are some red flags: It seems like they are engineering their own high-end hardware. Are there really no off-the-shelf platforms for this? No ODMs from which they could order 10k units, including the GPU driver license?

Supposing they could get 10k units for $500 each, that means they could ask for $1M or $2m and be far more certain of hitting their goal. Why not do that?

It seems as if they are trying to fund development of Ubuntu for phones on the back of this hardware project. Or, unlike Jolla and Tizen and Firefox OS they lack launch partners, so they are doing a "Microsoft Surface." Maybe the $900M write-down of Surface hardware made them think $32M is a doddle.

Ubuntu should run nicely on Surface RT hardware... They could make an offer.

xanderstrike2• 13 years ago

This was my thinking. The whole time through that video I was wondering why they don't just buy a couple thousand Nexus 4s to load up with their custom build and re-sell. If they're planning to put Ubuntu on other manufacturers hardware, the official Google supported phone sounds like a pretty good place to start, and the speed at which those phones sell would be a great way to test the interest in their new platform. Hell, I'd buy it even at a $100 markup ($400), I'd buy it with little hesitation just to get some hands on time with the OS.

Impulse buying a $600 handset that won't arrive for a year (if they hit deadlines, which doesn't happen), is asking for far too much trust.

Putting it on Surface RT hardware would be a dream. I don't like Unity for my desktop, but if I was looking for a 10" tablet I'd be all over it.

achiang11• 13 years ago

Reselling someone else's developer phone from last year isn't exactly the marketing message we're going for. Edge is meant to be a premium product, not just another "me too".

Unrelated: if you simply want to test drive Ubuntu for Phones, it's already been ported to 40+ platforms.

oblique633• 13 years ago

Are there really no off-the-shelf platforms for this?

From what I gather, it seems the entire purpose of this 'edge' project is a hardware one, not a software one. They're trying to gather the 'latest and greatest' hardware and make a phone out of it, which would by definition, not be found in an existing handset. I'm sure they'll try to push for their mobile os regardless of whether this fails or not, as it seems almost orthogonal to their mobile os efforts. Once they evaluate how feasible this 'cutting edge' handset idea is, I'm sure they'll continue to find devices to slap ubuntu touch on. But if they've had this 'premium phone' idea kicking around for a while, why not? This isn't an either/or scenario.

ealexhudson4• 13 years ago

It will be interesting to find out how many real hardware people have had input on this. As an example, the battery is going to be "silicon-anode" - I didn't even know that was a thing, and Google only turns up weeks/months old articles on how researchers are trying to make them out of rice. Yet they're going to stick it in a phone.

If each hardware choice has been made like that, there's a huge risk with the project. If the battery doesn't come up to snuff mAh-wise, how long will that 4G RAM / beautiful screen / 128Gb SSD actually last day-to-day, including phone calls?

There doesn't really seem to be much information about the people doing the hardware, and why they think they can stuff so much new stuff into a small package in the space of a few months.

vidarh3• 13 years ago

Also because they want a phone that is also suitable to be someones main computing device. So if they can get smartphone hardware makers a reason to push into higher spec'ed devices by demonstrating a market and providing a blueprint, that'd be a big win for them as it creates a bigger need for Ubuntu vs. "just" Android or alternatives.

reactor4• 13 years ago

Reached 100+ K in an hour!!!

ealexhudson4• 13 years ago

They have to average $42K an hour for the next month for this to work. That realistically means they need to pull in a few million in the first few days.

keithpeter• 13 years ago

I wonder how many of us are going to watch the site for a few days, track the average hourly funding rate, then decide if we want to commit based on the likelihood of the round being successful? Sort of Victor Vroom outcome motivation.

socceroos9• 13 years ago

At the moment, they're averaging $53K every 15 minutes. I know it's the initial rush, but it does look promising.

oblio• 13 years ago

~400+ K in 2 hours. The start is definitely good, we'll have to see if they keep it up.

cs702• 13 years ago

The $32 million fundraising goal might seem overly ambitious, but it's actually more realistic than it appears at first glance, because at $600+ per unit the campaign needs only around 50,000 buyers worldwide to be successful -- or a bit over 2% of Ubuntu's enthusiastic user base, which was estimated to be greater than 20 million in 2011.[1]

PS. I just ordered one, as I LOVE the idea of an unlocked phone designed and built from the ground up by Canonical specifically for Ubuntu users, with minimal interference from wireless carriers.

Update: When I posted this comment, the total raised was under $50,000. Less than an hour later, it had risen to over half a million dollars.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)#Inst...

grey-area6• 13 years ago

I've ordered one too, because I really like the sound of a Phone OS based on Ubuntu, not controlled by the likes of Google and Apple, and with a UI based on HTML. The proposed UI and demo apps look nice, I like the idea of losing the chrome as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO7QbCqFY7Y

It's going up quite fast, from 167k to 198k as I finish writing this, but I'm not sure if they'll make their target, just because the phone and OS are such an unknown quantity. I hope they will - and if Pebble can raise $10 Million, then they do have a chance, even if it is a slim one.

lewtds• 13 years ago

The UI is not based on HTML, it's QML. It's a GUI declaration language similar to XAML from MS. The whole QML described UI is an accelerated OpenGL scene backed by Qt technology so the performance should be much higher than that of HTML5.

vog3• 13 years ago

based on Ubuntu, not controlled by the likes of Google and Apple, and with a UI based on HTML

If you don't insist on the "Ubuntu" part, FirefoxOS offers everything you want, and is available on various devices right now:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/

mrt0mat0• 13 years ago

i have to wonder how many ubuntu users are using ubuntu simply for the cost of owning it ($0). If that group is high, which i think it is, it may imply that a lot of those same users, might not want to put money into a project. Speculation.

threedaymonk• 13 years ago

Do you have any basis for thinking that? I ask because my perception is that the cost of OS is effectively zero for almost all computer users: Windows or Mac OS comes free* with the computer.

* Free and bundled together at a sharply discounted cost (or the cost of R&D in Apple's case) to the manufacturer aren't exactly the same, but that's not apparent to the purchaser.

mtgx5• 13 years ago

I think your speculation is quite wrong. Linux users are typically the highest payers for games, on average.

Shorel2• 13 years ago

Find how many Steam subscribers are running Ubuntu and buying games, and subtract that number from the total estimated Ubuntu users.

Count me in the 'buys games' lot.

DocG6• 13 years ago

If you are in a country, where people can't afford MS products, then they usually don't give two damns about legal issues(because there are none). All hail the pirates, because pirating is the norm.

Source: From country where pirated windows used to be norm. Still is in ethical standpoint. Only OS bundled with computers has changed that.

jamespcole2• 13 years ago

I don't use Ubuntu because I'm cheap, I use it because it's the best tool for the job. I think in general Ubuntu users are going to be developers(read have expendable income to spend on gadgets). I think making a play for the high end is the smart move, create a device everyone wants and aspires to own and they will sell themselves. Also if your main market is developers(as I'm assuming it is for the Edge) then you need to blow them away with a beautifully designed high end device to get them to buy it and then start developing the app ecosystem.

jtome2• 13 years ago

Keep on mind alot of this enthusiastic userbase is in the third world or too young to afford it.

slgeorge4• 13 years ago

One of the things that's interesting about the phone industry is that in general there's no equivalent of the special tech-focused PC platforms. So Ubuntu Edge is a way to unlock both a new software platform (Ubuntu phone) but also to bring forward a set of hardware technologies that won't be in the mainstream for a while.

It's a really high target caused by how expensive these platforms are to manufacture. But if we can get enough interest it will allow us to bring a great new phone to market!

ps I work for Canonical so should be considered a bit biased ;-)

weisser• 13 years ago

Thanks for doing this campaign! It takes courage to post a goal like that.

I'd much rather give you $600 than pay AT&T and others for the "privilege" of an unlocked phone. I'm happy to have gotten my pledge in and look forward to many exciting updates :)

voltagex_4• 13 years ago

Do you think I'll be able to get one of these phones after the campaign is done? I can't do $630 right now (IndieGogo is debit-immediately, rather than Kickstarter's debit-when-successful).

asdfs• 13 years ago

but also to bring forward a set of hardware technologies that won't be in the mainstream for a while.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not seeing anything on the Indiegogo page that isn't more or less on track to be available in phones next year, except for perhaps the sapphire.

miga• 13 years ago

They seem to aim for the high end, but on the other hand it seems still difficult to provide all-around desktop platform without Intel/AMD instruction set.

But if it is ARM and it still works, then it would still be a nice office platform.

rikacomet• 13 years ago

32,000,000... I missed a zero, first few times I read it.

If they make it, I will give a damn about Death Star not getting funded :P

kenferry2• 13 years ago

"Although our core business is software for PCs and the cloud, we know the phone industry pretty well too."

"We’ve scoured the research labs of the biggest companies and most exciting startups for the latest and greatest mobile technologies to specify the first-generation Edge."

Do the people involved actually have hardware experience? That's not clear to me, and the second passage gives the impression of treating a phone as a collection of parts.

32 mil is a pretty risky first project…

grey-area6• 13 years ago

I imagine they'll contract out the manufacture - they'll be collaborating with a manufacturer who makes phones presumably - they say the manufacturer is in Taiwan, but don't specify who.

The features they list are pretty standard on a high-end smartphone for next year, though perhaps not usually seen together.

achiang11• 13 years ago

Yes, we have collective centuries of hardware experience.

No, we do not think a phone is a collection of parts.

kenferry2• 13 years ago

Good to hear!

nnash• 13 years ago

I really think they're overestimating who they perceive their target audience to be. 830USD is more than an unlocked iPhone 5...

socceroos9• 13 years ago

I think you'll find that, with due respect, this will kick an iPhone 5's ass around the neighbourhood and back by the time it's released (pending funding success). Not least because it will have better specifications.

rimantas• 13 years ago

Specs don't make the phone. Original iPhone with lousy specs still would kick some modern Android phones asses in smooth-scrolling department.

pavs• 13 years ago

I think this is excellent marketing, if they get funded, they will prove that there is a market for this and it will make news for being the biggest crowd funded campaign ever. It will be all over the news and even people who have never heard of ubuntu will take a notice.

buro92• 13 years ago

This is the opposite of what I want.

What I want is a hub device along the lines of a Huawei Mifi device that will share a 4g connection with numerous other devices using a low power hardware and software stack, perhaps the latest Bluetooth.

Then I want my phone to be less powerful, to run most apps on the cloud and generally do little more than render things prettily.

I want camera lenses, display surfaces, input devices (keyboard, pen/stylus, augmented reality glasses, headsets, etc) to all mesh together, sharing bandwidth for intra-device communication... and ultimately all using the hub for communication.

I no longer want large and ever more powerful and feature rich phones or computers, I want to smash things up and have a choice of small bits that each do one thing very well.

Basically Star Trek communication device and then a lot of peripherals.

jessaustin2• 13 years ago

This is what the market will produce, eventually, after it has tried everything else, but especially everything that acts to lock consumers into long-term deals with the 2.5 remaining wireless carriers.

(Actually if this constellation of devices is mesh-like enough in architecture, the 4g modem won't be particularly special either: you'll keep it in your pocket, never look at it, and it will only be used [automatically, seamlessly] when wifi or its successors aren't available.)

jamii• 13 years ago

How about a Bug Block from http://buglabs.net/ and a pile of Zigbee sensors from http://www.zigbeesensors.co.uk/

buro92• 13 years ago

This was a strange post for me... just in the voting history.

It was upvoted like crazy, then downvoted like crazy, then upvoted again, and downvoted again.

It's come out very neutral, barely +1 or 0 now, but at the same time it's the most downvoted post I've ever made.

What is so objectionable about the post that merited the quantity of downvotes? And were the upvotes because other people agreed with the idea and also want this?

mromanuk• 13 years ago

"For a phone to run a full desktop OS, it must have the raw power of a PC. We’ll choose the fastest available multi-core processor, at least 4GB of RAM and a massive 128GB of storage"

I would love to be wrong but I'm not buying the promise of a (real world functioning) PC on a phone. ARM based chips are 1 order of magnitude slower than a desktop x86 counterpart, currently there is no such processor to perform as desktop. Maybe they are going the intel road, anyway the indiegogo pitch sounds more like wishful thinking than a real plan.

achiang11• 13 years ago

My team dogfoods Ubuntu for Android every single day on the Nexus 4, and I'll say that it's performant enough to be a daily driver as a desktop replacement.

Edge has 4GB of RAM planned, and will run even better than the N4.

michaelbuddy• 13 years ago

hows the camera for you? I use the n4 with android and the camera digital blur / tearing is pretty annoying. did you get around that or not use the camera much?

gnur• 13 years ago

Is this available somewhere public?

drdaeman• 13 years ago

full desktop OS

Maemo (full-fledged Debian-based mobile distro, now dead, thanks Elop) user here.

Is Ubuntu Phone really running a full-fledged desktop-as-we-know-it GNU/Linux-derived distro? Because, after I heard about bionic+libhybris stuff and some chroot kludges I start highly doubt it. It's as "Ubuntu desktop" as chrooted Ubuntu install on Android, except for more optimized (compared to VNC-to-localhost, huh) video pipeline.

My perception is that it's neither typical-GNU neither Android but something partially (in)compatible to both.

Would be really nice if I'm wrong on this matter.

fingerprinter3• 13 years ago

Your "wrong", but only b/c the container flip happened recently. They had the Android chroot thing to get going quickly, from what I can gather.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-July/037...

Ubuntu Touch is fully Ubuntu and can take advantage of all that goodness.

shurane• 13 years ago

Macbook Airs aren't as powerful as desktop Mac Pros, but they offer a great convenience to the owners. It's "good enough" for most things. I see the Ubuntu Edge as a similar device.

javis• 13 years ago

If the Ubuntu Edge reaches its goal of $32,000,000, Indiegogo makes $1,280,000 off it.

jessaustin2• 13 years ago

Wow. Does this include PayPal's cut?

bnr• 13 years ago

PayPal takes 2,9 to 3,9% plus a base transaction fee[0], so their share of the pie would be at least $928000.

[0] https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

audeyisaacs• 13 years ago

I wonder why they wouldn't just set up their own crowdfunding page for this project. Surely the effort would be worth $1,280,000.

raphman• 13 years ago

Maybe they got a special deal.

hacker789• 13 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if Indiegogo offered Canonical incentives to use their platform, and I wouldn't be surprised if those incentives include a significant reduction in fees.

For the next 30 days, the Indiegogo brand will be mentioned nearly every time Ubuntu Edge is discussed. That publicity alone is worth something.

But if this campaign somehow succeeds, Indiegogo will receive more than just another dose of (outrageously positive) publicity—they'll be forever known as the platform used to launched Ubuntu Edge.

zombio• 13 years ago

People are more likely to contribute if it's on a platform they trust and recognize.

fingerprinter3• 13 years ago

From nearly every perspective, this seems like a no brainer.

1. The hardware they talked about would be better than anything out there now, most likely better than anything in 2014.

2. They mentioned dual boot. If you don't like Ubuntu, you can put on Android and have a better phone than anything out in the next year.

3. You'll get the first Ubuntu production phone.

For $600 (today) or $830 (not today?) this is a freakin' no brainer.

jkldotio• 13 years ago

If the hardware is open I expect you would be able to put the Firefox mobile OS on there as well.

mrdl2287• 13 years ago

Maybe you will be able to dual-boot with Firefox mobile OS as well.

tjdetwiler2• 13 years ago

I disagree with (1)... that will probably be average hardware for 2014 (for high end devices because lets face it, all high end devices have roughly the same specs).

You make a lot of assumptions with (2) as well. Given Canonical has 0 experience in putting out HW I wouldn't assume a top notch product since details like build quality and materials are important.

(3) would be a negative for me... you would get the slowest, least power efficient, and most app-baron experience.

I agree it's a no brainer though... PASS! $830 is way too much for me to beta test their product for them.

fingerprinter3• 13 years ago

You think 4 gigs of ram, sapphire display and 128gb ssd are going to be the norm in 2014? Not very likely. That would be just about double the Samsung S4 right now. I don't think it is very likely for 2014. 2015, maybe though.

And I don't think Canonical is going to build the phone but work with someone to do it.

(3) would be a negative for me... you would get the slowest, least power efficient, and most app-baron experience.

Do you have any data to back that up?

And don't forget that Android had very few apps when first launched. Very few. At least an Ubuntu phone will be able to run all the standard Ubuntu apps, and in converged mode, you'll get all the desktop apps as well, which is awesome.

richardking• 13 years ago

all this is just words on paper right now- a competent marketing team can make any product sound amazing/indispensible. tack on the standard kickstarter/indiegogo delays, and this feels like as far from a no brainer as can be.

i don't see how you could trust any company, let alone a company making their first phone, with $600/$830 before seeing and playing with the software OR the hardware.

runn1ng• 13 years ago

I am not the right person for this, I guess.

I constantly break my phones by smashing them (by mistake) into various solid things or water, so I never buy any phone more expensive than 200 dollars. I really won't buy a phone for 830 dollars.

sukuriant2• 13 years ago

sapphire screen. I am in love with the idea of a sapphire screen. It's the same material as higher end watches, and those don't get scratches. I wonder how that affects its strength under dropping.

umsm4• 13 years ago

The hardness doesn't mean that it won't break or crack. The only difference is that in low-impact situations it won't scratch as easily.

alexose• 13 years ago

I ordered one, but there's absolutely no way this is going to crack 10 million, let alone 32.

pieterhg• 13 years ago

I have not been this enthusiastic about a product since the introduction of the iPhone, iPad or Google Maps and I'm not even a Linux-fanboy.

I love how they are pursuing convergence of desktop and mobile, I haven't seen anyone try this successfully yet.

mtgx5• 13 years ago

It would be great if it came straight with the 64-bit ARMv8 architecture (a quad core Cortex A57 chip, I suppose), although that would mean being released in 2nd half of 2014, but they should probably wait until they can put Ubuntu 14.10 (Mir-only) or at least Ubuntu 14.04 LTS anyway. Coming with stock Android 5.0 or 5.1 would be great, too.

Why no 802.11ac Wi-Fi though? By then pretty much all high-end devices should have it (HTC One and Galaxy S4 already have it).

AndrewGaspar• 13 years ago

Is it just me, or does it seem like Canonical is taking all of their design cues from Microsoft at this point? Ubuntu's mobile OS uses all the same kind of edge swipes that Windows 8 uses and this phone looks like a small Surface.

nivla• 13 years ago

At this point, everyone in the mobile OS, whether it be Android, iOS or Windows Phone is "inspiring" something from one another. I am just glad there are new competitions in the mobile space along with the fact that they are encouraging HTML5 apps.

socceroos9• 13 years ago

If you've been following the phone industry for a while you'll realise this isn't all design cues from Microsoft. You'll find a lot more in common with Nokia's N9 than WP8.

bshanks• 13 years ago

I would have preordered it if it had a physical QWERTY keyboard.

codezero• 13 years ago

$600 is a lot to go all-in on a phone that won't hit the market until May 2014. The specs look great, but who knows what will happen in 6-8 months.

greganon2• 13 years ago

As a successful crowdfunder myself, I almost cringed when I saw how many "rules" this campaign was breaking. Extremely high fundraising goal, long video, and almost no compelling reward options for people who love the idea but don't have $600 to spend. However, I think they've done at excellent job of understanding their target market. They know that early adopter/open source community relishes cutting edge hardware and a chance at becoming a consumer test group for the next step in mobile computing.

Additionally, they explain their thought processes around how they will choose the display and camera specs, which is much more powerful than explaining what the specs will be. I truly feel like I am funding an intelligent group of decision makers rather than a large scale manufacturing process.

I can't wait to see the results of the campaign and to hopefully have one of these phones in my hand!

legierski• 13 years ago

is it possible to download this "Ubuntu for Android" application that they are showcasing in the Software video, running on Nexus 4? Can't find anything about it...

nissimk• 13 years ago

Not according to this:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/307054/is-ubuntu-for-android-...

achiang11• 13 years ago

Sorry, it's not available for public download at this time.

umsm4• 13 years ago

I love this concept, but I can't help but think:

If apple releases the next iphone with an hdmi compatible connection, that would eliminate the benefit of this, no?

shock4• 13 years ago

You don't get a full desktop OS (Mac OS X) when you dock the iPhone. I assume that's what you mean, your comment was a little unclear.

umsm4• 13 years ago

I am imagining a layout similar to an ipad, just for a larger monitor. Apple is slowly moving their desktop OS to a mobile-like experience.

rsynnott3• 13 years ago

The iPhone does support HDMI out via an adaptor, and has since the iPhone 4 (though screen mirroring only showed up on the 4S; the 4's video out was just for apps that supported it). Various Android devices do, too.

mariusmg• 13 years ago

Regarding the desktop side....hardware wise we're not there yet but personally i'm convinced that this is the future (maybe in 5-10 years if Intel and AMD keep it up ? ). Single device which will be desktop, phone, game console, ebook reader etc.

lettergram2• 13 years ago

The price for one of the phones doesn't seem all that outrageous, I know if you wanted to buy a Samsung Galaxy S4 it's like $700 without a contract.

Being a college student I currently can't afford it, but I up voted and hope it works out. In the future I would love to buy a phone like this, it looks awesome.

mindprince• 13 years ago

In just 4 hours, it is at $703,945. Already the 9th most funded project on Indiegogo.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects?filter_country=CTRY_US&fil...

harel• 13 years ago

I was just talking about me wanting a mobile device I can call my phone and my laptop at the same breath. Something I can take in my pocket and hook up to a keyboard/monitor setup when needed.

skizm• 13 years ago

Can I hook this up to my Verizon account (which I currently still have unlimited data on)?

hayksaakian• 13 years ago

Can I assume this won't work on Verizon?

achiang11• 13 years ago

We are not currently planning on supporting CDMA.

dakimov• 13 years ago

What a talentless useless bullshit.

shock4• 13 years ago

So don't buy it :) Better yet, don't waste another moment thinking about it!

mwcampbell2• 13 years ago

I thought about backing this myself, but then I remembered that it's our propensity as developers to get the best hardware for ourselves that leads to resource-hungry software, which means a poor experience for the less fortunate of our users. In that light, it seems to me that a super-high-end phone like this, particularly one aimed at developers, is obscene. So I won't be buying one of these. Indeed, I'm thinking of deliberately buying a low-end Android phone whenever I eventually decide to switch from my iPhone 4.

GoNB• 13 years ago

I own a low-powered Android phone and iPhone 3GS for testing, but my normal phone is an IP5. Old phones can be had very cheaply on Craigslist or Ebay. You don't have to make your everyday phone use a nightmare.

bbrks• 13 years ago

I have a low end Android phone (Galaxy Ace) and it's painfully slow to use. It won't even keep up with me typing in the Messages app, let alone browsing the web or using any apps.

So much so that all I use my phone for (besides the occasional call) is to enable wireless tethering and use my iPod Touch as my primary device instead.

mbesto• 13 years ago

I only have one question - battery life? This is the only thing that matters if it becomes a hinderance, and the only thing that doesn't matter if it's not.

larkarvin• 13 years ago

We have the same question, they did not mention anything about battery life. I'm not sure about the video, I don't have my sound card installed on my office workstation. If this could last as 5 hrs for an Ubuntu Desktop, I'll buy one.

achiang11• 13 years ago

We assume it will be plugged into AC when in desktop mode.

lelf• 13 years ago

This is all cool of course. But will it last more than 2 hours on one charge?

falcolas• 13 years ago

I love crowd funding, and this seems like a great project. But please, before you pledge money, remember one thing:

This is not a pre-order: nothing guarantees that you will ever get anything for the money you've put in.

By pledging money, you become an underprivileged investor. Sometimes, you'll get your money's worth. Sometimes, you'll loose that money. If that's OK by you, then great. If you want a stronger guarantee of getting what you pay for, then this is not the platform to use.

jt21902• 13 years ago

I agree. I wish they'd added a "who is our ideal backer" section to the page, to help people really decide if they're up to the risks of backing this.

achiang11• 13 years ago

Nice suggestion. I'll bring it up with the team.

Off the cuff though, I'd say the ideal backer is someone excited about open platforms that push the boundary of what we think of computing today.

Arjan and team[1] proved that a 5-second boot on a laptop is a qualitatively different device. When your laptop boots in 5 seconds, you use it differently than one that boots in 10s or 30s. It becomes more device-ish and less computer-ish.

Analogously, I'd say that a single device that has a touch interface for mobility and a keyboard/mouse for desktop productivity is a new category of computing, and user software will need to adapt to the new possibilities opened up by the innovation we're doing in the foundational plumbing layers.

Looking at computing around us today, my observation is that we're asymptotically trying to achieve this vision by nibbling away at the branches, but not attacking the root.

exhibit a) iPad + bluetooth keyboard. lighter and more portable than a laptop but no one uses it as a phone so you still need 2 devices.

exhibit b) Samsung Galaxy Note, the phablet category. I've seen lots of people with these in Korea, but not so much in the States. Actually, walking around the Mission in SF, I've seen more Google Glass than people using Notes. Not sure what to make of that anecdata, but I think phablets are just too large. I use Strava on my phone when I run; I sure wouldn't want to strap on a Note.

exhibit c) Dropbox, one view of your files everywhere. This sidesteps the device problem, but the paradigm is still 'sync'. I'd prefer to just 'have' (and use the cloud for 'backup' or 'extend'). Plus, editing office docs or writing code on today's mobile devices is still going to be painful.

exhibit d) dumb/feature phones; OLPC. The bottom several billion people in the world don't have access to traditional computers[2], but they do have feature phones today. It's not unimaginable to think that they could just skip laptops and go straight to smartphones. It would be nice if these smartphones were enabled to provide a "productivity personality". Teaching a new generation of programmers will be a lot easier if they had keyboards and mice.

Maybe there will never be a one-size-fits-everyone-all-of-the-time device, but to me, the industry trends are pretty clear and one-size-fits-a-hell-of-a-lot is pretty darn good.

If those ideas excite you, then you are the ideal backer for Ubuntu Edge.

/ac, speaking only for myself and not Canonical

1: http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/

2: pre-emptively agree that the 'bottom billion' don't have easy access to enough calories or clean water either, but I don't subscribe to solving those problems in serial

socceroos9• 13 years ago

It's worth noting that you don't lose your money if the funding fails - it will get refunded to you.

lukifer2• 13 years ago

I think they're referring to the case where the funding succeeds. As a non-proud Esquiso owner (who doesn't regret the gamble), I can testify that hardware is hard.

That said, my money's on these guys to pull it off. My only concern is quality control and support/maintenance.

ldng2• 13 years ago

Wait a second ... 32 millions ...rings a bell. Isn't that current Canonical debt ?

ensmotko• 13 years ago

"they may still be $7millionGBP from being insolvent" source: http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/05/is-canonical-ltd-finan...

socceroos9• 13 years ago

LinuxAdvocates...

I wouldn't advise using that guy as a source of reliable information.

For far more balanced views that aren't pro-Ubuntu (necessarily) it would be more advisable to visit a site like The Var Guy.

dangoor2• 13 years ago

Interesting that 27 people have opted to pay the $830 today, rather than the $600 that they could have paid.

cschmidt• 13 years ago

I feel kind of bad for them. They really should convert these people with poor reading skills to the $600 price.

lambda• 13 years ago

Why do you think they have poor reading skills? Perhaps they wanted to throw in a little extra, but not the next tier up at $10,000.

Remember, you can donate at any level you want. If someone donated $1000, they would probably chose the $830 option to give more people a chance to get the $600 option.

Remember, you shouldn't think of Kickstarter or Indiegogo projects as a pre-order. It's a donation to a project that you think is worthy; where you may get a substantial reward if that project goes well.

laxatives• 13 years ago

Am I the only one not using paypal for large purchases? I came home just to verify my paypal account (required for purchases over $500 and needs a check to get the routing info), but it takes 2-3 days to complete the process. I would love to support this project, but it doesn't look the logistics of it are going to work out for me. edit: Just got off the phone and my account was actually restricted for some reason. I'm in for one at the $600 rate.

robjh• 13 years ago

I didn't have a paypal account before last night. After signing up I found the payment gateway quite broken (paypal have sent me several emails now saying i have successfully added a card ending in 0000). So now I have £800 floating around somewhere in cyberspace, accounts on two websites that I don't care to give any business to and most key to the issue; no pledge to this project.

Screw Paypal!

gcr• 13 years ago

How does this compare to Mozilla's Firefox OS? Are both phones similarly "open source" in terms of hardware and software?

jamesbrennan• 13 years ago

I wonder what 'Fastest multi-core CPU' actually equates to. Has anyone found technical specifications that include a more specific value than 'fastest'?

wmf3• 13 years ago

The fact that they don't provide details probably means that the processor hasn't been announced yet. Presumably it will be faster than a Snapdragon MSM8974. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7082/snapdragon-800-msm8974-pe...

scholia8• 13 years ago

Yesterday, Shuttleworth said the processor hadn't been chosen yet.

lucb1e• 13 years ago

Forget gorilla glass, we have crystal!

I liked that part

Jhsto• 13 years ago

Any idea does this also ship from UK? That's a big difference for Europeans since else we have to pay for the high import taxes (24% here).

jwarkentin• 13 years ago

I love the convergence thing. I've been predicting and hoping that things would get to a point where I could just have one device that I use for home, work, and everything. Canonical is making it happen and I will do anything I can to support it and be a part of it!

kub• 13 years ago

The 4.5" 1280x720 screen kills it.

It needs to have at least 5" 1920x1080 to display 1080p content without destroying information and to match or exceed the HTC One and Samsung Galaxy S4 (and S5 since they ship in 2014).

And preferably non-Pentile AMOLED.

And also removable battery and one or more SD/micro-SD slots.

It's a pity since everything else seems great.

lbenes2• 13 years ago

Wow, I expected better from people on HN. I suppose you are also one of those smug people with a 20 megapixel point and shoot who thinks it takes better pictures than my 12MP DSLR. Well I have news for you buddy. It doesn't and your 1080p pentile S4 looks no better playing movies than the Nexus 4, when held at a comfortable distance. In our house we have both a N4 and S4, and I'll take the N4 any time.

I'm no Ubuntu fan boy, but on this point, Shuttleworth is absolutely correct. 1080p buys you nothing, but costs valuable battery life and requires a much more powerful GPU to get the same performance.

Synaesthesia2• 13 years ago

Yes Mark has the right approach here, the colour rendition/accuracy of the iPhone 5 really makes it the best looking display I've seen. And I can't see the pixels - no need for higher res than that.

ubersync• 13 years ago

Am I missing something? How is this phone any different from say Google Nexus 4, or Samsung Galaxy S4? E.g. Google Nexus 4 has almost the same specs other than RAM, Storage and Dual LTE. But it is only for $300.

More specifically, how does the Formula 1 analogy fit in? This phone is priced about the same as iPhone, Samsung Galaxy and has almost the same specs.

seabrookmx3• 13 years ago

It isn't. The F1 analogy is horrible IMO.

This thread is full of fanboys.

What's cool is that it will be the first available device where users can test an Ubuntu smartphone that can be used as an Ubuntu PC when docked. They've been showing this off for years but as far as I know it hasn't hit any actual devices.

socceroos9• 13 years ago

You consider double the RAM, double the storage space, the fastest CPU available by HW sign-off, sapphire crystal and full metal uni-body to be 'almost the same specs'?

I must admit, I do like the look of this phone and I've followed Canonical for years now - but please, lets be realistic on both sides here - these specs are not 'almost the same'. They're not even close.

tele_throwaway• 13 years ago

More importantly: 37 people decided they wanted to pay $230 extra?

sneak• 13 years ago

Man, that guy needs to spend some of his money on a body language coach.

ericfranklin• 13 years ago

"We'll replace glass with sapphire crystal. A material so hard, you'll need diamonds in your pocket to leave a scratch"

I got a laugh from this because the back of my iPhone 4 had a few big scratches in it literally from carrying diamonds in my pocket (My company sells lab-grown diamonds).

izietto• 13 years ago

Why not 1920x1080??? WHYYYYYYYY?????

ender89• 13 years ago

It sounds like it will only be available to people who support the crowdfunding. I'd love to buy one, but I'm on CDMA at the moment and committing to buying a phone 9 months out seems a bit idiotic, especially when you consider that I'd have to switch service providers before I can even use it. I think I would buy the phone (I love the concept) but its not something I can commit to so far in advance, even if it means missing out entirely.

fdm• 13 years ago

We also believe the race for ever higher resolution has become a distraction. Beyond 300ppi you’re adding overhead rather than improving display clarity.

This isn't completely true, higher PPI improves readability (and looks) of the text that's written using more complex characters like Chinese Hanzi or Japanese Kanji even beyond that line at smaller distances. Here's an image that illustrates this:

http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/2011/1-toshibab...

Not to mention it's useful for displaying 1080p without losing information.

lbenes2• 13 years ago

I don't read Chinese on my phone, but I do care about gaming and battery life. In both those cases, an equivalent 720p phone will outperform a 1080p phone. Shuttleworth is making the right trade-off in this case.

txutxu2• 13 years ago

So how this works... ?

I fund, then Amazon tracks what I search by default on my machine ?

Or I fund and you FIGHT AGAINST a project maintained by voluntary people ?

OK, I 'll NOT fund you.

txutxu2• 13 years ago

I see down votes in this comment I did.

Sorry if someone did feel offended.

I did feel offended by Cannonical seeking my funds, and I've my personal reasons to not fund them.

Maybe I did not express it the best way, but anyway it's my personal opinion.

I could fund them if I could make them sign a contract, about what and how is going to be done. I don't trust them, and what I did say in that comment it's just 2 little examples.

quackerhacker• 13 years ago

I'm so happy Canonical is pushing this innovation. As soon as I heard about their initial attempt in mobile OS on a Atrix, I knew this is where computing had to be going.

That phone's design looks so slick too!

girvo• 13 years ago

To start with, I was skeptical. 32mil? But, I watched the video, and realised that Ubuntu are trying to achieve what I've always dreamed of and asked for: an enthusiasts phone at the cutting edge.

I've backed it. I hope that this is the future of mass produced electronics.

narzac• 13 years ago

I admire this effort. However what we need is a fully free phone (Hardware schematics, source code). I am really disturbed about all that network connection, GPS yet so little transparency.

Have you ever seen a movie, where the rogue agent does not take out and destroy the phone, like it is a devil work :P

Any knowledge on hardware schematics, source code, license issues?

tomphoolery• 13 years ago

Well that's fucking awesome.

But uhh...doesn't Canonical already have money? :P

pekk• 13 years ago

There is a limit to how much money one can waste while remaining wealthy.

rsynnott3• 13 years ago

at least 4GB of RAM

This seems... odd, or the 'at least' bit does. The first 64bit ARM chips are due late next year, and will be very much server-targeted.

ricardobeat• 13 years ago

You're thinking AMD?

Current ARM processors already support up to 1TB of RAM via something called "Large Physical Address Extension".

rsynnott3• 13 years ago

Eek, yes, forgot about that. PAE comes back from the grave, to annoy people!

ohaal• 13 years ago

This has been a dream of mine for several years now, and I believe Ubuntu (with Touch coming around) is currently the OS best suited for this task. However I do have some concerns which still go unanswered. Until then, I'm holding back my pledge.

1: I realize this is their first attempt at this, but if this phone doesn't support 2+ monitors, then this simply won't work as a desktop replacement. HDMI-output is nothing new. Who still uses a single monitor on their desktop?

2: I didn't find any mention of docks. I'd be interested to see if there would be any future plans to create different types of docks. I.e. tablet dock with extended battery life (like the Asus PadFone), desktop dock with 2+ 1080p+ monitor output. Preferably with the docks allowing USB connections, so that we are not stuck with buying new gear all around. Maybe even a laptop style dock?

3: Context awareness. Not sure if this is already addressed, but it'd be nice if when I docked it at work, I'd have the option of continuing where I left off yesterday. Achievable through profiles combined with some NFC cleverness? Personally, I can think of a few contexts I'd set up myself: desktop@work, desktop@home, laptop, tablet, HTPC, nightstand, car... and of course, phone.

4: Waterproof. If I'm going to walk around with my personal computer in my pocket, it'd be nice if a splash of water didn't kill it.

bobbles• 13 years ago

IF it supports wireless game controllers as well (even when docked), theres no reason this couldnt just replace an 'ouya' style device when you want to use the lounge room as well.

primelens2• 13 years ago

Canonical really seems to believe in the convergence of multiple computing platforms. They've staked a lot on it and ticked off a lot of people in the process. I don't know if it'll succeed, but I sure love seeing them try with such gusto. Succeed or fail, this sort of choice and innovation (not to mention debate)is what makes the FOSS community so interesting.

cupcake-unicorn• 13 years ago

I'm kind of torn about this. While I would like to see more diversity in the phone world, I wish that the focus this time was more on the open hardware and specifications. If Ubuntu is pushing this phone tied to the Ubuntu OS, they're really not that much different than what Apple and MS are doing with their mobile devices.

I'm assuming and hoping that if this launches, the hardware and software will be open enough for people to start making their own OSes. It's just unfortunate, and I feel in a way backwards thinking, to make this Kickstarter with such a huge funding goal and not have the focus be on why it's important and why it stands apart - which is I believe the open standards for hardware and software.

I'm just not a big fan of Ubuntu as an OS, and I'd love to have a phone that was so open that I had as many options in distros as I do on the desktop. I'd much rather see a Kickstarter for a completely open hardware phone that encouraged people to be creative with both the hardware and the software, which I don't think this project is going to promote other than an afterthought.

davidbanham• 13 years ago

I want to hook this up to an Oculus Rift.

gummydude• 13 years ago

God's phone

BenoitEssiambre• 13 years ago

I think this is a preview of things to come on other mobile OSs in the same way the openMoko open source phone was a harbinger of the first iPhone.

This Ubuntu prototype phone shows that the technology is ready for good phone/desktop integration. You can be sure Google and Apple are working on their own version of this and probably doing it with much more resources. Microsoft's attempt at convergence was premature and resulted in two OSs that superficially look the same but aren't really integrated.

I do think Ubuntu has much more chances of succeeding than openMoko ever had.

This indiegogo approach is a smart and bold strategy that could bring higher level of development resources than open source projects are usually able to get. Open source is good for getting a great community and great ideas together but often the thin margins and low barrier for competitors means we don't get the level of investment necessary to bring the polish, documentation and support necessary for mass appeal. A kickstarter/indiegogo approach could help with this under-investment issue.

Will it be enough? As a longtime Ubuntu desktop user, I can only hope.

vonskippy• 13 years ago

Shuttleworth has a 2012 net worth of $500 Million USD plus - yet he wants the common Ubuntu fanboy to fund his latest project?

Um....no.

scholia8• 13 years ago

He's shopping for customers

chaselee• 13 years ago

Money well spent that it was.

dschiptsov• 13 years ago

Something must be wrong here.) If it such a good idea, then there will be a long queue of big shot investors, like that one before the Apple store.

It seems that Canonical have only good concepts, but not a world-class engineering team (like Google's) to make it real.

infinii• 13 years ago

Currently they are at $3.2M which is only 10% of their target. Yet the $600 level is sold out. If they had removed the cap on $600 orders, I could see this getting funded. But not if they expect the bulk of their money to come in at the $830 level.

Casc2• 13 years ago

A bit late to the party on this post -

I think the next shift we see in mobile will be anointing the phone as the arbiter of identity vs the current situation in which our desktop / laptop OS user loosely holds the title.

I've previously expressed affinity for a future in which a device (smartphone) becomes a wallet for saving state, identity, data & applications all served by an OS that adapts based on operating environments while maintaining familiar UI/UX. This is the closest implementation I've yet to see (smart phone driving extensions and adapting to its environment by allowing full desktop OS), and I hope funding comes through just so we can inch a bit closer to making this reality.

Dropbox / cloud storage / iCloud have taken great strides in reducing the friction involved in types of device to device transitions, but we're still not truly mobile, and I'm not convinced they're the solution as opposed to being supplementary. Saving state, using your phone as identity, and carrying your data & applications with you is, what I believe, the next iteration of mobile.

Whether this information transfer is accomplished by associating devices together via the lan, a physical connection, or what have you, I feel there needs to be a physical badge component in transferring identity, and the smartphone may be it. A two factor auth of sorts for your digital self between your smartphone and a 'dumber' device.

Consider the possibilities in cars; no more fighting that quirky car UI to get directions or search through a music library. Parental controls ensuring new drivers don't drive at extreme speeds or attempt to text while driving. Abolishing keys. All possible when you have a portable device equipped with identity attributes working in conjunction with other devices and their input extensions.

28.8mm to go!

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4094318

http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/28/apple-patent-would-use-the-...

Mexxer• 13 years ago

Sorry but I don't want any electronical mobile devices as my physical identity badge which includes my whole life. The dangers of that far outweigh the conviniences. You just wouldn't be able to stay anonymous anymore and everything about you would be up for grab by the government or some hackers. Also just imagine when your phone gets stolen. Your whole life in the hands of a stranger.

Casc2• 13 years ago

Unfortunately, this is already the case. For instance, your mac address is a pretty good identifier probing AP's periodically wherever you go, 99% of smartphone owners aren't even aware, let alone know to turn off WiFi if they don't want to be tracked.. If my phone fell into the wrong hands today, my whole life IS at their disposal.

With education and advancement of proper security measures I believe these concerns can be mitigated and benefits would outweigh the risks. Transferring information is still too cumbersome, in order for us to progress, this is going to have to become a reality at some point.

rlpb7• 13 years ago

I think that the smartphone will eventually evolve into a (hopefully optional) implant.

Those who don't like this may choose not to carry one (by leaving it at home, for example), or have multiple ones (or multiple VMs).

mongol• 13 years ago

Is it realistic to deliver the phone at this time frame, given the vagueness of the specs? My only crowdfunding experience (Pebble) was not pleasant in it's long delays, and they gave the impression of being closer to production than Ubuntu Edge. Also, what previous experience does Ubuntu have of hardware design and manufacturing. I also realize that they can source this, like from Taiwan as they mention, but they still need to be significantly involved.

My prediction is that backing will slow considerably now when the lower backing price point has closed.

thomasjames• 13 years ago

The missing bit that stands out is the processor. They seem to have all of the peripheral hardware fairly well specified, but the power consumption and final dimensions, etc. are strongly dependent on the processor they choose.

x0054• 13 years ago

I love the idea, but I simply do not see how they can make it work at this scale. Based on the numbers they will be ordering around 40,000 units. Can you really buy custom made components in small quantities and expect to get acceptable prices?

The only way I can see this working is if they partnered with a company who will be making this phone anyway, basically a phone that looks almost exactly like Ubuntu Edge. So basically they would start with maybe a $200 (to make) top of the line smartphone from one of the big manufacturers, and then spend $600 upgrading it with sapphire lens, fastest ARM CPU, 4GB ram and all the SSD memory. Here is the thing, I can see this working, because they can sell these phones at cost, or below cost, as an investment into the ecosystem. So, this might actually be a $800 phone that costs $800-900 to make.

However, I am worried about some of the unproven components like the sapphire lens and silicon-anode batteries. Can they find suppliers, and can they make it work in the phone. And will they have to recall all 40k of those phone when the battery expends to 4x the size or blows?

The problem to liking it with Formula 1 is, in F1, the engines, the cars, and all the other components are blown all the time, and then get rebuilt, tested, refined, and tested some more, by people who know what they are doing, not consumers.

I like the ambitious project, I just feel like they really need about 4x the budget or more to pull this of.

napoleoncomplex• 13 years ago

There might be some financial sense in backing this, whether you intend to use it or not. If it does not get funded, you get your money back. If it does get funded and made, you'll be an owner of a limited edition run of a beastly phone, whose resale value will probably be significantly higher than its current price.

marcamillion• 13 years ago

I know this may seem silly, but just reading this little copy below the 'Contribute Now' button...made me chuckle:

This campaign will only receive funds if at least $32,000,000 is raised by Wed 21 Aug 11:59PM PT.

Oh...just $32M. Even though I read the $32,000,000 above and as of this posting they have already raised $3.2M, I am accustomed to seeing "this campaign will only receive funds if at least $50,000" or some other reasonable figure is there. Almost feels like an April's Fools.

Alas...I hope they achieve it - if nothing else for the history they will create....and the shockwaves it will send through the VC community.

Every time a crowd-sourced project passes some psychological barrier - say $1M, $2M, $5M, $10M it makes people perk up.

If they pass $2^5M....that will send shockwaves.

tonyblundell• 13 years ago

I really like the idea of an Ubuntu phone, but the desktop thing is just weird.

I really can't see a use-case for it.

Aside from a drastic increase in the chances of dropping my entire computing resources in a toilet, or leaving them in a pub, usable desktops can be had for around £200.

And you still need a desk at home with a monitor, keyboard and mouse. At a time when people have largely ditched that idea in favour of a laptop or tablet form-factor.

The fact that it's on Indiegogo suggests they've tried to get commercial investors and failed because it's unmarketable, which is frustrating because I think a straight Ubuntu phone could really make an impact.

PavlovsCat• 13 years ago

I have an use-case, but I doubt it's very widespread: I always carry my DSLR around, and wouldn't mind a few extra pounds in the bag.. so instead of a phone, I'd rather see a small brick; not even meant to be held to your face ever, but used with a headset, and with plenty of USB ports on it.

I mean sure, phones will get as fast as desktops are today, but then a bigger computer will still be faster, and I would still have to do any heavy lifting on the desktop.

I don't do video myself, but even "just" processing photos and using Renoise requires more resources than I think even this thing can offer; basically, I have songs I can't work on unless the machine is at least as fast as my current desktop. The same would apply for doing stuff with WebGL: it doesn't have to be a gamer GPU, but it can't be a phone either. For me, that at best does for consuming, but not for creating. Especially since creating becomes more fun when it's more fluid, the minimum requirements don't cut it and more is better.

Even a mouse I have to lug around, and a foldable full keyboard, sound better than a laptop keyboard to me - I can't stand touchpads, or keys with 50 functions on them to save space. I could even get used to running around with a backpack if it meant I could have a real keyboard. And of course there's always internet cafes, which I would expect to offer a working spaces where you use your own computer, if stuff like this became reality.

ProblemFactory• 13 years ago

A phone that docks as a desktop Ubuntu would be perfect for my use case.

I use desktop computer (Mac Mini) in three locations, and I have bought spare keyboards, dual monitors and mice for all of these. My phone is already more powerful than the desktop. But even when I had a laptop, I never used it on the move - always plugging into docks with monitors and full-size keyboards.

It would be very convenient to have a single computer to set up and carry with me in a pocket, instead of having to either sync work and settings via "the cloud" all the time, or carry a backpack for the mini.

reirob• 13 years ago

Does the $830 perk include as well the docking station additionally to the phone? Or is it the phone alone?

tled• 13 years ago

Can I program, build and install app right on this device without the need of another machine(macbook, pc)?

stephensikes• 13 years ago

A few stats for the past hour (0900-1000 EDT, 23JUL):

$18,000 raised, $14,940 from Ubuntu Edge (18 handsets, 83% of total), 8 undisclosed donations

Translates to $432,000/day and $12,960,000 for the next 30 days.

eutropia• 13 years ago

Canonical, put Intel in this thing. 22nm Silvermont or 14nm silvermont will make this thing a beauty to behold. Reach out to your contacts within intel, because that will offer the performance you are looking for!

RRRA• 13 years ago

Interesting, but we'll need a faster selling rate, any friends? ;) http://movebits.net/2013/07/23/ubuntu-edge-funding-level/

codex• 13 years ago

The Edge is trying to solve a problem in hardware which is best left to software.

The problem: when you move between your devices, your apps look and act different, and they don't auto resume your state. But that's just because the software isn't mature yet. Eventually you will be able to compose a draft in Gmail online, unfinished, and the Gmail app on your smartphone will open to the draft automatically, and cloud apps will work the same everywhere--on the phone, on the desktop, and on the web.

And even if the apps are not completely identical, they will be good enough: I can switch from driving my car to a rental car without any issue; the interfaces to a car are fundamentally similar across all cars. So too with apps on various devices. It's just not a big deal. This is actually good for the Edge as most desktop displays do not support touch (and wouldn't work well if they did) so you'll still be shifting between touch and mouse, or touch and keyboard.

Solving this problem in hardware is sub-optimal: you'll always be fiddling around with monitor, keyboard, and mouse cables; your CPU, GPU, and RAM is limited; and your Internet connection will be slower from the phone than it would be had you plugged in to your 100Mbps+ cable connection from your cheap Ubuntu or Mac desktop.

Ubuntu Edge

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