Announcing .NET Core 1.0

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2016/06/27/announcing-net-core-1-0/

by runesoerensen • 10 years ago

717 313 10 years ago

blogs.msdn.microsoft.com

runesoerensen3• 10 years ago

Release notes: https://github.com/dotnet/core/blob/master/release-notes/1.0...

dogma11382• 10 years ago

I was really hoping for ARM support at least as far as RasPi goes for 1.0.

But still very good news I personally love .Net it's nice to be able to use it cross platform without having to work specifically around mono.

oblio11• 10 years ago

From what I see Samsung has been contributing on that front. They said in the announcement that Samsung has joined the Dotnet Foundation.

dogma11382• 10 years ago

Yeah, the only problem with Samsung is that they most likely going to make builds for the Exynos based SOC which isn't that wide spread. The ARM ecosystem is quite fragmented and depending on how you build your software it's not as portable as one would assume.

It's also not clear which instruction sets they are going to be aiming for Exynos started with ARMv7 + all the stuff that Samsung added to it, but the newer ships are ARMv8. The Raspberry Pi still uses ARMv6, 7 and 8 depending on the exact model with the newer RasPi compute, and Zero models still running the old BCM2835 ARMv6 CPU's.

So I'm hoping for a more or less clean stock ARMv7 and ARMv8 builds for the .NET core coming out sooner rather than later, I also hope they'll release the X86 version to more platforms than Windows since running it on something like an Intel Edison which comes with a 32bit ATOM CPU will be quite cool.

.NET is quite powerful and for my taste it's considerably better than Node.JS (I don't like Javascript, this isn't some technical observation just personal preference) but I do like C# and F# quite a bit and having the ability to run the same code across multiple platforms makes me excited for IOT/Embedded devices again especially considering that I don't have to work through some of the headaches that come with Mono (some pun indented).

Maarten88• 10 years ago

.NET Core does work for Windows IOT, on the Pi 2 and 3. So ARM compilation is already there on Windows.

gldev3• 10 years ago

After so many years microsoft finally presenting their tools in a more moden way. Never been a huge fan of .NET but i can't deny is a great tool hopefully people try it out on more platforms.

whatever_dude2• 10 years ago

I still can't shake the feeling that their naming is just confusing. I still am not sure what exactly is .NET and what's not.

gldev3• 10 years ago

Yes, that's a thing but at this point imagine just how much more confusion it could create if they change the name.

bigtones• 10 years ago

.Net is 14 years old now - if you don't know what it is by now you're probably not ever going to know. It's a cross platform runtime and a group of programming languages that run on it, just like Java.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

The naming is very confusing but it's better than the old name of ASP.NET 5. Source: I had to write about this for a book and it was a challenge to explain it clearly. :)

pjmlp5• 10 years ago

I went full circle, from a critic how they cloned Java back when my employer had the privilege to beta test .NET as a Microsoft partner, to someone that enjoys delivering solutions on the .NET stack.

For me the sweet spot will be when .NET Native becomes more mature and I can get Delphi/Modula-3 back.

akavel• 10 years ago

What do you mean by "getting Delphi/Modula-3 back" here? There are some implementations for .NET? or that C# is kinda similar? or something else?

krambs• 10 years ago

Have you tried writing a complex wep app/api with C#? It's an absolute joy to use. Python still has it beat for math and ML libraries, but for getting up a quick web app with robust (and easy) data queries (LINQ) it's pretty unbeatable.

gldev3• 10 years ago

Yes, LINQ is really good. With these news i am willing to go back and try it in some more project.

AndreyErmakov9• 10 years ago

Documentation as a PDF (constantly updated):

https://readthedocs.com/projects/aspnet-aspnet/downloads/pdf...

It's really just a copy of their informational web site content with articles by different authors, but still very conveniently combined into a single PDF useful for printing etc.

krylon2• 10 years ago

Thank you!

I have been looking for something like this!

ieverdream• 10 years ago

Giant leap forward represented by Microsoft!! Happened right there when I heard of Microsoft released SQL Server running on Linux...

donpdonp• 10 years ago

Am I the only one annoyed with the post title of "NET" and not ".NET"?

pduk• 10 years ago

Possibly removed automatically by Hacker News

BinaryIdiot2• 10 years ago

Interesting name choice considering they have already had a .Net 1.0. I mean I get it, I understand why they chose to make this more of a 1.0 release but for those already in the .Net ecosystem it seems a little confusing to me.

malekpour2• 10 years ago

It could have been more confusing by bumping versions. They first tried ASP.NET 5 and ASP.NET MVC 6 and EF 7 and there was no simple migration path from older version. Now they are all Core 1.0

recursive3• 10 years ago

Excuse me if this was already obvious, but the word "core" designates a new product line, starting from 1.0. Obviously, it's informed heavily from the old .net framework, but it's not backwards compatible with it.

BinaryIdiot2• 10 years ago

Sure it's obvious. Like I said I "get it" it's just core has always been a part of .Net just less directly referred to so my first thought was this was .Net 1.0's core until I started reading through the link.

Overall I think it's a good move just a little confusing (unless I'm the only one) for those who have done .Net work before.

lmickh• 10 years ago

This is just a personal view, but my first instinct when I read about product "CoolApp" and "CoolApp Core" would be to assume core is a subset of the first. Not a new and re-engineered product line.

I could see why others might see .Net Core as a parallel product as opposed to a new one.

interdrift2• 10 years ago

The dawn of a new era!

jderick• 10 years ago

Does this represent some kind of change for .NET? Why is it called 1.0?

enricosada6• 10 years ago

Because it's the first version of the xplat .NET (the .NET Core) supported by Microsoft (mono already does an amazing works as xplat, and have done that for years). It's not confusing if you work in .NET, the .NET Framework 1.0 was released in 2000..

malekpour2• 10 years ago

They reset versioning to 1.0 by renaming .NET to .NET Core

FLGMwt• 10 years ago

The full .NET framework (Windows only) will live on, currently at 4.6.2, I believe. ".NET Core" is the new open source, cross-platform subset of the full .NET framework.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

It's v1.0 of the "Core" open-source rewrite.

judah2• 10 years ago

It's the first version of .NET that's cross-platform, it's the first version of .NET that's totally open source, and it's the first version of .NET that can build self-contained apps (no need to have .NET Framework installed to run .NET Core 1.0 apps). See the release notes[0] for more info.

It's called "core", because it doesn't contain the Windows desktop UI toolkits, like Windows Forms and Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF), and excludes some other Windows-specific functionality.

Additionally, this is the first version of .NET in which apps can be totally self-contained. Previously, you'd need to install the .NET Framework on your machine to run .NET apps. That is no longer a requirement in .NET Core 1.0.

So, it's a pretty huge release. And really the first time in decades that MS has built it's premier dev stack with multiple OS support.

[0] https://github.com/dotnet/core/blob/master/release-notes/1.0...

osullivj• 10 years ago

Interesting. I'm guessing it doesn't support COM interop?

lotsoflumens2• 10 years ago

>> it's the first version of .NET that can build self-contained apps

I tried it - it puts 50MB of DLLs beside the "HelloWorld" executable in a subdirectory (on Ubuntu 16.04).

It's like shipping the entire Java runtime with every app.

WorldMaker2• 10 years ago

.NET Core is the new modular, open source rebuild of the .NET Framework. It's a lot of big changes, enough so that they decided to call it a 1.0 to acknowledge that A) it's a big new effort, but also B) it's not entirely equivalent to the full, previous .NET Framework it is intended to eventually replace.

dragonwriter2• 10 years ago

Its the first non-preview release of the product called ".NET Core"; it is, therefore, versioned as ".NET Core 1.0".

This is a different (but related) product to the .NET Framework (current version, 4.6) -- future versions of the .NET Framework will be built on top of .NET Core, which will be updated more frequently than the larger Framework. So, maybe .NET Framework 5.0 will be built on something like .NET Core 1.3 -- or 2.0, whatever.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

Live stream of the release at Red Hat DevNation: https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Linux/DevNation-2016

Starts at 0930 local.

AndreyErmakov9• 10 years ago

A bit unrelated, but I'm hoping to hear something soon about the future licensing model for the upcoming SQL Server on Linux. Do we get a free version without DB size / CPU / RAM limitations (but perhaps with some other restrictions) that smaller companies and startups can use in production?

I'm planning to run my future ASP.NET MVC projects on Linux and very much would like to know if a better SQL Server Express / Community Edition is coming or do I need to move to PostgreSQL (which I have already started looking into).

BrentOzar• 10 years ago

Microsoft already announced the SQL Server on Linux licensing:

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/dataplatforminsider/2016...

"A customer who buys a SQL Server license (per-server or per-core) will be able to use it on Windows Server or Linux. This is just part of how we are enabling greater customer choice and meeting customers where they are."

Same editions, same prices.

AndreyErmakov9• 10 years ago

Thanks for the information! Apparently I missed that in the news stream.

Sad to hear about that though. I was hoping for a break. Will just have to continue reading that PostgreSQL book I've already started.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

I would be surprised if there wasn't a free (as in beer) Express version for Linux, with a DB size limit like 10GB. Otherwise Entity Framework Core supports PostgreSQL, but there isn't any lazy loading yet.

AndreyErmakov9• 10 years ago

What I meant was that's just not enough. You can toy with it in a hobby project but in production that will be exhausted pretty soon.

chrshawkes• 10 years ago

I don't believe it works outside of using EF. Last I checked no database drivers existed for .NET Core for MySQL and PostgreSQL. For that reason I've stuck to Django.

insulanian2• 10 years ago

Why limit yourself with Express/ Community if you can get full featured RDBMS with Postgres?

dragonwriter2• 10 years ago

For a developer favoring .NET, the degree of .NET integration with SQL Server might be a compelling advantage for applications where the limitations of the relevant SQL Server tier weren't a problem.

AndreyErmakov9• 10 years ago

Because I really like the power of SSDT (SQL Server Data Tools) and how nicely it integrates with Visual Studio and would like to continue using that instrument if possible.

But I can't seriously build a complex product around SQL Server knowing that 10GB is the sky for my database.

RomanPushkin2• 10 years ago

You can go ahead with PostreSQL if you use Entity Framework and Code First approach. I used it many times and I was able to quickly jump from PostreSQL to MS SQL and back. It just works. With EF I don't see any reason why I should tie to any particular SQL database

AndreyErmakov9• 10 years ago

Personally, I prefer writing SQL by hand. That way I know exactly what will happen in a query. A database really is an important component of a system and shouldn't be treated like a dumb data store where you just throw in any stuff you like through an ORM and hope it sticks there somehow.

knocte2• 10 years ago

I was expecting they would fix the Uri class on Unix (https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/1745) before releasing 1.0 :( Now I fear their backwards compatibility policies will prevent to fix it later. So much for crossplatformness...

tacos6• 10 years ago

Way too many compatibility issues unaddressed by that PR to have a hope of getting anything changed there. Also it looks like what you (?) are trying to do could easily be solved with the Path.* and Directory.* path manipulation functions. No need to put a million apps at risk when you can wrap your call to Uri() with a three line helper.

knocte2• 10 years ago

3line helper? facepalm...

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

They've renamed some packages, so this might possibly be fixed in another one? I found the Ping class didn't work on any non-Windows OS, but it was fixed in a later package with a new name.

computerlab2• 10 years ago

A couple months ago I installed .NET core on a Ubuntu virtual machine running on the Windows 10 hypervisor, and was able to get a MVC5 app running using Visual Studio Code. As someone who really loves Visual Studio (it made me expect a lot more from my tools) and C# (it made me expect a lot more from my languages), it was an exciting moment. I actually took a selfie with my monitor.

It was still a little rough: the "getting started" instructions ONLY worked on Ubuntu 14.x and not Ubuntu 16.x, and my PR to the documentation pointing this out was nixed. (I notice they've since added a disclaimer: https://docs.asp.net/en/1.0.0-rc1/getting-started/installing...). I really hope to someday be able to build projects with React and a .NET core WebApi and be confident that my teammates will be able to get the project running on their macbooks without kms.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

MVC 6 is the version that works best with Core, although they don't really refer to it directly much any more. Both MVC 6 and Web API 2 are now part of Core. They're just packages like everything else.

computerlab2• 10 years ago

Good point, I meant MVC6. I confused the versions of ASP.NET 5 (which is now known as ASP.NET Core) and MVC6.

MagicWishMonkey3• 10 years ago

I wish MS would release a stripped down version of VS for OSX/Linux, but I know it probably won't happen.

Chlorus• 10 years ago

Does this count? https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/code-vs.aspx

girvo• 10 years ago

Visual Studio Code is pretty neat, and it's plugin system is very powerful: more and more languages are adding amazing IntelliSense and interactive debugging support for it. It's like Atom, if Atom was faster and focused on exposing nice APIs for autocompletion!

donatj• 10 years ago

I'm receiving

“dotnet-dev-osx-x64.1.0.0-preview2-003121.pkg” can’t be opened because it is from an unidentified developer."

I know full well how to get around this, but it makes me suspicious of what I've downloaded. Would Microsoft have truly missed this?

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

It is annoying. The preview MSIs are signed but the preview PKGs are not. The last release was so maybe it just takes some time?

BTW you can ctrl-click/right-click the installer package and select open to get the option to run it without fully disabling gatekeeper.

[https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3434]

leecow2• 10 years ago

Hey folks, sorry for the inconvenience around PKG signing. We're working on it right now and should have things updated soon.

Lee [.NET PM]

jadbox• 10 years ago

I'd LOVE to see some Linux web/micro benchmarks... particularly against Java, Go, Node, Python.

manigandham4• 10 years ago

The webstack is pretty fast, they're working on getting listed officially in the techempower rankings [1]. Here's an older article from Feb explaining more details. [2]

1. https://github.com/aspnet/benchmarks

2. http://web.ageofascent.com/asp-net-core-exeeds-1-15-million-...

tacos6• 10 years ago

From the release notes:

"We used industry benchmarks for web platforms on Linux as part of the release, including the TechEmpower Benchmarks. We’ve been sharing our findings as demonstrated in our own labs, starting several months ago. We’re hoping to see official numbers from TechEmpower soon after our release.

Our lab runs show that ASP.NET Core is faster than some of our industry peers. We see throughput that is 8x better than Node.js and almost 3x better than Go, on the same hardware."

e12e• 10 years ago

They link to some benchmarks in the article: https://github.com/aspnet/benchmarks (they're a little hard to read on mobile, but I think the tl;dr is "plenty fast" (or to quote the article: "Our lab runs show that ASP.NET Core is faster than some of our industry peers. We see throughput that is 8x better than Node.js and almost 3x better than Go, on the same hardware. We’re also not done! These improvements are from the changes that we were able to get into the 1.0 product.")

JustSomeNobody• 10 years ago

Me too. Especially compared to raw servlets, not the normal 50 layers of inheritance, enterprise crap.

616c7• 10 years ago

Scott Hunter of MS did an interview not so long ago re .NET, Kestrel (the new libuv HTTP server they build), and their march to build up as a top contender for Tech Empower.

http://dotnetrocks.com/?show=1291

They have a team who does it all for fun and has an impressive testing environment build out. Fascinating to listen to given today's new. I listened a few weeks ago myself.

I have friends at work who liked C# and moved on to frontend. The fact they are so less interested in .NET now is amazing to me as I finally want them to teach me to use ... on Linux!? I never thought I would say that. Haha.

manigandham4• 10 years ago

Even more details on .NET and Kestrel in a more recent episode just a few days ago: http://dotnetrocks.com/?show=1312

igouy3• 10 years ago

fwiw

against Java --

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan...

against Node.js --

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan...

against Python --

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan...

arthursilva2• 10 years ago

I find the binary-tree benchmark specially disturbing, it looks like the .NET Core GC/escape-analysis has some catching up to do.

igouy3• 10 years ago

Missed one:

against Go --

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lan...

montyedwards2• 10 years ago

I don't see mention of FreeBSD anywhere in the .NET Core 1.0 announcements -- has official support for FreeBSD dropped or been postponed?

sailingparrot• 10 years ago

* FreeBSD is listed on CoreCLR GitHub repo (https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr). See current build status here: http://dotnet-ci.cloudapp.net/job/dotnet_coreclr/job/master/...

* Also, see doc here (last updated in feb though): https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/Documentation/...

* Laslty, FreeBSD arrived on azure last week, so it would be quite surprising if support was dropped.

montyedwards2• 10 years ago

I understand, but none of those links are the .NET Core 1.0 release announcements.

And the download page for .NET Core 1.0 doesn't mention FreeBSD at https://www.microsoft.com/net/download#core

RomanPushkin2• 10 years ago

Do we officially have better-than-Java on all platforms now?

interdrift2• 10 years ago

Looks like it.

16bytes• 10 years ago

Language and tooling wise? Yes, or very close to it.

There's a lot to be said about the huge amount of value in the main maven repository vs. what's in nuget.

Java's decade long head start in that area doesn't seem so huge when you look at what the node.js community has put together in only a few years.

If you were considering .net on a new project, however, I would probably recommend comparing something like Scala. Scala has the benefits of being a "modern" language like C# with the full support of all or nearly all of the existing JVM projects.

That being said, there are a growing number of reasons to choose .net on non-windows platforms.

oblio11• 10 years ago

I'd argue that it will be a while for Nuget to catch up.

When I go on Maven Central I expect every library to be cross platform except for those marked as platform dependent.

For Nuget... all bets are off for now. It's the exact opposite, I assume that things are not portable or at least have not been tested on say, Linux.

rbanffy4• 10 years ago

Java's decade long head start in that area doesn't seem so huge when you look at what the node.js community has put together in only a few years.

It's easier to follow than to blaze a path. We have learned from Java and can, hopefully, avoid those pains.

PopsiclePete• 10 years ago

Yeah but so what. If the "best" language always won, why isn't the entire world running on Haskell and Rust or whatever? Java's eco-system is ginormous and it's deeply entrenched as the "corporate stack" in non-MS shops, with more than 15 years of history.

I'm afraid this is just too late to make a big dent. C# is nicer than Java, but not that much nicer to warrant switching over or rewriting your stuff in a very immature eco-system.

Maybe they're hoping to capture some of that elusive start-up market- and mind-share? That one is already pretty hostile towards MS...

Either way, this is a good thing, I just wish they had done this in 2005 or so.

simonswords82• 10 years ago

Microsoft's previous stewardship would never have allowed what they're doing now sadly. They must have lost years of progress with their previous strategy of locking things down. Still, better late than never - I love where they're going with .Net now.

tracker17• 10 years ago

I'm not entirely sure about that.. Node.js has made huge inroads in the 6-7 years it's been around, and Go is pretty popular in some circles as well. Also, look at how RoR grew. It's entirely possible we'll see a shift towards .Net away from Java as an option for lots of projects.

Especially as the tooling for micro-services and docker (or similar) gain traction moving forward. C# is pretty well supported, and at least here in Phoenix is about as common as Java is... can't speak for other metro areas.

I've been a pretty big node.js fan, and haven't used C# as much the last few years, but I wouldn't count it out. Two years ago, C# wouldn't have been on my radar for a new project, now it's entirely possible, given the opportunity for better cross platform deployments.

runT1ME2• 10 years ago

On top of that, Scala is a much nicer language than C#. I moved from being a C# developer to Scala and couldn't be happier. Best thing about C# is Visual Studio (IDEs are weaker in Scala land) but a bigger ecosystem and more powerful language make it for it imo.

enricosada6• 10 years ago

F# doesnt work ootb with sdk preview2. Work ok with preview1 of SDK (win/ubuntu/osx/docker), but preview2 has a bug, the fix is in progress ( ref https://github.com/dotnet/netcorecli-fsc/issues/12 ) and will be published a nuget package with fix soon.

acangiano• 10 years ago

You reported the issue 11 days ago. I'm surprised they just announced it with such a basic use case being broken. It doesn't bode well for F# as a first class citizen in their ecosystem.

ubertaco2• 10 years ago

Seconded. I saw the announcement and immediately went to grab the docker image and give it a shot with F# via "dotnet new -l F#" and go. It restored and built, but didn't run. So v1.0 is broken, I guess?

MichaelGG2• 10 years ago

F# is not a first class citizen. They pay it lip service because it's a far more advanced language and makes MS look like they're on the cutting edge. Plus the team that made it is responsible for dragging the CLR into the modern era (or into the 60s) by bringing generics. And showing off important features on .NET such as quoted code, async workflows, F# interactive. But a simple look at tooling and language announcements shows that the F# team is very underfunded.

enricosada6• 10 years ago

Bug was found too late, near code freeze for rtm, not enough time for fix.

fix is in progress ( https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/pull/1290 ) probably tomorrow, it's not a big problem one or two days of delay. Also because that's an sdk issue (preview2) not of .NET Core (rtm)

The f# support is in beta, c# was ahead obv, but that's ok i think, it's used as the language for the corefx, etc. vb is not working at all atm.

The .NET Core sdk preview1 worked ok ootb, see for example the https://github.com/SuaveIO/Suave-CoreCLR-sample working xplat (win/ubuntu/osx/docker). And the preview1 continue to work.

What i really like it's how the sdk it's evolving, using modularized components it's possibile to fix/improve/evolve the f# compiler/library, without waiting a new version of sdk. That's really good.

In the next sdk or rtm also the `dotnet new` it's going to be updatable, so np about template too

hurricaneSlider• 10 years ago

Odd it worked for me without any problems

phillipcarter• 10 years ago

To build off of enricosada's post, this is indeed being tracked and actively worked on right now. More information here: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3705#issuecomment-22889...

Known issues will also be updated, as will documentation on how to use F# on .NET Core.

louthy3• 10 years ago

I have just run into this problem when migrating my project. I see the build is nearly done; when it is, what's the best way of patching?

SoapSeller• 10 years ago

It's fascinating how Microsoft's marketing moved from ".Net - One platform with multiple languages" to "This is .Net - here some samples in C#"(without mentioning C# by name anywhere in the page).

I think that .Net would be much better if they had this kind of focus in dev side from the start.

*Hides from the f# mafia.

Pharylon• 10 years ago

Can you make a mafia with only three people?

aweb• 10 years ago

Funny, I saw far more than 3 F# presenters at NDC Oslo a few weeks ago..

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

There is another blog post here: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/webdev/2016/06/27/announcin... (they have 2 blogs, one for ASP.NET and one for .NET)

The stream on Channel 9 is about to start.

bad_user3• 10 years ago

I don't understand, why does the package name for Linux say preview2?

    apt-get install dotnet-dev-1.0.0-preview2-003121

Isn't this the final release?

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

The preview refers to the tooling (CLI, VS etc.) [https://github.com/aspnet/home/wiki/roadmap#schedule]

michaelmior• 10 years ago

Even if this isn't the final release, I'm confused why they would include version numbers in the package name at all. One of the reasons of having a package manager in the first place is to avoid things like this.

dreamsofdragons3• 10 years ago

Is this the release of .Net Core and ASP.Net Core, or is this just the .Net Core?

runesoerensen3• 10 years ago

First line of the blog post: We are excited to announce the release of .NET Core 1.0, ASP.NET Core 1.0 and Entity Framework 1.0, available on Windows, OS X and Linux!

dreamsofdragons3• 10 years ago

Interesting, I could swear that the first time I clicked the link it went to a product page. I never saw the blog post.

muratgg• 10 years ago

Both.

smcl3• 10 years ago

Damn, I wanted to learn more so clicked Learn -> Get started with .NET Core and ... 404

Not the best start :-/

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/index

lenkite• 10 years ago

Thats https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/index

smcl3• 10 years ago

Cool, thanks. Well the link on the page is somehow still not displaying this.

cyphax• 10 years ago

I have a Slackware server, I have tried a few times to get started with .net core but I've given up every time because it's just so unclear what I have to do and where to find everything. Maybe if I have Debian or Fedora it's easy, but I don't, and I just cannot seem to find a simple article that says: here download this, run that, and you're good to go. So I guess I'll try again in a few months.

daveguy3• 10 years ago

FYI, from the announcement. Probably the most important part at the end, italicized by me. Also note (elsewhere) that licenses are MIT and Apache2:

.NET Core Tools Telemetry

The .NET Core tools include a telemetry feature so that we can collect usage information about the .NET Core Tools. It’s important that we understand how the tools are being used so that we can improve them. Part of the reason the tools are in Preview is that we don’t have enough information on the way that they will be used. The telemetry is only in the tools and does not affect your app.

Behavior

The telemetry feature is on by default. The data collected is anonymous in nature and will be published in an aggregated form for use by both Microsoft and community engineers under a Creative Commons license.

You can opt-out of the telemetry feature by setting an environment variable DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT (e.g. export on OS X/Linux, set on Windows) to true (e.g. “true”, 1). Doing this will stop the collection process from running.

Data Points

The feature collects the following pieces of data:

The command being used (e.g. “build”, “restore”)

The ExitCode of the command

For test projects, the test runner being used

The timestamp of invocation

The framework used

Whether runtime IDs are present in the “runtimes” node

The CLI version being used

The feature will not collect any personal data, such as usernames or emails. It will not scan your code and not extract any project-level data that can be considered sensitive, such as name, repo or author (if you set those in your project.json). We want to know how the tools are used, not what you are using the tools to build. If you find sensitive data being collected, that’s a bug. Please file an issue and it will be fixed.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

The telemetry was in the original preview release of the tools with RC2. It can be turned off and I believe it won't be in the final stable CLI tools release, but that may change.

It's the same with VS and VS Code (and Atom too). There has been a move from opt-in (for older versions of VS) to opt-out. Although I do still see connections to MS domains with all the customer experience stuff turned off.

wvenable• 10 years ago

Microsoft is looking to do more data-driven design; this is the reason for all the telemetry in Windows as well. Raymond Chen pointed out an example where a button was removed File Explorer (prime real-estate) because the telemetry showed that hardly anyone ever pressed it.

It's unfortunate they are so tone-deaf about the PR implications in Windows.

brudgers• 10 years ago

The Story of the Ribbon video about Microsoft and data driven design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9kD693ie4

jenscow• 10 years ago

Like when they removed Macros from Visual Studio because according to telemetry only 1% of users used them.

logfromblammo2• 10 years ago

We have removed all the weapon deployment buttons from our nuclear subs, silos, and bombers, because telemetry shows that they are typically only pressed during unit testing.

Since we only have two recorded events of someone deploying a nuclear weapon in a real-world scenario, it should be safe to relocate those buttons off the main console, and just use the auxiliary functions button, behind the kick panel, next to the row of DIP switches used for selecting the button press function. Since "reorder coffee pods" was the last auxiliary function to be added, "launch nukes" will be next, so make sure you double-check those switches before pushing, coffee drinkers!

jobigoud• 10 years ago

a button was removed from File Explorer

Would that be the "Go up to the parent directory" button that was removed in 7 by any chance?

luciusism• 10 years ago

The "Compatibility Files" button was removed: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20150902-00/?p=...

Analemma_• 10 years ago

I choose to ignore this post so five weeks from now I can write an outraged "Microsoft is TRACKING YOU" article on Medium that will garner me praise and upvotes.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

Much quicker and easier than simply forking the code and commenting out the telemetry feature :P

616c7• 10 years ago

So random question: I like when MS people come out and engage the community like we are responsible adults and not like moronic children who need hand-holding and cannot decide for ourselves.

Since we all know the famous "Open Source is cancer" reign of Balmer oft-joked of here, I assume the related issue at hand is culture shift is good and less of a concern now, as opposed to a few years ago. But I am super happy when people like you drop by.

How do people like us on HN, Reddit, and Ars get you and those like you to say, see daveguy's manager[s], we will reconsider our avoidance of the MS tech stack because how daveguy did X?

Is this silly? I am not sure. But I wonder if I am the only one who wants people like yourself to thrive so MS keeps going in this direction.

sremani2• 10 years ago

I think that kind of engagement is present on their github repos.

daveguy3• 10 years ago

I am looking into ways to move everything we do off of MS Tech completely because I don't trust their direction with Windows 10.

I posted this because I thought it was an interesting and relevant part of the announcement. If MS was this straightforward and transparent with Win10 (allowing easy disabling of telemetry and the option to control upgrades at all levels) then I wouldn't be looking at alternatives. Although off by default would be better, but they would get approximately zero feedback with that. Best would probably be ask on install with a checkbox easily unchecked.

Whoever decided their .net tools telemetry and messaging needs to be in charge of that aspect across all products.

jongalloway23• 10 years ago

The best way to make sure they (we, since I work at Microsoft) get the feedback is by finding out where the product is listening.

A lot of products have UserVoice set up, a lot of dev product teams (dotnet, asp.net, etc.) are looking for GitHub issues.

For Windows 10 I'd recommend using the Windows 10 Feedback Hub - if you hate something about Windows 10, post feedback in the Feedback Hub before you uninstall it.

Visual Studio has this page that explains where best to submit feedback / bugs / feature requests: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/b8akas30.aspx

There are lots of us who see your comments on HN / Reddit / Slashdot / etc. but having been part of the Microsoft ecosystem (both inside and out of Microsoft) for many years, I can tell you that there's a huge difference between "I've seen some unhappy comments about X" and "Our feedback numbers show 68% of users want us to improve feature X". Also, specifics are important - a detailed issue report with repro steps and recommendations for what you'd like to see work a whole lot better than "@drunkvs LOL VS suxxxx ikr!!!"

Also, just because I'm an ocd fact checker, Ballmer technically didn't say "open source is a cancer". He said that Linux is a cancer, referring to the strong copyleft license requirements (https://web.archive.org/web/20011211130654/http://www.suntim...). [yes, I very well know that you can run software on Linux without that software being GPL. I'm writing this from Red Hat DevNation :)]

Regardless, I can tell you that our current CEO and everyone I work with is excited about writing great software that runs everywhere.

pjmlp5• 10 years ago

So it is bad when Microsoft asks to do it, but ok when Eclipse, Netbeans or InteliJ do it?

They are being quite open about it and how to turn it off.

SwellJoe• 10 years ago

I don't think the previous comment is suggesting it is bad. I think they're trying to stave off any "OMG! MS is looking at your porn!" posts, by highlighting the privacy policy of the telemetry; which sound reasonable to most people.

dd9990• 10 years ago

Yes. It's bad when Microsoft does it this way because it's opt-out. IntelliJ/Android Studio prompts you and asks you your preference first. I think Eclipse is opt-in but could be mistaken.

Retra2• 10 years ago

Microsoft is a bit more influential than those guys, no?

46844993• 10 years ago

I simply don't want to be tracked in any form regardless of whether it collects my personal data. Yet it seems more and more impossible these days. It's like "If there's nothing about collecting your personal data, then you should compromise".

michaeltyson• 10 years ago

Sorry to tell you this 4684499, but this website and most every other website on the internet knows how many page views they have and the IP addresses that are used to get to their website, etc. ...all because they have telemetry on the server. It's how they tell if something is working or not working. Not all telemetry is bad.

Retra2• 10 years ago

A router has to track you to know where to send the info you've requested.

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

Good news! Now time for all the library and framework authors to add support for .NET Core. I know a lot of people were waiting for RTM before starting this, considering the massive changes between RC1 and RC2.

I've started a support matrix project at https://anclafs.com. Feel free to file an issue or send a PR on GitHub.

enricosada6• 10 years ago

the asp.net core changed a lot between rc1 and rc2 (because moved to .net sdk instead of dnx). The normal libraries or console app not too much

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

It depends on if you want to run ASP.NET Core on .NET Framework 4.6 or on .NET Core 1.0. It's not just the SDK that is new, Core console apps are pretty recent too, as previously it was mainly for web apps.

dewiz• 10 years ago

You're missing akka.net there

jsingleton20• 10 years ago

Thanks! I have a big list of things to add but I'll check this is on there and add it if they are planning (or have already added) support for Core. It started as things I had talked about in my recent book.

swalsh• 10 years ago

Does anyone know if the changes planned to project.json are included in this?

romanovcode2• 10 years ago

No, they are not.

mrweasel2• 10 years ago

Does Microsoft have some diagram or something that shows how all the .NET things fit together (on Linux)?

The C# development I've done was... fine, but that was seven years ago and it's like Java in the sense that it's an amazingly complex thing to grasp and keep up with. Understanding how everything is layered is pretty complicated at this point.

soundoflight2• 10 years ago

I could be wrong, but I think this is what you are looking for. http://www.hanselman.com/blog/AnUpdateOnASPNETCore10RC2.aspx

mrweasel2• 10 years ago

Thanks, that sort of helps. It's still a little confusing though. Branding and naming isn't something Microsoft is awesome at.

uluyol• 10 years ago

Does this still use mono's jit and GC on mac and linux? Last I checked mono's GC is conservative and the jit isn't as good as the .NET one.

mellinoe• 10 years ago

It does not; it uses the same JIT and GC as the Windows version of .NET Core, and the code is also shared with the (full) .NET Framework that ships inside Windows.

Actually, this has always been the case for .NET Core, but you may be thinking of our older preview versions which gave you the option to run your app entirely on mono.

(I work on .NET at Microsoft)

atrudeau• 10 years ago

If I'm an experienced Python developer who develops a lot of websites and APIs using Django or Flask and SQLAlchemy, is there any reason to try this stuff? C# is a great language, but what about the libraries? What replaces Flask? What replaces SQLAlchemy? How do I deploy? Looking for some practical reasons to invest time on this if Windows development is not in my roadmap.

sakopov• 10 years ago

Flask - Nancy SqlAlchemy - EntityFramework, nHibernate Deployment - AppVeyor (cloud), TeamCity/OctopusDeploy (self-hosted)

Having said that, there is probably very little reason unless you're just doing it out of pure interest.

brianwawok• 10 years ago

No. If you really want a high performance Windows friendly server software, try Java. But honestly I would not use .net for anything past excel plugins.

oblio11• 10 years ago

Well, besides libraries, performance.

.NET supports proper multithreading (no GIL) and it is also much faster than CPython.

If IronPython gets ported to .NET Core (maybe it already has, I don't know), then you'd get those benefits for free.

sremani2• 10 years ago

In the public repos, there no substantial new work taking place with IronPython.

bad_user3• 10 years ago

The performance of IronPython was horrible and Python being an ecosystem of libraries built in C and wrapped in a Python API, it makes alternatives to be unusable, since most Python libraries that matter are incompatible.

BuckRogers• 10 years ago

For me, the GIL is a feature. Proper pthreading is for systems software as I see it. If you're rewriting Apache or IIS then you may need to bring in Rust, C(++).

I never found platforms like .Net and Java to be low level enough to write systems software, where you'd definitely want multithreading, and not high level enough to be as convenient as Python.

I write in Python and then use PyPy for more CPU intensive services. If I wanted multithreading and instances won't cut it, it would be a pretty hardcore usecase (for a lone wolf like me), I'd most likely also need no GC so I'd reach for something like Rust rather than C#.

I hate to say "no" to learning anything, but to be the devil's advocate this is how I've always seen it.

mcs_• 10 years ago

sudo apt-get install dotnet-dev-1.0.0-preview2-003121 ... some second later...

> This software may collect information about you and your use of the software, and send that to Microsoft.

Edit: Please visit http://aka.ms/dotnet-cli-eula for more information.

The link is a 404 on GitHub

shanselman2• 10 years ago

Fixing now...

shanselman2• 10 years ago

Fixed.

mantenpanther• 10 years ago

I've mixed feelings about this release, because it seems a bit early to me. Some fundamentals will change soon (project.json replacement) and I am still not able to get debugging to work in VS Code on OSX. The whole situation in the .NET Core space was very confusing for the last months and this trend seems to continue. This is sad, because I'd love to code in C# on any platform and that things would just work as advertised on the website.

Edit: Debugging works now for me, after the .NET Core Debugger was automatically installed in the background!

dimgl2• 10 years ago

It's still extremely buggy. Very difficult to get a .NET MVC app up and running (they're not using the term WebAPI anymore).

mattmanser• 10 years ago

I also think they've made a terrible decision, the first-class support for DI is a bad direction which has made many simple concepts like config settings into absolute farces that take 5 lines of code.

It's code "purity" over usability. It's putting the core dev team's principles over their customers actual need, completely violating KISS, DRY and YAGNI.

DI really is our generation's factories. I'm already seeing projects written by people who don't understand it making utter nightmare spagetti code, worse than any code I've ever seen.

It's nasty scaffolding code which is a symptom of limitations of the language, definitely not code anyone should ever actually be wasting time writing.

Instead of recognising it's a flash in the pan, the core team have embraced it and are trying to force it down everyone's necks, and a lot programmers simply don't get it and are making an utter mess instead.

tracker17• 10 years ago

I'm not sure that the tooling will necessarily need to be updated as the rest seems to be nuget packages, that should be easy enough to update as you build an application.

I'm more of an outsider now, as I've been doing far more node/js dev lately than .Net ...

yread• 10 years ago

Any ideas how to do GUI development with .NET Core? Is there a version of Xamarin? Are there plans to port Windows.Forms, WPF? There is this massive thread about it http://forums.dotnetfoundation.org/t/cross-platform-wpf/421/...

and an issue here https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/5766

WorldMaker2• 10 years ago

Universal Windows Platform ".NET Native" stack is aligned with (built upon/merging towards) .NET Core. It's XAML-based like WPF and Silverlight.

ETA: Other than not cross-platform. Other option is Xamarin.Forms and would be useful to see more Xamarin.Forms targets.

ickler9• 10 years ago

yea, xamarin.forms targets UWP.

and looks like there's a forms mac branch being somewhat worked on: https://github.com/xamarin/Xamarin.Forms/tree/mac

tbennet• 10 years ago

You can have a Web UI in desktop app. Just run the app with embedded kestrel web server and make all UI in HTML. And it will look pretty good an all platforms.

CatLight is one of the apps that do that - https://catlight.io

voltagex_2• 10 years ago

That's Electron, .NET Core (?) and Squirrel, all working together. Looks pretty cool, just pity the people on <20 megabit connections - these apps are getting pretty big.

jasselin• 10 years ago

What happened to the so called promised "dynamic compilation"? There was supposed to be a great improvement in compilation times...which is still quite long on the default sample.

I don't feel like Microsoft has improved enough for me to make the switch from .NET 4.x.

tracker17• 10 years ago

As someone who's mostly moved off of windows, the ability to build/target docker (linux) and dev on osx (already using vs code for node) is pretty compelling.

mwcampbell• 10 years ago

What's the current status of the CoreRT runtime [1], the one designed for AOT compilation? Can it be used for non-trivial programs yet?

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/corert

ngrilly2• 10 years ago

A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought I would write this, but it looks like Microsoft is definitely changing, for the best!

Two questions:

- Does .NET Core offers something similar to Go goroutines or Erlang "lightweight" processes?

- And something similar to gofmt?

oblio11• 10 years ago

1. I can't say for sure. Maybe this? http://getakka.net/

2. There's https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff926074.aspx + your favorite IDE which can automatically reformat the code. Visual Studio can do this. If you want to enforce things, there's: https://stylecop.codeplex.com/

jdmichal• 10 years ago

I don't know of any green threads in .NET -- at least, not built in. However, .NET does have a built-in thread pooling / task execution service. You generally interface via `System.Threading.Tasks.Task`[0], which has static `Run` functions, or use the `Factory` property to get the underlying `TaskFactory` for more fun. Since the executors are pooled, the creation costs will be amortized over your program's lifetime.

Then there's `async`/`await`[1], which is built on top of tasks.

[0] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.threading.ta...

[1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt674882.aspx

int_19h3• 10 years ago

I remember that a long time ago, .NET threading was implemented in such a way that it should, in theory, support Win32 fibers. It's why all the low-level .NET APIs don't use the OS thread IDs, but instead have their own IDs, and require explicit mapping.

I believe that it was abandoned as a supported scenario a while ago, though. But you can still see artifacts of that in the docs, e.g.:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.threading.th...

"The value of the ManagedThreadId property does not vary over time, even if unmanaged code that hosts the common language runtime implements the thread as a fiber."

niba• 10 years ago

1. https://github.com/dotnet/orleans, here is an article about it http://thenewstack.io/project-orleans-different-than-erlang-...

2. https://github.com/dotnet/codeformatter

edgyswingset• 10 years ago

Does .NET Core offers something similar to Go goroutines or Erlang "lightweight" processes?

Not quite the same thing, but F# has the MailboxProcessor<'T> type which is conceptually similar to Erlang processes and can be used in the same way.

louthy3• 10 years ago

Not out of the box, but this library does exactly that (with lots of functional niceness too). Disclaimer, I wrote it, so I'm obviously biased

https://github.com/louthy/language-ext

ngrilly2• 10 years ago

Just had a cursory look at the README. Is each lightweight process mapped to an OS thread? What is the minimal memory used by each lightweight process?

nitinreddy88• 10 years ago

They should have named it as xNET :) pronunce it as cross platfrom NET - dot net framework which works on all platforms

dimgl2• 10 years ago

Is some information missing from the article? I'm eager to use this but it's not showing me how to set up my `tasks.json` file.

youdontknowtho• 10 years ago

This is great news! I know that some of the devs from MS visit this site. Good work guys!

mikevm• 10 years ago

What is the licensing like if you're a vendor and you want to ship software based on .NET Core on your own hardware appliances? Can you redistribute the runtime, or do you have to pay?

oblio11• 10 years ago

MIT and Apache, apparently.

carussell• 10 years ago

The source is MIT and Apache, but that doesn't mean the binaries you get from MS are redistributable.

For anyone asking this question and not getting a sufficient answer, the safe route would be "build from source, then distribute that".

socialist_coder2• 10 years ago

I am interested in hosting a .NET web app on linux, so I read the docs: https://docs.asp.net/en/latest/publishing/linuxproduction.ht...

Is there any advantage to running a reverse proxy (nginx) if you already have Cloudfront in front of your cluster, doing the https & gzip work? And, if your web app serves literally 0 static content?

aphextron2• 10 years ago

And, if your web app serves literally 0 static content?

Even real time dashboards have some cacheable content. I would still want to use something like Varnish/NGINX in between.

socialist_coder2• 10 years ago

Mobile backend, every call hits the db

hackaflocka3• 10 years ago

Is there a primer somewhere that explains simply what the difference and dependence is between .NET (core, foundation), ASP.NET (core, foundation), Xamarin, Visual Studio (in all it's different flavors including VS.NET etc.) and Visual Studio Code?

I tried Wikipedia, and Microsoft's own homepages for each, and am even more confused.

I'm a hierarchical thinker, and a hierarchical tree explaining the above would be very very helpful.

Disclaimer: I haven't downloaded any of these yet. I usually don't until I've understood something.

Bonus question: If I want to develop websites and electron apps using: HTML, CSS, Javascript and PHP, what's the minimum set of technologies (or whatever it is that Microsoft is calling them these days) I will need?

oblio11• 10 years ago

Dotnet Foundation = NGO that manages various legal and org things for .NET. Think FSF for GNU.

.NET Core = cross platform software development platform. Includes a VM, compiler, tons of libraries.

ASP.NET Core = HTTP server + server side .NET libraries.

There is no ASP.NET Foundation, it's all part of the Dotnet Foundation.

Xamarin = .NET libraries for mobile development. Wraps Android/iOS native libraries.

Visual Studio = native Windows IDE for .NET and other languages.

Visual Studio Code = portable, Electron/HTML 5 IDE for Javascript/Typescript and other languages.

You probably want Visual Studio Code for HTML/PHP. But you should check out .NET Core, it can replace PHP.

By the way, if it works, it works, but I find it better to research and do at the same time. Downloading only after you've understood the org chart seems a bit too radical for me :)

hackaflocka3• 10 years ago

Thanks. Very helpful. Last 2 Qs: is Framework different from Core? And how does Windows Presentation Foundation fit in all this?

eperfa• 10 years ago

I might be missing something here, but does this mean that .NET Framework and .NET Core have diverged, and you need to take extra steps to keep code compatible with both?

The major differences between .NET Core and the .NET Framework: [...] APIs — .NET Core contains many of the same, but fewer, APIs as the .NET Framework, and with a different factoring (assembly names are different; type shape differs in key cases). These differences currently typically require changes to port source to .NET Core.

While I understand the motivation, this at first sight looks like something that will be with us for a long time, and could make life more difficult especially for library authors, who need to potentially target both 'platforms'.

[Disclaimer: haven't used .NET technologies for a very long time and might be horribly wrong here]

taspeotis• 10 years ago

There are new platform targets that cover the common functionality. Support in NuGet is a bit nascent though.

https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/blob/master/Documentation/a...

cpeth• 10 years ago

At my shop we have been using ASP Core since RC1 and have been quite happy with it. The tooling feels a lot like Node.js in a way, much different from any previous .NET development. It's awesome to have C# be deployable as docker containers on Linux hosts.

My biggest gripe so far has been that Nuget doesn't have a way to search only for libraries that are Core compatible.

If you are San Diego area and interested in working on Core, we are hiring. Inquire at christian.peth(at)millenniumhealth.com

Scuds• 10 years ago

I'd like to be able to write AWS lambda methods in .Net core.

hiram112• 10 years ago

Microsoft is about 5 years too late with this.

I'm sure their MVC stack is fine, but this isn't a problem needing a solution in 2016. There are dozens are frameworks in your favorite language that can deal with taking HTTP requests, grabbing data from a backend, and spitting it out as JSON. They all run fine on Linux servers, are easy to develop on Mac.

C# is a nice language too, but I'd need a compelling reason to jump from Java / Scala over to .Net. And JetBrains puts out products just as good as Visual Studio for every major language.

The one thing that might make me consider this would be MS implementing the actual valuable part of .Net to Linux, Mac, and others: the desktop GUI libs and Visual Studio GUI tools.

Of course this will never happen since the MS dev tools team is beholden to the Office and OS departments.

Instead, I imagine .Net core will not gain much traction.

merb• 10 years ago

I still don't understand what's a .NET project now, how to define one? what to checkin? is it still project.json? Or do we need another tool?

dblooman• 10 years ago

Any tutorial on how to build a .Net core web application specifically on Linux. There seems to be a lot to wade through docs wise with a lot of it still talking Windows.

Announcing .NET Core 1.0

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