Europeans should learn to love the air-conditioner

This. Having survived dozens of mediterranean village summers without A/C, I am genuinely puzzled how it came to be considered a necessity. Is it "modern" construction methods that turned buildings into heat batteries? So, it became a necessity in the cities, and then spread everywhere because we became spoiled and our collective tolerance to heat dropped?

orwin4• 28 days ago

Last night, or rather this morning, the temperature reached it's lowest at 5 AM: 28C. When I woke up two hours later we had 33, and when I started working at 9, 38. The thermometer then reached 43 at noon, where it it still stuck 4 hours 45 minutes later, despite the rising humidity (I live by the sea), making the humidex reach 51. The temperature won't be below 34 before midnight, and might be below 30 at 5AM tomorrow morning.

varjag3• 28 days ago

[flagged]

FergusArgyll• 28 days ago

Big Air Conditioner

daveguy2• 28 days ago

You don't think it has to do with all the dying from a heatwave going on there?

varjag3• 28 days ago

We have a major continental war raging on for years here with combined casualties of well over a million people. Which you're adamant is none of your business. So no, I don't think so.

spockz3• 28 days ago

Most airconditioning is supplied by Asian manufacturers anyway. Not sure what is in it for big USA. Other than a general increase in consumption.

woodpanel• 28 days ago

Quick, somebody sent them American brothers and sisters some of those Covid era Chinese bodybag scaremongering videos, dubbing it „EurOpOoRs dying from heatwave“

sgerenser3• 28 days ago

The Economist is not an American publication though.

alserio• 28 days ago

For what i see, these us vs europe thigs have spiked recently, who'll benefit from it?

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF• 28 days ago

It's synthetic even when it doesn't feel so. If an article features a product of any kind, no matter if it's brand-specific or not, and the article isn't a blog post, then it's a pretty safe bet it's a paid advertisement. It's hard not to notice once you start seeing it.

This one is particularly on the nose about Europeans not buying enough air conditioners, though. What with the normative headline phrasing that calls out Europeans specifically (who are infamous for their stubbornness against American consumerism!). I can usually appreciate the subtlety in these articles[0], but this one's about as subtle as a brick to the face.

0: https://paulgraham.com/submarine.html

deliciousturkey• 28 days ago

It's because there's a big heat wave in certain parts of Europe right now. I'm not American (I'm Finnish), but I have also thought how weird it is that in central/western europe AC is so rare. I has definitely been needed for decades already in places like Germany and France.

sph• 28 days ago

Anything to stop looking at what's going on in their banana republic. With their exceptionalism being as strong as ever, now that they're frustrated they jump at the chance to gloat at the 'europoors'.

Kaliboy• 28 days ago

As a Dutch person who is from the Caribbean, we definitely love the air-conditioner down here. Especially since they all are "inverter" technology, doesn't use as much energy as before.

They also love them on the mainland but nobody loves the hassle of getting one installed.

It's also insurance related. Houses are insured based on also their insulation. Try making a hole in that insulation for an a/c without 'gezeik' as we say.

When I lived there I had a portable mini split unit. I ran that baby constantly during heatwaves. Blew every single-hose portable AC unit away.

kakacik2• 28 days ago

True. Our building is 20 year old swiss one, mostly concrete, one would expect already good temperatures. Ground floor and first one are fine even now (26 is max it gets), but floor under roof is much warmer. 28 and more and I can't work mentally much, sweat just sitting, showers work for few mins. No AC would make it unbearable to WFH for example.

Ventilation during night is almost useless, there is no breeze these days the air is perfectly still. Open windows through the building and air doesn't change, just insects come.

Now typical proper 2-part ACs are forbidden here for residential buildings, and monolithic ones are not that effective. We bought a mix of this from midea last year - 2 parts, permanently connected by hose, and we put it out when needed and cover door to balcony. easily 25 max under roof at low rpms, so far so good (outside easily 35 in shade, >42C on balcony in afternoon/evening). Proper permanently installed 2 part AC would save some energy since we lose some cold via smaller gaps in door, but its frequent these well-meaning moves end up doing more damage than intended.

sgerenser3• 28 days ago

Interesting, I knew most of Europe wasn’t very big on AC, but I didn’t know permanent residential installations were practically banned in (at least some parts of) Switzerland: https://lenews.ch/2026/05/29/the-politics-of-air-conditionin...

MisterTea• 28 days ago

I was in Spain last summer, in August of all times, ~30-40 C. Two of the three places I stayed at had no AC but had ceiling fans. Hot as hell for sure but that is why the siesta exists. I would go out, become exhausted from the damn heat, then go back to my room around 5PM, shower and sleep naked or only in underwear with a window open and ceiling fan running. Then awaken and go back out around 7PM. At someones house I slept in their basement which was a bit damp but cool enough to be somewhat comfortable. The last place I stayed at had AC thankfully.

aestetix• 28 days ago

How about applying political pressure to countries like China and India that do not care about emissions control and pollution? :)

watwut3• 28 days ago

The anti global warming initiatives were killed by Unites States. Who is the major polluter.

Hikikomori2• 28 days ago

Or america with it's insane per capita emissions.

China is at least adding more solar per year than America has in total.

random_ind_dude• 28 days ago

Non-fossil fuels make up 50% of India's installed power capacity. This year's peak power demand was 270GW, out of which 34% was supplied by renewables. The percentage of renewables in India's energy mix is going up every year, and there is no aversion to nuclear. Still, thermal power plants using coal remain a significant source of energy, and new coal plants are being planned and built. So India does care about emissions, but it also cares about energy security.

eigenspace3• 28 days ago

The rapid buildout of solar, and the rise of efficient air cons for electric home heating certainly makes it seem like a much less wasteful technology than before.

I still think though that people are severly underestimating the effectiveness of relative simple, low-tech options like awnings though.

DanielHB6• 28 days ago

I live in sweden and I am baffled by how uncommon awnings are. In my home country window shutters that also work as yawnings are quite common, especially in places without AC.

My partner was downright insulted when I suggested getting some blackout curtains to reflect sunlight back outside when the sun is hitting our living room. I eventually won that battle after the first summer.

stavros2• 28 days ago

You can also get UV-absorbing film for the windows, though it'll make things worse in the winter.

pjerem2• 28 days ago

underestimating the effectiveness of relative simple, low-tech options like awnings though.

I mean, I'm currently in France, with 30°C (86°F) in my bedroom, do you really think that our shutters are opened ? At some point, sunlight is not even the issue. For the night to come, like the previous night, predictions are that we will have 35°C (95F) at midnight. I'm not even sure it was this hot when I was at Las Vegas eleven years ago. Las Vegas which is in the middle a of desert.

We are way past the awnings and we already have shutters and both of them are useless when the air itself is like a air dryer.

DanielHB6• 28 days ago

Awnings are significantly better than shutters, but they at most mitigate the heat and the temperature range they make the ambient confortable is quite limited.

eigenspace3• 28 days ago

I didn't say anything about shutters, I said awnings. It's a testament to how much our society has forgotten about building effective homes that people think shutters are just as effective as awnings.

That said, yes, if possible, you should be installing an AC unit as well (and the awning will help make the AC unit more efficient.

TMWNN• 28 days ago

For the night to come, like the previous night, predictions are that we will have 35°C (95F) at midnight. I'm not even sure it was this hot when I was at Las Vegas eleven years ago. Las Vegas which is in the middle a of desert.

Vegas's dry heat is much more tolerable than lower temperatures in more humid places (which is pretty much the rest of the civilized world).

close043• 28 days ago

The article is all over the place. I thought the point will be about using your home as a "battery" to store what your panels produce during the day in the form of cool air. But I think the punchline is already in the first paragraph:

Yanks holidaying in Europe expect cool comfort, and grow surly on finding that many old-world buildings require them to sweat and bear it.

And there's of course the ever present AI driver because where would we be if we don't get our priorities straight:

It must ... expand its data centres, dwarfed by America’s, lest the artificial-intelligence revolution render it a vassal.

The rest of the article meanders through historical considerations, family wealth, home sizes, geopolitical issues, traditions, etc. None of which explain or justify the premise of the title, some even contradict it. Expanding AI DC goes head to head with "wasting" energy on cooling houses more. It's comfortable to lower the temp a bit in summer but all the arguments in the article are that the energy would be better used elsewhere. Industry, AI, etc.

The bottom like will always be that for any given production/storage capacity everything is a 0 sum game. I can use it to cool houses, or store it/use it for something more productive. The article does a bad job explaining why "cool the house" would trump other considerations when they compete for the same energy.

watwut3• 28 days ago

I just love how Europe became American vassals the moment they refused to do what America wants.

orwin4• 28 days ago

I mean, huge part of the EU population is USA cultural vassal. Not being one is almost considered as a social distinction for some.

labadi4• 28 days ago

As an American living in Austria, I find this conversation really tiring. Common arguments against AC are urban heat and CO2 emissions. Living in a city where 80% of residential electricity comes from hydropower, the emissions argument seems a bit moot.

For urban heat zones, AC seems to be criticized in isolation. There's never a mention of a lack of tree canopy in vast parts of the city, or that reflective pavements and green roofs are nonexistent.

I think a real barrier is that we're not allowed to install compressors on building facades. I don't disagree with this; it just means that most folks living here are stuck buying portable AC units, which are inefficient unless you do some considerable DIY to make them dual-hose.

whilenot-dev2• 28 days ago

There's never a mention of a lack of tree canopy in vast parts of the city, or that reflective pavements and green roofs are nonexistent.

Can you expand on this? Because it feels like greening is always a pressing topic for any architect working here[0][1].

[0] https://gruenstattgrau.at/news/

[1] https://www.wien.gv.at/spezial/klimafahrplan/klimaanpassung-...

labadi4• 28 days ago

I was referring more to everyday discourse rather than city initiatives. Apologies for the confusion.

And my criticism is mainly of the city in its current form. I'm appreciative of the efforts from the city, but walking around Neubau, it's hard to describe it as anything other than a concrete jungle.

DanielHB6• 28 days ago

Living in a city where 80% of residential electricity comes from hydropower, the emissions argument seems a bit moot.

In an interconnected grid (most of europe) clean power capacity that is not used locally can be sold off to places that have less clean power capacity. This argument only works if all of europe was mostly renewable energy.

But I mean, heat-pump AC is quite efficient as long as you are not making your home frigid year-around I don't see that as a big argument. Govs would be better served by providing good heat-pump regulations and pre-approved installations for residential builds and banning those incredible ineficient portable ACs.

spacechild12• 28 days ago

For urban heat zones, AC seems to be criticized in isolation. There's never a mention of a lack of tree canopy in vast parts of the city, or that reflective pavements and green roofs are nonexistent.

I totally agree on the importance of trees, reflective pavements, green roofs, etc.

However, pretty much everybody who is critical of AC would also support the things you've listed. Is your complaint that people do not talk enough about it? That's not really my experience.

I have the feeling that widespread use of AC would make it even harder to make these changes. At the very least, these things must go hand in hand.

invalidusernam3• 28 days ago

Why has this become a meme? Sure aircon is nice but there are also reasons why it's not common in some parts of Europe. Here in central Prague a lot of the buildings are historic and protected, so you can't just gouge out a section of the building to install an aircon. Also it's generally only hot enough for aircon maybe 2-4 weeks a year. I'm seeing more and more American's yapping about not having aircon in Europe. I assume they're mostly the kind that has never been to Europe

mavhc• 28 days ago

Air-conditioners are heat pumps and everyone should be using heat pumps

clarionbell• 28 days ago

Good luck convincing old building protection pressure groups about it (yes, around here these people are real and have power). Not to mention the bureau actually in charge of landmark protection (in some areas everything is a landmark).

labadi4• 28 days ago

If you count that one weird day in March, there have been 9 days so far this year where the temperature has been above 28C I live in central Europe as well. It's only June... You'll have 39C on Sunday.

Using 28C as a threshold since temperatures at or above start to affect sleep.

whalesalad• 28 days ago

The climate situation will only get worse. That “2-4 weeks” number will continue to grow. At some point you will need AC to survive but if that transition doesn’t start happening now the electrical system won’t be able to tolerate the load.

ExoticPearTree4• 28 days ago

You can add AC systems in the attics and then run the piping inside the building. You keep the facade as it is.

I guess it depends on the country, customs and other things. In my part of Europe, older people are convinced the AC will kill them if they use it. So YMMV.

spockz3• 28 days ago

You can indeed. But then you lose significant space internally and not to mention the noise. Of course, better than having nothing. However, space in these houses comes at a premium as well.

Markoff3• 27 days ago

that's not very efficient since attic will be then hot

balcony is more practical place where to hide it if it's historical building, worth that <0.5m2 if you don't hang it on wall and must hide it from neighbors/bureaucrats

slibhb2• 28 days ago

Meanwhile ~40 (mostly young) people drowned in France recently trying to cool off as temperatures exceeded 100F around Paris.

It's true that historically Europe is cooler than similar latitudes in North America. But there's also an anti-AC movement in Europe based partly on environmentalism, partly on reflexive anti-Americanism, and partly due to a general preference for "naturalness"/suspicion of anything new.

thefz2• 28 days ago

It's true that historically Europe is cooler than similar latitudes in North America. But there's also an anti-AC movement in Europe based partly on environmentalism, partly on reflexive anti-Americanism, and partly due to a general preference for "naturalness"/suspicion of anything new.

This is complete speculation from your part.

close043• 28 days ago

It's very Americentrist to assume anyone ever thinks of "Americans" when deciding their home improvements and expenses.

Most of Europe only sees occasional heatwaves (for now) so it's a compromise to suffer some heat briefly but save money and effort on the AC installation. Those who can, time their vacation to overlap with much of the peak heat.

I think this slowly changes but it's driven by need (longer and hotter heatwaves), affordability, local regulation, not by thinking of "Americans". Not even US Americans.

bilekas• 28 days ago

But there's also an anti-AC movement in Europe based partly on environmentalism, partly on reflexive anti-Americanism, and partly due to a general preference for "naturalness"/suspicion of anything new.

It's so amusing to see what people really think about us Europeans, so suspicious of anything new and those Americans, I guess we still burn witches too!

I for one love my AirConditioning unit, but it gets use maybe 1 month of the year ? I can completely understand why people don't see the need when awnings are still a thing. There are just already ways to keep the house cool during the day.

nkoren• 28 days ago

Correction: Europe is much warmer than similar latitudes in North America. Madrid is north of Denver. Istanbul is north of New York. London is north of Calgary.[1]

1: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/3sac4u/interactive...

LunaSea• 28 days ago

Meanwhile the US has a 1.31 drownings per 100 000 inhabitants and France 0.81 per 100 000 inhabitants. 60% less than the US.

Hikikomori2• 28 days ago

Trying to cool off going swimming because its warm outside like we do every summer?

gmuslera• 28 days ago

Never cross a river 4-feet deep on average. A heatstroke may not let you see how cooler the rest of the year may be.

eigenspace3• 28 days ago

This might be the coldest summer for the rest of your life. European summers are only going to get hotter, and more humid. Meanwhile, we have a pressing need to decarbonize our home heating solutions both for energy sovreignty and climate reasons.

Modern air-to-air heat pumps (i.e. aircon) are a pretty good solution for that. I think we're just going to have to work our way around this as a society. While many Europeans live in historic buildings that will require a lot more care, most do not, and installing aircon at least for homes with elederly people and young children provably will reduce unnecessary deaths during our now yearly heatwaves.

stasomatic3• 27 days ago

But what about the coldest springs? It's wild, I was in Paris just this mid May and it was raining and hailing, berry sized icy projectiles from the sky. I had to pop into a Decathlon and get a waterproof jacket.

druskacik• 28 days ago

I live in Prague and seeing the temperatures expected during weekend, I bought at least the portable AC. I'd say 2-4 weeks is quite a long period to justify this purchase.

Yes, historically, the AC didn't make sense in Prague, but there's no going back, the world is just going to get hotter.

Markoff3• 27 days ago

portable AC is extremely inefficient and noisy + you need hole in the window, otherwise you will be letting tons of heat back through the gap if you keep window ajar even with insulation

kakacik2• 28 days ago

I've lived in Prague for 5 years. Top apartments in buildings (most have 5-6 storeys in the center) are hardly livable during summer (not even during proper heat waves) without AC, reconstructed or not. I've been to few, folks slept on balconies if AC was not present. Woken up by 5am traffic of course. The whole city center is a mess of stone and concrete/tarmac, it heats up and stays too warm deep into each night.

I don't get this extremism, neither no AC or AC full blast freezing the room. We have ours set to mild spin aiming for 20C, it drops temperature in the room cca 4-5 degrees down compared to no AC. Still 25, very pleasant while outside 35 in shade, especially for small kids.

bob1029• 28 days ago

I assume they're mostly the kind that has never been to Europe

The big disconnect comes from the fact that places like Miami and Houston don't really have analogous European peers in terms of climate. There are places that come close but it's not the same.

It's one thing for it to be unbearably hot at 2-6pm. Its a different thing altogether for it to still be 80F+ at 3am every single night for months on end. You cannot escape the heat in Houston without phase change cooling technology. Latent heat removal is what most of us are paying for around here (water out of the air). Not sensible heat removal.

I can walk down my street and find 2-3k sqft sqft homes that have 5+ tons of HVAC capacity. There is a home with three condensing units and it's not much bigger than mine (I only have a single 3 ton system). I've been thinking about getting a multizone ductless installed on top of my central unit to deal with July and August.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/weather-news/articles/worst-ive-e...

stasomatic3• 27 days ago

I just had to replace an AC in my condo in Miami. The replacement parts' cost for the old unit didn't make sense. Got a 3 ton Bosch unit, parts and installation was $6K. 3 tons is just enough for 1600 square feet and old single pane windows.

You cannot survive without an AC in Florida. Nor in Las Vegas, Dallas, NYC and the boroughs, the list goes on. Doable in Santa Monica or in the Bay perhaps.

Humidity is a larger burden on me than temperature. I can do dry Las Vegas at 100F, but can't stand Miami at 80F and 70% humidity.

ianmarcinkowski• 28 days ago

Canadian here. My exposure to this topic is mostly:

- News coverage about how extremely hot it has become in north/central Europe - News coverage/comments about heat-related deaths in Europe - People suddenly discovering wet bulb temperatures - "Extreme Heat" warnings, and events getting cancelled

What I see is people complaining about something when I can walk into my local Walmart, Canadian Tire, or hardware store and buy a $150-250CAD air conditioner which will cool a bedroom to 20C.

Is $200CAD ($150 Euro?) worth sleeping well for 2-8 weeks a year (counting warm-but-not-extreme weeks)?

Window designs in Europe may be different, but we have also invented... sheets of plywood and saws to cut baffles. It may not be pretty, but a vast number of low-income apartments in Toronto have plywood baffles + aircon in their bedroom windows.

The complaining, outrage and sudden realizations that it's hot outside are what annoy me. Some years it is >30C for 4 weeks and >25C for 8-12 weeks. Well worth $150 for a cheap aircon unit.

Fire-Dragon-DoL3• 28 days ago

I lived 25 years in Rome, now I live in Vancouver.

Went back to Rome in the summer this year (haven't been there in summer in about 8 years)...

And holy moly it's so hot. Unbearably hot and humid. You don't want to step out, it's outright unpleasant.

boelboel2• 24 days ago

But Rome has more AC than vancouver

Markoff3• 27 days ago

many of those old buildings have balconies where you can hide AC nobody from street can see, personally I have my multisplit unit on the roof (I'm on top/5th floor), same with neighbor floor below just with longer pipes

it certainly more than 4 weeks hot enough between June-September to justify AC, even one month per year is comfy + it helps also during heating season if they start too late or end too early, you can use AC for heating as well

spockz3• 28 days ago

I already love our airconditioning. The only downside is how quickly we became used to the luxury. But being to make our house liveable during this heatwave and be able to have friends and family and friends of the kids over as a refuge is a blessing.

The only regret I have is that this house only has mechanical ventilation (blowing waste air out and sucking in air through vents above the windows) instead of balanced air. That would have made it possible to have an even climate through the house. As it is, only the three rooms with a unit in it are fresh. We fill two large buckets with the water from the airconditioning and use it to water the plants in the evening.

telesilla• 27 days ago

Thank you for using the water responsibly! Nothing I hate more than being dripped on while walking around the city from AC unit pipes hanging out the window.

user01815-2• 28 days ago

As a European living in a central European city that is way too hot these days: The central air conditioning system we bought when remodelling five years ago was the best investment of my life.

jmclnx2• 28 days ago

The rate the world is going, even people on the Arctic Circle will need A/C.

Where I grew up and live in the US, I had no real need for A/C until 4 or 5 years ago, a bedroom window fan was fine for the few real hot days. Now, I need A/C, but I have aged too :)

Over the years, hot days are getting far more common and hotter on ave. In the "old days" (tm) we could go all summer without reaching above 90F (32C). Once in a great while it would get above 90.

And as a kid (5+ decades ago) I remember me and my friends getting real excited when one day was suppose to reach 100F (38C). We spent all day checking the thermometer at my grandmother's house and when it hit 100, we celebrated.

Now, 100 is just a ho-hum day :(

cucumber3732842• 28 days ago

The rate the world is going, even people on the Arctic Circle will need A/C.

You're way too optimistic. At the rate the world is going they'll get it 30yr before they need it as the side effect of some highly engineered compliance solution to half baked environmental policy that pretends to be about heat pumps but was ghost written by a think tank owned by an HVAC billionare.

carlosrg• 28 days ago

I don’t understand the obsession the Americans have with claiming that we hate AC. Europe is not a country. There are countries where AC is more used. Here in Spain it’s common. It’s probably less common in other, less hot countries. Besides heat, countries with a lower GDP probably have less ACs installed than richer countries. So probably France have more AC-per-capita than Moldova, my guess is that something similar happens if you compare California with Mississippi. It depends. We have nothing against AC as a technology.

Kaibeezy4• 28 days ago

The Economist is British

cholantesh• 28 days ago

They don't have bylines, though, so individual authors could be of different nationalities.

ExoticPearTree4• 28 days ago

Besides heat, countries with a lower GDP probably have less ACs installed than richer countries.

You couldn't be more wrong about it. A 12k BTU unit is about ~ 250-300EUR + maybe 100EUR setting it up. Building that are almost collapsing have AC. Its a thing to have AC.

sgerenser3• 28 days ago

Mississippi, despite its much lower per capita income than California, has a much higher percentage of housing units with air conditioning (93% vs 72%). AC is now so inexpensive that whether or not a house has AC is mostly about average summer temperatures not income.

FullMetalBitch2• 28 days ago

Average price of AC instalation in Spain goes from 550€ to 5000€ depending on what kind of instalation, equipment and units. Average wage is between around 1300€ net per month.

In Spain it's not cheap.

Edit. And also local towns have rules, I can't just install one that have a device on the outer wall/window and I own the whole house, in the flats you depende on the community to decide.

FullMetalBitch2• 28 days ago

Even in Spain depends on the zone it can be everywhere or nowhere. In the north it's rare to find AC.

No one hates AC, it just wasn't needed.

rsynnott• 28 days ago

Besides heat, countries with a lower GDP probably have less ACs installed than richer countries.

I suspect that's actually not the case, because most of the richest European countries have climates where it's rarely necessary.

jltsiren• 28 days ago

California is a funny example, because the ocean is cold. If you live close to the coast, the nights are cool even during heat waves. Where I live, air conditioning is less useful than in Finland.

stasomatic3• 27 days ago

You should ask an American. Glad you asked, temperatures in Paris are of no concern to 99% of us in the US, we have our own merde to deal with. What's the big deal anyway, I had an AC unit hanging out of our concrete multi story bunker in Soviet Odessa. Some places are just hot and I am not gonna "man up" and keel over some ideology or architecture preservation, or I'd just move. The tech has been around for decades and has only gotten better and more efficient. Install AC, don't install it, swim in Seine if you must, buy a neck fan at Auchan or Carrefour, whatevs, Americans are pretty easy going, no matter the mother country and so are the Europeans™ , IME. We have other issues to tolerate or deal with for the next 2.5y, but that's a different thread. Cheers, mate, didn't want to come off nasty, I spent a considerable amount of time in Catalonia and Madrid, lovely everything.

dboreham• 28 days ago

I live in the USA. Houses around here don't have A/C. That's because until recently it wasn't needed.

Sweepi• 28 days ago

Its incredible how much better Italian houses/cities feel at 30C(86F) compared to e.g. German houses/cities at 30C.

While the adaption of solar + air-conditioners (better: reversible heat-pumps) will be a good thing, I hope the local/conventional methods to deal with heat are not forgotten.

DanielHB6• 28 days ago

It is because of insulation and lack of sun-mitigating apparatus (like awnings). Buildings with lots of insulation absorb heat all through the day and release it slowly at night.

lloeki3• 28 days ago

Can't read the article (paywalled) so I'm basing myself on what I see

Green electricity means never having to say sorry for lowering the thermostat

I literally just read some reports yesterday day about how AC can be a pathological solution.

It's not about the energy being green or not, it's that independently of the energy source AC is a heat pump, so it pumps heat out into the air, which makes the air inside cooler, but hotter outside; and for that, green or not, it needs to put in energy to do the work, which results in _even more heat_.

At scale a.k.a cities this creates measurable bubbles of heat (+1-2degC) around AC'd places.

As Desty Nova puts it in Gunnm (a.k.a Battle Angel Alita):

    Now becomes the past in an instant — and everyone will eventually die! Destiny triumphs over human knowledge and goes mad! That is the way of things! I spit upon this frail, crazed, world! I spit upon the Second Law of Thermodynamics!

Kaibeezy4• 28 days ago

Archive link is below

lloeki3• 28 days ago

I can't seem to be able to pass these damn captchas

spacechild12• 28 days ago

I literally just read some reports yesterday day about how AC can be a pathological solution.

That's what I have been wondering as well. When I was in Japan (which is notorious for using obscene amounts of AC), I once walked past the rear side of some buildings where all the AC vents were and you could clearly feel the heat these things are pumping into the city. How is this not creating a feedback loop?

ExoticPearTree4• 28 days ago

It's not about the energy being green or not, it's that independently of the energy source AC is a heat pump, so it pumps heat out into the air, which makes the air inside cooler, but hotter outside; and for that, green or not, it needs to put in energy to do the work, which results in _even more heat_.

What? If things would have worked as you say, we would have solved global warming in no time. Just open the windows and blow the cold air out and keep the inverter inside.

lloeki3• 28 days ago

If things would have worked as you say

They work _exactly_ as I say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump_and_refrigeration_cy...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics

Just open the windows and blow the cold air out and keep the inverter inside

This "just" seems to hint that you don't seem to quite be grasping the concepts and scale at hand:

- Assuming perfect efficiency and unlimited free energy, where would you even put the heat from outside?

- Since energy is neither free nor unlimited, the energy needs would be enormous+

- Since it is not perfectly efficient and the energy needs are so high, the amount of wasted energy (which is heat) would be colossal, and only make the problem worse

+ The heat causing global warming comes not from human activity but from the sun, the anthropogenic effect at play is that this energy from the sun is captured by greenhouse effect.

DanielHB6• 28 days ago

If you are in the market for a portable AC I highly recommend you watch this video first:

https://youtu.be/_-mBeYC2KGc

People seem to be catching on this and some brands now offer portable mini-splits ACs, I just bought this one (waiting for it to arrive though):

https://youtu.be/D5ApvRis9X8?t=45

However they are still quite expensive.

PashaGo• 28 days ago

If you live by the sea or on a boat, you don't need AC

orwin4• 28 days ago

I live by the sea, it was 28C last night, will be 30C tonight, I absolutely need AC. Sadly I have to get a mobile AC unit, which are the worst, but well :/

stavros2• 28 days ago

Install more renewables and more heatpumps, then we can climate-control our spaces with no guilt!

Kaibeezy4• 28 days ago

It seems like such an obvious conclusion. The article says the power demand for air conditioning, even at high levels of adoption, would be a “rounding error” within overall consumption. Why suffer?

ExoticPearTree4• 28 days ago

Some people are just a glutton for punishment.

mamonster• 28 days ago

We need AC in Switzerland yesterday. These last 2 weeks in Geneva have been crazy. Unfortunately with the amount of regulation on historical buildings it likely won't happen.

jillesvangurp• 28 days ago

We are in a modern office in Berlin with actual AC. I always joke that air conditioned offices are a bit science fiction in Germany. Most of the year the lack of AC is fine. But the summers can be hot and humid here. And today it's pretty toasty outside.

The big picture in Germany is that it needs to rethink its energy system from the ground up and it's a bit behind on that (a few decades).

People burn gas to stay warm in the winter. That gas has to be imported at great cost. It's completely stupid at this point to perpetuate that system. Stop putting gas boilers in new buildings already. That's a decision that should have been taken years ago.

Heatpumps work great and they can cool and heat. That should be the default at this point. It's not something that requires further studies or chin stroking (a national sport here in Germany, they are world champions being indecisive). This has been studied to death already.

Even if heat pumps use gas powered electricity plants, they would take a lot less gas. Because heatpumps are that effective.

From a system level point of view, mass deploying heat pumps would be an investment that should start paying off big time within 10-15 years. People think of this as cost rather than as an investment with a positive and very substantial ROI. There's a bit of an economic crisis here and a cost of living crisis. And the government is moving deck chairs around on the titanic instead of investing their way out of this as they should have started doing ages ago.

Many private home owners make this choice already of course. But on a normal sized apartment building with 20-40 apartments, the tenants have to pay through their nose for warm water and heating. There are a few million such buildings in Germany. Many buildings don't even have thermostats in their apartments (mine doesn't, built this century!!!). No smart meters either (seriously, wtf?!).

Germany needs a giant kick in the ass when it comes to their high energy bills. They are high because they are structurally doing all the wrong things and refusing to do smart, common sense things. Lots of hand wringing, not a lot of action over this.

thefz2• 28 days ago

Air conditioning is just a heat pump, so in a scenario in which all the indoor spaces are cooled, the outside temperature will rise significantly because all that energy must go somewhere, it does not magically disappear.

So AC is making the problem worse, or just worse for all those that are forced outside.

comrade1234• 28 days ago

The building I live in is like a fortress - all cement construction, another outer layer of stressed concrete panels, triple pane windows... very well-insulated. We have a ground temp heat exchanger its floor heating/cooling which has been more than adequate during this heatwave.

general1465• 28 days ago

I mean in Mediterranean AC are quite common, further north not so much because hot summer used be 1 week of temperatures +30 deg C which would mean that buying AC effectively for 1 week per year makes no sense.

However if we will start talking about a month or several months of hot weather, people will buy them kind of automatically.

redwood• 28 days ago

Humidity is the ultimate cause for the need of air conditioning. I don't believe European humidity levels approach levels in which a fan is not reasonable to cool off

ritcgab• 28 days ago

I wonder why the apartment buildings in the US never have mini splits but always use PTACs or window units. In my opinion, they suck.

ohm• 28 days ago

And US should learn to love mini split AC instead of the wall and window ones.

aa-jv• 28 days ago

Australian, living in central Europe (have lived in California, also) .. this isn't hot, mate.

Also, AC is for wimps.

Americans just like to shit on Europeans for trivial/nonsense things because it detracts from the heinous crimes the USA commits every day - which Americans don't really see, but the rest of the world does.

Its cute that Americans think Europeans don't want AC because Americans have AC. Europeans don't want war and genocide - Americans have plenty of that.

aragilar• 27 days ago

Personally, I think AC vs. no AC isn't the issue, it's the lack of fans and air circulation that is the problem. I suspect there are building where installing AC is going to be required, but the majority of building really just need to install fans.

Europeans should learn to love the air-conditioner

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