Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2023/08/25/announcing-windows-11-insider-preview-build-23531-dev-channel/

by pjerem • 3 years ago

427 347 3 years ago

blogs.windows.com

pjerem3• 3 years ago

Technically it's in the European Economic Area (EEA) but the title was too long.

capableweb4• 3 years ago

That's strange, I wonder why not EU but rather EEA. Probably the smallest target amount compared to EU and aimed at resolving some conflict with a regulation that only affects EEA rather than EU?

martinald• 3 years ago

The EEA contains EU countries plus Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway.

theonlybutlet• 3 years ago

EEA is larger than the EU. The EEA concerns the single market, the reason Microsoft is doing this (to avoid breaching antitrust/competition law).

ritzaco• 3 years ago

Countries in the EEA but not EU (e.g. Switzerland) tend to have bilateral agreements with the EU which cover most EU laws, so I think legally it's often easier to group EEA together

E.g. EU enforces free data roaming for cellphone providers, but many providers allow free roaming to Switzerland and the Nordic countries too - not sure if it's just practically easier than trying to geofence those areas into a different tariff or if it's legally too complicated, but I'm fairly certain they don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

matips• 3 years ago

EEA is UE + few other countries.

coldtea• 3 years ago

I wonder why not EU but rather EEA

No big mystery: because EEA countries agreed to the ruling to make that a requirement and not just EU countries?

There is tons of stuff applicable at the EEA level, it's quite common. After all the purpose of EEA is to have common regulatory framework.

layer84• 3 years ago

EEA = EU + EFTA. The EEA forms the “European single market”. The EFTA states adopt most of the relevant legislation from the EU. So it’s normal that product policies apply to the whole of the EEA instead of just to the EU.

eimrine• 3 years ago

Default browser has to be something as lite as possible, probably Pale Moon. Because random apps use to call the browser any time they want and if the default browser is browser I use, it eats a lot of time and laptop battery trying to start my hundreds-tab monster.

mrweasel• 3 years ago

That makes me wonder: What are the rules for something to be considered a browser? Does it need to provide certain functionality, or can I register anything as a browser and just have links open in an editor?

Traubenfuchs4• 3 years ago

Afaik to make a program selectable as default browser, one needs to register it as a protocol handler for http and https urls in the registry.

https://stackoverflow.com/a/38205984/2306536

kroltan• 3 years ago

In Windows, default applications are registered either by URL scheme (so ftp, http, https, gopher...) or file extension (.txt, .html, .pdf, .mp4...). As far as I know there is no special registration for "browsers" specifically, you just register your application as a handler for whatever protocols and file formats you want.

So if you want to make your random executable be "a browser", my guess is you should register it as a handler for http, https, and .html, at least.

Dwedit• 3 years ago

If it's Chromium, it's a web browser. Steam? Web browser. Literally any Electron app? Web browser.

vuavu• 3 years ago

I don't think people would've complained so much about Edge if it wasn't the monster full of adware that it is today.

I used Edge for a few years when it came out and it was good, but each version they shoved something new in your face and I had to go back to Chrome.

eur0pa2• 3 years ago

Edge used to be a legitimately valid choice

_cenw3• 3 years ago

Edge was great just after they switched to Chromium and lead the way on battery optimizations. And then every team started an everlasting "who can exhaust the patience of their users the fastest and get them to either give in to microsoft-everything or switch away from edge" contest.

djbusby• 3 years ago

Neat! But why not respect the users choice everywhere on earth?

aqme282• 3 years ago

Regulations that were passed in the EU but not e.g. the US.

capableweb4• 3 years ago

The announcement is talking about EEA rather than EU though, which smells a bit weird. I'm not sure what regulation they're trying to resolve the conflict with that is not EU wide but rather EEA and targets the usage of default browsers.

Mistletoe• 3 years ago

We don’t police tech monopolies in the USA, they are actually in charge because all of Congress owns the SP500, which is dominated by tech. We have to find a way out of this dystopia spiral.

Broken_Hippo2• 3 years ago

That's not quite it.

The US doesn't, in general, give any extra rights or protections to its people without a bit of force, and then one is lucky.

Hence, no real consumer protection (which would include this). No signing of a thing giving rights for children, and so on. The rights folks legally have were grand enough 200 years ago, but have become substandard over time with little upgrading.

passwordoops• 3 years ago

In case you're getting downvoted:

https://unusualwhales.com/politics/article/congress-trading-...

https://campaignlegal.org/update/stock-act-failed-effort-sto...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/13/us/politics/c...

lnxg33k13• 3 years ago

Because other places have thriving tech industry which can’t waste time checking what browser to run

hardware2win2• 3 years ago

Not supporting major browsers doesnt feel like "thriving tech industry"

Sounds like cheap ass startups or poorly executing corpos

cwales952• 3 years ago

Your argument doesn’t hold at all. The functionality is already there, so ask yourself, why are they depriving people outside of the EU this functionality when it’s already there?

AraceliHarker• 3 years ago

Microsoft is determined to make users use Edge + Bing.

baz006• 3 years ago

For lack of a better response, as a customer I'd like to tell them to fuck off because both are terrible user experiences. It's like wading through trash.

zb3• 3 years ago

This is a very good thing for Linux on desktop. I wish MS was way more aggressive here, hopefully it's just the begining.

Barrin922• 3 years ago

Because companies only ever respect user choice for two reasons. 1. it coincidentally makes them money, 2. they're forced to by government. In the US it's interesting to see that state governments are increasingly pushing on several issues (albeit sometimes for dubious reasons), but the federal government is somehow chronically AFK.

baz006• 3 years ago

Because they do not respect you as a user anywhere out of choice.

justapassenger• 3 years ago

giancarlostoro3• 3 years ago

I love Microsoft, but I hate whoever is controlling all these awful choices for their OS. Lets be real its probably a marketing team trying to sell office and whatever else. I just want a version of Windows for actual professionals with no nonsense on it. Slim it down, make it feel like I'm on a 2023 machine with the minimalism of like idk Windows XP or Windows 7. No nonsense.

tmpX7dMeXU2• 3 years ago

You can’t “love Microsoft” as if it is a homogeneous entity whilst carving out sections of it for the purpose of attributing everything you’re against. Not only is this simply a sign that Microsoft is a bloated old tech company like a bunch of others, looking to make more money, but it is also consistent with a pattern of Microsoft’s behaviour over the last few decades.

toxik2• 3 years ago

I hate whoever is controlling all these awful choices for their OS.

That’s Microsoft. They control their own software.

baz006• 3 years ago

Remember back when Nadella took over Microsoft. HN was all over it like the second coming of Jesus. I complained that it doesn't change the organisation and this is just marketing. I was completely right. I remember being downvoted over and over again suggesting this is the end game of the takeover and the push that was promoted.

Microsoft wants to be a subscription company and will try and funnel you down any route to keep that revenue. Shareholders and management are driving this because the platform was the product and the product is worth absolutely fuck all at the end of the day. Ergo now it's a subscription delivery mechanism for Office, OneDrive and Edge etc which are all data gathering mechanisms themselves.

teddyh3• 3 years ago

I love Microsoft, but I hate whoever is controlling all these awful choices for their OS.

“If only the tsar knew!”

coffeeling8• 3 years ago

Not a marketing team trying to sell Office. They're trying to grow in the advertising sector, which means funneling people into Bing, since search ads are really profitable.

crest• 3 years ago

Microsoft decided they would rather to extract more value from their captive users than the users are will to hand over if the law doesn't make it too expensive.

Karellen• 3 years ago

Because fuck you, that's why

Lalabadie• 3 years ago

Yes, that changelog entry is basically "We will do the decent thing only when forced to."

PartiallyTyped• 3 years ago

I can tell you that it's because in the US, some people have vested interest in a dysfunctional government.

bux93• 3 years ago

To be fair, they also don't respect your choice in the EU, it's just that they can't legally act on their disrespect in this particular way.

LegitShady• 3 years ago

the goal isn't respect, the goal is to leverage their position to try to trick you into something against your interest but in theirs.

candiddevmike2• 3 years ago

How do I make Windows 11 think I'm in the EU?

layer84• 3 years ago

Region settings, possibly: https://www.groovypost.com/howto/adjust-region-settings-on-w...

capableweb4• 3 years ago

Probably a combination of different inputs, like timezone, regional, GPS (if computer supports that) and figuring out public IP. Knowing Microsoft, they'll try their hardest to avoid flagging a computer as within EEA if they possibly could.

zecg• 3 years ago

I can recommend https://github.com/rcmaehl/MSEdgeRedirect

Liquix• 3 years ago

When you're at the point of tricking your operating system into thinking you're in a different country in order to make it function properly, it may be time to try a new OS. GNU/Linux has excellent compatibility with 95% of windows software through wine

candiddevmike2• 3 years ago

I used to run Debian, but gaming was always worse than Windows for me (new AMD graphics card, yes photon is great but it's not a replacement for me). My end users are all on Windows too, and I could never properly emulate their experience on Debian (short of _emulating_ Windows).

WSL2 works really well for my needs. I get the best of both worlds. I also hate all of the data collection and dark patterns.

jwells893• 3 years ago

That last 5% is killer, because it’s just enough to make rebooting into Windows a pain in the rear, and much of it is the type of software that refuses to run in VMs due to things like anticheat.

janandonly4• 3 years ago

When you're at the point of tricking your operating system into thinking you're in a different country to make it function properly, it may be time to try a new OS.

macOS has excellent compatibility with 95% of windows software through Parallels, and also respects your choice of browser.

I have Firefox, Chrome, Tor Browser and Brave running next to my current browser of preference, Safari. But switching back and forth is easy, and macOS respects my choice when I change the settings.

hellcow• 3 years ago

MacOS, run by Apple, the same company that mandates the Safari engine on iOS? The same company that fights tooth and nail against allowing non-“approved” apps to run on their devices?

Let’s not delude ourselves to thinking that two of the richest tech companies in the world are all that different. Both are working against your interests to monopolize their turf.

The group that truly puts users first is FOSS: Linux and BSD.

vultour• 3 years ago

Except you can't just try the new OS, you also have to spend thousands of dollars on "compatible" hardware.

layer84• 3 years ago

Many people still prefer the Windows UX over the macOS UX (and vice versa, of course). Which of the two is the lesser evil overall remains subjective.

runjake• 3 years ago

You bypass a lot of Microsoft anti-user crap by setting your Windows during install to en-gb and then set your OS language to “English Worldwide” so presumably you could install Windows 11, set region to “English $SomeCountryStillInEU” and set your language to “English Worldwide”.

FredPret• 3 years ago

My decision to move to Mac when the M1 came out is starting to pay more and more dividends!

cgeier• 3 years ago

What does using a Mac have to do with the article?

baz006• 3 years ago

Well avoiding the problem to start with is a perfectly good solution.

yomlica82• 3 years ago

What I've learned about tech tribalism arguments is that for some reason some one else doing something first means you can't be mad about it when it happens again.

Its like if you cheated on your wife and told her she can't get mad because your neighbor cheated on his wife first. Somehow that is a rebuttal even though she was never married to the neighbor and may have even started dating you in the first place because you didn't cheat.

horsawlarway3• 3 years ago

I mean... this is a hugely ironic comment given the topic is discussing respect for the user's desired browser.

Something Apple does considerably worse than Microsoft, intentionally and purposefully - entirely for control and profit, mostly to maintain their app store taxes.

lloeki2• 3 years ago

Is there a place I missed where macOS does not respect the user's default browser setting? (I'm using work-mandated Chrome as default on work laptop, never had an instance of Safari opening)

(can't comment on iOS since I use Safari there, but then TFA is about Windows 11 i.e desktop-side)

janandonly4• 3 years ago

I agree. I have Firefox, Chrome, Tor Browser and Brave running next to my current browser of preference, Safari. But switching back and forth is easy, and macOS respects my choice when I change the settings.

Traubenfuchs4• 3 years ago

I wonder how much money Microsoft is making by not respecting user choices in non European countries.

I also wonder how much money they invested in the legal handlings of this topic and how many developer/sales hours are and were wasted to make this "split" possible.

formerly_proven2• 3 years ago

Microsoft is clearly playing on Ultra Violence level here in an attempt to force as much Edge market share as technically possible. I guess someone pretty high up has their bonuses tied to those numbers.

Traubenfuchs4• 3 years ago

It's on the same embarrassing level as putting candy crush in the start menu.

londons_explore• 3 years ago

If the browser market share figures between EU and non-EU now start to diverge, it would really strengthen the case to sue microsoft in the USA...

eactlyhtj324• 3 years ago

These companies are all about efficiencies and supporting a single setting globally is more efficient than having per country settings.

They also like to take choice away from power users with the same excuse.

But regarding browser choice, they are happy to support different behaviors depending on geographic location... which already tells me that current Microsoft's practice of forcing Edge onto users does actually make a difference.

The marketshare figures will just be the cherry on top.

Phileosopher• 3 years ago

You'd think, but GDPR has done little to nothing to advance a privacy-focused constitutional amendment.

The USA's legal system is, plainly, only driven by the interests of the groups willing to pay the insanely high legal fees to do anything about it.

Over here, privacy is an afterthought, and I sincerely doubt anyone will discuss it this election: nobody profits financially from it.

user3939382• 3 years ago

I'm loving M$ having to admit they're intentionally abusing their users by disrespecting their preferences even when it would cost them nothing to do so.

omeid2• 3 years ago

On the windows front, it actually costs them more to make the feature geographic dependent. But on the browser dominance, the choice would actually cost M$.

desi_ninja• 3 years ago

When will Apple admit?

tmpX7dMeXU2• 3 years ago

Apple doesn’t disrespect set user preferences in the same way that Microsoft does. This sort of oversimplified drive-by whataboutism isn’t great for conversation.

zuhsetaqi2• 3 years ago

Where is Apple 'intentionally abusing their users by disrespecting their preferences'?

p0w3n3d• 3 years ago

apple have different approach: just refuses to work (interoperability) with others, that's it. Protocol unimplemented ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

pjmlp• 3 years ago

When their market size across EU is big enough for it to be relevant.

jrootabega2• 3 years ago

If respecting user preferences reduced Edge/MS ecosystem adoption, then that's a cost.

tremon2• 3 years ago

Not respecting user preferences also has a cost. It's just one that's harder to measure.

beembeem2• 3 years ago

It would actually cost them a significant amount in lost revenue. It's not merely disrespect of users, its money vs user goodwill.

HeckFeck• 3 years ago

The worst part is they have the resources to make a browser that people want, without having to shove it upon everyone. If they did the following in some alt timeline, I'd be a happy Edge user:

- Stuck to EdgeHTML and Chakra for a better diversity of web technologies

- No bloat, tracking, data siphoning, sign in pressure, sketchy financial services, bing integration shitware

- Cross platform (Win/OSX/Lx at least)

- Open source so we know there's no funny business

That would be a genuinely interesting browser that would have a chance of selling itself.

Instead we get a poor Chrome reskin that offers minimal incentive to use it.

kramerger• 3 years ago

"Respect" but will nag you and refuse to open certain files due to "security"

Source: currently on win10 enterprise and it refuse to open certain PDF files outside Edge, because "security"

Clamchop• 3 years ago

If it still works like it did for Internet Explorer, then interestingly, these files are tagged by using an auxiliary data fork in NTFS.

baz006• 3 years ago

They should have never done this in the first place and it was 100% intentional to try and trick you into using Edge. Secondly it is morally objectionable to just turn this off in the EEA. Thirdly, they still try and force Edge down your throat all the time.

That shows that the user is only being respected when pressured by legislation, not because you're the customer.

Microsoft does not respect its customers and does not deserve our business.

kevincox• 3 years ago

A huge admission of not respecting the user. If they didn't support this anywhere they could claim that it was because they can't test and support every browser. But if they can support other browsers in the EEA then they have no legs to stand on for why they disable it elsewhere. It is now clearly that they care about their preferences more than respecting the user's preferences.

flipbrad• 3 years ago

I'm not sure it's down to the new EU Digital Services Act (which is more focused on "online" behaviour, rather than client-side), but nb Art. 25(1) of the DSA:

"1. Providers of online platforms shall not design, organise or operate their online interfaces in a way that deceives or manipulates the recipients of their service or in a way that otherwise materially distorts or impairs the ability of the recipients of their service to make free and informed decisions."

Or there might be an argument that downloading instructions to a user's device, causing it to do something they didn't want, is a breach of the EU's anti-malware rule (AKA the much-despised "cookie law", even though that name downplays its significance)

kypro6• 3 years ago

Wonder how much this regulation cost to draft, pass, and implement? Several million dollars? Any EU tax payers care to justify this insanity?

I mean does any normal person even care about this? Eg, not people on HN with Macbook Pros – your average Windows user.

At the end of the day Windows does loads of stuff I don't like. That's why I don't use Windows anymore. Like with most things the EU regulates this just isn't an issue. Windows using a different browser for system apps is so far down on the list of things I don't like about Windows that even if you asked me to write a 100 point list of things I don't like about Windows I'm not sure this would make the list. Guess we need some more regulation.

Edit: Please don't downvote simply because you disagree with me. It's better to have a discussion. Different perspectives are good.

eur0pa2• 3 years ago

I agree these grapes look very sour

iSnow3• 3 years ago

Several million dollars? Any EU tax payers care to justify this insanity?

Probably several millions, yes. Considering the EU has 450 inhabitants, that*s increasing my tax bill by cents. Well worth the money to me. Probably, MS will try to backtrack and violate regulations at some point so it will pay for itself too.

I'll never get the US masochism where interference by regulators to defend the end-user is somehow seen as odious.

kypro6• 3 years ago

Probably several millions, yes. Considering the EU has 450 inhabitants, that*s increasing my tax bill by cents. Well worth the money to me.

But this never ends. Every week there's a new article here about how the EU is forcing electronics makers implement their preferred charger ports, or displaying cookie notices to EU visitors, or making phone batteries replaceable. It's endless crap that adds drag to businesses trying to operate in EU, costs tax payers hundreds of millions and has almost no significance to the average person's life.

I'm not anti-regulation at all. I just think it needs to be limited to places where there's a clear need to regulate. Honestly sometimes it seems like the EU is just looking for the next pointless thing to regulate so they can continue to justify their jobs.

Please take this as a separate point on taxation more generally, but I tend to find the most pro-tax people I know are those with the highest incomes. Those in favour of people's income being redistributed to regulators in this way I find are often the same people who argue in favour of spending "a little more" for free ranged eggs, and organic fruits, etc. I'm not suggesting you don't do this already, but we should consider if those pennies would be better in the pockets of workers rather than taken by government regulators so you don't have the displeasure of using Edge when you occasionally need to use Windows instead of your Mac.

krzyk• 3 years ago

Why having a choice is something bad?

kypro6• 3 years ago

It's not. Obviously.

You're either misunderstanding or purposefully misrepresenting my point. Happy to clarify my position if it's a misunderstanding.

martin_a2• 3 years ago

Any EU tax payers care to justify this insanity?

EU tax payer here. I was asked by the EU if they could use my tax money for this and I was fine with that. I think my neighbour was also asked and he was cool with that, too, so the EU went this way.

Don't worry, it wasn't your money that was spent here...

Barrin922• 3 years ago

Any EU tax payers care to justify this insanity?

Yes. The EU has an annual economic output of about 17.4 trillion Euros. A few million dollars in taxes is probably like what, 0.0001% of the zones tax burden, a fraction of a cent of my taxes?

I'll do you one better, if I could kill one of big techs user hostile features with a regulation I will chime in 50 bucks per bill. Windows probably runs on 90%+ of people's home and work devices, no regular user is just switching off Windows, you're not the norm.

walthamstow• 3 years ago

You use a word like 'insanity' then plead with people for sensible debate.

If you think different perspectives are so good, why do you immediately call the opposing view insane?

cowl2• 3 years ago

what kind of question is that? what user does not care that the OS is not respecting his choice of Browser? It greatly impacts the daily work. You are logged in into services in your browser of choice, you have autofills in your default browser, you have your preferences (language, cookie settings etc) set in your default browser and just because a link is opened from somewhere inside windows you find yourself in another browser where you are not logged in in your services, you don't have saved passwords, you don't have bookmarks or the extensions you use etc, so you have to copy the URL and paste into your browser.

Are you telling me you really don't care about this disruption that happens tens of times per day or just that you are not impacted and so noone else should care?

Aachen• 3 years ago

I would also urge people to wonder: why do they care so much?

I don't have the answer. Especially in the past, it seemed like a cost factor to keep up a modern browser (just ask Mozilla) if people might as well install anything else and still buy your OS and use your services. That may have just been going with the flow, not wanting to miss the boat.

My best guess for nowadays is the same as why Google hijacked a login to any google service (from gmail to youtube) as a log in to the Chrome browser, after which all the data on any website is up for grabs and they can facilitate privacy extensions all they want without compromising their own market position. Does Microsoft (plan to) run an ad business? Is it built-in Cortana integration which can answer with ads included or ranking own services higher? Is it just to be able to shove any new future service into more people's faces? To steer web standards, like if you have >70% market share on Windows desktops can you just build in a new ActiveX for WebOffice (as an example) and you'd force others to follow?

Or maybe a combination of all of the above. Either way, I think it would be good to know what strategy is behind this relentless pushing

creshal• 3 years ago

Does Microsoft (plan to) run an ad business?

Microsoft Advertisement is pulling in 10 billion dollars a year (~=5% of total) and Microsoft wants to aggressively expand it.

resoluteteeth• 3 years ago

I don't have the answer. Especially in the past, it seemed like a cost factor to keep up a modern browser (just ask Mozilla) if people might as well install anything else and still buy your OS and use your services.

Microsoft ditched their own browser engine and the current version of edge is just using chromium, so it's cheap to maintain.

Edge uses bing by default so Microsoft can serve you ads, and it has a shopping plugin built in which also probably generates revenue. They can also try to redirect people to other microsoft services whenever they want in the future.

foobarbecue• 3 years ago

Every time I visit my parents, I find they've reverted to using Edge and don't know why. Despite my best efforts, they don't seem to have the will or technical ability to resist M$ manipulation. It's frustrating.

fsflover3• 3 years ago

I installed Linux for my relatives and they never have this problem (or any other problem!).

npteljes4• 3 years ago

Can I please ask how technical they are, and what distro are you using? And that what are they using the OS for? I'm looking into this passively for years now, and I'm really interested in actual people's experiences.

yomlica82• 3 years ago

I mean it is an aggressive set of dark patterns deployed against people with limited time and understanding. It is constantly being adapted through auto updates to obsolete any ability to resist it they have formed. It isn't the fault of the people using this software that they can't keep up with the non-stop deception treadmill run by a team of professionals (guided by their telemetry data) whose whole occupation is to find ways to manipulate users of the software. Well, it might be their fault that they choose to put up with it I guess.

jabroni_salad• 3 years ago

For a lot of consumers, using a computer involves a bunch of incomprehensible popups informing them "heres some bullshit button you have to click on to get on with things" until they finally arrive at their destination. They do not know what any of it does and are effectively lost until they get to somewhere familiar. You can trick them into doing literally anything as long as you put a blue button next to a grey button.

RajBhai2• 3 years ago

The other day I tried to install Chrome on a new laptop. (Insert joke about what Edge is good for.) However, Edge wasn't letting me actually download the Chrome installer. When I clicked the download button on the Chrome website, instead of any indication of its progress or completion, Edge instead displayed a pop-up that kept reassuring me that Edge was just as good.

So it turns out, Edge isn't even good enough to fulfill its meme.

LeanderK• 3 years ago

wait a minute...were you able to download chrome in the end? Or was edge straight up refusing to download it?

ivanmontillam• 3 years ago

I got curious and tried it. Yes, the installer is downloaded, but there are a bunch of banners when attempting it.

RajBhai2• 3 years ago

If I recall, the automatic download didn't work. I had to click the manual download link.

The pop-up said Edge was based on Chrome with the added trust of MS.

I really wish I could get others to use Firefox, but they're too used to Chrome.

coffeeling8• 3 years ago

I just tried it out, Edge showed the banner twice, once over the Chrome download confirmation (when the browsers asks if you're sure you want to keep an .exe file), and the second didn't obey the X to close. I had to click on the downloads list to be able to tell Edge to keep the Chrome installer.

spuz• 3 years ago

Interestingly those banners telling you Edge is just as good only appear when you Bing Chrome, not Firefox.

pnt12• 3 years ago

Download Edge, then download Firefox, then download Chrome.

Edge: the best browser downloader downloader!

coffeeling8• 3 years ago

65• 3 years ago

Thank god Valve exists for their work getting Steam games to work on Linux. A lot of the captive Windows audience is gamers. With another option, people don't have to put up with Microsoft's OS terrorism.

puskavi• 3 years ago

But not W10? Of course not, because that's what everyone is using.

prng2021• 3 years ago

As an American, I'm more annoyed that our government isn't working to protect consumers than I am at Microsoft. Microsoft is acting predictably from a business perspective. This is just a repeat of the Internet Explorer debacle decades ago.

denton-scratch4• 3 years ago

Microsoft is acting predictably from a business perspective

A business can be predictable without being shitty to the core. Microsoft has been a shitty scofflaw company since the day it was founded. Apple and Google are pretty shitty, but they weren't in their early days. Microsoft has always been a criminal racket.

npteljes4• 3 years ago

This hits the nail on the head. The issue is that the system is shitty - the entities within the system practically have to act shitty, otherwise the other one that does goes ahead and takes the profit. Doing the right thing is often not just orthogonal to business, but is actually hurting it directly. So not only is there no incentive to do the right thing, there's direct incentive to do the opposite.

moistoreos• 3 years ago

I wouldn't expect this to ever happen post-Citizens United.

bjackman• 3 years ago

I think this is the smart way to see it. Tax avoidance is another example. Being angry with Amazon for not paying tax is like being angry at the sea for sinking your ship. The absolute best case scenario is that boycotting Amazon leads to Amazon paying marginaly more taxes, and every other company and billionaire on earth continues to avoid it.

Instead, it makes more sense to direct your energy towards the government that's letting them get away with it.

Same with monopolies; it's absolutely fundamental to their nature that we don't have any leverage over them as consumers. We can either cry impotently about Google and MS being bad guys or we can actually demand our governments do something about it. It's bizarre how often people choose the former!

TheRealDunkirk• 3 years ago

We just need a new era of trust-busting. It's what pulled our economic system back from where it was headed in the "robber baron" era of the early 1900's, and allowed for the post-war boom. The Fortune 500 has learned to stop at duopolies and triopolies, but private equity is quietly trying to monopolize literally everything else. Lina Kahn and the current FTC have been trying, but they are hampered by the economic forces, corporations, and billionaires that have gotten us to this place already, and I just don't see them making much substantive progress. It certainly doesn't help that the public is also filled with Microsoft stans who think allowing them to buy Activision somehow "increases competition," when what they really mean is that they just hate that Microsoft is in third place behind Sony and Nintendo, as if this means the gaming division is somehow a failure, and pressure the FTC to back off of preventing more consolidation.

denton-scratch4• 3 years ago

Much too little, much too late. Nothing I own runs Windows any more. I now swear at computers much less often.

CalRobert• 3 years ago

Now break up Alphabet before attestation really kicks in so we can still use Firefox and not just reskins of Chrome.

JacobSeated• 3 years ago

This is the expected, most intuitive, and only sensible behavior, and yet Microsoft somehow, for some reason, decides it is okay not to use the default browser?

Wait a minute. Are they trying to cause me to have a complete meltdown? This is so irritating. The task bar can also no longer be placed vertically on the left or right. Imo. Microsoft should be forced to open source important parts of Windows so that these processes can be more democratized by users of the system.

simooooo• 3 years ago

The other day, I got an explicit “please use Edge” popup on my desktop. They don’t currently care about the EU

pbmonster3• 3 years ago

And it's not even happy if you're using Edge already (as I have to for work). When you're browsing in Edge, it will sometimes - mid-typing - just pop up a tab with an add for Bing and it's new AI features.

And it's a real tab, not a pop-up, so I haven't figured out how to tell uBlock to suppress it yet.

userbinator• 3 years ago

The source of older versions of Windows was "forced open", a long time ago, unfortunately not legally.

hooby• 3 years ago

So... does anyone have any good guesses what actually caused them to do this?

I mean, obviously they want to push Edge - but for some reason their hands were forced within the EEA. I'd be interested to know that reason :)

_cenw3• 3 years ago

In my experience, Microsoft is in weekly meetings with supervisory authorities, and they have a constant risk assessment of just ignoring EU regulations beyond GDPR going on.

I've submitted a few GDPR requests that had an impact on Microsoft too - so if you're an EU citizen, make a good habit of complaining about bad data hygiene and anticompetitive behavior.

trimethylpurine2• 3 years ago

I wonder which competitor lobbied for this and will now be doing the same thing.

cowl2• 3 years ago

No competitor lobied for this. it's the users that "lobied".

trimethylpurine2• 3 years ago

How do we know?

helsinkiandrew• 3 years ago

In the European Economic Area (EEA), Windows system components use the default browser to open links.

That shows such complete and utter contempt for the wishes of their users. The user has actively selected a browser as the one they want to use by default, but windows only uses it in the EEA because they were forced to.

As it will be used by EEA system components, there's presumably no technical/compatibility issues that would stop the rest of the world using it to.

skummetmaelk• 3 years ago

Let's see what the people always screaming about how the EU only cares about fining American tech companies who do nothing wrong will respond to this.

danuker2• 3 years ago

The manipulators mostly reach for low-effort high-exposure interventions. They wouldn't actually engage in honest debate.

whatwhaaaaat3• 3 years ago

I think mostly people condemn the eu for its attempt at censorship.

The eu would actually have to have a big tech company consumers actually interface with in order to fine them -besides just hardware.

Spivak• 3 years ago

I think the stance is that while what the EU does is good for the consumer it's annoying as hell for American tech companies to be assessed billion dollar fines all the time. If the punishment was "comply in 180 days or we'll suspend your business charter" I think you'd see a lot more support.

xg154• 3 years ago

I hope someone manages to write a crack or something that enables the same behaviour in non-EEA locales, if only to see what mental gymnastics MS will engage in to explain why that would be bad for users.

martin_a2• 3 years ago

How are they going to implement it anyway? Based on the location you provide while setting Windows up? IP lookup?

I mean, there needs to be a safe way, so I invite everyone to become European for this patch. :-)

pjerem3• 3 years ago

there's presumably no technical/compatibility issues that would stop the rest of the world using it to.

There never were an technical issue in defining the default browser. It's something that worked on any OS since nearly 30 years, including Windows.

It's 100% disrespect.

xg154• 3 years ago

Not to mention that MS already went out of their way and spent considerable technical effort to not have the system apps respect the default browser setting - such as introducing a separate URL scheme for "edge-only" links, then later patching the scheme registry so that no other app could register itself as a handler for that scheme.

It was never a technical issue, on the contrary.

dark-star• 3 years ago

Not completely correct. In the past there were technical issues opening "system service sites" with any other browser, because ActiveX controls only worked in Internet Explorer

tempodox3• 3 years ago

Complete disrespect for the end luser is nothing new with Microsoft.

_fat_santa• 3 years ago

I have to ask a really basic question: Why does Microsoft have such a vested interest in users using Edge over competitors?

I get the argument: "it's their browser, of course they want people to use it" but for me that answer isn't satisfactory. What is the financial motive to go through all the trouble of pushing Edge? The only reason I can think of is "your data" but even then, what sort of data might MS want to extract from your browser that they can't get from the underlying OS?

readams• 3 years ago

Default Bing and Microsoft integration. So ad revenue.

arkx• 3 years ago

Your web browsing habits reveal a lot more about you than your desktop habits.

WirelessGigabit• 3 years ago

Have you used Microsoft Edge recently? It is a dumping ground for all things that Microsoft wants to try in a way that is easier to do than sending A/B testing out via Windows Update.

* Collections

* Shopping

* Browser Essentials

* Website scanning

* Outlook integration

* Games integration

* ...

QuantumGood2• 3 years ago

Not necessarily an answer, but an overview of the topics in the domain space of your question might include:

- DATA COLLECTION: Allows Microsoft to collect user data for analytics, targeted advertising, and product improvement.

- REVENUE GENERATION: Advertisements and search engine partnerships generate revenue for Microsoft.

- ECOSYSTEM INTEGRATION: Encourages use of other Microsoft products, enhancing user experience.

- VENDOR LOCK-IN: User familiarity discourages switching to competitors, ensuring long-term revenue.

- COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE: Maintaining a popular browser aids in negotiation with third-party service providers.

- SOFTWARE CONTROL: Allows Microsoft to guide software standards, impacting web development.

- USER EXPERIENCE: Direct control over browser enhances customer support and troubleshooting.

GrinningFool• 3 years ago

A generous interpretation is that they don't want to worry about the resources used by internal OS components being compatible across infinite variety of browser vendors, versions, add-ons (and those versions), etc.

burnte• 3 years ago

I have to ask a really basic question: Why does Microsoft have such a vested interest in users using Edge over competitors?

FOMO and Paranoia. Anything that looks like a market they might miss out on they get scared, freak out, create a shit product and jump in the market with HUGE marketing/info campaigns to convince everyone theirs is the best product, and then it turns out it's not really a profitable market at all. But at least they weren't usurped.

coffeeling8• 3 years ago

Advertising is really lucrative. MS wants to get a bigger share of the pie, and that's done by driving people to use Bing. Also, if Bing Chat gets people used to using AI chatbots for search, that dramatically increases the cost of delivering search. Search results are not a huge chunk of Microsoft's revenue, but they are Google's main source of income. Search standardizing on LLM chatbots would take a huge chunk out of Google's margins.

bengkoang• 3 years ago

Just see chrome current intention now? What purpose they promote chrome crazily in the early days. It's to monopolize and becoming the dominant player which control how the policy of interneting favor to their ads activity

waffletower• 3 years ago

Microsoft is unwilling to evolve ethically as a company on this point. They don't understand that we remember who they are, and you don't have to use the wayback machine to remind yourself: https://www.theringer.com/tech/2018/5/18/17362452/microsoft-...

1vuio0pswjnm7• 3 years ago

With Github. Microsoft now controls much of the world's open source code. Wonderful.

kyriakos• 3 years ago

It also shows how the EU keeps mega corps in line while other government bodies allow companies to get away with these things.

voytec• 3 years ago

In other words: Microsoft only respect users when forced.

onemoresoop• 3 years ago

It seems like we have to do a lot of work in the US to empower the consumer, at least to catch up with Europe.

cebert• 3 years ago

I am very irritated that I have made it very clear that I wish to use Firefox as my default browser in Windows 11. However, tools such as Microsoft Outlook and Office keep trying to force me into Edge by opening links in it by default. You don't gain converts by forcing something onto users.

pessimizer• 3 years ago

You don't gain converts by forcing something onto users.

You're not looking for converts when you're forcing somebody to do something. Most of Microsoft's business has always been about forcing people to use things. The other choice is a company that you have to pay a premium to choose, but then you're forced to stay or else lose your stake. None of this is competition, it's all market manipulation.

stainablesteel• 3 years ago

meanwhile the other article currently on the front page about microsoft is them using malware-like popups to get people to ditch chrome

nice

cbshearer• 3 years ago

sad part is that the current iteration of Edge is actually good.

these spammy tactics and built in coupon addons make it feel trashy.

rhizome31• 3 years ago

Lots of outraged comments but few will close their GitHub account and stop using VSCode.

yrro• 3 years ago

Now if only PWAs running in Edge would do the same thing...

(Sick of links I click in Teams opening in Edge instead of my system's default browser!)

Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

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