Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/brazil-s-favela-tech-boom-young-people-from-poor-neighborhoods-set-out-to-conquer-digital-world-a-81a80497-0634-49e1-ad31-d1c8d5f83382

by zwieback • 5 years ago

165 171 5 years ago

spiegel.de

tdrgabi• 5 years ago

I have mixed feelings about the article. I was curious to read about a tech boom.

They described a twitch player which earns enough to be afloat. A gaming pro team and an artist selling nft's.

Is it just an add for nft's or a submarine piece for afro games.

dang• 5 years ago

OK, we've taken 'tech boom' out of the title since that seems to be distracting from what the article is actually about.

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls.

The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

lvass• 5 years ago

Does MAV-PT still pay for spam or are you doing this for free? (The party this guy is spamming for is widely known for paying for spam comments and generating politic discussions online)

bserge2• 5 years ago

When you're at zero, anything happening is a "boom".

I should know, I'm from a country where IT is "booming"... Most of it is tedious boring work that was outsourced by western companies because no one there wants to do it, plus it's cheaper than even creating some automated processes.

Still, that's a pessimistic way to look at it. It's a good thing, and it can grow into something better.

627467• 5 years ago

Another perspective is that there are people who prefer to do those jobs (instead of say, working in Amazon warehouse) but can't because it's cheaper (and logistically possible) to outsource to another country.

space_fountain2• 5 years ago

But also on some level why in the world are they more deserving of the job then the potentially better qualified foreigner just because where they happened to be born.

bserge2• 5 years ago

If these people don't apply for these jobs, they might as well not exist.

Amazon warehouses are staffed with immigrants in Europe. And they would simply not be able to do anything IT related.

It might seem easy for us, but it's not. We're talking about people who can't reinstall Windows. They won't be doing manual unit testing anytime soon, or ever, nevermind anything more complicated.

German companies love keeping it local. Things like manual app testing are advertised as Minijobs, but very few are applying. And of course, they complain about a lack of workers. So outsourcing can make sense beyond saving every penny.

neonate• 5 years ago

https://archive.is/Omfjf

TameAntelope• 5 years ago

How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela?

When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by the cartels operating there.

I'm glad that's not the case, but I wish the article had more information about how these people were able to operate safely.

dasil003• 5 years ago

Because they live there and have relationships, it's very different from a tourist who just looks like a cash machine.

lostlogin• 5 years ago

They may be a degree of liability involved too - take/encourage/let tourists go there and it could have consequences for the tour operator?

I am very much not a lawyer.

aylmao5• 5 years ago

Depends on the city/country, but there's also an argument affecting tourists is just not worth it.

Money isn't the goal, money + little trouble is the goal. If a city is a big tourist destination, the bad press, the potential involvement of foreign nations, the outcry from the tourism industry, etc are all good reasons for local law enforcement to strike back hard.

Especially if overwhelmed, it's very possible local law enforcement wont give the same weight to an investigation involving only locals and one involving a foreigner, especially if the eyes of, say, Germany are staring at you.

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and Lula (Worker’s Party candidate who Bolsanaro imprisoned for 2 years on bogus charges) has a big lead. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this and other hi-jinx as the Fall election nears. It’s going to be a messy one. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

gdcbe• 5 years ago

I lived at the edge of 2 favellas for a couple of months as part of my short life in Brazil. I can tell you, while their houses are small and simple made they often have high tech in their houses. Partly due to the fact that their government had programs allowing them to buy it cheaply.

From my limited experience the problem wasn’t so much that tech wasn’t or couldn’t be available but that a lot of them couldn’t even read.

They provide electricity tapped from the net and everything.

Also remember that for these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos. Especially over the long run.

pelasaco5• 5 years ago

What would be impossible for most of us, but some born and raised there, have no problem to spend their live living there, in their community. Another reason: The rent is cheap, energy and internet is "for free".

thescriptkiddie2• 5 years ago

these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos

I think it is enlightening to look at these sort of situations through the lens of feudalism. Criminal gangs are not sociopathic comic book villains interested in violence for the fun of it, they are more like landlords, and are in it for money, security, and a sense of community. Medieval kings, the Italian/American/Japanese mafias, South/Central American drug cartels, and Middle Eastern/African "warlords" are all cut from the same cloth.

arcticfox• 5 years ago

Also remember that for these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos. Especially over the long run.

Right - a lot of these places are essentially very poor neighborhoods under separate governance. For better (sometimes) or (often) for worse.

vm• 5 years ago

12M+ people live in favelas. Many parts are safe.

pelasaco5• 5 years ago

if you live there and you earn your respect from the community, you are safe. In most favelas, criminals are not allowed to steal from other residents. They have their own rules. The real metaverse.

goldenchrome2• 5 years ago

The real metaverse? You mean... a community?

dudus• 5 years ago

The drug dealers for all the bad they do they also support and help the community a lot. This is part of their strategy, the community in turn protect them, hide them. In many favelas the drug lord is the law, and the law is don't poop where you eat. You may be able to steal from people outside the favela but not inside the favela, if you do the punishment can be medieval, like cut hands or even death. It's not only for residents though. Even as a tourist you are probably safe in a favela, it's their interest you feel safe so you don't feel intimidated to go buy drugs. But again after living in Rio and São Paulo for many years I wouldn't recommend anyone to do that.

smoe2• 5 years ago

Don't know much about Rio, but what I have seen and heard elsewhere in Latin America over the years.

Often times organized crimes substitutes an absent government and enforce their own set of law and order in the community. They can't afford to just rob the people blind as sometimes portrayed in media. They rely on a somewhat sybmiotic relationship with the "citizens" to act as messengers, human surveillance cameras, warning them from unknown people entering, making false statements to the police etc. The gangs are often much more effective at crime prevention than the government, they often invest more locally than the government.

A big chunk of the violet crimes comes from conflicts between gangs. If you are part of the community and stay in line you can actually be pretty safe. As a tourist on the other hand, you are fair game.

Obviously, it is not everything is rosy and nice, but in my opinion one of the big challenges in facing organized crime, is that the governments don't actually have a believable improvement to offer to the people, so the locals will often defend the current situation.

cpach2• 5 years ago

I guess that’s how it has also been in parts of Italy (and maybe still is, to some extent…?)

anonporridge5• 5 years ago

The interesting thing is that this is literally how all governments originally emerged.

The strongest local gang establishes a monopoly on violence in their territory. They then extract tribute (taxes) from the local population in various ways. If they get too greedy and extract too much, then eventually the plebs have little enough to lose to break their established order and fight the establishment gang. The most competent gangs find the equilibrium of taxation that is the maximum they can extract without suffocating production and innovation or creating an opposing revolution.

So, in locations where this has happened in modern states, it simply demonstrates that the "official" police and state have failed to manage their monopoly on violence properly, and are being actively out competed by a more effective organization that, if it continues to sustainably control its territory, will eventually become recognized as the new legitimate state.

andrepd• 5 years ago

This is a romanticised view that is not really true. Particularly this bit:

If you are part of the community and stay in line you can actually be pretty safe.

kvgr2• 5 years ago

The also do not want to get rich people mugged in favelas, because they go there to buy drugs. Bad for business.

speeder• 5 years ago

I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. There are other problems to solve first.

There was an event I participated about this, I was teaching about gamedev using opensource tools, a lot of people paid to go, the government then brought in a ton of people from the favelas as part of their "digital inclusion" program, although I was happy to teach them, later I heard many of them just stole people's computers, mouses, keyboards, etc... and bolted, a good chunk of the "digital inclusion" people that went for free, didn't sit in a single workshop, instead they just disappeared, and a ton of equipment with them.

Even outside favelas, our infrastructure is just shit too, I work from home and losing power and internet is a constant threat, sometimes water goes out too.

And corruption in general just runs deep, I know a TV producer that was hired to make an Ad for the government, he had to record a government building inside a favela, to make the ad for the government, yet the local government guy wouldn't let him inside to make the recording the government was demanding, he had to approach a congressman about it, and the guy just flat demanded 10k to "do his thing" and make it work.

He did paid the guy, then after that the drug lord demanded another 10k to allow the TV crew inside the favela without being shot.

After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals.

csdvrx2• 5 years ago

After he recorded it, the congressman was seen with a new car... meanwhile the drug lord seemly dunked the entire 10k into meat, charcoal and booze and threw a huge barbecue party to the locals.

It seems to me that one care more about his constituents that the other!

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

It sounds like Lula is leading in the polls, and it sounds like the best thing for the working people of Brazil is to elect him.

rightbyte• 5 years ago

How could the congressman influence the recording permit process? What new car goes for 10k?

I believe you it is bad but that sounds like your friend is spreading a tall tale.

ForOldHack2• 5 years ago

"I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. " Wow. On the ground. Please tell us much more.

whizzter• 5 years ago

Having been a teacher for unemployed people that event just sounds like it was planned(unintentionally) to fail for these "inclusives".

If a sub-group (esp with people who probably knows each other) comes in with a far lower general skill level it's very easy to lose them to an inadequacy feeling that makes them give up if they expect to fail, being a teacher this is very very hard to notice because in a mixed group the top and middle percentages will ask questions and generally feel as "getting it" but those already feeling stupid often doesn't dare ask questions (but often nod or similar simulating being "smart" to not stand out).

usrusr3• 5 years ago

From my comfy first world perspective (far from Silicon Valley level, but still..) I consider gaming an addiction not without its own perils. But if it substitutes widespread substance addiction, even if only in part, it is a big step forward. Gaming can be a powerful push towards increased digital literacy, particularly for gamers with low buying power. There's a much wider and more healthy path from purely consumptive gaming to being productive in the field of the digital than from purely consumptive substance abuse to being productive in the field of chemistry or whatever (even if the very well-told fiction of Breaking Bad might suggest otherwise). It's certainly no substitute for infrastructure, order and education, but that doesn't necessarily imply that investment in one cannot be more worthwhile than investment in the other. Don't skip on the hanging fruits in one field because you haven't solved all hard problems in the other.

vmception2• 5 years ago

Its exaggerated, there would probably be no remedy for you if it occurred but that doesn't mean people don't have other shit going on.

Most “dangerous ghettos” are the same way. If people dont have beef with you they arent just looking to take advantage. A sociopathic person with a badge is much more dangerous because they dont have to collaborate at all, unlike civilians.

cpach2• 5 years ago

I don’t have first-hand knowledge of this but according to what I have read about the favelas it’s like a shadow society basically. I.e. they have their own rules, companies, infrastructure. IIRC the book I read it in was probably Stewart Brand’s “Whole Earth Discipline”.

Carioca• 5 years ago

Crime syndicates keep the peace in these communities, and they can be negotiated with.

wolverine8765• 5 years ago

Any time you hear those extremes about any place - e.g., lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense. People live there; they are biologically the same as you; they live, breathe and think, they not complete idiots. They aren't organizing, tolerating or sticking around a situation like that.

(That said, I know nothing about favelas or what is wise or unwise to do in them.)

ghaff• 5 years ago

lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense

In general (although it used to be truer).

That said, there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night.

No, you probably won't be shot. But being robbed isn't out of the question.

What is almost certainly true is you're pretty safe most places if you blend in reasonably, keep valuables hidden, and look like you know what you're doing.

kilroy123• 5 years ago

My ex girlfriend lived in Brazil for ~10 years and her job was running tours to the favelas. She told me there were fairly strict rules about this sort of thing.

The gangs there cared about drugs and making money. As long as you weren't there interfering with them making money, they didn't really care about you as a tourist. They might get a phone or pocket change from you but why waste time and money on just that? Bigger fish to fry.

In all the years my ex hungout and worked in the favela, not one bad thing happened to her. Which surprised the hell out of me. (She was a foreigner but spoke the language)

aylmao5• 5 years ago

I'm from Mexico— there's plenty of "bad places" there too.

You really don't want something bad to happen to a tourist, so you focus on the worst-case scenario. It akin to a children and streets; it's easier to tell children to avoid crossing a street and not have to worry, even if statistically it's pretty unlikely an accident would happen.

Moreover, since the news largely focuses on the tragedies, it's easy to get an inflated sense of danger. I know people who live in Culiacán, right in the center of the Sinaloa Cartel. They'll tell me every day in the news someone is dead.

Nonetheless, they live worry-free, peaceful lives. In a city of 1 million, and especially if you're not involved with cartels, even considering the homicide rates are much higher than they should, it's very unlikely something bad will happen to you.

StefanWestfal• 5 years ago

I am glad it worked for your girlfriend.

One should still not simply walk into a Favela as a tourist. I have family in Brazil (Sao Paulo) and a majority had different experiences even when being careful.

Regarding "Not wasting time and money", it goes quick. A guy on a motorbike with a gun, a car that stops and 3 people jump you etc.

I love Brazil, the people, the music, the landscape, the farova, but criminality is a problem (more then 50 000 homicides per year).

brabel2• 5 years ago

Tourists are highly likely to have money in their pockets and expensive gadgets with them, so they tend to be easy targets.

Someone foreign who learns the "ways" of the locals would easily be able to mingle though and go mostly unnoticed (Brazil has had peoples of all races for a long time, it's not like you stand out much by being blonde or asian, for example). And any local will immediately tell you to never walk around with money or expensive devices, and specially, never flash them around no matter where you go (near favelas there's a lot of unemployed/poor/desperate people - no one wants to live in one... so it ends up being a lot more dangerous in general than anywhere else).

cassianoleal• 5 years ago

When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse.

Tourists stand out like a sore thumb as a target. Your guide was probably right.

mixmastamyk• 5 years ago

A friend of mine's company does the favela tour with cooperation from the community and has been doing it safely for almost twenty years now:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d24775...

https://www.instagram.com/bealocaltours/

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

humaniania• 5 years ago

There are some YouTuber travel channels that have fascinating on the ground footage of the favelas in Brazil. It's not as extreme as you think. I very much recommend these two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og9kpw5vxh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW-V3_-FgA

kranke155• 5 years ago

This is pretty wild and an exaggeration. You’ll get robbed if you’re not a local, sure.

Crime in the favelas is again afaik a very local thing. I’ve had lunch and dinner in restaurants in favelas and I know there’s a favela in Rio where people go for night life.

Ofc I am Brazilian and have family there.

A lot of these favelas the gang that controls them holds the peace. As a gringo you’d get robbed immediately sure, but for locals? The favelas are not some insane dystopian nightmare for many people who live in them. They’re just poor places, shanty towns.

poisonarena4• 5 years ago

I lived in a favela in Rio Comprido controlled by comando vermelho (tropa 17) all 2019/2020.. I used to visit my gf and her family, at first but then when the pandemic happened I rented the 'apartment' underneath their 'apartment'.

Everyday I would walk past the the checkpoint with like a 15 year old guy with an extened clip glock behind a makeshift cement barrier.

The internet situation was pretty weird, some telecom, that I could barely get any info on made a deal with the comando to provide everyone with internet. every month I would walk up with my gf further up the hill where the C.V. headquarters were and we would pay I think about 20 dollars to the boss, this big fat black guy with a revolver and a metal cash box, and a list on paper of all the families that paid, and what speed/tier they paid for, I opted for the 30 dollar a month ultrafast bandwidth(i didnt notice a difference), but it was fast enough for my gf who was Gold in League of Legends to have 40 ping.

This was not one of the major telecoms, and they had some sort of deal with the C.V. and when the internet would fuck up the Commando even had technicians

https://imgur.com/a/J9QjBuQ

here is the favela

across the way from the checkpoint CV is selling drugs on a ping pong table, one day when my gf+her family was out of town I just had to go see what the deal was and bought a little bit of everything

https://imgur.com/a/DD1xeh6

CV stands for Comando vermelho(red command) and PR stands for the favela Paula Ramos..

CV also made money from the little busses that i took to come and go, the other way they make lots of money is selling gas, and selling guns to bandits.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention I never felt unsafe at all, and have been robbed only outside of the favela.. If there is any crime or stuff like that the comando would kill the robber or thieves. I only felt unsafe when the police/bope would come on raids, because they didnt get their monthly bribe.

verhaust• 5 years ago

Thanks for the local insight. I found it very interesting. How did they handle the pandemic? Where did you end up moving to and what was the reason you decided to move?

nwatson2• 5 years ago

I spent four years in Rio Comprido/Tijuca and left when I was six, Rua Conselheiro Barros near Rua do Bispo, not quite the favela there. I lived in various other places in Brazil too and got to visit and stay in many of "sketchy" places because of my parents' work.

guythedudebro• 5 years ago

Great comment, what are the drugs?

sangnoir• 5 years ago

My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by the cartels operating there.

Your understanding appears to be empirically wrong. The thing about poverty is that you learn to depend on those around you, and gang membership aligns by neighborhood or even specific blocks.

Outsiders may be fair game, but locals have built relationships within the community over years. The armed gang member may feel some loyalty to the organization that let him play games when he was 10, and he has a cousin/friend on the eSports team. There are very few secrets in such close-knit communities you cannot secretly steal and fence the equipment without someone knowing - outsiders can't either because there is always someone keeping vigilance (hence the guns).

qwerty456127• 5 years ago

How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela?

BTW Netflix even produced a whole 4-season dystopian scifi TV show about how resourceful young people from Brazil's favelas can be - "3%". It's quite watchable and provides some interesting clues.

kvgr2• 5 years ago

I was on tour with a local guide, in 3 favelas and I felt safe. There is a lot of favelas, some are better and some are worse. Some are basically "safe" when you live there, normal shops, schools and so on. Petty crime is often worse in the good streets below, because thugs and kids go to steel from tourists. I would not go the by my self at night. But there are big differences between favelas.

wbsss4412• 5 years ago

Not to claim that what you were told isn’t true, but when people make such claims, it is often the case that they have little experience going into those areas themselves, and are simply relaying the stereotypes.

newaccount2021• 5 years ago

people from around the world hungry to pull themselves up from the bottom...

meanwhile in NYC and Oakland, high school students are on "strike" and walking out of class over bogus covid hysteria (aka a legit excuse to combine virtue signalling and goofing off)...apparently we must grovel to their demands as the world owes so much to, and depends so much on, the American teen

fast forward twenty years, who will have risen, who will have fallen

csdvrx2• 5 years ago

I vouched for your comment, since it talks about a very possible risk: replacement at the low end (and little by little towards the upper end) of WFH techies by other WFH techies from lower cost countries that won't ever think about this union stuff.

China has proved outsourcing is a valid path for growth as people learn the technology little-by-little to do what they need: these game streamers derided by other HN comments will certainly learn how to reinstall Windows and drivers, then how to deal with their fans, then how to make their website (if only to reduce costs/keep more profits) etc

And even if they only learn one of these (say, dealing with fans), personally I'd be happy more than happy to hire them as a community manager if the price is fair.

steve76• 5 years ago

people from around the world hungry to pull themselves up from the bottom...

Foreign countries are poor like the Rolling Stones or Motley Crew are poor. They are actually very wealthy. They see nice peaceful lives as something for fools and cowards.

meanwhile in NYC and Oakland, high school students are on "strike" and walking out of class over bogus covid hysteria (aka a legit excuse to combine virtue signalling and goofing off)...apparently we must grovel to their demands as the world owes so much to, and depends so much on, the American teen

Awful to see people turn their backs on their own. Big tech would be gone without bailouts and cheap consumer credit to buy their junk. Despite all their prestige, they don't do anything. People still die horribly. Their charity is not enough. The problems, such as neurological disease, are much more difficult than they thought. "Disruption" or "don't be evil" didn't work.

We gave them the luxury of a lot of resources while we fought some very bad people and took care of the sick. First chance they get they leave for Cypress and Brazil for people who really do hate them.

fast forward twenty years, who will have risen, who will have fallen

I work from home and am only in tech because of family care-taking. Twenty years will be a sad time for me. Everyone will be gone. I'll be all alone.

Despite that, I kept up on my skills. I managed to have at least some real workplace experience. I have nothing but free time, and I am going to be incredibly angry at and have very little remorse towards the people we trusted with all our wealth and who chose marxists and drug gangs and terrorists over their own and burnt and looted my home.

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

yesenadam• 5 years ago

You've copy/pasted this same comment 7 or 8 times on this page, on every top-level thread! (Ironically, warning about the propaganda of others) Don't do that on HN, thanks. Maybe write your own top-level comment instead of spamming on everyone else's. I guess this falls under "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity."

mensetmanusman• 5 years ago

The image of someone sitting in a shack with VR gear on was thought provoking.

Will the adaptation of this technology accelerate quality of life improvements, or will it be an opiate of the masses who would rather exist virtually than in the real world?

Could this remove political desire for rapid change?

apsurd• 5 years ago

sorry, i can't help but read this as rather tone deaf. People are very complex.

pm902• 5 years ago

Could this remove political desire for rapid change?

No, since in the end you do have to return to the "real" world. Unless we can upload ourselves to the metaverse, a majority of humans will continue to want change in meatspace.

aylmao5• 5 years ago

There is the argument though that you could "entertain" people away supporting a fair cause.

This both by means of propaganda through the content they consume, and by simply giving people something they can consider "good enough". Would people in micro-apartments be happy living in 32m^2 if they didn't have computers / TVs?

lbrito5• 5 years ago

Will the adaptation of this technology accelerate quality of life improvements?

No.

Things favelas need, in order of importance:

1. Jobs

2. Jobs

3. Jobs

4. Decent waste disposal

5. Decent public infrastructure - mass transit, daycare, health clinics, schools, etc.

6. Decent public services - police, postal office, social service workers, etc.

7. Etc

8. ...

...

Infinite - VR gear with SV technobabble, MMORPG, play-to-earn BS.

Source: I am Brazilian.

f00zz• 5 years ago

This country should have never normalized favelas. Just 50 years ago, places like Singapore and Seoul used to have slums that looked a lot like Brazilian favelas. But they invested in public housing and now look like sci-fi cities from the 25th century, while we were singing "quem mora no morro vive pertinho do ceu".

ugh123• 5 years ago

If you haven't already, check out Ready Player One. The book, not the movie.

bigodbiel2• 5 years ago

The opposite, if dystopia sci-fi (or Zuckberg’s Meta) is any sign of it.

paperwasp42• 5 years ago

Wow, this is fascinating. Does anyone know of any mentorship programs that help youth in under-developed countries who are working to get into tech? I would love to participate in that kind of program, but the only ones I've seen are company based (ie: internal internship programs.)

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is propaganda ahead of the upcoming election. The working people of Brazil have suffered tremendously under Bolsanaro’s neoliberal government and the Worker’s Party is leading in the polls. After the recent socialist victories in Chile and Bolivia (following the U.S.-assisted coup), western states will do everything they can to prevent the Worker’s Party from retaking power in Brazil. Expect more of this as the Fall election nears.

Toine• 5 years ago

I cannot take someone who calls himself a "crypto artist" seriously.

chucksmash• 5 years ago

Commenting on crypto in bio is 2022 HN's version of 2014 HN's commenting on site's CSS: "Good article, but black font on white bg makes this literally unreadable for me."

lbrito5• 5 years ago

Such a waste on a great subject.

There's this huge social and economic change in Brazil over the last 10 or so years where dozens of millions of people are acceding to the digital world; broadband (usually 4G) access to the internet is becoming part of their daily lives. This has huge consequences and tons of opportunity. Nubank is a quick example I can think of that knew how to take advantage of this movement and is now a billion-dollar company expanding through all Latam.

But no, instead they decide to spotlight game streamers.

frozenlettuce• 5 years ago

as someone who had a previous carreer in journalism (and also happen to be a Brazilian as well), the media will always portrait the country in a way to make it seem "exotic" in order to gain more attention. that's why you will _never_ see news articles about boring countryside towns

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

vmception2• 5 years ago

but just because you don't respect game streamers doesn't mean that it doesn't have huge consequences and opportunities too.

the people doing that have income and access to capital now whether a bank showed up or not, which is way better than any neobank fintech company can achieve.

in the past, access to capital or electronic payments meant "bank the unbanked", now it doesn't mean that so there's no reason to cling to that goal.

lbrito5• 5 years ago

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with whether I respect streamers or not.

Streamers produce entertainment. That's fine, I'm all for entertainment -- I pay for Netflix, for instance. But it is just entertainment. You can't have a strong economy based on producing entertainment alone. We need jobs that produce real-life value at some point.

In other words, kudos to the dude in the favela making money out of streaming, good for him. It's just _not_ something that can be scaled and applied to the millions of people living in favelas that need a good job (or any job really).

nopenopenopeno9• 5 years ago

This article is obviously propaganda meant to counter the headlines about the Worker’s Party leading in the polls.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MJm08zHWaKA

bigodbiel2• 5 years ago

I’m pretty sure the liberal west would rather see Lula instead of Bolsonaro (who is Latin America’s Trump!). And besides it was not Bolsonaro who was behind the massive corruption scheme organized by the Workers Party (I mean either mensalao or have another sitting duck government, so it’s always lose-lose, but that’s beside the point).

between Lula and Kirchner, I’d rather have YOLO Bukele!

belter2• 5 years ago

As electricity is the favela is free..Wait until the cryptominers move in. Maybe that is the solution to end drugs and violence?

d0100• 5 years ago

Until you see the banners put up in the favela: anyone defending crypto and nfts, etc will receive a beating

This is an atual banner

belter2• 5 years ago

Maybe. But they are already doing it:

https://infograficos.estadao.com.br/focas/por-minha-conta/ma...

ForOldHack2• 5 years ago

Nice. I got a visit from someone in Brazil, who was teaching programming in the San Paulo. I looked at a picture of a bunch of his students, and most of them were women. He was teaching them to solder. I immediately took about a $20, and handed it to him. I think its time we send him a care package.

Garoa Hacker Clube

EL_Loco• 5 years ago

This is, sorry, the same BS that I hear over and over, and over and over. This is alright, it's pretty good that it's happening, but that's the extent of it. Just good, just alright. The need for decent public education at the elementary level is still needed, and is what is really needed. Nothing else will do. Some people, very few, will rise out of poverty by becoming famouse or... never mind, I won't bother. I'm actually tired of these stories highlighting the success of a few people where millions live without good decent basic education and good decent basic healthcare. At this rate Brazil will take a century to get rid of its ghastly inequality levels. People in favelas have had cable tv, internet access, cell phones, etc, for decades now. They still live in gang controlled, gang-war torn places where people, often times kids, getting shot with AK-47 or M4 (gang vs police weaponry) stray bullets is normal. Really, normal. Yeah, some guy having access to the latest Occulus is really changing this reality. Sorry for the rant... but for the past 20 years I haven't been convinced that there's another solution other than having good and decent basic public education for everyone. Really sorry, but as a brazilian, it hurts sometimes.

holografix• 5 years ago

I grew up in Rio de Janeiro right next to a few favelas. I also served time in the Brazilian army (mandatory drafting) for 12 months and was not only surrounded by guys from all types of favelas but was stationed on the border of the Maré Complex.[0]

Trust me. I know a thing or two about favelas.

I could write a book about it but I’ll stick to the topics on the OP’s article and some recurrent topics in the comments, some very unfounded.

The answer to how people below the poverty line can afford technology is simple: donations and debt.

It’s _very_ common in Brazil to accrue debt by buying things “parcelado” or in instalments on your credit card. Next to one one pays the full amount upfront for a meaningful purchase. Wanna buy a smartphone for $USD200? Pay 10x $USD23 over 10 months.

Why are these expensive gadgets not stolen? Of course they are. However not as commonly as one might guess, it’s virtually impossible to commit a crime unseen in a favela. There’s very little to no privacy at all. A mixture of citizen justice (wife beaters for example are routinely bashed by crowds of people) and drug dealers’ willingness to assert authority keeps most stupid thefts in check.

Favela residents will go to surprising lengths to acquire “escape”. In the 1990s it was the parabolic antenna and a tv. With the intro of cheap android devices and 3G it became social media and YouTube. As the price for VR drops it’ll be that.

Much before Facebook there was a social media app that exploded in Brazil, it was called Orkut, it was a reflection of the need for escape.

Also, with the advent of more and more cheap laptops, the promise of easy NFT/Crypto money and a magical job as a coder it’s becoming more and more common to see laptop ownership.

I see what Mr Chantilly is trying to do and it’s easy to dismiss it as a single fart in the galaxy but he helps keep some kids off the streets, gives them a bit of hope. Hopefully they learn more than League of Legends and come out of it speaking a little English and more comfortable using a pc.

What’s needed in Rio and Brazil is a multi-generational educational investment. It’ll never happen of course. Populist demagogues like Lula da Silva will keep being re-elected to “save the poor”. By rubber stamping high school certificates for people that can’t read why buying their votes with free food. Every 8 years or so they’ll rob so much they’ll get thrown out, a moron from the right will be elected, and the left will come back in again to reinstate the good times. Meanwhile a huge brain drain perpetuates.

Now on another note. If you’re a tourist in Rio STAY THE FUCK AWAY from any favelas. If you _must_ engage in poverty zoo/safari make sure you go with a trusted, long time in the market, tour guide and don’t forget at any time that you’re putting your life at risk. At any moment, there could be a police operation or a rival drug dealing gang using weapons of war in your immediate vicinity.

No I’m not exaggerating. I was shot at by AR15 and M16 rifles and returned fire with my shitty Belgium made FAL during an attempted “hit and run” on the barracks I was stationed at where a couple of maniacs on crack will jump the walls and try to get out with ammunition and rifles.

These days a lot of the hardcore drug gangs (or factions as they are often called in Rio) have been displaced by what most people would think of more classic mafia. Protection money, extra “taxes”, money loans, etc. These organisations are mostly comprised of corrupt ex and current policemen and low rank army personnel and therefore much more capable and educated than 90% of the dealers they displaced.

If you want to watch three great but extremely violent movies that explain this shift in power, watch these 3 in this order.

“City of God” - basically how violent drug dealing started in Rio back in the 70s. [1]

“Elite Squad” - the state of the war of drugs in Rio during the 90s. [2]

“Elite Squad 2 - Enemy within” - how it is was in the late 00s [3]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maré,_Rio_de_Janeiro

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_God_(2002_film)

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Squad

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Squad:_The_Enemy_Withi...

Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

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