The obsessive pleasures of mechanical-keyboard tinkerers

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-obsessive-pleasures-of-mechanical-keyboard-tinkerers

by trauco • 4 years ago

150 188 4 years ago

KVFinn• 4 years ago

I still regret getting rid of whatever keyboard I had with my Intel 286 PC, probably a Model M from what I read about the times.

Typing was an experience on that thing, like energy flowing through the keyboard into your body, the physicality of the springs was so strong. But strangely I remember typing extremely fast on it, even though it must have needed so much extra force.

I have a decent store bought mechanical keyboard now and it's nice but still very different.

tuatoru• 4 years ago

You can still buy them (updated with USB interface and Super key (Windows key)) from Unicomp.[1]

1. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

mamcx• 4 years ago

Similar, the original MS Ergo Keyboard. In my nostalgic mind with no way to confirm, I think was the best of all.

Overtonwindow• 4 years ago

I have this IBM PS two mechanical keyboard and I don’t know why but… I don’t really care much for the mechanical keyboards. My first laptop was made by micron, and the keys were very soft and sponge and quiet. The Macbooks from 2012 have a great keyboard.

jasinjames2• 4 years ago

My first computer was a Macboon Pro from 2012. I replaced it (well, the aluminum unibody, ship of theseus-style) with a 2017 Macbook Pro when I started college. Now I've got so much muscle memory with the Apple layout that at work I use a USB apple keyboard with my ubuntu workstation. My coworkers are almost all mechanical keyboard junkies, and they never let me hear the end of it.

Sunspark4• 4 years ago

Why don't you get one of the mechanical keyboards in an Apple layout?

quercusa• 4 years ago

The IBM Selectric was a fascinating piece of equipment. Solid as a rock and the little dancing ball was just mesmerizing.

mrtedbear3• 4 years ago

The keyboard rabbit-hole gets pretty deep. I started off wanting a nicer typing experience, and ended up realising so much about the traditional keyboard designs didn't make sense to me (here's someone nicely summing up the reasons why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrska7UU7BE).

For me the optimum is a split 34-key keyboard (the open-source Ferris Sweep https://github.com/davidphilipbarr/Sweep) with a custom keymap firmware (QMK).

Going even deeper, you can generate a PCB layout that's personalised to the shape of your hands: https://github.com/ergogen/ergogen

plutonorm2• 4 years ago

yeah, dipping your toe in this hobby is like dipping your toe into a triple A MMORPG. Make sure you are prepared for the toll it may take on your productive years.

mrtedbear3• 4 years ago

100%. Going in I had no idea how all-consuming it would get.

bergenty• 4 years ago

I don’t get it though. What’s the payoff, marginally better comfort and typing speed or is it like having collectibles to own and show off? Personally, sure a mechanical keyboard is a little more satisfying to type on but who really cares.

nocman2• 4 years ago

As I said in another part of this thread, I don't have any problem "dipping my toe in". It isn't difficult at all to enjoy using a good mechanical keyboard without becoming obsessed with it. My friends who use mechanical keyboards also don't have any problem with that kind of obsession. I guess it depends on the person.

Eji17002• 4 years ago

The keyboard hobby has led me to realize a few major things-

1. The capslock key should not be where it is. In no sane layout should such an easy to reach key serve such a niche purpose.

2. The spacebar is a massive waste of space. I LOVE split space layouts (typing on a mercutio right now). Having all 3 "spaces" act as space on tap helps, and makes it easy to hold for modifiers.

3. Having the numpad/arrow keys right under my right hand (arrows on jkli, numpad basically on jkl = 456, functions in the same layout) is SO much faster than having to move your hand to get to those kinds of keys. The navigation keys being at my fingertips is ESPECIALLY useful as a coder where using things like home/end/pgup/pgdown can really help you move through your code faster.

I'm now at my end game (mercutio 40 on my "entertainment" machine, a crkbd at work (soon be be a cornish zen), and a discipline 60 for my gaming machine....seriously rougelikes are the only reason it's not all 40's), and it's been a hell of a path. I really hope the market expands a bit more because there's a lot of nice things when people start getting into the hobby, but it's a rough hobby to get into given how expensive it can get.

cam_l2• 4 years ago

I fully agree with 1 & 2 at least. So I remapped capslock with delete and space with enter. (Numpad is too thoroughly embedded in my head to move it.)

Easier/lazier than building a new KB.

Though it does present some issues when using other machines. And people thoroughly freak out if they jump on mine.

anotherevan• 4 years ago

I think the capslock position is a holdover from manual typewriters. Pressing the shift or capslock keys actually lifted up a fair chunk of the internal metal of the thing, so it was fairly strenuous. You also use to do all-caps for headings and such much more often.

I learned to touch type on manual typewriters in school. I was the only boy in the class as it was geared towards secretarial work - but I knew I was going to have a career on computers so thought it was worthwhile.

pca0061323• 4 years ago

Yeah, I remapped my the caplock to escape, best change ever.

arecurrence• 4 years ago

Most devs that had apple’s touch bar keyboard remapped caps to escape. I enjoyed that change so much that I did it everywhere. Voila, a useful key within easier reach… especially for vim.

imron• 4 years ago

The navigation keys being at my fingertips is ESPECIALLY useful as a coder where using things like home/end/pgup/pgdown can really help you move through your code faster.

This is why Vim key bindings are the first thing I install for any editor.

colineartheta• 4 years ago

Just going to throw this out there because I haven’t seen it referenced much on HN, but as someone who spends 8+ hours a day in one flavor of AutoCAD or another I am constantly cycling between caps lock and standard. Nearly every modern plan set produced is done in all caps, and with nearly all standard office communication being done through email or slack switching from one to the other easily is really quite important to me and my colleagues.

CTDOCodebases7• 4 years ago

It’s a rough “hobby” because all the options make it possible to build the perfect board but it takes a lot of trial and error to figure out what you really like.

I say “hobby” because I just started wanting a nice keyboard at the start and to be honest I find building boards boring.

_benj• 4 years ago

I’m curious about how you use spaces and arrows. Is it that you have space work on tab but on hold it becomes fn1 or allows you to jump to a different layer?

I don’t have split spaces but it had never occurred to me to use space as a mod!

maigret• 4 years ago

Caps lock is where and how it is because its importance for typewriters. When you can’t change fonts, caps are important to realize hierarchy. I agree the contexts have now changed.

nocman2• 4 years ago

The keyboard rabbit-hole gets pretty deep.

Not for everyone. For years I have preferred keyboards with Cherry MX switches, but I just buy fairly inexpensive ones used. Not really a rabbit hole at all.

dwrowe• 4 years ago

That applies to basically any hobby though right? The perceived depth of the hobby is largely dependent on your desire to explore that depth. It can be incredibly deep for some, as evidenced by people designing their own switches - or shallow (for you) by saying Cherry is good enough.

3np3• 4 years ago

Would you share your keymap? Curious how you're able to get all the necessary characters without making wrist-twisting layer combos. Or are you uisng chording?

rgoulter3• 4 years ago

One of the most popular layouts along these lines is the miryoku layout https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku

To me the key concepts behind this are:

- Home Row modifiers: putting Shift, Ctrl, Gui, Alt behind tap-hold functionality on the home row keys. (Now you don't need to strain your pinky finger with these, and can stay on the home row more).

- More thumb keys, with layering using tap-hold. This brings Backspace, Enter, Esc, Tab to within reach of the thumb, and provides a bunch of layers.

- Patterns on the LHS: Use of numpad idiom instead of number row (covering symbols, and function keys); symmetrical brackets, paretheses, and curly braces.

- Use of the HJKL idiom for stuff like arrow keys, volume control, home/end. etc.

emacs283• 4 years ago

I'm down to a 32-key layout, you can see my layout here

https://configure.zsa.io/moonlander/layouts/wyyxP/latest/0

(The layout currently has more than 32 keys due to extra function keys on the sides and modifiers on the bottom that I only use very rarely. I also no longer use the top pinky keys anymore.)

I have a vim-inspired modal mapping with three main modes: normal (navigation with arrows, pgup/dn, tab switching, etc.), mouse (to move the mouse), and qwerty (for typing). There is one always-present key for each mode that is dedicated only to switching permanently to that mode. These keys are on each of my thumbs, and the third on my right pinky. Each mode also has several unique (and some shared) temporary layers accessible by temporarily holding other keys.

I use a moonlander keyboard but my thumbs sit on the inside keys on the third row, and my palms on the top larger keys that are intended to be used for thumbs.

mrtedbear3• 4 years ago

Sure, QMK files are here.

https://github.com/tss101/clarityqmkkeymap

It's in a bit of a rough state (one folder is for a OLED + RGB Corne r2g, and another is a currently messy adaptation for a Ferris Sweep)

The keymap itself is pretty straightforward. As rgoulter guessed it's just a modification of Miryoku (https://github.com/manna-harbour/miryoku), with some tweaks I made to keep functionally similar layers "together". E.g. the mouse key and navigation key layers are mirror images of each other. And there's a numpad layer, with nested symbols and function key layers that stack from the initial numpad layer. I also designed it to share the load between both hands as much as possible.

benhurmarcel2• 4 years ago

Some examples here: https://keymapdb.com/

JasonFruit3• 4 years ago

I sold my Model F to a collector, who wrote back to tell me he didn't care for it. I have regretted that sale many times, because I loved that keyboard.

Sunspark4• 4 years ago

You could buy one of the new model F remakes.

JasonFruit3• 4 years ago

I have considered it, but there is, after all, a reason I sold it: I do not need to have so many keyboards.

spear• 4 years ago

I waited four years for a reproduction (from https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/) plus another year to complete the keycaps. Worth the wait. Expensive and it has an oddball layout, but the typing feel is glorious.

jonwest• 4 years ago

I’ve had a few different mechanical keyboards and they’ve all felt … OK but not great. I bought a Unicomp Model M relatively recently and it has been awesome. Really appreciate the feeling of the keys. Would get absolutely crucified in an office setting but at home, it’s been a real treat.

JasonFruit3• 4 years ago

My Unicomp is the only mechanical keyboard I have not sold.

plutonorm2• 4 years ago

I had my first mechanical keyboard delivered a few days ago and I must say I am thoroughly enjoying the experience. Each key somehow feels nicer. Placebo, or intrinsically more enjoyable sounds and tactile experiences? I believe it's the latter and I find myself particularly enjoying the 'thock' sound of the backspace and space bar.

havblue• 4 years ago

Placebo, or intrinsically more enjoyable sounds and tactile experiences?

Perhaps the enjoyment is knowing you're annoying people within earshot!

jupp0r• 4 years ago

The trick is to start a mechanical keyboard community at work. Nobody complaints about my Model M anymore buy people are coming over to try it out because it sounds interesting.

TedDoesntTalk• 4 years ago

$3000 for a single key cap??

“….whose Escape key Bassett had replaced with a keycap from a series called Mummy II, made by a keyboard artisan known as PunksDead. “That keycap is rare,” he said. “Right after I got it, a guy offered me three grand for it. And I was, like, ‘Hmmm, tempting—but no.’ ”

er4hn• 4 years ago

FWIW, they look nice, but not $3000 nice: https://keycap-archivist.com/maker/kbk-kwk/mummy-ii. Feels like the equivalent of a "if you know, you know" luxury clothes brand.

s5300• 4 years ago

Feels like an NFT tier shit post tbh

postalrat• 4 years ago

They look like something you would get out of capsule vending machine for a quarter.

riskable4• 4 years ago

It was neat to see Thomas Ran name-dropped in a New Yorker article. He's one of the most brutal keyboard reviewers on YouTube (and quite hilarious). I sent him some of my 3D printed key switches not too long ago and he did a teardown video:

https://youtu.be/H_Ym9528awM

Many have found the mechanical keyboard hobby to be quite deep... When you reach the point when you're ready to start designing your own key switches and actuation mechanisms contact me and I'll give you some advice :)

If you're curious what a 3D printed (analog hall effect) keyboard using 3D printed switches (and keycaps) looks like:

https://gfycat.com/firsthanduniformeasteuropeanshepherd

...and it has some interesting features:

https://gfycat.com/costlyglaringhyracotherium

pca0061323• 4 years ago

What printers do you use to print the keycaps? I tried this before but it takes a lot of work to sand the surface in order to remove the layer lines.

nkrisc• 4 years ago

I would imagine resin printers would be far superior for key caps compared to FDM.

Symbiote• 4 years ago

A while ago I tried using CurviSlicer to FDM-3D print a keycap. It modifies G-code to make slightly-curved top surfaces.

The top of the keycap was nice, and wouldn't have needed any finishing. However, the slicer messed up the sides/insides of the keycap. Someone more motivated could try applying the curviness only to the 'dish' part of the keycap.

Curvislicer: https://github.com/dhardy35/curvislicer

riskable4• 4 years ago

I use a Prusa MK2.5s with a 0.4mm nozzle most of the time. For fine detailed legends I use a 0.25mm nozzle. Here's some keycaps I printed recently:

https://imgur.com/a/Ge0tlc5

The key (haha) to printing great keycaps is to print them on their sides. That way their top surface is smooth (to your fingers) right off the printer. The keycaps in those images have not been post-processed in any way. That's exactly how they looked when I took them off the printer.

bdowling2• 4 years ago

His reviews are great, but I find it mind-boggling that Thomas Ran (Chyrosran22) doesn't touch-type when he demos typing. e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9LcLgcCmus&t=644s.

Is he able to touch-type but simply chooses not to? Or did his obsession with keyboards never lead to him learning how? It's a mystery to me.

pythko• 4 years ago

He’s said that he thinks his method of typing works fine and doesn’t lead to repetitive stress injuries, so he prefers it. I don’t remember which specific videos he said that in off the top of my head, though.

LoganDark3• 4 years ago

Um, excuse me what? That is touch typing. What you're thinking of is "home row", a specific method of touch typing. I also don't use home row, but I'm faster than a lot of people who do, and it absolutely counts as touch typing because I don't have to look at the keyboard at all.

stephc_int13• 4 years ago

In my book, touch typing is being able to type without looking at the keys.

Technically it is possible to touch type with a single finger.

Of course, the more fingers you use, the faster you can type, probably needed to reach > 100 WPM, but I tend to spend much more time reading and thinking than typing usually, so in my case this is marginal.

icambron• 4 years ago

I used to work with a guy with an impressive collection of highly customized mechanical keyboards who couldn’t touch type. I found it baffling, but the reality is that obsessions find you, not the other way around.

rowanG077• 4 years ago

Huh, I thought touch-typing refers to not needing to look at the keys. How can you tell he isn't touch typing by just looking at the video?

theptip• 4 years ago

Very cool! I’ve been idly wondering how I could build a keyboard with smaller keys, for someone I know who is a little person. The 3D printed switches seem like a great option. It looks like some of the keys in that review were smaller than standard, how far could they be scaled down? Do you have a link to print instructions you can share?

seltzered_2• 4 years ago

fyi, had a post on modifying existing keys to be smaller here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/comments/v0g89d...

riskable4• 4 years ago

The default switch width/length is 18mm to fit inside standard Cherry MX key switch cutouts (in a top plate) but you can shrink that down to probably 14mm (just change the parameters in the .scad). Alternatively, you could just cut a sheath-shaped hole in the top plate where you want the switches to go and then you wouldn't even need a switch body and could cram the switches really close together.

I used a trick like that with this silly fidget toy I made a while back:

https://gfycat.com/calculatingthankfulgoldeneye

rmetzler• 4 years ago

Cool design!

elefanten• 4 years ago

Agreed. Very cool use of magnets

seltzered_2• 4 years ago

When you reach the point when you're ready to start designing your own key switches and actuation mechanisms contact me and I'll give you some advice

Any ideas on how to approach half-sized key switches? So far I'm erring to what @pseudoku3 has done by cutting down existing key switches: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/comments/v0g89d...

riskable4• 4 years ago

By changing a few settings my 3D printed Void Switches can be cut down to 18mm from the bottom to the top of the keycap. I just uploaded some pictures so you can see how low profile they can get:

https://imgur.com/a/GejwL34

You could probably shave off another 1-1.5mm by printing some parts in resin (or switching to a teeny tiny nozzle) but I don't think that's enough to warrant the complexity or difficulties it would introduce during assembly.

For going shorter than that you can cut down the travel (the switch in the picture is 2mm of travel if memory serves), use a shorter keycap/stem, or go with a completely different mechanism (I have a few ideas but haven't had a chance to try them out yet).

Jailbird7• 4 years ago

Perhaps unfair to inject a mini-AskHN, but here goes: I'm a Mac user these days, and I have seen that one can go down the rabbit hole with keyboards. I have zero interest in building one. I do have a WASD keyboard, but I've also wanted a bit more, like (better) layers : I have a few fond memories of VT420 life, when those numpad keys and the GOLD/BLUE layers were awesome.) I also don't use Windows...so use of at least some Windows-focused firmware seems less accessible. Reddit seems much more about builds - interesting for keyboard porn and inspiration, I suppose, but not actionable. It also seems many good things are purchased via drops so I suppose that way can work if you know where to go and how long to wait.

I've looked about for a good keyboard with programmable firmware, for a Mac...or even just a programmable numpad-looking macropad, but maybe there's more I've not seen.

What resources are out there to find ways to find off the shelf options, for Macs?

Edit: s/these/off the shelf options/

koziserek• 4 years ago

In the realm of programmable keyboards, it doesn’t really matter which OS you will use it with…

My golden medium is Anne Pro II, even though I own new model F. But more and more I’m getting drawn to an idea of building 36 keys custom.

Watch something from a channel of this hugely underrated gent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_VuXVErD6E

Edit: typos (ipad screen kbd…)

badlucklottery3• 4 years ago

Any keyboard that supports QMK (wired) or ZMK (wireless) will be Mac-compatible, you just have to replace some keycodes in the firmware.

QMK keyboards: https://qmk.fm/keyboards/

ZMK keyboards: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware

Note: I'm not 100% sure the ZMK list is up to date as it's under much more active development and new keyboards get support all the time since almost any keyboard that has QMK support can get ZMK support by swapping the AmTel-based Pro Micro for a nRF52840-based nice!nano board.

Jailbird7• 4 years ago

I did find ZMK, thanks! It seems though that - you have to go buy a board and a shield and put stuff together yourself - at least that's how it looked to me.

kibibyte• 4 years ago

Ergodox-based keyboards might interest you. I use one myself with a Mac. And you could easily set up a specific layer to give you a numpad. There's a bit of a learning curve however: it's a split keyboard with keys arranged in an ortholinear layout. For off-the-shelf options, look into Ergodox EZ.

pletnes• 4 years ago

I love the Moonlander, which is similar and works great with macOS. Including media keys, screen brightness, etc.

Jailbird7• 4 years ago

Thanks, I did see them. Splits are not interesting to me. Not yet anyway.

ttepasse• 4 years ago

If you just want to adjust your keyboard layout, MacOS has historically a rather flexible and adjustable keyboard layout and key binding systems.

For custom keyboard layouts there is the app Ukulele which is slightly more easier than writing the XML files per hand:

https://software.sil.org/ukelele/

https://web.archive.org/web/20080509183706/http://developer....

For more complicated key bindings the Cocoa Text System is rather nice; you can even create little macros:

https://web.archive.org/web/20061127104844/http://www.hcs.ha...

(Disclaimer: I last tested these things 2005ish and Apple is only moving forward. Still I think those systems are still there.)

comfypotato5• 4 years ago

Check out kmonad. I hear a lot of people try mech keyboards and talk about how much they miss the native Mac keyboards. Kmonad will allow you lots of flexibility with layers and all the basics you get with QMK without having to leave your keyboard.

Jailbird7• 4 years ago

I'll do that. I already see overlap with Karabiner Elements, but it does seem like everything in this space overlaps everything else, so... par for the course. Thanks for the tip!

edanm• 4 years ago

I'm only a small bit into this hobby/obsession, but the two keyboards I'd recommend are the Moonlander or the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. They're both split, but the UHK can be combined together (not so easy on the Moonlander.)

They're very popular, so have a bunch of good out-of-the-box documentation and a good out-of-the-box experience if you don't want to go too far into the rabbit hole of configuring keys and stuff.

I think the UHK is a bit more pleasant build-quality wise, and it's definitely easier to start with because it's not columnar, which is a whole other thing that a keyboard can be. (Some people like columnar layouts, some hate it, I'm undecided myself and use both.)

j_m_b• 4 years ago

I've recently switched from using cherry silent reds to blues and wow what a difference! The blues just feel amazing in my Vortex Race 3 keyboard.

2OEH8eoCRo0• 4 years ago

I like my $35 Keychron :)

immigrantheart• 4 years ago

I currently use HHKB. In the past I used Microsoft Sculpt and I really liked it. My HHKB is not good for my wrist.

I just ordered literally yesterday an UHK keyboard, with trackball module as well. Hopefully this can satisfy my HHKB + Microsoft Sculpt combo.

If not, I might have to go dive the keyboard rabbit hole.

aphroz• 4 years ago

Was it really needed to have private jet for that? I feel it could have been shipped in an enveloppe.

woevdbz• 4 years ago

Once, someone pointed out to me that we spend a large amount of time with our feet in shoes and our hands on a keyboard, but somehow a closet full of shoes is more readily accepted than even just a pair of keyboards to switch between. I felt good about buying a second keyboard after that

rocket_surgeron• 4 years ago

It's impossible for me to be unbiased because I learned to type on a Selectric, (and I now own two of them) but my personal belief is that typing was perfected with the Selectric, and a Model F or M keyboard with buckling springs is the closest you can get to that perfection on the PC side of things.

wellthisisgreat• 4 years ago

I have assembled 4 or 5 keyboards, the last 2 all have switches assembled from different parts (springs, tops, stems etc bought separately). I don’t really care that much about the shape of the keycaps (cherry profile would do but good to have alternatives), but i am very particular about the layout.

It seems to me the only logical resolution of my keyboard hobby is it design my own keyboard that will address most of my complaints. They are minor but the more I think about it the more I conclude that in the future people would be using fully custom (layout, spacing, etc) keyboards a lot. Unless the typing goes away.

cplusplusfellow• 4 years ago

I would love to get into this hobby but I want keys that are absolutely silent. The mac keyboard of 2013 era is ideal for me.

iamevn• 4 years ago

Check out Matias keyboards with their quiet click switches. They're very quiet and solidly tactile.

HippoBaro• 4 years ago

You should look into Topre boards. They are very silent and have great tactile feeling. It’s not as quiet as a MacBook keyboard, but it’s as quiet as you’ll get I think

nkingsy• 4 years ago

Got their “low end” typeheaven used after hearing about it here. The sensitivity takes some getting used to, but it encourages hard typers like me to soften up, which is better for speed and comfort. Overall love it, totally silent

sowbug• 4 years ago

Silent red, a.k.a. pink switches, might be what you're looking for. The travel is a lot longer than the chiclet Mac keyboard, but you don't have to press all the way down to activate the switch.

CTDOCodebases7• 4 years ago

I like mechanical keyboards but like you I like silence also when I’m not wearing my noise cancelling ear phones.

Sound comes from the upstroke and the downstroke of the switches and echoes throughout the case.

If you or anyone reading this comment would like to build a near silent board I would suggest getting some Silent Alpaca switches or U4 Silent Tactile switches with switch films applied. Make sure to use all the sound dampening mods available (foam/tape mod/polyfill etc) to deaden any echo inside the case you are using. Avoiding cases that have a lot of echo will help also. Plug the back of the stabilisers with generous amounts of Krytox 205g0 and straighten the wires.

If you do the above the barely audible sound signature of the keyboard will resemble the soft pitter patter of rain.

laserlight6• 4 years ago

Cherry MX Silent Browns are the worst I’ve ever used --- despite that non-silent browns are acceptable. I suggest that you buy a key switch tester to find which one works for you.

LAC-Tech• 4 years ago

I like lots of keys. I have an 1800 keyboard (with a numpad).

Which means going down the keyboard rabbit hole isn't that appealing - because they all tend to be tiny.

kybernetikos• 4 years ago

Yeah, the mechanical keyboard community definitely have specific designs they like and if you're not into the same things then there's not a lot of choice.

I like having a built in USB hub for example. The keyboard is the perfect place to plug memory sticks, hardware wallets, mouse (charge or wireless dongle), utf key. My ideal keyboard probably has at least 3 usb ports on it. The closest I've got so far is the das keyboard with 2.

bschwindHN2• 4 years ago

Until you realize you can design your own PCB at exactly the size and key count you want...

LoganDark3• 4 years ago

I've been wanting to try this out recently, but have no idea where to start. I know the basic idea is to go grab KiCad (or preferably something else a bit faster, not Python-based), make something (??), send it off to JLCPCB or whatever, buy all the components you need individually and assemble them, etc. but that's about as deep as my knowledge goes. :/

morsch2• 4 years ago

I occasionally think about getting a mechanical keyboard, because I'd like a nice keyboard. But I have no interest in it as a hobby, and the whole topic has a similar vibe as the audiophile community. I feel like the chance of getting punked is pretty high.

LeetHacks• 4 years ago

Plenty cheap boards out there with Cherry MX mechanical switches. A first board doesn't have to cost more than $100, maybe even towards $70 dollar range. Buy secondhand and you can go even lower.

Go for Cherry MX Switches. Want clicky (and loud) take blue. Want tactile go brown. Want no bump at all when typing go red.

I would find a cheap second hand board and see if you can appreciate the experience. It probably will not have lubed switches or may have a scratchy bump or hollow sound or whatever the hobbyist tell themselves to justify a new board. You probably will already be amazed by the quality improvement and won't care.

f1refly2• 4 years ago

Want no bump at all when typing go red.

No, black. Red has an extra high activation point and much lighter springs (marketed to gamers for quicker reactions) that often misfires when the user rests his hand on the board and doesn't take special care not to press anything. Black is the standard office class linear one of the bunch with the weight matching brown and blue.

ace2358• 4 years ago

At least with audio it’s really easy to skip the audiophile stuff and still get excellent advice and recommendations as audio work is a huge field with lots of professionals in it and heaps of companies that have been in the industry for 50 years.

Computer Keyboards… not so much :(

CTDOCodebases7• 4 years ago

It’s more like fashion than anything else. There are differences and trends but a lot of it comes down to personal taste.

There’s plenty of options now particularly at the lower end of the market the issue here is QC though. Two people can buy the same board but the fit and finish might differ wildly.

switchers• 4 years ago

I think it depends on how deep you want to go initially. It's very easy to buy a pretty good mechanical keyboard off the shelf, and that's as far as many people need to go. Determine the switches you want, find some decently reviewed keyboards you like the look of, buy it (from a reputable online store).

If you immediately want to spend hundreds on a custom setup and are paying someone you've never met to do it for you, before receiving any kind of product, that's where it can get dicey.

laserlight6• 4 years ago

As someone who embraced mechanical keyboards, I’m sorry that people get this impression, which is totally deserved. People who use custom keyboards as a signaling mechanism degrade their perceived benefit. For me, programmability of the keyboard is the most important factor; then, ergonomics.

wolrah2• 4 years ago

But I have no interest in it as a hobby, and the whole topic has a similar vibe as the audiophile community.

While the custom keyboard community does tend to get in to pointlessly overcomplicated cables similarly to audiophiles, unlike the audiophile crowd no one really tries to claim they actually do anything beyond looking good.

IMO the keyboard community does a pretty decent job separating the subjective from the objective. People will go deep in to rabbit holes about their preferred feel and sound, but they acknowledge that once you've gone past the entry level basically everything other than ergonomics is pure personal preference and even ergonomics has a lot of personal aspects to it based on your own physical needs, setup, and use case.

You won't find anyone trying to claim that their magical USB cable makes the bits go faster, unlike the audiophile world where $500 ethernet cables are a thing.

Macha• 4 years ago

It's surprising to me, as it feels like a development from the last 5 years where the hobbyist community has totally eclipsed the prosumer community.

I had to replace a failed keyboard last year and went looking for advice - when I last did it it was basically a question of "do you want clicky or not switches? Das is a pretty reliable brand but Razer has some stuff with RGB if you like that"

Now it's all "Oh don't buy an off-the-shelf one, wait for this dude's next massdrop order or buy a kit and put it together yourself"

And I just don't have time for that. This is one area where I'm pretty happy just looking for a recommendation for something I can just buy and use.

mckirk• 4 years ago

I'd just get a Keychron in whatever format you prefer, maybe together with a set of keycaps you like. Still fairly cheap compared to going full custom, but definitely respectable performance. I'd always go for hot-swappable switches though, since my last keyboard (a Ducky) developed key chattering issues after a while, and I'd want to fix that if it happened again.

GuB-42• 4 years ago

You don't need to be part of the "community" to use a mechanical keyboard, it doesn't have to be a hobby, normally mechanical keyboards don't need maintenance and last longer than rubber domes.

As for choosing the right one, the best is to try them out at the store if you can. Find the one that looks and feels the best, buy it, plug it in, done, drop-in replacement. You can't really go wrong, these are just keyboards.

I'd say the only feature you may look for that is not obvious is NKRO (N-key rollover), or the ability to press any number of keys at the same time. If you are paying $100 or more for a keyboard, it is something you want. Most keyboards in this price range have it. 6KRO means you can press any 6 keys at the same time, it is not quite NKRO, but unless you have special needs, it is just as good, 2KRO (2 keys) is the one to avoid. It is sometimes called "anti ghosting" but some manufacturers cheat, so, not a reliable indication.

There are other features like hardware remapping, RGB lighting,... but if you need these, you will know beforehand.

Small caveat though. Many mechanical keyboards, especially in big box stores have clicky switches, clicky switches may be perfectly fine for you, but chances are that people next to you won't like them as much. Please be considerate of your surroundings when using a loud keyboard (are we back into audiophile territory ;))

auganov• 4 years ago

You don't need to be part of the "community" to use a mechanical keyboard, it doesn't have to be a hobby, normally mechanical keyboards don't need maintenance and last longer than rubber domes.

I never considered a mechanical keyboard before seeing comments fawning over them. I was already a fast typist and had some strong preferences about keyboard layouts, bindings, ergonomics etc. There was never a huge community around this so I was quite intrigued when I discovered these people who cared so much about their keyboards. Somehow all these years I must have missed out on mechanical keyboards. I tried a few and even the "light" switches are SOOO much more tedious to type on than (decent) modern laptop-style keyboards. Searched around and most in that community seem to take the position that indeed they don't help with typing speeds, or are in fact slower to type on, but they're more "comfortable" (which doesn't make much sense to me). I want a keyboard that's good for typing/using. I don't care if it's "mechanical". Sure, people have their preferences, but this mantra of "mechanical" somehow being inherently advantageous all else be damned originated with that community. When I see people pushing mechanical keyboards I always suspect they've been heavily influenced by them.

breckenedge• 4 years ago

Yes, there are some popular communities that emphasize form rather than function. Avoid those. I suggest https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/

userbinator• 4 years ago

An interesting and slightly unsettling fact about Wrona is that when he competes, he has no strong preference for mechanical or rubber-dome boards, and usually just goes for whatever’s cheapest.

As a fast typist myself (normally 140-160, brief bursts over 200) I can say that being able to type quickly is not something that most mechanical keyboards are optimised for; what's important is a very low actuation force and travel (but a long "cushion zone" past that), since at high speeds caring whether the key was successfully hit will make you hesitate and slow down.

benreesman4• 4 years ago

It must be twice a week that I think about getting involved in custom mechanical keyboards: it seems like such a cool interest!

I've been pretty happy with the HHKB (no caps, obviously), but it just sounds fun to make something truly your own.

Does anyone have a good pointer for the right place to start with this (huge) topic?

CTDOCodebases7• 4 years ago

My pointer is modify your HHKB if you like it.

You can modify the domes, get adapters (sliders) to use MX style keycaps and even replace the case.

benreesman4• 4 years ago

Thanks for the tip!

If you don't mind a follow-up question: what's a gentle transition from the HHKB's Topre switches into something more popular in the mechanical keyboard community? I honestly have very little intuition about the color-naming scheme for switches.

ThePhysicist• 4 years ago

From a reliability standpoint, rubberdome keys seems to be a superior technology. Each and every mechanical keyboard I used developed key chattering after several years (sometimes months) and had to be thrown out eventually. On the other hand I have various rubberdome keyboards that type away without issue after almost a decade of use. Maybe it's just that most modern switches are rubbish, as I've seen people type on old model M keyboards that must have had decades of use, so it might just be a manufacturing issue.

samatman• 4 years ago

I've never had a Cherry or Kailh switch go bad on me and I'm hard on gear generally. Are you talking about generic switches, if not, how do you do it? Wreck them I mean, I've never heard this complaint before.

I'd had the circuit board fail, two months out of warranty, and the ErgoDoxEZ guy refused to replace it. But that's on his factory's shoddy workmanship, not mechanical keyboards generally.

Latty• 4 years ago

In stark contrast, I've never had a switch fail, but I've had rubber domes wear out and stop registering key presses multiple times when I was younger.

hammyhavoc• 4 years ago

I can kill a rubberdome keyboard in 3 days. No bullshit. Name brands including Logitech. Never looked back since going with a mechanical keyboard I can quickly swap switches out on. I have a very light touch, I just do a lot of typing.

rcarmo• 4 years ago

This reminded me that I’m still looking for a Bluetooth Planck. Ergodox seems to be stuck in the past regarding connectivity options, otherwise I’d have bought a Planck EZ by now.

MrDresden• 4 years ago

Recently got my self my first, a UHK[0] and couldn't be happier. The amount of macros I've been able to configure into it is astounding.

[0] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com

hot_gril3• 4 years ago

Am I the only one who prefers the most pleb membrane keyboards over anything mechanical? I already type super quickly on, say, a 2015 MacBook Pro, a default 2010 Apple external KB, or a $5 Logitech. There's just enough feedback to know that I pressed the key, it takes very little force, and I can glide my fingers around really quickly. I don't even bother with cleaning cause the oiliness makes it faster if anything.

I've tried several mech keyboards. The longer key travel doesn't seem to improve speed, and I don't see how it would. Also most of them come with the concave key caps for some reason, which of course you can switch out, but I feel like any amount I spend fixing one would still result in something worse than what I already have.

vladvasiliu3• 4 years ago

For me, it's not so much a question of speed, but one of comfort.

The longer key travel helps with avoiding bottoming out once you're used to your keyboard. On a short-travel keyboard, where keys are basically "either fully up or down", I don't think it's easy, or even possible, to not bottom-out.

This also allows keys to not need so much force for actuation. Whenever I switch from my mechanical keyboard to my 2013 MBP or HP laptop (with a similar kb) I always miss letters because I don't press hard enough.

I honestly don't know whether I type quicker or slower on a mechanical keyboard. But speed has never been a limiting factor in my work.

laserlight6• 4 years ago

While I was using MBP keyboard, I used to think that shorter key travel was better and more ergonomic, because it required less finger movement. After using mechanical keyboards for years, I’m very surprised to discover how much strain bottoming out puts on my muscles.

LoganDark3• 4 years ago

I also hate keyboards with a lot of key travel. It feels like I sink into the keyboard and then catch on the surrounding keys when trying to move. The 2015 MBP keyboard was peak keyboard to me. Not only can I not find any PC keyboards with the same feel, I also can't find any PC keyboards with the correct layout.

laserlight6• 4 years ago

Key travel is separate from actuation distance. In most mechanical key switches, actuation distance is very short compared to travel. So, the typist doesn’t have to dig deep or bottom out. Hitting only as far as actuation distance requires training, of course. As someone who like MBP keyboards, I prefer mechanical ones.

vladvasiliu3• 4 years ago

I don't know what the "correct layout" is for you, but I've found that the MS Sculpt Ergo has a very similar key feel to my 2013 MBP, which, I think, has the same keyboard as the 2015.

richdaystrom• 4 years ago

My favorite keyboard of all time is the one that came with the Atari 400, so to answer your question, no you are not the only one.

vr46• 4 years ago

The weird thing about key travel to me is that the keyboard isn't an instrument, there's no control or finesse required, it's binary - you want the character or not. When playing an instrument like a piano, you want the level of control (assuming you play better than I do) so long travel makes sense. If playing a guitar at speed, economy of movement is key to accuracy at high speeds - (a) strings should not be any further away from the frets than is required, (b) fingers should not lift any further away than is required, (c) pick should not move miles and miles but just enough to make the required sound.

I enjoy typing on clicky keyboards like my Keychron, but I gotta say, the flawed MBP keyboards of recent times with hardly any travel were amazing. I'm on a 2019 MBP 16 now and it's not as good as the previous one, and the new 2021 MBP isn't much better either.

hot_gril3• 4 years ago

Ignoring the unreliability and lack of esc key, I liked the tiny travel on the 2016-2018 MBPs, but I didn't like how crowded the keys were. In fact that part seemed objectively bad: The surface area they added does nothing but increase the chance of mistyping, since any reasonably-sized finger hitting the edge of those keys would hit an adjacent key too.

Gatsky• 4 years ago

I’m the same I guess. I’ve tried a couple of mechs, and now my daily driver is the MS sculpt ergo. I’m happy on a macbook kb, or the cheap membrane kb I have to use at work. The mechs just didn’t have a material advantage for me, and I didn’t like the feel.

RamblingCTO2• 4 years ago

I felt the same and loved the stock macbook keyboards. Now I have a keychron k7, which is "slim" for mechanical keyboards and that's what I prefer. I still don't like proper mechanical keyboards with full height. Feels weird to me. Whatever floats your boat I guess!

bmitc• 4 years ago

The major downside is that people who use mechanical keyboards are almost unbearable to listen to over video (like Zoom) or YouTube or streaming videos due to the incessant and loud clacking of the keys.

comfypotato5• 4 years ago

Silent keys (Zilents for a tactile example), o rings, and other more technical mods help with this!

f1refly2• 4 years ago

That just means the video conferencing software isn't set up right. Millions of teens use mechanical keyboards every day while talking to each other over the internet, all without transmitting the clicks. Anyways, you can still tell the other conferencee to either calibrate his voice activation or change his keyboard.

dmix• 4 years ago

How can they not include a picture of the two keycaps he get delivered on a private jet? tsk tsk

hydrolox• 4 years ago

is it just me or do articles never have enough photos

RamblingCTO2• 4 years ago

You don't have to get obsessive with it. I have a keychron k7 and I'm absolutely happy with it, no plans of changing anything. Well, I broke the on/off switch when disassembling because I spilled water over it. I contacted them and got new switches. I soldered on one of them and don't plan to open that thing again anytime soon.

0xCAP• 4 years ago

I'd LOVE to buy a split keyboard, but I can't seem to find any prebuilt that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and soldering my own is not an option (I have some physical issues impairing my precision hand work).

hosteur• 4 years ago

Me too. I really would love to basically have everything mentioned here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrska7UU7BE&feature=youtu.be

That is:

    - Mechanical
    - Split
    - Ergonomic
    - Non-qwerty
    - 30 % keyboard

But I have one extra requirement: I am Scandinavian which means that I need to have keys for Nordic letters. This makes me extremely niche which in turn means that I cannot buy anything pre-built.

And I do not find much joy in building my own keyboards. I want something prebuilt.

There must be a business opportunity here for someone to make something that is split, ergonomic keyboard with good mechanical keys and which allows for customization such that Nordic letters could be mapped...

benhurmarcel2• 4 years ago

Most of those keyboards are programmable, so any accented key can be mapped easily.

If you want the keycap legend to match it's more complicated though. But if you touch-type you can be ok with it.

I made up my own weird layout (including accented characters for 3 languages), but that's not an issue since I'm ok with fully blank keycaps.

haspoken• 4 years ago

https://archive.ph/SFe8x

The obsessive pleasures of mechanical-keyboard tinkerers

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