The Problem with the Ferrari Luce EV Offers a Lesson for Every Leader

https://www.inc.com/connor-jewiss/the-problem-with-the-ferrari-luce-ev-offers-a-lesson-for-every-leader/91351070

by connorjewiss • 2 months ago

34 93 2 months ago

jeffrallen• 2 months ago

It should not be a surprise that if you hire Ive to design something, it's gonna look like an iPad. It should not be a surprise that Ferrari stakeholders don't want an iPad car.

This is just gross incompetence all around.

Above all, Ive had an ethical responsibility to protect his clients from harming themselves by refusing the commission.

raverbashing• 2 months ago

Given it's Ive I'm surprised he didn't try to make the car as thin as possible

Mashimo6• 2 months ago

And you have to flip it over and charge it from the underside.

imp0cat• 2 months ago

The jokes practically write themselves, right? :)

amelius3• 2 months ago

Or make it look round:

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-airpods/airpods-max-2/starlig...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Multipla

binarymax2• 2 months ago

Or arbitrarily remove something that everyone takes for granted. Like the glove box or the door handles.

shmeeed• 2 months ago

Let' just hope it doesn't bend.

amelius3• 2 months ago

I mean, if Rolex hired Apple and gotten the Apple Watch then nobody except Jony Ive would have been happy either.

gbil• 2 months ago

I hope that at least they keep the one great thing from this exercise, the controls-UI bundle. Looks really great, intuitive and unique enough for the brand

michaelteter• 2 months ago

I don’t possess the design vocabulary to properly roast the design, but it looks like an amateur’s first sketch at a “car of the future”.

Or it look like a modern successor to the Pontiac Aztek.

I can only imagine what the Italian designers have to say about it…

madduci• 2 months ago

Don't worry, they are all pissed off

Lucas12546• 2 months ago

When I first saw this car, I thought it was ugly and expensice. Look at Chinese cars, they're cheap, stylish, and comfortable. I really envy Chinese people who can buy those cars.

Mashimo6• 2 months ago

The inside looks so freaking cool: https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/ferrari-luce-design

Look at those tactile buttons and knobs. For cruise control and wipers. And the flip switches for Infotainment / climate.

The "LUNCH" mode button that you have to pull and then shows a glowing ring. Feels 90s science fiction. I wonder if I can 3D print a replica, not sure for what yet, but I want it. It's literally inspiring for me.

The outside though :(

jonplackett3• 2 months ago

I think all cars should have a ‘LUNCH’ button.

It can be sponsored by Uber Eats and whenever you press it, it automatically orders a burger to your current GPS co-ordinates.

shalmanese• 2 months ago

Americans when describing their ideal car interior: "Imagine a burger ordering button".

embedding-shape2• 2 months ago

Look at those tactile buttons and knobs. For cruise control and wipers. And the flip switches for Infotainment / climate.

Are we looking at the same images? The steering wheel (https://ferrari-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/image/ferrari/...) has a bunch of switches, yeah, but the Infotainment/climate (https://ferrari-cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/image/ferrari/...) seems to be all touchscreen buttons on the huge iPad-like device in the middle? Like most modern cars, it looks incredibly difficult to use and outright dangerous.

bob0014• 2 months ago

Those aren't touch screen buttons. Clear in any non-frontal image of which there's plenty.

jorvi2• 2 months ago

Are we looking at the same interior? It is ugly as sin. Looks like a mockup render that is going to need ten more iterations to look good.

Mashimo6• 2 months ago

If you want to discuss it, maybe explain it?

I like tactile knobs and switches. I can see my self enjoying using them, similar to a fidget toy. Or an earbuds case that you can close with a satisfying SNAP.

Look at the infotainment, you have the handle bar thing that you can feel and thus rest your hand vertically. But instead of just a row of flip switches, in the middle you have the depressed button and a wheel. All of this helps using it without taking your eyes of the road.

I don't have a way with words, but there is also something about the instruments cluster. Looks cool I guess. Reminds me of 80s / 90s Mercedes maybe? Shows everything without being too much.

roryirvine• 2 months ago

You can certainly see the modern Apple influence: 4 different instrument panels, 7 different corner radii.

The control panel is the odd one out at the moment, but perhaps in the next version they'll "upgrade" it to a lop-sided rhomircle instead. Maybe even find a way to make the seatbelt foul the accelerator pedal when in use, in homage to the Magic Mouse.

ryandrake• 2 months ago

The outside though :(

The exterior of basically all cars from Hyundai up to (now) Ferarri is currently stuck at some kind of aerodynamic / fuel efficiency local maximum that dictates that they all look like the same boring bar of soap. Nobody seems willing to budge on this and climb down the hill even a bit.

As problematic (quality-wise) as the Cybertruck is, at least they went full-send on the design. It might look ugly but at least they tried to not make it look like every other truck on the market.

vmsp• 2 months ago

With the kind of press it’s getting, I bet this model will outsell all others made in the last 10y. I don’t remember the last time a Ferrari was on the news.

bob0014• 2 months ago

Yes, people spend $640,000 based on some news...

jonplackett3• 2 months ago

As apposed to spending it based on feels?

For people who buy a Ferrari the price is not part of the equation at all.

Also Ferrari’s whole game is demand and supply manipulation - there are always more people who want a Ferrari than can actually buy one. These will all sell out whatever happens.

soco2• 2 months ago

That goes the other way as well: who spends 640k on a car won't care much about the opinion of influencer X on platform Y.

dist-epoch3• 2 months ago

Exactly, everybody will instantly recognize it, like the Cybertruck.

While all the other recent Ferrari's are basically a blur, I bet 95% of people could order then roughly by year.

bob0014• 2 months ago

will instantly recognize it,

It looks like a generic Hyundai. If not for the badge I'd have assumed it was some Chinese mid tier EV.

kumarvvr• 2 months ago

I just want to know what exactly is wrong with it?

I get the history with Ferrari cars and their aesthetic and all.

But it looks like what one would expect from the man who designed iPhone.

cpursley• 2 months ago

It's an overpriced Hyundai. Just because it has a Ferrari badge does not make it a Ferrari.

Here's what an electric EV supercar could look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlRIdLz6Juk

monooso• 2 months ago

You just identified what (some) people dislike about it. It's the disconnect between your final two sentences.

plun9• 2 months ago

It would have worked fine with a much lower price and if it were badged as an Apple car.

topspin• 2 months ago

what exactly is wrong

Some chucklehead car review guy on YouTube is going to get their hands on one of these, put a Door Dash car topper on the roof and drive around town to see if anyone notices the $640k delivery vehicle. Few people will, and that's what's wrong: the entire point of Ferrari, for better or worse, going on 85+ years, is to get looks.

If all the people that have ever purchased a Ferrari for its interior design vanished today, there are so few it wouldn't make a headline. The Testarossa interior was so tragically bad it probably shouldn't have been permitted by the DOT et al. Yet there it was, plastered on posters and magazine covers; a thing of dreams around the world.

So only yet another case of complete disconnect between a brand and its loyalists. Not the first, and given the myopia plaguing such folk today, not the last.

soco2• 2 months ago

from the man who designed iPhone

How about this: techbros got their hands everywhere nowadays, so even an iconic car brand is forced to use their brainfarts? Forced by market pressure, forced by export conditions, you name it, but I cannot fathom why otherwise getting a tech guy design a car. I actually like the design, but I must agree it doesn't look Ferrari at all. Did they fire Manzoni or what?

mellosouls• 2 months ago

Its ugly and not fast for its class, even compared to much cheaper cars.

That's a paradigm shift for Ferrari which has always been associated with exclusive performance and beauty - and the removal of that USP is why it is seeing such pushback.

enahs-sf• 2 months ago

0-60 in 2.5s — faster than a GT3RS, but slower than a 911 turbo S. I guess for north of half a million, you should be able to keep up with the german top dog.

tobyhinloopen• 2 months ago

It’s 0.4 seconds faster than a 50K Model 3 performance.

At that point, does it even matter

cucumber37328422• 2 months ago

It's acceleration by itself isn't noteworthy for it's class but it's a Ferrari and they don't really half ass these things. I'm sure it handles amazingly.

Same reason why people buy Porche SUVs instead of 700hp Grand Cherokees (it's a fucking shame they never tossed that engine in the Journey though) or Corvettes instead of Chargers.

bdcravens• 2 months ago

I know there's reasons they don't, but just take a form factor that is already loved, and stick an EV drive train in it. There's nothing about electricity that requires everything to look like something from Star Wars.

binarymax2• 2 months ago

They specifically avoided this due to the center of gravity issue, as mentioned in a top gear article several days ago. The design philosophy makes sense to start from scratch - but IMO they hired the wrong designer.

rozab• 2 months ago

Porsche do this and have been very successful.

Speaking of Porsche, they did once design a Star Wars ship and ended up with something super generic that looked like a free sci-fi model on sketchfab. Same as this car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJevc8fQVEg

DeathArrow3• 2 months ago

Ferrari devalued their brand.

From manufacturing luxury vehicles they are now manufacturing gadgets.

If someone is interested in buying a tablet on wheels, he can shop Tesla or Xiaomi, they don't need a Ferrari.

jrmg• 2 months ago

Isn’t it kinda traditional for people to say new Ferrari models are ‘ugly’ and ‘not a Ferrari’?

hresvelgr• 2 months ago

The new Toyota Prius looks better than this. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but if Ferrari is being outdone on design by a common commuter vehicle it looks terrible.

cucumber37328422• 2 months ago

It's like "that's not a real Jeep real Jeeps have..." but for white collar office people.

ahmedfromtunis• 2 months ago

This is a different kind of ugly.

For previous models, it was the excessive "sportiness" that sometimes made them look like a car from a mecha anime.

Luce's is more of an underwhelmed look, especially with the outstanding interior design it was privileged to have that was (rightfully) overhype over the last few months.

A car with that kind of an interior deserved a much bolder design.

bob0014• 2 months ago

It's not ugly. It's generic. That's the problem. Ugly can be eye catching. Generic will never be. Ferrari sells eye catching.

TheAlchemist• 2 months ago

Hilariously, the quote that comes to my mind when reading about this monstrosity, is one from Steve Jobs "Everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you".

Ferrari sells dreams. That's not a car anybody will dream about.

ReDeiPirati• 2 months ago

I really like how you put it down! This is how I'd have imaged to be the Apple car, not a Ferrari. The "irony" of people defending this monstrosity are saying thing like "this is the type of comments of someone who cannot afford this", but they are completely missing the point. If it doesn't making people dream about it, then it's not worth of being a real Ferrari product.

DeathArrow3• 2 months ago

There's a reason why the top Swiss brands don't manufacture quartz watches.

From some point on, people buy stories, experiences, luxury. Gadgets don't provide the same experience.

ahoka• 2 months ago

They do.

ruicraveiro2• 2 months ago

Except for Breitling, Omega, Tag Heuer, ...

DeathArrow3• 2 months ago

Top brands like Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constantin.

lovlar• 2 months ago

I had a conversation with my industrial design teacher at university once about how slight ugly and uncommon design might have a positive effect on consumer demand over time.

I don’t know if there is a psychological term for that phenomena in design but I think it’s related with mere-exposure effect [1]. A design that stands out and is uncommon, will evolve a deeper relationship over time with the observer than a well-polished predictable design.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect

dist-epoch3• 2 months ago

Balenciaga

servo_sausage• 2 months ago

The problem is that the eFerrari looks like a slightly improved bog-standard $40k Chinese EV crossover suppository.

It's not all that ugly, it just doesn't really hit any Ferrari design language, or even do something interesting enough to justify the extreme cost.

WinstonSmith84• 2 months ago

This is an uncommon design for a Ferrari, but this a very common design for commoners. What is more common than a Nissan Leaf? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

dist-epoch3• 2 months ago

This is exactly the Innovator Dilemma at work.

Ferarri took the bold action to not be tied with it's past.

One of their director explicitly said they used an external design company to intentionally to avoid a minor refinement of its ICE cars.

They knew how this car will be perceived, if only because surely there must have been fierce internal resistance.

randomNumber7• 2 months ago

"Know your place" is what came to my mind when I looked at this.

I get that they think about going away from the combustion engine, but as a manufacturer of insanely expensive, loud and overpowerd sports car this doesn't make sense.

It's like if I as a software dev would be worried about the future market and suddenly advertise myself as a psychologist in search for clients.

everyone• 2 months ago

It's literally retro futuristic. Looks exactly like a concept car from the 80's

Sweepi• 2 months ago

Regarding "The exterior looks like an iPad since Jony Ive designed it":

Marc Newson is also on the team, and there striking similarities to (t)his 27 year old concept car[1]: https://marc-newson.com/ford-021c-concept-car/

Regarding the UI: This is miles ahead of any other digital cockpit made by Ferrari. Also pretty good overall.

[1] via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48271629#48278841

danbruc3• 2 months ago

Ignore that car, but what is this?

This is a brand that permanently banned Paris Hilton for painting her Ferrari pink, Kim Kardashian for modifying her 458, and Justin Bieber for wrapping his in neon blue.

Where does that fall on the line between your product, your rules and I bought the thing, I own it, I paint it blue? My gut reaction was that this should totally not be legal, neither telling people how to paint their car, nor telling them what [not] to do with it, or to which places they can take it, seriously? And also banning people from buying one to enforce this.

xethos2• 2 months ago

Ferrari's done this for... I don't know how long. Hilton bought one, she owned it, and she painted it pink. That's all legal. Then Ferrari fired her as a customer - also legal.

You missed out on the more egregious (IMO) points about having to buy certain "entry" Ferraris to be allowed to buy the rarer ones too.

danbruc3• 2 months ago

What if they reject a customer not because of their wrong Ferrari color but their wrong skin color? I am not saying that they are the same thing, but there are probably acceptable and unacceptable reasons for rejecting a customer. And to me painting a Ferrari pink seems to be pretty far on the unacceptable side.

TheChaplain2• 2 months ago

You are free to do whatever, but companies are also free to choose who they conduct business with.

In the case of Ferrari, their products are essentially also rolling advertisements, so modifying them goes against what they are trying to sell.

danbruc3• 2 months ago

That line is not that clear. Putting up a sign in your shop selling only to white people or not selling to Jews will get you in trouble in quite a few jurisdictions. On the other end of the spectrum you have things like a bouncer rejecting people at the door because they do not fit in. Also the difference between not allowing to paint your Ferrari blue and not allowing or making it hard to have your John Deere tractor serviced by yourself or a third party is not that obvious.

thefz• 2 months ago

I am Italian.

I recognize Ferrari is one of our most iconic and exported brands.

Also I could not give any less fucks about the new Ferrari, the fact that it's ugly, the fact that it's probably going to tank or be a hit. They and their products are so detached from the lives of 99.9999999% of the population.

Also, what do you expect from a guy that used to design computer mice.

xtiansimon• 2 months ago

I don’t see the “face” in the design. Is this a break from that tradition?

bborud2• 2 months ago

I didn't know Jony Ive was involved. That may explain why it looks so disappointing.

Jony Ive is a brilliant example of the role selection plays in evolutionary processes. It is the sorting method that punishes bad ideas with death and allows good ideas to survive. After Jobs passed away the selection mechanism that only let Ive's good ideas pop through disappeared. It is popular to accuse Jobs of credit hoarding, but in that relationship he was the talent. Ive just someone who could generate ideas for him to choose from.

More than a mutation agent, less than a good designer.

What makes Ive bad for Ferrari is that he operates under the delusion that he is a great designer. This makes him arrogant. Arrogance paired with mediocrity isn't the best of combinations. And Ive sans Jobs is mediocre on a good day. But his myth is persistent.

Ferrari has a long history. Ive completely ignored it and designed a mediocre bar of soap.

If he did so out of an abundance of arrogance, or simply because he actually doesn't understand Ferrari is unclear. But it is an undeniable fact that the car neither looks like a Ferrari, nor is it a particularly elegant car. If you saw it without knowing what it was you could be forgiven for thinking this was a more modestly priced asian mass market car.

For admirers of a brand that aspires to make iconic cars this is, of course, a disappointment.

I did like the instrument cluster though. It dials back the somewhat childish and gaudy displays that sports car manufacturers have offered for the past couple of decades and replaces it with something that is more tastefully retro. A lot of older Italian cars had beautiful dashboards that give off strong race car vibes. (for instance the Bertone-designed Alfa Romeo GTV from the late 60s and early 70s - those had gorgeous instrument clusters)

rumori• 2 months ago

I think Ive deserves some respect. His portfolio makes it clear what type of car he will design, same with Newson. It’s Ferrari’s leadership that has to be held accountable for the decision, my guess is they wanted to break into a brand new demographic. Many say it should have been a sub-brand, for some reason they didn’t use that option. I don’t lien the car’s look, but also don’t hate it. Let’s see it on the road, get some review on the comfort etc. I honestly think it will be all fine, once the current wave of criticism blows over.

bborud2• 2 months ago

Well, he showed zero respect for the Ferrari design legacy. And let’s be very clear: this is a mediocre design regardless of brand.

Just because he had a successful collaboration two decades ago doesn’t mean we have to pretend everything he touches is gold.

pnexk• 2 months ago

I wish there was an article on this matter that wasn’t written like a capitalist industrial consumer taste manufacturing piece. Takes longer to get to the point too, but that’s just me.

6stringmerc• 2 months ago

Also relevant: the “swallow my pride and do this for the clicks” videos in the day of release that YouTubers began posting once the embargo was lifted. It was obvious no matter what they actually thought they were going to toe the line Ferrari wanted. Sad but hey, lie with pigs expect to get dirty…

gilbetron• 2 months ago

Charging it is an interesting choice:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13-ZdXDJTIfhe1vkAuzssvRx9bOQ...

juancn• 2 months ago

The interior design by Jony Ive is outstanding.

The perfect mix of tactile controls and mechanical needles with the screens feels revolutionary.

I expect others will follow replicating some of the ideas.

m4633• 2 months ago

the (moving) turn signal buttons suck. and why paddles? I thought EVs didn't need gears?

EDIT: "paddles on the steering wheel control regenerative braking and torque delivery."

em-bee• 2 months ago

the gist of the article is that people don't like change. and the lesson is: don't change your style, because your fans will hate you. even star trek felt that lesson. the backslash they are getting in recent years is disturbing.

but ferrari is arrogant too: "This is a brand that permanently banned Paris Hilton for painting her Ferrari pink, Kim Kardashian for modifying her 458, and Justin Bieber for wrapping his in neon blue."

WAT? how dare someone tell me what i do with my car.

but back to the argument: people don't like change. but change is inevitable. sure, some change is objectively bad, but we are talking about style here. get over it. if you don't like it, don't buy it.

the article argues that the problem is not the switch to electric, but how the car makes you feel. i'd argue that electric feeling different is unavoidable.

the article fails to show an example that does this better. the tesla example is unfair because tesla didn't have an existing brand image to follow. they could start from scratch.

if the luce looks like a car designed by apple, that's obviously no surprise. it will certainly appeal to apple fans.

so to me the lesson is this: don't change your brand, or it will hurt, if you want to innovate, create a new brand. but the consequence is also that if brands can not change they will eventually have to die and be replaced. that is not new, we have known this for some time now.

but i want to ask: is it possible to break out of that cycle? only if we teach people to be more open to change. and if we teach them to stop complaining about things that don't concern them. go complain about the cybertruck, that thing is objectively ugly. or about SUVs, they have no place in the city. but complaining that the luce does not fit the ferrari brand should be left to those that actually buy from ferrari.

ChrisArchitect• 2 months ago

Ferrari shares fall after launch of first EV as Jony Ive design proves divisive

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48282034

Ferrari Luce

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48271629

JumpinJack_Cash• 2 months ago

The tree huggers ruin everything they touch.

Bezos is right, things are either contracting or expanding...the saving and conserving energy to extend the runaway will only lead those who do to perverted and depressed outcomes.

Such as this monstruosity

The Problem with the Ferrari Luce EV Offers a Lesson for Every Leader

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