Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/microsoft-introduces-windows-phone-8/

by soupboy • 14 years ago

131 186 14 years ago

engadget.com

debacle• 14 years ago

This is more terrible news for Nokia.

microtonal3• 14 years ago

Windows Phone 8 is an operating system, not a phone.

eli3• 14 years ago

And is there an upgrade path from Nokia's current Windows phones to Windows Phone 8?

thejake• 14 years ago

But who is going to buy a Windows Phone 7 device now? Nokia's already poor device sales is going to fall off a cliff.

cantbecool• 14 years ago

Not even an upgrade even for the Lumina?

KeyBoardG7• 14 years ago

Lumia will get WinPhone 7.8 which includes all the UI updates but leaves out the features which requires more advanced hardware.

onetwothreefour2• 14 years ago

LOL.

Native languages do not "require more advanced hardware", since you can already use native languages on iOS and Android hardware.

Are you people brainwashed? WP7 is dead.

druiid• 14 years ago

Wow, really Microsoft? You don't know better by now that if you're going to release a platform, hype is up like crazy and then basically leave people hanging... that it kills hardware/software communities?

The WP8 features sounds great, but where does that leave my Lumia 900? I really love the phone and well, it sounds like I'm SOOL.

toyg• 14 years ago

Welcome to the Nokia experience. I bought a N900 in 2010, and I was literally thrown under the bus not once (when Maemo was replaced by Meego), not twice (when the N9 debuted with a completely different UI) but three times (when they switched to WP7 even before the N9 was shipped).

Meanwhile MS was busy killing off WinMobile, then Kin, and now WP7.

And they wonder how Apple can get such faithful developers... A real mistery...

barista12• 14 years ago

Glad you didn't go android. Because their upgrade experience is not any different.

robomartin2• 14 years ago

Microsoft needs to get with it and provide video of these events.

ghurlman• 14 years ago

Live stream: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit

_mayo• 14 years ago

http://live.Twit.tv is live streaming the event with commentary.

cryptoz3• 14 years ago

> incompatible with current devices

Interesting. This may well be the right move for the long-term, but they're going to end up with a lot of angry early adopters right now. Android upgrades look nice all of a sudden.

ttol• 14 years ago

I think cutting all the legacy is a good move -- start over from scratch. They have the wherewithal to round developer support (and also leverage their Xbox relationships), so cutting baggage is a good idea.

glhaynes5• 14 years ago

How much legacy is there? It doesn't seem like Windows Phone 7 handsets have been out that long... and my impression wasn't that they were generally extremely low-specced.

sjwright12• 14 years ago

> I think cutting all the legacy is a good move

Microsoft clearly agree with you, because they seem to be doing that with every generation of Windows Phone.

microtonal3• 14 years ago

I have a Windows Phone (Lumia 710) besides my iPhone, that I bought two weeks ago. The phone itself was released in Europe in November 2011. And now it's outdated/legacy already?

It breaks trust. How would I know that if I buy a WP 8 phone that it will be supported with upgrades a year down the line?

KeyBoardG7• 14 years ago

Its not entirely a start over from scratch. Every WP7 app will work going forward. I do agree with the move though. Its better than having a bunch of old phones running WP8 with a poor experience.

huggyface6• 14 years ago

Legacy? For reals?

WP7 is much younger than Android and the iPhone. Already they're cutting out the "legacy"?

WrkInProgress4• 14 years ago

They are bringing some features from WP8 to current devices (at least it seems so), like the new start screen, etc.

So besides support for NFC, dual core, new resolutions - it appears that most of the software based updates are coming to current devices in the form of WP 7.8

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/20/3096945/windows-phone-7-8-...

saturdaysaint3• 14 years ago

Application support is a bigger concern than 8.0 features.

easyfrag• 14 years ago

More importantly Microsoft just Osborned Nokia's current product line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

betterth• 14 years ago

They didn't have to! -- what they just did was screw themselves in the branding (and that's it).

They've created a new update, Windows Phone 7.8 that will rollout to current Nokia devices and other Windows Phone 7.5 devices.

It will include many of the new UX features, such as the new home page, etc.

But as WP8 is changed so much on a fundamental level, it makes no sense to port that to legacy hardware. They're reenvisioning the OS -- so the current Nokia phones won't support higher resolutions and multicore processors. That's ok! They don't have the hardware!

This is exactly what Apple does -- limited updates for legacy devices.

Only Microsoft was stupid enough to call it Windows 7.8 instead of Windows 8 (for legacy devices).

It's all in the branding and since they're bringing up the major features that legacy devices support, they should have just called it Windows 8. Consumers don't care about the distinction, if it looks like WP8, it's WP8.

IanDrake2• 14 years ago

I have a HTC Titan. I'll get the new start screen feature and a few other updates in WP7.8. WP8 is really about supporting hardware that doesn't exist on my phone anyway.

That said, after WP8 goes out, MS really needs to step up there game with software updates. Having to get the carrier and manufacture on board to release an update has effectively made updates impossible.

simba-hiiipower2• 14 years ago

Definitely agree about it being the right move for the long-term; Microsoft tends to have a bad habit of sacrificing performance and features for the sake of supporting old systems, glad to see this is changing.

As for all us ‘early adopters’, I for one don’t mind at all. There are some features of the new OS that simply aren’t supported by current-generation WP hardware or just wouldn’t perform well on it. I’d rather not get an update than get one that compromises the performance of my device (which I love as-is anyway) or one that seriously fragments the platform.

And, the way I see it, if WP8’s future is one of greater integration with W8 and Xbox, and Microsoft can really deliver on their ‘3 Screens & The Cloud’ vision [1], and this decision is integral to that (which it seems to be), then I’m fully on-board with it.

Also, they just announced that all existing Windows Phone 7 devices will get an update, to ‘Windows Phone 7.8’, which will bring all the UI changes and many of the new WP8 features. Most importantly, they’ve stated that all non-native code WP8 apps will work on WP7. I think that's the most important thing anyway and this approach makes for a good middle-of-the road solution. It allows developers to focus on just one platform and gives (the admittedly few of us) current WP7 owners continued access to new apps and features.

[1] http://blogs.msdn.com/b/stevecla01/archive/2009/05/21/three-...

untog2• 14 years ago

they’ve stated that all non-native code WP8 apps will work on WP7.

Where did they say that?

ConstantineXVI3• 14 years ago

Seems to be an odd decision to share the kernel with Win8, but not (explicitly) the WinRT SDK. It would seem in Microsoft's best interest to make sure bringing apps between the two is a recompile away; the way it's being phrased the SDK doesn't sound like it's absolutely 100% compatible.

weiran• 14 years ago

Has this been explicitly stated? I'm hoping they do unify under the single WinRT framework.

ConstantineXVI3• 14 years ago

They've only said "minimal code changes", "two days of work"; also only mentioned native code in the context of games and nothing to suggest support for HTML/JS-based apps (which would imply WinRT support). "Recompile + UI tweaks" would be a headline feature for the SDK, not stating such outright leads me to believe this isn't the case.

EDIT: just said that the CLR is now identical between phone and W8, but again "share more code", still not naming WinRT.

glhaynes5• 14 years ago

What is it about its requirements that keep it from running on anything that exists today? The article just seems to talk about how it can support higher specs? (I ask because it'd better be a really, really good reason that it can't run on anything existing because that doesn't seem like good news for anybody.)

wavephorm3• 14 years ago

I imagine a lot of RIM and Google executives are getting a twitch in their eye right about now. If these new devices live up to their hype I can easily see them supplant Android as the "anything but Apple" option.

saturdaysaint3• 14 years ago

Yep. The real tragedy of fragmentation is that Android still lacks any kind of brand power - they're the phone equivalent of yesterday's faceless beige windows towers. If Microsoft actually ship this in 2012, and have someone mildly competent in marketing, I wouldn't be surprised to see most American users once again choosing between MS and Apple.

glhaynes5• 14 years ago

I'm not really sure whether it's true or not that Android doesn't have brand power. I mean, it's not as strong as "iPhone", certainly, and I don't have any specs to show, but I sure notice "Android!" on signs in front of cellular shops a lot... and there's a giant green Android robot balloon on the top of a little wireless shop just down the road. Even my non-techie friends say things like "Is that an iPhone or a Droid [sic]?"...

erikpukinskis• 14 years ago

That's not a tragedy for Google, that's their game plan. They want their apps and services on every "faceless beige box" in the world. The market for cheap generic consumer electronics is not going away.

huggyface6• 14 years ago

I can easily see them supplant Android as the "anything but Apple" option.

Do you really imagine that the hundreds of millions of Android users chose "anything but Apple"?

This mirrors the iPad discussion. People want a device to fill needs. Anyone who thinks this isn't competition with the iPhone is an imbecile.

wavephorm3• 14 years ago

  Do you really imagine that the hundreds of millions of Android users chose "anything but Apple"?

Yes I believe this is true.

There are very few redeeming qualities that an Android tablet has over an iPad. Likewise the people I know with Android phones either couldn't afford an iPhone, don't want one due to philosophical issues, or just wanted a simple feature-less cell phone and an Android phone was the same price.

People do not desire Android devices... they tolerate them. That's why Google should be afraid of these new Microsoft tablets and phones -- people already desire them in a way I have never heard anyone talk about any android device ever created in the past 3 years.

WiseWeasel3• 14 years ago

It's strange to me that the company once renowned for maintaining backwards compatibility and established workflows well past what most customers might expect or demand has recently been so blasé about throwing their installed base under the bus. It's becoming hard to remember that Microsoft was once synonymous with a stable development platform.

Just from a UX point of view, starting with the ribbon interface in Office 2007, it seems like the company has become much more willing to change things around drastically without any apparent effort to help their customers make the transition gracefully. The Win Mobile to Win Phone 7 to Win Phone 8 transition has been equally disjointed, and the Windows 8 release seems to bring that level of adventurism to their bread-and-butter desktop platform.

Are these people regular crazy, or crazy like a fox?

phren0logy2• 14 years ago

>blasé about throwing their installed base under the bus.

What user base? I for one am thrilled to see Microsoft responding with what seems to be an appropriate level of urgency.

WiseWeasel3• 14 years ago

Does that mean that the architecture of Win Phone 7 was a mistake? That it was never really part of a long-term strategy to transition from Win Mobile to Win Phone 8? Does Microsoft really intend to churn through platforms that quickly? It makes you wonder how far ahead they're planning things out over there, and whether this is a platform you should hitch your wagon to as a developer.

stewie22• 14 years ago

yes, finally supports C++.

forrestthewoods• 14 years ago

Not sure why this was downvoted, C++ support is huge. The biggest thing holding Win Phone 7 back was requiring C#. Meant every iOS/Android app needed to be rewritten from scratch which obviously isn't going to happen for anything but the absolutely most popular stuff.

stewie22• 14 years ago

Yes, C++ is the most power efficient programming language. I have been waiting for this feature.

desigooner2• 14 years ago

I get a chuckle out of reading people's views w.r.t. Microsoft. There are a good number who complain about lack of innovation & how Microsoft invests too much time in supporting legacy systems and that they should totally get rid of the CE core. Then there's the other end of the spectrum where Microsoft is stupid to stop supporting certain platforms because they're clearly not thinking about the users who use those systems.

laconian• 14 years ago

I think this is inevitable when a company targets a diverse set of demographics. What works for one customer might be disastrous for another.

KeyBoardG7• 14 years ago

People would damn MS either way. They could've updated older WP7 devices only to have them run slow and have newer apps not work correctly due to missing hardware features. As a developer, that'd be nightmare to support.

RyanMcGreal• 14 years ago

Joel Spolsky famously wrote about those competing imperatives in a 2004 essay on the API war:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

"There are two opposing forces inside Microsoft, which I will refer to, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as The Raymond Chen Camp and The MSDN Magazine Camp."

The former is obsessed with backwards compatibility, and the latter is obsessed with the Next New Thing. Spolsky's thesis was that the latter won out, to Microsoft's long-term detriment.

barista12• 14 years ago

Spolsky worked at Microsoft years ago. Not sure how relevant and current his knowledge is...

Danieru• 14 years ago

Well that explains why Raymond Chen's blog is called The Old New Thing.

duaneb2• 14 years ago

That's funny - my hatred of Windows almost entirely boils down to their reluctance to chuck old and horrible APIs (see windows.h). I'm not sure how much this is true anymore.

fratido• 14 years ago

"Compiling in the cloud" - So i'll have to give my sources to Microsoft? Great for security checking, but hey - they can read my code and gain knowledge from it? That's just doesn't feel right.

kineticflow• 14 years ago

>So i'll have to give my sources to Microsoft?

No, they never said that. In fact, just now (during the developer part of the presentation) the presenter mentioned that it will "just work".

bztzt2• 14 years ago

Compiled from bytecode

sjwright12• 14 years ago

When Steve Jobs returned to Apple, he made it really clear that Apple's job wasn't to beat Microsoft. Apple then delivered on that assessment and created entirely new markets for themselves.

Sadly, somehow, Microsoft went all XOR on our asses. I'm still baffled about how Microsoft is still trying to out-Apple Apple when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune).

Microsoft are kings of productivity software and the corporate desktop. They own business communications. They own corporate email. So when it comes to revitalizing their phone product, they focus on the twittering tweens?

Is it just me, or is it not freaking obvious that Microsoft should focus on building the ultimate business phone? Something that corporations around the world would deploy to every single employee in a heartbeat?

Hey, RIM is struggling. Perhaps Microsoft could stand to fork out a Skype-sized bundle of cash to buy them out.

cube13• 14 years ago

>Is it just me, or is it not freaking obvious that Microsoft should fire their phone strategists, and focus on building the ultimate business phone? Something that competes with Blackberry? Something that corporations around the world would deploy to every single employee in a heartbeat?

That's what they're doing: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/window...

IanDrake2• 14 years ago

>focus on building the ultimate business phone? That's what WP8 is. It has much better support for enterprise systems.

rome2• 14 years ago

Windows 8 has native Active Directory support for device and user management. That along with ActiveSync and I think the phones and tablets are for the enterprise.

snaky2• 14 years ago

ActiveSync, huh? After completely broke direct sync with desktop Outlook in WP?

meta• 14 years ago

I don't think twittering teens is their target market.

"To help tell the story, we introduce our muses, Anna, Miles and their son, Luca. They represent classic Life Maximizers – busy personally and busy professionally, constantly juggling priorities, settled rather than seeking, and valuing technology as a means to an end, a way to get things done." http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=189338

And most of the "screenshot" images I have seen involve young families with 'hard working' parents that are trying to balance work and life 'in more demanding times'. Kids are almost always featured (not the target, but within).

sjwright12• 14 years ago

> I don't think twittering teens is their target market.

It definitely was with the Kin.

It might as well have been with WP7.

It's good to see this has changed somewhat with WP8.

pook1e2• 14 years ago

> I'm still baffled about how Microsoft is still trying to out-Apple Apple when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune).

I don't see how they're trying to out-Apple Apple in this case. They're releasing a mobile operating system for third party vendors to create hardware for. Remove "mobile" and this is the exact same thing they've been doing all along.

> Microsoft are kings of productivity software and the corporate desktop. They own business communications. They own corporate email. So when it comes to revitalizing their phone product, they focus on the twittering tweens?

Are you forgetting that they're also still king of the consumer desktop? I highly doubt that their 85% market share[1][2] is business alone. Apple isn't selling more computers than all manufacturers combined[3].

[1] http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-shar... [2] http://www.statowl.com/operating_system_market_share.php [3] http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/01/hp-reclaims-top-spot-in-p...

sjwright12• 14 years ago

> Are you forgetting that they're also still king of the consumer desktop?

They're probably still the majority shareholder, but I wouldn't call them kings. And if they are kings, they're leading a dying kingdom. Have you seen the iPad sales numbers recently?

noblethrasher• 14 years ago

There are a few billion people living in presently up-and-coming developing countries that will jump straight to the ubiquitous smartphone era instead of first going through the ubiquitous "personal computer" phase.

sjwright12• 14 years ago

Awesome business strategy: compete with cheap unlicensed Android phones.

runjake2• 14 years ago

> Something that competes with Blackberry?

The BlackBerry is pretty much dead. This is now largely the iPhone's market (being the only modern smartphone platform with completely solid Exchange support), so Microsoft is back to competing with Apple again.

Android has some level of Exchange support, as well. But what that entails depends on the OEM and their modifications (eg. Exchange support on an HTC Android device is completely different than what you get on a Galaxy Nexus, or a Motorola "BLUR" device.

HorizonXP3• 14 years ago

Legacy BBOS is for all intents and purposes, dead.

BlackBerry 10 hasn't launched yet, but it's not exactly dead. Those of us actively developing for it are seeing lots of progress, and feel that RIM is far from dead.

snaky2• 14 years ago

Hmm. Is current state of Exchange support in WP7 really worse than in iOS? Just asking, if someone did any comparition.

CamperBob2• 14 years ago

Something that corporations around the world would deploy to every single employee in a heartbeat?

That's not necessarily up to IT anymore, thanks to the iPhone. To achieve your goal, they would have to build something that those employees insist on bringing to work under pain of termination, as they did the iPhone.

Nothing in Microsoft's DNA -- and specifically in Steve Ballmer's DNA -- would permit the creation of such a device.

barista12• 14 years ago

I think iPhone started the BYOD movement because it was so much better than the rest of the devices for quite some time. Its only now that android and windows phone are catching up. If you see there are only marginal differences between the top of the line devices now. So the "insist on bringing to work" that you talk about is not strong enough as long as the device is a easy replacement. Both Android and I think windows phone with v8 are getting there. So IT should not feel resistance to deploy these. Besides with Microsoft's familiarity and IT friendly tools and mindset, they might actually favor a windows phone over iPhone which does not have features such as company specific app store.

drzaiusapelord• 14 years ago

MS isn't going after Apple. It probably can't, but it knows that if it delivers tablets and phones that can integrate with AD, Exchange, and other enterprise services and be a lot less locked down, they can steal Android's lunch and create a business friendly phone/tablet ecosystem.

If Joe and Jane Public buy those, that's great too. Oh, and they will because they'll feel comfortable with Windows, especially if they are told "Oh btw, you can have Windows on your phone and tablet as well as Office now, why bother with whatever Android is or that Apple stuff."

Its also a little silly to expect MS to not try to compete in these areas. Their Win8/Tablet strategy is big and risky and may or may not pay off, but conceding that realm to Apple and Google seems foolish. Personally, I like the idea of a "super tablet" that replaces my laptop entirely as opposed to this odd device that kinda sorta fits between my phone and my laptop.

huggyface6• 14 years ago

MS isn't going after Apple.

Microsoft is absolutely going after Apple. Apple is making inroads into business -- and with that influence and control over enterprise choices -- and Microsoft rightly sees the threat. On the Venn diagram of needs that a device satisfies, WP7 and now 8 overlaps the iPhone far more than it overlaps Android.

Oh, and they will because they'll feel comfortable with Windows, especially if they are told "Oh btw, you can have Windows on your phone and tablet as well as Office now, why bother with whatever Android is or that Apple stuff."

That was what led to the Windows CE disaster. Of course this time around they're trying it in the opposite direction, trying to force a smartphone UI on desktops. We'll see how that works out.

Mind you I wholly disagree with the GP, and I think it too was drawn from the well of delusion: Microsoft saw that the separation of enterprise and consumer has blurred. Trying to out-RIM the Blackberry -- as it fails -- would be a hilariously dumb move at this point. People want to carry one device and it needs to competently cover both sides of the equation.

ja272• 14 years ago

Before Windows Phone 7 even shipped, I was talking to my Microsoftie friends and said that I thought there was a great opportunity to build a phone that had the best Microsoft enterprise (Exchange and Sharepoint) integration, good free developer tools, and a good app marketplace with better organization and discovery than Apple's. Now throw in great Skype integration and Office support and they could have a good business phone. But if the phone doesn't have Dropbox, Pandora, and dozens of other high-profile apps users are already using on other platforms, that's a hard sell to anyone outside of IT departments.

I think there's also a window to build a decent consumer phone with great XBox integration. Make the phone essentially compete with Wii U and have great stand-alone mobile games too. That could be a great phone for twittering teens. You just have to get on other carriers besides AT&T though.

barista12• 14 years ago

>> doesn't have Dropbox, Pandora, and dozens of other high-profile apps Some of these apps were limited because older windows phone did not have native code support and had a limited reach. Now with shared core with windows desktop and tablet, a developer has opportunity to write for windows phone and then run it on all devices. That sounds damn attractive a proposition.

Besides the argument is losing its steam pretty fast. With already 100?K apps out there the list of apps missing is growing smaller every day and in most cases a replacement is already available.

KeyBoardG7• 14 years ago

Microsoft is already eating RIMs lunch without a buy out. A lot of RIM's enterprise software is tailor written for the old BBOS and wouldn't do MS a lot of good.

HorizonXP3• 14 years ago

Which is why RIM is trying to move their expertise into areas such as Mobile Fusion, allowing administrators to managed BYOD in the enterprise. Imagine BlackBerry BES services on your personal Android or iPhone, so you can access your company's assets in a secure manner. It's something RIM is working towards, and is honestly something that Microsoft's culture wouldn't allow.

powertower• 14 years ago

> when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune).

That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure.

Every time Zune has been brought up for discussion here, I've seen primarily two types of responses...

From people that actually owned a Zune: Fantastic product (better than my Apple iPod).

From people that never owned or tried a Zune: It's absolute crap (I've never seen any of my iPod friends with one).

The iPod users verbal diarrhea was so thick, that MS's marketing department couldn't cut through it. One iPod user would regurgitate it down another's mouth, and soon everyone had fed on the same crap.

Watching their "network effect" was kind of impressive.

e03179• 14 years ago

Agree.

The Zune Pass worked great for me ($10/mo) to listen to all the music in their library on multiple devices and computers.

I've said for a while that if Apple released a subscription-based iTunes that a lot of people would use it...perhaps even rave about it.

And then Spotify came along which replaced my Zune Pass membership.

michaelbuckbee• 14 years ago

I played around (and rather liked the Zune) when it came out, but as with many of the devices discussed here it is more about the ecosystem than the device.

I was very put off by moves that Microsoft had made with Plays4Sure[1] (oh the irony) and worried that they would do similar with Zune Marketplace.

1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure

Apple-Guy• 14 years ago

Microsoft's failures extend way far beyond the Zune: http://obamapacman.com/2012/06/microsoft-tablet-pc-mobile-de...

csmeder2• 14 years ago

I was given a Zune. It was well made and easy to navigate, much better than the Archos I bought before I bought my iPod. If the Zune had been released before the iPod, it would have been an impressive piece of hardware. A great product! However it wasn't. I tried really hard to enjoy my Zune. It felt like a waste just to throw it away.

The problem was that it was almost as good as my iPod. Releasing a product that is almost as good as a product that came out 3 years earlier doesn't work. If you are going to release 3 years late, you have to be better. I agree with the above comment, Microsoft will fail it tries to beat apple where it is strong. Microsoft either needs to find a "Steve Jobs" who can drastically change its company culture or stop tying to compete with apple on consumer products.

Note: I am being generous when I say it was almost as good. It had downsides. In particular the companion software to load up music was a bad experience.

My guess is that when people say they loved their Zune, its because they wanted to love it. If you gave the same person an iPod (and they were being impartial) my guess is they would choose the iPod.

However, I don't think its likely these Zune owners were impartial. It would not be a big surprise if most people who bought and defend the Zune are Microsoft Zealots that want to find reasons to prove Microsoft is great and Apple is bad.

duaneb2• 14 years ago

> That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure.

I think it is. I liked the zune myself and would have switched if it could sync with my mac. However, it's undeniable that the Zune was a failure. I think the OP's point remains true.

fidotron• 14 years ago

I had one, and while the Zune devices were great the PC software was the worst media navigation stuff since Sony's Minidisc<->PC efforts. The sad thing is MS appear to have expanded the Zune PC thing to cover the entire OS.

sjwright12• 14 years ago

I'm sure the Zune was a fantabulous product. It was still an utterly failed strategy, because by that point, the game wasn't a competition about how nice to use the product was.

The same is true for phones today.

gouranga• 14 years ago

I just sold my Lumia 710 and replaced it with a 10 year old Nokia 3310. Looks like i picked the right time i.e. Before the value bombs.

For ref it was sold because the battery life is abysmal, there is no upgrade path and the mic doesn't work properly.

ja272• 14 years ago

I suspect the lack of upgrade path was planned well before the Lumia 900 actually found a bit of traction with consumers. Wave goodbye to that momentum. That would be a big blow to Nokia. Does that drive their price down even lower until Microsoft buys them out? We'll see.

zdw• 14 years ago

iPhone 3GS, released June 2009 and iPhone 4, release June 2010, both get iOS 6 (albeit with fewer features than an iPhone 4S).

No Windows Phone 7 is getting Windows Phone 8.

Supporting older hardware = brand loyalty, and environmental responsibility.

Yes an iPhone costs more - it's also going to be updated for longer...

rome2• 14 years ago

Current Windows 7 phones are getting updates, 7.8. Contrast this with the original iPad which won't get ios 6 and it was released in 2010.

pohl• 14 years ago

There's a legitimate reason for excluding the original iPad, though: it has to push four times the pixels as the iPhone 3GS, while still being limited by the same 256M of RAM that the 3GS has. Apparently at least one essential application (my guess would be Mobile Safari at least, probably many apps) couldn't provide an acceptable user experience within that constraint.

Perhaps there's a legit reason for the current Windows 7 phones, though. Does anybody know?

toksaitov2• 14 years ago

The original iPad got 2 major updates from iOS 3 to iOS 5.

shinratdr4• 14 years ago

It already got two major updates though. Hardly the same situation, Microsoft has just been neglecting their older phones for quite some time now. I wouldn't exactly cheer them for that.

pilgrim689• 14 years ago

"albeit with fewer features than an iPhone 4S"

And that's pretty much what's happening with WP7. Windows Phone users are getting an upgrade [1], but it won't be as fully-featured as WP8. Apple just did the slick move of calling both the partial update and the full update by the same name.

[1] http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-8-brings-wp8-ui-to-...

binarycrusader• 14 years ago

Except that it's not the same.

You'll actually get iOS 6 on a iPhone 3GS, whereas Microsoft is backporting select features to the older Windows Phone 7 OS.

That means still no native code, etc.

toksaitov2• 14 years ago

With each version of iOS, developers can access new API on older devices. With Windows Phone 7.8 it will not be possible to access shared native API set.

illumin82• 14 years ago

So you get a new UI; who cares? What is truly important is application compatibility, and someone with a 3 year old iPhone 3GS will still be able to run brand new apps made for iOS 6.0. On the other hand, someone in a store buying a Nokia Lumia phone today might not be able to run apps released 3 months from now.

Don't you see the problem?

WrkInProgress4• 14 years ago

Whenever MS does one of these presentations, they always seem to get 90% of the way there in terms of polish, focus and message.

Why are they even bothering with branding "Windows Phone 7.8" ?

They should have just named the update "Windows Phone 8 Legacy" and the actual WP 8, "Windows Phone 8".

RobAtticus• 14 years ago

Might just me, but I prefer "Windows Phone 7.8" vs "Windows Phone 8 Legacy". It's shorter, and when given a short explanation I get what it is. If you call it "Windows Phone 8 Legacy" people are going to wonder why they can't install WP8 apps on it, after all, it has WP8 in the name.

Edit: forgot the word "apps"

islisis• 14 years ago

The correct name is "Windows Phone ME"

KeyBoardG7• 14 years ago

As a Windows user now I have to decide between a 720p WindowsPhone8 phone or the Windows 8 RT ARM tablet.

forgotAgain• 14 years ago

Remember those WP7 commercials that called Android phones betas? Well I guess Microsoft was having a beta program of their own. Such nice guys these Redmond folk are.

nsns• 14 years ago

Am I the only one who thinks of both Microsoft and Apple as simply two of the biggest gamblers in the game? No one knows yet how the recent technological changes will look when the market becomes stable, it is too early to tell. Apple has gambled quite good three or four times in recent years, as did MS before them, and both were always at each other's throats (Jobs' accused MS of stealing Windows from Apple). Both have had their low points. While there's a new big gambler in town (Google), the picture hasn't really changed much for the past 30 years.

robomartin2• 14 years ago

If Microsoft delivers on the Phone <-> Tablet <-> Desktop connection, with:

  - A decent ecosystem
  - Free from totalitarian-regime control
  - Access and compatibility with a wide range of current hardware devices:
    - USB mice/trackball
    - USB external drives
    - Monitors
    - Keyboards
    - Printers
    - Speakers
    - HID devices
    - Bluetooth without requiring a proprietary chip
    - Non-proprietary peripherals in general
    - USB memory sticks
    - And generally anything that can connect to the device
    - Without requiring the King to bless what you are doing
  - Freedom from the 30% death-tax on mobile devices
  - Freedom to write any app you care to for mobile and tablet without 
    the need for Royal authorization
  - No requirement to buy super-custom-secret chips to do hardware
  - No onerous requirements for expensive approval process on hardware
  - Easy and publisher-controlled app updates
  - Decent device pricing
  - Wide availability
  - Interoperability with existing systems
  - Application compatibility (Desktop <-> Tablet)
  - Sensible app deployment requirements without having to package megabytes of
    crap you don't need for a phone just because you also want to offer the 
    app on a tablet that has greater resolution.
  - And a few more things I can't think of right now

I, for one, will cast my vote and support their efforts both as a developer and consumer. If anything because I have a very strong feeling that Apple needs serious competition to remain in check. They have taken a far too totalitarian approach to their offerings and it is not getting any better.

Of course, I'll continue to support Apple as well. Just hope they see the light and consider taking off their sometimes-not-so-benevolent-dictator hat.

slowpoke• 14 years ago

>They have taken a far too totalitarian approach to their offerings and it is not getting any better.

You might have missed the part about Microsoft being equally as eager to lock down everything they can get away with. This isn't going to make things better, it's going to be worse.

aqjq• 14 years ago

All upgrade controversies aside, I think WP8 has some great features and look forward to checking it out when it releases.

shellox• 14 years ago

Microsoft have absolutely no taste..I would probably go to the bathroom if I want to see tiles.

cma• 14 years ago

Apple have absolutely no taste..I would at the insides of an animal if I wanted to see shiny things.

Microsoft introduces Windows Phone 8

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