'A hostile state': Why some travellers are avoiding the US

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20250328-the-people-boycotting-travel-to-the-us

by isaacfrond • 1 year ago

124 95 1 year ago

bbc.com

1oooqooq2• 1 year ago

just taking off my shoes is enough to not even take connections there

blatantly2• 1 year ago

Don't a lot of countries airports ask for that?

slau• 1 year ago

Not anymore, really. Not unless you have significant platforms or they’re flagged for another reason (metal detector, etc).

anentropic2• 1 year ago

Not generally

1oooqooq2• 1 year ago

no. that security theater have always been exclusive of the usa.

keep in mind if you're flying into the usa you might be passing thru usa-owned security screening even overseas. Britain, Ireland, have separate security screening, all with USA personnel.

AngryData3• 1 year ago

If I didn't live here I wouldn't visit the US either even before all this recent crap. High crime rates, high poverty rates, poor education, expensive, and the 5th highest incarceration rate in the world on par with Turkmenistan and Brazil. 1.5% of the US population is either in prison or on probation and a short step away from prison.

rebanevapustus2• 1 year ago

As somebody who is Brazilian, I gotta tell you.

Comparing the US with Brazil, especially with respect to some violence-adjacent statistic, is absurd in a way I don't think anybody from anywhere aside from perhaps South Africa could grasp big is your privilege.

SideburnsOfDoom2• 1 year ago

Yeah, take it from me, NYC and Boston are far more relaxed and friendly than Cape Town for walking or driving around.

But I find the airport border security in CPT Airport much more pleasant. The worst that happens is that they sometimes go through your stuff thoroughly, hoping to ding you some money for "importing" e.g. that second bottle of booze.

In all of these cities, there is crime and violence. Less so in NYC and Boston. In all of them, there are safer places and times, and less safe areas. If you know what they are.

You can't say "USA crime and poverty rates are terrible, therefore Manhattan will be very dangerous" - it just doesn't work that way.

rbanffy2• 1 year ago

Both Brazil and the US are huge and extremely diverse countries. On both you can see extremes of luxury and poverty. On both you will see violence and police corruption. In the case of the US, it's more heartbreaking because it's a rich country, and you shouldn't see people living on the streets of a place like San Francisco.

There are too many things that "shouldn't" in the US that just are and that is what makes me avoid visiting as often as I once did. The current descent into a quasi-fascist state isn't enticing either.

Brazil, on the other hand, is a poor country with rich pockets (chances are we both grew up in one), and poverty is kind of expected and hard to avoid. At least there (I don't live in Brazil anymore) we see a government dedicated to reducing economic inequality. I hope they succeed.

In the meantime, I guess I'll learn some basic Mandarin and spend more time in China. It's an interesting country that's now opening up to the world and with a lot of new things to be discovered by those who grew up elsewhere.

AngryData3• 1 year ago

The US has a 40% higher incarceration rate than Brazil.

marcuschong• 1 year ago

The comparison was only regarding incarceration rate, it seems to me.

CoastalCoder2• 1 year ago

I wouldn't think most of those factors matter when deciding to visit.

E.g., if I had friends in the US, or I wanted to see Yosemite National Park, why would the education system matter?

atoav• 1 year ago

Because the people you will enevitably run into will have gone through it and paired with stress, poverty and guns this could ruin your day?

drivingmenuts• 1 year ago

I wouldn't want to roll the dice on being seized at the border by ICE for arbitrary and capricious reasons, detained and/or disappeared, to maybe get sent back to my country of origin.

Because that is a thing that can happen now. If I didn't already live here, I wouldn't come here for any reason.

titaphraz• 1 year ago

US is now shipping people to El Salvador "by mistake" without a way of getting them back: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

This is from the playbook, it's a trial run for "Night and Fog": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacht_und_Nebel

trhway2• 1 year ago

it's a trial run for "Night and Fog"

i think it isn't a trial run, it is just a natural progression of things when the power becomes more and more unchecked.

There is already 3rd term talk - Vance runs, Trump as VP on the ticket, Vance resigns after winning and voila. That way he can also do 4th and if medical science progresses well - 5th, etc.

CoastalCoder2• 1 year ago

Under Trump doctrine, IIRC, Vance could simply kill Trump as an official Presidential act, and the legal presumption would be that it's A-OK.

Actually, that's an interesting question: does the VP share that same presumption of immunity? If so, then Vance could just do the deed right now and get off Scott free.

defrost• 1 year ago

Trump cannot run as VP as he's no longer a valid backup POTUS having already served two terms. VP candidates have to be "valid" (birth citizenship, age, not have served two terms).

The back door third term via VP trick only cleanly works for candidates before they've been elected twice.

Any attempt by Trump to run as VP will almost immediately be locked up in chaos.

It's another dead cat on table smoke 'n mirrors distraction play.

To quote another:

  The reason Donald Trump is talking about this third term ridiculousness is very plain.

  Second-term American presidents are lame ducks.  That’s just how it is.  And if they are unpopular lame ducks, after awhile their allies may start to look past them toward the future.

  Trump is undoubtedly terrified of this—of becoming irrelevant before his term even ends, particularly once the race to succeed him heats up.

  The way for him to keep the specter of lame-duckishness at bay is to tease the idea that just maybe, who knows, he just sorta might run for a third term.

  That’s the play, and the media is being played.

~ https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/old-man-dons-cross-to-b...

Addendum:

  The Twenty-second Amendment (Amendment XXII) to the United States Constitution limits the number of times a person can be elected to the office of President of the United States to two terms, and sets additional eligibility conditions for presidents who succeed to the unexpired terms of their predecessors.

The interaction with the twelfth has not been tested in any Supreme Court:

  It has been argued that the 22nd Amendment and 12th Amendment bar any two-term president from later serving as vice president as well as from succeeding to the presidency from any point in the presidential line of succession.

  Others contend that the original intent of the 12th Amendment concerns qualification for service (age, residence, and citizenship), while the 22nd Amendment concerns qualifications for election, and thus a former two-term president is still eligible to serve as vice president.

  Neither amendment restricts the number of times someone can be elected to the vice presidency and then succeed to the presidency to serve out the balance of the term, although the person could be prohibited from running for election to an additional term.

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the...

gwd• 1 year ago

Vance runs, Trump as VP on the ticket, Vance resigns after winning and voila.

I dunno man; Vance is ambitious, but doesn't seem like such a sycophant. I'd say there'd be a non-negligible chance that instead of resigning, Vance has him "accidentally extradited" to an El Salvadorian prison.

walrus012• 1 year ago

I think that's unlikely, but also, Musk is much younger than Trump and planning the long game from his own point of view.

MAGA as a movement (and the people who prop it up) will need a successor. Musk knows trump will eventually go fully senile or have a stroke or just keel over dead from old age, and Vance is a good logical next person to step in and take the reigns.

Trump would be 82 in 4 years.

dathinab2• 1 year ago

way of getting

you mean with arbitrarily claiming they have "no way to get them back" to spread more fear and suppression in ways mirroring the evil methods of authoritarian governments through history

let's be real the only way in which they could have "no way to get them back" is if they didn't imprison them in El Salvador but instead murdered them (and I don't think the US is at that level today)

the only one who has no way to get them back is the court/legislative, i.e. the US isn't anymore a state of law

leptons3• 1 year ago

let's be real the only way in which they could have "no way to get them back" is if they didn't imprison them in El Salvador but instead murdered them

Last time trump was president, his administration directed the separation of thousands of families at the border, and many of the children were "lost" and never returned. They are now somewhere in the US presumably with some foster family, but they purposely did not keep records of the separations and now there is no way to get them returned to their families.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/16/us-lasting-harm-family-s...

Maybe they murdered the children, maybe they shipped them off somewhere else? Who knows? One thing is for sure though, trump 2.0 seems far, far worse and more vindictive and more authoritarian.

pcthrowaway3• 1 year ago

In Canadian burning man discussion groups, consensus is pretty much that no one is going this year due to the tariff war (well that and criticism of the nonprofit that organizes it) . Out of hundreds who chimed in on the discussion threads, only one said they'd still go this year.

Many people I know have also cancelled travel plans and bookings. There are definitely some undeniable changes in how we're spedning our vacation time.

theshrike79• 1 year ago

Time to start the Canadian version: Freezing Man!

nathancahill• 1 year ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Dead_Guy_Days

pcthrowaway3• 1 year ago

You joke, but the Alberta regional is called Freezer Burn - https://www.freezerburn.org/

facile32322• 1 year ago

The tariff war? Not concerns about being detained?

blitzar• 1 year ago

If another country declares war on you, even if the bullets are tarrifs, its unlikely you would want to go visit them.

xxs4• 1 year ago

Not wanting to spend money there likely comes 1st, being sent to an adventurous free trip South is an extra bonus.

lynx972• 1 year ago

Well, given Burning Man has grown so big that it is becoming a turn-off for some, and the chaos of people getting stuck for days last year (or was it the year before that), I wonder if the real reason for people deciding to not go this time is really tariff wars, or if that is more of a scapegoat.

CaptainZapp• 1 year ago

I'm not so sure:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/27/canada-us-flig...

"Airline travel between Canada and the US is “collapsing” amid Donald Trump’s tariff war, with flight bookings between the two countries down by over 70%, newly released data suggests."

kzrdude3• 1 year ago

I guess you include the claims of "Canada is not a legitimate country" and "We will annex you" in the tariff war bracket. Those are the most pointed and serious policies that seem to have hurt the Canada-US relations the most. I think we need to mention them separately, so that it's understood by everyone.

rbanffy2• 1 year ago

I wonder if Burning Man could be temporarily moved to Canada... Its ethos is much better aligned with Canadian attitudes anyway.

pcthrowaway3• 1 year ago

We already have burns here.

Even if you could organize one with space for 100,000 people, it wouldn't be the same. For one, due to fire bans an effigy burn would be unlikely. And it wouldn't be in the desert which is a big part of it.

I'm not at all against the idea of another 7-day burn with a different name as an alternative to burning man though. Host it in BC where drugs are decriminalized and it'll probably be a lot safer for people too (in terms of legal repercussions).

graemep• 1 year ago

This is not new:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35176741

it is affecting more people, and more "mainstream" people.

I cannot find it, but I recall a British MP either being denied entry or being held a few years ago.

leptons3• 1 year ago

A friend of mine from Europe was very determined to visit the US this year, travelling through several states, meeting up with me along the way. He would have spent a lot of money here, but now that is not going to happen. Now there is no way he will travel here due to the hostility demonstrated by the current administration. I agree with his decision, he should stay away or risk being incarcerated because of an overzealous immigration gestapo, as has already happened to at least one European tourist. The US has gone mad, with a mad king that seems to hate everyone and everything as well as his deplorable minions.

xxs4• 1 year ago

friend of mine from Europe

Always reminds me how Europe is viewed as a single entity (I guess minus Ireland and England, though)

walrus012• 1 year ago

I would venture a guess that many Europeans share a common, predictable and negative view of what's happening in the states these days, unless they're something like a hardcore Orban or Le Pen supporter.

kzrdude3• 1 year ago

Entities within entities. I don't think it matters and I don't think it means that the person who wrote it doesn't know or care about the finer details of 'Europe' (I'm from "Europe" myself..)

leptons3• 1 year ago

I could have named the country but I'd rather not provide those details. I'm not sure why you chose to respond to that specific part of my comment, it's rather pointless.

aucisson_masque2• 1 year ago

Honestly if I was American, I think I'd be pretty happy about that. Less strangers, less tourists, more Americans in America.

And if people still want so desperately to come in my country, they got to follow the rules, whatever how stupid and outrageous they are.

I know it's also contributing to slowing the economy, not only tourists but new talents, qualified migrants may think twice before getting in, external investment may be lower.

But does it really matter to the American farmer or blue collar ?

saagarjha2• 1 year ago

Of course it does. The American farmer or blue collar worker uses government services just like everyone else, and those are paid in part by talented immigrants and external investment.

xxs4• 1 year ago

The economy being worse is too far of a connection. Most tourists and talented workers won't be visiting blue color farmers areas in general

aucisson_masque2• 1 year ago

Sure it has an impact, but marginal one, in economy everything is interconnected.

And I believe those who voted for trump are against government services and more towards free market, so it's even more a non issue to them.

At the end, it's more of America to Americans and less to strangers.

blatantly2• 1 year ago

Tourism alone probably won't affect those people but everything around the trade wars and everything else probably will.

JKCalhoun• 1 year ago

they got to follow the rules, whatever how stupid and outrageous they are

That's kind of the crux of the issue: stupid and outrageous rules.

kzrdude3• 1 year ago

It matters a lot to the American farmers or blue collar workers who live close to the border with Canada or have family in Canada.

anentropic2• 1 year ago

People aren't staying away because they object to following the rules of the country

They are worried about extra-judicial incarcerations and deportations, in some cases apparently for political opinions i.e. thought crime

Have a think about what your country is rapidly becoming

bitsandboots2• 1 year ago

The US had incredible soft power. You could travel the world and still hear US news, and locals discussing their opinion on the US. US entertainment was inescapable. Now people in other countries are starting to find ways to do without US influence, and the admiration and interest is dwindling. The loss of soft power will hurt in indirect ways, but they will hurt.

roenxi• 1 year ago

prompting Germany, the UK, Denmark, Finland and Portugal to issue travel warnings and advisories for the country

I'm glad they posted links, that is a lot better sourced than many media groups. But the links suggest that the UK's updated advice [0] is "follow US law while in the US, the form you want is an ESTA". That is something of a non-statement. In fact there is a lot in this article that on close inspection doesn't say anything. Like the rather generic Soligo quote for example.

[0] Bizarrely the source trail is via The Hill; I would have thought the BBC could go straight to a UK government website.

palata2• 1 year ago

I am not an expert there, but my feeling is that if those countries made a change regarding the US (like it used to say "it's perfectly safe" and now it says "hmm, be careful with the paperwork"), then it counts as a warning.

ctippett• 1 year ago

My wife and I recently flew to New Zealand from London, we opted to avoid a transit via the US. Not just because of the political situation in the country, which isn't ideal, but because our bags wouldn't be checked all the way through. Having to offload our bags and re-check them in either JFK or LAX is a huge pain – travelling via China, Singapore or any of the middle eastern countries is so much more convenient in comparison.

shermozle• 1 year ago

Last time I did this through LAX (flying onwards to Toronto) it was pretty minimal. You pick up your bag, go through immigration, then on the way out of there drop your bag off with an airline agent and on it goes to your destination.

Before the latest incarnation of Trumpistan though.

sershe• 1 year ago

It's still a pain; and what do you do if your bag and/or the inbound flight are late? Do you leave it behind or wait and risk missing the connection? And of course ~no other countries do that and nothing bad happens.

Musk should have gone after TSA et al first, he could have dismantled the entire rest of the government on the goodwill from that :)

z02d• 1 year ago

My girlfriend wanted to visit the US once in her life, but we decided to cancel the plans due to the current uncertainty. A German tattoo artist was detained because she had her work equipment with her. What will happen when I bring my phone and laptop as an IT guy?

gerdesj• 1 year ago

Just got back from two weeks in FL to the UK. Both me and the wiff had mobiles and we took a laptop too.

Nothing weirder than normal noted in FL except a Cyber truck with "Thank you Elon" taped out on the back panel!

lazyeye• 1 year ago

You think they wont let people in who have a laptop and a phone?

palata2• 1 year ago

Given that there are precedents of people being detained (for weeks!) for no apparent reason, I assume that the parent is scared that it could happen to them.

A French citizen was denied entry because they found messages criticising Trump on his phone/computer. Not detained for weeks, but could well have been for all we know.

mingus884• 1 year ago

They can force you to unlock your devices and then take your device away to be imaged. They’ll look at your socials and more.

If you refuse then they won’t let you in, and you will be banned from ever returning

https://www.eff.org/issues/travel-screening

rspoerri• 1 year ago

IIrc the discussion about this (tattoo) topic made it apparent that, that artist was likely working in the USA before (without permit) and planned to do so again, and had posted so in the web.

But myself I wouldn't go to the USA right now as well. In the case that anything goes wrong, there is likely so much chaos in all the agencies right now, the danger of error is just very high and impact could be catastrophic.

mingus884• 1 year ago

You should always bring a burner device when traveling to a foreign country, US or otherwise

The border patrol can effectively do anything they want, for any reason. If they ask you to unlock your devices, do it. Let them take it away to be imaged. There will be nothing of value on a burner device.

1password has a travel mode which will remove vaults from your devices. Take this one step further and remove everything unnecessary for travel from your devices

tim3332• 1 year ago

I've travelled to 50+ countries and never considered bringing a burner device. This recent US thing of of checking your devices or social media posts and turning back people with wrongthink is kind of novel.

Yeul• 1 year ago

Visiting New York for me now would be like a Jew going on holiday in Germany in 1938.

Ultimately my money would be going to a Christian nationalist regime and I have no illusions about what kind of "freedom" the US have in store for the world.

antman• 1 year ago

I have guidance from my company to clear everything from my laptop and mobile when passing those borders. Funny thing is we don't do anything suspicious and its a large US company. They just don't want the liability of client data being copied by an trackable gov process...

emorning3• 1 year ago

If you come here then, as a foreigner with no rights that will be respected by the current government, you can be snatched right off the street and deported to a prison in a country that's foreign to you.

Stay the hell away, it's literally 1939 here.

dnel• 1 year ago

My wife is a huge Disney fan and I accepted my fate years ago that eventually we will take our kids to Disney world when they are the optimal ages to get the most out of it. That time comes next year and we had already pencilled our visit for the spring but now we are considering our options and may look at going elsewhere, it's a real shame as it's been a long standing dream for my wife to repeat her childhood experience but it's a different world now.

rainclouds• 1 year ago

I think Disney is nicer in other countries these days. Could still make a good trip elsewhere.

ofrzeta• 1 year ago

Why? Because maybe they don't like to be detained just for the fact they have texted someone on Whatsapp that they disapprove of the current US administration.

josefritzishere• 1 year ago

Because folks are getting arrested at the airport for having anti-trump thoughts. It's pure 1984.

billybuckwheat• 1 year ago

Right now, I don't even want to transit through the US let alone travel there.

'A hostile state': Why some travellers are avoiding the US

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