Unicomp's "New" Model M Keyboard

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M

by Phileosopher • 2 years ago

134 185 2 years ago

jseliger2• 2 years ago

I used one for years and liked it, but, after switching to an ergonomic keyboard, I wouldn't want to primarily move back to a standard one.

bibliotekka• 2 years ago

After years of typing now I must continually adjust angle and type of keyboard to avoid stressing various RSIs too much. Standard keyboards now just hurt, even if they're nice.

slig• 2 years ago

Which ergonomic model did you choose?

NegativeLatency• 2 years ago

Not OP, but I use the kinesis advantage but if I was going to pick one again I'd go with the ergodox, also had a keyboardio but switching between types is kinda tricky and annoying

jseliger2• 2 years ago

A Kinesis Advtange: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-k.... Well, a series of them. Now I have one from Upgrade Keyboards: https://upgradekeyboards.com/collections/kinesis-advantage36... with "Box White" keys. Very nice!

My guess is that, for most people, myself included, once one has invested the time in learning any particular ergonomic keyboard (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, Ergodox, whatever), the switching costs are annoying that one just keeps using it

A small number of people seem to get obsessed with the narcissism of small differences in terms of switches, or minute aspects of positioning, or similar matters, but I find that one hits diminishing returns quickly and it's less the keyboard than what's done with it.

Paradigma11• 2 years ago

I am using https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ and loving it.

__mharrison__2• 2 years ago

I used the EnduraPro for a few years. Moved to more ergonomic keyboards (ErgoDox and now Lily58) when my fingers and wrists started complaining. Have written multiple books with the new keyboards with no pain. YMMV.

paulmd2• 2 years ago

I actually felt that the model M specifically gave me my first taste of RSI. The spring force is so much higher that after a while my fingers and wrists were just flatly sore.

The problems began after I started gaming on it - and I'd been using them for work for a long time before that (5 years?). You tend to push a lot and push hard when gaming to be sure they key activates, and it's not really ideal for your fingers. And yes, they're "not good for gaming" but that's normally about the deadzone and reset, not just outright causing RSI.

I ended up going through a period of trying out some other stuff, ended up with Rosewill RK9100BR, and then just went to a keychron k8 instead. I have a couple of those now.

samatman3• 2 years ago

I'm in the same boat, but if Unicomp ever manufactures a split-key I might be willing to forgo thumb clusters and ortholinear layout. Might be. I do love me a buckling spring.

cduzz3• 2 years ago

If you're using a PC you can likely just get 2 keyboards. It'll use a little more desktop space but you can put them wherever you want. I've found that the mac doesn't respect "left keyboard shift right keyboard letter a for a capital A" which is annoying.

klooney• 2 years ago

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/ortholinear-split-er... you could have both

tiltowait6• 2 years ago

Three things worth noting:

1. It's out of stock, and I don't know if Ellipse is going to make more. 2. Even if it were "in stock", it would take months (possibly/probably more than a year) to get. 3. It requires two USB cables. This is stated plainly on the site, but it's buried in the numbered list of "important notes".

I have one. Unfortunately, I haven't used it for more than a few minutes due to that last point. I had envisioned using it on my work system, but requiring two USB cables kills it for me. I don't know if the Mac is unique in this, but it only registers modifier keys for the keyboard issuing them—that is, holding shift, cmd, etc. on one side of the keyboard doesn't work for the other side. For instance, cmd+o doesn't work unless the cmd key is on the right as well.

There are utilities you can install to get this functionality working, but I can't install them on my work machine (and even on my personal system, I couldn't get them to work, so YMMV). I had high hopes for this keyboard, but it's likely I'll sell it due to problems with my setup.

Mechanically, it's exactly what you'd expect: a Model F in a reasonably (if outdated) ergonomic package. While a leap ahead of standard layouts, the Ergodox has always had some pretty big flaws, especially in the thumb cluster keys.

In terms of feeling, the Model F is definitely different than the Model M. Some days I'd call it better; some days I'd call it worse. Claims that it's night-and-day are exaggerated, IMO. (I have extensive experience with the New Model F F62 and various Model Ms over the years, from old IBMs to modern Unicomps.)

rootusrootus2• 2 years ago

I've got one of these. It's difficult to beat the feel of those keys, that is for sure. But at full tilt I think the neighbors across the street can hear me typing. So it primarily sits in my closet these days, while I use a much quieter (but far from silent) CODE mechanical keyboard.

geophile6• 2 years ago

Yeah, it's loud. My wife complains about it. (I didn't realize how loud until I got hearing aids.)

Fortunately, we have offices far apart from each other.

h2odragon2• 2 years ago

I've had complaints that a burst of typing sounded like a spray paint can being shaken.

I beat other kinds of keyboards to death in months. My unicomp is into year 4.

I had a stack of real Model M's from 87 to 93, that I got from a school system and refurbished in '97. Those lasted me an average of 3 years each. I got the unicomp after trying a few of the other brands in the gap after pounding the last of that stack into dysfunction.

pkulak• 2 years ago

Are they louder than blue switches???

jachee2• 2 years ago

Yeah, it’s a whole different kind of noise. Rather than a monotonic chorus of clicks, it’s a polyphonic cacophony of clicks, clacks, plonks thunks, rattles and the occasional twang, like only a buckling spring switch can offer.

I love mine. But I also heavily rely on noise-cancellation when I’m screen sharing or video calling.

nonethewiser• 2 years ago

Unicomp has been around making essentially model M keyboards for a long time. How new is this new one?

BirAdam• 2 years ago

It’s a new mold for the plastics as the original IBM/Lexmark one was wearing out. Also, it comes with USB and meta keys.

rootusrootus2• 2 years ago

They've been making these with USB for many years. And meta keys, AFAIK, though the most recent meta keys have pictures where some of the older ones had blanks.

jtriangle• 2 years ago

This is quite cool, but I really don't understand some people's affinity toward buckling spring switches, they're loud and odd feeling, not nearly as consistent as anything cherry or their alternatives are offering.

geophile6• 2 years ago

I really don't understand some people's affinity toward Cherry and similar keys, they're quiet and odd feeling.

TillE• 2 years ago

I think a lot of nostalgia built up in that ~10 year period where it was really difficult to find a new mechanical keyboard, so the old Model M (and to a lesser extent the Apple Extended Keyboard) developed something of a cult following.

Personally I've settled on Kailh BOX White switches as pleasantly clicky without too much resistance.

doublepg233• 2 years ago

My model Ms are older than me, I don't think it's nostalgia.

lazzlazzlazz• 2 years ago

I have one of these, having never used one growing up (so lacking the nostalgia) and I love the thing. To this day, no other keyboard can compete in terms of synchronizing the tactile "click" and the onscreen response. The only reason I don't use it more widely is because it's so loud and large.

devin• 2 years ago

Topre switches give you a spring and a dome. I prefer it and used to have a unicomp that was my daily driver for years.

neom2• 2 years ago

For me, it's straight nostalgia, although I do think they feel great. I learned to type on a 5150, so it feels very "right" for me. I'd imagine a lot of folks who grew up with green screens and literal floppy disks love them. I don't always use a mechanical keyboard, but I've always owned one.

atrettel• 2 years ago

I agree that buckling springs are a bit of an acquired taste nowadays given how niche they are. I like them a lot, but I grew up typing on a Model M, so maybe I'm just acclimated to them.

Beyond nostalgia, I like buckling springs because they provide clear feedback about when a key actuates. Both the click and the "tactile bump" you feel occur when the key actuates. This is difficult to achieve and many keyboards (including those using Cherry switches) do not have this property.

nubinetwork• 2 years ago

I remember using these in the 90s and my hands would feel numb after an hour. No issues using modern keyboards, but the constant boing from typing is still firmly stuck in my head.

michaelcampbell2• 2 years ago

but I really don't understand some people's affinity toward buckling spring switches...
they're loud and odd feeling,

you answered your own question. One person's hatred is another's love.

tiltowait6• 2 years ago

I find MX-style switches (Cherry in particular, but not limited to them) to be very inconsistent. This is especially true of clicky switches like blues, but even linears can be all over the place. I think the most consistent switches I've found are Topre, Matias Tactile Click, and maybe beamspring (I say "maybe" because I've only used one such keyboard).

imaginarypedro2• 2 years ago

I had a classic 101-key Unicomp Model M that I purchased while they were apparently having quality problems due to worn out tooling. The keys felt different than my real Model Ms and the spacebar frequently stuck. They've since refurbished the tooling and I hear the quality is back to the high level you would expect.

For me though I just chose to retire the Unicomp and refurbish my real Model Ms. I bought three about 20 years ago from https://www.clickykeyboards.com/ and sent them back last year. They're as good as new and they feel so good to type on. Plus I don't have those damned extra keys the "New" Model M has.

geophile6• 2 years ago

Can confirm. I owned Unicomps before and after their retooling. The old ones developed problems quickly, and I've been on a new one since shortly after it was available, (three years?). Reliable, and as loud and clicky as it should be.

flir2• 2 years ago

I remember stacks of Model M's at radio rallies and other flea-market-type places. You couldn't give them away. If only I'd known...

intrasight3• 2 years ago

So true. Worth more than most old computers now.

amatecha2• 2 years ago

Yeah, I dumpster-dived a couple (original IBM Model M's), years ago, from the same PC shops that were throwing out working Pentium III / 4 systems. Totally great condition and still working problem-free today! I did have to purchase a couple keycaps on ebay as they were lost when thrown out into the dumpster (knocked off due to hitting other stuff), but really a minor issue!

bzzzt• 2 years ago

I paid about 1 euro for one at a computer fair over 20 years ago. It still works ;)

intrasight3• 2 years ago

Every couple of years, I try a new keyboard. But after a day or two I return to the Model M that I'm typing on now. I bought a few on ebay about 20 years ago - so I'm good until retirement.

al_borland• 2 years ago

How long ago were the issues? A co-worker of mine bought one many years ago (10-12 if I had to guess). It was pretty bad. He spent a bunch of time filing down all the bits of extra plastic from the manufacturing process. I had seen better finishing on keyboard costing a fraction of the price. Not that Unicomp has the highest prices in the market, far from it, but it’s not a $10 OEM board either.

I had wanted to buy one, but seeing his always made me think twice, so never did.

op00to3• 2 years ago

The unicomp Model M I got 15 years or so ago was an absolute dog that felt like a wish.com version of the venerable Model M. It had constant problems and I ended up releasing it into the general computer lab to be destroyed by postdocs.

imaginarypedro2• 2 years ago

I bought mine around 2017.

semolino• 2 years ago

I initially tried to go the classic route and get a refurbished Model M from the clicky keys guy. After having thismmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm happen at sporadic intervals with multiple boards (after paying to ship it back), I wrote it off and got a Unicomp New Model M. Been cruisin' and clackin' hard ever since.

slowmovintarget• 2 years ago

I have a 1983 IBM Model M... ...from my cold, dead hands (though I can't use it at the moment because it's too loud for my wife and kiddo).

23B1• 2 years ago

Not sure if this breaks HN's rules, but I'd love to hear anyones suggestions on favorite split keyboards. There's a lot of homebrew boards out there that're very small/light but I have sausage fingers and the demeanor of an orangutan.

https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Advantage360-Professional-Erg...

^closest I've found, but $$$

argiopetech• 2 years ago

I didn't know Kinesis had a split board. Thanks for the tip.

The ErgoDox/Moonlander are in that price range and are highly thought of.

gsamuelhays• 2 years ago

I supported the Keyboardio kickstarter and purchased two Model 01s which I liked very much. The problems I had with it were twofold: first - I use my pointer finger for the "c" key, which was very difficult and I had to switch to my middle finger. This adjustment was made with a little effort and eventually my brain was able to switch depending on which keyboard my hands were fit to - sort of like a dialect. The much larger problem was that _both_ the 'b' keys broke within the first couple of years. It did not quite fit the heirloom quality point for me and I didn't feel like taking it apart and figuring out what was going on.

Since then, I have switched to Mistel split keyboard which have the exact feel as any other qwerty keyboard and I haven't looked back (though I did rebind some of the keys, like the arrows for example, to match the vi movement keys).

I'm interested in keymouse (keymouse.com) but frankly don't feel like dropping a bunch of money on another experimental design. So I've got two Mistels for both my daily drivers and will likely continue with that brand as I've been very happy with the quality.

tiltowait6• 2 years ago

Was your Model 01 with the clicky switches or the quiet ones. I believe the clicky ones had some issues. Mine did; one of the switches just sends keypresses on repeat. I could fix it, but it's more work than I care to put in right now.

The Model 100 uses MX-style switches and has some small design improvements here and there. No complaints on my end, but I haven't put it through as much torture as my Model 01.

ETA: Which Mistel did you get? They look interesting.

lockyc• 2 years ago

ZSA Moonlander is awesome (https://www.zsa.io/moonlander). Their configuration tool is excellent, its a really easy keyboard to use and configure without making it a full time hobby.

thomastjeffery• 2 years ago

I really like my keyboard.io Model 01. The thumb (and palm) keys are excellent.

Beyond that, there is a market for prebuilt Dactyl and similar hand-made boards.

astrospective• 2 years ago

I’ve been using an Ergodox-EZ for 7 years, it’s been so good for my wrists.

misterbwong2• 2 years ago

I was doing quite a bit of shopping for a split ergo about a year ago.

My main contenders ended up being:

  - Glove80
  - Advantage360
  - ZSA Moonlander
  - ZSA Ergodox
  - Various alice layout KB's (not full split.  ex: Keychron K15)
  - Custom building some sort of sofle or dactyl - ZSA recently came out with the voyager which looks essentially like a wired 65% sofle.

In the end I went with the Glove80, which I _highly_ recommend. It's the most comfortable keyboard I've used, bar none. The biggest knock I have on the Glove80 is the fit/finish for its price-it doesn't feel like you'd imagine a $400 keyboard would. The unique design makes it worth it for me, though.

mech422• 2 years ago

I keep saying I should trying the Moonlander, but I never get around to it. The ErgoDox thumb clusters were too much of a stretch for my thumbs - I think the adjustable ones on the moonlander would help

Edit: A Dactyl with a trackball would be pretty sweet too. They seem to be getting a bit easier to buy now too.

dotancohen• 2 years ago

I've had over a dozen split or mechanical keyboards over the years. By far the most comfortable for everyday usage (software development) was the Matias Ergo Pro. The keys are outstanding. The layout is terrific. The keyboard is completely adjustable so the R in RSI is vastly reduced, I would move mine around constantly. But the quality is atrocious. After less than a year mine was repeating some keys and not registering others. The company rep told me this was normal but sent to me a replacement anyway - and that one had the same issues a year later.

That said, if money were no object I would just get a new one every year. That's how much I loved that keyboard while it was working.

jonhohle• 2 years ago

I like split ergonomic keyboard, and Alps switches, and prefer a Mac keyboard, if possible. Unfortunately, the Mattias Ergo Pro I’ve had since launch was not particularly reliable. Apple’s ergonomic keyboard has odd choices for function buttons and (a deal breaker for me) a terrible escape key.

I recently found a Gemini III P20028 which is nearly perfect except it is missing a “Command”/Windows key.

I also have an Apple Extended II which is my daily driver at a desk. And I have one of these Unicomp’s which I enjoy as well. I used to use IBM Model Ms, and like their switches almost as well as Alps.

For my own comfort, I’ve found switches to be more important than split. I’ve used Cherry and clones, and they really aren’t in the same league in terms of tactile response as Alps or buckling springs. It’s too bad they’ve become synonymous with “mechanical” keyboards.

I’ve liked the idea of many of the minimalist keyboards, but always want a full number row, dedicated Esc, brackets, Pipe, etc. I thought the Ergo Pro would be that, but when switches started double registering after only a few years, I grew cold to it. I have 30+ year old keyboards that are working great, anything modern and hundreds of dollars should do the same.

I’ve always wanted to try a Kinesis, but it would have to be so much better than what I have to justify double the price that I can’t really justify the price. After 20+ years of keyboarding nearly every day and finding boards that don’t give me pain, I have no reason to try at that price.

rssoconnor• 2 years ago

I ended up getting the ZSA Moonlander, which I'm quite happy with. I probably would have gotten the Advantage 360, but the measurements indicated it would be too tall to fit on my keyboard tray and still slide under my desk.

That said, I eventually ended up getting "The Platform" for tenting my Moonlander. And while the tenting is collapsible, The Platform lifts increases my keyboard height just enough that it now no longer slides under my desk with my keyboard tray.

But I prefer the tenting, so I just live with it. I just unplug my keyboard and set it aside when I need to close my keyboard tray.

I constructed myself a Miryoku inspired layout for my Moonlander. Though getting the timing right for using home-row mods is very tricky, and it is unclear to me if it is worthwhile or not.

SloopJon• 2 years ago

I haven't used that many different keyboards, but each one has kind of added a feature to my must-have list.

My first mechanical was a tenkeyless Max Keyboard Nighthawk. It sold me on the TKL size, and backlighting. It also has a USB hub, which is very convenient for mouse dongles and headsets.

For several years I used a Kinesis Advantage at work. I never loved it, but it sold me on having my preferred layout (Dvorak) in hardware, rather than configuring it in the O/S. I also liked having a backspace under my left thumb.

Not long after I got a Kinesis Gaming Freestyle Edge RGB at home. Even better than the Advantage, I could program an arbitrary layout (and lighting) in hardware. And because it's split, I can program the left spacebar for backspace.

When I got tired of the Advantage, I bought a System76 Launch, a compact TKL with a split spacebar. This sold me on hot-swap switches. I generally like light tactile switches like the Cherry MX Brown in the first three keyboards, but it's fun to put clickies on some of the keys, and very light linears on the pinkie modifiers.

I guess the point is that as your list of must-have features grows, the set of candidate keyboards shrinks. There aren't many programmable RGB keyboards with hot-swap switches, a split spacebar, and a USB hub. What are your must-haves?

__mharrison__2• 2 years ago

Using a Lily58 after almost 10 years of ErgoDox. Happy to answer any questions.

dinkleberg• 2 years ago

I'd highly recommend Kinesis advantage360. I previously tried a moonlander, but I wasn't a fan. The curve of the kinesis is perfect.

It has truly spoiled me and now typing on a regular keyboard is terrible. My only complaint is that they are so big and chunky that traveling with them isn't all that feasible. So I'm confined to the crappy laptop keyboard when on-the-go.

samatman3• 2 years ago

I didn't know Kinesis made an Ergodox layout, that's probably what I'll buy when my Ergodox EZ quits. Again. Which it will.

The first one died after 26 months. Sounds weirdly specific, why would I remember that? Two-year warranty. The owner of the company was shockingly rude to me, accused me of threatening to trash his reputation if he didn't give me free stuff. I had sent him some links to times I had praised and recommended his product (they're all on here, feel free to Algolia it if you're curious).

Well, Erez Zukerman, you deserve to have your reputation trashed. The product itself is decent. Unless it randomly dies on you right after the warranty expires, in which case, fuck you.

acjohnson55• 2 years ago

I used a Moonlander for a few years, and then I impulse-bought the Dygma Defy during its crowd funding campaign. I like the Defy slightly better but I definitely should not have bought a second several hundred dollar keyboard.

Just_Harry• 2 years ago

I've been using a Matias Ergo Pro Programmable for the past three-or-so years and it's been excellent; all the wrist pain I had been experiencing after typing ceased once I started using it, and that's held true since. The switches are tactile but quiet. The keycaps are well-sized with a pleasant texture. It's very weighty, and never moves. It has arrow-keys and Home/End/PgUp/PgDn. The cable that joins the two halves is just a standard 3.5mm TRRS audio cable. The USB cable is detachable. It does have a few flaws: the Escape key's awkwardly out-of-the-way, the same goes for the Delete key; the fabric used for the palm-rests is sort of difficult to clean; very rarely, a pressed key will get stuck and will repeat after it's been depressed.

I've also tried the Kinesis Freestyle 2... I'm much less of fond it, it might just be the worst keyboard I've used (especially relative to its price). Its switches are bad, even by the standards of membrane switches—to get keypresses to reliably register I have mash the keys so forcefully that it ends up being louder than the mechanical Ergo Pro. The keycaps are small, with a texture that's unpleasant to the touch. The cable that joins the two halves is proprietary, and the cable that comes out of the box is too short at 9", the 20" cable costs 20% of what the keyboard does and is still too short to fully utilise the split. The USB cable isn't detachable. Something about the way the right half is laid out makes it difficult to get your hand in position to use it. The Escape key's really out-of-the-way, as is the Fn key. Though, it does have a lot of macro keys.

tiltowait6• 2 years ago

Layout-wise, I haven't seen anyone beat the Keyboardio. The thumb cluster is perfect, and the palm keys are fantastic. The only thing it lacks is a sculpted key well like the Kineses/Maltron.

From looking at it, the Glove80 looks to be a near-perfect layout (good thumb cluster, sculpted well, but no palm key). The switches give me some pause, but I haven't ever tried them.

atan2• 2 years ago

I have a Unicomp New model M and I used for a long time. The only reason I am using something else is because it kept waking the baby up and apparently I should "get a less noisy keyboard like a normal person."

temp0826• 2 years ago

Fwiw, open office with short cubicle walls + standing desks that put your desk surface above the wall + mech keyboards was the bane of my existence. Appreciate having some awareness and compassion for those around you.

neilv• 2 years ago

That sounds almost designed to prevent work. :)

Initially, ~5 ft. cube walls were good enough when most of us had Sun Type 4 keyboards.

Then we got some IBM RS/6000 units, with clacky keyboards.

Your eyes go a little wide the first time, "Oooh... this is... loud... and nice..." as you start typing faster.

I think that type of keyboard was made for people who crave power, not for the nerves of anyone else in their office building floor.

(Never let the clacky PC keyboard people discover the Selectric II typewriter. Secretaries not only knew everything going on, and not only controlled access, but they also collectively tricked those outside their guild into never experiencing the exhilaration of Selectric II.)

Lammy3• 2 years ago

Your ire is better directed upward in the management chain at the people who chose your office layout and furniture. I'm not sorry for my mechanical keyboard lol

QuinnyPig• 2 years ago

These are the second loudest keyboards I've ever used. The first loudest plays a sound on every keypress (a loud typewriter keypress), with the sound instead changing to me yelling "DING!" whenever that key is <enter>. This is done in software, and I'm certain everyone who's ever had a hand in writing it regrets it.

montag• 2 years ago

I have a vague memory of setting up a Windows 3.11 machine at my dad's office to emit typewriter clacking from the PC speaker on keypress - and a separate carriage return ding for the enter key...I'm sure no one was annoyed!

nomel• 2 years ago

Not sure why you're being voted down. That's the reality of this keyboard [1]. It's the loudest keyboard I've ever used, besides a (hardware) typewriter. It's ludicrous loud, compared to something like a modern notebook keyboard. Just as I did when I had it, and others did to me, everyone else in the room will be driven crazy with the typing. This keyboard requires being alone in a room, with a door.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXJzmky2DaI

romwell• 2 years ago

Huh. Neat, I guess.

I was lucky enough to get an original IBM Model M keyboard from a friend when the lab he was at was clearing out their old equipment.

Plugged it in a few years back through a USB-to-PS/2 adapter when my basic Logitech keyboard crapped out for no reason.

Mapped CapsLock to the "Win" (Super) key, and...

...still using it, without feeling that anything's missing.

Some things have reached their peak form, I guess. A 3-speed city bicycle is one of them; IBM Model M keyboard is another. Glad there's a company out there making it.

lproven2• 2 years ago

Exactly so.

I remap CapsLock to Super, and still use Model Ms today, via generic cheapo PS/2-to-USB convertors. (Any convertor with an LED on it should work, or that has 2 inputs; that means it's an active device.)

I tried an original Unicomp and it wasn't the same. Not even close to as nice to use. I doubt the "new" one is fully up to spec either.

I have been typing on these things for about 35 years now, and no RSI so far. Perhaps because they give my hand and arm muscles and tendons a good workout every day...?

vunderba3• 2 years ago

As an aside and a huge lover of mechanical keyboards since the original IBM model M with the buckler springs, I picked up a Keychron Q5 Pro a few months ago and really like it.

https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q5-pro-qmk-via-wi...

It's pretty easy to replace the key caps and it has a very good tactile feel to it. It does weigh as much as a houseboat but that's fine as I prefer it to stay stationary.

One thing that makes their keyboards stand out over almost any other mechanicals is it has a means of quickly swapping between three different Bluetooth pairings, so I have it paired with three different computers.

Now if only I could find an equivalent mouse with a mechanical switch underneath it that let me swap between three different computers wirelessly via BT I would be set...

blairbeckwith• 2 years ago

I am not sure about the rest of their nice, but at least the Logitech MX Master 3 allows you to switch between 3 paired bluetooth devices via a button on the bottom.

geophile6• 2 years ago

It sounds pretty nice, but it's a non-starter for me. I am highly dependent on key bindings for the cluster of six keys: Ins/Del/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown. This cluster used to be pretty common but is increasingly rare. The Unicomp has it, the Keychron does not.

ywain• 2 years ago

The Q5 Pro is a 96% layout, but Keychron also has quite a few 100% layouts: https://www.keychron.com/collections/all-keyboards?sort_by=m...

kilolima2• 2 years ago

"Built with the Mac users’ experience in mind while still retaining compatibility for Windows devices..."

No thanks!

Aeolun• 2 years ago

What (I think) this means is that their keyboards have a switch that reverses the location of CMD and Ctrl.

vunderba3• 2 years ago

There's a physical switch on it that remaps the keyboard to support windows or Mac, and they also include extra key caps if you prefer the windows logo versus the command logo. One of the three computers that I swap out is a Windows machine, so this keyboard is perfectly capable with both OSs.

You can use the VIA software to physically remap even more keys and because they let you swap between windows and Mac those count as separate layouts and you can create completely different key bindings which is really handy.

Macha3• 2 years ago

This is just marketing guff. What it means is there's a toggle on the side between Mac and windows keycodes so you don't get command moving places when you use it with a Mac like a regular windows keyboard, and it ships with the Mac keycaps installed.

You can swap out the Mac keycaps for windows keycaps (at least when I got it all, the windows keycaps were all in the box) and flick the switch to the windows position and it's a standard PC keyboard.

Mine is actually my Mac keyboard (I've got a ducky shine connected for my personal Linux/Windows dual boot machine as it's easier than fiddling with a KVM or synergy), but I've got it configured as a windows keyboard as I've just been using windows keyboards with macs for like a decade now.

riddley• 2 years ago

Das Keyboard keeps me hooked with their on-board USB hub. I'd love to switch but it's just so damned handy. I don't know why more kb manufacturers don't do this.

rx_tx• 2 years ago

Logitech mice (like the MX3 master) have a profile toggle switch on the bottom that can swap between 3 different BT devices or their supplied dongles. Super fast and convenient.

vunderba3• 2 years ago

You know I completely avoided even looking into Logitech mice, because I assumed that they required the use of their logitech dongle. Thanks for the recommendation!

octobus2021• 2 years ago

I tried a Keychron and it doesn't work with my KVM, which uses ScrollLock for switching between computers, and it doesn't work very well with Linux...

So Das Keyboard it is!

adrianmonk• 2 years ago

As long as we're talking mechanical keyboards, do they all require maintenance just to keep working, or is the basic Cooler Master one I bought just a dud?

After only like 2 years, many of the keys stopped working reliably. They'd double type or fail to register. I looked into it, and this seems to be a common issue with many mechanical keyboards. I tried some of the recommended solutions (blow dust out, use contact cleaner), and it improved things, but it's still not quite right.

I do like the feel, but I don't like the maintenance or lack of longevity. I'd be willing to pay more for a mechanical keyboard that is darned near maintenance free, but I'm not sure whether such a thing actually exists.

roblh• 2 years ago

They shouldn’t need that kind of maintenance unless you’re using it in an unusually dirty or dusty environment, as far as I know. I have a coolermaster tenkeyless with mx blues that I got about 10 years ago as a main keyboard that has worked without issue.

bpye• 2 years ago

I've had a Cooler Master tenkeyless for nearly 10 years and I still use it. I have had to repair a couple solder joints over time however.

ahefner• 2 years ago

I think they're generally reliable. I have a pair of Filco keyboards, one five years old, the other ten, and I haven't had any trouble except I did have to open the older one up and clean it recently as a couple switches had gotten gunked up.

quercusa• 2 years ago

I dump the hair, crumbs and fingernail bits out of my Model M every couple of years - that's about it.

amatecha2• 2 years ago

They should require essentially zero maintenance except maybe cleaning out all the dust/lint/crumbs/etc. that fall in between the keys. The actual key switches should last like... 20 years or more. What switches in your Coolermaster? I have a Coolermaster Masterkeys Pro S (Cherry MX Brown switches) and have used it for like 7+ years with no problems, all keys 100%-responsive and no double-actuations that I've ever observed.

kettro• 2 years ago

I’ve had my New M for a couple years now, and it’s been great. No complaints. Unicomp has sorted out their QC issues, and it’s a solid board. I’d say that the lack of a removable cable is a bit of a bummer, but that’s a nit pick.

michaelcampbell2• 2 years ago

That's not, AFAIK, normal.

I have a variety of mechanicals and none of them are like that (mostly cherry switches, but a Unicomp spring type also), but that also means I swap through them with some regularity so no one of them gets 100% use.

Macha3• 2 years ago

I take the keycaps off once or twice a year so I can clean under/around them. I don't do any maintenance other than that, and I did the same with my pre-mechanical keyboards (it's actually much easier as the cherry keycaps are way more durable/easy for being removed and put back than e.g. butterfly mechanisms that a lot of membrane keyboards use)

geophile6• 2 years ago

Hey kids. Stop whining about Model M and Unicomp keyboards being loud.

You haven't typed on an IBM 029 card punch. That puts a Model M to shame.

You haven't typed on an original ASR 33 terminal. That puts an IBM 029 card punch to shame.

My hearing is shot. I'm not sure if it's the rock music or those old keyboards.

eichin• 2 years ago

The ASR-33 starts out loud when you're not even touching it :-)

Can't beat a linotype for surround, though. Clanks and thumps from all around you...

doublepg233• 2 years ago

Love the New Model M keyboard. I have one for my personal setup and one for my work setup. Recent batches also use Rpi Picos now which let you flash custom firmware. https://github.com/purdeaandrei/vial-qmk-overnumpad-and-aris...

In theory, they're probably "worse" than a brand new IBM made Model M was but I think people overestimate the feel of extant Model Ms that have been around for 30, 40 years now. I also found PS/2 -> USB adapters to be pretty flaky after a few years.

My comparison is a IBM made SSK and Lexmark made regular M.

breckenedge• 2 years ago

Thanks, I had no idea these were running a Pico, yay QMK

guenthert2• 2 years ago

The new "New" Model M Keyboard does afaik. My ten-key-less (space saver) (anno 2019 or so) has an older MCU which apparently doesn't get the USB protocol quite right. Every now and then (perhaps once a week) the keyboard isn't recognized at boot (currently Windows 10, but it's the same in Linux). I have it connected to a switchable USB hub, so that's not a big deal. More annoying is, that rarely (about once a month) the 'Q' key is dead (real fun when a password contains it). Most annoying is that the 'T' key tends to bounce (that developed only after two or three years of use, so probably not firmware related). Overall, I'm still satisfied, but can't wholeheartedly recommend it.

Unicomp offers (or offered?) to repair those older "New" Model M (replace the MCU), but I moved internationally meanwhile, so this probably not an option anymore. I wished, they would offer the MCU daughterboard separately, so that I could install it myself.

tamrix• 2 years ago

Used a unicomp Model M 8+ years ago. Spilled coffee on it and it was dead dead.

It's a very loud keyboard. You couldn't use one today if you had to type during a zoom or teams meeting.

JKCalhoun• 2 years ago

Oh thank God, no RGB LEDs.

MrBrobot• 2 years ago

I had one of these exact keyboards (at least the same keycap color scheme, etc). It was actually really pleasant to use, but it was far too large for my liking. I ended up going back to 60% boards with blue switches.

Koshkin• 2 years ago

Give me my L-shaped Enter key back please!

rvbissell• 2 years ago

Abomination. That's where \| should be.

op00to3• 2 years ago

I grew up a half mile away from a major IBM office. My friends and I would sneak through the woods and go dumpster diving. We would routinely get 3-4 new in box keyboards, plenty of floppies, even real fancy chairs!

mometsi• 2 years ago

This sounds like the setup to a Stephen King novel about malevolent office supplies.

phendrenad2• 2 years ago

They were thrown away for a reason...

op00to3• 2 years ago

More like a horror story for those poor security guard that wanted to watch tv instead of follow us around in their cars!

neom2• 2 years ago

There is also a mac version: https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Prod...

Diti• 2 years ago

Sigh. Yet another keyboard with the legacy AZERTY French layout and no option for the standardized (AFNOR AZERTY+) layout.

TMWNN• 2 years ago

Does that show that the uptake for AZERTY+ has been below expectations so far?

Relevant context for others:

TIL that "it is practically impossible to write French correctly using a keyboard that has been bought in France", says the country's government. Because the AZERTY layout makes typing certain accented letters difficult (especially capitals), many don't use them, changing the language

<https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5pwmqu/til_th...>

prmoustache• 2 years ago

I think that is not the problem of a physical keyboard but about Microsoft Windows still not being ready for the desktop after so many decades.

I've been able easily to write accented letters on linux since forever it seems.

yukkuri• 2 years ago

My Unicomp model M is good and I appreciate it daily. Fit and finish are just a little cheaper than an original 1980s IBM (which I also had but it finally died) but it's USB and feels good to type on. I actually use the OS key so having that is a plus for me

paulmd2• 2 years ago

have they solved the power-on draw problems?

that was the thing that finally soured me on them... my dell optiplex at work couldn't reliably handle the power surge especially during soft reboots and had a tendency to hang the whole system. worked fine when I was mostly in the office (and when I had coworkers who could reboot it for me if needed) but once we went WFH I had to have them unplug it until I eventually got my stuff...

guenthert2• 2 years ago

Never noticed a power-draw problem. Given that even old USB is mandated to supply at least 500mA and that there's little more than a MCU inside the keyboard, I find it hard to believe that power (or even just in-rush current) could be the problem.

bombcar• 2 years ago

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/ has some similar things.

The Model F 122 puts the Model M out to pasture.

grugagag• 2 years ago

That vertical bar Newsletter / Project Updates that wouldn’t go away, I just had to close the tab…

Lammy3• 2 years ago

uBlock to the rescue:

  www.modelfkeyboards.com###omnisend-dynamic-container
  www.modelfkeyboards.com##.userway_buttons_wrapper
  www.modelfkeyboards.com##.scroll-top-right

(Floating vertical bar, floating accessibility button, and floating "jump to top" button, respectively)

tiltowait6• 2 years ago

If you can get one in a reasonable amount of time. It took about 1.5 years to get my F62, and a year to get my split Model F. They're definitely nice keyboards, though IMO the "F" switch is a bit overrated. The main advantage for me is the ability to have a 60% keyboard.

Bayaz• 2 years ago

They should try to cash in on the lucrative custom keycap market. When my last Unicomp model died years ago, I replaced it with a modular board and Box Navy switches to simulate the buckling spring feel. It’s close, but not exactly the same. I’d switch back to a Model M if there were custom keycaps.

Lammy3• 2 years ago

If you go old enough the actual IBM-made keyboards do have swappable keycaps separate from the key stems.

jwells89• 2 years ago

Yeah, the custom keycap scene is dominated by Cherry MX-compatible sets. There’s a handful of custom caps for Kailh Choc low profile switches and even smaller handful for Topre, but if you’re a fan of Alps or especially buckling springs there’s basically nothing.

This is a big reason why most of my boards are MX-type.

dartharva• 2 years ago

I will once again ask you guys to check out TVS Gold keyboards, they are a functional successor to the Model M and ubiquitous in India. Did I mention they are also really cheap?

https://www.tvs-e.in/keyboards-and-mice/gold-pro/

Nursie2• 2 years ago

It's a nice looking keyboard, but it lacks the thing that makes the Model M really special - buckling springs.

flir2• 2 years ago

Switches, right?

jupp0r2• 2 years ago

Love mine. Make sure you have fellow appreciative keyboard nerds around you in the office, muggles will definitely complain.

0ckpuppet• 2 years ago

smarter people did harder work in rooms full of loud loud keyboards.

jupp0r2• 2 years ago

They probably had their own offices or at least cubicles.

Nursie2• 2 years ago

Was just thinking how much I miss my old model M. I got a stack of them from an old girlfriend when (and this is back in maybe 1999) a place she was working at was getting rid of a whole load of old IBM PCs. They were 486s in the age of the Pentium 2/3, so basically useless, but each one came with a PS2 model M.

I used that keyboard for about 10 years, then gave it to a friend when I was moving country. I moved back, and they gave it back. I used it for another few years, though a little less as it is so loud. Then I moved country again and gave it to a workmate who is a real keyboard enthusiast kind of guy, and I understand it's now back in daily use.

It's bigger than I want these days - I'm a fan of the TKL keyboard now. But I see they do a Mini!

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M

Hmmm....

CommieBobDole• 2 years ago

I tried one of the new Unicomps at work and it was fine, but it has a different (and in my opinion, lesser) feel and sound than the real Model M. I'm not sure what sort of plastic the Unicomp uses for the case, but it's thin and hard and resonant. The real model M uses a thick ABS case that dampens vibrations and the resulting noise/harsh feel.

I have continued using my old (June 2, 1987) Model M at home, and now that I don't work at the office anymore, it's the only keyboard I use. I keep the Unicomp on hand in case of emergencies, but it mostly just gathers dust.

cduzz3• 2 years ago

I've got a couple M keyboards floating around. I grew up using an IBM PC with the F keyboard; when I got my first computer I got a "focus 2002" keyboard that also had the mechanical (but not BS) keys.

Worked a university and availed myself of their "surplus junk" sales every 2nd tuesday of the month and adopted many a weird piece of hardware, and eventually had a stack of 3 decent M keyboards that I'd rotate through on my various systems.

Decades later, I got tired of the junky dell USB keyboards and tried one out in the WFH days and discovered ... too loud, too big, kinda too annoying.

I did, however, come upon a lexmark M4-1 keyboard, which has been an absolute delight. Good typing feel, has the trackpoint thing in the middle, not too big. Really quite wonderful. I don't even really notice the lack of all the fancy new keys -- I remap the capslock to whatever and it's almost like I'm back on my model f (or old "unix" keyboards of the 90s) with the control key next to the A. It's not the control key -- my muscle memory has firmly moved it to the bottom left / right, but the OS "meta" key kinda serves the same role.

I even got one of the model Ms with the trackpoint in the middle (no, not a black one) -- and I just don't like the feel as much as the m4-1, which the internet says is based on early IBM laptop keyboards.

Too bad the USB/PS2 dongle sometimes drops out and the keyboard reboots and flashes the 3 leds, which is somewhat annoying.

sleepybrett5• 2 years ago

I still prefer the F to the M.. however I can't really type of qwerty boards anymore for any length of time without risking RSI. Kinesis Advantage for me for the rest of my life.

muro2• 2 years ago

+1 to Kinesis Advantage. I prefer the "original" / non-360 for its advantage (sorry) of just working as soon as it's connected to a computer. The 360 needs to pair it's halves that results in a disconnect/reconnect dance which annoys me a lot. I assume it's only due to my setup, where I have two laptops connected by a USB-C to a monitor, all accessories are in turn connected to the monitor.

bosch_mind• 2 years ago

I ordered one of these and returned it instantly. Very cheap and weird compared to nice and modern mechanical keyboards you get today. I really wanted an original model M but didn’t want to deal with weird ps2 conversion stuff.

beloch• 2 years ago

There are still a surprising number of motherboards being made with a PS/2 port.

I suspect some motherboard companies have people who still cherish their Model-M's, because support for them seems to be flawless. How many other completely unmodified thirty-plus year-old peripherals can you plug into a brand new computer and expect to just work?

Symbiote2• 2 years ago

A very few businesses with tight security requirements will allow PS/2 keyboards but not USB, for security.

toast0• 2 years ago

Why would you buy a motherboard without a ps/2 port? They're handy, and there's enough boards with them that it doesn't cost extra.

I think modern cpus include the ps/2 handling in their legacy cruft section, so it's just a bit of signal routing and a connector.

snvzz• 2 years ago

Moved on to Topre switches.

I don't miss model M; pre-topre mechanical is just obsolete technology now.

MengerSponge2• 2 years ago

I wrote my dissertation on a HHKB2, and I use a realforce in my office now. It doesn't look "weird" but it's an absolute delight to type on.

dcchambers2• 2 years ago

Would love to take a look at that paper if you're willing to share :)

projektfu• 2 years ago

I bought one of their keyboards back maybe 6 years ago and it simply died one day after warranty but not long onto its life. I would consider trying again but the price is just too high to risk it.

cmrdporcupine• 2 years ago

Man I love those switches, and had a Model M for years... but I hate the layout and am not a huge fan of the keycaps. Useless CapsLocks where control should be is one of the worst legacies of the IBM PC, along with the x86 instruction set.

I would love to see the buckling spring keyswitches paired with some doubleshot SA profile keycaps.

jachee2• 2 years ago

I daily drive one of these. There’s nothing quite like the crunch of an actual buckling spring.

I wish there were a bit more of a customization market, but I’m pretty happy with mine, despite it being beige on beige.

diffeomorphism• 2 years ago

Somewhat relevant, you can get the sound (but not feel) of this keyboard as software:

https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring

Might even be in the repos depending on your linux distro, e.g apt install bucklespring

hlandau• 2 years ago

Case is only available in black?

Wish they wouldn't put that hideous logo on it.

I've heard claims that the keycap shapes have decayed as the original injection moulding moulds have worn. But judging by comments above it sounds like they have resolved that.

Audio keys feel like a necessity for me nowadays. The Ducky one3 I use puts them where the LEDs usually go and I feel that works really well. There's also existing Model Ms but lack of Super keys is a total dealbreaker for me.

_giorgio_• 2 years ago

Keys are too heavy. Model F springs are way better.

markdoubleyou• 2 years ago

This was my first mechanical keyboard, and I had the same reaction. My fingers would feel fatigued after an hour of heavy use.

orthoxerox• 2 years ago

I bought a couple Unicomp keyboards in late 2011, I don't even remember the model name, something like SpaceSaver. I'm currently typing this comment on one of them and the other one is in another home.

I love the clickiness, the heft, the fact that it's built like a tank. I am not a big fan of the PS/2 (2011 me worried about USB rollover and didn't expect PS/2 to die out) and my coworkers weren't big fans of the clickiness at all, but it's one of my favorite possessions.

alextingle• 2 years ago

Unicomp's customer service was absolutely terrible when I bought from them. I ordered a black keyboard. They spent ages doing nothing. When I complained, they finally shipped me... a beige keyboard.

When I notified them, the rep said (and I quote), "I don't really see the problem... can't you use it as is?"

He refused to replace it, and reluctantly refunded me the purchase price (but not the extremely expensive postage). So if I wanted to get what I actually ordered, I'd have had to start the whole tortuous process from scratch, and still be out of pocket.

The whole experience was ridiculous.

cheshireoctopus• 2 years ago

Hate to say it as I like Unicomp as a concept, but had a related experience.

Purchased a keyboard from them back in 2015/2016 and really enjoyed the few months that it worked. There is something about those springs... When it stopped functioning a short while later I contacted Unicomp asking how I could fix and/or replace it and was told I'd have to buy a new one.

Probably meant to be as I developed the need for an ergonomic keyboard. Purchased a Kinesis Freestyle2 and it's worked without issue.

intrasight3• 2 years ago

I just notice today when I looked at their web site again that they also have a Mini M

digitalsushi• 2 years ago

I recommend owners purchase an automotive pick set. It's given me hundreds of idle-plaything hours stuck on zoom calls, picking dog hairs out from between the keys like a neurosurgeon.

Macha3• 2 years ago

I use the key puller that came in the box with one of my keyboards for that.

It's led to some awkward moments in calls as the gap in the handle is just big enough to get my finger in easy and make it hard to take out.

deeesstoronto• 2 years ago

I really enjoy typing on the unicomp buckling spring keyboard; I've had an older model for a long time.

It seemed very well built on the outside, however eventually a number of keys stopped functioning. Taking it apart, I found that the plastic rivets holding the assembly together failed.

It was repairable by drilling and replacing the rivets with machine screws. Although original model M's were built in the same way, the design or manufacture of these rivets on my unit is completely insufficient. I'd expect better for a keyboard in this price range. This also seems to be a common problem based on scouring the forums. I'd hope this would be re-designed in newer models, however also don't hold out much hope.

tiltowait6• 2 years ago

I wonder if the "New" Model M has the same problem, or if they've finally updated/replaced their tooling. AFAIK they were/are still using the old machines from the 80s and 90s.

Unicomp's "New" Model M Keyboard

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