Apple iPhone charger teardown: quality in a tiny expensive package (2012)

http://www.righto.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html

by retskrad • 5 years ago

379 273 5 years ago

righto.com

MAGZine• 5 years ago

(2012)

smilespray• 5 years ago

I knew I had read this teardown before...

yaseer• 5 years ago

Previously discussed here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171

wyager• 5 years ago

Apple is the only company I’ve ever come across that seems capable of building a phone charger without any noticeable inductor whine.

yepthatsreality• 5 years ago

Also the only company I have purchased a charging cable from that the outer rubber covering wears away in a few months from light use (didn't move it or coil it, just sits there plugged into the wall). Kind of ironic when compared to the high quality charging wall plug.

HPsquared• 5 years ago

I wish they'd make the cable part replaceable.

outworlder3• 5 years ago

Definitely not the only company to suffer from this, but most charging cables from other companies are sleeved with plastic - which seems more durable but will wear out too. Usually they don't feel or look as good, compared to a new Apple cable. Which is, I assume, the reason they keep doing this, to look great at the store.

Problem is, like you say, it can wear away relatively easily, depending on conditions. And they don't look anywhere near as good once dust starts building up.

Now, you can fix this (and any other cable for that matter) with some paracord and optionally some plastic sleeving (techflex or similar) and heat shrink. That's better than throwing away cables. You can also do this for aesthetics with perfectly good cables. Bunch of youtube videos on how to do this (keep in mind, most are sponsored or made by the very companies selling these).

The thing I don't understand is - colorful paracord makes the cables look great. They come in different colors, which would make a lot of sense for Apple. Protected by good plastic, they are pretty much indestructible. At scale, they obviously have access to even better materials with they could use to make their cables look unique.

post_break• 5 years ago

I have a handful of chargers, from anker, aukey, choetech, etc. None of them make a sound. What's incredible is with GaN my 61w macbook pro charger now fits in the palm of my hand.

https://imgur.com/a/tuBcOJd

shaicoleman• 5 years ago

I've only experienced coil whine from OnePlus Dash chargers. I mainly use Samsung chargers, and never had an issue.

smoldesu2• 5 years ago

It's a shame Apple hasn't really made any more strides in the world of chargers recently. I was particularly disappointed by the Magsafe Battery Pack[0] which rather disappointingly couldn't top off my phone from 10%. For $99, I'd hope for a few more mAh to be squeezed in there...

[0] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJWY3AM/A/magsafe-battery...

wlesieutre2• 5 years ago

If you're looking for every last bit of juice out of a battery, inductive charging might not be the best way to get it. I'm sure Apple wants to strike a balance of convenience and enough power for most people without making it any bulkier than necessary.

Product-wise there was a rumor that Apple will be switching to more compact GaN chargers this year, so I wonder if that will come with the Macbook Pro redesign?

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/04/apple-gan-chargers-rumo...

Anker and others have had these for a while, but one imagines the supply chain is trickier when you need to produce tens of millions of them.

skohan• 5 years ago

It would be cool if they also applied this to the Macbook Air chargers. The tiny charger on the M1 Air makes it a pleasure to travel with, and an even smaller one would be incredible.

intsunny• 5 years ago

It's a shame so few companies still make high quality 5V/1A chargers anymore. Apple seems to be the only one left that does so, and with consistent and predictable manufacturing.

5V/1A is great for overnight charging. I've noticed my phone battery lasts so much longer the next day.

jbay8083• 5 years ago

I don't know if it's unique to them, but Sony slow-charges up to 80-90% until about an hour before you set your alarm, then brings you up to 100% before you wake up. Seems to work well and the battery degradation I've seen, after 4 years, has been very minimal.

outworlder3• 5 years ago

This also exists on IOS.

naavis• 5 years ago

OnePlus does the same.

darumderum• 5 years ago

Same for Google Pixel

smoldesu2• 5 years ago

Now, if only they could engineer a cable that doesn't get ripped to shreds within the first few weeks of use...

hellotomyrars• 5 years ago

It is a crying shame how the official Apple cables seem to be almost intentionally designed to be as fragile as possible. Everyone I have ever known with a MacBook MagSafe chargers has a cable that is in tatters and when I see them it genuinely scares me. And when I ask them about it the response is usually akin to “well it still works and they’re expensive to replace”. True enough if you want to replace it with an official one. Admittedly I haven’t seen any of the newer usb-c ones.

The lightning cables tend to hold up a little better but the jacketing still seems extra thin and flimsy. I've actually only owned 2 iPhones (6s and SE2) and one iPad because I'm not someone who cares about having (or spending the money) on a crazy fancy phone but I do prefer iOS. I've bought a few nice third-party MFI-certified cables after the one that came with my 6s disintegrated and haven't bought a new one since. They were a bit expensive, but they're in as good of shape as when I bought them and well worth the upfront cost.

Daneel_5• 5 years ago

They exist. Check out the energizer hardcase ultimate cables, like so: https://cdn0.woolworths.media/content/wowproductimages/large...

I’ve been using them for a few years and they’re virtually indestructible. They have a thin wire braided into the plastic overmold so they’re extremely tough, and the strain relief on the cable ends is about as good as it gets.

fomine32• 5 years ago

I bought AirPods Max but still haven't bought Lightning-3.5mm cable due to this reason and the overprice.

salamandersauce• 5 years ago

At least with Samsung you can turn fast charging off. That's what I do most of the time. I only fast charge if I need it fast.

Antrikshy• 5 years ago

Is there any truth to this? I have noticed battery life vary from 100% depending on if I use a different charger. But it only really happens when I travel, so I chalked it up to different usage patterns or climates.

Daneel_5• 5 years ago

I’ve always charged my phone with 1A chargers in an attempt to preserve the battery. My current phone is an iPhone X I bought at release in Nov 2017, and the battery health is still at 89% according to the battery information page. Subjectively I still feel like I have good battery life too.

LeoPanthera• 5 years ago

Many cheap wireless "Qi" chargers are limited to 5 watts.

fomine32• 5 years ago

The purpose to avoid quick charging is to avoid battery degrading, but Qi is really bad for this due to heat.

matheusmoreira• 5 years ago

The Samsung chargers that came with my phones seem to be high quality as well. Never noticed any problems.

Never seen a detailed teardown of one though. What does everyone think about them?

jmiserez• 5 years ago

IMHO the issue is getting a genuine one. There are a lot of fake chargers around and even reputable retailers get duped by suppliers. So unless you can buy from Samsung directly, I think Apple is the safer bet. You can walk into any of the Apple Stores or order directly and be 100% sure you're getting the genuine product.

zz865• 5 years ago

I've seen many house fires over the last few years that were from chargers. I'd hope risk of bursting into flames is one of the most important things when choosing - it freaks me out. I'd hope the big brands have 0% chance of this - is that correct?

cyral• 5 years ago

This is what sketches me out so much about electronics like chargers by random brands on Amazon (the trend lately seems to be random characters in all caps) that surely have no oversight or conformance to standards.

JamesSwift• 5 years ago

Its been a while but my first macbook charger came close to setting a fire I think. I smelled something as I passed my bedroom, and found that the computer charger was smoking. I unplugged it from the computer/wall and put it in my sink and things were fine, but it definitely freaked me out. I haven't had similar issues since, but every single one of my dozen or more since have frayed _very_ quickly relative to other cords/chargers I use.

tomjen3• 5 years ago

I have seen the result of two mobile chargers blow up in the office - the fire was only prevented by fuses and even so there were black scorch marks on the power outlets. My dads battery charger blew up similarly.

In all cases it was because they were brought cheap on Aliexpres. I haven't seen any chargers sold elsewhere have any issues. The closest thing I got was when I charged my laptop on my bed and had put the blanket over the charger - it didn't fail but it got really, really, really hot.

So based on anecdata: don't buy things things to stick in walls on aliexpress. Also fuses are really nice.

kitsunesoba• 5 years ago

A lot of the chargers and cables you find in gas stations and the like are identical to the AliExpress junk, so it’s a good idea to be wary of those too.

vbezhenar3• 5 years ago

Apple Macbook charger was the only one charger in my life which released magic smoke. I must admit that it was after I soldered new cable and assembled it with duct tape (because it was glued and I broke the plastic casing trying to pry it off), but that does not inspire much confidence in me anyway. I don't know why everyone prays Apple hardware which was so terrible in my life in so many occasions and the only reason I tolerate it is their good software.

llbeansandrice• 5 years ago

You're blaming Apple for a charger that you took apart, soldered, and then put back together with duct tape, Elmer's and prayers?

vvarren• 5 years ago

LOL. This is sarcasm, right?

tintt• 5 years ago

Love it when companies do the smallest things right. A bit sad that a dollar worth of additional components incure 200-300% of the final price markup (comparing Apple vs Samsung chargers)

sMarsIntruder• 5 years ago

2012

andrewmcwatters6• 5 years ago

It might be a lot of profit, but it takes a lot of cash to hire the type of people who would design such a thing, first.

mshockwave• 5 years ago

exactly, estimating the price solely by the sum of its components is like paying programmer by the number of characters they typed

arthurcolle• 5 years ago

Reminds me of this: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Li...

turbinerneiter2• 5 years ago

They make at least 200 million of those a year and they can use the same design easily for 5 years. 1 billion devices. 1 cent per device would allow them to spend 10 million on the development.

Development cost is neglible for this kind of stuff.

JohnJamesRambo• 5 years ago

I think it is pretty much the datasheet reference circuit so the people that designed the chip were already paid for that and that cost is in the bill o

jeffbee• 5 years ago

It's basically the circuit from the L6565 application notes. What sets it apart from the cheap and dangerous ones is those manufacturers start from the reference design and try to throw away things they don't really understand to save 2¢.

ValentineC4• 5 years ago

Apple may make great USB chargers, but they have certainly cut corners and shirked responsibility when it comes to the rubber insulation of their Lightning and (MacBook) MagSafe cables.

I've brought my frayed MagSafe charger, which has degraded to the point that it's been staining everything blue, to an Apple Store Genius Bar multiple times, and the Geniuses (in multiple countries) keep saying that it's my fault that the insulation degrades over time, and that such "wear and tear" is not covered under warranty.

wil4212• 5 years ago

Never had this issue with my late 2011 MBP and my 2017 MBP. Both MagSafe chargers are in tact. The 2011 one outlasted the computer.

dijit• 5 years ago

I've also never frayed an actual Apple cable, but I've had some non-apple cables that didn't last very long.

But, maybe part of that is understanding that the Apple ones suck?

I know they've picked form over function for the strain relief, so I make a subconscious effort not to strain them.

My ex-girlfriends charger didn't last very long, but mine (from 2011) is still quite well maintained, though darkened and discoloured with age.

Ugh, this sounds like I'm saying "you're holding it wrong" but, what I mean is that maybe we have a bit of survivorship bias here and because we tried to keep our cables in good shape.

I highly suspect too, that Apple is using eco-friendly plastics in the cables, which might be part of why they degrade so poorly, even when not strained at the ends.

randomdata• 5 years ago

The charger from my 2009 MBP has its cable perfectly intact; looks brand new. The charger from my 2012 model disintegrated at both ends. They lived similar lives. I have to think the material quality declined somewhere in there.

jng2• 5 years ago

Not to mention the cable deterioration. I recently got an M1 MacBook Air and the USB-C charger is finally designed such that the cable is replaceable. No admission of wrongdoing, blaming the user, but at least an acceptable final fix.

andrewmcwatters6• 5 years ago

I wonder if their new braided cords are in response to the old yellowing plastics.

ryandrake• 5 years ago

Their strain relief is absolutely rubbish, too. How many of us have multiple Apple cables that end up looking like this [1]? They've been doing this for how long, and they can't solve strain relief, which every other cable manufacturer has figured out?

1: https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/40148-77246-000-lea...

Invictus0• 5 years ago

They know, they just don't care.

baybal23• 5 years ago

It's intentional.

There is a business strategy called "planned obsolescence" or simply "planned breakdown"

They would've not DRM chipped a freaking cable if not for them selling them for $20.

Take a look on my experience from a decade ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26134006

I recalled that when in 2015, working for another sourcing shop working for likes of BestBuy/Futureshop/Target/London Drugs I was asked to tear down few chargers for them.
I found that diodes in parallel are surprisingly common around the industry.
This is such a thing which you are pretty much told on day 1 of any electronics course that it is impossible to not to know.
My only thinkable conclusion was that people keep doing it on purpose.

tshaddox• 5 years ago

How many of us have multiple Apple cables that end up looking like this [1]?

Apparently a lot, based on all the Internet comments I’ve seen over the years. But apparently I’m the weird one who has literally never had an Apple or third party lightning cable fail (except a couple in blatant cases of accidental misuse, like getting one stuck in a chair wheel). I’ve thrown several away because they get dirty and gross, and I’ve had a couple that seem to get flakey after a few years (I believe due to damage or corrosion to an exposed pin). But I’ve certainly never had one visibly fray like that!

ksec2• 5 years ago

Yes. People keep saying it hasn't happen or what ever. Or Negative Internet Comments being vocal. I mean for pete sake, just look at the total Lightning Cable certified, manufacturer and shipped annually and compared to the total Active user of iPhone + iPad.

Why would people buy them if they aren't broke. Why is every cable manufacture trying to capitalise on the market if there wasn't a profit.

And instead of ( cough ) doing the right thing and fix it. Apple continues to earn money and commission from their MFi programme.

Cd00d• 5 years ago

Unfortunately, I bet if they added strain relief there would be a myriad of complaints that the cables are too hard to pack/fit in a pocket because the end is too rigid.

Personally, I've never had an issue with this, with 1st or 3rd party lightning cables, or with 1st party magsafe. But, my opinion is a lightning cable is dirt cheap, and people want them in their pocket when worried about battery, whereas a new magsafe charger is expensive and should have more robustness.

outworlder3• 5 years ago

it's my fault that the insulation degrades over time

Yeah, since the cable is not replaceable(at least, anything that's not USB-C), that's a crappy thing to say. It's obviously a widespread problem. The charger is expensive but can be replaced.

I had a frayed Apple Thunderbolt Display cable. Non removable and can't be easily replaced. Had to use some insulation tape at the time because an authorized Apple shop also claimed this was wear and tear not covered under warranty.

kevinherron• 5 years ago

I know this is a common complaint, but not one of my iPhone or PowerBook/MacBook/MacBook Pro cables has ever failed or started to look anything like these complaints.

I don't really think myself as one to "baby" my gadgets, so I'm not really sure what the heck you all are doing to your cables.

vmception• 5 years ago

It could just as easily be environment causing corrosion

Very strange victim blaming going on in this thread, nobody has even attempted suggesting how to avoid it

babypuncher• 5 years ago

Same here. I believe it happens, I see the frayed cables everywhere, but the MagSafe charger from my 2009 MacBook and the lightning cable that came with my iPhone 5 in 2012 are still perfectly fine and sees regular use in my car.

The strain relief on these cables is practically nonexistent, so I won't put the blame squarely on abusive users.

tooltalk3• 5 years ago

If you are using your Macbook like a desktop, you are unlikely to have any problem. If you are on the other hand a mobile user, ie, you move around between school, work, home, coffe shop, etc, yes, it's slightly more than an annoying issue.

The Magsafe chargers were among the worst rated products on Apple's own online store until the company removed all user ratings & reviews in Nov, 2019.

hughrr8• 5 years ago

Not joking but this is entirely user related. In the 15 years I’ve been using the things I haven’t killed a single cable. Not one. The strain relief is not great but if you’re careful it’s absolutely fine and it’s no worse than the other cables out there.

The killers are people who sit there with the cable rammed into their stomach bending it at 90 degree angle when using their phone. On the MacBook chargers it’s usually bashing it constantly or tugging it.

I come from a world of RF cables which cost more than a MacBook and have very limited bend limits. What we have is insanely robust these days. Just be nice to it.

Edit: my daughter had my 2010 MBP until recently which the original charger blew up on. After dissecting it the cable was fine but the main IC had cracked in half. No shorts on the cable grommet. It lasted 11 years! What are you people doing to these things?

systemvoltage• 5 years ago

I have the complete opposite experience aligning with the OP.

Out of all the hundreds of cables I've used, only the white iPhone cables tend to fail in this manner. In fact, not a single white iPhone cable has been spared from this insidious fault.

This is a direct unarguable observation for me - how come so many other cables I own and use in similar manner don't fray?

handrous3• 5 years ago

It's definitely user related. My Apple cables last indefinitely—unless my wife gets ahold of them. Then? Look out.

I'm just careful not to twist them or sharply bend them. If I pack them I usually just very-loosely wad them up and put them in a not-too-full part of a bag. That's the extent of my "care".

[EDIT] However! This does not mean Apple shouldn't make their cables better so they survive whatever people are doing to them to wreck them, since it's evidently very common.

mopsi• 5 years ago

It's wrong to blame users. To please Greenpeace, Apple removed PVC from their cables (maybe only in some markets?). Such cables deteriorated on their own. First they swelled up and turned gray near the MagSafe connector, then turned yellow, and finally became brittle and fell apart in sticky dark green bits.

I have never seen any cable, even under great stress, fall apart like that. It was an obvious chemical change, not physical stress.

I suspect deterioration was either due to heat transmitted from the chassis over the MagSafe connector, or from finger oils, as people touch the cable most near the connector.

mfarris• 5 years ago

I'm extremely careful with my Macbook magsafe charging cables. But in ten years I've had three fray into uselessness.

My current cable has black electrical tape at both the charger block and connector ends. No matter how carefully one loops these things before putting them in a bag, the rubbery material eventually abrades and cracks.

In contrast, I used Powerbooks for 15+ years and never had a single cable go bad.

chrismcb• 5 years ago

So what you are saying is, they are holding it wrong? Sure, if you treat almost anything with kids gloves it will last forever. But that isn't how people use the product. The reality is, the cords from apple are the only ones I've seen break like that.

alfalfasprout• 5 years ago

I agree that for MagSafe cables this is really rare. Granted, I haven't had any issues with the USB-C cables ever since they switched to them when they came out with the Touch Bar MBP.

The lightning cables though... those things seem to break super easily. USB-C vs. USB seems to make no difference-- the strain relief is pretty terrible. Doesn't help that some of these cables get a lot of use (eg; for Apple CarPlay). I've found that it's usually the lightning end that goes not the other end. I wonder if switching the iPhone to USB-C might not help. But at this point it sounds like they're aiming for full wireless.

asdff• 5 years ago

You could literally use one of those bog standard black PC laptop chargers as a weapon and it would be fine. Those things are indestructible. You could repel off a cliff with one. Have you ever seen one frayed or damaged at all? I haven't. Meanwhile, go to any college lecture hall and you will find about half the macbook chargers are covered in tape or frayed. This is "You are holding it wrong" all over again.

Maybe the macbook charger is stronger than your expensive RF cables, but it is far weaker than anything else the competition puts out and that's a huge annoyance, as a mac user myself who gets maybe 3 years out of a given apple cable, be it magsafe charger, lightning cable, or even the wired headphones. It's a distinctly Apple issue, cables in my hands from other manufacturers, even no name junk looking cables, don't have these issues.

BugsJustFindMe10• 5 years ago

if you’re careful it’s absolutely fine and it’s no worse than the other cables out there

That's clearly false, and feeling the need to include "if you're careful" in your statement exposes its falseness. No other major manufacturer makes power cables that chronically disintegrate like this so much that it has become a meme specifically about Apple's cables: https://imgur.com/AVP6riy

Not unsleeved. Disintegrated. It's because the material they use is soft and extremely undurable, unlike literally every other major cable manufacturer.

Apple's cables, and _nobody_ else's, do this when even the slightest amount of angle is applied: https://i.imgur.com/seu0xh8.jpg

Look closely at the circled part. That bulge is caused by extremely soft sleeve material that isn't bonded to the internal wires combined with inappropriately abrupt strain relief. That bulge is why Apple cables disintegrate so often, and even just the downward force of gravity from a laptop being on the edge of a table with the power cord dangling off the side onto the floor is enough to cause it over time.

dirtyid• 5 years ago

The only cables that ever broke for me with less than 12 month use has been Apples, which I subject to same treatment as other devices, frequently Apple devices weren't even used as primary. I've since switched over to universal magnetic adapter heads and braided, magnetic charging cables with 90 degree heads.

stordoff• 5 years ago

I'm unconvinced. I used a MacBook for about three years around 2010, and had to have the charger replaced twice as the cable started cracking near the MagSafe connector. The third charger started falling apart (insulation yellowing and cracking along much of its length) while sat unused in a drawer. I've also had two or three Lightning cables fail in a similar manner until I switched to Anker cables.

I've only ever had one non-Apple laptop charger break in a similar way, and that was after five years of heavy daily use. I've never had the insulation break on a micro-USB or USB-C cable (I used Windows Phones until I got an iPhone 11). If it were entirely due to user behaviour, I wouldn't expect to see such a disparity between Apple and non-Apple cables.

deergomoo2• 5 years ago

When I first got an iPhone 7 (the first one without a headphone jack) I bought a second adapter straight away, because I looked at the one that came in the box and figured it would last about five minutes.

Nearly 5 years later, that same flimsy adapter is still going strong in my car. It’s been plugged and unplugged thousands of times (my fiancée’s phone needs a USB-C adapter—what a fun world we live in), stood on, left on the floor, left in both sub-freezing and summer heat wave temperatures. Still haven’t needed that second one. I’m kind of amazed (but would still prefer a headphone jack).

rrrrrrrrrrrryan• 5 years ago

Strain relief for cables has been a solved problem for decades, but Apple intentionally switched to an inferior design around 2008 [1] for aesthetic reasons.

[1] https://i.imgur.com/yAywo.jpg

passivate• 5 years ago

If Apple's cables were so great fewer people would be buying replacement cables and/or complaining about them. To me, it indicates that they were not designed tough enough to accommodate the average person's use. You can reject it as anecdotal but almost all of my apple cables have frayed at-least once in their lifetime - headphone, charging, lightning/usb. The only one that didn't fray is the power cable to my mac mini.

koyote• 5 years ago

I've only ever had two cables fray and I've also only ever had two Apple products: two iPods that had their cables fray within 2 years of owning them.

I've had countless other mp3 players, laptops and other electronics and have never had a cable fray.

So sure, it might be user related, but that does not change the fact that other manufacturer's cables don't have that issue.

0x38B• 5 years ago

I’ve had the same experience: Apple cables last years for me. The cable that came with my iPad Pro survived years of use at home and abroad.

jbay8083• 5 years ago

Every time this is mentioned, it seems like there are vocal factions insisting that they treat the cables gently but they split and fray, and others insisting that they abuse them but they last forever.

Anecdotally, I've actually seen examples of both.

It's hard to imagine of Apple, but maybe they have high variance in cable quality between batches, or multiple suppliers?

jakear• 5 years ago

We need a form that asks a bunch of metadata and whether you are satisfied with Apple brand cables. Share that widely (somehow?) and look for correlations.

The biggest concern is the self selection bias… if you’re perfectly happy with the cables would you care enough to respond to such a survey?

stavros• 5 years ago

I wonder what country each person is from. Maybe they just make the cables differently in each region.

jacquesm2• 5 years ago

And on their - still - crap keyboards.

nemosaltat2• 5 years ago

My wife used to burn through cables. Now, the first thing I do when I get a new Apple device is add strain relieve. I don’t remember where I learned it, but I use the springs out of empty “click pens” (think Bic). When a pen runs dry, I take the spring out and save it in a small container in the “packet drawer.” When I get a new cable, I wind a spring around each end. It has the added bonus of making the cables easily distinguishable as belonging to us.

snowwrestler2• 5 years ago

This is great! Definitely stealing this idea.

tooltalk3• 5 years ago

can't believe that this is still an issue. Apple Magsafe chargers are great and aestherically pleasing if you never move around and your Macbook is glued to desk all the time. But like most mobile MacBook users, I had similar problems with fraying Magsafe 2 charger cables for my rMacBook Pro from 2012 (non-USB) -- they had to be replaced almost every year, which was insane. One of them also died in flame -- which the Genius quietly replacef (for free) -- but the majority died unceremoniously due to similar fraying cable issues up until 2019. The Magsafe chargers had the lowest user ratings on Apple store website until the company decided to remove all user reviews a couple of years ago.

Needlessly I really had to part away from Apple products -- the first two years were covered by Amex's extended warranty, but after that the yearly "upkeep cost" started going up -- as there were also other issues with faulty GPU and bluetooth/wifi -- and continued until a couple of years ago (largely as a backup laptop).

reader_mode• 5 years ago

To people saying this is caused by use - this is irrelevant - people are upset because they use other comparable cables this way and don't have these problems nearly as often. I've noticed Apple usually has thinner cables - maybe it's that - frankly I'd prefer more robust ones.

BugsJustFindMe10• 5 years ago

It's not just their cables. Their silicone iPhone cases suffer the same fate, sometimes after a year, sometimes after a month, just from moving in and out of your pocket. It looks like this: https://imgur.com/a/TMDdKNs

mmebane• 5 years ago

Ugh, yes. The MagSafe silicone case I bought last fall got nicks in the corners within a few months of use, and they've been slowly but steadily growing ever since. Supposedly the case has a one-year warranty and I can take it in to get swapped out, but I haven't tried yet.

gambiting• 5 years ago

>I've brought my frayed MagSafe charger, which has degraded to the point that it's been staining everything blue

How. I have a 12 years old magsafe charger and it's in perfect condition. Never frayed any cables, not the old 30-pin ones, not the lightning ones, not the new USB-C ones. I just don't get what people are doing with their apple cables to make them fray like this.

tablespoon• 5 years ago

Apple may make great USB chargers, but they have certainly cut corners and shirked responsibility when it comes to the rubber insulation of their Lightning and (MacBook) MagSafe cables.

Apple can be good at function, but their basic mindset is definitely form over function. It seems like they'll compromise anything in an instant if there's some kind of aesthetic payoff (even an extremely minor one).

musicale• 5 years ago

such "wear and tear" is not covered under warranty.

Surprising - this same issue has happened to me multiple times with multiple power bricks but fortunately Apple replaced them every time.

I am very careful with the power bricks, but I think it's a design flaw of the old integrated cable design and strain relief which didn't do what it was supposed to do. As I noted, each time I brought a failed brick in they replaced it under AppleCare.

The old magsafe power brick design would tend to fray and fail at the strain relief points - either the one next to the power brick or the one near to the magsafe connector. I've seen the issue repeatedly for multiple other users as well - users who are not rough with the power brick or the computer.

Fortunately the current USB C power bricks have removable AC and USB C cables so they basically eliminated the issue from the integrated cable failing at the strain release point.

logbiscuitswave2• 5 years ago

Apple cables are pretty notorious for having inadequate strain relief which leads to fraying and cable failure.

It’s a shame that for all the brilliant design within the power supplies that it can get sabotaged by this very Apple-like tendency to push aesthetics (I can just imagine Jobs or Ive demanding this) above all else.

kens11• 5 years ago

It's a surprise to see my blog post from nine years ago (!) at the top of Hacker News. Anyone have questions about chargers?

andrewmcwatters6• 5 years ago

How does one learn to build such things? Most would say school, but I imagine there are particularly good reads out there that are more helpful to those driven enough to be autodidacts.

Thank you for such an excellent and digestible article. Such a pleasure to read.

kens11• 5 years ago

I don't know how to build them, just take them apart :-) But seriously, there are a lot of books on switching power supply design. E.g. Fundamentals of Power Supply Design by Mammano, who is "the father of the PWM controller IC industry".

cogman102• 5 years ago

For something as basic as a charger, an intro to electronics course/book is probably good enough. There's more than enough youtube videos out there about bridge rectifiers and the like.

The charge circuitry here isn't anything too special.

ENOTTY• 5 years ago

Have you torn down any more recent chargers? Curious if quality standards for Apple or other consumer electronics companies have held steady, improved, or gotten worse in the 9 intervening years.

kens11• 5 years ago

I kind of got bored with chargers and found other projects like the Apollo Guidance Computer. My impression is that the quality of super-cheap chargers has increased a bit since people are paying more attention to safety, but I don't have any quantitative data.

deadmutex• 5 years ago

Would love to see this type of post for framework's power adapter: https://frame.work/blog/power-adapter

kens11• 5 years ago

That's a pretty cool GaN (gallium nitride) charger. I'm guessing that it uses the InnoSwitch4-CZ control chip. That chip is interesting because instead of having separate chips on the primary (high-voltage) and secondary (low-voltage) sides of the transformer, they use a single chip that contains circuits for both sides. Internally, the two sides are isolated and communicate via an inductive coupling link. The chip looks very weird because it has a super-wide drive pin.

https://www.power.com/sites/default/files/documents/InnoSwit...

toomuchtodo2• 5 years ago

Would pay to see a Ting electrical system sensor torn down.

https://www.tingfire.com/

xrendan• 5 years ago

Do you know what the big difference for companies to cram enough hardware into the same space to support 20W power like Anker [1] Is this just incremental improvements or is there a technological breakthrough that's enabled this?

[1] https://us.anker.com/pages/uai2020

gh02t• 5 years ago

Some of the new ultra-compact chargers are using switching regulators based on GaN transistors, which are a fairly new technology. These are more efficient and hence can be smaller for the same power envelope. Some of the Anker products use these, not sure about the one you linked.

But similar logic applies even for the ones that aren't using GaN. More efficient parts and/or designs allowing for more and more shrinkage. One of the other big drivers has been manufacturers starting to market monolithic chips that manage all the aspects of power regulation and USB-PD in a single/small number of parts.

kens11• 5 years ago

It's essentially a technological breakthrough. That charger uses GaN (Gallium Nitride) instead of silicon for the switching transistors. Gallium Nitride has various advantageous properties over silicon (higher bandgap voltage, higher breakdown field, faster electron mobility) that make it more efficient in chargers.

jbay8083• 5 years ago

Do you ever encounter chargers that are AC-coupled (like, a transformer at the input), or do they generally all work fine from a DC supply?

kens11• 5 years ago

I don't think anyone has made an AC-coupled phone charger in decades since it's way more bulky and expensive. There might be some consumer electronics that uses a transformer to get a low-voltage AC output, but I can't think of any offhand.

Switching supplies should work from DC, but I don't want to give any guarantees. In particular, for a higher-power supply with power factor correction, I'm not sure what it does if the input isn't AC.

bredren• 5 years ago

Thanks for the previous work. I was most interested in your prose about the old, recalled Apple charger, where design suggested to you someone at Apple was told ~“be sure these never can come out again.”

Most of the action in chargers right now is in 30 watt USB-C. Everyone wants the fasted charge possible.

New iPhones can apparently consume 22 watts plus (via usb-c to lightning and macs and iPads (I believe) can pull the full 30 over an appropriate usb-c.

As a result, when shopping for USB-C chargers, or power strips containing USB-C, I study the supply carefully to make sure they provide this or if not I’ll be happy enough consuming a standard wall plug with a 30W adapter.

These adapters seem to have shrunk in the past two years due to GaN, or Galium Nitride instead of silicon. (I have not read what this means exactly but it is in the marketing copy)

One of the bigger electronics accessory names was the first, but now you see no-name brands offering GaN as well.

To my knowledge, Apple has not introduced GaN-based power adapters but I could be wrong.

Regardless, it would be very interesting to read a study of yours of 30W chargers in this class.

For example, this no name brand is selling two for $20, a very low price point: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098J6LN4Q/

Versus Anker and the other big names which have similar, higher priced versions.

I’m presuming the cheap one linked above is likely to set my home on fire. But maybe not? You would be the one to speculate.

I’d be happy to fund a portion of the purchases needed for such an article. My email is in my profile.

londons_explore2• 5 years ago

GaN is a type of MOSFET, which is the high power transistor at the core of all modern power supplies.

By choosing GaN, the MOSFET can be switched quicker without wasting too much energy as heat. That in turn means all other components (capacitors, inductors) can be made smaller in the same ratio.

The end result is modern GaN technologies allow someone to make a 30 watt power supply in the same physical space that a 5 watt power supply from 2005 took.

shoto_io• 5 years ago

Definitely. I am addicted using the large iPad chargers for iPhones. Is this wrong? I am under the imagination that they are far superior, i.e. charge faster!

Jiocus• 5 years ago

A charger capable of providing higher wattage (energy/second) allows a device to charge faster.

By now, device, USB characteristics and battery care services determine how much is used.

For example, my Xperia uses extra slow charging every once in a while for battery longevity - using the otherwise fastcharging adapter.

Daneel_5• 5 years ago

Fast charging is typically extremely hard on the battery, so I’m the opposite to you - I actively try to use the lowest wattage charger whenever I can (5W).

My understanding, borne out by experience, is that this is far, far kinder to the battery and will significantly increase the lifespan of the battery (in combination with good battery charging and discharging practice).

I have one or two high output chargers for when I need my devices charged in a hurry, but that’s extremely uncommon.

My main phone, an iPhone X bought at launch (Nov 2017), is still at 89% battery health and working well.

Causality12• 5 years ago

It would be interesting to get a real expert's explanation of how the ways the Nintendo Switch violates the USB specifications leads to third party docks sometimes frying consoles, or maybe an explanation of how phone manufacturers can charge batteries at absurd C rates without killing them.

duskwuff2• 5 years ago

third party [Switch] docks sometimes frying consoles

Simple: an early third-party dock for the Switch, made by Nyko, implemented USB-C incorrectly and could deliver up to 9V on the CC1/CC2 (configuration channel) pins. These pins are only supposed to have 5V on them, and a USB-C interface IC in the Switch was frequently damaged by that voltage.

The Switch was fine. The fault was entirely in the dock.

jwatte3• 5 years ago

10C isn't an absurdly fast charge rate if your battery has very low internal resistance. Drone / RC people have been doing that (and more) for years, as their batteries are often made for 50C+ discharge rates.

dudus• 5 years ago

Any good resource for alternative usbc/iphone chargers that don't cost an arm?

I've relied on Benson's reviews in the past for USBC cables, but I'd love to have somewhere a list of expertly curated products.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/profile/amzn1.account.AFLICGQRF6BR...

404mm• 5 years ago

You mentioned the interference with touch screens. Long time ago I accidentally purchased one Apple power supply from Amazon and I assume it was a counterfeit. I remember not being able to control the iphone because touches were misaligned and generally off. Can you please help me understand what (likely) happened?

kens11• 5 years ago

Cheap chargers can interfere with capacitive touchscreens because cheap chargers have a lot of electrical noise in their output. This noise gets coupled to the touchscreen and causes problems. Specifically, the touchscreen controller needs to measure pico-Coulombs of charge which is difficult when there are multi-volt spikes coming out of the charger. The chip can perform various filtering to deal with this noise, but that slows it down. Some touchscreen chips even do frequency hopping to avoid the noise (kind of like a military radio trying to avoid jamming).

Details here: https://www.cypress.com/file/117656/download

ysleepy• 5 years ago

Any thoughts on the ikea koppla usb power supply?

I sort of stuck with it for the price/performance/safety.

Here is a teardown (might be dated): https://lygte-info.dk/review/USBpower%20Ikea%20Koppla%20UK.h...

kens11• 5 years ago

From that teardown, it looks like a solid charger with an unchallenging design. (I.e. they didn't try to make it small.) I think it uses the iWatt 1699 control chip: https://www.dialog-semiconductor.com/products/acdc-conversio...

germinalphrase• 5 years ago

Any interest in looking into ebike chargers? Particularly on the diy side, there are a bunch of folks out there banging up battery packs in their basements and getting shocks, starting fires.

zamalek2• 5 years ago

Audiophiles swear by Apple chargers as a power source. It's a needlessly clean power source. I was having extreme issues with noise from my DAC, to the degree of clearly audible at normal listening levels. Apple sorted that right out.

The charger is the only product I will buy from Apple. It's complete and utter overkill, you'll never have problems for a very minor premium (absolutely speaking, not relatively).

dep_b3• 5 years ago

Do you have some sources for this? A quick google search turned up nothing

stefan_• 5 years ago

What you are experiencing is not "power supply noise", but most likely ground loop noise. The fix is not to shill Apple power supplies, which as switching power supplies are still extremely noisy, but to use proper connectors and signalling.

MawKKe• 5 years ago

Heh. If I plug an iPad charger in the "wrong way" (symmetric EU socket), I observe massive interference/hum via the 3.5mm audio jack. The hum disappears if I rotate the plug, or touch the metal backplate of the iPad.

amelius4• 5 years ago

Audiophiles swear by Apple chargers as a power source.

Are these the same audiophiles that swear by gold plated contacts for every connector?

iampivot• 5 years ago

Can you talk a bit about the tingling sensation from touching the aluminium case of a macbook pro, when using a non-earthed cable with the power supply? With the latest macbook pro M1s, apple no longer include an earthed cable in the box (with the exception of the three pronged adapter in the uk).

amelius4• 5 years ago

Insufficient isolation between input and output. Perhaps you should try a medical-grade power supply.

https://www.seacomp.com/resources/medical-vs-commercial-powe...

nomel• 5 years ago

Here are some good answers about it [1], but it's current leakage from the mains voltage making its way onto your chassis.

You end up with upwards of 60V sine wave on your MacBook case, compared to the relatively grounded you (capacitively to your surroundings). This voltage creates some electrostatic force to attract your finger to the surface enough that you can feel a change in friction. The Disney Research Lab made a neat touch display surface that used the same effect (and higher voltage) to modify the friction and "texture" feeling for a haptic touchscreen [2].

1. https://la.disneyresearch.com/publication/teslatouch-electro...

2. https://la.disneyresearch.com/publication/teslatouch-electro...

baybal23• 5 years ago

It's a typical Delta power supply.

They make good quality power supplies if you have a buck.

https://www.deltaww.com

matrix• 5 years ago

For anyone interested in these - their consumer chargers are here:

https://www.myinnergie.com/us

Unfortunately, their "buy now" button links to Amazon; I don't trust Amazon not to sell me a counterfeit that will burn my house down.

greggturkington• 5 years ago

Can you believe a new iPhone 5 only included a 5W USB-A power adapter?!

Compare that with an iPhone 10 5 years later, which came with a beefy 5W USB-A power adapter.

samatman• 5 years ago

That's infinitely more powerful than the charger which comes with the iPhone 12!

Daneel_5• 5 years ago

I mean, that’s the healthiest charger for the phone. I know you’re trying to say “give me a stronger charger”, but for others this is actually a selling point - I don’t want strong chargers, I want a well built weak one that preserves my battery.

saiya-jin• 5 years ago

I know there are plenty here who agree with you, but for at least 98% of the population its just a crappy old technology by company who is charging too much over it. They don't understand technical details and they don't care. A phone who can charge in 30 mins vs 2 hours is a major selling point though.

Most people change phones every 3-4 years due to many reasons, physical attrition of hardware being one of it, battery being another, overall hardware not being good enough (speed, capacity) being another.

Almost nobody cares if they can save 5% of battery over that time by charging slowly. Heck, I know I don't. It would be a different proposition if one would lose say 50% of capacity, but even folks in this thread confirm that's not the case for same hardware.

GuB-42• 5 years ago

You can get the best of both words with good power management. Fast charging can be disabled on my phone. I also know some laptops where you can limit the charge to ~70%, intended for case where it is always plugged in and you rarely need the battery. Some phones try to be smart, taking into account the time you set up the alarm for instance.

The idea is to have fast charging for emergencies and slow charging for regular overnight charging.

And the thing you plug into the wall isn't actually a charger, it is a power supply. The real charger is in the phone, and that's the one that decides if it needs fast or slow charging, taking into account what the power supply can deliver.

lmilcin2• 5 years ago

(...) roughly 4mm of distance is required between the two circuits. (As I discuss in Tiny, cheap, dangerous: Inside a (fake) iPhone charger, cheap chargers totally ignore these safety rules.

Which is why I immediately destroy any charger at my home that is suspect to not come from a brand name producer.

Is it really worth to risk your life for couple of dollars?

Electronics is my hobby and I also happen to design some switch mode power supplies for AC. I can't overstate how difficult it is to design a good safe SMPS. Comparing to my other projects it seems it is at least 20-50 times harder to design a dedicated SMPS than the rest of the circuit, even with a lot of specialized literature on the matter to help me out (meaning I don't create my own topologies, I just learn the ones that are well described in the book). And that for applications under 100W.

treesknees• 5 years ago

Is it really worth to risk your life for couple of dollars?

This has been my thought ever since the news came out about AmazonBasics products like chargers and cables catching fire and melting. I've since started springing for the more expensive Apple-branded chargers and cables instead. Saving $15 but burning my house down... not worth it!

markus_zhang2• 5 years ago

Is there a way to hack this thing?

turbinerneiter2• 5 years ago

You might be able to influence the output voltage somewhat by dwindling with the passives, but there is no code running anywhere that you could manipulate.

markus_zhang2• 5 years ago

Thanks. I heard the battery is "smarter" in the sense that it has some chips.

GIRLHAKCER• 5 years ago

Wow

londons_explore2• 5 years ago

I actually think that while this charger is acceptable, it is pretty disappointing from Apple.

A neat design wouldn't use a bridge rectifier on the input side - it would use synchronous rectification (more efficient, substantially smaller because no big passives are required for input smoothing, and nicer on the electrical grid because it's actually possible to design it to deliberately absorb harmonics generated by other devices in your home).

Next step would be to use a much higher switching rate (eg. 3Mhz). Use some high performance MOSFETs to reduce switching losses. Suddenly that transformer becomes the size of a grain of rice and the capacitors can all be surface mount. The whole thing can now be lighter, smaller, cheaper, and less environmentally impactful while maintaining the same performance.

Apples design here was electrically boring and very much not pushing the envelope of what is possible.

quwert95• 5 years ago

Does anyone know of a teardown like this for more recent chargers (ie. the "top rated Amazon chargers" or "Best Buy Specials")?

BOOSTERHIDROGEN• 5 years ago

https://www.chongdiantou.com/

rokweom• 5 years ago

https://lygte-info.dk/

rconti• 5 years ago

[2012]

I've replaced all my mini cube iPhone chargers with Anker GaN IQ3 nano chargers that do 18w from the same size.

sorry_outta_gas• 5 years ago

depends on your definition of quality they still break on me often

dang• 5 years ago

A couple of past threads:

Apple iPhone charger teardown (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091 - May 2020 (71 comments)

Apple iPhone charger teardown: quality in an tiny expensive package - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171 - May 2012 (167 comments)

FridayoLeary• 5 years ago

I was surprised to realize how enormous Apple's profit margins must be on these chargers. These chargers sell for about $30 (if not counterfeit), but that must be almost all profit.

jug• 5 years ago

I guess that’s where they need to be for their current market valuation? But this article also illustrates why I pay this premium over third party budget stuff.

varispeed• 5 years ago

quality in a tiny expensive package (2012)

And then I see cheap Chinese capacitors. Probably other passive elements are as cheap as possible.

soheil• 5 years ago

The primary circuit board has a grounded metal shield

How can it have a ground when the charge is a two-pronged plug?

SavantIdiot• 5 years ago

It cracks me up that they still used TO-092A xtor packages. After all that compaction they couldn't use a smaller package? I know, I know: its probably because there isn't a smaller package without going to surface-mount, and it probably has higher current & thermal capabilities. I just thought it was funny to see those to big plastic cans in there.

logbiscuitswave2• 5 years ago

This was one of the first posts by Ken that I saw and it got me hooked.

He does such a great job at making tear downs like this interesting and accessible.

He has a great companion article with a cheapo charger for comparison: http://www.righto.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and... and a comparison of an Apple MacBook charger and a knock-off: http://www.righto.com/2015/11/macbook-charger-teardown-surpr...

Really fascinating stuff.

shreddit• 5 years ago

The ones sold in Europe are not nearly as small as these, that’s because the last time i went to the us i bought one of these little cubes, although i can not use it. But i really like their design.

hoseja• 5 years ago

... about $1 extra cost...

I really don't get why electronic components are all made from the cheapest-possible (sometimes cheaper) stuff. When have all engineers been indoctrinated that skirting safety envelopes is a sign of genius design?

yangminded• 5 years ago

And that is why I buy Apple chargers to power my Arduinos and Raspberry Pis.

qwerty4561272• 5 years ago

I am obsessed with hardware longevity and want all my hardware (smartphones included) and their batteries to stay fit for as long as theoretically possible.

I have also noticed that the faster you charge a phone the sooner you have to re-charge it.

I don't care how long does it take to charge. How much does the charger cost doesn't matter much either.

Are iPhone chargers the best choice for me?

As of today I just use the cheapest chargers I can find because they are 1a and less.

perryizgr82• 5 years ago

Most phones will let you control the rate of charge. So you can use a fast charger but still charge at regular old USB speed. Which is 1A @ 5V I think.

qwerty4561272• 5 years ago

Hmm. I have never seen such a feature. You mean most modern phones, do you? I wouldn't buy a phone which is not in this[1] list and most of them are old. My actual phone is about 8 years old (and each year makes me more proud :-)) and I still am totally satisfied (except with its GPS function - it's rather slow to find the satellites, but I don't need it often).

Nevertheless, this is interesting to know. I actually wondered how are people supposed to avoid killing their batteries as slow chargers are disappearing from shops. Which seems a serious problem today as most of the modern phones don't even let you change the battery without going to an authorized service shop.

[1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

Reason0772• 5 years ago

"quality in a tiny expensive package"

Pretty much sums up all Apple products.

hda111• 5 years ago

Since it has a green PCB I doubt Apple designed it itself but rather let someone else do it for them. Looking at AirPods Pro and AirPort Extreme teardown one can see that every Apple PCB is black.

ChrisArchitect• 5 years ago

2012 post, come on. Anything new since then?

Here's discussion from just a year ago when this was still old:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091

Apple iPhone charger teardown: quality in a tiny expensive package (2012)

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