Millennials Don't Care About Owning Cars, and Car Makers Can't Figure Out Why

https://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-about-owning-cars-and-car-makers-cant-figure-out-why

by amelius • 10 years ago

66 184 10 years ago

John238324• 10 years ago

There are plenty of mililenials out there with cars, they just don t have NEW ones.

But for the millenials out there with old cars, and for the ones without a car at all. Nobody wants to buy a car because they're a huge financial responsibility. Duh? Millenials, who are sattled with student loans or, even worse (statistically), didn't go to school, don't want to attach themselves to a huge payment every month. If they're in a city, owning a car probably comes with huge parking fees as well.

icebraining10• 10 years ago

There are plenty of mililenials out there with cars, they just don t have NEW ones.

The article also points out that driving licenses have dropped significantly, so it's not just a matter of buying cheaper cars.

brainfire2• 10 years ago

The article asserts this, but doesn't support it. It's got a statistic for the current rate, but for the past it basically says "back in MY day we were EXCITED to get our licenses."

pantalaimon• 10 years ago

As living in the city is getting more and more popular, this is very much understandable.

I can only speak for Berlin, but I got rid of my car soon after moving here. As a student public transport is basically free (it's part of the semester fee) and after finishing university, getting anywhere from anywhere at any time of the day (and at any state of consciousness) felt so natural, that I quickly got myself a BVG subscription.

You can always rent a van for cheap if you have to transport something big - that is if you have a driver's licence. Many people who were born here never bothered to get one.

ghaff8• 10 years ago

I daresay, for recent college graduates, buying used cars and even clunkers has been common for a very long time.

vacri• 10 years ago

As a gen X-er, we didn't have new cars when we were young, either. My mother said it was a bit of a problem - good cars required less skill to drive, but it was older people with skill that got them. Meanwhile the young, inexperienced drivers have the crappy old cars that you really should have some experience before driving them (For example, I remember driving for half a kilometer on a dead-flat tyre because I didn't recognise the feel of that pull. Something felt wrong, but I had no idea what...)

cryoshon• 10 years ago

Cars are too expensive for people without much money. Boom, question answered.

creshal4• 10 years ago

We're talking about the same millennials that have more than one laptop and smart phone per capita, right?

djent• 10 years ago

You don't need to pay to fill up your phone with gasoline

cLeEOGPw• 10 years ago

That's like saying that people must afford an iphone 7 if he owns a calculator and an alarm clock. Laptops and smartphones are orders of magnitude cheaper.

forgetsusername3• 10 years ago

There's a magnitude difference in price owning 2 iPhones + 2 laptops versus a car, and that doesn't include maintenance.

Broken_Hippo4• 10 years ago

I have more than one smartphone. Mostly because I've never gotten rid of some old ones that don't really work well or reliably. It isn't that out of range to have a couple of laptops, one older and the updated one. When so much of your life is on the computer, this makes sense - you are really out of sorts without it.

A car, on the other hand, costs more. I figure upfront costs for a cheapish used car being around $3,000 - $5,000. This costs more than a couple of laptops and smartphones combined - and it is all at once. At least the phones might be subsidized by the phone company (though I read that is changing there).

In addition, there are all these fees associated with cars. You have taxes and plates and insurance (which can cost as much as internet every month). These cost more with newer cars. Newer cars you have car payments, followed by some time with overlapping maintenance fees and car payments. Used cars with a loan have that as well: Without a loan, you still have maintenance costs and fuel costs to consider.

Seriously an unfair comparison.

Besides, even with a vehicle, the expectation is really that folks have a cell phone and internet service: Computer instead of television of days gone by. Heck, you need this sort of thing for job and apartment shopping. Sure, theoretically there are libraries, but not everyone actually has access to them. (there are places in Indiana without a local library, and any they can use charge to use them, for example).

gotofritz• 10 years ago

It looks like people like to comment on the title without reading the article - it says that young people are genuinely not interested, as demonstrated by the fact fewer take a driving licence. They do have money, but they prefer spending on IT gadgets rather than cars. The article may be wrong of course, but it's not simply a matter of them being broke.

John238324• 10 years ago

The idea that millenials are buying gadgets over cars is a pretty dumb one. Those aren't in the same realm of financial responsibility.

People disagree with the article.

cheriot4• 10 years ago

How much of the money spent on cars is spent on transportation vs spent on status? Money made from selling status has to compete with everything from craft beer to the latest iPhone and holidays that can be bragged about on social media.

shermanyo• 10 years ago

I went from commuting for the first couple of years by car, to moving within a 10 minute bus ride from my office.

Being a major city, the bus fare alone is cheaper than parking. I live within 15 minutes of world class night life, a city who's main source of income is tourism. An uber home costs little more than a drink.

For a lot of high rises, the cost of a car park is comparable in price to an extra room. It could be the difference between a nicer place or one further out.

I used to road trip to my home town before I started working, but the last few years have been trips overseas, or to other states with the same friends. Not having a car payment, or registration, or insurance helped here...

I know my lifestyle isn't for everyone, there are a lot of pros and cons. I think putting off settling down and having a family (another millennial trend?) removes a lot of the need for a car though. By the time I stopped driving, it seemed more an inconvenience than anything. Like that bulky spare couch you don't have a room for after moving house.

Just offering my $0.02 as a millennial that relates to the story.

brainfire2• 10 years ago

"demonstrated by the fact fewer take a driving licence"

That's not actually demonstrated in the article, read again.

retox• 10 years ago

Cars as a status symbol is very old hat.

reacweb• 10 years ago

Cars was the manner to show your wealth, now it is the iphone 7. People use to be proud of their shinny car. Now, they compare cost of ownership.

BTW, I am proud of my Leaf. Maybe EV will mark a renewal for this market.

danpalmer• 10 years ago

Learning to drive was expensive, so I didn't do it, then I graduated and moved to a city (like many others my age) and didn't need a car because public transport is ubiquitous and parking facilities aren't. Only anecdotal, but I know a lot of people in my position.

creshal4• 10 years ago

Yep.

I grew up in the sticks, so of course I got a car the second I could to get around.

Then I moved to an actual city (i.e., 250k population) and I spent more time hunting for parking spots than actually driving, and when I moved to an even bigger city, I left my car with my parents because I was fed up with how inconvenient cars were.

I don't see how car manufacturers are going to "fix" being worse than public transit.

sitkack• 10 years ago

They could fix it by burning down public transit, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

wastedhours• 10 years ago

The same - lived in a small city, got a car as soon as I could. Adore driving, love it as a pursuit as well as a means to get from A-B, but having moved to London last year can hand on my heart say I'd never own a car here. Traffic, no parking, slower than public transport and Uber is but a click away.

Cars will go the way of the horse in urban areas - luxuries to be enjoyed as a passion rather than something for the everyday.

ghaff8• 10 years ago

Owning a car is one thing. It depends on where you live, where you work, and your preferences.

However, I literally would not have been able to have done any job I've ever had without the ability to drive. (I'm not talking about commuting although that's been the case, but driving to customer sites, driving to remote transportation with one job, etc.)

To say nothing about countless travel experiences which wouldn't have been possible without driving. Even my friends in cities like SF who don't own cars and use Uber extensively, still rent cars and use Zipcar on a regular basis.

time4tea• 10 years ago

Is it because cars are expensive horrendous fossil fuel powered polluting machines that are not compatible with city living? Is it because the insurance industry, by its failure to deal with fraud, except by simply pricing it in, had made insurance premiums unreasonably expensive? Is it because the streets are clogged and travel times are huge? Is it because going by bike is just so nice?

probably_wrong2• 10 years ago

I think I would add "Is it because they are money sinks, requiring substantial regular payments for insurance, maintenance, fuel, and (in some cities) parking spots?".

mhurron• 10 years ago

I'm simply going to go with - They cost money.

That is assuming the article is correct at all.

maze-le• 10 years ago

I might add: From my point of view, they are more often than not unnecessary. As a single without children living in a european city, the occasions where I really 'needed' a car come down to: change of residence and buying big chunks of material -- like e.g. wood. With a supermarket, several doctors, my bank, and even a police station in about 5-10 min. walking distance, the usage of a car in everyday life routine would be definitly too cumbersome.

nogbit• 10 years ago

Also add...

Is it because many of them are having kids much later in life and don't need a car for all the reasons one would want or need one when they do have kids (school, travel, vacations, trips to grandmas, ski trips, Sunday drives, sports activities, club events, youth groups, pet vet trips, doctor trips, dentist trips, dinner night out, day hike, picnic in the park...shall I go on). Each and everyone one of us can say "I can take the bus to that", but would you or even can you load up your family of four to each and everyone one of those?

And in summary, maybe the automakers should adjust their expectations of anyone < 35 years old. Or maybe they should of all went bust in 2008 instead of being bailed out and let market forces reset the playing table resulting in better products and possibly more jobs, but that's another story.

amelius2• 10 years ago

This is why I think the Apple Car is doomed. Apple makes products with a luxury/status component, that people want to own. But if transportation becomes a service rather than a physical product, the market for autonomous vehicles will not be for end-consumers. Apple will need to seriously rethink its strategy and perhaps reinvent itself.

I also think that once autonomous cars are ubiquitous, transportation will become a service no matter how much big companies want to see it differently, because autonomous vehicles as a service will make parking spots totally unnecessary. Interesting times ahead for city planning.

creshal4• 10 years ago

But if transportation becomes a service rather than a physical product

"if"? In many cities that's already the case.

grecy3• 10 years ago

I'm pretty sure everyone working on autonomous cars realizes there is no future in personal ownership.

gaius5• 10 years ago

Maybe for people who only use cars for the monthly Ikea trip but there are a world of use cases where ownership makes sense, basically any time you want to use a vehicle as "mobile storage of stuff".

mmcconnell1618• 10 years ago

I'm pretty sure you can argue for personal car ownership in a self-driving world. Do you want to get into a shared vehicle right after the guy who puked up his dinner? Have you ever been in a public restroom? Some people will not want to use shared transportation. Other people may see ownership and customization of a self-driving car as the ultimate status symbol. What's better than Donald Trump's gold plated throne room pulling up to the curb?

scotty79• 10 years ago

I'd buy a car that drives itself. Whenever I briefly consider buying any car that costs more than twice my current monthly income I eventually come to a conclusion "right, all this is probably really nice, but I'd still have to drive this thing" and that's the worst part of cars for me, driving them.

jimmytidey• 10 years ago

Maybe it's too much to hope that people don't want cars because cars destroy the urban environment, cause many fatal accidents and lead to global warming?

At least in Europe, I think cheap flights are another factor. The car used to enable the fantasy that you could wake up in the morning and drive off in search of adventure.

But any adventure within driving range looks increasingly passe in the era of easy foreign travel.

Piskvorrr2• 10 years ago

Adventure within driving range also means "adventure within medium-distance public transport, with no worries about designated drivers etc." That said, I don't really see a decline in this lifestyle (even cheap flights are no match to 4 people to a car, pricewise), so perhaps each of us is only looking at their own precious one data point?

dagw• 10 years ago

But any adventure within driving range looks increasingly passe in the era of easy foreign travel.

I'd say that cheap flights have had the exact opposite effect. A long weekend in London/Berlin/Paris has become increasingly passe compared to a long weekend spent a 4 hour drive off the beaten track in that place you can only reach by car.

chefkoch• 10 years ago

Why don't they mention the that more and more people move to the cities?

The need for owning your own car iss very diefferent there from living in a rural area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_United_Sta...

gaius5• 10 years ago

It's part of something bigger, it's not just cars as status symbol in decline, but cars as a lifestyle enabler.

I'm a diver, and to live the dive lifestyle, i.e. diving regularly at the weekends not just a week a year on holiday, pretty much requires owning a car. You can load it up the night before, set off at 0-dark-30 to make the tide, use it as a base for the weekend, come back late and unload the next day, etc etc. Do-able with a rental but a lot more hassle given the timings. Including tanks and weights, the Mrs and I would probably take 150-200kg of gear for a weekend trip.

Diving as a sport is in long-term decline since the 1990s, so are mountaineering, basically all outdoor pursuits that require some logistics get to remote places, and possibly even all outdoor activities. People these days prefer to not go outside at all if they can avoid it. This can't be good for public health.

CalRobert4• 10 years ago

"People these days prefer to not go outside at all if they can avoid it. "

Counterpoint: I LOVE cycling. Do it all the time. I love riding anywhere I can make it my main mode of transport.

When I lived in LA, this was rarely. I rode down Lincoln Blvd. several times and still remember the sound of tires squealing from the pickup behind me. My best guess is that the driver looked up from their phone and saw me with about 0 seconds to spare, given that they came to a stop about an inch from my rear wheel.

I like cycling so much, in fact, that I moved to a European city where I can cycle to work, to the shop, to my friends' places, every day. There were other reasons too of course, but that was one of the biggest.

Living in a European city where things can be reached by cycle meant that really, I don't even need a car, so I don't own one.

Anyway, there are outdoor activities that don't require a car.

Broken_Hippo4• 10 years ago

I'm in Norway. In the city I'm at, a car is definitely a luxury. We have a used one that is only used to transport heavy goods (kitty litter) and go out of town occasionally. I still walk to the grocery store and most places in town or ride the bus.

However, we would go out of town before we had a car... because public transportation is really a thing. City to city. Not all-inclusive, but enough that one can travel to the outdoors so long as you are willing to walk or cycle as well. It just takes slightly more planning is all.

I could have never had this sort of car-less freedom in the states. Living in a larger city was probably one thing, but getting from city to city - or city to the outdoors - was quite another entirely.

acdha2• 10 years ago

I think your first part is right - and would fit the general trend of people earning less and having longer hours or less convenient schedules - but the second part seems way off. Running, jogging, hiking, and cycling seem at least as popular as ever, which would also fit the theory that sports which have a larger logistical and equipment footprint are more affected by the general decline in economic security. Something like diving or mountaineering costs a lot more in time just to acquire the skills you need to go on a trip but almost anyone can slip on some athletic shoes or ride a bike casually.

forgetsusername3• 10 years ago

People these days prefer to not go outside at all if they can avoid it.

I don't know if this is true. I think I agree with you, but have no idea if the data supports it. Sports and outdoor leisure activities sometimes seem more accessible than ever.

detaro• 10 years ago

I think for many, cause and effect are reversed from your theory. Hobbies that more or less require a car are less popular with people that do not need a car otherwise, or are moved to locations & styles that are accessible without one.

Not having a car limits my outdoor locations to what I can reach by bike and public transport (and my holiday travel locations), but it's hard to justify the hassle of a car just for that. Still enough interesting locations around.

ghaff8• 10 years ago

Sports go in and out of fashion all the time. For example, in the communities that I'm involved in, open boat canoeing has been on a fairly long-term decline but paddleboarding is extremely popular, at least in the Northeast, these days--which requires big and hard-to-transport gear. Sea kayaking remains pretty popular as well, as far as I can tell.

Not sure what the overall hiking stats are. I can say that a lot of national park visitation (such as to Acadia in Maine) is up. https://irma.nps.gov/Stats/SSRSReports/Park%20Specific%20Rep... (I'm told it's way up this year. The speculation is that Americans are putting off travel to Europe for various reasons.)

bluedino• 10 years ago

> it's not just cars as status symbol in decline, but cars as a lifestyle enabler.

That hasn't changed one bit in the midwestern United States. People go 'up north' or 'to the lake/cabin' for the weekend, every weekend. So you need a camping trailer (huge monstrosities in their own right), or a trailer + boat, jetskis, 4-wheelers, dirt bikes, or maybe just some road bikes or canoes/kayaks.

If you have a boat/camper you need a full size truck to pull the trailer. Many people go for the 3/4 ton trucks for their hauling and payload capacity. Anything smaller and an SUV will do, and you have quite a few people who put their kayaks or bikes on the roofs of their car.

MrBuddyCasino• 10 years ago

I can relate. I'm don't own a car, preferring to use car-sharing services instead, but I would love to go kajaking more, which requires a car. Very costly, very annoying.

goodmachine• 10 years ago

Pinch of salt required:

"Companies like our client ZipCar, for example".

Blink and you'll miss it: this article is not exactly flagged as sponsored content. Author bio, tucked away off-page:

"Darren Ross is executive vice president of insights and solutions at college marketing agency Fluent."

Insights and solutions, eh?

https://www.fastcoexist.com/user/darren-ross

robbyt2• 10 years ago

Good find. Ironically, I Hated ZipCar (in NYC). It was really awful, for many reasons I don't care to articulate here.

I would much rather own a car, then have to deal with ZipCar.

_of• 10 years ago

Why awful? I used it once in NYC. It was really not cheaper than a regular car rental, but other than that it was not bad. It was convenient not having to deal with lining up at a front desk when getting the car and returning it. Also the app makes extending your time easy.

icebraining10• 10 years ago

The funny thing is, if much fewer people are getting driver's licenses as the article claims, then ZipCar is also screwed.

I'm an example of that; since I never planned to own a car, I never got a license, and it's very hard to justify that time and expense when you can just take an Uber for a couple of bucks more.

Tharkun• 10 years ago

I don't drive and don't have a license, but Uber is banned in my neck of the woods and taxis are ridiculously expensive. Driving would probably make my life a lot easier.

unprepare• 10 years ago

But that’s not the "driving" factor, especially considering that owning a smartphone or other mobile device, with its monthly fees of network access, data plan, insurance, and app services, is almost comparable to the monthly payments required when leasing a Honda Civic.

iphone 7 plus 128GB - 41.58$

Verizon 4GB data plan - 50$

insurance - 10$

app services? - 20$

Total - 121.58$

From Honda's website, they're advertising a civic lease for $179 a month. that's with 2000$ due at signing. Oh wait! you'll also need mandatory driver's insurance on that vehicle, that'll be at least another 50$ (im told, i live in michigan which has the highest car insurance prices in the nation, my 2012 sonata costs 178 a month to insure, that's well above my monthly payment on the car itself - i have never been in an accident and i have no tickets in the last 5 years) anyways, so we are at least at $229 total with a 2000$ initial down payment. That's quite considerably more expensive...

oh wait! theres also the various fees for getting a license, getting a license plate, registering the vehicle with the state, and of course the mental cost of maintaining the various paperwork.

Total - 229$ + 2500ish$

JangoSteve• 10 years ago

Also, if we're including cost of a data plan for the phone, I think it's only fair to include gas and maintenance in the cost of the car.

Piskvorrr2• 10 years ago

This. The TCO of a car is ginormous, even for all the comfort it provides.

joezydeco• 10 years ago

When I sold my car a while ago I had been organized enough to keep all maintenance records and bills. On top of depreciation and licensing I could figure out how much gas I had used, and tallied up all my insurance premiums.

The cost per mile came out almost identical to what the IRS lets you expense per mile on a corporate rate that year. Right now that rate is $0.54/mile.

forgetsusername3• 10 years ago

that'll be at least another 50$

Maybe for the bare minimum liability. But if there's a lien on the car (because it's leased or financed) then you're required to have comprehensive insurance. Combined with the fact that a new driver will have higher rates and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a rate below $150 a month.

oh wait! theres also the various fees

And maintenance. 4 oil changes a year, tires, brakes, belts and other things that need to be replaced regularly probably adds another $1000 per year.

Cars are definitely an excessive expense. I know because I've owned (at least) one my whole life. Then again, my car affords me the ability to live in an area where the cost of living is far below New York, San Francisco, Vancouver or Toronto.

Amezarak• 10 years ago

No doubt it depends on what car your driving, but those seem like pretty crazy high maintenance costs. Over the past ten years, I've spent anywhere from $60-$400/year on maintenance. I drive about 30k miles a year. "Brakes and belts" are for me something you do every 100k miles. Oil changes run about $30, with a new filter. The only other regular maintenance item is the engine air filter, which runs maybe $10. Every couple years I end up buying new tires, but I've known people that made it 8+ years on one set.

Altogether, with taxes, fuel, car payments, and insurance, it costs me about $400/month to have a car which I don't think is terrible.

It would be nice to spend less on transportation, but I really can't imagine life without a car. Even if I lived in a major city with great public transport - I can imagine using public transport to commute, but I'd still want a car. Of course, where I live now, having a car is absolutely mandatory. I've always kind of shaken my head at the HN comments that suggest I could just ride a bike or something - even if I moved right next to my job site (no thanks), for probably eight months of the year the weather is hot enough that even a slow walk will leave you absolutely drenched in sweat. And maybe I'm crazy, but I prefer going to the grocery store for an hour once every two weeks as opposed to dropping by every day...pretty tough to do without a car. And then there really is the abstract freedom aspect - I can take off and go anywhere, anytime. Coordination is never a factor.

And as you say, I can live in a much lower CoL area with my car. Which also helps in that there's much less traffic than in a big city, so driving a car is more enjoyable. I have a 30 mile commute wherein I can drive as fast as I want except for the last mile. :)

xienze• 10 years ago

Now let's talk about how much it costs to live in a part of the country where you don't need a car at all...

fzzzy• 10 years ago

The verzion $50 doesn't include line access, which is another $20 per smartphone.

Hondor• 10 years ago

A lot of comments about how expensive cars are. Do Americans really have to borrow money to buy cars? Where I come from, the used car market is huge. They're about the price of a laptop or a couple of smartphones. Even young people can afford them.

imagist3• 10 years ago

I can't speak for most American millenials, but my options are:

1. Buy a $5000 car up-front, which is an expensive up-front cost for me (and more than most people my age have in savings). If I've been careful in investigating the car, it will work most of the time and only cost me $500/year in repairs.

2. Buy a $20K car for $2000 up-front, taking on $18K on top of my student loans, which, frankly, I"m just not going to do. I've been shit on by banks enough for one lifetime.

3. Keep my savings, use public transit, and have enough financial stability that I could lose my job for a few months and not be homeless.

And for the record, I'm a software dev; I make almost twice as much salary as most of my peers.

My Macbook Air cost me $1200. My $2000 Macbook Pro was paid for by my job. Most of my peers buy <$1000 PCs. And laptops are cheaper to repair and don't require gas, insurance, or a license.

nibnib• 10 years ago

1. Buy a $5000 car up-front, which is an expensive up-front cost for me (and more than most people my age have in savings). If I've been careful in investigating the car, it will work most of the time and only cost me $500/year in repairs.

Is this accurate for the US? I live in an expensive European country and a used car around that price would cost next to nothing in annual repairs, unless you really drove it a lot. Do you need to pay $5k up front? It's common here to take loans for used cars.

rainsford• 10 years ago

While the article says more technology in cars might entice millenial buyers, I feel like tech in cars is actually a disincentive for anyone interested in technology. With a few notable exceptions, most car tech seems like embarrassing garbage that's hardly enticing when it's brand new, much less at the end of a typical car's lifetime. Car development doesn't keep pace with things like smartphones, people keep cars much longer, and automakers don't seem inclined to offer much in the way of updates once they have your money.

damaru• 10 years ago

The whole car pride is a thing of the past. It used to define who you were and prove your success. People are simply evolving and take the car for what it is, it's simply transportation and you shouldn't make a big deal out of it, nor you should go in massive debt for it. If the car industry wants to change, making better quality, cheaper car, less polluting and smaller or more intelligent, it might benefit them a lot.

mathattack• 10 years ago

I'm with the Millenials. I hate owning a car, and didn't miss it when I lived in the city. Now that I'm in suburbia, I only own one begrudgingly. It barely makes sense economically versus Uber and renting, and then only because we take weekend adventures. I also don't feel the need to own a horse. :-)

I look forward to price competition between fleets of driverless cars taking away the need to own a car.

quaffapint• 10 years ago

Millennials seem to be happier moving into cities than us gen x'rs who fled the cities. Around here in the rural/suburbs you couldn't survive (ie, get to work, groceries) without a car.

I would love to have better public transportation so I didn't have the payments, but I don't see that in my lifetime.

skizm• 10 years ago

Yes, I don't own a car because I don't care... It has nothing to do with my crippling student loan debt and my need to live within walking distance of public transportation.

refurb• 10 years ago

From 2007 to 2011, the number of cars purchased by people aged 18 to 34, fell almost 30%, and according to a study from the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, only 44% of teens obtain a driver’s license within the first year of becoming eligible and just half, 54% are licensed before turning 18.

It would have been nice to see more data. 2007 to 2011, car purchases among that age group dropped 30%. What did other age groups look like? That was right after the crash, so I suspect other stopped buying cars as well.

And what's with quoting how many teens get licenses? What did it look like 10 years ago? Was it the same?

lj33• 10 years ago

Modern economy cars suck. They're less fuel efficient than they used to be, they have less power, they're not as stable and they're in need of constant repairs. They're also more expensive than they were 20 years ago. I could forgive a lot about a 10 year old Toyota Corolla when it was only $700. I'm not as forgiving now that a 10 year old Toyota Corolla is $5k.

If the cost wasn't enough, modern cars just aren't fun to drive. Compare the Honda Civic to my father's generation's idea of an economy car: The Ford Mustang. I'm told that car was a blast to drive and my father could afford one as a high school student.

rwmj• 10 years ago

Various sources in this article says you're wrong: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/diagnosing-car-...

Plus also my anecdata. Cars were horrendously unreliable back in the 1970s. It's only because of selection bias that the few reliable cars survived while all the recalled/broken down/junked cars from that era have gone.

lj33• 10 years ago

I'm wrong about what, exactly? My argument about reliability was about a 1986 Toyota Corolla driven in 1996 vs a 1999 Toyota Corolla driven in 2009. My argument about fun to drive was the Mustang, which came from my father. I wasn't alive in the 70's, nor did I assert 70's cars were more reliable.

dragonwriter• 10 years ago

The Mustang was never any generation's idea of an economy car; it was a muscle car, which is pretty much the polar opposite of an economy car.

lj33• 10 years ago

The new Mustang was viewed as a "fun-to-drive economy" car, but "in reality it shared its underpinnings with the ... Pinto."[0]

The Mustang enthusiasts don't like to dwell on its economy period in the 70's. If my father hadn't owned one, I never would have known.

[0] https://books.google.com/books?id=7NIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA66&lpg=P...

briHass• 10 years ago

The situation is almost entirely the opposite of what you stated.

Modern cars make more power while using less fuel [1][2], are way safer [3], more reliable [4], and are cheaper, relatively, than ever [5].

"Fun to drive" is subjective, but I don't think it's fair to compare a Civic to a Mustang. Personally, I think modern, performance cars handle better, feel "crisper", and accelerate better than the old muscle cars.

[1] http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pub...

[2] http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/11/every-car-is-now-a-perfor...

[3] http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/50/1/1

[4] http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/cars_have_imp...

[5] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DLIvw6mZGBU/SRDPkT-yq7I/AAAAAAAAAP...

pjmlp• 10 years ago

This is not only in US.

Here in Germany, thanks to the way city transports work, the majority of those that live and work in the city get by public transports and bicycles, only renting a car when going on vacations or for the weekend, for example.

Many of the young generations that buy cars, do so because they need to travel between cities for work/study.

jostmey• 10 years ago

The trend is exaggerated -- everyone needs transportation.

But I dislike the idea of owning a car because it requires so much work. I want a trouble free that car that "just works". I don't want to check the tire pressure, change the oil, wait in line for registration. Cars are a hassle.

ghaff8• 10 years ago

Eh. Relatively late model cars mostly do "just work" unless you get unlucky (or get in an accident etc.). You rarely need to check the tire pressure--and, in fact, a lot of newer cars have a tire pressure sensor. At least in my state, registration renewals are handled by mail or online. I haven't gone to the Department of Motor Vehicles for years. Assuming you have a parking space for one, cars are pretty far down the list of things that cause me work and annoyance--and one of my vehicles has almost 200K miles on it.

gambiting2• 10 years ago

I'm the exact opposite - I love owning a car and doing all the maintenance. I'll check the oil level and tyre pressures every few days. Every weekend I spend 2-3 hours outside, cleaning the car, polishing it, then doing the rims, and then vacuuming the inside and cleaning all windows. I just find it super relaxing and very satisfying.

VLM2• 10 years ago

I'd agree with and extend your remark with car ownership is much like peasant agricultural labor. If a judge and jury sentenced me to do it, or culture forced me, or parents expected it of me, I'd be pretty annoyed, but of my own free will this summer I grew many green pepper plants in my elaborate container garden and find the labor involved very relaxing (and tasty!).

Elaborate economic arguments about how I should have spent those relaxing labor hours contracting and then shopping for factory farmed green peppers are going to fall on deaf ears.

0xcde4c3db• 10 years ago

Driving, I gather, used to carry connotations of fun, romance, freedom, and prosperity. For me, today, it's more likely to evoke the opening scene of Office Space. The experience sucks, it's expensive, and it feels more like an obligation than an accomplishment. Taking the bus almost feels like a no-brainer in the same way that I'm apparently expected to feel that owning a car is a no-brainer.

nkrisc• 10 years ago

Personally ZipCar doesn't really solve anything. It's not necessarily owning a car that I don't like, it's driving I don't like like. Traffic sucks, parking sucks, other drivers suck.

I only drive because it's currently more convenient than not driving, and I don't even drive for my commute to work.

mkj2• 10 years ago

In Australia in the past decade it's become harder to get a license. It was 25 hours of practice, now it's 100 or something. I reckon that could be one reason.

Has that happened in other countries?

jessaustin3• 10 years ago

Not in USA. My understanding is that driving gets safer all the time, just from vehicle safety improvements. What motivated Australia to impose this burden on new drivers?

mkj2• 10 years ago

The population average age is increasing?

optimuspaul• 10 years ago

We're talking about the generation that never learned to really do anything for themselves (gross generalization) and are currently expending all their efforts to build services and apps that do everything that their parents did for them. Would Uber or Magic have been so successful without this generation? No (Yes), absolutely not (I'm sure it would have). This is the generation of "Can't someone else do it?"

Seriously though, cars are expensive, traffic and parking is crazy in many cities, infrastructure is falling apart, and the world is basically ending due to climate change... so are we really surprised that the this generation actually wants to a) be responsible and not contribute to this downward spiral or b) wants to live life to it's fullest and not be tied down to things like cars and houses. If car companies can't see that then they aren't asking them, because that is what many would say.

Jtsummers2• 10 years ago

Magic preceded the Millennials. It definitely won the hearts and minds of the Gen X gamer crowd first (the ones with the money to burn when the game first came out in the early 90s).

Uber is, fundamentally, no different than taxi services except that it allows average people to become drivers (taxis are either particularly exclusive requiring tests and certifications, or particularly bad like in most non-metropolitan towns that have them). Really, the basic use-case of Uber is what taxis should have done in the first place. GPS tracking + smartphones, they should've been connecting themselves to customers more intelligently. They didn't, Uber came in and swept up their business. That was their own fuck-up in many markets (in some markets the taxi services did do better, but not the majority, most still had traditional hailing or phoning in a taxi request).

graedus• 10 years ago

Magic preceded the Millennials.

I think optimuspaul is referring to Magic the startup. It's a virtual assistant that you text to perform various tasks for you (shopping, booking flights, etc).

lawless123• 10 years ago

As a "millenial" in Ireland the biggest reason was cost. Cars are expensive insurance is expensive or very expensive if you're young and male.

TomMasz• 10 years ago

As the article points out, a phone and data plan cost as much per month as a car payment. Perhaps, just perhaps, millennials simply don't have enough money to afford the equivalent of two car payments a month.

internaut2• 10 years ago

If we actually were living in prosperity these kinds of articles just would not exist.

It is all rationalizing.

The fact is that young people are poor, and not just poor in the conventional way people with less time on the planet less savings, but poor in the historical sense of being less wealthy in real money than their parents when they were the same age.

Somebody needs to explain to (most people outside places like Silicon Valley) why in an age supposedly advantaged by the forces of technology and globalization we are actually poorer.

We're not asking the right questions.

The government, the media and huge portions of the middle class are blithely ignoring the territory in favour of the map.

This is not going to end well.

jessaustin3• 10 years ago

It's been a long time since my monthly phone bill was more than $25, and I live in a rural area. Why don't people shop harder for this service?

venning• 10 years ago

This should have a (2014) label. It's an old story and an old theory that was always dubious and was quickly disproven.

A better, more recent story: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-01-04/millennia...

Edit: The earlier version of my comment was wrong.

amyjess3• 10 years ago

Two reasons, for me:

1) I don't trust myself to operate a machine that can kill other people.

2) I have better things to spend my money on. Why dump money into a car when I can live by myself in a big house, eat out and/or have food delivered twice a day every day, and fund several expensive hobbies?

mobiuscog• 10 years ago

Not a millenial by any means.

I hardly ever use the car now, walk most of the time and prefer public transport wherever possible.

Driving these days is a boring, stressful, tedious task that I only endure out of necessity.

pmlnr• 10 years ago

Uhm... because you just want to get from X to Z and you don't really care if you're owning the method or not?

JoeAltmaier4• 10 years ago

Electronic gadget addiction.

acveilleux3• 10 years ago

Heh, I'm 34 and I still don't have a drivers' license. I'm working on getting one but only because I moved out to a semi-rural area to follow my partner's faculty job.

scott_s• 10 years ago

It's also possible that cars have gotten better over time, and people are fine driving old ones. I drive a 15-year-old car. Yeah, a new car would be nice, but this one works just fine, and hasn't caused me any problems.

But when I think back to 2001, I don't think cars from 1986 would be the same way.

This is not data, of course, as it's completely anecdotal. But based on my own experience, I'd be curious if people really are holding onto cars longer, or buying more used cars.

JoeAltmaier4• 10 years ago

As a kid in Iowa, all the cars were rusted out. Nobody bought a new one but once or twice in their lives.

In college all the cars were new. Economy was up I guess, or cars were relatively cheaper.

Well, today the cars are getting rustier again. Lots of junkers; more used car lots than new; and even the new ones are econoboxes that won't last but a few years anyway.

Probably a study in there somewhere - plot the rust coefficient against wages or something.

jessaustin3• 10 years ago

Depending on when you went to college, the "Cash for Clunkers" scheme might have been relevant?

2almalki• 10 years ago

yep! my car is 15 years old, has ~80k miles and I was hoping it would last pass 200k+ miles

joe_momma• 10 years ago

a lot of factors going on here...

1. no jobs to pay for said car

2. must pay for student loans instead

3. cars are less reliable

4. cars cost more today, and more to maintain

5. gas prices increased but not wages

6. insurance costs

acveilleux3• 10 years ago

7. Millenials seem to flock to urban areas where cars are less required

rocky11382• 10 years ago

8. A constantly connected world via text/snapchat/instagram makes actually getting up and going to visit someone less of a necessity.

ghaff8• 10 years ago

Which seems to be an overstated trend according to a number of fivethiryeight pieces: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/think-millennials-prefer-...

Other pieces I've read suggest the actual trend is more along the lines of college-educated millenials are somewhat trending toward a handful of particularly dense and favored urban neighborhoods in the US (SF, Manhattan/Brooklyn, Boston/Cambridge, Austin). What broader urbanization trends there are also include places like DFW, Phoenix, etc. that aren't really walkable or have good public transit.

douche• 10 years ago

If it was 1972, the cars on the market that were cheap and widely available were models like the Mustang, GTO, Firebird, Challenger, Charger, Camaro, Chevelle, Roadrunner, and on and on. They were beautiful, fast, and fun to drive.

Am I excited to spend 20k+ on a cookie-cutter, egg-shaped sedan? No, I'm not interested.

baybal2• 10 years ago

I live in Moscow, the shortest eTaxi ride costs less than USD $2 - less than what I paid for a bus ride while living in Vancouver

mattlondon• 10 years ago

For me car ownership as a millennial is about "working smarter" and saving HUGE amounts of time and hassle.

I own two cars. They're not essential (indeed one is a "fun car"...) - I live in a city and use public transport to get to and from work and get most of my groceries delivered so I could live without if I wanted, but why would I want to make my life harder and more boring?!

The time-savings of car ownership alone are through the roof, not to mention the huge convenience factor. There are several trips I do often that take under 5-10 minutes in a car, but take 30-40 on public transport/buses. I can get to the shops and buy 10 bags of groceries and be back home again and unpacked in 30 mins, but on a bus it would take 30 mins to even get there! (and then I'd realistically only be able to carry say 4 bags home with me on the bus and not have anything frozen). I estimate that car ownership saves me 45-60 minutes on this sort of trip that I do frequently - you cant put a price on that sort of convenience & time-savings.

How much more code or other fun stuff could you do with an extra 3 or 4 hours a week?

Of course there are instances where public transport is faster too (like getting into Central London) so for me it works to have the best of both worlds - use whichever makes sense. It does not need to be a polar decision.

Other millennials I work with or talk to often seem amazed that I have one let alone two cars - I dont think they realise how cheap it is to own and run a second-hand car. Get a 3 or 4 year old Honda or a Toyota that has been looked after and you'll only need to insure it, service it and put petrol/diesel in it. Up front cost will be £3-5K (and it will last many years and still be worth something when you sell it), annual running costs about £500 - fuel obviously varies, I probably spend about £300-400 a year on petrol.

So for me all in about £900 a year to run a car, or based on my average Uber fare of about £13, about 1.3 Uber trips a week if you ignore initial upfront cost.

Shorel• 10 years ago

Endless traffic jams.

Fix that and we will buy cars again (nah, not really, not anymore).

May be self driving cars where we can enjoy time instead of merely suffering it would be an option.

datavirtue2• 10 years ago

They do not have any money and are not turned on by debt and maintenance costs of maintaining an automobile if they do not have to. I think the main driver is a lack of money and viewing debt apart from the the car, which is an asset. They are avoiding debt because they are cognizant of it.

datavirtue2• 10 years ago

Millennials Don't Care About Owning Cars, and Car Makers Can't Figure Out Why

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