Why does a plastic-wrapped turkey sandwich cost $15 at the NYC airport?

https://hellgatenyc.com/why-is-airport-turkey-sandwich-expensive

by raybb • 3 years ago

671 611 3 years ago

cafard• 3 years ago

In the late 1980s, when I traveled a lot for work, I thought of airports as similar to the debtors' prisons depicted by Dickens: it was unpleasant, it was sort of your fault you were there, and you could purchase comforts, but at inordinate prices.

gretch• 3 years ago

Isn’t this very simple?

It’s just basic supply and demand. Travelers are already exhausted from travel so they are willing to pay high prices for small comforts. Also, some travelers are business travelers and their company foots the bill.

If all travelers collectively stopped buying these foods, the price would drop. But people keep buying them, understandably.

Freak_NL• 3 years ago

If you read the article (you should) you'll note that the shops with the concession do not have the freedom to arbitrarily set such high prices (which would make it that simple), and that the Port Authority who is supposed to ensure that prices adhere to the set guidelines, is apparently not doing its job and is withholding documents that can proof this despite these documents generally being considered open information for citizens to request.

dafelst• 3 years ago

The issue discussed in the article is that the NY Port Authority has regulations to clamp the prices of these items to comparable items in NYC (based on the average of the 3 lowest cost comparables), and they are not being transparent on which comparable items (if any) they are comparing to.

So no, it is not just a simple issue of supply and demand, it is an issue of lack of governmental transparency.

jtefera• 3 years ago

The article mentions that according to the Port Authority rules, vendors can't charge more than 10% of the street price of the equivalent products. So no, you can't charge whatever you want just based on supply and demand.

The article is trying to understand how they determine the base price.

djhope99• 3 years ago

In most cases (especially with food prices like this) paying for lounge access looks like a great option.

tpmx3• 3 years ago

The handful of international business class lounges in the US that I've visited were comparatively quite stingy/basic with food items (compared to typical counterparts in e.g. Europe or Asia).

Anyone got a recommendation for a JFK lounge that's a good deal when you're paying for access?

ericpauley• 3 years ago

The addition of restaurants to Priority Pass has been an especially nice addition here. After deductions (and plus tip) you can often get a nice sit-down meal for the price of plastic-wrapped garbage elsewhere in the airport.

listenallyall4• 3 years ago

Lounges have jacked up pricing as well. Used to be a $25 add-on to a ticket... well worth it when traveling internationally. Recently I've seen $49 or $59 for entry. If you're willing to drop that coin, you can eat pretty well at airport restaurants.

switch007• 3 years ago

I’ve only flown through JFK once but still, my initial thought was “oh only $15?”

pwg• 3 years ago

Why Does a Plastic-Wrapped Turkey Sandwich Cost $15 at the Airport?

Despite the "port authority" rules on 'street pricing', the real reason is lack of competition.

A single vendor receives the food contract for the airport, and they now have monopoly positioning and a captive audience. When business X is the only seller, and when the customers are held captive and unable to "go elsewhere" [1] then prices will naturally rise to the maximum the captive audience is willing to pay.

[1] How many air travelers are willing to exit the security perimeter, to then need to take a cab to somewhere (most airports are not located near dense shopping/restaurant areas) to purchase food, to then have to go back through security to return to their flight? And what few even have enough time between flight legs to even consider that "go outside the airport for food" trip as even possible? Plus by the time the "cab fee" is factored in, even if they could find the identical sandwich for 5.50 on the outside, the $10 + tip or more cab fee there and back would make the sandwich $15 or more in the end anyway.

Swizec2• 3 years ago

even if they could find the identical sandwich for 5.50 on the outside, the $10 + tip or more cab fee there and back would make the sandwich $15 or more in the end anyway

And there you have it, a perfect description of value. The sandwich costs $15 at the airport, because at the airport it’s worth $15. It may be worth less elsewhere, but that’s its value there.

They’re not selling a sandwich, they’re selling a sandwich you can have between flights.

chatmasta• 3 years ago

This doesn't account for all the people who simply don't buy the $15 sandwich, because they planned in advance and ate at home. Nor does it account for the people who decide that a $15 beer is a better value at the airport than a $15 sandwich. The value being measured is the markup, not the full price in isolation.

tshaddox• 3 years ago

Given that staple food likely has fairly low elasticity of demand and food sellers in airports likely have extensive market power, I wouldn’t really make any conclusions about “value.” If sellers increase the price from $10 to $15 and the quantity of sandwiches demanded doesn’t decrease much at all, that’s a pretty good indicator that “value” to the buyer didn’t increase much. If the sellers’ economic profits went up about the same proportion as the price did, that’s another dead giveaway.

Symbiote4• 3 years ago

That's true, but doesn't mean they aren't also jacking up the price because they have the monopoly on selling a sandwich you can have between flights.

Without the artificial barrier of the security perimeter, you'd be able to order food to be delivered to the airport.

TheCoelacanth2• 3 years ago

The value is no higher at the airport than anywhere else. The difference is who is able to capture the surplus value.

At the airport, the vendor captures most of the surplus value due to their monopoly. Elsewhere, the consumer captures a lot of the surplus value due to robust competition between different vendors.

freediverx• 3 years ago

That’s a very pro-capitalist way of saying you don’t really care about free markets. If the airport authority allowed competition and/or if they only granted exclusivity tied to reasonable pricing, then this issue wouldn’t exist.

moomoo112• 3 years ago

I’ve never seen a sandwich store sell sandwiches (talking normal sized sandwich not whatever small bite size they sell as “regular size” with shrinkflation) for less than 12-15 bucks in big cities.

tempusalaria• 3 years ago

In London or Paris it’s $5-6 for a decent sandwich

ericabiz• 3 years ago

I guess it depends on the city. I live in Austin (metro population 2.28M), and most places price sandwiches around $10 or less here.

Here’s Thundercloud, a popular chain (often described as “a step up from Subway”):

https://thundercloud.com/main-menu/

I also checked Jersey Mike’s, another familiar chain, and a regular size “original Italian” is $9.95 here.

I will say that generally Texas tends to have lower prices on food than coastal metros like NYC/SF/LA, but the airport prices mentioned in the article for NYC still seem absurd.

sys_64738• 3 years ago

Essen in Manhattan was 8 bucks.

smelendez3• 3 years ago

This isn’t really a sandwich shop sandwich though. It’s more like something you’d grab off the shelf at CVS or 7-11, where it would be under $10.

A comparable, frankly better looking, sandwich at Whole Foods in Columbus Circle is $7.99.

https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product/whole-foods-market-...

nordsieck• 3 years ago

I’ve never seen a sandwich store sell sandwiches (talking normal sized sandwich not whatever small bite size they sell as “regular size” with shrinkflation) for less than 12-15 bucks in big cities.

I guess it depends on how posh you want your sandwich.

You really have to try to get a Subway (the chain) sandwich that expensive. Same with a burrito from Chipotle, although that may be heretical[1].

---

1. https://flowingdata.com/2017/05/02/sandwich-alignment-chart/

AndrewOMartin• 3 years ago

This might explain the $29 ham and cheese sandwich [1] in NYC, gives airports the right to charge up to $31.9 for a sandwich.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/12i4fot/29_ham_and_che...

pdntspa2• 3 years ago

Jesus christ, what cities are you in? Like come the fuck on. Here in San Diego overpriced sandwiches are $6-$10 at the local 7-11, and that is still way too much.

jononomo2• 3 years ago

What about McDonald's? They sell a chicken sandwich for about $5, and I'm sure there is a McDonald's in every city you've been in.

pduan• 3 years ago

It’s not about the lack of competition or the inconvenience to the traveler.

It’s about the port authority not publicly revealing what the 3 market comparable prices are.

prepend2• 3 years ago

I expect they won’t reveal because the inspector just takes a bribe and there are no valid comparisons done.

martin8412• 3 years ago

Why award the contract for the entire airport to a single company though. My local Spanish airport has a bunch of different options. It's way cheaper, while definitely more expensive than outside the airport. The only price control enforced is on bottled water which can't cost more than 1 EUR.

bombcar• 3 years ago

What's really fun is when you have a ton of apparently completely different stores at an airport and then you realize they're all just fronts for the same company.

Part of the answer is that people going through airports are often buying expense account ones, and they're quite price flexible.

marcosdumay• 3 years ago

Why would the airport enforce competition within their property and reduce the profit it can take from the sellers?

I bet the government is involved on that decision from your local one.

jrockway• 3 years ago

If you're the contract negotiator, finding a single company that won't complain about the kickbacks you ask for is easier than finding a bunch of them, right? And what's the point of working for the Port Authority if you're not going to be corrupt? This is the agency that snarled traffic in the town of a mayor that wouldn't endorse a candidate of the opposite political party, mostly just for the lulz. Predictably, the structure of the Port Authority ensures that nobody can ever be held accountable, and indeed, nobody was.

(If you didn't follow Bridgegate when it was happening, strap in for the most petty government overreach you've ever read about. I've read this article a number of times and honestly, you start reading and you can't look away. It's so good! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal)

Overtonwindow2• 3 years ago

I think this sums it up best. Airports charge more for food because, well, they can. Travelers or a captive market, and have no other choice. I'm old enough to remember when people thought you couldn't bring food through security.

lordnacho• 3 years ago

But the contract itself is also sold by a monopolist. The sandwiches have to pay for rent somehow.

In the end you can extract X amount of money from all the passengers and that gets split between the landlord and the vendor.

So it's not just that the vendor has a monopoly, if they didn't have a monopoly there would still be some amount they'd pay in rent for the captive audience.

treeman79• 3 years ago

Same reason raising taxes on companies doesn’t work. It either gets passed onto the consumer or company goes under if business drops too much.

lp4vn• 3 years ago

Despite the "port authority" rules on 'street pricing', the real reason is lack of competition.

I guess that the lack of competition isn't the only answer, in many cases there are many restaurants/stores in an airport and all of them are very expensive.

The price of the rent in the airport also has to be taken in account. In many airports the restaurants pay outrageous rent values that won't allow them to sell cheap food.

Kalium• 3 years ago

It's my understanding that in most cases, the many restaurants/stores aren't actually separate and in meaningful competition with one another. I have often seen airports with the same packaged food for sale at every store. I'm pretty sure they're in effect many faces of the same business.

Scoundreller8• 3 years ago

in many cases there are many restaurants/stores in an airport

If you lift the peel off, many times they're still operated by the one contractor that has a contract for the whole airport. Even restaurants that typically don't franchise will still run operations under a franchise arrangement in airports. E.g. The Starbucks employees at an airport will be employed by HMS Host (a common airport food concession contractor).

Another captive element is alcohol. Many places only allow licensed establishments to sell it (ie: bars/restaurants), so no competition from the convenience store type concessions. And may be forbidden to consume alcohol outside licensed establishments so can't just buy a beer if convenience stores were legally allowed to sell it so they don't.

(Can recall good times at Amsterdam Schiphol where you could buy a beer for a not-too-insane markup from the convenience store and consume wherever, while in Philadelphia, you were paying like $10+ for one to consume wherever, ugh).

wolpoli• 3 years ago

Is the Port Authority also the landlord as well? If so, that means that the Port Authority has the incentive to find the highest 'street pricing' so that the store has the margin to pay higher rent.

pastacacioepepe• 3 years ago

Despite the "port authority" rules on 'street pricing', the real reason is lack of competition.

The real reason is greed. Competitors can work together to fix prices and they usually do. The reason again is greed.

Competition lowering prices only works when the barrier of entry to the market is very low and it's possible for many actors to compete. For SaaS businesses, where competition can virtually scale infinitely, that's true. Not at all for airports, where competition can only be very limited due to material constraints.

chongli3• 3 years ago

How many air travelers are willing to exit the security perimeter, to then need to take a cab to somewhere…

It doesn’t need to be anywhere near that extreme. Lots of people pay exorbitant prices for food at movie theatres and those facilities tend to be in commercial high traffic areas with tons of food service options such as malls, downtown streets, etc.

It’s really not hard at all to grab a bite before going into the theatre yet people still end up buying the ripoff theatre food!

standardUser5• 3 years ago

People like the distinct food offerings that movie theaters have and are willing to pay more because it's part of the experience. Not true at all with airports.

yunwal2• 3 years ago

Most movie theaters I’ve been in don’t allow outside food or drinks. Of course, it’s never that hard to sneak in, but still discourages most people

13of404• 3 years ago

The really silly thing is that unlike at a movie theater, you can make yourself the same sandwich for $1.50 and bring it with you to the plane. The US has plugged this loophole, at least to a certain extent, by seizing your food even if you just have a stopover between two other countries. (They took my banana in NYC on a flight from Paris to Vancouver and I'm still bitter about it.)

walterlb• 3 years ago

You can bring food into a movie theater without too much trouble in my experience.

pixl97• 3 years ago

Many places don't allow the transfer of uninspected fruit and vegetables to prevent the spread of disease.

docandrew• 3 years ago

Fresh fruit is usually subject to customs restrictions for international travel due to concerns about agricultural pests, I don’t think this particular case was collusion with the airport vendors (but these days you never know).

LorenPechtel2• 3 years ago

No, this isn't malice. There's plenty of stuff you could legally bring. Fresh fruit is decided not permitted, though--while the odds of a pest coming along are low the consequences can be severe. We don't permit food to come in that might be carrying pests that are not endemic to the US. Australia is more isolated and thus even more strict because there are more things they want to keep out.

mcv8• 3 years ago

unlike at a movie theater, you can make yourself the same sandwich for $1.50 and bring it with you to the plane

You can do that at a movie theater too. At least, I did it back when I was poor. Well, not with a sandwich, but I got some M&Ms and a drink at a nearby supermarket to take into the theater, because that saves a lot of money.

nobody99998• 3 years ago

The really silly thing is that unlike at a movie theater, you can make yourself the same sandwich for $1.50 and bring it with you to the plane. The US has plugged this loophole, at least to a certain extent, by seizing your food even if you just have a stopover between two other countries. (They took my banana in NYC on a flight from Paris to Vancouver and I'm still bitter about it.)

Whether it's silly or not, this isn't some new thing to boost revenue at airports. The US has long prohibited the "importation" of food items through airports. In fact, that was a key theme to the 1971 film, La Mortadella[0].

I'm not saying it's a good policy (I even "smuggled" some wonderful Dutch gouda into JFK myself a few years back), nor am I saying it makes sense in this day an age, but it (IIUC) has nothing to do with trying to make you pay more for food at the airport.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Liberty_(film)

Hippocrates3• 3 years ago

My wife was apprehended in a Mexican airport by a beagle regarding a banana in her bag.

Did you know that the bananas we have today are different from the ones we had 50 years ago? The standard banana back then was wiped out by a fungal disease. Today’s bananas are all one variety of GMO, and resistant to such fungus.

That’s why produce is particularly scrutinized.

https://www.treehugger.com/extinct-banana-5201723

lostlogin• 3 years ago

the real reason is lack of competition.

If my limited experience with hospital shops is anything to go by, yes, but it’s not the shop killing your pocket.

The landlord says some variation of ‘you’ll be the only coffee shop’ and the rent is about 8x what is sane.

The shop gets guaranteed business but has to charge a lot to pay the rent.

karaterobot• 3 years ago

I believe you when you say there is a lack of competition, but it seems like the system is set up to prevent that from being consequential: as I understand it, the price should be set as a function of the prices of competitors outside the airport, per the Port Authority's own pricing rules.

So, lack of competition inside the airport would not by itself be able to explain this pricing.

Corruption or incompetence within the Port Authority would explain it, and though I will withhold judgment, it's hard to think of what else it might be. It's even easier to jump to that conclusion when they also deny and conceal when asked for an explanation.

thfuran• 3 years ago

as I understand it, the price should be set as a function of the prices of competitors outside the airport, per the Port Authority's own pricing rules.

That sort of regulation is never very effective. The VA requires that vendors that sell them medical devices do not sell those devices at a higher price elsewhere. They end up buying a lot of SKUs that are only sold to the VA.

woobar• 3 years ago

I am not sure why do you think it is a single vendor. JFK has 50+ shops in just the "Grab and Go" category. [1] I've been to a plenty of airports that have a lot of different vendors of overpriced crappy food.

It is not the competition. It is about extracting maximum of what the customer could pay. Same reason beer is expensive at the event venues. The second part of your comment explains it perfectly.

[1] https://www.jfkairport.com/at-airport/shops-restaurants-and-...

piperswe• 3 years ago

Many, if not most, of those are franchises owned by a single operator.

tpmx3• 3 years ago

Just stating the obvious: JFK Airport is owned by the City of New York. From that, draw your own conclusions...

Scoundreller8• 3 years ago

That would be too simple. It's owned by Port Authority of NY and NJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Authority_of_New_York_and...

tpmx3• 3 years ago

So this ranks high on Google:

https://airportllc.com/who-owns-jfk-airport/

JFK Airport is owned by the City of New York and is managed and operated by the Port Authority which got the lease from New York City in 1947 to build an airport in Queens borough to serve the large NYC Metropolitan area

DerekL3• 3 years ago

No, it is not owned by the City of New York. It's owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is controlled by those two states.

okokwhatever• 3 years ago

"Bring your food" policy is becoming a thing

singron• 3 years ago

TSA will usually pull you aside and search your bag if you have food, so go ahead and take it out first.

xwdv6• 3 years ago

Not if you are TSA pre-check or better yet if you use Clear.

smcin• 3 years ago

No they don't, IME. Pack all your food in one bag in one compartment of your luggage. IME, TSA don't care unless they think it has liquid content. Keep your water bottle separate and empty.

Things you can't get through security check ('liquids'): yoghurts, the salad dressing on a salad. Doubtful about hummus.

On international flights: some fresh fruit (e.g. apples, US CBP), and some dried fruits and nuts, depends on country, see guidelines.

Useful tip: buy trail mix in bulk and repack in a small ziplock food bag in your luggage.

HDThoreaun• 3 years ago

No they won't. Just don't bring drink

rolph2• 3 years ago

this is plain gougeing being hidden by a veil of we cant tell you why because we are obeying the law.

this is becoming a plague, for a further recent example, i cant ask an alexa instance what it just said, it will quote HIPAA as a reason to deny the command

nikanj• 3 years ago

If I had to guess: because fuck you, that’s why. They don’t care, because they know you’ll be back regardless of the price

mwexler• 3 years ago

"Street prices" can also be surprisingly high in NYC. For example, https://gothamist.com/news/why-does-this-ham-and-cheese-cost...

But when public groups restrict data even after an FOI request, it's hard not to wonder if something foul is going on.

notjulianjaynes• 3 years ago

Their argument that they don't want to disclose the names of individual vendors is flawed but somewhat logical. I've seen redactions, for example, on the breakdown of a town's tax revenue by industry when there was only one small business working in a specific industry.

Disclosing the price charged for a sandwich seems far less sensitive however. My hunch is there is likely no record of the comparison sandwiches, and I hope the author of this article appeals their records request to find out if that's true or not.

canucker2016• 3 years ago

How about a ham & cheese sandwich that costs $29+tax ($31.57 total) in Upper East Side Manhattan?

I thought the large pastrami sandwiches for almost $20 was crazy before the pandemic. But for a regular size ham & cheese?

see https://nypost.com/2023/04/14/inflation-raises-price-of-ham-...

smelendez3• 3 years ago

But they don’t have a monopoly and that’s not normal Manhattan pricing. As the article mentions, you can go down the street to Panera or McDonald’s or anywhere else more easily than in the airport.

osnium123• 3 years ago

PDX in Oregon has reasonably priced food. I wonder what their secret is.

rolph2• 3 years ago

perhaps they were done with seeing good food expire on the shelf, and paying to have it destroyed

fisherjeff• 3 years ago

Vendors aren’t allowed to charge higher prices than at their off-airport locations, for one.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/pricey-airport-food/

asah2• 3 years ago

Palm grease is an experiment ingredient, and exempt from FDA labeling rules.

arnejenssen• 3 years ago

"The reason that X costs Y, is that (enough) people buy it".

It has less to do with the actual price of making the goods or service

dplgk• 3 years ago

Doesn't really explain it. If X cost less, more people would buy it. Less people would plan around avoiding eating at the airport.

asah2• 3 years ago

More subtly, why is Newark so much more reasonable? I had a perfectly decent shot down meal at Saison and the prices were high but not crazy.

davidkuennen• 3 years ago

Was able to enjoy the Business Class Lounge a few weeks back in JFK Airport. The lounge sounds almost like a steal in comparison when reading those prices.

x43b• 3 years ago

For the past five years, I have a no eating on travel days policy. Not only do I feel like I am avoiding these high costs, my stomach is less active which is great on travel days.

tracker13• 3 years ago

Yeah, if you get used to not snacking between meals, you begin to learn that typical hunger generally passes, especially if you stay busy/distracted. I usually only eat once or twice a day, and have fasted as long as a week.

bagacrap2• 3 years ago

Staying busy and distracted is the hard part during travel, which is generally a lot of mind-numbing shuffling about.

yuppie_scum• 3 years ago

Don’t allow a monopoly in the airport.. boom, problem solved

subpixel2• 3 years ago

Same reason you can’t buy anything but crap hotdogs in Central Park - vendors pay millions for the exclusive contract to sell and then they sell crap at high prices to cover their investment.

No competition, no innovation, no reason to not gouge tbe punters.

Scoundreller8• 3 years ago

It's not just a Central Park problem: a lot of north america basically forbids the sale of anything from a cart beyond pre-cooked hotdogs and burgers (putting it on the grill is mainly for show and to warm it up).

Kinda makes sense because of lack of hand-washing facilities, but those aren't impossible to set up.

subpixel2• 3 years ago

Not in NYC. Central Park should by rights be a cart-and-truck culinary wonderland.

xwdv6• 3 years ago

It’s really not difficult to build sandwiches that won’t require refrigeration and can be packed into a container for consumption on long trips, people just don’t really know how to make them. But it will vastly improve the quality of your life.

Just stop buying these expensive sandwiches.

ufo• 3 years ago

What's your favorite such sandwich?

bluedino3• 3 years ago

Peanut better and jelly

thomasjb• 3 years ago

Cheese and chorizo, with mayo, or a nutella sandwich. I don't get the point about not requiring refrigeration, aren't most sandwiches OK for a couple days out of the fridge?

On my travels, a bag of chocolate brioches has always been good

SoftTalker• 3 years ago

This is why I just bring along a few protein bars when I travel. $15 for a shitty airport sandwich? Fuhgedaboudit!

beej71• 3 years ago

"Charge what the market will bear."

bastard_op• 3 years ago

> "To protect the integrity of the fact-finding process, as well as agency deliberations, the Port Authority’s longstanding policy is to maintain the confidentiality of these types of Inspector General investigative reports."

What requires protection here, other than the absurd consumer price gouging among a captive audience that occurs in EVERY airport across the country and those that let it occur? They are absolutely right in the article, this should be something easy to be transparent about, and shouldn't be a secret process run by lobbying restaurant companies, city management on the grift, and decrepit municipal process.

thebiss• 3 years ago

Exactly. Transparency protects integrity.

ncphil• 3 years ago

Because New York City is like deep space: fundamentally hostile to life, especially human life. Once people get past their sensory overloaded twenties (or luck into the kind of wealth that triggers syncophantic personalities to suck up to them), it becomes clear that everything you try to do in the City involves a fight (and I'm not just talking about the days when you get multiple parking tickets, or the late nights when the F Train seems like it's never coming, or the kid behind the Deli counter gives you a sour look when you're counting out singles to pay for that double-digit sandwich on Seventh Avenue). A titanic struggle for survival in a high rise hellscape. And everyone is on edge, ready to pop off at any moment because they've reached their limit of being beaten down.

OK. The real answer is that The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey that regulates vendors at its facilities is a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than Mos Eisley. Clearly George Lucas had experienced one too many visits to JFK. Or was it LaGuardia?

sclarisse• 3 years ago

Or was it LaGurdia?

The OTG managed hospitality experience at LGA is the worst crime against aviation in the last 21-and-a-half years. Try their $20 burger. I dare you.

JFK at least has ShakeShack.

mildweed• 3 years ago

LGA has ShakeShack now too

twelve40• 3 years ago

That's a feast! Laguardia happily shuts down at like 6 or so, after that if you have a connection you can look for food scraps on the floor or, you know, dive right into that intermittent fasting you always wanted to try.

sdze• 3 years ago

Or be an adult and bring your sandwich from home.

JPKab• 3 years ago

Former defense contractor here:

This has similar econ dynamics to defense contracts.

The market competition between companies is entirely limited to competing for the exclusive, government granted monopoly of winning the contract. This is known as rent seeking in economics terms.

Once rent seekers win, the expectation is that the agency who governs the contract actually does their job and prevents price gouging. This can sometimes be done well, but usually, it isn't. My experience is that most govt regulators are complacent, mediocre, low energy desk jockies who default to doing as little as possible. This structure of management is why the US DoDs JSF (aka f35) program is such an absurdly horrific example of massive cost overruns and under performance.

I have an econ background, and one did an internal presentation at Booz Allen about the pitfalls of BAHs rent seeking dynamics encouraging top engineers to get sucked out of real projects (causing them to under perform) to instead work full time on writing proposals in response to govt RFPs. After all that's how you get promoted at these companies because what they say they value isn't actually what they value.

4wsn• 3 years ago

My experience is that most govt regulators are complacent, mediocre, low energy desk jockies who default to doing as little as possible.

Yep. But the upside is that they're often the only thing standing between you and more or less infinite profit; and they're hardly an obstacle if you have the right set of keys.

ElfinTrousers• 3 years ago

Not everything in this article is outrageous. $27.85 to drink a Sam Adams would be...

...wait, they want _me_ to pay to drink a Sam Adams? Sorry, my misunderstanding. No deal.

IndoorPatio• 3 years ago

Capitalism.

This is the price that generates the highest profit to those responsible for setting the price.

nayuki• 3 years ago

Keep in mind that Profit = (Sale price − Production cost) × Quantity sold.

drewcoo• 3 years ago

Because, and this is obvious from the sign in the photo, they value us.

Otherwise, the sandwiches would clearly cost more.

tomcam• 3 years ago

I never buy those sandwiches but if I were tempted I’d consider that for the price of two of those I could buy a 6.1” screen Android smartphone at Kroger’s, download some videos, and watch them instead of eating.

Scoundreller8• 3 years ago

Only possible because NYC airports finally have free wifi as of 2018:

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/new-york-airports-free-unli...

hammyhavoc• 3 years ago

Because that's what the market will stand. Simple as that.

prottog3• 3 years ago

Market failure is a thing, and it seems like in this case there may be a monopoly or oligopoly among the concessionaires, enabled by the corruption of the Port Authority.

casenmgreen• 3 years ago

I remember being in one of the NYC airports and needing a plug socket adapter for my laptop, for the flight.

On Alibaba, 50 cents.

On Amazon, maybe 1.5 USD.

In the airport, 35 USD. This was back in about 2015.

I did not buy it, and got by as best I could.

Such extraordinary prices materially impact the experience of traveling. To my eye, they seem shortsighted.

I also finally realised some years ago all the "duty free" shops are a giant con.

Yes, they are duty free - but they're all charging about twice the high-street price.

I never buy in airports, which can inconvenient, and it is always unpleasant to witness when I travel. If I were running an airport, I would look to make the experience of travelers as pleasant as possible, rather than actually making it unpleasant.

ornornor11• 3 years ago

Yes, they are duty free - but they're all charging about twice the high-street price.

Same as ZERO COMMISSION EXCHANGE outfits that, yes, charge 0% commission on the receipt but have jacked up all exchange rates by 10% instead…

oriettaxx8• 3 years ago

and what about the planned maze to reach your gate? planned so you are forced to pass in front as many shops as possible? The gate may be 50 meters away if you turn left, but the sign says you have to turn right... and it will become 200 meters and many shops

then, even worse, the fact that they "announce" your gate only 30 minutes before embarking! .... they do not want you to sit in a chair if front of your gate.. absolutely not! they want you to hang around and spend.

but, the worst: when they heat the water in the toilets so you cannot drink it! In Greece they even put a fake "not potable" sign, so you sure buy the world's higher overpriced bottle of water.

ZephyrBlu• 3 years ago

I travelled recently and when I got some foreign cash I noticed this. I was thinking, well if the fee is 0% you're clearly giving me a shit exchange rate and making your money there.

It seems bizarre to shuffle around the cost structure like that, but I guess it's a marketing thing that works because most people don't know any better?

lucb1e2• 3 years ago

Zero commission indeed sounds fishy, but what if there is a commission?

Inexperienced (euro-pampered) me went to a money exchange place that charged a fee because I know it costs money for them to have random icelandic kronar on hand so that's fair, then they don't need hidden fees right? I also knew the bank from name, it's a household name in my country.

Later at home I checked and I paid out of my ass for the exchange rate, never mind the fee on top...

I thought I was being clever by doing it at departure where you can compare and say no. At the destination airport, you have no choice but to exchange, everyone will need the local currency to pay for things and so I thought it's better to be prepared than potentially be paying the prices of the desperate. Yeah. No.

(A few hours of air time later, I learned that in Iceland you just pay by bank card for everything at iirc 0.3% fee and you don't need to exchange no cash.)

largepeepee• 3 years ago

Depends on the country as well, some country airports with high item tax make it worth buying at the airport.

Take the vice tax for example, most Islamic countries probably at alcohol cheaper at their airports.

Same goes with countries that have items with pricing power, I always get certain gifts at Japanese airports since the price it usually cheaper with tax free comparative to the rest of the country.

US airports though... Never worth it. Overpriced af

Ekaros4• 3 years ago

Went to Dubai, I don't do drugs, but prices seemed not horrible.

Then I checked if I would spend my local money for some candy, but I noped right out. On principle I weren't going to pay those prices.

elicash2• 3 years ago

It's been years now since I checked, but I remember a Best Buy airport vending machine having the same price as their stores.

nobody99998• 3 years ago

It's been years now since I checked, but I remember a Best Buy airport vending machine having the same price as their stores.

It's been years now since I checked, but I remember needing (within hours) a specific ethernet card (for a box running Solaris x86 -- back in the late '90s/early noughties driver support for Solaris was quite limited) and went to a BestBuy store as they had it in stock near me.

I checked later on and found that the price in the store was 30% over MSRP.

As such, the fact that the price was the same at an airport vending machine vis-a-vis an actual store doesn't surprise me that much.

Which is why, unless I'm in a situation like I described above, I stay far, far away from BestBuy.

Obviously, this is anecdotal, so I imagine YMMV.

conductr• 3 years ago

If I were running an airport, I would look to make the experience of travelers as pleasant as possible, rather than actually making it unpleasant.

You’d also need to find a revenue source to maintain the airport and pay salaries which is kind of important

actionablefiber• 3 years ago

I think another point is that thanks to TSA measures it will pretty much always be unpleasant, so you can make money squeezing people with layovers who don't want to, or don't have time to, go through security an extra time.

If you have a layover in a train station, e.g. with Amtrak, you can just leave the train station and go to a nearby shop if you need something.

xyzelement2• 3 years ago

You may have noticed in general that convenience costs you money. A charger which is in China and you will get in a month is indeed worth 50 cents because all that's worth to you.

A charger right this second, at the exact location (airport, past security) is obviously going to cost more.

Both because you are being charged a convenience premium, and because chances are nobody would bother setting up vending for 50 cents (just think about hiring cleared employees, supplying your store on that side of security, rental of that very limited space)

In general, I find myself much less outraged at what things cost once I became versed in market dynamics.

If you are a businessman who forgot his charger in the hotel and your flight got delayed, you are thrilled to pay $35 for it (vs not having it at all since nobody would bother selling it)

lucb1e2• 3 years ago

A charger right this second, at the exact location (airport, past security) is obviously going to cost more.

I think the point they're making is that it's curious that "a charger right this second, at this exact supermarket" is nowhere near 33 usd in 2015 prices. It's specifically airports, not about waiting for 3 weeks (or even 3 hours) of shipping.

kevviiinn6• 3 years ago

When I was younger and dumber I made the mistake of buying some halfway decent ear buds for $95. Huge ripoff but I rode those things for years until they stopped putting out sound to repent for my mistake. Never again

grishka2• 3 years ago

To my eye, they seem shortsighted.

These prices work in airports because there are little to no repeat customers, AND there is no competition to drive the prices down.

Symbiote4• 3 years ago

On Alibaba, 50 cents.
On Amazon, maybe 1.5 USD.

There's a decent chance neither of these pass the minimum safety requirements. It would be fairer to compare with a socket adapter from a supermarket.

e.g. Tesco, £4.50 for two, vs. Heathrow Airport £11 for two.

awinter-py• 3 years ago

Fascinating comparison to health pricing -- CMS has been trying for years to get hospitals to disclose their own prices (not even the methodology/formula deal from port authority), and they just haven't

People spill a lot of ink about whether regulators should force industries to be markets. Feels like we don't focus enough on the downstream case where regulators try to impose markets and fail

riffic• 3 years ago

Corruption, plainly put in New York parlance, "f you, that's why."

Algemarin2• 3 years ago

Why does a plastic-wrapped turkey sandwich cost $15

Because people keep paying for them.

The fault of price gouging lies firmly with consumers. If consumers are willing to tolerate ridiculous prices, then guess what, vendors are going to keep charging ever-higher ridiculous prices. Why in the world would they not?

If no one, or at least much fewer, people were willing to shell out $15 for a sandwich, then that sandwich would not cost $15.

If you're going to be hungry, bring food with you to the airport. If you don't want to deal with being hassled while going through security about it, then eat it before you go through security. It's very simple.

Sure there are always going to be exceptions--flight delays, you're running late, your kids' blood sugar is dipping, etc, but if you adhere to this very basic principle more often than not, sandwich prices will go down.

prottog3• 3 years ago

I agree with all of your points, but in cases of monopoly or oligopoly you can't place all of the blame on the consumer. It seems like a simple way for this problem to fix itself is for the Port Authority to allow more competition among concessionaires in the terminals; the article doesn't make it clear how much competition there really is.

As noted elsewhere in this thread, the Port Authority is one of the most corrupt government organizations you could find, so it would be unsurprising if it ended up being that there were two or three parent companies behind all the concessionaires.

bluedino3• 3 years ago

They are $4 in the vending machine at the office

seb12042• 3 years ago

Make it a home for even less I guess

ornornor11• 3 years ago

FWIW most airports I’ve visited have a staff canteen that’s actually open to everyone, albeit hidden.

If you ask airport staff, they’ll know where it is.

There aren’t a ton of options there and it’s often in the basement but you can choose between a few options and get a decent meal (considering) without getting fleeced.

That’s where ground staff, baggage handlers, etc eat every work day.

Algemarin2• 3 years ago

FWIW most airports I’ve visited have a staff canteen that’s actually open to everyone, albeit hidden.

Could you please list which airports you've been to have this, and where it is located in them?

It's not that I doubt airports have staff canteens, it's more that I have trouble believing anyone can just waltz into them. And a casual web search brings up only results about one airport actually having one open to the public.

ornornor11• 3 years ago

I’ve avoided flying like the plague for several years now.

But I don’t remember having trouble doing this in Europe or Canada.

It’s not publicly advertised because airports prefer you go to the overpriced airside concessions they can charge obscene rents for, and airport workers just know where it is; they don’t look it up.

Next time you fly, ask a janitor or other airport employee (the ones in the shops don’t always know and/or eat at the concessions because they have discounts) and see for yourself. It was typically ground staff, janitors, security guards, baggage throwers, public transit employees eating there.

orf• 3 years ago

I’ve never ever heard of this. Seems like it would be a bit of a security nightmare?

ornornor11• 3 years ago

No, why? The restaurant isn’t airside.

rippercushions• 3 years ago

If you're ever in Singapore, the staff canteens are pretty epic:

https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/74945/is-there-a-...

ornornor11• 3 years ago

That’s what I’m talking about :)

yusufnb• 3 years ago

That's capitalism. The optimization function works towards maximizing profit over value.

For a $2 sandwich, I would need to sell 100 at $3 to make a $100 profit and just 10 at $12 to make the same.

starbugs• 3 years ago

That only works if there isn't any competition.

taeric• 3 years ago

Is a silly question if we don't know inventory levels and turnover. At face value, the answer is trivially because that is the best price for the seller to use that they have found.

Lower could maybe sell more, but could also just clear the same inventory faster. Such that you need more information to answer.

Could they be gouging customers? I mean, maybe? Gouging usually requires duress on the buyer, though. So probably not.

crazygringo2• 3 years ago

This is a perfect example of an airport trying to have their cake and eat it too, and it's kind of diabolically clever.

On the one hand, airports need to make money, and with people buying cheap airline tickets, airports have found a solution by turning themselves halfway into malls, and charging businesses extremely high levels of rent, which the airport justifies because it's a captive audience that can't go anywhere else. Most of the $15 sandwich is ultimately going to the airport as rent, not to the CIBO food vendor as profit.

But at the same time, there's public outcry over the absurd pricing, so the airport has to mollify lawmakers by insisting it'll come up with a policy where they won't charge more than 10% for what would be comparable in Midtown. The airport is trying to blame those greedy vendors! But this is a trick. Who could ever define that? Sure you can compare Starbucks with Starbucks... but you can't compare a CIBO sandwich because it doesn't exist outside of airports, which is by design. That's the whole point, that easy comparables don't exist, and when a journalist tries to use a FOIA request to get at the comparables, they're stonewalled.

The airport is trying to insist it's preventing jacked-up prices, when in reality it's the airport charging rent that generates those jacked-up prices in the first place, and it tries to pretend like it plays no part. Evil, but clever.

simonebrunozzi• 3 years ago

You are spot on and correct. Airports make about 2/3rds of their money with rent, and only 1/3rd with flights.

andsoitis• 3 years ago

Where is that information from?

danenania• 3 years ago

Aren’t airports also heavily subsidized? How much does that account for?

There’s a special place in hell for the executives of taxpayer subsidized services that turn around and gouge their customers.

RC_ITR• 3 years ago

But at the same time, there's public outcry over the absurd pricing, so the airport has to mollify lawmakers by insisting it'll come up with a policy where they won't charge more than 10% for what would be comparable in Midtown.

My related take in this is that airports are expensive to maintain because you waste a ton of space on vendors and seating areas. If airports were just shacks next to a runway, they’d be much cheaper to run.

So you can’t really charge people for sitting/waiting (though the private clubs sort of do just that). Then you charge people for the other purpose (rent on vendors) and that pays for everything.

But you can’t tell your customers “it’s actually really expensive to build these giant buildings to just hold CIBOs and Dufry” since they won’t believe you (or worse call for smaller more efficient airports to be built with fewer services).

So you just sort of play this very bizarre merchandising game.

anyonecancode• 3 years ago

If airports were just shacks next to a runway, they’d be much cheaper to run.

Flew Ryan air once to, I think it was some airport nearish to Venice, Italy. And it was pretty much a shack next to the runway. Walk down the steps off the plane into a small building, notice a conveyor belt. Walk through the next door, pick your luggage off the same conveyor belt. Walk through the next door, you're at the bus stop.

odiroot2• 3 years ago

My related take in this is that airports are expensive to maintain because you waste a ton of space on vendors and seating areas. If airports were just shacks next to a runway, they’d be much cheaper to run.

That was literally Berlin airport, before it sadly closed.

Ekaros4• 3 years ago

Airports are pretty expensive. To run and build. Managing and up keeping massive land area isn't cheap. And the buildings themselves are also big and have quite a lot of staff and specialised stuff going around.

kevviiinn6• 3 years ago

How much profit do airports report?

systemtest• 3 years ago

Your average international airport staffs tens of thousands of people.

ClumsyPilot3• 3 years ago

In UK we have a very clever system - The taxpayer builds all the airports. We wait and see which ones turn out to have large demand and reliable revenues.

Then we privatise large international airports..

Meanwhile the smaller loss-making airports stay in public ownership because no-one wants to buy them.

brycelarkin• 3 years ago

Do cheap tickets actually impact airport revenue? My understanding is that airlines pay a set price per takeoff and landing. So airports should generate constant revenue regardless of fluctuation in ticket prices.

tomrod• 3 years ago

Second order effects of higher airline fees would include airlines running less flights as people choose alternative options when facing higher passthrough pricing (tax by another name). This impacts airport profits.

lozenge• 3 years ago

Is that per seat or per plane? Seats have been getting packed closer together.

Symbiote4• 3 years ago

Yes, at least in Europe. Ryanair is infamous for pushing a very hard bargain with airports, but it's common with all the low-cost airlines.

Part of the airport's willingness to give Ryanair a discount is the expectation of full planes with a lot of seats, so there are more people to sell to.

e.g. [1] Table 6, Warsaw Modlin airport charges Ryanair 6 PLN (€1.30) per passenger, vs the normal 40 PLN (€8.50). That's obviously significant when they sell flights for €15 or so.

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317710545_Internati...

lmz• 3 years ago

I think there are still savings to be made by low cost airlines in e.g. boarding passengers from the gate by bus to a remote location vs using a jetbridge.

MAGZine• 3 years ago

any airport that actually cares will adapt a policy like PDX's street pricing, and then actually furnish the airport with places that exist out in the real world--not just these weird airport-only chains (who tf is wolfgang puck) or one-offs (e.g. "TrendyNeighbourhood Burger," "TouristDistrict Tavern")

I guess a really nice, mall-like airport with amenities you don't want to use (because they're too expensive) is still slightly better than a smaller airport whose amenities you don't use (because they don't exist). At least you have an option, though it doesn't stop it from being annoying.

Sidenote, maybe LAX needs $15 sandos if it means they can afford to unshit their airport.

grishka2• 3 years ago

actually furnish the airport with places that exist out in the real world

I clearly remember a Burger King in one of Moscow airports, probably DME. It is a regular Burger King serving everything one would expect, except the 1.5x prices.

inferiorhuman• 3 years ago

  who tf is wolfgang puck

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Puck

Just a guy who's got three Michelin starred restaurants.

reisse• 3 years ago

Haven't seen airport-only chains in Europe, do they exist here?

In Stockholm (Arlanda) there is standard McDonald's (among other chains) in the terminal.

george_808• 3 years ago

Unfortunately, LAX already does have $15 pre-packaged turkey sandwiches in Terminal 5. Thankfully, there’s a chick-fil-A and Einstein’s in brand-new Terminal 1 with reasonable prices. This motivates me to fly southwest more often.

zrail• 3 years ago

My spouse and I met in Portland and lived there for almost a decade. Every once in awhile we get a craving for Burgerville and haha-only-serious joke about flying to PDX and back with just enough time to eat at the airside location.

Thus far we have suppressed the urge.

amadeuspagel• 3 years ago

How is a system that enables cheap airline tickets for everyone by selling expensive sandwiches to people who can afford it evil?

mcv8• 3 years ago

It's luring people into flying more than they should (which is polluting), and then trying to make up the difference by trapping those people in an area where they can only by ridiculously overpriced stuff.

The right thing to do would be more expensive airline tickets that account for the total cost of flying (including the pollution they cause) and then charging an honest price for the sandwiches.

I mean, this sandwich costs almost as much as some airline tickets.

BeFlatXIII• 3 years ago

It's nickel-and-diming.

phendrenad2• 3 years ago

I don't think this goes deep enough. The company ultimately putting the squeeze on is the company that makes the in-flight snack food. This company has raised prices consistently since 1960, and these price hikes are being passed on to consumers, by way of airlines demanding that airports take a smaller cut. If you want to look for blame, look there.

hgsgm5• 3 years ago

How can that be possible? The in flight snack company is in a highly competitive business -- airlines could buy store brand private label snacks.

grogenaut• 3 years ago

Show me an industry that hasn't raised prices since the 60s.

illiarian2• 3 years ago

ultimately going to the airport as rent, not to the CIBO food vendor as profit.

In food services in general there's this weird thing that the ultimate price on the product doesn't matter. The food-selling place will have paper-thin margins regardless. It will either be rent, or equipment and cutlery, or the need for highly trained and specialised staff, or... (and often all of those, and more, coupled together).

LegitShady3• 3 years ago

this hasn't been my experience at all - usually the cost of food is 1/3 overhead (rent, staff), 1/3 ingredients, and 1/3 profit.

At least in places that last.

88913527• 3 years ago

If high sandwich prices are a tax to cover the operation costs, it's certainly an odd one. Why should people who pack their own travel food be subsidized by those who are not?

TheSoftwareGuy• 3 years ago

Seems like a convenience tax to me. People who are willing to pay the high prices at the airport, are probably less price sensitive, (read: more wealthy). So yeah, let’s let the rich subsidize the poor

raydev• 3 years ago

with people buying cheap airline tickets, airports have found a solution by turning themselves halfway into malls

This is entirely overlooking the fact that you are a captive of the airport as long as the TSA screening process exists. At best, going through security is annoying and adds anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 hours of wait time, and at worst it is legitimately traumatizing.

Prices are high simply because people are punished for leaving on foot, and people are prohibited from bringing many goods through security.

crubier2• 3 years ago

Yeah, Airport security is not useless, I'm not against it, but at the same time it's undeniable that the airport shopping industry can thank terrorist groups for justifying the existence of this absolutely inefficient system that keeps millions of people captive of their greediness..

lisper2• 3 years ago

people are prohibited from bringing many goods through security

That's true, but sandwiches are not among them.

jghn• 3 years ago

Even in the before times I didn't really leave airside. There was so rarely something worthwhile trekking to within the time I had available to me, that it wasn't worth it. Yes, the TSA security theater makes this worse, but I have very few layovers where *that* is the make or break reason I don't leave airside.

jliptzin• 3 years ago

I am looking forward to widely available personal EVTOL aircraft. Unless the TSA sometimes makes it into there and ruins that too

scarface745• 3 years ago

You are allowed to bring food in your carryon just not liquids.

And isn’t the “waiting two hours an exaggeration”?

I flew out of MCO (Orlando) around spring break and while it was hectic, it wasn’t that bad just looking at the line. Of course I fly enough that having Clear and TSA pre-check makes sense.

I flew out of Atlanta - the busiest airport in the US for years and it didn’t take me that long to get through TSA even without PreCheck

EGreg• 3 years ago

Best part is when TSA confiscates any liquids and then you are thirsty while waiting for the flights :)

Why not sell fresh squeezed juices right as people get out of the security?

saurik2• 3 years ago

They are a bit higher, sure; but there is still quite a bit of competition inside the airport: surely, one of those vendors would defect to get a ton of surplus business... unless they are illegally colluding; so, we should expect most of the floor in pricing is coming from some external shared pricing irregularity (aka, the sky-high rents).

vegetablepotpie• 3 years ago

But not all goods.

If you need something to eat in an airport, there’s a bunch of snack options you can bring in. It’s not a movie theater. I’ve brought in Nuts, sandwiches, home baked bread wrapped in tinfoil. TSA just doesn’t want you bringing in the liquids. Am I going to get a warm meal with a drink on the side? No. Will I be full? Yes. Will is save $15. Yes. Will it take some planning and prep work? Yes.

dsfyu404ed4• 3 years ago

Regulatory capture in one of the most literal senses.

closeparen• 3 years ago

It’s usually a big production to get from the terminal to the nearest building that’s not airport property. Especially with hand luggage. Even if you could waltz in and out, I don’t see it.

thaumasiotes• 3 years ago

The airport is trying to insist it's preventing jacked-up prices, when in reality it's the airport charging rent that generates those jacked-up prices in the first place, and it tries to pretend like it plays no part.

But that's correct. The rent charged by the airport has no impact on prices inside the airport. They are high because of the captive audience.

Store revenue within the airport is determined by customer willingness to pay. Willingness to pay does not take store rent into account; it is a function of prices and alternatives. So the stores set prices at the level that maximizes revenue, and the rent charged by the airport is a fight between the stores and the airport over who gets how much of the revenue. If you limited the amount of rent the airport could charge, the first-order effect would be that prices would stay exactly the same, the airport would get less money, every store would get more money, and customers would be completely unaffected.

If you wanted to return money to the customers, you'd need to increase the level of competition between stores.

ajmurmann2• 3 years ago

This seems true, since McDonald's prices inside an airport seem to be either three danger as outside or just a little more. They for sure never reach the astronomical heights of other airport vendors.

legohead• 3 years ago

Sounds like basic capitalism to me. You have a captive audience, charge them until they refuse the price.

Same thing happens at stadiums, although not quite as bad as airports, but the prices - especially for the quality - are pretty ridiculous. I've only been to a few bars, but I also scoffed at the prices there as well.

jancsika• 3 years ago

Who could ever define that?

The Port Authority:

"based on the average of three lowest prices for Comparable Products at the approved Comparable Concession Locations"

Per this definition from the specification, they were required to go out see what prices "comparable concession locations" charge for a turkey san, take the three lowest prices from that search, add them together, then divide by 3.

There are parts of the SVG spec that aren't this well specified.

That's the whole point, that easy comparables don't exist, and when a journalist tries to use a FOIA request to get at the comparables, they're stonewalled.

If that were true there would have been no reason to stonewall. Just release the three prices and the names of the vendors used, and watch NYC argue endlessly over the details of "comparable" turkey san vendors.

But with the stonewalling this sounds a lot more like, "Let's just charge $14.99 and call it a day," and then forget about it-- because who in their right mind would ever do a Woodward&Bernstein on a goddamm' turkey san price at the airport?

And then Christopher Robbins over here is like, "JFK airport, fuck ya' life, that's who!"

Edit: clarifications

Aeolun2• 3 years ago

If that were true there would have been no reason to stonewall. Just release the three prices and the names of the vendors used

I think you’ll find that the list includes things like “Airport stand A”, “Airport stand B” and “Airport stand C”

Aeolun2• 3 years ago

If this were the case it should be easy for the vendor to say that $9 of that 15 is based on rent.

victor106• 3 years ago

Add to this the fact that TSA won’t even let you take a bottom water through.

Spooky23• 3 years ago

The companies that owns these concessionaires have a reputation for lobbying practices that are pretty “aggressive”. There’s a handful of companies (Delaware North, HMS, OTG, etc) that are in this business and if you know the business, it’s usually pretty easy to understand the scope/requirements.

It’s pretty easy for a journalist to get the RFP/extension/whatever. I’d guess that there are journalists figuring out the business now.

ClumsyPilot3• 3 years ago

The airport is trying to insist it's preventing jacked-up prices, when in reality it's the airport charging rent that generates those jacked-up prices in the first place, and it tries to pretend like it plays no part. Evil, but clever.

The same situation applies to the rest of the economy - people celebrate their house going up in value, without realising that your plumber and coffee will also go up in price, because the plumber's and the barista's rent has just gone up! Even if you never have to buy a house, rising house prices mean that every service around you becomes more expensive because they've got to pay rent.

Industry didn't just move out because western workers want too much money, they moved out because western landlords want too much money.

fuzzfactor2• 3 years ago

I would say another reason the sandwiches cost so much is because so many remain unsold.

You have to start with the assumption that things like this are only intended for the very well-heeled to begin with, particularly in this price range where the difference between about $2 and $20 is not actually significant to the buyer.

It is well-known that most travelers are not in this catagory, and plenty of millionaires will not ever spend close to $20 at the high end for something recognized as worth $2 at the low end. Even if they could do it without any financial pain.

Sometimes that's how they got to be millionaires anyway.

Anyway, you've got to have more than enough sandwiches for every one of the real high-rollers who might be passing through that day, you would never want to have less than enough.

Plus every now and then someone else will get hungry enough to bite.

There's no intention for there to be alternative choices which are more economical.

So a lot of the sandwiches are going to go to waste.

So they need to be able to afford to make enough to waste most of them.

Which could only result in spiraling costs.

Overpriced lower-quality outcomes follow greed in a self-fulfilling way when you do the math, but when all benefit is directed only to the greedy party, it does no-one any good since they are not capable of being fulfilled.

Apply this to so many other parts of the economy, and look what we have.

More greed and more waste to go with it, and ordinary workers can't afford what they once could.

onlyrealcuzzo• 3 years ago

IIUC, there's essentially a few vendors that own the vast majority of space in most airports, and the reason rents are so high, is because they outbid everyone (knowing that they can charge $15 for a bologna sandwich)- not because the asking rent starts high.

The problem is the business model - which could be considered price gauging - not the airport.

solatic• 3 years ago

airports need to make money

Let's start with this presumption: do they really? Are they privately held? Why? Were they built with private money or public money? Isn't the purpose of airports to facilitate access to the local economy, thus benefitting local businesses, and should thus be funded from general tax revenue?

Like so much in the US, payment is demanded for anything of remotely private benefit, even if the majority of the benefit is to the commons. Take TSA Pre-Check, or Global Entry as an example. In other countries, these programs (electronic entry) are the default for all citizens, provided for free, because they make airport operations more efficient as a whole, which means the airport can service more people, more efficiently. But in the US, it saves the individual a few minutes, so be prepared to pay a yearly fee for the privilege!

It's precisely for reasons like $15 turkey sandwiches that New York airports are to be avoided (i.e. as stopovers). Treating the traveling public as feudal serfs is practically the definition of mismanagement.

xnx• 3 years ago

$15 sandwich is better than no sandwich available

illiac786• 3 years ago

Isn't the airport tax fix per passenger and independent from ticket price? I remember flying discount airline and paying only the airport taxes (it was around 20-30€ in my y case)

That would decouple airport mall rent prices from falling airline ticket prices.

gymbeaux8• 3 years ago

Ah so that’s why the premade food at airport shops is so weird. I remember eating a sandwich I’ve never heard of before at EWR. It wasn’t that good and I remember the ingredients were unusual.

bogomipz• 3 years ago

"On the one hand, airports need to make money ..."

Commercial airports in the US are owned by a local, state or regional public entity.[1] They need to be self-sustaining and break even but they don't need to be profitable in the same sense as a private business.

Further, passengers at these airports pay a significant amount of "taxes and fees" on their fares that go to support operations at these airports [2]. These include a passenger facility fee, a segment tax(one per takeoff/landing), a Sept 11th Fee for security and Federal ticket tax(pays the FAA.)

[1] https://yourmileagemayvary.net/2022/08/14/who-owns-airports/

[2] https://www.farecompare.com/news/airline-ticket-taxes-and-fe...

qikInNdOutReply• 3 years ago

The airport opens 3 sandwich shops midtown with outstanding prices. Problem solved.

Not every shop out to do no buisness is money laundring. Some are also regulator laundring.

trafnar• 3 years ago

This article is not asking "Why would a store at the airport charge extra?" (pretty obvious), it's asking "Exactly how did these stores arrive at their prices given the pricing rules that are supposedly imposed on them by the government?"

hm-nah• 3 years ago

Why does a double mezcal at Slims Last Chance cost $24.50 before the tip?!

lifeisstillgood• 3 years ago

It's rent.

The airport knows how much foot traffic there is, how much spend per person and can therefore adjust rent to gouge everything except 10%.

But on a square foot revenue basis that's store is the best performing of whatever chain we talk about - and it has a guaranteed yearly revenue which makes nice for the bank loan and the volume deal for the suplliers and ...

it's a win win for everyone apart from the customer

jononomo2• 3 years ago

On my last trip, I noticed that a cup of coffee in an airport is now $4. And that's just for a paper cup with black coffee in it -- not any kind of special latte, etc.

spacemannoslen• 3 years ago

I can offer some insight onto this, as I used to be in close proximity to a friend who worked in the concession group at the LAX version monitoring this policy.

It was called the 18% price protection policy program where concessionaires had to quarterly list 3 comparable vendors for each item sold showing how their item offered was only less than 18% above that of those found within a 10 mile radius of the airport. In reality, it was too much asked of low skilled and low margin vendors with power to enforce not being exercised due to managements prioritization of more pressing matters.

In reality, there was little by way of enforcement, it was too much regulation to pass down to those vendors even, with that being only 1 of 5-10 policies an excel sheets they had to provide quarterly data on, entered manually. They vendors had so much turnover themselves and employees who didn't specialize in providing that sort of data, they would always fall behind with all the policies and regulation they had to comply with that enforcing it on them was hollow and without power. And when they did provide data, it was poorly formatted, required man hours to read and research and in the end might not even have been a valid "comparable" data that was provided, but, to verify their data provided would require manual audits of physically inspecting 10-100 individual comparables that were given that it was a nightmare, and thus, never got done. There wasn't enough staff at either the vendor nor the airport authority to properly see the implementation of the price protection policy.

The city could technically use its power to make it a priority, but, there were always much more urgent matters at same position that it was a on the back burner, it seemed.

listenallyall4• 3 years ago

What does "used to be in close proximity to a friend" mean? I mean your comment is pretty detailed, down to the formatting of Excel documents and the internal workings of the regulators. People have conversations with friends, but rarely to this degree of detail, kind of makes it sound like you're just making shit up. Or, that you yourself are the "friend."

bckygldstn• 3 years ago

I’ve had plenty of conversations like this with friends over a beer or coffee, incredulously diving into some bizarre aspect of their work or life!

iudqnolq• 3 years ago

This isn't the only reason someone might go into detail, but there's something called "infodumping". It's when autistic people like myself socialize by describing something we're interested in in depth. Some people have autistic friends.

Havoc• 3 years ago

Sounds like a bunch of bollocks. They clearly charge whatever the market will bear, which given captive audience is a lot.

DerekL3• 3 years ago

The title is incorrect. As the article states, there is more than one airport for New York City, so the phrase “the NYC airport” is misleading.

m3kw9• 3 years ago

It’s a monopoly in there or an ogligopoly. You are stuck inside and hungry, they will happily fleece you worse than most places on earth

spacemule• 3 years ago

It's pretty obvious why the one in the picture at the top is $14.99. It's from the kosher stand that has a small selection and higher prices because kosher meat is generally pretty expensive in America. Mind you, I wouldn't normally buy that sandwich for $15, but the last time I traveled through Newark, I gladly payed that much for something kosher to eat. It's about the same as I'd pay outside the airport for something similar if freshly made. I can't say much about the other products listed, as I'm not the target demographic.

andrewstuart• 3 years ago

Melbourne airport makes more money from car parking than anything.

oriettaxx8• 3 years ago

Ah, yes, another big scam is parking :)

In Venice, relatives often wait in the car on the side of the road. Meanwhile, at the airport, the town has declared (and pays traffic police for) a strange 'no stopping' rule on the roads leading to the airport.

SMAAART• 3 years ago

It's $29 in Manhattan https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq_FJyDMYoU/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY%...

t-3• 3 years ago

That's... Not even really unreasonable compared to restaurant prices. I've seen eggs and toast for $20 at a diner in Minneapolis, and that place had a line out the door with a 30 minute wait to get in. Wasn't even as good as the $5 or less Coney Island breakfast available pretty much everywhere in Metro Detroit.

jonplackett• 3 years ago

I noticed a massive change in cost the last time flying in the UK too.

Pret used to charge pretty much the same as a regular store. It would be the only place you could get a bottle of water for £1.

I flew over Easter and It’s all fine up massively. £3.50 for a bottle of water. Nearly £6 for a (very average) coffee.

Almost a doubling of prices. Especially great when the flight was delayed 3 hours - but we got out £3 voucher from easyJet…

atleastoptimal• 3 years ago

They would charge 400 dollars if they could. There is no principle to markets with artificial scarcity. They can do whatever they want when you're trapped there.

wolverine876• 3 years ago

I've seen these prices at many airports - I'd say every airport, IIRC. It's not new and it's not local to NY. It's not only in airports, but anywhere there is a captive audience, such as sporting events, museums, etc.

Can anyone name airports where these aren't standard prices?

genocidicbunny• 3 years ago

Portland International (PDX)

Many/most of the restaurants are ones that you could also find locations for outside the airport, and their prices are the same as outside the airport.

manual89• 3 years ago

When I was flying out of Narita Airport, the vending machines within were the exact same prices as those on any street corner in Japan: very reasonable.

kingcharles• 3 years ago

As a serial FOIA litigator you have to sue. It's not too hard.

Having battled jails and prisons on similarly vague local comparison pricing for their commissary items, my bet is that none of the comparison procedures are being followed. They probably just expected the stores to be good and regulate themselves. Which never happens.

aj7• 3 years ago

You pack your luggage, carryons, etc. So pack food.

throwaway4736• 3 years ago

OTG is fucking garbage. There’s more to it than that, but not much.

nemo44x• 3 years ago

I figured it’s because so many travelers are business travelers that expense things like meals. The prices are very high but not enough to raise the alarm on whoever approves expense reports.

pcurve• 3 years ago

You're partly right, but most companies have daily limits on meal expenses. Something like $20 for lunch and $40 for dinner. If I can help it, I'm not burning my daily limit on a disgusting overpriced sandwich!

bradleyjg• 3 years ago

They rebuilt LGA.

Now it’s pretty but it takes four times longer to get to your gate as you have to walk past all the stores whose rent is paying off the bonds used to renovate.

I preferred ugly.

larodi• 3 years ago

Because u can’t help urself out of travel anxiety and event buy it to calm down.

bagacrap2• 3 years ago

As frustrating as it is to be stonewalled like this, I sincerely hope they don't waste taxpayer dollars by suing over it.

Airport food is bad and expensive, get over it. Pack your own lunch if you care, especially if what you're going to eat is a prepackaged sandwich anyway.

wombatpm• 3 years ago

I hope they do. It’s the only way to hold government accountable. If they don’t follow the rules, they need to be sued. That will force the governors in two states to call up the Port Authority and say knock this shit off. Unless someone makes a stink, nothing will be fixed.

nla• 3 years ago

Because they are corrupt.

tbrock• 3 years ago

The bacon egg and cheese at Beecher’s handmade cheese in the same terminal is $16.50 for some decent bread with a microwave egg. It’s ridiculous, shake shack has a breakfast bacon egg and cheese in the $5-6 range right down the way.

Overtonwindow2• 3 years ago

You're captive to the airport. If you want something to eat you have to pay airport prices, there's not a lot you can do about it other than bringing in your own food. Airport vendors know this so they charge accordingly.

hnburnsy• 3 years ago

Maybe others have mentioned it but airports typically get 10-18% of sales (after the minimum rent guarantee is met), so it is in their interest for prices to be high.

scarface745• 3 years ago

The answer is simple:

If you fly a lot, you’re probably a business traveler spending “someone else’s money” and you’re going to get reimbursed.

If you fly a little like most people, you’re probably in “vacation mode” and aren’t really thinking as carefully about money.

If you’re a really frequent traveler, you might even have airport lounge access and taking advantage of free “well liquor” and food.

Of course the whole captive audience thing is true. But as my southern momma would say “we got food at home”. Eat before you leave home if you are concerned.

devy• 3 years ago

In my anecdotal experience Indianapolis International Airport (IND) is the best in terms of reasonable food pricing / affordability as well as comfortability in waiting area / seats and newness of the facility.

https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/indy-airport-...

Even though IND doesn't nearly have the traffic like 3 NYC airports, it's still 24/7 airport and the self-served Farm Fridge food kiosk was super great in terms of prepackaged meals and pricing (half of the selections were under $10 - I flew to IND last month.) The Soda machine also charges $2 / bottle of Coca-Cola like other non-airport retailers instead of price gauging.

komain7• 3 years ago

Because the world has too many losers to support anymore. A simple chicken sandwich has to pass through 16 different losers who all need their little bit. They can't make their own money so they take everybody else's money. Adding another 5 cents won't hurt anything, says the loser. Then loser starts complaining because sandwich cost $15 when they have to rebuy it at their ride.

alberth• 3 years ago

I’m surprised the article never mentioned how airports are just commercial real estate companies (like a mall).

They are literally in the business of just leasing space to other companies.

oriettaxx8• 3 years ago

exactly!

with all the typical tricks

77pt77• 3 years ago

$15 for NYC.

Sounds like a bargain.

robomartin• 3 years ago

For that matter, it's about time abusive pricing policies get some scrutiny at amusement parks, theaters, sports venues, convention centers, etc.

It is hard to understand why politicians or the very agencies we pay to protect consumers do nothing about this. A $5 bottle of water is abusive. Oh, yes, and in a lot of these venues you are not allowed to bring in your own food and drinks.

Let's thrown in a place like Disney World in FL scanning everyone's ID's and fingerprints on entry. Not the same thing, of course, yet one of those "What the fuck???" things that you never hear media, politicians or consumer protection groups/agencies talk about. Ever.

Robotbeat• 3 years ago

Why does housing cost 10x as much in San Francisco than in my current city when I bought 9 years ago? 2-3x price inflation at an airport makes a lot more sense than that.

rr808• 3 years ago

Prices in Manhattan are so expensive now, honestly $15 doesn't sound crazy to me.

aczerepinski• 3 years ago

The Boston airport has fair pricing. It can be done, keep fighting!

predogger• 3 years ago

I just can't eat that sandwich normally so $1 is too much.

jannes• 3 years ago

$13.50 plus 10 percent = $14.99

That math doesn't check out at all.

darod• 3 years ago

thankfully TSA can only take your liquids and not your solids at the checkpoint, so you can theoretically buy/make a sandwich before you go to the airport.

stackedinserter• 3 years ago

All airports do this. A bottle of water is 3.75 at Dominican Republic airports, presumably not controlled by NYC port authority.

Hippocrates3• 3 years ago

My favorite pre-flight ritual as of recent is to go out and get a bomb ass sandwich and pack it for the flight. I’m talkin’ gourmet Italian, fresh mozz, crunchy bread with the waxed paper wrapping. Sometimes I’ll get it dry and pack the oil+vinegar in a small baggie.

throwawaaarrgh2• 3 years ago

In addition to this: you can't drink your own alcohol on the flight, but I know of no FAA regulation that says you can't bring a bunch of mini bottles, simple syrup, cherry, and bitters and make yourself an old fashioned at the gate while you wait to board. Pack a rocks glass and a tiny shaker and everyone will think you are simultaneously the weirdest and most baller person in Group 5. And technically ice isn't a liquid.

Hippocrates3• 3 years ago

Heh that’s a good call. I also take the “rule” about not bringing your own alcohol on the plane with a pile of salt. In practice, it’s easy to dump nips into a soda during a flight without being caught.

throwawaaarrgh2• 3 years ago

You are allowed to bring a turkey sandwich through security. No need to spend $15 there.

If you bring a jar of peanut butter they won't let you bring it through, but if you spread it (all) on bread, they will.

yieldcrv• 3 years ago

Lounges fix this

xbmcuser• 3 years ago

This is how most large corporation/Companies in the US work. Identify a market capture it then put shutters up so that you have no competition in that space. That is how free market capitalism works and results in use your capital or tech to capture the market then jack the prices.

725686• 3 years ago

Seinfeld uncovered this many years ago. The huge airport, airline complex is just a scam to sell you the tuna sandwich:

https://youtu.be/kxGzClxVx9Q

pugworthy• 3 years ago

Logic and reason does not exist in the cheap/convenience/self serve food world. That or a database is configured wrong.

At work, we have self-checkout kiosks for food. There is a "Triple Meat" breakfast burrito with eggs, potatoes, onions, bacon, ham, and sausage. It weighs 10 ounces. There is a "Vegetarian" breakfast burrito, with eggs, potatoes, and onions. It weighs 7 ounces.

The vegetarian one costs OVER $1 MORE than the heavier, and more ingredient meat version.

Go figure, but my personal theory is bad data, not bad thinking.

Scoundreller8• 3 years ago

I think in protest I'm going to start packing 100g Herring fish tins and eating those wherever I can.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Brunswick-Boneless-Kippered-Herri...

Can I bring Durian fruit past security?

danielovichdk• 3 years ago

As a European and coming to America this year. SF and NYC, the prices has explooooded in the cities.

And the amount of homeless people are also on an upper trajectory.

Doesn't feel good for the land of the free.

RickJWagner• 3 years ago

$15 for a turkey sandwich?

Disney: Hold my beer.

ongytenes2• 3 years ago

Like theaters charging outrageous prices. Comes down to control. They block people from bringing their own snacks so they got people over the barrel. If your sugar is dropping, and you need a bite, you've got to pay the price. It is a type of extortion.

ongytenes2• 3 years ago

Same as how theatres were able to charge outrageous prices. Comes down to control. If people are unable to bring their own food, and their sugar drops, then they got to pay the price. It is a type of extortion.

rmk• 3 years ago

Corruption. There is no need to write further.

AlwaysRock• 3 years ago

Frankly if you are eating anywhere other than McDonalds at an airport you are paying fine dining prices for the absolute bottom tier food. It's so frustrating when a day of flying means either carting along meals for a day or spending $80-$120 for two people.

greghinch• 3 years ago

American living in the UK. Go back to visit family in Northern California ever year or two. On the way out (Heathrow) we can get a Pret or similar for more or less the same price as in central London, say £5-7 per person for a medium sized meal. And there are well over a dozen options of similar restaurants.

On the way back (SFO), it’s basically Burger King or one of the airport sandwich shops, and $20+ per person.

I don’t know the details of why it’s one way or the other, but clearly it doesn’t have to be like this!

Why does a plastic-wrapped turkey sandwich cost $15 at the NYC airport?

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