The Reason Windows Hate Is Exploding: It's the End of Personal Computing [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7a89ZYcTo8

by oldnetguy • 4 months ago

88 128 4 months ago

askonomm• 4 months ago

Pretty sure it's just that Windows is horribly broken, privacy-invading, ad-ridden malware disguised as an operating system. I swear it seems like nobody at Microsoft not even once have asked the actual users for what they would like to see in the OS.

jmclnx2• 4 months ago

And to add to this, proprietary OSs are about to get worse and can blame the politicians for it.

With these new age laws, these systems can legally ask for personal information, and I am sure as time goes, information required will expand.

As for Linux, seems systemd is all in on this, as for the BSDs, I doubt they will enforce these new laws.

surgical_fire5• 4 months ago

You can lie when it requests for personal information.

I always identify myself as "Conan, The Barbarian" when creating account.

pydry• 4 months ago

Actual users are less important to Microsoft than execs who actually purchase the licenses.

forinti3• 4 months ago

Plus it's hard to buy a computer without paying the MS tax, unless you build one yourself.

That's an issue I would like to see legislated! In fact, in my country there is a law that prohibits bundled purchases: it's just that the authorities are not tech savvy enough to see it when it pertains to computers and Windows.

chuckadams3• 4 months ago

Used to be that people who bought the OS were the customer. Now just like everything else these days, they're the product. And the OS still isn't even free.

mancerayder2• 4 months ago

The video takes this one step further, and it has nothing to do with being 'out of touch' or something. The speaker is arguing there is a macro trend of pushing us towards agentic interactions instead of the UI components we're used to. Then it can track, tune and control everything we do, thanks to all the telemetry back and forth.

I wish people would engage with the content a bit. It's a huge claim (and scary).

swed4207• 4 months ago

The speaker is arguing there is a macro trend of pushing us towards agentic interactions instead of the UI components we're used to.

This trend is not even limited to Windows.

We saw it begin years ago with Google etc gradually reducing the quality of search results. Then ChatGPT etc arrive shortly thereafter, and people are led to conclude "it works so much better than traditional search." Hard to believe these two events are unrelated.

jinushaun• 4 months ago

No, Windows was broken before AI

josephg2• 4 months ago

Nah. I think the problem is that windows and macOS did everything users wanted them to do about 10-15 years ago. Everything since then has been lipstick on a pig.

If windows were a building, they need to stop tacking on more rooms like it’s a gaudy McMansion. If they really wanna keep working on it, work to make what’s already there more beautiful. Optimise. Reduce the install size. Clean up some of the decades of tech debt. Unify the different generations of UI toolkits. Write documentation. Port security critical parts to rust, where appropriate. Refine, don’t reinvent.

Throaway1975123• 4 months ago

and it made the pig actually uglier!

throwaway27448• 4 months ago

did everything users wanted them to do about 10-15 years ago.

Certainly not; not by a long shot. Besides, most users don't even understand the potential of software. But why bother improving it if you still make money shipping crap?

qwertygerty• 4 months ago

I agree, I've been amazed watching people release after release upgrading to newer versions of Windows and office, when what they used them for functionally didnt change. I could never make sense of how people didnt see it for what it is, and accepted the continuous costs. But hey, I guess that's capitalism, and people are captured by it. If it has a new shine, and everyone else is doing it, let's all jump over the cliff's edge.

rbanffy17• 4 months ago

Microsoft has a handful big clients - Dell, Lenovo, HP being the top three. They are the ones that make Windows be the default operating system on everyone's computers and they need to be happy, not the person who buys the computer. When the computer becomes unusable, they'll just get another from the same brands and everyone, except the user, are happy.

Corporations don't run Windows. They run Outlook, Excel, and Teams. Windows and generic PCs (or thin clients and VDIs) is just the cheapest way to achieve that goal.

neonstatic3• 4 months ago

They are the ones that make Windows be the default operating system on everyone's computers

I've got to disagree. Macs are a fantastic option as long as the software needed to do actual work is available. That's the real bottleneck and it's not something Dell, Lenovo, or HP have any power over.

orev• 4 months ago

Corpos definitely run Windows. There are many highly technical people and advanced software that need Windows. Not every company employee is just a pencil pusher or bean counter.

This myopia in tech is so baffling to me. Windows has been around over 40 years and tech people still act like it will go away “any day now” just because they don’t like it.

WarmWash• 4 months ago

Users want a one time payment of $150, for a 50 million LoC software product, and then get 10 years of support.

Everyone here slinging mud, while getting paid out of the SaaS pot. Would windows be a better product if it was user focused but cost $40/mo? From Microsoft's POV it would probably kill numbers.

rawgabbit2• 4 months ago

Two wrongs don’t make a right. What matters is being upfront and transparent. Microsoft could just have said the initial license is just that. If you want updates be prepared to pay.

zigzag312• 4 months ago

There are more than 10x more users than lines of code

rawgabbit2• 4 months ago

Microsoft is declaring all users are now corporate drones. All your activity will be tied to your Microsoft account. All your files, images, and regular screenshots of your PC will be sucked into OneDrive. If your mouse has not moved in five minutes a manager will be notified.

1vuio0pswjnm7• 4 months ago

"I swear it seems like nobody at Microsoft no even once have asked actual users for what they would like to see in the OS."

Why would they want to do that (serious question, think about it)

iamnothere3• 4 months ago

Big tech apologists: “while I used to enjoy playing Starcraft on Windows XP, it’s become clear that computing is no longer ‘personal’ and society needs some guardrails around it. I’m okay with sacrificing some liberties to protect the children.”

expedition323• 4 months ago

Personal responsibility is dead in Silicon Valley.

Honestly those people can buy an Apple device. Got my mother one- just email and a web browser.

(But I have to give MS credit: you can still disable BitLocker and their ridiculous smart screen. I am using my PC the same way I've always used it).

fouc• 4 months ago

TL;DW: the exploding hate is due to Windows transitioning into a fully cloud-first OS.

rbanffy17• 4 months ago

Nobody passionately hates Chromebooks.

moi2388• 4 months ago

I do

sli• 4 months ago

I'm absolutely sure there are people who do. Chromebooks just have a practically nonexistant market share compared to Windows, and a lot of those users being kids being issued school laptops probably doesn't translate to a lot of visible complaining about Chromebook-specific problems.

card_zero2• 4 months ago

What? I passionately hate Chromebooks, firstly because they were conceived as a power grab by Google to get people to do everything through online Google services instead of locally, and secondly in a more personal way when I actually had to use one, in a remote hostel with ropey internet.

nytesky3• 4 months ago

I really dislike the “expiration” date, and at one point they were very short (5 years) and poorly documented so it was a nasty surprise if you got an older model on sale.

nytesky3• 4 months ago

I don’t think I have ever spent over $100 on a Chromebook. I can’t imagine putting serious money in one; it’s a toy/disposable computer.

expedition323• 4 months ago

Which is exactly what the entire market is doing- except for Linux but come on that OS will never be relevant.

surgical_fire5• 4 months ago

Personal Computing was never in a better position.

Linux is a joy to use. Self hosting is easy as hell, with an abundance of tools and applications available. You can buy old refurbished machines that are still pretty amazing home servers for cheap.

Hell, even AI help with that. It's pretty good at making scripts and detailing step-by-step what you need to to get things running.

forinti3• 4 months ago

It is for us, the average user doesn't understand that.

oldnetguy• 4 months ago

Which version because I have been using it and it "functions" but it's not a joy.

rbanffy17• 4 months ago

I really love Fedora and GNOME. It looks nice, it's reliable, and stays out of the way. That's all I ask from an OS.

surgical_fire5• 4 months ago

I have been on Mint for 4 years and I adore it. But I am a filthy casual, I like my OS to be pleasantly boring. Arch is not for me.

It's a genuine pleasure to use.

goalieca• 4 months ago

Windows was fiercely hated for a long time for being extremely buggy, low quality, high price, weak security (a later concern), and Microsoft’s general anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices.

Things improved slightly for a while and maybe the generation of Mac/linux using tech workers never suffered through the worst of it, but Microsoft seems to be back on track with their old ways.

jordanb• 4 months ago

Microsoft cleaned up when they got hit with antitrust and then started feeling a bit of competition when operating under consent decree. That's all "behind" them now and the Google settlement put antitrust to bed.

chuckadams3• 4 months ago

With Windows 10, I thought MS had turned a corner. But then came Windows 11, and turning two corners means doing a 180.

nehal3m• 4 months ago

A 180 would imply a different direction than the original. I’d say they did a fakie 360 faceplant.

mancerayder2• 4 months ago

When is gaming on the latest hardware going to be mature enough to move off this garbage operating system?

Can I play Kingdom Come II on Mint now? If not, are we moving there?

tenuousemphasis• 4 months ago

I use a SteamOS distribution for all my gaming, Bazzite. KCD2 works perfectly. The only game I haven't tried to get running yet is Star Citizen.

gregoryl• 4 months ago

KCD2 works fine on Linux.

simulacrum• 4 months ago

Bro, I played KCD2 on Ubuntu the day it launched last year. The games themselves are basically a solved problem and have been for a while now. Multiplayer games with anti cheat are the sticking point now, with only a little bit of progress there.

- work is still ongoing to get performance of direct x 12 games on NVIDIA closer to that of windows.

subscribed• 4 months ago

Nvidia is indeed what holds me back. If not for that id be much happier (even though I'll end up with Wayland/KDE, with its quite revolting quirks)

daedrdev• 4 months ago

Thanks to valve its possible to play many games on linux

bavell• 4 months ago

Ooof, you're way behind - see sibling comments. Come join us in the promised land, brother!

lallysingh3• 4 months ago

I had to restore my son's desktop PC last night from a USB stick. It didn't even have drivers for graphics over 800x600 or the wifi card. I was flabbergasted. It's windows 11, 2026, a 6-month old PC. I genuinely don't know how someone could sell something this awful with a straight face.

Windows was only ever better than DOS, by the same vendor. It's been awful compared to any competitor it's ever had. Really. I don't see a non-gaslighting argument for Windows anywhere.

rbanffy17• 4 months ago

It's been awful compared to any competitor it's ever had.

TBH, Windows 3.1 was reasonably nice compared to macOS 7, and much faster than OS/2 or Solaris 2.1 on the same hardware.

lallysingh3• 4 months ago

Didn't MS also do OS/2 early on? Didn't they bill IBM by line of code?

I can't say much about Solaris, I used it - much later - on sparc and amd64.

I can say that I was writing 16 bit windows apps in '95, including drivers and VxDs, and Win 3.1 was a piece of garbage inside and out.

II2II3• 4 months ago

Faster than OS/2, sure. Now try to download a file in the background while doing work in the foreground. You would be lucky if your Windows 3.1 communications application could complete it without multiple retries.

The two operating systems were trying to solve different problems, and had different system requirements because of that. Windows 3.1 was fine for running multiple interactive applications since neither application would be doing real work in the background. When Windows 95 entered the picture, that changed and its system requirements weren't all that different from OS/2.

And that is just one example. Windows 3.1 didn't provide much in the way of memory protection. (From my recollections, it could detect a memory access violation. At that point it would blue screen.) One of OS/2's most noteworthy features was memory protection. All of a sudden you could use your computer for an entire day without losing work from crashing. Yeah, OS/2 would happily terminate an application (rather than the OS) when there was a memory access violation. On the other hand, it made it much easier for developers to detect and address such bugs.

On that last point: I have fond memories of bringing OS/2 boot disks to my high school programming classes after the upgrade to Windows 95 (and, when they started refusing to let me boot OS/2, they let me use the NT server). There was a world of difference between programming under OS/2 or NT verses Windows 95. No one bothered to try programming under Windows 3.1!

zecg• 4 months ago

...for people who insist on using only Windows on their personal computer.

ballstein• 4 months ago

The company never made good software

rbanffy17• 4 months ago

Their hardware, however, was always top-notch. It's really a shame they divested from it almost completely. I'm getting a Logitech ergo keyboard because Microsoft no longer makes them.

Gualdrapo• 4 months ago

Even Linus Torvalds himself acknowledges they have done some outstanding pieces of software (and I wholeheartedly agree with every word he says on this clip - it's absolutely on point about this thread's topic).

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BS-_ur-tYPw

nickburns• 4 months ago

Serious (related) question: is the the state of window 'snapping' equivalent to or better than Windows 11 in any *NIX, non-tiling WM desktop environments?

MarkusWandel• 4 months ago

The way I see it, there is very little creativity in big business. Fund an interesting new concept, or fund a formulaic sequel? Same thing every time.

So the makers of tired old PC operating systems look enviously upon the success of smartphones and think: We must do as they do. And thus S3 suspend gets replaced by "modern suspend" - just like a smartphone, not really suspended, just in a low power, always online, always ready to act mode. And local storage gets replaced by cloud, and local accounts get replaced by cloud accounts, and the cloud reaches in and modifies features and apps. Does this really make sense? Does it matter? Smartphones blazed the way and are successful. Must copy the formula, of your device just being an extension to the cloud, nothing more.

I sit here in front of my old school Linux machine, with terabytes of local storage and as little cloud dependency as possible. Heck it's part of the cloud itself, hosting an ancient cobwebsite right here from the basement. But I feel increasingly like an anachronism. Want to pass a photo dump to computer-neurotypicals? Not even a USB stick will do. Not even a USB-C stick that will plug right into their smartphone and allow the pix to be copied off easily from its UI. The whole concept of non-cloud stuff has become alien to most people.

Don't even get me started about getting photos from them! Anyway if that's how the world works now, why would anyone bother making a traditional operating system any more?

rileymat2• 4 months ago

The last line was really good. I may have differing opinions on some specifics but I loved this line: "The personal computer movement was about empowerment not dependency"

mcwoods• 4 months ago

This all pre-dates AI. It's response to market forces and revenue growth.

With the rise of Linux and ChromeOS the operating system is becoming a free commodity. Applications with real revenue are becoming web bound, google here as shown the way. Google's productivity software is a major threat to Microsoft. Here there is monthly recurring revenue.

There is no significant profit left in producing the operating systems. It is a necessity, sure, but it's not offering a USP. It just is.

So, the corporate thinking goes, switch investment into monthly paying applications, like Office 365. Reduce the investment in the OS, while using the established user base as a way to push new customers toward the online services Microsoft provides. Sure, MS can extend it to ARM, but this is because they are chasing the Chrome OS users.

Of course, Windows, like MacOS can still host "native" applications like desktop versions of office, or adobe products. But the real revenue is in the online monthly subscriptions. Games will fall into this section too.

In the end to the user, Windows becomes just like Chrome OS, a launch pad into online services.

Valve seeks the direction of travel and creates it's own OS designed to launch games and drive users to its store... it's the same story, and play book.

For developers, and creatives, the only home left is Linux (and maybe *BSD). This is acknowledged, as both Windows and MacOS can now run Linux applications via WSL and Apple Containers. Why? = because this helps developers create applications that can be hosted in the cloud... something that has recurring revenue.

AI? - Well, it's a possible accelerator down this path, as the hardware needed to host the inference is huge.

So what's going to happen in the future? - Well, the cost of AI is a limiting factor. Add in the political moves between China, the US and the EU are going to limit the growth of US owned cloud. Digital sovereignty is key, and the US government can get access to anything held on US owned servers. China is moving forward with plans to remove US technology from its ecosystem.

The result, well, AI does offer great productivity gains with costs so high, and latency of online services, tasks specific small models will be pushed to the desktop. Laptop and hardware manufacturers will add accelerators for this. In the EU there will be new opportunities for competitors to Microsoft / Google to stand up solutions, open source will be key to this, so NextCloud, will be popular. But overall there will be a pull away from the very thin client toward a slightly thicker client. The EU will probably want to sponsor, or help create a version of an AI agent similar to DeepSeek in China, they've shown what's possible with a smaller budget.

This won't run on Windows, or MacOS, it's all going to end up running on Linux. A Linux disto from China, and one for the EU.

DazWilkin4• 4 months ago

I strongly prefer my Linux machine but use Windows mostly so that I can run Quicken. I feel doubly trapped: can't get off Quicken and thus can't get off Windows.

I'm only very slightly less reluctant to get an Apple machine (though the M* chips tempt me) and there will probably be incompatibilities between the versions of Quicken.

I think I should probably rip off the band-aid and migrate to:

+ spreadsheets (more control/future proof) + gnucash or similar (and risk that going unmaintained) + Wine + something I've not considered

diogenes_atx2• 4 months ago

Do you need to run Quicken locally on your PC? Can you just use the cloud version of Quicken?

DazWilkin4• 4 months ago

I was unaware that there is a cloud version and will investigate, thanks!

xtiansimon• 4 months ago

At my work we use quickbooks enterprise (which is a desktop app) for some clients and another (not Intuit) online/cloud app for other clients. I have extensive experience using both. The cloud apps are slow, buggy, lacking features, immature UI/UX, and not as open.

The principal limitation of qbe is lack of multi-location support. The main advantage of cloud is the ability to provide direct access (though the role/permission models I’ve experienced have other downsides).

It’s a mixed bag, but the advantages of qbe outweigh the aggravations of windows—for now.

pathartl2• 4 months ago

I still don't understand all of the hate. In my eyes Windows has never been more capable and stable.

- Windows Terminal is actually pretty dang good

- There's actually a package manager built in now with WinGet

- Hyper-V comes with pro and is incredibly powerful

- While WSL2 isn't great at times, it does fill in a lot of gaps and working with Docker is pretty seamless

- Ever since Windows Defender became standard, cleaning up relative's machines has basically turned into disabling some startup apps and removing spyware-like browser extensions

- With 11 the UI actually feels reasonably consistent for the first time in a long while. There's still some core applications that need a rewrite (Disk Management, Format, RegEdit, Device Manager, Event Viewer), but it feels like real progression when compared to 8/8.1 or 10

- Backwards compatibility is quite simply unmatched

There's some areas that have regressed or have been omitted for _some reason_:

- If you're going to push Microsoft 365 family subscriptions, I never want to have to download TeamViewer, AnyDesk, etc. Give me some capable remote assistance tool. It's obvious this is ignored so they don't piss off partners.

- NTP synchronization shouldn't be behind the location access permission. I understand why it is, but then make location access more granular.

- Disk performance could be much better

- NTFS is so antiquated. It's time for another filesystem. I want native overlay support, checksumming, not-ass permissions (though tbf nobody gets this right)

- Windows + D is just a key shift to the right from ctrl C so I hit it all the time. It would be less infuriating if hitting it again actually put all of the windows in their previous state / stacking order.

- I usually sign in with my Microsoft account when I setup my PC, but ffs let me create a local user. If you want to put signing into my Microsoft account in my face, do it at first login not at first setup.

snielson• 4 months ago

Yeah, I really like Windows 11. I'm not a developer; just an ordinary user. I guess the difference is that I fully embrace the MS ecosystem—i.e., OneDrive, M365 Family account (the storage alone is worth the cost), Power Toys, Edge (sync'd across computers), etc. It works great.

The only problem I’ve had was with a family member who refused to restart the computer. Eventually, something got corrupted. Fixing it was simple—I just reinstalled the current version of Windows. It was so much easier than in the past, when it meant reinstalling everything from scratch or reverting to a saved snapshot.

neogodless• 4 months ago

Most of those benefits were available in Windows 10, with less of the pain and shortcomings of Windows 11.

I like that list, and appreciate those items. I run Windows... begrudgingly 11.

But why can't I have the above without...

- full screen ads for Microsoft 365 / Copilot

- inserting Copilot everywhere

- changing the UI and removing user choice, such as where you pin your task bar, how you like your start menu to work / look

- forcing your documents and desktop into OneDrive without asking and making it hard to separate them back out

Windows didn't necessarily go backwards with some of their moves, but they confidently went anti-consumer and pro-adware in quite a few of them.

EDIT: Like this... https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2026/03/20/our-com...

(See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47459296 )

pathartl2• 4 months ago

While 10 got a bunch of features back ported, they've started out on 11 and I would argue many of them wouldn't have happened if they didn't learn from the mistakes of 8 and 10. Particularly when it comes to UI uniformity. As for the other complaints, I don't fully disagree, but so much of what you listed can be disabled / customized that it often doesn't affect me past OOBE.

I'm not saying Windows is infallible, but it's actually getting quite insufferable to hear nothing but the Windows hate train day in and day out as if it has no redeeming qualities and the only reason we aren't on Linux is because some game developers want nasty anti cheat/DRM measures. I think the proliferation of this is largely due in part to "Windows sucks" being an actual valid avenue of revenue for creators.

CHB0403085482• 4 months ago

But Microsoft says that it's ok: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2026/03/20/our-com...

tsoukase2• 4 months ago

For over three decades Microsoft offered a free planned obsolescence to PC manufacturers. Windows got heavy and slow after a couple of years and needed a hardware upgrade which generated billions of revenue and all were happy. This continues till today and is the reason that MS increases the Windows bloat and HW vendors keep installing them.

If they installed Linux, we would still have our 12 yo PC until now. The year of Linux desktop will never come due to this reason.

The Reason Windows Hate Is Exploding: It's the End of Personal Computing [video]

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