Colossus: The Forbin Project

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project

by doener • 2 months ago

254 98 2 months ago

en.wikipedia.org

jameslars• 2 months ago

Back in the late 90s the Michigan Tech CS labs had 2 preferred machines for students to remote into, Colossus and Guardian.

I always enjoyed the reference as well as this movie’s a kid!

zombot• 2 months ago

Now watch Person of Interest and then name your computer Samaritan.

JKCalhoun3• 2 months ago

Great film, I thought. The ending is quite dark—and then Colossus tells Forbin that he will come to love him…

Turns out it is prescient. The film was based on the first book of a trilogy. You can look up the plot of the following two novels if you want spoilers, but indeed, Forbin does have a reconsideration of Colossus.

I would love to see the whole trilogy filmed.

qsera3• 2 months ago

I would love to see the whole trilogy filmed.

Just hope that it is not Christopher Nolan.

WillPostForFood• 2 months ago

why?

ideonode• 2 months ago

The trilogy of books are interesting, but there is some very dubious sexual exploitation as an entirely unnecessary plot point.

zimpenfish2• 2 months ago

there is some very dubious sexual exploitation as an entirely unnecessary plot point.

Taking the thinnest of fair slivers, I think that's reasonably common in pre-(80s?90s?00s?) sci-fi/fantasy.

TMWNN2• 2 months ago

The film was based on the first book of a trilogy.

Although I think the film is even better than the book by D. F. Jones, only the latter mentions how, despite being created specifically for US national defense, Colossus is also fed unrelated data including Shakespeare's sonnets, because its creators do not know if it could be important.

transfire• 2 months ago

The GOAT.

aizk• 2 months ago

Back when I worked as a civil engineer I had a coworker named Joe. He was... I think 78. Poor guy didn't save up enough for retirement so he worked a bit part time. He knew the ins and outs of the field better than anyone, but had no idea how to use a computer (he marked up drawings and I put them into CAD). He mentioned this movie to me as AI (gpt) had just become a thing saying "it'll scare the hell out of you", and he recommended I watched it - I'm glad I did! Great guy, always told funny stories - "I was not a great dad but I was a damn wonderful grandpa!"

bronlund• 2 months ago

Yeah, agent guardrails has been an issue for a long time now :)

righthand2• 2 months ago

This movie is a terrible bore, but the concept and set is awesome.

righthand2• 2 months ago

Lol okay cult film lovers. Give me something besides boring technical dialogue and three-at-most set pieces. You’ll have terrible taste, that’s fine. Doesn’t make the movie “good”. A little more honesty and a little less evangelism for concepts would make HN healthy place instead of a dead af opinion drop for wanna be successful swes.

cubefox2• 2 months ago

This movie is not available as video-on-demand where I live. I could rent it on DVD though. And buy a DVD player.

aspenmayer2• 2 months ago

https://archive.org/details/colossus-the-forbin-project-1970...

cubefox2• 2 months ago

Thanks! Guess I don't have to buy a DVD player for now.

It seems that the people who don't care to make their old movie available as VOD also don't particularly care about copyright violations.

RajT882• 2 months ago

I've been joking at work that the 70's was filled with cautionary tales about AI that we should be listening to.

(Except for Demon Seed. That one jumped the shark - but I did love their rendition of what an AI data center looks like)

vogelke• 2 months ago

The "Demon Seed" book was creepier (and a lot more pervy) than the movie.

RajT882• 2 months ago

Dean Koontz? I've read a couple of his books, and I'm not surprised at the suggestion he had bad or awkward sex scenes, but weird rapey AI level awkward? Yikes.

aspenmayer2• 2 months ago

Demon Seed is schlocky, but it’s perhaps worth watching once. That said, I will readily admit that the film is bad for many reasons. Though horror films aren’t generally known for being inoffensive, the ending is disturbing in content and gratuitous in presentation. Perhaps the film works best as a warning and as a critique, though I’m really scrounging and scraping here. I blame Dean Koontz for the premise of the original novel, though I have no idea why anyone thought that the book needed to be adapted to film, but here I am talking about it.

I’m glad you brought up Demon Seed all the same, as I was reminded of it while reading TFA.

When the computer system from the film commands a character to “open that door, and clean these lenses” in a particular scene, the absurdity and mundanity of being commanded to clean a camera by an AI is subtly horrifying.

For a modern analogue, I’m reminded of DoorDash workers being dispatched to close doors left ajar by passengers of autonomous Waymos.

Animats2• 2 months ago

Definitely see this. The 1970s hardware is archaic, but the concept is still relevant.

So is the scale. For the 1980s and 1990s, the huge Colossus system seemed obsolete. The age of the personal desktop computer had arrived.

Now Colossus looks small compared to Amazon's AI training system from 2025.

TMWNN2• 2 months ago

Definitely see this. The 1970s hardware is archaic, but the concept is still relevant.

Indeed. There is nothing in the film that contradicts the notion of Colossus being a very, very large LLM.

foobiekr• 2 months ago

The film is very much better than the book. The sequel books, however, are not good. At all.

spiritplumber• 2 months ago

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/LeftBeyond I wrote this in 2015, it... fits. I'm fairly proud of myself for predicting model collapse.

altmanaltman• 2 months ago

very large large language model?

qingcharles• 2 months ago

I watched it for the first time a few months ago and it totally holds up. Very enjoyable film and more relevant now than ever. It is probably considered a little slow for modern low-attention-span audiences.

dsign• 2 months ago

Tangential: movies are not necessarily the best medium for cautionary tales about super-intelligence, with their penchant for hiding educated reasoning and their need for showy visual effects that always age poorly but get all the viewer's attention. Writing, on the other hand, can do the trick. The same way American schools have periodic rehearsals for "if a shooter comes," they should have a mandatory exercise to "write your own story that features super-intelligence." It might make the kids think[^1].

[^1]: Even if, or especially if, they let ChatGPT write it.

whilenot-dev• 2 months ago

Oh man, the Golden Age of science fiction movies, just two years after 2001: A Space Odyssey and five years before the start of the Blockbuster era[0] with Jaws (1975) and Star Wars (1977).

I feel like Science Fiction back then was purely understood as psychological concepts and ambiguous desires, mostly questioning the very essence of reality and our human minds. There were intelligences and ambitions in us that felt alien, but weren't extraterrestrial in kind. I always thought of it as if Science Fiction tried to turn any progress from the Age of Enlightenment inside out.

A great gem is also World on a Wire (1973)[1], which takes the concept of a machine controlled intelligence and questioned whether we're living in a simulation and are already influenced by a virtual world.

My favorite quote from Colossus: The Forbin Project, after Dr. Forbin is held hostage by Colossus:

  Colossus:   How many nights a week do you require sex?
  
  Dr. Forbin: Every night.
  
  Colossus:   Not want. Require...
  
  Dr. Forbin: [looks sheepish] Four times.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_(entertainment)#Bl...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_on_a_Wire

ndsipa_pomu5• 2 months ago

I love collecting old SciFi and hadn't heard of "World on a Wire", so am grabbing a copy now (Criterion have a version). I've long been a fan of Colossus as it raises the spectre of being under constant observation (now almost commonplace it seems).

I miss the days when SciFi didn't mean an action film in a future setting that just ends up being the good guy(s) being chased by the bad guy(s).

Edit: Apparently I had heard of World on a Wire, but forgot about it as I've already got a copy as a series rather than a film.

ahartmetz• 2 months ago

I find that one over-long and sometimes shoddily done. The payoff at the end is nice though. Fassbinder, the director, was obsessed with his work and made a lot of "legendary" films, but never really made them up to the highest standards.

BuildTheRobots• 2 months ago

If you enjoy this age of SciFi and don't mind radio drama rather than film, then X-1 is well worth checking out. It's a 1955- radio drama with a different short story each episode, quite a few stories from well recognised authors.

https://archive.org/details/OTRR_X_Minus_One_Singles

WalterBright2• 2 months ago

"The 13th Floor" is another version of that story.

JKCalhoun3• 2 months ago

Yeah, Star Wars more or less killed sci-fi as we had known it. I liked the weird Logan's Run, the depiction of class stratification in "Soylent Green", the banality of corporate control of "Rollerball".

The idea of a computer virus in the film "Westworld" was, to me at the time, something out of left field. (And speaking of Michael Crichton, "The Andromeda Strain" was "intelligent" sci-fi and we enjoyed it.)

"Mad Max", though it came after "Star Wars", drew inspiration from "A Boy and His Dog", "Deathrace 2000"…

A Golden Age for sure.

DennisP• 2 months ago

Plenty of interesting sci-fi later, though. Gattaca, Ex Machina, Her, Interstellar, Inception, The Matrix, Contact, Arrival, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind...

trebligdivad• 2 months ago

Oh yeh i grew up on a lot of those; add Silent Running in as well!

LargoLasskhyfv• 2 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphaville_(film) fits in there, too.

As does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Floor which is sort of a remake of World on a Wire(coming from Simulacron III).

Danox• 2 months ago

1950 through 1987 were very good years for Science Fiction Movies and TV shows particularly the 1960s.

One show that wasn’t exactly science fiction but was really good was the Prisoner with Patrick McGowan.

They are still very good anthology Science Fiction being written, but unfortunately Hollywood today isn’t doing that many – adaptations as usual Hollywood doesn’t like hire writers outside Hollywood.

exidy• 2 months ago

The line is actually "HOW MANY NIGHTS A WEEK DO YOU REQUIRE A WOMAN?" and was cut from the broadcast version.[0]

[0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064177/alternateversions/

mayli• 2 months ago

fyi: https://telehack.com/

cerebrum01• 2 months ago

meet the man forbin himself live in relay only on telehack live mas

ricksunny• 2 months ago

I cottoned onto the film a couple years ago after Ready Player One’s Ernest Cline recommended it on a Weaponized podcast. I like that the exterior facility shots were filmed at Lawrence Hall of Science in Berkeley. In the film context I really would construe it as projecting some sort of Cold-War era “secure government science facility” architectural archetype. When one learns about the career arc of E.O.Lawrence, the stylistic allusion to Cold War science feels all the more fitting. Viz. Lawrence Livermore lab has the reputation today of being the more secure, clandestine lab, while nearby Lawrence Berkeley Lab (LBL) has the reputation of being the stand-up academic science lab that welcomes international academic all-comers. But prior to Lawrence Livermore’s founding (like while Edward Teller was closer to the then Berkeley Rad Lab, now LBL). And so for several years, 1940s to at least the early 1950s, Berkeley Rad Lab would have been possessed of what would become those same Livermore-esque secure spooky Cold War science vibes.

smackeyacky2• 2 months ago

Rollerball has the central premise that society is outsourcing all decisions to a central computer and everybody just blindly follows, to the point where nobody checks whether it’s functioning properly.

First time I watched it I thought it was beyond far fetched. In the age of LLMs I’m not so sure anymore.

ndsipa_pomu5• 2 months ago

"Logan's Run" is similar, but with the idea pushed further. I think Rollerball is more political in specifically targetting corporations as being malignant forces.

smackeyacky2• 2 months ago

I’ve been trying to get some of my younger colleagues to give both movies a chance without success so far. I think they find it tough to get past the practical effects and old school actor acting.

iririririr2• 2 months ago

logan's run is too bad of a movie to be anything else, sadly.

euroderf2• 2 months ago

The short scene where they are in the "computer room" and the operator mentions that they lost the entire history of 14th century painting, or something like that. So relevant to contemporary memory holes and wholesale data losses.

chiph• 2 months ago

I'm surprised that the font used for the "Rollerball" title wasn't mentioned at typesetinthefuture.com

timmg• 2 months ago

Also see: Failsafe. An earlier film.

Both seem to be influences of War Games.

ndsipa_pomu5• 2 months ago

They remade Fail Safe in 2000 as a TV movie, but the 1964 original is the better film.

whycome• 2 months ago

Add: Watch Failsafe and Dr. Strangelove back to back.

DaiPlusPlus2• 2 months ago

(No spoilers)

I had 2 main fridge-logic issues which made it very difficult for me to suspend disbelief and limited my enjoyment of the film:

First: Colossus' is only able to implement its plan because the US, and US-aligned nuclear powers, agree to subordinate their entire nuclear arsenals to Colossus' full-authority defence control, with no means of overriding it; and with its computing hardware sealed in an impenetrable fortress (no maintenance access?).

Second: Colossus' plan - and its ultimate actions - assume everyone else on earth is a nuclear-disarmed-rational-actor, all solely interested in not-dying-at-Colossus's-hand - which is an unworkable assumption.

Unfortunately, the story is driven by these 2 points - without either then the film's story would just be yet-another-cliché-movie where the plucky humans beat the advanced AI overlord, the end.

---------

I still like _Colossus_ because it's "different" to all the other 20th century films with an AI character (c.f. tripe like Will Smith's _I, Robot_ or the Matrix sequels).

killerstorm• 2 months ago

Point #1 might seem unrealistic, but it's exactly how IT security of most companies operate now: "We are concerned about malware so we give full control of our systems to CrowdStrike". That is, having a single point of failure is shocking common.

michaelcampbell• 2 months ago

I've worked with companies whose infosec dept. is little more than "see tool alert, ask user what's going on", and then keep searching for the right _tool_ than injecting any human agency in that loop.

If any role is ready for an LLM to take over (or even a shell script), it's that one.

heresie-dabord• 2 months ago

difficult for me to suspend disbelief

Were you able to suspend your disbelief when watching Idiocracy [1], either in the year of its release or in the subsequent decades? (^;

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

ido• 2 months ago

Idiocracy is a comedy and as such doesn't require as much suspension of disbelief.

rbanffy2• 2 months ago

Second: Colossus' plan - and its ultimate actions - assume everyone else on earth is a nuclear-disarmed-rational-actor

The plan would still work. Colossus couldn’t be destroyed with nuclear weapons and would retaliate against any attack. It could force compliance of conventional forces as well, and force automation on them, also force populations to rearm it.

In the end, the population would appreciate the eradication of poverty, hunger, disease, and the surplus from not maintaining military capabilities. Colossus could afford democratic institutions while acting as a guard rail against humanity’s worst impulses.

DaiPlusPlus2• 2 months ago

Colossus was not a panopticon, it was operating on limited intelligence and information about the world. Now, consider a hypothetical secret and clandestine science and engineering team (think: Black Mesa East) could exist completely hidden from Colossus and fabricate a workable fission bomb, then place and detonate it somewhere as a false-flag attack that Colossus would act against.

...or even just from recent middle-eastern history: an outrageous death-cult militant faction like ISIS.

lowbloodsugar• 2 months ago

You are rational. There are plenty of moments where doing the rational thing would end the story.

You are not the president of the United States. That is Donald Trump.

Do you see how the plot is consistent?

coderintherye• 2 months ago

Both of these are better addressed in the books. It was an intentional choice to have no override and no maintenance access. And book 2, Colossus and the Crab, actually spends a bunch of time with Colossus testing the rationality of various humans.

socalgal22• 2 months ago

I love the movie but you have a point and I can see how it could make it hard to buy into

Interestingly I typed this prompt into a LLM and it was interesting to see it's lists. I'm not going to list the answers I got here but I kept asking for more.

List 10 famous movies that have glaring plot holes or premises that make no sense. Example: In Star Wars, they have a planet destroying machine but don't just blow up the planet and instead wait to "clear the planet" before blowing up the moon (please, no arguments about reasons)

b112• 2 months ago

Colossus' is only able to implement its plan because the US, and US-aligned nuclear powers, agree to subordinate their entire nuclear arsenals to Colossus' full-authority defence control

Not true.

It was both the US and the Soviets(creating Guardian) that did so, each competing with each other for the hope of reduced threat (the logic holds for cold-war logic, removing emotional, mercurial humans from the loop).

There is no requirement for anyone else to sign on at that point. The US and the Soviets held an incredible number of nuclear weapons at the time, about 40,000. Both Guardian and Colossus were in nuclear-safe bunkers, other countries having nuclear weapons would be meaningless. Should any country try to attack, what would they do? Destroy random cities in the USSR and the US? To what end? Destroy launching sites? The UK had a few hundred weapons, many of them plane carried. France had a few, China a handful in the 60s (when the movie was filmed), none of that would be enough to destroy all nuclear launch sites.

Not to mention, try it, and your entire nation would become nuclear ash.

Both complexes were self-repairing, had self-contained power supplies, and so on.

I think this is a fair threat model. And both Colossus and Guardian seemed to always be one step ahead of "the humans". They were tied into communications world wide, monitored everything telecommunications and radio wise, knew all secret codes used for communication, and even the direct lines between the US and the Soviets were eventually tapped (on the machine's orders).

Should some nation make preparations for war against Colossus, it would surely be detected. And blamo, no more nation, with a stark warning to others.

Of course, there are always plot holes and unrealistic situations. However I find it holds together, as much as any movie does.

At the very least, it engenders conversation.

briansm• 2 months ago

I've always wondered if it was perhaps the inspiration for the novel Neuromancer (2 AI's in different continents plotting to combine with each other to form a global super-intelligence)

madduci• 2 months ago

Great film. I would like to see a remake in modern terms

squeedles• 2 months ago

I came to this film late. Somehow, despite being quite active at the time of its release, I never knew of it until a colleague turned me onto it in the 90s.

Watching it with the benefit of 20 years of history, the influence on subsequent films, like Skynet, was obvious.

I loved the film, and think fondly of my departed colleague when it is mentioned, but I can't bear to watch it often. Like Cassandra, sci-fi films keep showing us a path that we should avoid and as a society we keep saying "Oooh! Candy!" and barreling down that path.

I never thought I'd witness a Butlerian revolution but I'm expecting that next.

rootbear• 2 months ago

A favorite film of mine. I was very happy when a decent quality bluray became available a few years back. I know someone who uses "Warn. There is another system." as an alternative to "Hello, world".

I've wondered if D.F.Jones knew of the British Colossus code breaking system and named his computer that to tweak the security people. They couldn't really object, since Colossus was still a secret. Jones was in the British military and it's not impossible that he knew of the project.

SilentM68• 2 months ago

Reminds me of Alex from "The Bionic Woman" Doomsday Is Tomorrow: Part 2 (TV Episode 1977)

Actually, found it online :)

tacon• 2 months ago

And when that movie played on the Caltech campus in the early 70s, everyone waited for the point when the US and Russian computer started exchanging a private language and one engineer exclaims "That's like five years at Caltech in thirty seconds!" The entire theatre exploded and my ears hurt from the screams.

euroderf2• 2 months ago

Great film, but I think it suffered at the box office because of the klunky title.

smarks2• 2 months ago

I rewatched this recently; I think it held up well. It’s probably re-entered the zeitgeist given the recent developments in “AI” and “agents”. So far accidents seem to have destroyed only data, but it’s only a matter of time before some fool hooks up an “AI agent” to a missile.

Much of the film was shot at the Lawrence Hall of Science in the hills above Berkeley, California. This building was probably chosen because of its unique brutalist hexagonal architecture. I spent a bunch of time there as a kid.

Eric Braeden (Forbin) is still alive, but his house in Pacific Palisades burned down in the 2025 fires. :-(

smarks2• 2 months ago

I took another look at L.H.S. and the buildings have rather more octagons than hexagons. There’s even a decagon-shaped building. Still, the symmetric geometry of the architecture is quite striking.

benjamaan2• 2 months ago

I thought US was going to be about how uncanny this is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_(supercomputer)

benjamaan2• 2 months ago

Anyone made this connection? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_(supercomputer)

rembal• 2 months ago

It's a well known movie, I'm pretty sure that Elon was either inspired by the movie or by the British code breaking computer from WWII. Frankly, I forgot about the movie (saw it in late 2000s), and assumed the inspiration came from the UK :)

iririririr2• 2 months ago

off topic, but i should mention; this post caused the opposite of a slash-dot-effect.

The torrent now have over 50 seeders from the usual 5.

Thanks, i guess.

8bitsrule• 2 months ago

Readers (who haven't hearof it) might also be interested in a short story (published 1909) by E. M. Forster called "The Machine Stops".

It "predicted technologies and cultural impacts similar to instant messaging, social media, and the Internet." (WPedia)

Apart from a 10-minute UK TV adaptation in 2009, ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1451714/ ) text and audiobook versions are widespread.

WalterBright2• 2 months ago

"5 years of Caltech in 5 minutes" elicited a huge laugh from movie night at Caltech in the 70s.

Colossus: The Forbin Project

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