Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/12/berlin-bike-revolution/548297/

by mpweiher • 9 years ago

240 177 9 years ago

eesmith• 9 years ago

"While a few decades ago, many Berlin streets seemed eerily traffic-free for such a major city"

Let's see, a few decades ago = at least 30 years = no later than 1987. The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. At that time, West Berlin was an enclave of West Germany located inside of Easy Germany.

So, perhaps that had something to do with the traffic in Berlin?

ben_w3• 9 years ago

While it would be great to see Berlin copy the UK cycling capital — Cambridge is brilliant in that regard — Berlin isn’t particularly bad. I’m looking for work in Berlin at the moment, and Berlin is less busy per square meter than any UK city I’ve been to (other than Ely, which shouldn’t count as a city).

Berlin traffic isn’t perfect, but on the other hand it is also more lawful than UK traffic, and less intimidating than CA traffic.

crummy• 9 years ago

(Off topic but we're hiring in Berlin at Sauce Labs - email me if you want to know more!)

ben_w3• 9 years ago

Thanks for letting me know, however I just checked your website and I’m not a fit for any of your openings. (I’m looking for iOS… and asking myself if I should change track again to find work).

sharpercoder• 9 years ago

I was in Valencia (Spain) a few weeks back. This city is one of the most ideal cities I have been to for cycling; flat, perfect climate, riverbed running right through the middle of the city, spacious roads and high density. One of the inhabitants told me they dedicated cycling lanes a year back or so. That was visible: They had painted bicycle lanes right over roads & pedestrian areas. I guess when the Valencian people start to see how much fun cycling ones life makes, Valencia will become the cycling capital of the world soon enough.

Berlin has quite some traits for a good cycling city as well. A flat geography really helps here, along with a willing population.

fluxic• 9 years ago

Just chiming in to say Valencia is LOVELY!!!! Such a fantastic, cheap, beautiful, beachy place to be.

toomuchtodo3• 9 years ago

Is it someplace you'd recommend living for a few months? From the US, always looking for new, interesting places to work remote from.

arximboldi3• 9 years ago

Spain has been very much a car centric country but over the last years few cities have been pushing a transformation to become bike friendly. The biggest transformation I have witnessed is in Seville: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cycli...

lobster_johnson• 9 years ago

Having wide streets where you can set side space for bicycle lanes also helps. After WW2, Berlin was in ruins, and the city was never built up to the density of many other European cities. The Soviets, in particular, were particularly fond of wide, open spaces. (The earlier Prussian kings also liked wide avenues they could march their soldiers through.) Berlin is definitely a great city to bike in.

brute• 9 years ago

The major factor here is Berlin's street width, which was chosen to be 22m by law in 1862 for fire safety reasons, much wider than other german cities. Consequently during WW2, Berlin proved to be a problem for allied incendiary bombs. At some point they were even building a to scale model city in the desert (Dugway Proving Ground) for testing various methods of igniting fire storms.

Berlin, however, would “prove more difficult than most other German cities”, the leading incendiary expert Horatio Bond avowed before the national commission for armament research of the USA. “The building quality is higher, and the single blocks are better separated from each other.” As the tests at the Dugway Proving Ground showed, is “was hardly to be expected that the flames would jump unhindered from one building to the next”.[1]

[1] http://www.principality-of-sealand.ch/pdf/sealandbrief0503e....

matt40772• 9 years ago

Berlin Actually survived the war relatively intact, compared to, for example, Cologne.

Even in places where every second house was destroyed, street layouts remained unchanged. Mitte, Kreuzberg. Neukölln, Wedding: all These suburbs are mostly unchanged. Karl-Marx-Street was renamed twice, but was originally build at today’s width.

One of the problems with biking in Berlin are actually the cobblestone roads in many residential areas.

jacquesm5• 9 years ago

I guess when the Valencian people start to see how much fun cycling ones life makes, Valencia will become the cycling capital of the world soon enough.

Beijing and Amsterdam can probably make a better claim to that title. Valencia is on the right track though and I hope their project succeeds and will last.

flexie• 9 years ago

Or Copenhagen where 62 percent bike to work, 21 percent take metro, bus or train, 8 percent walk, and only 9 percent drive a car to work.

kazinator2• 9 years ago

If the cycling commute is flat, it has to be long to get decent exercise, because you have to apply a flat-out effort and you cover a lot of ground. If my bike commute were flat, I'd prefer to be some 14 miles from work rather than the current 7. Or else I would have to run it (more often).

To me, what would make an area ideal for cycling (if it has good roads and such) is: dry climate. No rain, no snow.

aaron-lebo2• 9 years ago

7 miles isn't much on a bike, but anyone riding 14 miles 5 days a week should be in great shape.

14 mph is a decent clip, whereas 20 mph is constant exertion. I'd hate my commute to be a hour long both ways and at 14 miles, that's what the average person is going to hit.

adrianN3• 9 years ago

Most people don't cycle to get exercise, they cycle to get to where they need to be.

kqr2• 9 years ago

People often seem to miss this. In many ways, cycling is a terrible form of exercise precisely because it is such an efficient mode of transport.

dirktheman• 9 years ago

I'm Dutch. The Netherlands is one of the most bicycle-dense countries in the world, and we have a, well, less than ideal climate to say the least. Rain, wind or snow really isn't that much of an issue when you have the right outfit.

ThankYouByeBye2• 9 years ago

you can ride fat bike

kayoone3• 9 years ago

My bike commute is only 5km one way, but it helped me a lot losing 10kgs of weight and developing good overall fitness and even some visible leg muscles. I try to go at a fast pace though, i agree that when you drive normally there is not a lot of effort involved on a 20 minute commute.

piva002• 9 years ago

But cycling commute isn't about exercising, it's about commute. I live in Stockholm, it's cold, it's wet and not as flat as Berlin, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, etc., even then I bike to work even during winter because it's fun and a good way to get around the city, the exercise is just a bonus for me after biking 30+ km in a day because I had to go places.

ndh2• 9 years ago

If you want more exercise, don't run red lights. Not trying to accuse anyone, just saying. The stop-and-go makes it much more exhausting.

justinator3• 9 years ago

It's crazy to think: you design a city for people, rather than cars, and the city becomes more livable.

lemoncucumber• 9 years ago

You can pry my 8 lane roads and acres of parking lots surrounding a mall full of chain stores from my cold, dead hands /s

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6• 9 years ago

No one in history has designed a city for cars. People driving cars over other people perhaps, but for a subset of people regardless.

AI is nowhere near the level of needing space.

a_bonobo• 9 years ago

Many European cities are a bit lucky in that regard, they are much older than US or Australian cities. The European cities are built on top of plans that were made for pedestrians and horse carriages, with city walls and small streets.

Muenster, for example, has a beautiful bike circle around the inner city because that's where the city walls used to be. US and Australian cities are much younger and don't have such 'restraints' to work with, so they become car heavy automatically.

jacquesm5• 9 years ago

One nice example of a city that did not have that but where things worked out wonderfully is Helsinki, there is a bike path through a large chunk of the city on what used to be a railroad. It's totally out of the ordinary traffic recessed in the ground so out of the wind (not unimportant that far North).

jopsen2• 9 years ago

That makes no sense... US cities are super lucky to have such wide streets.

If they WANTED to they could easily make dedicated bus and bike lanes that are safe.

It easy they have so much space. European cities have to almost ban cars, to make room for bikes...

This is a political issue, where Americans choose not to do something.

SirLJ2• 9 years ago

I hope they install a lot of showers...

goldesel• 9 years ago

Stinking is actually a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle. With the right kind of cycling infrastructure, riding a bike in flat terrain is a low intensity exercise to which the body soon adapts. It can become quite relaxing and meditative. Exemplary video of cycling in the netherlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb0QjASuuqI

spodek• 9 years ago

Plus cars stink.

ekianjo5• 9 years ago

Stinking is actually a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle.

any source for this extraordinary claim?

sliverstorm3• 9 years ago

Also somewhat a consequence of diet. I find I generally smell much better when I'm eating well.

analog31• 9 years ago

I don't know where you live, but most of the cities in northern Europe have less extreme climate (on both ends, hot and cold) than a large swath of the US. I live in the US and am extremely lucky that I don't sweat a lot for some reason, and am able to ride my bike to work without stinking up the joint. And I adjust my schedule a bit, so I get to work before it starts getting hot.

But our summers are certainly hotter than Copenhagen and Amsterdam. I didn't look up Berlin.

jdietrich4• 9 years ago

Seville in Spain is rated as one of the 20 most cycling-friendly cities in the world. Their climate is roughly comparable with much of the southern United States.

http://copenhagenize.eu/index/14_seville.html

jdietrich4• 9 years ago

Cycling doesn't need to be any more strenuous than walking. It keeps you much cooler than walking, because the higher speed creates a windchill effect if you're lightly dressed. People from non-cycling cultures tend to think that cycling is inherently hot and sweaty, but that's completely inaccurate. It's perfectly comfortable if you ride at your own pace rather than busting a gut in an effort to keep up with traffic.

icebraining• 9 years ago

Maybe if you're a good cyclist, but I can't cycle uphill as slowly as I can walk and still maintain good balance.

saryant• 9 years ago

I started biking to work last summer and after a few weeks my sweat levels went way down to the point where I'd just change shirts and put on a bit more deodorant when I got to work and it was fine.

If you wear shirts that breathe a bit and use a pannier instead of a messenger bag it's not so bad. I use REI hiking shirts and leave the top two buttons undone to keep the air moving.

Coming home can be a bit worse because it could be >90 degrees but in the cool morning it's fine.

Fortunately we do have showers though. Some of my coworkers have 20+ mile bike rides into work and they really need them. Mine's only 3.5 miles.

novaRom• 9 years ago

Normally temperatures in south Germany (Stuttgart, Munich) are between +10 and +25 Celsius in summer and between 0 and +10 in winter. The climate is mild and humid without strong winds. There are much fewer sunny days in comparison with US, so we certainly do not sweat while cycling :)

dbolgheroni• 9 years ago

Meanwhile, in São Paulo, the mayor is trying very hard to remove bike lanes already built, and are passing laws that make it a lot harder to build new ones.

sevensor2• 9 years ago

Why on earth? An aunt who used to live there tells me the air pollution is quite bad -- one would think reducing emissions by encouraging cycling would be a priority.

ufo• 9 years ago

Those bike lanes were put in place by the previous mayor and the new mayor is trying to undo things the previous mayor did. Basically, stupid politics.

(To be fair, the bike lanes weren't perfect but they should have been improved instead of removed)

thomasfortes• 9 years ago

The previous mayor was from PT, a kinda left-wing party that a good part of the middle class loves to hate (there are a few good reasons, but the hate at this point is insane), so the actual mayor won with promises to revert the policies.

Combine that with the fact that São Paulo is a city where people seems to love cars more than their relatives and have an upper class that oppose bike lanes in front of their houses because "people that ride bikes aren't the kind of people that we want in our neighborhood" and you have a recipe for disaster.

These people (the upper class, not the middle) are also against subway expansion because it would be easier for people from the poorer regions of the city to come to their neighborhoods.

It's a mix of car loving, a party hate and prejudice that makes São Paulo a complete chaotic city when we're talking about transport.

I love São Paulo, have a lot of friends there, but almost everything that is being done right now seems to be in the opposition of the public interest.

megaman222• 9 years ago

Berlin is, in my experience, an incredibly walkable city. Get a U-Bahn pass, and you can go almost anywhere in an hour; with their double ring and relatively dense stops, and Prussian train, and even bus scheduling, it's a breeze. Especially compared to the shitshow in American cities.

arximboldi3• 9 years ago

The U-Bahn is good but many of the lines are quite old and the connections often too sparse, specially compared to other european capitals like Paris or Madrid. There are often very close areas that take surprisingly long to travel between without a bike. I always find traveling between northern Neukölln to the middle of Friedrischain somewhat annoying unless you are very close the ring or just grab the bike and cut through Gorli. There are lots of examples like that.

Plus I find the U-Bahn rather expensive (esp. considering how little investment it seems to get) with very few buying options (only bulk-ticket is 4 rides which saves you very little) and the ticket machines seem to be broken half of the time and the ones that work are slow as hell (takes like 3 minutes to print the damn tickets).

The only plus I see (e.g. compared to Madrid) is that the stations are not very deep underground and often over the ground so it helps people that are mildly claustrophobic.

megaman222• 9 years ago

I'm coming from Boston, and wilder areas where mass transit is atrocious if available, so Berlin is amazing. My other experiences in Paris or Amsterdam are inferior to Berlin.

RcouF1uZ4gsC• 9 years ago

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying.

What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0].

In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to worry about them getting too cold or hot or wet. You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle). The car can easily carry all the diapers and baby food you need for an outing as well as changes of clothing for inevitable accidents kids make.

Bikes are awesome for adults without children, cars seem better for those with children, especially young children.

I wonder if this push to bike friendliness is driven in part by the changing demographics of more adults without children.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...

CalRobert• 9 years ago

For what it's worth, I just had a kid and am contemplating whether I want to keep living in a cycling-hostile place. I would like my kid to be able to ride a bike without dying.

fovc• 9 years ago

If that were the case you'd expect that families with children in those cities wouldn't be bike users. In Amsterdam at least they very much were. I lived next to a primary school where 90+% of parents would show up on bikes to pick up their kids. You can easily transport 3 kids in a bakfiets

scythe2• 9 years ago

That's not statistically valid reasoning. If biking vs driving makes some people not have kids, but not everyone, then in a city where driving is prohibitively expensive you'd still expect most parents to be on a bike. That's because the others didn't switch to cars, they didn't have kids, or they moved. I don't know what riding with one of those bike chariots is like, but being confined to a bike already sucks, I assume dragging a kid around behind you is even worse.

kiliantics• 9 years ago

I have family in Germany and they have two young children. They own a car but they only use it occasionally for trips. Their daily commute involves one of the parents transporting children to or from kindergarten using a bicycle trailer that both children can sit in. They do this year round and it works out fine. It works out a lot better, in fact, because cycling is much faster than sitting in rush hour traffic.

imjasonmiller• 9 years ago

Those trailers are very common in The Netherlands! Weather doesn’t play that much of a role, from what I know, neither does the fertility rate as cycling has been popular here when it used to be much higher, decades ago.

It is very much a cultural thing in my experience. Nearly all children go to primary and high school on their bicycles, by themselves, although the trips for high schoolers are often < 8 km I would guess.

I think that touches on why it might not be as popular in other countries, as other countries might not be as flat or lack city planning that takes cyclists into account, e.g. dedicated bike lanes.

It’s also an excellent choice for a country of our size that has limited space, as bicycles make much better use of it than cars.

toomuchtodo3• 9 years ago

This is how I plan on transporting my two kids by bicycle when they're a bit older (electric cargo bike): https://yubabikes.com/

Disclaimer: no affiliation/promotion/etc

SirLJ2• 9 years ago

Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US

jacobolus2• 9 years ago

I have a 1.5 year old child, and I must disagree. Car-centric places are horrible with a child (or really anyone who isn’t a healthy ~20–65 year old adult who can afford a car). To get anywhere you need to pack all your stuff into a car, get the child in and out of a carseat, unpark and park, walk around in a big parking lot, etc. Every trip has huge overhead. It gets even worse when there are multiple kids involved.

Living in a walkable neighborhood with access to transit is so much nicer. I just pick the kid up in my arms and go out the door, and many destinations are a few minutes walk, all of which is time spent actively moving and being part of the outside world. In a couple years, if I need to drop him off somewhere within bike distance (but far enough away that walking is less practical), it would be great to use a child seat or little cart attached to a bike.

It’s going to be an even bigger difference when the kid is older, and can walk around and take transit and engage with the city by himself, instead of being completely isolated and dependent and needing to be chauffeured and chaperoned by an adult on every trip.

abalashov• 9 years ago

It’s going to be an even bigger difference when the kid is older, and can walk around and take transit and engage with the city by himself, instead of being completely isolated and dependent and needing to be chauffeured and chaperoned by an adult on every trip.

This. I don't think most Americans realise how detrimental and significant this often-overlooked aspect of average middle American suburban life is.

nihonde3• 9 years ago

Anyone who lived in Japan knows about “mamachari” bikes, and a diminutive young mother with two kids and groceries on her bike. Not to mention all the senior citizens who ride everywhere as well. Electric-assist bikes, being able to ride on sidewalks or dedicated lanes, and safe parking help make it possible.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXnCu-KMdY

ekianjo5• 9 years ago

Poor example though. There is plenty of car traffic in Japan about everywhere, and parking yout bike is not free at all. And cyclists are super dangerous here, not respecting any rule on the road. I was almost hit by bikes going in the wrong direction several times. And mamachari riders are no exception. they speed up on the sidewalks without any regard for pedestrians.

soperj• 9 years ago

Sounds like you've never been there. I spent some time right outside Amsterdam (in Haarlem), and you can easily get a couple kids and a baby on a bike(in a bakfiets). You can easily carry all the diapers and baby feed you need for an outing in a stroller which is all you really need because nearly everything you could want is within walking distance.

-had 2 kids at the time(nearly 3 and 6 months), as well as cousins in town(same age) that we took on the bike as well, not that we used it that much, mostly to go out to another town like Zaanvoort on the coast (11 km away) or to the train station if we were going somewhere further.

Also, every single kid of school age got themselves to school by bike, so the whole pick up/drop up culture of North America wasn't happening.

arximboldi3• 9 years ago

Agreed. Berlin is a very child-friendly city, and the biking is part of it. It is very common for parents to carry their kids in the bike. And heavy traffic makes the city less child-safe, not more.

airza• 9 years ago

It's an almost daily occurrence to see a parent riding their bike full of kids in Leiden or Amsterdam.

AndyMcConachie• 9 years ago

As a Dutchie with no kids I must kindly disagree with you. Go to any Dutch city and you will see tons of parents riding on bikes with their kids. It's common to see 1 adult and 2 kids on the same bike.

ekianjo5• 9 years ago

Go to any city thats not flat and you will soon find bikes to be unpractical for about everything.

jacquesm5• 9 years ago

That's why we've got these:

https://www.christianiabikes.com/

https://www.babboe.nl/

They're so common that during the morning rush hour it seems like every other bike is a 'bakfiets'. They're a direct descendant of the old cargo delivery bikes from the previous century. There are two wheeled versions as well and then there are trailers to put behind normal bikes (though I don't like those much, because cars tend to overlook them due to their height).

adrianN3• 9 years ago

If people with children in their cars made up a majority of traffic that would be a good argument. Most trips are made solo though. Replacing at least some of those trips with cycling is better for everybody: the cyclists health, the environment, the children playing on the streets.

tatami• 9 years ago

And for drivers! Less cars on the road makes it better for those who are left.

rconti3• 9 years ago

You'll see this kind of arrangement all over Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Hell, even here in the SF Bay area I see (almost daily) a couple of parents on my bike commute route riding home with bicycles with those long racks on the back that can hold 2-3 kids, with a helmet dangling from the rack as they've obviously just completed the school run.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/7c/7a/917c7a6c31acf962cb21...

Someone• 9 years ago

If you have >2 children, chances are the oldest can ride his/her own bicycle (especially if the infrastructure provides lots of safety)

Also, see https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/children/

lagadu2• 9 years ago

I take it you've never been any significant amount of time in Copenhagen. There a bicycles for transporting children that are made to transport up to two children, usually up to 3-4 years old, after that they can cycle themselves so I've never heard about it being an issue because the eldest will usually be old enough to cycle.

edit: I guess you could increase that to 3 children if you attach a bike trailer, but those aren't very popular here.

sqren• 9 years ago

You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle).

I see this everyday in Copenhagen:

https://christianiacykel12.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/image...

megy2• 9 years ago

When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles.

Cars are almost always more convenient for most people, with or without children.

_Codemonkeyism4• 9 years ago

Berlin is a very bad place for cyclists right now.

The governing SPD is a car maker party, always was and always will be.

Working in Wedding near my work where the SPD governed since forever there is a bicycle lane on the pavement but unmarked for a decade with countless run ins with pedestrians.

After doing nothing for 50 years there was a referendum and the SPD did a 180 and painted themselves as a cyclist party.

Some - funny - images of the bike situation in Berlin

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/mediacenter/fotostrecken/berlin/g...

delackner• 9 years ago

I’m curious if you have seen more about the plans the article discusses? Talk of proper physical segregation of bike traffic using bollards sounds very nice. Copenhagen’s concrete curb separating bike lanes from car lanes is the gold standard I hope to see more places adopt.

_Codemonkeyism4• 9 years ago

Copenhagen is a dream, whenever I'm there I admire the bicycle infrastructure.

Berlin often cites Copenhagen for their plans, but call me a pessimist, as this would mean taking away streets from cars, I can't see a lot of this happening. It was mostly to get the SPD voted into power.

rorykoehler4• 9 years ago

Half the drivers in wedding think they're acting in Tokyo drift. You can quite safely take back roads however to get anywhere in Berlin.

_Codemonkeyism4• 9 years ago

A lot of streets in the old-east are cobblestone :-(

Fnoord3• 9 years ago

The public transport in Berlin (I've been in Mitte only though) is amazing compared to Amsterdam. Far easier to get around to the locations, clean communication (simple German), and you don't need a stupid RFID/NFC card. Only thing I disliked was the heroin junkies at some places.

And, well the traffic lights for pedestrians go from green to red like poof while in The Netherlands they will blink green before going to red. Germany should adopt that system from us, it informs pedestrians about their situation.

_Codemonkeyism4• 9 years ago

I agree with the green lights, or we should use a countdown as some countries do.

My biggest gripe with pedestrian green lights is how short they show green here in Berlin. Might be ok for younger folks, definitely a huge pain for older people.

urlwolf• 9 years ago

I had to stop biking to work (40 min each way) because I realized that I will have an accident if I continue, and I cannot afford the downtime.

agumonkey• 9 years ago

related: Paris redesign for the Place de la Bastille, with a lot less roads. https://www.api-site.paris.fr/mairies/public/assets/2017%2F1...

kayoone3• 9 years ago

I did about 5000km in Berlin traffic by bike in the last 2 1/2 years and i can't count how often car drivers would have hit me without me paying close attention and having good breaks. At least every second day someone will cut into the bike lane while turning, not pay enough attention when turning right on crossings or underestimate speeds. Granted, i am not moving slow, and i drive a car myself and know that it is sometimes really hard to see bikes coming from everywhere so i accept these risks as normal, but improvements to the infrastructure would be awesome, since in many places it really is not great or outright dangerous. I recently visited Copenhagen and the bike infrastructure was amazing to see, however the city is 1/5th of Berlins size and there just is not a lot of car traffic.

Svip• 9 years ago

Another important point often missed in these discussions is training. If you take a driving licence in Denmark, a big part of the training is how to deal with bicyclists. I have also taken a bus driving licence in Denmark, and there it becomes an even bigger thing.

Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right, placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you in the right mirror.

Generally speaking, most other European countries don't have this extensive training on how to deal with bicyclists for drivers, so bicyclists are naturally told to watch out for cars on foreign plates (with the exception of Dutch plates, I suppose). And since their local environment don't usually have cyclists, drivers don't get to deal with it on a daily basis.

One thing is building the infrastructure, another is getting everyone else on board.

laingc2• 9 years ago

I’m not sure about the explicit training, but drivers in Germany are generally pretty excellent when it comes to dealing with cyclists.

Grumbledour• 9 years ago

Ha! Good one! Maybe compared with other countries? But that doesn't stop them from ignoring your right of way, parking in the bike lane, pushing you to the side at red lights or pushing in front of you dangerously even when its not you who is blocking traffic, because obviously there is nothing worse than being stuck behind a cyclist.

Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often terrible in their behavior on the street, but they at least are less deadly to other cyclists. So while it could certainly be worse, there is a lot you have to deal with when sharing the road with drivers who either ignore or outright hate you.

tnolet• 9 years ago

Hmmm, being Dutch living in Berlin I have to frown at this. In the busier areas around Mitte and Kreuzberg I regularly have to swerve around cars that seemingly are oblivious of cyclists. But I’m probably spoiled due to being used to the Dutch bike path system.

odiroot• 9 years ago

Maybe it's Berlin specific but I can't count how many times I've got bump/pushed by a right-turning car while going straight ahead myself. Usually it's taxis, delivery and BMW drivers trying to catch the "late yellow".

Xylakant• 9 years ago

Training does not seem to help much. Here in Berlin, I regularly see Dutch and Danish coaches parked on cycle lanes in busy traffic, forcing cyclists to veer into traffic. Enforcement seems to be the key, and that’s sorely lacking here.

lagadu2• 9 years ago

As someone who lives in Copenhagen: that's because the cycling lanes system in Berlin is pretty terrible and is set up opposite to how it's set up here, in regards to where the cycling lanes are. Having seen it I'd never try to use it myself whenever I go to Berlin. No offense, but the way people cycle there is also scary: here I can count 100% on the cyclists (myself included when cycling) to follow the rules and behave predictably like cars do, in Berlin it's chaos; stuff like respecting right of way like cars do, obeying traffic lights, not cycling in the wrong direction and dear god stay away from the sidewalks.

I've no problem with cyclists when driving here but holy hell whenever I drive anywhere else in Europe (haven't been in the Netherlands by car so I can't judge there, though it looked fine) the incredibly bad behaviours I constantly see legit make me angry at them.

Improvotter2• 9 years ago

I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and walking the rest of the way. But it has made it so much safer and easier for cyclists (and people on foot!) to just get around.

Antwerp also recently introduced a measure where only cars with a low amount of "exhaust gases" (can't really find the proper name as of writing this) are allowed in the city centre. I haven't been there since, but it's also something I truly admire going into the future.

I visited San Francisco last year and it was a true nightmare to get around in Mountain View by bike. I have never felt more unsafe on a bike in my entire life to be honest. I am driving on a bike without a biking lane next to cars that are going close to 100km/h. It's truly insane. Visiting other cities in the US as well have been awful from a cyclist's point of view compared to most of the European cities and cities from the Netherlands are amazing as well (something you don't hear very often from a Belgian).

So all in all, please just ban the car in most places in the city imo or do something like Antwerp that drives (pun intended) people towards electric cars faster.

masklinn3• 9 years ago

Louvain-la-Neuve also has an interesting take on this. Like Ghent it's a student city but it's also a planned city, and was built as a "two-levels" city, buildings sit on top of a huge concrete "slab" and topside is completely car-free, with roads & parkings downside.

Not having to "burn" any surface on carspace makes the city pretty inherently walkable.

One issue is I don't remember the public parkings providing electric plugs for EC.

Cynddl• 9 years ago

I still find that Louvain-la-Neuve have failed to build a city for cyclists, but I can't pinpoint exactly why. There are very few people who bike there, almost zero bike parkings despite being a car-free city. The city is small but still, some places are quite far by foot (>30 minutes walking from one side to the other).

roymurdock• 9 years ago

How does Ghent's supply chain/delivery system function? In the US we have huge vans or semis to deliver inventory.

I was in Zermatt this Summer (no combustion-engine cars allowed) and everything /everyone is transported around in little electric golf cart type vehicles to reduce smog, which could block the town's view of the Matterhorn. Is it similar in Ghent?

lucozade• 9 years ago

Pedestrian-only town centres are getting pretty common.

I can't speak for Ghent but it's fairly normal to have periods, early morning or late evening, where goods vehicles are allowed access.

It's worth bearing in mind that the centres of a lot of European towns and cities are fairly small and not very vehicle friendly anyway. One of the advantages of being pre-industrial is that it can take less work to be pre-industrial again. I'd expect that, in general, doing this is the US will be harder than a lot of Europe as the towns just aren't built that way.

pouetpouet• 9 years ago

There are usually logistics centers on the fringe of the city. From there everything is dispatched on smaller city friendly vehicles. Small vans or ebikes like so https://www.dekra.net/media/newsletter/jpg/2017/ups-zustellf... or so https://www.ttm.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/8892_333.jpg

Improvotter2• 9 years ago

Delivery by bike mostly when a car can't get to them. BubblePost is an example.

Sholmesy• 9 years ago

I went to Ghent for the first time this year, just passing through.

That place is amazing, getting rid of cars should be a #1 priority for city centres with ANY foot traffic.

grenoire• 9 years ago

Antwerp also recently introduced a measure where only cars with a low amount of "exhaust gases" (can't really find the proper name as of writing this) are allowed in the city centre. I haven't been there since, but it's also something I truly admire going into the future.

Amsterdam is introducing a similar system for scooters. Older scooters are no longer allowed in these designated zones due to 'environmental concerns.' I don't really buy that as the reason though; the government has been actively making the centre more and more bike-safe, and scooters are an active threat to cyclists due to the shared lanes.

phicoh2• 9 years ago

Disclaimer: I don't particularly like mopeds, but I do care that (local) regulation is somewhat sane. This new regulation in Amsterdam is quite bad.

The argument about shared lanes doesn't really apply to traditional mopeds because for most part they are not allowed on bike paths anyhow. And soon the slower mopeds that are allowed on bike paths will be moved to the main road as well.

The weird thing about this new regulation is first of all that it applies to all of Amsterdam. So some north-south routes that go through Amsterdam will require insane detours.

The second weird thing is that 4-stroke engines on moped, don't get much worse over time. It is weird to ban them just because the engine is over a certain age. But the worst thing is that an older 4-stroke engine is way better than a new 2-stroke engine.

Getting rid of old 2-stroke engines is probably a good thing, but then banning all 2-stroke engines would make most sense.

The scheme only makes sense from a government point of view: automatic license plate scanners can figure out the age of a moped and automatically send a fine.

Pet peeve of mine: I find it completely bizar that city governments can arbitrarily ban vehicles. There should at least be national categories that could be banned. Not that every city comes up with completely arbitrary rules that from one day to another can have a significant impact on the owner of the vehicle.

paride5745• 9 years ago

Cyclists need to be trained as well.

I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me.

I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.

kayoone3• 9 years ago

similarly i have almost crashed a couple of times because of pedestrians carelessly walking onto the bike lane (when getting out of their car for example). One time a guy walking next to the bike lane suddenly threw his arm up into my face as i passed (he was going in my direction, so couldn't see me, but was gesticulating widely with this friends). So it goes both ways...

hawski• 9 years ago

I hate when cyclists don't yield to people going in or out of a tram or a bus. They mostly ring at you when you cross the bike lane from bus stop to the bus. Cars would stop in the same situation as this is sanctified. It happens from all the places next to Hauptbahnhof and it infuriates me, because there are far more passengers than cyclists. I know that is because cyclists want to maintain inertia, but it's just rude.

mpweiher• 9 years ago

Hmm...would you simply walk across the busy street in front of the Haubptbahnhof and expect the cars to stop for you?

Or would you take the overpass, or wait at the traffic light?

Definitely someone is being rude in the scenario, I don't think it is the cyclists. (And no, you are not allowed to cross a street just because a bus stopped).

uoaei• 9 years ago

Cyclists are trained ... in the art of dodging hapless pedestrians who aren't aware what the red bricks and white lines (and funny little symbol of triangles and circles!) on the ground are supposed to signify.

At least for me, I got good enough at dodging pedestrians to just do it all the time. It's easier for everyone. I'm out of your way in a quarter of a second, and you're out of mine. Situational awareness is of course key here.

Only accident I got in during my two years in Germany was when a car pulled into the bike path to turn left right in front of me and sat there mugging me while I plowed into their front fender sideways.

bkor3• 9 years ago

Cyclists need to be trained as well.

You can avoid the majority of the unsafe situations if you have the right infrastructure. Meaning: a simple line on the street or some line on the pedestrian path is really poor safety wise.

A bike line should be on its own. Not close to parked cars, not a part of the pedestrian path. Further, it should be super visible (always painted red in the Netherlands). So many countries there's either no separation or it's just some sign.

Similar for crossings. There's loads of video's explaining the Dutch system. Whenever I go abroad I find most bicycle initiatives unsafe and poorly thought out.

Plus all of this can usually be done without actually needing additional space.

ben_w3• 9 years ago

While yes, of course people need training to be safe, if you hit someone with a bike you have to extremely unlucky to cause a life threatening injury. If you hit them with a car, you only have to be doing 30 mph for it to be 50:50 lethal.

I’ve only seen a relative handful of cyclists in the last few months in Berlin, but my experience in Cambridge has been that on the road, cyclists and drivers are about equal skill; but on cycle paths, you find the idiots who cycle 2-abreast at night with no lights or high-viz on a section with no path lighing, who somehow think it’s appropriate to complain that I did have lights (if I hadn’t had lights, we would’ve collided at about 30 mph, and I was the only one with a helmet).

Tepix• 9 years ago

There are plans for a "Radschnellweg" across the Ruhrgebiet (RS1, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radschnellweg#Nordrhein-Westfa... )

Looks like it will take a while longer than anticipated, however.

inp• 9 years ago

Very good news. Other city should do the same... France is a nightmare for cyclists.

liotier• 9 years ago

As a French cyclist, France is paradise compared to the UK - itself a paradise compared to the USA...

megy2• 9 years ago

Paris isn't too bad, the drivers are used to cyclists and mostly courteous, even the charles de gaulle roundabout is doable.

hannob• 9 years ago

I have followed the debate for a while and am familiar with the situation. I wouldn't be overly optimistic yet.

Until now there have been a lot of bold announcements and very little changes.

Some of the things in the article paint a picture much more rosy than reality: "Meanwhile, the city’s existing bike-lane network—already extensive, but not always well segregated from car traffic—will be more rigorously protected by bollards."

The fact is right now bike lanes are never segregated from car traffic in Berlin. There exist two kinds of bike ways in Berlin: Paintings on the street and cycleways on the pedestrian sidewalk. The bike lanes on the streets are often occupied by parking cars, and pedestrians usually walk on the other kind of cycleway like they don't exist.

corpMaverick• 9 years ago

I would love to live in a biking city. It gives you a greater opportunity to live in community. A lot more freedom for the kids, old people, etc. Any chance any city in the USA to be become like that ?

NelsonMinar• 9 years ago

I went looking for details on the new bike plan and found this interesting article on how hard a time Berlin has had hiring transportation engineers to develop the plan: https://www.thelocal.de/20171215/over-a-dozen-engineers-urge...

billfruit• 9 years ago

Are they planning a dockless bicycle hire system like the very convenient Mobike system in China?

cjsawyer• 9 years ago

I live in Fort Collins, Colorado. It’s supposedly the best bike city in the entire US. I STILL see people narrowly avoid accidents almost daily due to only about half of the roads having dedicated bike lanes and the insufficient size of the lanes that do exist. It’s really a disappointment given that title. I’m glad I have a car.

Edit: On a little research, apparently that’s a very outdated acendote. Good to know!

Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

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