Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

by grey-area • 13 years ago

1254 256 13 years ago

guardian.co.uk

icelancer5• 13 years ago

Time for the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate to strengthen international diplomacy and increase cooperation between peoples.

Create2• 13 years ago

Thorbjorn Jagland, said that members this year took a more practical approach in their unanimous vote for President Obama.

“It’s important for the committee to recognize people who are struggling and idealistic,” Mr. Jagland said in an interview after the prize was announced, “but we cannot do that every year. We must from time to time go into the realm of realpolitik. It is always a mix of idealism and realpolitik that can change the world.”

But Mr. Jagland seemed to savor the risk. He said no one could deny that “the international climate” had suddenly improved, and that Mr. Obama was the main reason.

Of the president’s future, he said: “There is great potential. But it depends on how the other political leaders respond. If they respond negatively, one might have to say he failed. But at least we want to embrace the message that he stands for.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/10/world/10oslo.html

msvan• 13 years ago

He's not gonna get the Nobel Peace Prize. Liu Xiaobo can get the prize because pissing off China is not controversial, but the Norwegians wouldn't do the same to the US.

icelancer5• 13 years ago

I'm referring to the winner from 2009.

jevinskie• 13 years ago

I have colleagues in the defense industry. There are many people who are aren't 100% on board with the ethics of their work but they do it because it is a well paying job. So, while the culture isn't entirely subservient to "orders", nobody really rocks the boat either. I am glad that Edward has the incredible courage that he has displayed!

milhous2• 13 years ago

Their bellies are full, but their spirit's empty. This is the state of our society.

selamattidur2• 13 years ago

Hong Kong as his safe harbor from the U.S. government. I wonder what Kim Dotcom would say about that.

gasull2• 13 years ago

Kim Dotcom's company was registered in Hong Kong, but Kim and his office were in New Zealand.

selamattidur2• 13 years ago

Yes and the raid of his company illustrates the high level of cooperation between HK and U.S. law enforcement, and that was only over movie downloads.

tomjen34• 13 years ago

There is a difference. China isn't too interested in a trade war over copyright infringement, but it is also an up-and comming world power, so they might decide that the propaganda win is big enough that they are going to keep him.

lizzard• 13 years ago

WOW. Thank you Edward Snowden. You are a hero, that is to say, a rarely decent human being. Deep respect to you.

grey-area3• 13 years ago

A fascinating interview with the NSA whistleblower, which ends with a chilling prediction of where the logic of manifest destiny and exceptionalism will lead the United States:

There will be a time where policies will change, because the only thing which restricts the activites of the surveillance state are policy, even our agreements with other sovereign governments; we consider that to be a stipulation of policy, rather than a stipulation of law. And because of that, a new leader will be elected, they'll flip the switch, say that because of the crisis, because of the dangers that we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power, and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. It will be turnkey tyranny.

- Edward Snowden

Some strong allegations here - that anyone is fair game for surveillance by the NSA, and that there is indiscriminate tapping of communications. Also some strong justifications for blowing the whistle on these activities.

A hero for our times.

CamperBob2• 13 years ago

Indeed. Snowden's decision, assuming we're getting the whole story, is what I call a true "Patriot Act."

riggins2• 13 years ago

and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. It will be turnkey tyranny.

you hit the key point. You don't need to be much of a student of history to know that at some point there's going to be someone who's all to willing to abuse these powers.

spodek• 13 years ago

"Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What they're doing" poses "an existential threat to democracy", he said."

Thoughtful people brave enough to blow whistles seem to be the greatest check on what looks like a secret, unaccountable, illegal centralization of power based on lies from the top of the government on down.

Many powerful people will see him otherwise. I shudder to think of what will become of him, though I'm sure we'll see it played out in headlines.

Whistle-blowers are not our only defense, however, as we all have power too, for example contributing to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF):

"His allegiance to internet freedom is reflected in the stickers on his laptop: "I support Online Rights: Electronic Frontier Foundation," reads one. Another hails the online organisation offering anonymity, the Tor Project."

My personal favorite is the Freedombox project: https://www.freedomboxfoundation.org/learn

EFF: https://www.eff.org

(By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information.)

EDIT: Followed up by posting the above on my blog -- http://joshuaspodek.com -- based on comments below.

gasull2• 13 years ago

"I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information."

I've thought the same thing many times. I think there is really no choice since I don't want to live under a dictatorship, and if I don't voice my opinion I keep thinking about it. So it's better to voice what you think, then go back to work. I feel like at least I'm doing my part.

rhizome6• 13 years ago

Foucault described one of the purposes of the Panopticon is to internalize the state's power to discipline and punish the individual. Evidence of this is seen in a restraint of expression due to its possible repercussions.

mindcrime2• 13 years ago

By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information.

I don't know about you, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. As far as I'm concerned, Edward Snowden is an American hero and deserves a medal and a ticker-tape parade before he deserves to spend the rest of his life on the run, and possibly ultimately in a jail cell, or having his life taken prematurely by US operatives.

I think he did the right thing though, by going public. Presumably he knew the odds that "they" would track him down anyway, and by going public he has a chance to leverage popular public sentiment as a shield of sorts. As he says, it's a tactic to keep them from "going dirty". He might still wind up in jail, but there's a better chance now that they'll have to deal with him through ordinary judicial means, and (hopefully) no torture, or secret imprisonment at Guantanamo or whatever.

Hopefully Iceland (or maybe Ecuador!) will grant him political asylum and give him a shot at a semi-normal life, albeit far from his original home.

Postscript: To any NSA / CIA / FBI / etc. spooks who are reading this - blow me.

Spearchucker• 13 years ago

As far as I'm concerned, Edward Snowden is an American hero...

He's a hero. Putting the word American in there is very, well, American. The NSA has done a lot worse by foreigners than Americans.

miles2• 13 years ago

"To any NSA / CIA / FBI / etc. spooks who are reading this - blow me."

It is easy to feel anger towards those we perceive as oppressors, but if this nascent movement (I hope it is a movement!) is to have any success, thoughts like these from Gandhi should not be forgotten:

Real noncooperation is noncooperation with evil and not with the evil doer.

Noncooperation is not a hymn of hate.

My noncooperation is with methods and systems, never with men.

hga• 13 years ago

Whatever your judgement about what to do is, the very fact that we have to start thinking about this is telling.

youngerdryas2• 13 years ago

This is how we achieve real change, by real heroes like mindcrime standing up and saying blow me. They are sure to fall.

__voidcast__• 13 years ago

I HOPE there is a NSA / CIA / FBI spook going through this...because this man and his courage should shake the rust off of people, who are in a position to witness the tyranny of those in power(just like our whistle-blower) and take a stand and start caring more about what is the right thing to do and not what everyone around them seems to be doing.

AJ007• 13 years ago

Support is not a one way street. There were a lot of Americans who thought Martin Luther King Jr posed a serious threat to the US. In that case, the status quo today can be a bigger problem for you tomorrow.

jamesaguilar• 13 years ago

I think it's almost certain the guy will have some problems not long in the future. One question that comes to mind is how a supposed intelligence organization allowed someone who subscribes to EFF thinking even come to know about this surveillance. Shouldn't the NSA be doing some kind of screening to make sure the people they hire don't have ideals diametrically opposed to their practices?

EthanHeilman4• 13 years ago

Try hiring 10,000 good CNE people with support of the EFF as a red flag. Who works in this field and doesn't support the EFF?

tome5• 13 years ago

It's weird. On the one hand he makes them sound all-knowing. On the other hand they sound completely incompetent.

laumars• 13 years ago

I'm fairly sure they will now be screening for that in the future.

toufka• 13 years ago

Almost an inevitable consequence of growing too large. You have to start hiring people farther and farther from your core. If you want to spy on everyone, you need everyone's help. But if even a single person isn't willing, you risk the entire endeavor.

Nrsolis2• 13 years ago

Uh, I think you're confusing "ideals" with "lawful behavior".

You can be a supporter of the EFF and believe that the work the NSA is doing is necessary and good for the country. I worked on Lawful Interception systems and I had no problem with their use as long as a COMPETENT COURT was the one regulating it.

rdtsc• 13 years ago

You see, there is an overlap amongst the qualities that would make one support EFF and also work for CIA -- and that is patriotism and devotion to their country.

CIA for example looks for devoted and patriotic people more than they look for capable people. They figure they can teach whatever is needed as a special internal course but they can't teach patriotism. So for example they love to hire ex Marines, they are considered patriotic.

Now patriotism is a double edged sword. It works well if the government and agencies are honest and transparent. Patriotic people working in such systems might accept a lower pay but they know they are helping their country. When that start to go south and they start seeing shady things going on they have a choice:

1) Rationalize participating in un-patriotic things (illegal search for ex)

2) Fight against it by leaving the agency or

3) Fight against it by going public and exposing it

Most people probably end up choosing 1). Few choose 2) and only select individuals choose 3).

e12e• 13 years ago

You're aware US Intelligence is behind the development of Tor, right?

I don't think the NSA views itself as a facilitator for "turnkey tyranny", just yet. If you think you're fighting for freedom, then why wouldn't you hire people that feel the same?

Maybe this whole thing will help wake people across all levels of the CIA and the NSA, and there just might be some actual change.

I know, I'm dreaming. But clearly I'm not the only one.

Create2• 13 years ago

Whenever Amira Hass tries to explain her vocation as a journalist, she recalls a seminal moment in her mother's life. Hannah Hass was being marched from a cattle train to the concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen on a summer's day in 1944. "She and the other women had been 10 days in the train from Yugoslavia. They were sick and some were dying. Then my mother saw these German women looking at the prisoners, just looking. This image became very formative in my upbringing, this despicable 'looking from the side'. It's as if I was there and saw it myself." Amira Hass stares at you through wire-framed glasses as she speaks, anxious to make sure you have understood the importance of the Jewish Holocaust in her life.

cema• 13 years ago

Amira Hass? Where is she referred to, in the article or comments?

dylangs10302• 13 years ago

Even the smallest men can cast great shadows.

The last paragraph of your comment expresses a fear that is rational, but one that we need to abandon as a community. If we are afraid to even post support for a controversial cause on the internet, then we are already lost.

We do not all need to be whistleblowers. We can champion liberty and freedom of privacy in our own ways. The first step is being brave enough to stand up for what is right, no matter who we are, no matter how apparently small our sphere of influence is.

The government should be at the mercy of the vox populi, not vice versa. It is our duty - our inalienable right - to support and rally for those who care more about the triumph of democracy and liberty than their own safety.

swombat• 13 years ago

My father (who grew up in Communist Romania) has been warning me about all the stuff I post online for over a decade now... and the reason I keep doing it is precisely that.

smoyer• 13 years ago

I'm willing to state my support for him too - in fact, I view him as a hero. I'm just a boring guy surfing the Internet. I'm more concerned with the overall erosion of our privacy than this specific incident. I'm certainly not a terrorist or even an anarchist, but my own government is slowly turning my sentiment against the country in which I was born and raised.

riggins2• 13 years ago

this is exactly what's so scary. people have to think about posting on Hacker News.

rooshdi• 13 years ago

We all have to die someday. Might as well die for something.

dnautics2• 13 years ago

there is also a network effect. The more people post support, the less likely that anyone posting support will get in trouble, AND the less likely it is that Snowden will wind up in trouble.

fnordfnordfnord• 13 years ago

I'm seriously concerned about the consequences...

Well, at the very least, don't bother sending your CV to Booz Allen Hamilton, Palantir, etc. Also, fuck these assholes. Seriously, is there anything worse than this?

spydum• 13 years ago

How else to change a companies ethics and culture if not from the inside?

1morepassword• 13 years ago

Yes. Violating peoples privacy for greed and profit alone.

But that would exclude a lot more companies, many of which employ a lot of regular HN-users. Anything can be rationalized for a paycheck.

And although I've managed to steer clear so far, I'm not claiming to be any better.

forgottenpaswrd• 13 years ago

"By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online. I don't know how things will play out years down the road and who will do what with this information."

Welcome to the land of the freedom in witch people is afraid of speaking their mind!

doktrin• 13 years ago

By the way, I don't know about anybody else, but for the first time I can think of, I'm seriously concerned about the consequences of posting support for somebody like this online.

It's telling, and terrifying, that this is a rational and common concern. Put plainly, it means we fear for the dissolution of our free society (yes, I believe we still live in one).

rhizome6• 13 years ago

Especially so when you see the oversight committee receive a bald-faced lie, where the leader of the Intelligence agencies lies to the American people by extension, since this is the only public oversight these programs receive.

http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/06/10/james-clapper-hails-sep...

nicolly2• 13 years ago

Here we are: http://edward-snowden-45th-president-of-the-united-states.co...

flexie• 13 years ago

Very brave kid. I hope he will not be tortured and imprisoned.

doe88• 13 years ago

He did something I'd honestly never have the courage to do if I were in his position. He knows he will certainly pay for his action the rest of his life but despite that he did it.

I'm not easily emotional but reading this article I had some heart bumps and wanted to cry. I'm speechless.

Thank You Edward Snowden for your act of heroism, the present will certainly condemn you but the history will certainly remind with honor people like you who made progress our currently deficient democracies.

grey-area3• 13 years ago

the present will certainly condamn you

I think that's really down to us, don't you? The US Government will certainly condemn his actions, but I doubt many of the public will.

rhizome6• 13 years ago

The smears are yet to come, which may be the dominant source of information "the public" receives on the topic.

sdoowpilihp2• 13 years ago

I would be shocked if information didn't come out about him that will "discredit" him. More over, I am sure there are laws that if don't flat out make leaks like this a crime, there are laws that can be interpreted in a way as to make a credible enough case against him. That would tie him up in court for years.

flyinRyan4• 13 years ago

Come on. Within six months, we're going to find out he raped someone or molested a child and needs to be extradited. Then people on this site are going to say "you're a bunch of conspiracy theorists. He raped that lady/kid and he needs to do the adult thing and go back to the US to face his charges. What is he so afraid of?". Watch it happen.

monkmartinez• 13 years ago

Words escape. The brilliant aspect to this is asymmetrical release of information. Keep this in the top news cycle as long as possible it seems. Think about what is going on at the White House and NSA right now. They've got to be thinking, "Shit, what are they going to release in the next 6 hours || 12 hours || tomorrow?" Everything they say in public will be cast against what is released in the future. F'ing Brilliant.

icelancer5• 13 years ago

Totally agreed. Greenwald has done a very good job of keeping this story "top of mind" as best he can. Hopefully there is more to come from his camp.

tomjen34• 13 years ago

I would say that hopefully there isn't more to reveal, from his point of view or anybody elses, but I do suspect you are, unfortunately, right.

mtgx3• 13 years ago

"Everything they say can, and will be used against them". I just hope they make a lot of mistakes and lie a lot in the media before they realize that, and by the time this is over their credibility will be zero, and someone gets impeached (from the FISA judges to the intelligence committee, and even the president).

By the way, I suggest you watch this guy's speech. It's pretty powerful, especially if you're an American:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etm4dHdaApo

I can only hope that's how all Americans are feeling right now, because that's needed if things are going to change.

_k• 13 years ago

He said he had access to other information. He didn't copy it. No way to know if that's correct. But the CIA is not gonna believe him so their next step is finding out what else Edward has. My guess is he has more and at least one other person is involved as a backup.

So what's next ?

The CIA will want to have a word with him before they decide what their next move will be because he's holding the cards and they don't know what they look like.

malandrew2• 13 years ago

I hope there is a steady stream of information to last months that becomes increasingly more damning, until not only the US public but governments all over the World start legislating against the use of any services and software produced by the US technology industry. I say this as a software developer in Silicon Valley. It is only when this escalates to the point of causing us specific and measurable economic harm that people will actually fight back against it.

Hopefully, both Snowden and Greenwald have put several dead man's switches into effect to ensure the continued leaking of information regardless of whatever attempts the intelligence community make against their lives or credibility.

I'm hoping that future leaked information includes accounts of wiretapping judges, economic espionage and wiretapping of legitimate pacifist activist groups. i.e. enough information to completely destroy the argument that this system is about catching terrorists.

mschuster91• 13 years ago

Truly, he deserves a Balls Of Steel award. I hope that that what is remaining of democracy in the US will be strengthened by his sacrifice.

yoster• 13 years ago

This guy did a very brave thing for us. Hopefully, nothing bad happens to him and his decision to not be anonymous is fucking insane...

tomjen34• 13 years ago

I don't think it is as insane as you might think. He is guessing that the government would figure out who it was that leaked the information and then they would come after him.

The original law was on incredibly shaky ground however and the goverment isn't likely to want this issue to end up in court ever, so they would have to either terminate him (the nine-milimeter kind of termination) or prosecute him for child porn or something like that, or disappear him. Right now his name is published everywhere so they can't really do any of these things.

rasengan0• 13 years ago

The price of freedom? About $3400 from Hong Kong, Hong Kong (HKG) to Reykjavik, Iceland (KEF) via Air China. If you work for the gov then the revolving door opens to corporate, where on earth is there a untouched welcoming place?

dylangs10302• 13 years ago

"I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

Exemplary. I am glad that men like he exist, bur I am genuinely fearful for his safety. Look what happened to Bradley Manning.

I think it was a good thing that he revealed his identity so as to speak with authority and be representative of the current events.

But I also believe it was done too early and too carelessly - the government now knows exactly where to look for the leak and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.

codehalo• 13 years ago

The "law" is standing on very weak foundation right now. It is those that enforce these laws who should be tried, not Edward Snowden.

tomjen34• 13 years ago

He would have to do that to protect himself. Nobody is going to take it seriously when they discover child porn on his computer, or he turns out to be a russian spy and he isn't going to rot in gitmo (or worse, the secret prisions we don't even know about but which most certainly exist somewhere, probably either in som eastern european country or in the middle-east). They will have to try him in the US, and they would have serious problems on their hands if they treat him like Bradley Mannning.

a3_nm• 13 years ago

I think it was a good thing that he revealed his identity so as to speak with authority and be representative of the current events.

I disagree. We have the technology to allow people to speak with authority and be representative with the protection of anonymacy (or pseudonimity). I find his courage admirable, but I still think it is a bit of a waste.

pdknsk2• 13 years ago

How likely is it he really is in HK, and not in some remote village in Thailand? I'd prefer the latter, but tell the former. If he actually is in HK, China might even offer him asylum and twist this in a huge propaganda victory.

notimetorelax• 13 years ago

I'm not sure Chine can use it for propaganda, I think there's no question if Chinese government records everyone's phone conversations.

pdknsk2• 13 years ago

Well of course they do, but it gives them a propaganda opportunity to appear as champions of free speech, "unlike the Americans who spy on their citizens". He would not accept asylum in China anyway.

toyg2• 13 years ago

Wasn't one of the PirateBay guys hiding in some godforsaken village, and one day he was quickly sold to Sweden by the local (not exactly champions-of-democracy) authorities?

HK is a strange land, but it's not lawless and has enough political peculiarities to be a good bet -- maybe not as good as Iceland (I don't understand why he didn't he go there in the first place, tbh) but one of the best. It certainly beats a windowless room in an Ecuadorean embassy.

brown9-27• 13 years ago

If he is actually in HK, he might be more of an inexperienced and naive idealist than anything else. Traveling to a territory with US extradition treaty and under Chinese control seems very unwise.

khuey3• 13 years ago

Actually it's probably not a bad move. China is one of the few countries in the world that would conceivably refuse to extradite him and protect him from retaliation.

I think it's telling that Hong Kong is not in any way, shape, or form on the way from Hawaii to Iceland.

DasIch• 13 years ago

China is one of the very few countries that has enough power, especially over the US, to be able not to cooperate if they don't want to and it is reasonable to expect that they might not.

Furthermore Hong Kong specifially is somewhat independent from China when it comes to oppression.

I also wouldn't be surprised, if a NSA analyst with that clearance level travelling to Iceland would raise a couple of red flags.

voidlogic4• 13 years ago

I was surprised he didn't do this interview from Iceland... I don't think he is going to find a non-stop flight from Hong Kong to Reykjavik without it being privately chartered...

RivieraKid• 13 years ago

If I was him, I'd move to Iceland.

lawdawg2• 13 years ago

Bravo Edward, and yet very little is said about PRISM at all. When will we finally get to the bottom of what PRISM actually is? When will the public get access to the entire set of slides? How much exactly did Edward know about PRISM, or did he just stumble onto these slides and assume the worst?

So many questions, so few answers. Hopefully the coming weeks sheds more light onto this.

brown9-27• 13 years ago

A lot of info is out there if you can sift through the breathless hyperbole: http://m.theweek.com/article.php?id=245360

mortehu5• 13 years ago

When will we finally get to the bottom of what PRISM actually is?

Is there any particular reason why you don't believe the fact sheet from the Director of National Intelligence[1] or Marc Ambinder[2]?

According to these sources (selected excerpts):

PRISM is not an undisclosed collection or data mining program.
PRISM is a kick-ass GUI that allows an analyst to look at, collate, monitor, and cross-check different data types provided to the NSA from internet companies located inside the United States.
All such information is obtained with FISA Court approval and with the knowledge of the provider based upon a written directive from the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence.

1. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8dPmI7DfkxMejNyazZYMl93dlk/...

2. http://theweek.com/article/index/245360/solving-the-mystery-...

lawdawg2• 13 years ago

No reason, but PRISM as explained in #1 doesn't seem like that big of a deal, or at least, not that much more shocking then what we already knew.

acqq2• 13 years ago

...and the FISA Court makes the blanket orders allowing the security organizations to have billions of collections in the U.S, see the output of the program made by NSA:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-in...

It is all "legal" in a sense that there are court orders, but there are no real checks as the orders are blanket ones.

Moreover, to read your mail older than 180 days from any provider according to the current laws they don't need any order at all to do it legally:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/04/fourth-amendment-em...

jdp232• 13 years ago

I don't believe the DNI because of his testimony to Congress in February claiming that the National Security Agency does not “wittingly” collect data on millions of Americans. We now know they've been collecting data for tens of millions of Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint/Nextel customers since 2006.

More recently he also claimed that PRISM wasn't a previous-disclosed data collection program. It hadn't been previously disclosed before; and it is collecting data.

So, let me turn this around. Is there any particular reason why you do believe him?

Marc Ambinder's article, by contrast, is quite believable. But going beyond the quote you pulled, he also has lists quite a few open questions about PRISM collecting data on US persons. So it seems to me that we're still a long way from the bottom.

mtgx3• 13 years ago

No, I do not believe him. He's lied before and committed perjury. Why should I believe him now?

tome5• 13 years ago

"I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest," he said. "There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is."

This seems commendable.

Perceval• 13 years ago

Certainly better than Bradley Manning's approach of indiscriminate mass disclosure.

Daniel_Newby• 13 years ago

Indeed. I was amazed that The Guardian would characterize Manning as a "whistleblower". Manning broke OPSEC and fed a lot of good people into the meat grinder, rather than show why the policies might be a bad idea.

mpyne• 13 years ago

Indeed, this was exactly why I tipped my hat to him when the leak was first made public here, as it was almost the polar opposite of what Manning did. Perhaps Snowden's "careful evaluation" will finally drive the point home here on HN (one can hope) that such leaks should themselves be carefully evaluated.

But I'm even more impressed he's unveiled himself, which takes incredible bravery even if you assume every protection of due process is available to you.

mtgx3• 13 years ago

Exactly what I thought. They may say that they only target foreigners, but nobody is actually checking that once the "general warrant" is signed by the rubber stamp FISA Court. And pretty much any analyst should have the ability to check any info on anyone, since they have all the data on everyone.

If that doesn't scare you and you still think "I have nothing to hide, nor will I have anything to hide in the next 2 decades or more", then maybe Americans will deserve whatever is coming their way.

Just know that the worse this gets, the harder it will be to get on the right path again, because it's very hard to change an oppressive government and an oppressive culture, once you get to that point. And the worse the "solution" will have to be to fix things.

miles2• 13 years ago

After watching the video, I am reminded of this quote from Gandhi:

Men of stainless character will easily inspire confidence and automatically purify the atmosphere around them.

JDulin• 13 years ago

My first reaction at how public he is making his identity and why he disclosed those documents was that he is seeking fame and flattery. But it's actually the best thing to do.

By making sure the public knows who he is, where he is, and what he stands for Edward Snowden has (hopefully) protected himself from the more nefarious things American intelligence services may do to capture him by making them impractical for the sake of public relations. China would no doubt be upset if CIA agents nabbed him from a Hong Kong hotel. Plus, his fame gives an incentive to nations to give him political asylum if they want to make a political statement against the U.S.

schiang• 13 years ago

If the US govt decides to prosecute Edward Snowden, doesn't that basically confirm every single accusation is true? So far there's been a lot of denials from all parties involved. The govt is in a tough position.

pmorici• 13 years ago

No, they would likely be prosecuting him for taking the documents that he gave to the reporters. I don't see how that would confirm the media's interpretation of those documents some of which appear to be slide decks absent the context of the verbal presentation that probably went with them. From this article it doesn't sound like he thinks anything legally improper is currently going on. His point seems to be that if someone decided to change the law tomorrow and do away with our rights then the technology is in place to implement that very quickly.

oceanstone• 13 years ago

This man is a real hero. He actually put himself on the line to move society forward. I feel like his release was the tipping point, people are starting to wake up.

IAmAI343• 13 years ago

You would think. I hope you are right but people seem a lot more preoccupied with the Kardashians and Lindsay Lohan. Even smart people with college degrees and everything.

electic• 13 years ago

Neither NBC News or CNN is showing this on their front page. Odd.

kabdib• 13 years ago

It's on CNN now.

maxerickson• 13 years ago

It isn't prominent, but CNN has a link to the story on their front page.

NBC just seems to not have a lot of up to the minute content there (I would be pretty surprised if they do not cover it).

obstacle1• 13 years ago

CNN put up a 4-paragraph softball piece [1]. Edit: CNN added to its reporting.

You're right about NBC. Their current headline:

Game of spoilers: Did Twitter kill DVRs?

Which is a piece expressing some TV viewers' outrage that tweets spoiled an episode of Game of Thrones for them.

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/09/politics/nsa-leak-identity/ind...

grey-area3• 13 years ago

And at the time of writing, this is the biggest story on the NYT home page:

Theme Parks Let In the V.I.P.’s http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/business/at-universal-park...

A Story about the price of tickets at theme parks.

bcn• 13 years ago

Q: Washington-based foreign affairs analyst Steve Clemons said he overheard at the capital's Dulles airport four men discussing an intelligence conference they had just attended. Speaking about the leaks, one of them said, according to Clemons, that both the reporter and leaker should be "disappeared". How do you feel about that?

In Dulles UAL lounge listening to 4 US intel officials saying loudly leaker & reporter on #NSA stuff should be disappeared recorded a bit — Steve Clemons (@SCClemons) June 8, 2013

A: "Someone responded to the story said 'real spies do not speak like that'. Well, I am a spy and that is how they talk. Whenever we had a debate in the office on how to handle crimes, they do not defend due process – they defend decisive action. They say it is better to kick someone out of a plane than let these people have a day in court. It is an authoritarian mindset in general."

-From the written Q & A, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblowe...

The tweet by Steve Clemons- https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289

GabrielF00• 13 years ago

How did he know they were "intel" officers? Were they wearing badges? Even if they were some of the thousands of people who who work for intelligence agencies, is there any reason to believe they would have any authority in this matter? Sounds like some guys talking shit at an airport. There's a lot of hysteria regarding this issue which is distracting from a real debate on the underlying issues.

MarciaPetros5• 13 years ago

Shop talk is indicative of a general mindset and attitude. "Spies" are not in the business of serving due process. That is the job of lawyers and judges. You would therefore expect that kind of attitude--"if we could, we should just disappear them."

Of course it's shit talk and it's not going to happen. That wasn't the point though. The point was about the attitude.

tome5• 13 years ago

"I sitting at my desk certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president if I had a personal email"

"I had access to the full rosters of everyone working in the NSA, the entire intelligence community and undercover assets all around the world, the locations of every station, we have what their missions are"

Wow, is this guy for real? It sounds crazy.

joanojr2• 13 years ago

Yeah that part made me shutter, why the hell would he bring that up? Is he trying to bait the US Gov somehow?

waterlesscloud• 13 years ago

It does read like a shot across the bow.

arkitaip• 13 years ago

Do you honestly think his employers aren't aware of that fact? LISTEN to what he's trying to say: no one - not even POTUS - is safe from being spied on.

krisroadruck• 13 years ago

erm he pointed out his level of access to illustrate that what he did wasn't to harm the US but to inform the people. He is saying look I could have done anything with the access I had, literally anything, but what I choose to do was take some specific info I felt would be relevant to the public and disclose it in a way that didnt put operatives at risk or put people in harms way. Its the whistle blower equivelant of "I have nuclear tech, and instead of building a bomb, I built a power plant".

tome5• 13 years ago

But how could a 29-year-old sysadmin have access to all this. Isn't it crazy? It sounds crazy to me.

wwwtyro• 13 years ago

I'm extremely pleased he's so well spoken. Good luck, Edward Snowden.

INTPenis• 13 years ago

Let's not forget Mark Klein either, or history might repeat itself...

brown9-27• 13 years ago

It's quite baffling that a low-level IT contractor is given this much access and also is making $200,000/year. Why is so much of government farmed out to contractors?

Also, isn't there a large risk that someone at the bottom of the chain grossly misunderstands the materials he is leaking?

EthanHeilman4• 13 years ago

Interesting fact, the low-level people in an intelligence org tend to have the broadest access. It is the high-level people that are put in compartmentalized verticals and plausible deniability (one of the latter DIRNSAs used to be famous for trying to know as little operational details as possible).

IT needs to have access to all systems to install patches and such, strategic decision makers just have access to need-to-know.

The KGB would always try to recruit people that ran the copy room and mail room. Now IT is probably the biggest target.

brown9-27• 13 years ago

Also ostensibly the people on the bottom are the easiest to recruit: disaffected, least paid (at least before 200k/yr salaries), perhaps uncommitted to mission or easy to mislead.

I don't understand why a low level IT person needs so much access though beyond a need to fix systems - there's no audit control on who is accessing these systems?

hannibal52• 13 years ago

You can't do much sensitive stuff without systems administrators knowing the secrets, unless you want to do the actual work by yourself.

To have access to all the stuff he has, he must have top-secret classification and he might be be part of few Special access programs (SAP). Having already classification and begin part of relevant SAP's when working in CIA/NSA might make him very valuable for private companies.

brown9-27• 13 years ago

If the US government reads IT workers into the SAP programs then we really are doomed.

For now I'll stick with Occum's Razor - the guy had no idea what he was looking at and assumed the worst.

corin_4• 13 years ago

This isn't particularly important, but I found it curious..

"I don't see myself as a hero," he said, "because what I'm doing is self-interested: I don't want to live in a world where there's no privacy and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity."

It's not self-interested in that way, really - had he chosen to be anonymous (and never been found out) then that logic could work, but with where his life is now, surely what the NSA does in America will pretty much never be relevant to him personally ever again. And he must realise this himself, so I wonder why he used those words - I guess modesty (or perhaps false modesty), but would have thought he could have come up with a better way of being modest.

Maybe his motive was fame, maybe it was doing the right thing, hell maybe he was depressed and looking for some excitement in his life. Doesn't really matter to anyone except himself, and people should consider him a hero or not based on whether they agree with what he did, not why he did it.

And I'd certainly call him a hero.

pohl• 13 years ago

Wouldn't outing himself reduce the probability of being assassinated by those he exposed? I'd guess he's safer with the eyes of the world on him.

corin_4• 13 years ago

Sorry I wasn't clear, when I talked about motive I meant for leaking the information, not for outing himself. (Though obviously, some motives for the leak would require the publicity.)

As to reasons for outing himself, if he didn't want fame, etc., then even assuming no assassination, if he were discovered and prosecuted the right way (by which I mean, by the law, not right as in I think he should be prosecuted), then chances are that by speaking to the media first (which he sure wouldn't be allowed to do after being caught) he has a better chance of getting the public to support him.

mkr-hn• 13 years ago

So the watchman watches the watchmen. Interesting.

DoubleMalt• 13 years ago

Now this will be the test for the "I have nothing to hide" philosophy.

a) Everything is legal and backed by the population, then the NSA didn't have anything to hide.

b) The NSAs concedes that some people and organizations have a legitimate interest in some privacy.

andyl• 13 years ago

Hero.

venomsnake• 13 years ago

Any rumors of legal defense fund for him? I have a feeling he will need it and I am more than willing to donate.

wellboy• 13 years ago

I can very well imagine indiegogo will work and show the will of the people, similar as the NYT Ad for Istanbul

davycro• 13 years ago

For this, he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

peterjancelis• 13 years ago

I have an extreme amount of respect for this guy.

Yesterday I made a snarky comment about how nobody believes this whistleblower will lead a long and untroubled life, and while that's true it's not the point. This guy is a hero in my book for doing this, and I am very happy to see he seems like a very balanced and normal person.

yekko• 13 years ago

Give the man a medal "Hero of the Human Race"

cromwellian5• 13 years ago

Seriously, Edward Snowden, China was your first choice to hide from the NSA?

Holy shit that was a bad choice for many reasons. I can't think of a worse place to go, other than Russia or Iran with respect to the intense desire of those nations to extract as many secrets about NSA capabilities as possible. These are the most secret of the secret capabilities of US intelligence. He even boasted that he knows many more secrets that he himself took care to censor unlike Bradley Manning. I think China will be very interested in hearing those redacted snippets.

Secondly, if he ends up revealing sensitive information to these countries, any sympathy from the US population will turn into calls for frying him as a traitor. Going to China makes him into a Rosenberg.

This guy doesn't seem very smart at all. And using pillow cases and shields over screens to stop the NSA? You're telling me this guy doesn't know what TEMPEST is? Didn't he see Gene Hackman in Enemy of the State? You need a Faraday Cage.

joanojr2• 13 years ago

If he is in Beijing, I agree. Hong Hong is quite it's own place.

cromwellian5• 13 years ago

If the CIA can snatch and grab people from Italy, I'm pretty sure Chinese intelligence agencies can snatch people from Hong Kong hotels living under their own name.

dude3• 13 years ago

They'll come get him in Hong Kong. I meant the Chinese.

weavejester• 13 years ago

It seems a reasonable choice to me. It's a technologically developed country which is unlikely to extradite him to the United States. His previous position at the NSA makes it unlikely he's stupid, and without knowing his reasoning for his choice, one might at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

rhizome6• 13 years ago

He covers both of your concerns in the interview.

malandrew2• 13 years ago

I'm surprised he didn't go directly to Iceland, since that is his ultimate destination, it's neutral and it's possible that the government there would have offered him some safety.

Helianthus• 13 years ago

It would be an interesting way to turn this into an international incident. I rather like it for that alone.

gsibble• 13 years ago

Think of it this way.....if China tries to grab him, the US will suddenly offer him immunity to come back home. He's put both countries in a very interesting position.

codeulike• 13 years ago

I doubt he is really where he claims to be

yesplorer• 13 years ago

According to the article, he's in Hong Kong not China. They are two different places. and Hong Kong is actually a good place for him in such a situation.

sachitgupta• 13 years ago

  This guy doesn't seem very smart at all. And using pillow cases and shields over screens to stop the NSA?

I think someone like him, with his level of access to information, would have his reasons for choosing China.

cromwellian5• 13 years ago

How could a CIA employee not know the blackmail techniques the CIA uses to recruit agents? All intelligence agencies leverage debt, criminal records, marital infidelity, or closeted gay behavior as leverage to "turn" a foreign agent.

This has been documented by numerous ex-CIA employees, like Bob Baer.

So his turning point was finding out a Swiss Banker was setup in a bar for a fall, and then offered a way out in exchange for information. He didn't know this before applying for CIA work?

Give me a break.

cromwellian5• 13 years ago

Not sure why people are voting this down. That and the "using pillowcases against eavesdropping" bit in the story are curious given any NSA employee should know about TEMPEST.

I feel there's some embellishment going on about how a guy went from security guard to master computer security dude, yet didn't know about basic signals intelligence techniques and who was also naive about well known techniques that all intelligence agencies use to flip people?

Tell me, whoever voted this down, would you take a job at a spook agency without reading James Bamford or Bob Baer? More than likely, you'd take a job at once of these agencies because you romanticized the descriptions of spying in them.

Agreeing to work for the CIA and NSA as opposed to the FBI pretty much says you're going to work at a "do be evil" organization. That's their whole mission, to do things outside of the law.

crapshoot101• 13 years ago

All things aside, the naivety to think that China (and yes, I recognize Hong Kong is not exactly China, but it is damn well under the jurisdiction of the PRC) is where free speech is going to be defended? That's a guy who sounds like he will be a propaganda coup for someone.

raphman• 13 years ago

With the exception of Russia, I would guess that China is the least likely nation to be coerced into extraditing him. If he is indeed in Hong Kong...

bsaul• 13 years ago

I've stated in a previous comment on HN that i found it very curious to see that the thing blew up right when China's president visited the US to talk about cyber espionnage.

And now the guy says he's in asylum in Honk-Kong, and the reason he gives is that it's because they respect free spech and political dissidents (pretty much like the rest of China i suppose) !! ???????

What kind of a joke is this ??

basdevries• 13 years ago

This man is a hero. He stood up for America and now it's time for all of us to stand up for him. Nothing more to say.

cdooh• 13 years ago

I'm not American but from where I sit this guy represents bravery of the highest order and the tenacity(sp?) of the American spirit. I'd be extremely proud to associated with him. He represents what we -the rest of the world- most value about America, freedom of speech, expression and calling out wrong damn the consequences.

themgt2• 13 years ago

White House Petition to Pardon Edward Snowden: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow...

voidlogic4• 13 years ago

I want to see this get lots of votes, just so the White House has to write a response. Even though I know what they will say...

LoganCale• 13 years ago

They never responded to the Aaron Swartz petition and it reached twice the required signatures to "guarantee" a response.

rhizome6• 13 years ago

Here, I'll do it for you: "We can't comment on ongoing investigations."

quackerhacker3• 13 years ago

Just as I was about to sign the petition (I've only signed 1 other one before to revoke the Westboro Baptist Church, lol)....I plan to run a "successful," startup someday soon, do you think it's safe to sign a petition (esp when I don't believe Aaron Swartz's demise was self-inflicted).

themgt2• 13 years ago

I plan to run a startup too, and frankly having to wonder whether some types of pro-civil-liberties speech are "safe" is a good indicator of how far off the track the USA has gone.

mikegioia• 13 years ago

It's a White House petition on their official website. They want people to sign these petitions and interact with the site.

woah• 13 years ago

Grow some balls.

blakeeb• 13 years ago

To anyone with doubts about going on-record about your support for Edward Snowden: This is precisely why you MUST sign it. Your nervousness in expressing an opinion different from your government's will only compound if a true surveillance state matures.

Let's stand up quickly for this hero before it's too late.

Your nervousness is NOTHING compared to what he felt while deciding whether or not to release this. Share his burden.

hanifvirani• 13 years ago

Doing a video interview like this was a very smart move. I can only hope his worst fear that he mentioned doesn't come true and that the people actually do something about this.

rdl3• 13 years ago

I'm kind of surprised he's 29. Generally, whistleblowers tend to be very young (and idealistic), or middle aged/old (with money problems, or facing political setbacks, or feeling they have nothing to lose).

I personally am against granting TS clearances to anyone under ~30 and S to anyone under ~25 due to the difficulty in doing background investigations on people of young age (illegal to bring in stuff before 18, and it's really hard to get useful information on pre-workforce people, both lots of false positives and false negatives).

I would have suspected someone like Binney (older, political setbacks) or someone much younger (PFC Manning).

nostrademons• 13 years ago

...which makes me wonder if the actual reality isn't worse than I'd assumed, with actual widespread abuses and not just theoretical abuses.

From the video, it sounds like he was just ground-down by the cavalier attitude of the people around him towards the citizens whose privacy they were entrusted with. Eventually he couldn't reconcile that anymore with his internal moral compass, and so he leaked it and figured "let the American people decide". I don't get the sense of personal insecurity from him that you assume with many other people who blow the whistle.

rdl3• 13 years ago

Maybe. I personally would never leak something I gained through employment to the public; if I had been in his position and felt it was truly worth leaking/sacrificing my career and freedom, I would have gone to NSA/DOD IG, Congress, or a federal judge. (at a private company, to CEO/CFO/board or regulators/police) There isn't much which would make me leak to the public but not take up arms (I mean, if somehow time traveling Nazis took over, I can't see just leaking info and not killing them.)

I am glad his disclosures seemed at least somewhat contained, unlike PFC Manning.

sdoowpilihp2• 13 years ago

What is the most worrying about the revelation that Edward Snowden was the whistleblower, is that he is a relatively low level employee, especially in respects to security clearances. The material he would be able to get his hands on is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to what the NSA does that we would be outraged over.

pyvek2• 13 years ago

``He has had "a very comfortable life" that included a salary of roughly $200,000, a girlfriend with whom he shared a home in Hawaii, a stable career, and a family he loves. "I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building."``

Shame on us if we don't act and let this man's sacrifice go to waste.

smsm422• 13 years ago

What you propose to do?

pyvek2• 13 years ago

First the people need to be made aware about how serious this is and why their privacy matters. Then, people will have to get on the streets for demonstrations and overwhelm their representatives with emails and phone calls asking to do something about it. Similar to how SOPA/PIPA protests were carried out.

voidlogic4• 13 years ago

Ironic in Catch-22: "Snowden is a member of Yossarian's flight during a mission, and acts as catalyst for the fundamental change in Yossarian's mentality and outlook." [1]

Are U.S. Citizens Yossarian?

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yossarian#Snowden

foobarqux• 13 years ago

Is Snowden Snowden?

"He felt goose pimples clacking all over him as he gazed down despondently at the grim secret Snowden had spilled all over the messy floor. It was easy to read the message in his entrails. Man was matter, that was Snowden's secret. Drop him out a window and he'll fall. Set fire to him and he'll burn. Bury him and he'll rot, like other kinds of garbage. The spirit gone, man is garbage. That was Snowden's secret. Ripeness was all."

bliker• 13 years ago

So what are we doing now?

myle• 13 years ago

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

SCAQTony• 13 years ago

When I was a kid Russians from the CCCP wanted to defect to the USA... Now we have American Edward Snoden seeking asylum outside the USA for trying to bulk up the 4th amendment of the US constitution:

"...My predisposition is to seek asylum in a country with shared values. The nation that most encompasses this is Iceland. They stood up for people over internet freedom. I have no idea what my future is going to be. ..."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblowe...

wildmXranat• 13 years ago

I'll be honest, I got a little teary-eyed while watching the video and feel sense of immediate call-to-action driven by responsibility to not let his actions go to waste. I'm thinking about what can be done by a Canadian like myself. Other than support for the EFF and such, there must be a more local way for us, the citizens of our respective countries to not let his actions to have been done in vain.

6d0debc071• 13 years ago

It's very brave of him to give up anonymity, but I think he's effectively committed suicide. I will not be surprised if someone comes forward to accuse him of rape, or he's bundled into the back of a plane and taken somewhere unpleasant, or gets killed in a convenient accident.

I don't get why he did it either. Gave it up that is. Depending on how many people had access to that cross section of docs - and considering how ineffective companies and govs usually are at segmenting info I imagine that's quite broad - he could reasonably have hoped to avoid retaliation.

yankoff• 13 years ago

Some things I still can't understand.

* How the hell they are able to store all this data? * How they are able to search through it?

jacquesm• 13 years ago

This guy is a hero for doing the right thing. Hopefully the NSA ranks will find a lot more heros amongst their number in the future, it's one way in which those that are the hands and brains behind these programs can redeem themselves.

Unfortunately, with every Manning or Snowden that does their job there is one more person to be made an example out of to show future wanna-be whistle blowers what happens when you embarrass your three-lettered employer like this.

I wish Edward Snowden a lot of good luck in the near future, and I wished he'd chosen Iceland instead of Hong-Kong as his place to hang out.

return0• 13 years ago

Good thing that he came forward before he miraculously 'disappears' or is otherwise arrested of some irrelevant crime. Unlike the Assange or Manning cases however, this guy uncovered an actual abuse of power, so it's hard for people not to sympathize with him and hopefully he won't be prosecuted ruthlessly. If on the other hand the US (and allies) begin a new crusade against him, it is literally a case of a government fighting its own people. Leadership needs to be accountable and that cannot happen without whistleblowers.

rdl3• 13 years ago

The best near-term result from this would be to end the reliance of NSA/IC/DOD/USG on private contractors and vendors of anything but the most COTS of COTS products. End the contractor gravy train. No services. All inherently governmental functions to be performed solely by current government employees, at defense, law enforcement, or civil service wages.

The overt purpose is to prevent leaks.

The actual purpose is to remove the profit motive from expanding the military industrial complex. This will both dramatically reduce the scope and reduce the capabilities of the military and intelligence communities, so they will have to focus on real threats with their remaining resources.

You also won't get anyone good to do anything they don't truly believe in for a GS-11 to GS-13 salary, whereas plenty of good people will do mildly evil or at least banal stuff for $250k/yr contractor salaries.

quackerhacker3• 13 years ago

I'm usually against whistleblowers...but given Snowden's risk, acknowledgment and sacrifices, FOR ONCE (Bradley aside), I do believe in Snowden's character and motivation!

I do agree that it's only a matter of time before some media outlets demonize him. Given his current position, I understand why he would disclose his identity.

1) He has to know that they would suspect and/or discover him as the whistleblower.

2) For his safety. The gov may not send a seal team in after him (esp. in China territory), but nothing stops motivated bounty hunters.

zipfle• 13 years ago

I'm really interested in how this plays out. I notice a couple of things:

1) From my vantage point as Not A Lawyer, it doesn't look to me like this guy is subject to military law like Manning is. That should be interesting.

2) Manning was a private in the army. It seems to me that the purpose of what they are doing to him is intended as a deterrent to his peers. I suspect there is a difference between the way Army privates might react to one of theirs being made an example and how Snowden's peers might react to whatever comes of this.

3) I have no idea if the NSA is a fun place to work, but I bet it's about to get a lot less fun, especially for anyone who's voiced support of the EFF.

4) Remember when Bruce Schneier said you should come forward if you know something? That.

shmerl• 13 years ago

Very brave and honest act. What's sad about is that he's probably right in his concerns. Most will just ignore this issue and move along as if nothing wrong is going on. After all if people got so insensitive with giving up their privacy on Facebook and etc., why would they worry about global surveillance?

Anyway, let's hope what Edward Snowden did can still shake some people up and make them realize the extent of this problem.

lazaruz• 13 years ago

A brave soul who deserves support.

msantos• 13 years ago

It's time to bring this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1264237 back to the front page...

Cyberwar Doomsayer Lands $34 Million in Government Cyberwar Contracts [2010] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/04/booz-allen/

danso• 13 years ago

I hope this revelation continues to bring more clarity/transparency to what PRISM (and the other revealed programs) and the role of U.S. communication companies...But I have to say, it's admirable when a whistleblower puts not only actions, but their name and life behind their convictions.

losvedir• 13 years ago

Inspiring. I was compelled to donate to the EFF after reading that, and I encourage others, too, as well.

milhous2• 13 years ago

We must do whatever we can to help Ed Snowden and others who can no longer turn a blind eye to the immoral and unethical machinations of government business as usual. I encourage everyone to do their best in persuading others not to work for the government, and companies that as Jake Applebaum put it, are oppressors of the people. If the government devolves into full tyranny, its politicians and employees will turn against the people, in the name of "following orders" and "for the good of the country."

What's needed are successful, principled people like those reading HN to get involved, and start mounting campaigns to ultimately defeat people in Congress that egregiously curtail our freedoms and liberties. They must be idealistic, rational, vocal, and be prepared to mount a vigorous fight and debate to stop these violations. The politicians are easy to identify, as they advocate perpetual increases in national security at any cost, for the sake of "keeping us safe." The hacker community would back you. I would.

Elon Musk has said many times that the people respond best to precedents and superlatives. It's up to us to effect change and talk about it as much as possible, with friends, in our blogs, and our websites. People are receptive to successful people, because they've shown that they can achieve and better themselves.

We need a philosophical and cultural revolution in awareness, purpose, and identity. How can it be done?

We must use our power as citizens and right these wrongs.

mrschwabe• 13 years ago

Does Edward have a blog or Twitter account or something we can follow him on ?

I realize the irony of the question but at the same rate, if he is already accepting the 'authorities' will know where to find him - why not have some form of broadcast to the outside world? So we know he's OK?

As I write this though, I remember his primary goal is to shine light on the problem and not make it about him - so I understand if he's not interested in an online presence for that very reason.

thwest• 13 years ago

There will be a special place in history for the likes of Snowden, Manning and Ellsburg. I hope Snowden does not face the same torture Manning has been subject to.

gburt• 13 years ago

Wow.

smsm422• 13 years ago

* Secondly, the election of Barack Obama in 2008 gave him hope that there would be real reforms, rendering disclosures unnecessary.*

This is so sad. People really do believe what windbag politicians tell them on TV and what paid talking heads on the same TV tell about them. It's not like every single politician being elected promises to right all wrongs and fix all evils. I can't even begin to get why seemingly intelligent people thought this particular time is any different from hundreds of times before.

mehmehshoe• 13 years ago

Is anyone else curious about the timing of all the releases? I am not suspicious of the content but I am interested in the release dates of each article and the sequence. It seems to me that each release needs the previous. Like a slideshow or HBO drama.

csears• 13 years ago

Edward, if you happen to be reading this, I just wanted to say "thanks"

jasonlingx• 13 years ago

"On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent", and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government."

Oh sweet irony

jgamman• 13 years ago

anyone else noted the connection between the UK's Guardian newspaper ("a charitable foundation existing between 1936 and 2008, which aimed to ensure the paper's editorial independence in perpetuity, maintaining its financial health to ensure it did not become vulnerable to take overs by for-profit media groups") and the role of the fourth estate lately? begs the question - can a govt be scutinised with a profit-seeking structure? implications for how the IT industry has cannibilised their revenue model is left as an exercise for the reader.

gyardley• 13 years ago

Claims he doesn't want public attention or the story to be about him. Then, by going public, he gets the public's attention and makes the story about him.

When I read this article, I cringed. Now everything gets to be the Edward Snowden show - his background, how he's being treated, his future plans, what happens to him, etc etc etc. The more important issues will get completely eclipsed by 'oh, what should or shouldn't the government do with this guy?'

I don't understand his actions at all. Why couldn't he just quietly switch careers and go about his business, instead of the obvious famewhoring?

bryanwbh• 13 years ago

Edward Snowden, thank you for your effort and your unwavering principle in believing what is right!

You are definitely an inspiration to a lot of young people!

nicolly2• 13 years ago

http://edward-snowden-45th-president-of-the-united-states.co...

Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

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