Ask HN: I Want to have a small Linux laptop. What are my options?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36031789

by in9 • 3 years ago

31 83 3 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Buy laptops to run Linux is a bit of fortune wheel. Usually older models have better support due to more developement time. Yesterday I saw an M2 MacBook air and the build seemed really nice. Great for travel. However those are expensive, and I love Linux.

What are some options with a similar feel? Good for travel, seems sturdy, and a nice screen? Samsung has a few options, but idk how's the Linux support on their models.

bombcar• 3 years ago

How small is small? The framework 13 might fit the bill but it is not as "polished" as the MacBook.

Depending on the power requirements, the last Intel MacBook might be a good option.

fsflover• 3 years ago

There are Librem 14, https://puri.sm/products/librem-14, and Lemur Pro, https://system76.com/laptops/lemur.

monero-xmr• 3 years ago

For what it's worth, System76 are the first linux laptops I ever bought (and I've bought so, so many) that felt like it Just Worked. I recommend.

yoyohello13• 3 years ago

I'll second the Lemur Pro.

I really like mine. Everything worked out of the box, and I tend to get ~12 hours of battery life.

joshrotenberg• 3 years ago

The System 76 Pangolin might be an option, too, if 15" isn't too big. There is a decent, recent in depth review here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/review-system76-pang...

AlexeyBrin• 3 years ago

I have an 11" Chromebook (Intel CPU) with the Linux extension enabled (you get a Debian VM), I can run any Linux program on it, even programs that require graphics. It is perfect for travel (battery is good for about 8 - 10 hours, depending on usage). If you decide to go on this route, make sure that you buy a supported machine (as in it will receive updates for at least a few years from now).

sandworm1013• 3 years ago

I also have a windows VM on my laptop. That doesn't make my laptop a windows machine. A from-the-bios-up linux install is a fundamentally different security scheme than having the ability to run linux software in a VM.

ghostpepper2• 3 years ago

In this case I'd argue the Chromebook is much more secure from the firmware up

itomato4• 3 years ago

You can’t do as much as you suggest because you’re inside Crouton and sharing 4GB of ram with Chrome.

I also run this config as a daily. The Debian container experience is seriously lacking compared to native.

itg• 3 years ago

Thinkpad X1 Carbon? Linux on Thinkpads have always worked fine for me.

vhodges• 3 years ago

I am quite happy with my 12th gen 13" Framework running NixOS. Everything I need seems to work out of the box (sleep/resume (not using hibernate though), Touchpad, camera, mic, etc) and seems quite stable.

The 13th Gen (w/i7 only?) has a bigger batter so battery life should be better (a chief concern for some - though I am almost always plugged in). The new version also has an option for a matte screen. There's also an option (coming) for an AMD based system (eg better iGPU).

Almost everything is repairable/replaceable... and in a year or three, when I want to upgrade to a newer/faster system, I know I'll be able too (the upcoming AMD MB is tempting but my machine is less than a year old and I can't justify the cost)

dhruvmittal• 3 years ago

+1 on this, I've got a 11th gen 13" Framework running Archlinux. As with yours, everything works out of the box (and I do use hibernate). Waiting to see some reviews o the new AMD boards before I make the leap (hopefully sometime next year, or maybe the next AMD generation).

jvanderbot• 3 years ago

+1 framework. Its light, super versatile, and plenty stable with debian or Ubuntu

smeej• 3 years ago

-1 Framework. Mine does not sleep. I've tried it all, and it won't sleep. It certainly won't hibernate. It's either on or it's off.

It's nice to use at home, but it's pretty much useless anywhere else.

kreetx• 3 years ago

Are there others with this issue? A quick google says it should work. I don't have a Framework laptop myself but an 2016 MBP with linux on it, LVM in LUKS, and hibernation works.

stavros• 3 years ago

Agreed, I love my Framework 13, though maybe you want to hold off for a month or two to get the new AMD option.

mkozlows2• 3 years ago

Yeah, 12th gen Framework works basically perfectly. They have a guide for installing various distributions (the one for Fedora is here: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Fedora+37+Installation+on+th...). Following that, I've been running Fedora 36 and now 37 problem-free, with the only real asterisk being needing to disable brightness-sensing to enable the brightness keys.

I know the 11th gen wasn't quite as smooth, and 13th gen isn't really in people's hands yet (but they are increasingly aware, and supportive, of their Linux-using audience, so I'd be surprised if there were issues). EDIT: Their Linux page does in fact list the 13th gen as being officially supported with Fedora and Ubuntu: https://frame.work/linux

FWIW, even if you don't run Arch, I find that the Arch wiki pages tend to be full of tons of great technical detail, and their page on the Framework backs up the "mostly everything just works" vibe: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Framework_Laptop_13

ggr23422• 3 years ago

I have used Asus, Dell and HP Laptops with Ubuntu on them. The battery management is so pathetic that within a few months the battery is fried. Now, I have Ubuntu on my Desktop and Windows 10 on my laptop although I hate it.

pmontra• 3 years ago

Which line of HP laptops? The battery in my ZBook from 2014 lasted until the end of last year before dropping to 75% overnight and lasting about two hours unplugged. As a reference, the new battery I replaced it with drops only to 95+%.

I used Ubuntu all those years before switching to Debian

ggr23422• 3 years ago

I remember the models of Asus and Dell.

Asus X555ld

Dell Vostro some briefcase model.

i2cmaster2• 3 years ago

That's typically a firmware/climate thing more than an OS thing IME.

oneearedrabbit• 3 years ago

This may be a bit esoteric -- eee pc 701/901 if you get can get by with Atom N270.

sethrin• 3 years ago

I loved my eee but I can't imagine going back to that platform these days; it's workable for programming but it struggles with almost every task. You're going to want to run xfce or something rather than gnome or kde, among other things. I'd prefer a system76 laptop these days.

bacchusracine2• 3 years ago

>I loved my eee but I can't imagine going back to that platform these days

I really miss my old eeepc901 some days but I agree. Going back to those slow atom processors is really a nonstarter. But the size and form factor (with exception of the nonstandard screen aspect ratio) was just about the perfect 'take anywhere' laptop. I used Ubuntu on it and if I had to do it again in this day and age I'd try to see if I could make Ubuntu-Mate to work on it. Being able to set the font sizes and the icon sizes made that nonstandard screen aspect ratio work far better than it ever did in Windows XP.

giantrobot• 3 years ago

Such a system could be fine up until you need to open a graphical browser. If you can get by with 2008 workloads it would be fine. I don't say this as a disparaging comment about the eeePC, it was an alright machine for the workloads of its era. It's more a problem with modern websites being festooned with JavaScript.

The other issue with an older eeePC is the original SSD may have non-trivial wear issues and the battery is likely shot. Unless you get the machine for next to nothing fixing those issues will cost as much as just a brand new cheapo laptop.

Toutouxc• 3 years ago

My ex-girlfriend used to have a thing called Asus E200HA. It was amazingly cheap, cute as hell and even reasonably fast in Windows. I’d immediately buy a newer machine like that if it could run Linux.

jacek• 3 years ago

Thinkpad X1 Nano. I think you can even order with Linux preinstalled.

wing-_-nuts3• 3 years ago

The dell xps 13 is a really nice laptop, and it's fully compatible with linux because dell even has a 'developer edition' of the laptop that ships with ubuntu.

zdragnar• 3 years ago

I was really unimpressed with mine. I've never quite figured out what got the XPS such a good reputation. By comparison, the lg gram Just Worked, though I don't know if they make a 13" model.

tstrimple• 3 years ago

My last "PC" laptop experiment was a fully loaded XPS 15. It's probably the tech purchase I regret most in my life. I cannot fathom how that $3k laptop passes for high quality. Constantly runs hot so you're not even able to take advantage of the dedicated GPU since it's always throttling. Fans are almost always running full blast. Driver issues with what is supposed to be an amazing display ruined the entire experience. Not to mention the sleep / hibernation issues which require you to manually shut down your laptop before closing the lid or it's a 50/50 shot it will continue to run full power in your backpack cooking itself to death.

jokethrowaway2• 3 years ago

This is the flimsiest laptop I've ever had.

It's a big no for me.

wing-_-nuts3• 3 years ago

Huh, I wonder if recent models have gotten significantly worse, cause the build quality on mine is quite good.

GlibMonkeyDeath• 3 years ago

I love my Dell XPS 13 running Ubuntu - yes, a lot of things (docking stations, video conferencing tools, etc.) that "just work" on Windows and Mac need some TLC to get working, but once over that hump it's been great.

mkozlows2• 3 years ago

I'm going to push back on this one for Linux: The "developer edition" thing was nice when they first started it out and Linux laptops were super-rare. But even then, it was clear that this was a Windows machine that was awkwardly cajoled into mostly-kinda supporting Linux. Some stuff didn't work, there are proprietary drivers that only work with Ubuntu, and in general it just required a lot of tweaking to get it to work at all, in a way that makes it fragile to change -- you really need to run the preloaded Ubuntu and nothing else.

Now that there are machines out there that work out of the box with any upstream Linux kernel, the XPS Windows-first, Linux-eventually model just doesn't seem appealing.

And very concretely, one problem with it is that there's a wait between the Windows version appearing and the Linux-mostly-supporting one appearing. With the recent XPS 13 refresh to the 9315 model, there is currently no developer edition available (Dell lists it as "discontinued" if you go to its webpage), and the Arch wiki shows major compatibility problems, like the webcam not working: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Laptop/Dell

wing-_-nuts3• 3 years ago

Yeah, mine's from ~ 2016 I think. Before that I had a insp 1420 which was also well known for it's linux compatibility. Apparently things have gotten worse in recent years?

dutchbrit• 3 years ago

Do you mind RAM being soldered etc? What are your minimal requirements?

ramesh31• 3 years ago

T420 with an SSD.

jbottoms• 3 years ago

What does your budget recomment. I've seen the XPS 13 for as much as $1400. And there are a number of new no-name laptops for just under $300 on aliexpress.

hooverd• 3 years ago

I have a Thinkpad T14 running Ubuntu. It just works so far.

stack_underflow• 3 years ago

Can also vouch for this. Bought a 2nd gen AMD Thinkpad T14 ~last year and haven't had any issues at all running Debian testing (bookworm). Swapped the m.2 with a 4TB one and added an extra 16GB of RAM to supplement the soldered 16GB. I believe they're on 3rd gen now but I imagine hardware compatibility is probably similar to 2nd gen.

The size/form factor is basically the same as my old T460s which I've had for ~8+ years and is still running, but a bit dated now with a 2c/4t Intel CPU. I believe back then the T460s was the "slim" version of the T460, but Lenovo seems to have dropped the "s" for the T14 even though the dimensions of both seem the same to me, maybe a couple extra mm in height on the T14.

itomato4• 3 years ago

Refurb M1 Air + Asahi.

Wait a cycle then maybe do the same with the M2.

shp0ngle• 3 years ago

What is the current status of Asahi? Seems to be still in Alpha

0atman3• 3 years ago

I daily drive asahi on a mac mini m1 - everything I need to build my music, podcasts, code, and yt videos[1] works great.

The raspberry pi has given us 10 years of warm-up for ARM compatibility.

[1] eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY0XwMOSzq4

RSHEPP3• 3 years ago

Does Asahi maintain the crazy battery life these have? The battery life on my work Macbook Pro has me interested in switch to an Air for personal use.

0atman3• 3 years ago

Still needs some optimisation, but my m1 air oh asahi still has crazy battery life. Gets better every month!

0atman3• 3 years ago

This is it - nothing beats my asahi m1 air on anything: price, battery life, desktop cpu grunt, no throttling either thermally or on battery. I can't believe the best arm machine is made by Apple, 3 years on.

Eventually we'll have arm machines made by other PC manufacturers, I'm most excited by Lenovo, but till then. $600 gets you a powerhouse of a machine.

RSHEPP3• 3 years ago

where are you buying these for $600? Lowest I am seeing is $800.

bacchusracine2• 3 years ago

Eventually we'll have arm machines made by other PC manufacturers

As someone who has been waiting for this to happen for nearly fifteen years now, you'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

wtf77• 3 years ago

But at this point, why not use OSX directly? In the end, you can do the same things as on Linux. What can you do on Linux that you can't do on Mac?

callmewind• 3 years ago

For travelling I'm using an HP Stream 11 laptop. Low powered, for 200EUR or less, but you cand do lots of tasks, just don't open too many tabs. A travelling laptop must be cheap for me, because it is always on risk of being lost/stolen/broken.

sandworm1013• 3 years ago

I've owned a few Acer laptops over the years. Linux runs well on them. They don't run Linux perfectly but nor would they be perfect under windows. Anything as complex as a laptop will run into software v. hardware issues from time to time. If you want seamlessness, pay up for an Apple. If you aren't rich, buy a generic laptop, install linux from a thumbdrive, and be ready to occasionally fix things. Don't buy some weird Chinese machine with an esoteric multi-CPU setup with a third LCD screen built into trackpad and a keyboard that shoots RGB lasers. If you get the most common laptop in your price range from Amazon then there is a 99% chance that it will run linux about as perfectly as it will run windows.

karmakurtisaani• 3 years ago

To add to the point of not getting a too unique laptop, it's also important not to get too fringe a Linux distro. I've had Kubuntu on my Acer laptop for ages and experienced practically no issues at all.

Ubuntu's official web page has a list of verified laptops running a given version of Ubuntu as well, possibly worth giving a look.

bkallus• 3 years ago

This is good advice in general, but the Asus screenpad does work in Linux and it's extremely cool. Shows up just like a normal display!

jokethrowaway2• 3 years ago

I tried pretty much everything except the Framework and I have no hope.

Personally I'd go for a MacBook and run Linux in a VM because I'm afraid the battery life on Linux won't be good enough.

If you can stand the look of Thinkpads they're quite durable. I'd give Framework a chance, albeit I've heard conflicting reviews.

Dell, Surface, Lenovo, HP: utter garbage.

My current setup is an old MacBook running Mac for travelling and a Linux desktop PC.

I used to have a MacBook 2015 running Linux and it was pretty neat, but Linux support is just not there with my current MacBook.

logn• 3 years ago

Look for a discounted Lenovo ThinkPad that you can test out in store to make sure it has a sturdy keyboard and can handle key presses without a hollow feeling.

I'd recommend trying to install Alpine Linux as a challenge and it ends up teaching you a lot about the simplicity of the OS and beauty of OpenRC.

Otherwise, Debian is a very reliable and easy to use/install OS and well tested on Lenovo hardware. Failing that, install Ubuntu which has invested much in compatibility with ThinkPads, specifically X1's but those are expensive and cheaper models are often just as compatible.

If you have problems running wireless, the easiest solution is sometimes to figure out if your wifi card is officially supported and swap out the one in the PC with an older and more compatible wifi card.

Sleep and hibernate are often problematic. Find a workaround that works well enough.

in92• 3 years ago

I'm an Arch user (manjaro when I'm feeling lazy). But the Alpine Installation challenge seems fun :D OpenRC has been in my list to dive into, and I think its worth a try :D Thanks for the suggestion!

itomato4• 3 years ago

All ThinkPads are not equal. A Yoga for example, is more like an IdeaLad in terms of hardware spec and support.

dejawu• 3 years ago

Give the MacBook (12-inch, 2015-2019) a look. They're Intel based and you can find a top end model for a few hundred bucks on ebay. I love mine - the weight and size make it incredibly easy to move with. They're also great to have as a second laptop, which never made sense given their price when new, but now that they're cheaper they're perfect for the role.

shebnik• 3 years ago

Running Mint 20 on ThinkPad P15 Gen 1 with GPU installed. It took some time to get it working through GPU on Display Port (but I don't recall what I did). Was fine for ~about year, but recently I am having Telegram crashing when clicked on a picture or video. (Mysteriously, this happens only when displaying through DP with 4k resolution - 1080p is still working).

Other than that no other issues.

firewire• 3 years ago

My current daily driver is a Thinkpad X230 running Mint which honestly does everything I need it to. The processor holds up pretty well and the storage and RAM are easily upgradable. The screen is my only real gripe and even that is merely fine. I've heard others upgrade them with different IPS panels too though I haven't looked much into that.

However, if you want something with the horsepower of the M2 MacBooks I have colleagues that run the Dell XPS 13.

One company that always interested me in the Linux specific laptop space is Star Labs out of the UK. They seem to have a competitive offering in the Starbook line when compared to manufacturers like Purism and System 76. They also have a very small netbook style laptop but the processor seems pretty weak on it.

i2cmaster2• 3 years ago

Older 13 inch Intel MBPs are great. I'm on a refurbished Thinkpad 11e that I paid $60 from NewEgg for upgraded to the max 8GB of ram and I'm happy with it.

Obviously if you want to run something heavy like Twitter or g++ or Gnome you'll want something expensive.

codecutter• 3 years ago

I bought my last 2 laptops from System76 with pre-installed Ubuntu and Pop_OS Linux. I have been very happy with the build quality and their support, so I will recommend them.

nathants• 3 years ago

any thinkpad p, t, or x.

markuman123• 3 years ago

Surface Go

kevinherron• 3 years ago

Thinkpad X1 Carbon? Not cheap, but really nice.

PAPPPmAc• 3 years ago

I've had really good luck with the one generation old relatively up-market Dells - their consumer products tend to be mediocre, but the Latitudes and Precisions are typically good hardware ... look for Dells that start with a "7".

My little 12-13" class carryin' around laptops for the last many years have been a first-party refurbished Latitude E7250 succeeded by a similarly refurb Latitude 7390. Replacement after not quite 5 years because I finally got a tiny hairline crack in the LCD that caused some discoloration in the corner of the screen, from a hit that would have bent the corner of an aluminum chassis machine, and it was starting to struggle with running video conferencing at the same time as my usual workloads. First party refurb meaning https://www.dellrefurbished.com/ - It's a joint venture by FedEx and Dell, stock is "whatever they have right now" but there are always machines coming through, and there are usually coupons that make it even cheaper, so pick what you want and watch for a few weeks if you can.

As you note, going for a generation old machine not only gives time for the hardware support to settle out, it makes it _much_ cheaper: Both of those were around $500 for examples optioned up to 1920x1080 screens, the newer one has 16GB of RAM in it, etc., and I kind of prefer that the machine I carry around day-to-day isn't something I have to be super precious about.

In the two example cases, everything _except_ a Broadcom smartcard reader that I don't have any compelling use for anyway worked out of the box with little-to-no configuration, I get credibly 10-12 hours of usable battery out of the newer one (I'm running a full-integration KDE on Arch setup, so it's not light but it's also running active power management), and the 7250's (readily replaceable if I chose to) battery still has 78% of its design capacity after years of cycles.

...or if you want a truly low-end beater, buy an EOL Chromebook for like $50, flash a UEFI Coreboot payload (MrChromebox maintains builds for most of the common models) and hack on it mercilessly. They're low-end, but are fine at being low end, and the ones built for the education market will take a _beating_. I have one that I use as a media player/reference materials display when doing potentially destructive things like sanding/filing/paint stripping or what have you. I got it to do that as a Chromebook, but after it was getting concerningly out of date once the model passed AUE, I flashed it and now it's usually running some weird stack (currently Hyprland) that I want to try out on a machine I actually use without interfering with machines I do real work on.

in92• 3 years ago

Too much wisdom in those paragraphs! Will certainly have an eye out for the refurbished options. Usually I'm also a very happy with Dells, and one of the most powerfull laptops I've had the chance of working with was an old Latitude (those with a purple finish) and boy it was a beast.

The chrome books seem like a nice path as well.

I'd love to lear more about the nomenclature/model codes that the main manufacturers use. I had no idea "7"s were the reliable ones :D

mcsniff• 3 years ago

I have an old gen (9350) Dell XPS13 that I still haven't found a replacement for, recently replaced the battery in it, this thing is almost 10 years old and still great.

I'm considering the X1 Nano Gen2 (Gen1 and Gen3 are capped at 16GB for some reason).

pengo• 3 years ago

My daily driver is still a Dell XPS13 I bought in 2018 when it was the highest spec XPS13 available. I replaced it with a later (and higher spec) XPS13 in late 2021, but didn't like Dell's changes to the keyboard layout and returned to using the older machine. I'm looking at a 13" Framework with the AMD chipset, but holding off for now in case Linux on an M2 Macbook Pro matures quickly enough to be an option.

lioeters• 3 years ago

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/thinkpad/

https://system76.com

https://frame.work/

https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/scc/sr/laptops/xps-laptops

shermozle• 3 years ago

If you don't need crazy big RAM or crazy big CPU, and unless it's for games you probably don't, then go old.

Old Lenovo X1 Carbons are <1.4kg and perform really well. Gen 7 or so can be had for a few hundred bucks.

I just bought an MS Surface Pro 5 to run Linux and the hardware is delightful. Less thrilled with Ubuntu/Gnome in tablet mode, but as a laptop it's rather good. AU$200 it cost me.

zamnos• 3 years ago

How small? The GPD win 3/4 is currently top of my wish list, and it'll run Linux.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GPD_Win_3

simonblack• 3 years ago

I use Lenovo laptops, customised at purchase time to use mainly Intel peripheral chips for stuff like networking or display. (Only needed two since 2010, T410 followed by P53)

I use Mint MATE for my desktop environment. (Since about 2012)

It's what 'Works for Me'.

(I have never ever used Windows for my daily system. UNIX from 1991 to 2001. Linux only since 2001.)

mosquito520• 3 years ago

It's depend on your priority If you're prefer better mechanical or industrial design, if you think that macbook is better, well, I'm no comment

if you're prefer long term usage, As you say, older model would less weird issue (Graphic/Wifi),

Intel cpu would less issue (My desktop Ryzen5 2400g was randomly freeze before, but that freeze issue does not occur recently, maybe half year or one year? I'm not sure it cause by kernel upgrade or I've change some configuration)

You may choose a old laptop that you're able to replace battery, ssd(avoid mount on mainboard)

my experience, I'm using asus UX31LA with linux mint (it was scrapped, waiting to discard, I've pick up from our accountant scrapyard)

intel i5-4200u

4GB ram (enable zram to increase ram space, you may pick a 8GB+ model)

256GB ssd (enough for me, but it depend on your use case)

replace battery by my own

it work over 4 years, and still working.

Saphyel• 3 years ago

My recommendations are:

* Framework (easy to upgrade)

* slimbook (great customer care and support and the laptop are nice)

* Dell XPS

Triangle9349• 3 years ago

I really like mine Lenovo Yoga 7 14ARB7, updated with 780m will be released soon. sometimes there are huge lenovo discounts

Ask HN: I Want to have a small Linux laptop. What are my options?

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