Delta flight hit by firework while landing at Midway Airport on Fourth of July

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/delta-flight-hit-by-firework-while-landing-at-midway-airport-on-fourth-of-july/3957451/

by randycupertino • 17 days ago

175 370 17 days ago

nbcchicago.com

zamalek4• 17 days ago

I loved playing with fireworks as a kid, and surprisingly have all appendages and senses intact, I even considered pyro as a job - so I definitely get the appeal.

I just think it's time that we left it to the professionals. Unless you are engaging in science or physics, I don't see the value in letting them off yourself.

~~It's also weird that America's birthday is celebrated using a Chinese invention.~~ Edit: bad point, I stand corrected.

buu700• 17 days ago

https://youtu.be/YPX__g3LpUY?t=9

stevage• 17 days ago

You literally just explained the value.

dullcrisp• 17 days ago

That’s such a strange thing to say. Should we only use things invented in the last 300 years on the 4th of July?

netsharc• 17 days ago

Now I wonder who invented wheat, or sugar (used to make cake)?

Also hotdogs are made with Wiener sausages, which are from...

echelon• 17 days ago

No more using the English language, either.

afavour• 17 days ago

It's also weird that America's birthday is celebrated using a Chinese invention.

Not really. America is an amalgamation of all the countries and cultures that emigrated to it. It’s one of the best things about it.

greenavocado2• 17 days ago

I just think it's time that we left it to the professionals.

Pulling up the ladder behind you, eh? So nice of you to think of the children.

zamalek4• 17 days ago

Yes, because what I was doing was objectively dangerous. Dueling used to be a commonly accepted practice, yes even killing - pity that ladder was pulled up! What about the children's chemistry sets that included uranium, mercury, and cyanide?

cgyvbunji• 17 days ago

Fireworks for me, but not for thee.

consensus13• 17 days ago

Fell free to leave it to the professionals then. That has always been your right.

lotu• 17 days ago

Maybe leaving it to professionals would make more sense, but the majority of people aren’t in favor of it. I’m not even in favor of it and I had a couple fireworks bursting right outside my balcony last night. I was on the balcony and a ducked, though I would have been fine if I didn’t. Maybe require a brief safety training before purchasing? I’m not sure exactly what is going to reduce stupid behavior with explosives.

bluedino• 17 days ago

They really should be controlled a lot more - a nearby house was hit by some sort of Roman candle thing and completely burned down the other night.

There was at least a lot less "illegal fireworks" when people had the drive two states away to buy them.

SoftTalker• 17 days ago

Yeah not sure why that changed, when I was a kid you could only get sparklers and small stuff that stayed on the ground. Today I could get everything for a near-professional show if I wanted to spend the money.

andrewinardeer• 17 days ago

Capitalism. Get rich or die trying.

Loughla• 17 days ago

When I was a kid you could get actual m80's that were like a quarter stick of dynamite. Now you can only get little firecrackers that don't even blow up little green army men.

It's really dependent on your state laws. My state allows fireworks, so you can get most things but they are very limited in size and explosive content.

What it amounts to is that most cities/counties don't enforce their existing laws in this area because people would have a shit fit, and they would arrest so many people that it's kind of impossible.

Something something banning things doesn't really work to do anything but make criminals out of every day people.

fc417fc8027• 17 days ago

Today I could get everything for a near-professional show if I wanted to spend the money.

Not unless you're purchasing on the black market or (illegally) manufacturing it yourself.† The professional stuff is substantially larger than anything sold on the consumer market.

† Which is surprisingly trivial to do BTW but please be extremely cautious and very thoroughly master the underlying theory if you decide to go that route.

topgrain2• 17 days ago

Did you move? There are huge differences between states in what’s available, all the way from “just sparklers and other tiny stuff that doesn’t fly” up to “anything that doesn’t require an explosives license”, and within states areas near cities often restrict fireworks sales.

nozzlegear3• 17 days ago

When I was a kid growing up in Iowa in the 90s, my friends and I would hold Roman candles and bottle rockets in our hands and try to shoot them at each other. We're lucky we didn't get seriously injured, but it was all fun and games back then as long as you didn't tell your parents.

bengale2• 17 days ago

I hate sparklers so much. Watchings kids wave those things about makes me feel so sick.

fc417fc8027• 17 days ago

Rather than regulate fireworks out of existence wouldn't it be better to fix the problem at the root? Why do we permit such fire prone housing to be built just to save a few dollars?

infecto• 17 days ago

What alternative do you propose?

loeg• 17 days ago

The root problem is drunk people lighting off a bunch of rocket-propelled explosives, actually. Even if the houses were fireproof concrete bunkers, they'd still be starting wildfires in the grass/brush/trees. (And of course, it's more than "a few dollars.")

digi594042• 17 days ago

Why do we permit such fire prone housing to be built just to save a few dollars.

I know you didn’t mean it, but this question isn’t a question. It’s a statement formed as a question. It’s a judgement. It’s not a curiosity legitimately asking why.

There are so many good reasons why houses in the US are built the way they are. Some of which are…

1. Concrete/Brick houses retain heat and are often harder to cool. They also don’t insulate well. US Houses have been built as a means of controlling moisture, humidity, and cooling efficiently.

2. Stick built houses cost less to repair. Brick/Concrete houses require much more demolition to repair, rebuild, or change. While replacing a load bearing wall in a stick house can be done easily, concrete and brick require the entire wall to be torn down.

3. Humidity, Moisture, and Wind matter. When moisture gets into concrete and brick then freezes it can cause huge structural cracks. Whereas in stick houses, it’s not as big a deal. I had a house with a raised driveway and a walkout basement. The basement and driveway had to be completely demolished due to moisture cracks. If the entire house was concrete it would have been a write off.

4. Soil composition matters. In some areas the soil is not capable of holding the weight of all the concrete and brick. Causing structure issues later and endangering folks.

Modern building codes today in most places are pretty solid. They require 2x6 framing, they require testing of the airways in the house to ensure proper air leaking/sealing. They require the structure of the house be built with specific bolts. They require the framing to be done in a way that resists wind sheer and twisting.

The US Building codes have been revised consistently over time. This started with the nuclear bomb testing in the 40s and onward. They built houses, and then bombed them to find out how to make them better. We’ve learned from Tornados, Hurricanes, and more. These all have resulted in major improvements to building houses.

Today in the US we have no shortage of housing methods. We have SIP Framing, ICF Concrete Framing, Recycled ICF, Modular designs, etc. Most still go with stick built because it’s the better option for the majority.

I lived in a 2x4 house in TN that was built poorly and improperly. I spent 200k in 4 years repairing that house. Now I live in a 2x6 built slab house. This house was built by a luxury builder properly.

The difference between the two is astonishing. The TN House couldn’t go less than 82 degrees when it was hot and humid. The luxury house is in Vegas, it can be 50 degrees inside when it’s 120 outside. You can cut costs on stick built, but you can also make some of the best houses with it.

skybrian• 17 days ago

Doesn't help in California because people buy them in Nevada and resell them. Apparently that's easier to do nowadays due to the Internet?

https://oaklandside.org/2026/07/01/illegal-fireworks-police-...

Despite strict fireworks bans in many cities, including Oakland, they’ve become a year-round nuisance in the Bay Area. And one of the primary ways they’re spread is through the enterprising but illegal work of small-time dealers who obtain the contraband from licensed shops outside of California, sneak it into the state, and then sell hundreds and even thousands of pounds of explosives out of homes, vehicles, storage units, and even corner stores.

SilverElfin3• 17 days ago

In a lot of states, Indian reservations can also sell them. And they’re basically completely unregulated. It’s illegal to bring them or set them off into other towns but people do it. Hundreds of people. And tens of thousands have to be repeatedly woken up because of their selfishness.

bengale2• 17 days ago

When I was in North Carolina on a trip the chap I was visiting said I'd know if I was crossing over to South Carolina when I saw all the fireworks shops as it was illegal to sell them in NC but not SC. Funny to see.

(No idea what the actual rules are, just repeating what he told me)

cogogo• 17 days ago

Off topic but I went to a local town’s medium-sized professional fireworks show this weekend and there were none of those small flash really loud fireworks that shake you to the core. Not even in the grand finale. Oddly they are what I enjoy most. Have they gone out of fashion or do they mess too much with pets?

2OEH8eoCRo0• 17 days ago

I miss those too. I remember as a kid one display that shot a bunch of really bright white flare-like fireworks that were blinding and hung in the sky followed by dozens of those small but loud ones and it was memorable.

consensus13• 17 days ago

They sure haven't gone out of fashion on the streets of SF. My ears were ringing!

pylua• 17 days ago

You mean mortars ?

AnimalMuppet• 17 days ago

I believe those are called "salutes".

nozzlegear3• 17 days ago

That's what I know them as too. We used to go out to a family friend's farm for a fireworks show he'd put on every 4th, and he'd always have a bunch of those interspersed. They used to be my favorite growing up, because of the anticipation between when it launched and when it would explode.

PyWoody• 17 days ago

My town of <1k population had their fireworks tonight. I want to say at least half of the fireworks rattled your bones and jimmied your organs.

mleo• 17 days ago

There are such a wide variety of fireworks available now there is probably less need for those specifically. The show I was at still had enough loud booms to set off dozens of cars' alarms repeatedly during the twenty minutes.

mihaaly3• 17 days ago

All were purchased already I assume.

ButlerianJihad3• 17 days ago

Fun fact: “Midway” is also the name of an American manufacturer of video and pinball games, and a Pacific theater of war in World War II, the most important victory in US Naval history. (The airport took this name in July 1949, according to the English Wikipedia.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20080414001228if_/http://www.fly...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cup_Soccer_(pinball)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Tigers_(video_game)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampage_(video_game)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_2:_Judgment_Day_(ar...

It’s also the name of a district/neighborhood of San Diego which takes its name from Midway Drive, particularly where it intersects with Rosecrans St.

Okay, “Midway” is a lot of things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway

pezezin• 17 days ago

Midway's most famous and controversial game is, without a doubt, Mortal Kombat.

joezydeco• 17 days ago

MK was the most controversial, but Midway was also the US manufacturer of Space Invaders and Pac-Man.

OsrsNeedsf2P• 17 days ago

Am I the only one who thinks the risks are worth the reward? People are celebrating, kids are having fun. Yes a few people blow their hands off, but are we going to remove everything, one by one, in the name of safety?

anon7000• 17 days ago

Come on, it’s not a choice between complete anarchy and complete restriction.

It is very, very fair for society to be like “hm I think X activity is easy to abuse in a way that hurts innocent bystanders,” and then limits the activity to people with licenses and training or things like that.

Like no, it’s totally not cool to give a free pass to people who are putting other people’s lives and homes at risk. How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

I don’t care if it’s just your own life at risk. But you’re essentially saying that people should be free to play around with explosive devices in dense city neighborhoods. Fuck no, it’s fucking concerning to have an explosion rattle your windows. The people most likely to do this shit in the streets have no clue what they’re doing.

fc417fc8027• 17 days ago

You are arguing against a straw man. It was never claimed or even implied that society can't or shouldn't regulate activities that cause harm. The cost benefit tradeoff in this specific instance was called into question and the broader implications of a consistent application of the same bar across all of society was inquired about.

you’re essentially saying that people should be free to play around with explosive devices in dense city neighborhoods. Fuck no, it’s fucking concerning to have an explosion rattle your windows.

This is nothing more than emotional grandstanding. You could construct similar rants against a canister of gas or bottle of starter fluid. Obviously how you use the thing is important.

Lest you miss my point or think I miss the mark there are video footage of clueless people nearly killing themselves and others through entirely avoidable mishaps with gasoline abound.

The question is the amount of knowledge and judgment required, the likelihood of mishap, and the size of the consequences when one inevitably happens. Regulation needs to balance these things against utility and personal freedom.

Xirdus5• 17 days ago

How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

Probably the same way I'd feel if it burned down because my neighbor did some other stupid thing, like drive into it with a truck or try stealing electricity. There would be many feelings probably, but none of them would be "trucks/DIY should be illegal".

engineer_22• 17 days ago

Like no, it’s totally not cool to give a free pass to people who are putting other people’s lives and homes at risk. How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

We quite literally have a long and rich tradition of laws to handle exactly this.

protocolture3• 17 days ago

How would you feel if your house burned down because your neighbor did something stupid?

Burning your neighbors house down is already illegal. You and they should already have insurance. House fires in human dwellings have been a risk since we started building houses next to other houses.

The issue is that we (and I mean worldwide) have gone from legalism as a method of settling disputes and advertising penalties for destructive behavior, to outlawing risk entirely.

The crux of the matter is that no one stops to point out where the line is. Laws will come in to penalise low probability risks, people make these arguments "wont someone think of the children" and then lawmakers turn on to even lower probability risks.

If you had even a benchmark, "more probable than x is outlawed" people would be more understanding. And its not a slippery slope argument, because the slope seems to be the point and without a line the destination appears to be all possible risk.

consensus13• 17 days ago

You're not the only one. There are few things I hate more than safetyists.

georgeburdell• 17 days ago

I’m with you. I shoot off small fireworks for my kids and my immediate neighbor on our quiet street, and we have a neighbor a few doors down who invariably calls the cops. This has been going on since the 2000s when she moved in. If I’m fined, I just pay it.

xeyownt3• 17 days ago

You are above the laws if you have the money. Wonderful teaching for your kids. The world knows where that is leading.

chneu3• 17 days ago

Like 10 people died in my state on the 4th. A few were not directly involved in celebrations but were just doing their own thing.

Does that really sound reasonable to you?

colechristensen3• 17 days ago

Died of what?

25,000 people die in my state every year, 10 in a day would be miraculously low.

pandaman3• 17 days ago

I am fine with the professional fireworks shows but people setting fireworks inside residential areas, in all hours of night, for weeks during summer is just people being massive douchebags.

trollbridge2• 17 days ago

Right.

On the evening of July 4, fine.

Setting off firecrackers in urban areas otherwise is simply antisocial behaviour and should be treated as such.

somehnguy2• 17 days ago

Nope, completely with you on this. The logical conclusion of banning everything dangerous is everything in existence being banned. There are many things people do that I think are dumb or dangerous but that doesn't mean I think they should be banned from doing them.

globular-toast2• 17 days ago

Not true. I support anyone doing anything that is harmful to themselves. I don't support doing things that are harmful to others.

wonnage3• 17 days ago

"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" was supposed to be a comically evil statement in Shrek

chopin5• 17 days ago

But that is the maxim which drives almost everything we do on a daily basis.

fragmede3• 16 days ago

I hope the writer that penned that is fantastically rich!

alwa• 17 days ago

I have a beautiful memory from a summer night long ago, in Barceloneta on the evening of the summer solstice—the festival of Saint Joan [0]. I didn’t know it was coming, which was its own special sort of astonishment… walked in to eat dinner, walked out to a mountain of furniture on fire in the intersection, air thick with gunpowder smoke, bands of youths firing Roman candles at one other…

The specific image that comes to mind, though—I remember dozens upon dozens of ambulances lined up at the ready along the waterfront, their crews hanging out enjoying the madness until they would be called upon.

Having been raised in pretty cautious circles, that image struck me: the powers-that-be knew some proportion of bad stuff would happen. I figured that meant they’d “just make a law against it.” Instead of trying to stop it, though, they focused on preparedness and timely response.

Since then, of course, I’ve learned that The Law has a lot less raw power than I’d imagined against tradition and popular will…

Since then I’ve accepted as creed that the best and most human parts of life reach their most salient in the moments of paradox between principles. “Avoid safety risks” is correct, “living fully requires accepting risks” is also correct.

[0] https://www.barcelona-tourist-guide.com/en/events/sant-joan/...

mihaaly3• 17 days ago

No! You are not alone! That is very sad! : /

You know, there are millions of ways having fun that endangers no others. Millions!

(also small children have no fun, not at all! Woken up to be scared to shit, for f's sake, that's opposite of fun, the very opposite! Use your brain please!)

cucumber37328424• 17 days ago

The HN comments are a case study in sampling bias.

FatherOfCurses3• 16 days ago

IDK what has been going on but people in my area seem to be getting their hands on professional-level fireworks that sound like bombs going off. It used to be the roman candles and the fountains and a gentle background noise around the neighborhood but now it's insane.

There are plenty of parts of the world where people are free to enjoy themselves but also considerate of others.

duped• 16 days ago

If it were limited to one night of the year and people just moved on it would be fine. These days it stretches out for half the summer, practically.

adamredwoods2• 16 days ago

Fireworks affects others: fire danger, noise, lack of post-celebration cleanup. I've seen trash and unlit fireworks left in school yards that had kids coming in for summer school.

If people were more respectful with fireworks, this wouldn't be a polarizing opinion. Yet, here we are.

userbinator2• 17 days ago

Delta said Sunday a post-flight inspection showed no damage to the aircraft.

Not surprising, as a firework is designed to disintegrate and the outer surface of a plane is not flammable. Bird strikes are probably a higher risk.

7bees• 17 days ago

Many fireworks are designed to explode at altitude. The biggest risk is probably if the firework is ingested into an engine (also a major risk for bird strikes).

lazide3• 17 days ago

99% of them also don’t have enough explosive force to do more than damage a hand.

fc417fc8027• 17 days ago

Given the sheer quantity of energy that's already being continuously released in an engine would a small firework actually pose more danger than a bird? There's no bones in a firework after all.

FatherOfCurses3• 16 days ago

I wouldn't be concerned about damage to the aircraft, I would be worried about whether it messed with the avionics.

linzhangrun• 17 days ago

Anti-aircraft artillery...

msisk64• 17 days ago

I recently moved to the St. Louis area for a software job at Boeing. I'm actually in a nice quiet neighborhood in St. Charles right under the flight path for planes landing at Lambert Field.

The fireworks last night were insane. All around me folks were setting off commercial grade fireworks bursting hundreds of feet in the air. The house was shaking, my dogs were freaking out, one of them had a seizure. The air was filled with smoke and smelled of gun powder. It was one of the craziest things I've ever experienced.

Next year I'll definitely be planning an out-of-town vacation for the 4th to some location with firework restrictions.

I don't know what the planes were doing; I didn't hear or see any landing with all the smoke and noise.

greggoB• 17 days ago

one of them had a seizure

It's insane to me how much dogs are supposedly loved by such a large chunk of the pop, and yet people proceed to go apeshit with fireworks fully knowing how badly this affects them.

xeromal• 17 days ago

My guess because we just read of the seizure stories online but 95% of dogs are ok with it. Mine is. There's a limit to dealing with edge cases that most people have.

Not saying this is how I feel or act though.

chrismorgan• 17 days ago

Not just dogs; more than a few humans don’t cope with loud noises of various kinds.

chneu3• 17 days ago

Like 80% of dog owners treat dogs like possessions. When I say "like possessions" I mean they abuse them by physical means or by locking them into small apartments and not meeting the animals basic needs. It's wild how people trap dogs into small city/suburb boxes and then 'train' them to be good(break them). I stand by 80% if you account for global numbers and not just western/developed nations.

In much of the developed world it's weirdly mandatory to have a dog or cat. The way folks treat them is so messed up. Then these folks turn around and claim they love animals. It's nonsense. Most people don't need a pet nor do they treat them like an animal lover would.

But words have no meaning nowadays. Everyone is everything they want to be.

colechristensen3• 17 days ago

The degradation of canine genetics and behavior to the point where loud noises cause seizures is pretty absurd. I love dogs but I grew up around working dogs. City people have pushed dog breeding to the point where the desirable dog is riddled with some pretty extreme codependency and anxiety that they mistake for affection and companionship. The poor animals spending their lives in a few hundred square feet and completely alone for a large majority of their lives kinda sickens me.

thebruce87m2• 17 days ago

I’m not a dog owner but aren’t you supposed to play fireworks on your TV at increasing volume in the preceding days to get them used to it?

That seems a better option than expecting everyone else to change their behaviour because of a pet you chose.

billfor3• 17 days ago

Most dogs in my neighborhood are ok with them. My own dog loves them. I try to keep him inside only because I think it might be bad for his hearing if he gets too close. Beyond basic temperament I wonder if owner training is implicated, as more people become annoyed by fireworks they don’t expose the dog to them at a young age.

9dev• 17 days ago

All other animals too. There are tons studies about the effects of New Year’s Eve fireworks on birds, for example, that are devastating.

Most people just don’t care about anything but themselves. It’s disgusting me to no end.

tick_tock_tick2• 17 days ago

I mean I think most people would agree it's completely irresponsible and borderline absuive to own a dog and stay in nearly any city in the USA during the 4th.

People rightfully blame the owners it's not like this is a surprise for them.....

Amezarak• 17 days ago

What do they do during thunderstorms?

dylan604• 17 days ago

Next year I'll definitely be planning an out-of-town vacation for the 4th to some location with firework restrictions

Fireworks are not legal to shoot in pretty much any city. They are not legal in my city. That did not stop them from being used. In fact, they are going off around me the night after too

firesteelrain• 17 days ago

Depends on the state.

wonnage3• 17 days ago

They're legal to buy like an hour out of the city unfortunately

Also the 2A wingnuts think banning fireworks is akin to gun control https://www.tully-weiss.com/blog/fireworks-and-the-second-am...

fumeux_fume2• 17 days ago

In rural places where wildfire risks are very high, firework bans are usually enforced and respected.

geerlingguy• 17 days ago

As another STL resident, fireworks are illegal everywhere in the County (not sure if St. Charles as well, but probably), and our local muni PD even sent out multiple warnings about prosecution.

But our inner ring suburb was similarly full of smoke last night and the smell of many amateur fireworks shows.

Only a few in my neighborhood, but they were quite the production. I remember firing a few bottle rockets as a kid, but these were definitely a few steps above that! Sounded like mini mortars, maybe those boxes with a bunch of shells timed to go after each other.

chasil• 17 days ago

It would be more practical if major cities had "fireworks zones" with ambulances on call and perhaps some safety advice.

jandrewrogers4• 17 days ago

40-50 years ago, fireworks were largely unregulated across the US and were a major part of the 4th of July cultural experience. Dangerous, slightly reckless, and incredibly fun. I have fond memories of this as a child. It is a big part of American culture, like turkey on Thanksgiving.

Every country has rules that exist but which are culturally unenforceable. Today, fireworks are outlawed in much of the US because safety. Americans refuse to comply across such a broad cross-section of people that it is effectively unenforceable. The cultural contradiction is too strong, people won’t give up their traditions for mere safety reasons. Even the nominal enforcers don’t believe in it. No one is motivated to actually enforce it.

This may be unsatisfying for many people but the impossibility of enforcing fireworks bans in the US captures an important component of the American zeitgeist. It is annoying for me sometimes but I recognize that this reflects an aspect of American culture that you can’t just erase.

colmmacc• 17 days ago

You're right but in my experience in Washington state - Park rangers, forest fire marshals, and reservation police will all rigorously enforce the bans in places that are prone to wild fires. The local community won't have much sympathy either. People get how dumb that is. You also see bans enforced in very well off communities that basically have their own police force too. It's fascinating how these micro-cultures all self-regulate.

NitpickLawyer• 17 days ago

Even the nominal enforcers don’t believe in it. No one is motivated to actually enforce it.

Case in point, the ATC on this very flight said something along the lines of "Thanks for the report, I'll pass it on, but I doubt they'll be able to do something about it"...

mmooss• 17 days ago

Do you know where they are legal/illegal? Multiple places I know of have legalized them.

camillomiller• 17 days ago

Imagine thinking you are saying something positive about American “culture” with your comment. Wow. You would have sounded more true to it by just writing “MMMURICA, AMIRIGHT!?!?”

oasisbob• 17 days ago

Can only speak to my experience here in Washington, but 40 years ago you still needed to go to the reservation for the fun stuff. Even basic small firecrackers were outlawed in my county.

NelsonMinar2• 17 days ago

I realize as a Californian we may not count as "American" in this particular zeitgeist stereotype. But FWIW we have a firework ban in Nevada County that is widely respected. There are very few violations and the law is actively enforced.

The difference is we are in a no-joke dangerous fire situation and everyone recognizes it. Most people know better than to set off incendiary explosives in a forest. Anyone who shot off illegal fireworks would immediately be shamed and censured by their neighbors. I guess it's a form of commune-ism.

hdgvhicv• 17 days ago

Today, fireworks are outlawed in much of the US because safety

Hang on, fireworks are banned in the land of the free? But every kid should own an assault rifle?

sidewndr462• 17 days ago

Given American policing culture, I really don't buy that the police can't show up and start arresting you for public endangerment. They may not want to, but that is different

nearlyepic5• 17 days ago

this reflects an aspect of American culture that you can’t just erase.

Yeah, and that’s the problem. A whole country full of people belligerent enough to say “fuck you” to anyone who tells them “hey you probably shouldn’t blow your hand off”. What a wonderful place.

dmurray2• 17 days ago

Fireworks on holidays were also a huge part of Chinese culture, but they've been banned now in cities and the ban seems to be mostly effective.

China even has the same issue as the US, where they aren't banned at the national level so you can still drive two hours and buy them legally. And whatever your stereotypes, China has plenty of scofflaws who aren't going to give something up just because the government tells them to, and its police are, very broadly, less heavy-handed as the US

I suspect banning firework sales in the US would have a significant impact.

porridgeraisin• 17 days ago

Yea, people have tried for decades to ban deepavali fireworks here in india with zero effect. It's simply not enforceable. The police themselves burst.

goosejuice• 17 days ago

You could say the same about guns.

AstroNutt3• 17 days ago

Back around 1982, fireworks were a big no in my neighborhood. My friend across the street had some bottle rockets and he decided to shoot one off in the middle of the street. We didn't have a bottle to put it in to light it, so we wedged it between two bricks. He lit it and a split second before it went off, it tilted to point directly down the street. It fired off blazing down the middle of the road. At the same time a cop car just happened to turn the corner and that damn thing popped on the hood of the cop car. We scattered like ants. My friend that lit it ran inside, I hid in his garage under his moms car and the other two hauled ass home.

Well the cop parked out front and knocked on his door. His dad answered and they spent which felt like an hour (probably 10-15 minutes) talking about what happened. He got in big trouble and grounded. I stayed in the garage until the smoke cleared, then ran home. I didn't see him for at least a week.

Your post reminded me about that incident. They were regulated in Fort Worth Texas 44 years ago. I haven't thought about that day in years! LOL! Thanks for the fun memory.

mihaaly3• 17 days ago

Yes, the typical endangering or hurting others for the sake of fun culture, very very precious and rich culture indeed! : /

pseudohadamard• 17 days ago

I don't know what it's like now but that sounds like Europe in the 1980s. I remember going there from a country that restricted anything fancier than a sparkler and being amazed at all the cool things you could get. Blowing holes in snow forts with the larger Chinabölller was particularly fun.

rayiner• 17 days ago

The twenty something guys in my neighborhood set off fireworks from a small boat in the river behind my house. Same guys took an ATV out on the ice when the river froze this winter. They haven’t died yet!

I draw the line at setting the tinderbox that’s california on fire however.

hollerith• 16 days ago

The police erased fireworks explosions in my neighborhood in the Bay Area.

Two years ago, I heard thousands of explosions in the month of July, same as every year. Then last year, the police posted signs reminding people that fireworks are illegal and that they would begin issuing fines to violators. The number of explosions was about 30% of usual (i.e., still many hundreds of explosions). This year I've heard exactly one explosion (on July 03).

I unambiguously welcome this change. You mention safety, but fireworks are also hard on neighbors with PTSD.

Is littering also in your opinion "an important component of the American zeitgeist"?

Bicycle theft?

gilbetron• 16 days ago

At least for where I grew up, you seem to have history backwards. 40-50 years ago fireworks were largely outlawed - the best I could play with as a kid were smokebombs, snaps, sparklers, and small fountains. Now fireworks are pretty much completely legal, even municipal grade cannons. This is why they are going off all over the place on July 4th.

klaff2• 16 days ago

I don't agree. I think it's a choice that each area has made between law enforcement and local governance. Regarding the St. Louis area, it really depends on which jurisdiction you are in. St. Louis County has over 90 municipalities. The neighboring counties are also fragmented but to a lesser degree. There are areas (mostly more rural) where it is legal and loud, some where it's not legal but enforcement is lacking, and there are quiet areas in which I assume enforcement does happen.

runako• 16 days ago

impossibility of enforcing fireworks bans

Because fireworks are not usually homemade, enforcing bans is pretty easily done by cracking down on retailers who illegally sell them. They are easy to find (have to advertise) and have a lot to lose by breaking commerce laws. Notably, cannabis grows naturally in many climates in the US (so retail not strictly necessary) and we still ban it.

IIRC our state long prohibited the kind of fireworks that go into the air (roman candles, etc.) and only allowed sparklers and similar ground-effect pyrotechnics. Of course, the odd person would drive hundreds of miles with fireworks in their trunk, but overall the ban was fairly effective.

No one is motivated to actually enforce it.

All that said, I am a fan of removing laws that continue to exist only as a pretext for targeting disfavored groups. A lot of the rot in the country is downstream of us not really being a nation of laws.

stryan• 16 days ago

This may be unsatisfying for many people but the impossibility of enforcing fireworks bans in the US captures an important component of the American zeitgeist. It is annoying for me sometimes but I recognize that this reflects an aspect of American culture that you can’t just erase.

I've taken to describing this aspect of Americana as "the fatal need to have a pretty good time", after the Minced Mockingbird post[0].

[0] https://www.mincingmockingbird.com/products/fatal-american-n...

techcode• 17 days ago

That description sounds like every New Years Eve in The Netherlands.

Few days ago a law that forbids non professionals to set off fireworks started applying... We'll see if that makes any difference.

messe• 17 days ago

Denmark too. Aarhus looks like a war zone from the smoke on new years.

ricardobayes2• 17 days ago

We'll see if we ever get something like that in Spain. I guess not, fireworks are just too deep in the culture here.

thx67• 17 days ago

STL is famous for having a large number of folks shooting guns into the air on New Years. So much so that there are warnings to not go outside. Stay safe.

SilverElfin3• 17 days ago

There have also been incidents of people being hit by those bullets. It’s just so reckless and dangerous for people to do that. But there’s always someone doing it …

incanus77• 17 days ago

Next year I'll definitely be planning an out-of-town vacation for the 4th to some location with firework restrictions.

Then like me you can just worry about whether some dipshit is going to burn your house down while you're away.

msisk64• 16 days ago

It'll be fine; the house is insured. ;)

Luckily it's so wet here at the moment the fire risk is minimal.

ricardobayes2• 17 days ago

Fallas festival in Valencia is not your thing then. But at least I realized why there is an audiologist on every corner.

celrod• 17 days ago

A few years ago, on July 4th one of my mom's dogs freaked out, somehow managed to escape, and got hit by a car before my mom found her. She loved that dog, regularly attending nose work competitions with it. One of your pets getting a seizure must be harrowing for both you and the dog.

I don't light fireworks.

stasomatic• 16 days ago

My female Weimaraner was terrified of thunderstorms and fireworks. Once, she managed to squeeze herself under my Mini Cooper. I didn't know at the time that panic vests were a thing. The breed is a gun dog ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I forget how we managed to get her out from under there, but it took a bit. My Akita doesn't care, he checks the balcony, yawns, and back to his toys. But he is a afraid of air balloons and blow up Christmas Santas. Go figure.

fumeux_fume2• 17 days ago

My opinion about how people use fireworks changed when I adopted a dog from a shelter and discovered how deeply traumatizing booms are to her. From chatting with other dog owners this seems to be common. If my neighbors could see the extent fireworks affect the same friendly, silly pup their children love greeting everyday, they would probably think twice about how they use them. We can manage the night of the 4th by traveling out of town, but the 1-2 weeks of random booms that follow the holiday are really tough for us.

duskdozer• 17 days ago

You certainly have a higher opinion of neighbors than I do. As far as any action that negatively intrudes on others, it seems the most likely responses are either that they are allowed to do what they want and you need to deal with it, or to do it even more now that they know it bothers you as punishment for you daring to ask.

crassus_ed• 17 days ago

I used to love the tradition of lighting fireworks but I think the way people have been using them has changed in the last decade. Everything seems to transform into a war zone and some people do incredibly dangerous things.

FatherOfCurses3• 16 days ago

Yeah first 4th of July as a dog owner. He did relatively OK inside but we had a hell of a time taking him out for a walk. Every time we thought everyone was done blowing their loads someone else refueled and things started over again.

moralestapia• 17 days ago

one of them had a seizure

People might say you just made this up for internet points. But this is real, this is an actual thing that happens to dogs (and other pets) when exposed to prolong fireworks noise!

msisk64• 16 days ago

Yeah, it really happened. But to be fair the little dog in question is prone to seizures and all the booming certainly set this one off. She was fine after things calmed down around midnight.

AmVess• 17 days ago

I moved across states a few years ago. In the old neighborhood, people would be drunk and lighting that crap off for hours and hours. Completely moronic and thoughtless.

Here, it is illegal. First offense is a fine, second offense is jail.

fortran77• 16 days ago

Howdy, neighbor! (We are on Main Street)

PaulHoule• 16 days ago

I spent a year in Germany and Oh God do Germans shoot off fireworks for the New Year. Most of the time Germans live up to the stereotype of neat, clean, quiet, polite but the next day there is a mess of firework wrappers all over the street.

scrapcode• 16 days ago

out-of-town vacation for the 4th to some location with firework restrictions.

You have quite the faith in code enforcement.

jtbayly4• 16 days ago

Given your statement of "hundreds of feet" I guess I can take the rest of your post with a large pinch of salt, too.

msisk64• 16 days ago

I don't know fireworks that well, but these appeared to be the commercial type, with a large lift-charge that lights the sky up with a lightning style flash followed by a sky burst and the house-shaking boom of the sort I usually associate with shows put on the city or whatnot. I had two of these "shows" going on just north of me and one to the south.

And I have a pretty good idea of heights around here. I mentioned I work at Boeing on flying things so I track the ones that fly over me. They're usually about 1000 to 1500 ft. AGL on approach when they go over my house and about 200 knots. Southwest has the most flights into and out of St. Louis so it's usually a 737, and those have a wingspan of just over 100 feet on the newer models.

So yeah, I'd say these fireworks were going up at least 300 feet.

ButlerianJihad3• 16 days ago

On Reddit last year, I found a link to a City of Phoenix dashboard that monitors all the county-wide emergency dispatch calls that are not suppressed for privacy/security reasons. I watch it throughout the day and night, especially on holidays like this one.

I counted upwards of 23 fires on the map at any single point in time, between sunset and 11pm. Most of those calls indicated either debris fires, or Dumpster fires, but there were also roof fires and vehicle fires, including one police-involved car accident.

I stayed inside all weekend after attending church on Saturday evening. The Air Force flyover was not visible in my area. I immensely enjoyed the celebrations on live streaming. And singing my heart out, creating new playlists.

agensaequivocum2• 16 days ago

Next year I'll definitely be planning an out-of-town vacation for the 4th to some location with firework restrictions.

Opposite for me, I plan on vacationing to somewhere I can have more fun with my kids.

emeril• 16 days ago

-having lived in MO, yeah, pretty scary

-don't miss the hill restaurants

-maybe still stick around if you own a house such as to help prevent it being set ablaze that night inadvertently...

SilverElfin3• 17 days ago

I see way too many trashy people setting off commercial grade illegal fireworks in the middle of crowded cities and neighborhoods. It is incredibly disruptive and damaging. Vets are traumatized. Dogs are traumatized. And sleep deprived parents have to repeatedly put babies back to sleep. It is insane that police do not enforce laws against these criminals.

IG_Semmelweiss• 17 days ago

we have multifelons (+10 arrests) running around and committing new crimes -often killing- in nearly all major urban centers.

What makes you think police are going to pay heed to teens with heavy pyrotecnic ordinance ?

And even if they did, would the DA prosecute ?

bayarearefugee• 17 days ago

It is insane that police do not enforce laws against these criminals.

Not that I've known a ton of people who work for local police departments, but the majority of the ones I have known are exactly the type of people who are likely to partake in illegal residential fireworks around the 4th of July.

eBombzor• 17 days ago

Get rid of fireworks, replace with drone shows. Sick of fireworks and the resulting pollution that comes with them.

petre2• 17 days ago

When clowns are in charge the country looks like a circus.

monksy• 17 days ago

This is more of an issue with operating during the week before and after 4th of July in Chicago. As I'm writing fireworks are going off.

Fireworks (display) kinds are illegal in Illinois and there are absolutely no fireworks shot off the before and after 4th of july. Nothing happens nothing to see here.

ggm• 17 days ago

Flying into London on November 5 a decade or so ago I was struck by how similar things looked to WW2 bombing run photographs, except it was in colour.

A moment of pause.

(The Australian War memorial has a museum with the nose of a Lancaster bomber, and they run footage inside it (or a mock up, they have a lot of stuff) projected onto the floor and forward view taken by bombing observation film crews during the raids on Germany)

khurs• 17 days ago

Times have changed in UK.

We all grew up doing our own bonfires and fireworks, but now it's mostly organised large displays at public parks and other venues.

ljf• 16 days ago

My children's school ran a great small bonfire and fireworks night that was well attended and received (and raised funds for the PTA/school).

Sadly after a conversation with the school's insurance company, we haven't been able to run one since due to the cost of cover.

Given the incident widely reported incident here in the UK, some years ago, I think people are more aware of the risk that running one of these events entails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_M5_motorway_crash#:~:text...

anshumankmr• 17 days ago

Should ideally have an exclusion no fireworks/drones zone near airports esp. on such a day IDK that is just me.

xeyownt3• 17 days ago

The amount of downvoted posts here is quite indicative.

jacinda• 17 days ago

Last night some neighbors set off some illegal fireworks a few blocks from our house. My husband was out on a walk when the paramedics arrived because one of them had burned off half his face and another his arm.

vasco• 17 days ago

Just a few days ago HN assured me nobody ever got injured from fireworks https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48711981

14• 17 days ago

What is sad is that a few irresponsible people are always what end up ruining something that most can manage to do without endangering others. Growing up it was a yearly thing where my family would go somewhere safe away from public and set off fireworks.

Fireworks are a lot of fun. Sure not everyone's thing but many enjoy them and can manage to use basic safety and not endanger anyone.

I just can't believe a firework going off right at an airport was not intentional. I believe someone was most likely thinking "I'm gonna lite this off right by a plane for all to see my awesome show!". Not trying to hit the jet but rather just look at me people isn't this awesome!? No it is not.

This is the type of thing that ends up getting fireworks banned or more controlled for the rest of us.

Reminds me of the idiot who flew his drone over an active forest fire while crews were actively fighting it causing the helicopters or water bombers to have to disengage the fire until the drone was gone. Then drone rules get tightened for the average guy just wanting to have fun responsibly.

cucumber37328424• 17 days ago

What is sad is that a few irresponsible people are always what end up ruining something that most can manage to do without endangering other

This only happens because we (you, plural) let it. You can simply not let it be ruined despite the irresponsible people.

seanmcdirmid2• 17 days ago

When I lived in Beijing (10+ years ago), CNY would be constant fire crackers and fire works (but more bang bang than flashy lights) from 9PM to 3 or 4 AM. And I don’t mean just constant fire works, I mean what it must have felt like being bombed by multiple fleets of bombers in WW2. You should just hear constantly fire work shrapnel hitting your window.

I flew in once on CNY and could see constant flashing all below during our descent into Beijing capital. The whole country side looked like it was exploding, and the villages were nestled on mountains or in mountain valleys to great effect.

rimworld• 16 days ago

Ban celebration for everyones safety ffs

waltbosz4• 16 days ago

My uncle's house is under the landing path for Midway Airport. His whole house shakes when a plane comes by. From his front yard you can easily read the numbers on the plane's body.

Parts of the fence surrounding the airport is across the street from a neighborhood. You can sit and watch planes landing not too far above your head. I'm not surprised a consumer grade firework was able to hit one of those planes.

rbanffy10• 16 days ago

I am a bit surprised someone with a house placed like your uncle would feel it’s ok to light up fireworks under an airport approach path.

waltbosz4• 16 days ago

From his house, no I don't think a consumer mortar could hit a plane. The planes weren't that low.

But the area surrounding the airport is very densely populated. Given all those people, I'm not surprised some dumb kid (or adult) lit fireworks near the airport.

Also, most fireworks are illegal in Illinois. But it's only a 30 minute drive from Chicago to Indiana.

LtWorf• 16 days ago

I am a bit surprised they let people be there. All that security and anyone can buy a gun and shoot down planes? :D :D :D :D

DamnInteresting• 16 days ago

Here in Salt Lake City, a prolonged drought has made it a tinderbox. Home fireworks are prohibited, and there's signage up all over the place warning of the danger. And yet, the firework stands popped up in grocery store parking lots like they do every year, and people lined up. Bananas.

Luckily no new fires started around here, but we also have the local "Pioneer Day" on July 24 that starts up a fresh round of pyrotechnics.

fy20• 16 days ago

As a European reading these comments I never would have expected fireworks in the US to regulated at all. In my country you can buy whatever you want. The most popular time to use them is at New Year, and even in supermarkets they have popup stalls selling then. If you go out at midnight you can see fireworks in every direction.

I live in a capital city thats surrounded by forest. I've never heard of any forest fires caused by them, but I guess it's because winter - we often have snow that time of year.

It definately has a big effect on air quality though, the smell of gunpowder lingers until the next day. We are far from the sea so there is little wind that time of year, and the cold temperatures cause the smoke to stay close to the ground (same issue with wood burning stoves which are common in older houses).

Delta flight hit by firework while landing at Midway Airport on Fourth of July

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