BankSimple invites first customers; rebrands itself as Simple

http://www.simple.com/blog/Simple/introducing-simple/

by Q6T46nT668w6i3m • 15 years ago

387 277 15 years ago

simple.com

cleverjake• 15 years ago

Ah, wonderful. I hope I can get in soon. I've been waiting forever. Congrats to them for finally getting public.

cynicalkane• 15 years ago

I thought BankSimple was a great brand, because it tells you what it is and fits well with the current zeitgeist.

What is "BankSimple?" A way to bank that's simple. Sounds interesting! Everyone hates how complicated banking is, right? Let's go to the website to find out more.

What is "Simple?" Who knows. A website that has something to do with banking--or so I'm told--with yet another web 2.0 one-word "brand", a really uninspiring one too. Hey, I wonder what's on Reddit.

gyardley• 15 years ago

Whatever Simple is, I suspect it doesn't have to comply with every single state's regulations on exactly what can call itself a bank.

schraeds• 15 years ago

Mint, Square, Ally. I think the naming convention fits other examples of successful startups in this space.

chc2• 15 years ago

Eh, Ally isn't just "Ally Inc," it's "Ally Financial," and it uses the term "Ally Bank" in advertising its banking services. And Mint doesn't do banking at all — they're purely an analytics service.

gojomo• 15 years ago

'Ally' is not a successful startup. Ally is the rebranded GMAC, whose founding dates back to 1919. GMAC was renamed (and officially transformed into a registered bank) as part of a series of changes which included receiving over $16 billion in federal bailout assistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ally_Financial

Though I suppose 'Ally' was a spectacular renaming, and their advertising is working, if it gives people the impression Ally is a can-do startup!

rapind5• 15 years ago

Color...

vaporstun2• 15 years ago

While I think this may be true at first, if they gain any critical mass, the "Bank" in BankSimple would become redundant and wasteful.

I think it is good and forward looking to rebrand it Simple before launch so that becomes synonymous with banking. Imagine if Google was instead called GoogleSearch? Google became synonymous for Search and therefore the Search portion of their name is superfluous.

I for one applaud this move and think the branding is nice, clean, and, of course, simple ;)

evan_• 15 years ago

Like how the "bank" in "Bank of America" is redundant and wasteful?

To clarify, I don't really care either way- I'm sure they had other reasons for dropping the "Bank" from their name, especially since they're not really a bank.

pyrhho• 15 years ago

No more redundant than Bank of America or Citibank...

al3x38• 15 years ago

Thanks for getting it :)

CJefferson• 15 years ago

For me at the moment, googling 'simple' produces nothing which looks like this company. It is going to be a hard term to reach the top of.

Of course they are top for 'banksimple' or 'simple bank'.

benatkin• 15 years ago

> What is "Simple?"

Shoes.

stefs• 15 years ago

but only shoes with velcro straps, binding bootlaces is complicated.

al3x38• 15 years ago

The "Bank" in "BankSimple" was problematic for us. We're technically not a bank. We also don't want to be associated with the way people have approached banking, particularly in the US.

Sorry you're not crazy about the new name, but we're happy with it. It gives us a lot of room to grow.

Umalu• 15 years ago

There are actually laws prohibiting non-banks from using the word "bank" in their name. A lot of bank holding companies (which are not, technically, banks) got around this by replacing the "k" in "bank" with a "c" -- such as "BancAmerica Corp". I'm sure we all breathed a sigh of regulatory relief seeing that "c" there.

lowglow• 15 years ago

Can I have your banksimple.com domain name when you're done with it?

kai-zer• 15 years ago

A non-bank entity cant have the word "Bank" in the name, but any other spelling is okay. BancSimple is legal.

The changed spelling is to indicate that it is not a bank and its accounts are not insured by the FDIC.

e.g. Banc of America Securities, U.S. Bancorp

thwest• 15 years ago

Oh but I wish you were a bank or credit union. How my deposits are used is something we should be able to negotiate about.

mey• 15 years ago

I have some idea of the regulatory nightmare that becoming a bank represents so I understand the approach, but is that on the long term radar?

It seems that a technologically driven bank could offer even more interesting services to individuals and businesses.

Edit: Or would love to chat in person over coffee (on twitter @scottmarkwell)

jaysonelliot3• 15 years ago

I'm a fan of the name Simple instead of BankSimple. I bank with ING and USAA at the moment, and I've never had any trouble with the fact that neither one has the name "Bank" in their brand.

I agree, calling it "BankSimple" feels limiting, and carries baggage from bad experiences I've had with banks in the past.

Now if only I could get an invitation to open an account!

eliben• 15 years ago

Even though I sympathize with the problems having "bank" in a name, "Simple" is just too general to be useful.

rapind5• 15 years ago

I preferred BankSimple too, but I guess having Bank in the name would present too many problems. Simple seems very generic, no offense guys.

al3x38• 15 years ago

None taken. "Simple" is a generic term, and it's up to us to build it into a strong brand over time.

firefoxman1• 15 years ago

This may be one of the few times I like the original name better than the one a company re-brands itself as.

I wish companies could so something like a pretend re-brand and make a fake post on their blog, submit it to HN and then see what the feedback is before just jumping in. HN provides some of the best and most brutal feedback I've seen in a community that simply can't be replicated by a focus group or board meeting.

kleiba2• 15 years ago

In some regions of Germany, the noun "Simpel" means idiot (it still means "simple" as an adjective). Also note that the spelling is slightly different, but the pronunciation is pretty much the same. Just in case these guys ever want to reach around the globe...

oemera• 15 years ago

Can I who told you that? I'm German and I have never heard that "Simpel" as the German noun is associated with idiot or idiotic thinks.

Simpel just means simple. Maybe it is not seen like the simpleness which American people try to express with the word but either it just means simple.

I love to have more simpleness in Germany. Please do consider to expand to Germany or Europe!

jamesbritt• 15 years ago

Same in English; calling someone "simple" is short for "simple-minded" or "a simpleton".

Don't hear it used much though, and it's unlikely to be the first thing that pops into someone's head.

citizencain• 15 years ago

You have a cheesy nickname, so it doesn't count. An organization that handles money doesn't need to be experimental on the name. I think it needs to be more on the safe side. It's money after all.

app7399• 15 years ago

That is akin to asking: "What is 'Apple'? A fruit company?"

steve89183• 15 years ago

Does someone know exactly what they are? If we deposit money with them, how do we know we will get our money back? What does it mean when they say: "we're not a bank, but we deposit your money in FDIC-insured funds"?

I'm all for introducing new types of banking entities, and I'm willing to even try this company out, but in the age of post-Madoff and personally having my identity stolen, how do I know who these guys are, and that they will protect my money and my information?

noodle3• 15 years ago

> What does it mean when they say: "we're not a bank, but we deposit your money in FDIC-insured funds"?

it means that "simple"/"banksimple" is not a bank itself. you deposit your funds through their interface into actual banks while simple provides an interface to track and visualize your money. thats my understanding, at least. they definitely can't bill themselves as a bank when they aren't one.

esrauch2• 15 years ago

Doesn't that mean that you don't actually get any of the legal protections (insurance and assurances) that comes with keeping your money in a bank or credit union?

wwdevries• 15 years ago

Coincidentally I noticed that both Simple and Square do not mention anything (anymore) about who they are. No about page, no team page, no nothing. Especially with companies that are all about your money, I'd at least like to know who's running the shop.

Since it's pretty much the standard for startups to tell about themselves on their web site, this must have been a deliberate choice. What advantage does it have – especially in the case of Square and Simple – not to show who you are?

k-mcgrady• 15 years ago

It's probably to do with image, particularly how that looks to ordinary consumers. If consumers look at a bank/payments company and see it is run by a small team of 20/30 something geeks, rather than wall street types they might be anxious about letting them take care of their money.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

We had a "team" page on our previous site (under the BankSimple name). We plan on revising and reviving that page, it just didn't make the cut for our updated site for the Simple rebranding.

I like knowing who's behind the products and services I use too.

niketdesai• 15 years ago

I noticed this as well, but I was able to see the team over on their Jobs page (and get a little bit of information about them too). I don't mean for this to be a solution to what you have brought up, but if you want to see something about them now it's a start.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

From a regulatory perspective, we're a lot like a prepaid card. It's a well-known model that banking authorities, legal experts, and the government is comfortable with. You probably already use financial products that work similarly to the way we do.

That said, we hold ourselves to the same security standards that "real" banks do. I'd like to think we're going above and beyond when it comes to security.

maaku5• 15 years ago

"a lot like a prepaid card" doesn't answer the question. In what ways is it like a prepaid card? In what ways is it not? As the OP asked, where does the money actually go? It's a concern that you couldn't really answer the question.

steve89183• 15 years ago

Thanks Al3x. When you say "we hold ourselves to the same security standards", what does this mean? Are you regulated? Who are your regulators?

smarmius• 15 years ago

Honestly, I don't understand this rebranding. Are they making things other than banking simple? I love the idea of making banking more simple and easier, and that's why I thought their previous name, BankSimple, was better. Can someone help me understand this?

spencerfry• 15 years ago

Maybe things like healthcare and benefits?

adestefan• 15 years ago

I have a feeling there are jurisdictions where they would be regulated if they used the name BankSimple and took peoples' money.

roc2• 15 years ago

I think this is just a PR (over-)reaction to the current negative image of "banks" and provides some space between Simple and the "banking" practices it skewers in its marketing. (It is somewhat problematic to say "banks are bad for you" and "we're not a bank" when your name screams "we're a bank")

I guess it's also somewhat logically defensible, since FDIC-insured credit unions are just as qualified to be Simple's back-end partners. Though it still feels like a dodge, given how foggy the relationship is between Simple and their partner institutions. It feels like they want people to not think about Simple accounts supporting places like BofA, while still being free to partner with BofA in the background.

That said, I wonder if they've considered a "community-focused" account option, where people can specify that they only want their funds to be deposited with credit unions, accepting whatever slightly worse terms come with less competition.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

It's extremely unlikely that we'd ever partner with an institution like BofA. We chose bank partners who are comfortable with our vision, and that includes not charging outrageous fees and engaging in other customer-hostile practices. The big banks have shown time and again that they're not in business to act in the best interest of their customers, and that makes them poor partners for us.

We don't currently have plans to allow customers to select the institution with which their funds reside, but it's something we'll take under consideration. Thanks for your thoughts.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

We're focused on banking right now, but one of the things we like about the Simple name is that it gives us room to grow.

Another thing the new name gets us is freedom from both legal issues around the term "bank" and negative associations with the retail banking industry.

Plus, people kept mixing up "BankSimple" and "SimpleBank". That was driving me nuts :)

smackfu2• 15 years ago

I wonder if there were issues with calling themselves BankX when they are not regulated as a bank. Edit to add, there are definite laws against this in some states, for instance CT (I'm not sure if this would apply in this case, but it's indicative of what is out there):

"No partnership, common law trust or association, or individual using a trade name, shall use, either as a part of its name or as a prefix or suffix thereto or as a designation of the business carried on by it, the word "bank", "banking", "banker", "bankers", "trust" or "savings", "

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap620.htm#Sec35-2.htm

al3x38• 15 years ago

That was a concern, but not the sole reason for our rebranding.

buro93• 15 years ago

I'm not sure I understand the proposition now.

Who is the relationship with?

As in... who has my money?

I read it as them hiding that from you for simplicity... you get this one interface and customer service which is wonderful, but to achieve this they are the proxy to your bank?

So... do they set up the bank accounts, or do you? Do you have the ability to go straight to your bank, or does Simple preclude that ability?

In this text:

> Simple is not a bank. Simple replaces your bank. We build the services and support you need to manage, understand, and automate your everyday spending and saving. Meanwhile, we integrate with chartered banks who manage your deposits in FDIC-insured products. We take care of you, our partner banks take care of your money, and jointly, we’ve designed a better financial experience.

I come out confused. Who has the money, can I go straight to them to get it?

That's the missing bit of clarity that would make me feel the love (trust).

smackfu2• 15 years ago

I think the idea is:

What if you took mint.com, and instead of interfacing with hundreds of banks, you interface with a single bank. You can integrate much more closely and provide a better experience, and the customer shouldn't really care what the underlying bank is.

finisterre• 15 years ago

I wonder if the Mint team ever thought of going that route; they were/are very well placed to lead users into this model. Once you get used to the idea of being able to see all your accounts and varies metrics in one place it's obvious to appreciate being able to push data the other way and instigate transfers and bill payments from that nice central hub. Maybe the complications of getting the banks on board was the barrier.

burnstek2• 15 years ago

The problem is that most customers do care what the underlying bank is, especially given the events over the past few years. The world may have been ready for this five years ago, but not anymore.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

We work with partner banks who hold on to deposits. For all intents and purposes, you never have to think about who that partner bank is, but if you ever need to contact them directly, you'll know where your funds are.

You might find our FAQ informative: https://www.simple.com/faq/.

buro93• 15 years ago

Still confused.

Is the account at the partner bank in my name, or that of Simple?

etherealG• 15 years ago

hey al3x. thanks for the explanation. i had a read over the faq and i think it's still not too clear who would have the deposit. am i right in assuming that on opening an account my initial deposit would go to a specific bank partner, and i would be informed of who that partner was in case i ever wanted to approach them directly to access my deposit without your service?

al3x38• 15 years ago

Answering etherealG's question here because I can't reply to him below:

Yes, you'll know what institution your funds are at. When you get your Simple card, it'll say "issued by {Bank Name}" on the back.

sector4• 15 years ago

I don't understand who I call when a problem arises. Do I call you, the anonymous partner bank, or is it simply impossible to call somebody if I have an issue?

anonymoushn2• 15 years ago

Can you tell us which banks in particular will be holding the deposits? I ask because I am interested in your product, but I do not want to do business with any bank that repeatedly forecloses on houses for which it holds no mortgage, hires mercenaries to commit the crime of breaking and entering, has a chief underwriter who has testified "Defective mortgages increased during 2007 to over 80 percent of production," or has admitted to over 100,000 instances of perjury. As such I'd like to be certain that you aren't doing business with Bank of America, Wells Fargo, or Citigroup before I open an account.

navyrain• 15 years ago

Love where you're going with this; however, the trust level is just not high enough for me to move my funds from a credit union (becu.org for me) to your partner bank. Now if you could partner with them, or a similar credit union, that would be amazing.

Nelson69• 15 years ago

So you're a metabank, and you provide mint like tools for analyzing expenses, paying bills, etc.. Then you provide better customer service or a better experience or something like that?

Do you plan to use customers leverage to get better terms with the actual banks? Like could you move all the accounts to another bank if it paid better interest or something like that? Do you take a cut of the action?

qeorge• 15 years ago

As I understand it:

Banking is a commodity product. Other than access to ATMs, customer service, and online banking there's not much difference between banks (other than rates & fees, of course).

Same goes for the customers, honestly. If the bank doesn't extend you credit anyway, its a "your money is green" situation.

Yet the marketplace is still inefficient, and they think they can make money by making it efficient.

To do so, Simple has defined a standard checking account, if you will. It has x% interest, y fees, etc. Since banks and customers are a commodity, Simple can then say "we have 10000 customers at this price. Any FDIC insured bank - do you want them?" and perform a reverse auction of sorts. Its very much like LendingTree or FeeFighters.

The obvious obstacle is the same with internet banking - what if I need to talk to someone or get money out of an ATM? You're not going to convince me a random bank in New Mexico is interchangeable with Wells Fargo when I need cash.

They are handling this objection by providing a front-end which standardizes the customer service, ATM access (they pay the fee so use whatever ATM), and online banking pieces, and hopefully that standard is high quality.

So you still have an account with XYZ bank in Nowhereville, USA, but you've got a nice front-end instead of a questionable online banking product/customer support. All XYZ bank does is hold your cash for you, and its insured anyway so they can't screw that piece up.

Sounds great to me.

maaku5• 15 years ago

There are strict rules that govern how banks operate. As bad as that relationship may have gotten recently, there are some basic legally enforced assurances that I can take for granted in how banks will respond to requests about my money. If Simple is a middleman to this transaction, I no longer have those legal protections.

That doesn't sound very great to me.

wmf• 15 years ago

This is a good example of why "we're not a bank" is more confusing than comforting. IMO Simple should just gloss over that part.

Edit: I would liken it to startups that are built on top of some cloud; I don't need to know that because ultimately I hold the startup responsible for their reliability/security, not their underlying provider.

ohyes3• 15 years ago

I'd go with 'scary.'

I put my money in a bank because there is an assurance that I'll be able to get it out later and that it is safe there.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Noted.

damoncali5• 15 years ago

I don't get it either. I want to know who my bank is. I also don't find checking accounts and credit cards to be all that complicated.

My bank (USAA), for example, is pretty good. The idea of putting a startup between them and me just seems odd.

It all just seems like a glorified IT system for banks.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

Most banks do use "glorified IT systems". Very few of them develop their technology in-house.

Think about it this way: you can have a bank that buys their technology from another company, or you can have a technology, design, and customer service company that partners with banks. Both are viable options, but I think our approach is going to better for retail banking customers in the long run.

dkokelley• 15 years ago

USAA is an outlier in terms of banking interfaces. I've had accounts with several banks, and so far none has beat USAA in terms of web interface, customer support, and consumer friendly features like free ATM withdrawals from wherever. In fact, when I transfer from my brick and mortar bank to USAA, they grant me use of the funds immediately. I know they haven't collected the funds yet, but they let me use them so there is no "limbo" where nobody really has my money.

Simple would do well to match USAA's service, but in reality they are competing with the BofA's, Chase's, and WF's of the world, and beating them on service shouldn't be too difficult. I think Simple is a step between your bank's actual web interface and a service like Mint.com. It's certainly a gap in the market. The question remains "is there a market in the gap?"

bisrig• 15 years ago

As a follow-on to this, it certainly appears (from quick searches of your site as well as reading through this thread) as though you are not disclosing which banks you are specifically partnering with... this is certainly your choice, of course, but given the events of the past few years, I think that there's a significant number of people that make an active choice not to use certain banks due to their past behaviors - if I were to sign up for something like this, I would be concerned that there would be a chance that I could be implicitly supporting a company that I'm actively not supporting today. Is there any notion of being able to "choose" the partner bank your account is held with, or at least being able to screen a list prior to opening an account?

al3x38• 15 years ago

We've disclosed all of our bank, technology, and processing partners.

I don't think we're likely to allow customers to choose which partner bank holds their funds, but we do make that information transparent.

kristaps• 15 years ago

Any info on how much the domain cost?

hemancuso2• 15 years ago

Burning money on outrageously priced domain names instead of executive bonuses. I love it!

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

It wasn't a cheap domain, but our investors felt it was worth the expense. It's memorable, flexible, and to-the-point. We're generally not a profligate company, but we felt strongly about this.

hemancuso2• 15 years ago

Seriously, I love it :) Good luck!

kr1shna3• 15 years ago

I for one, love the branding. I think this is a leap forward in banking. I don't get why so many people are confused about the concept or don't like the name. Seriously...who cares about a statement or where it comes from? Those are old paradigms that need to be destroyed. Good job, Simple! I'm just sad that I can't get in the UK.

lforrest• 15 years ago

I love it too. Good job, guys. Can't wait for my invite.

astrong• 15 years ago

how much was it ? I'm guessing $800,000

beforebeta• 15 years ago

Anyone notice the name "Joeseph Schumpeter" on the sample card? Its a reference to Schumpeter's Creative Destruction - further implying them to be in the process of destroying the old ways of doing things (in this case banking) with a radically different approach. Love it!

nickik• 15 years ago

Where? I cant find it. But I think its a fantastic idea. I really love the idea of "Creative Destruction". The people who always go "but that will cost jobs blabla" always pisses me off because they only see the bad and not the good. Until we hit "real" AI there will be alot more work to be done.

burnstek2• 15 years ago

This move strikes me as being a little too quaint for a financial service. I can't tell what I'd be signing up for. While their language is very friendly, it's also obtuse, and that doesn't foster trust.

al3x38• 15 years ago

What questions would you like us to answer, or where do you think we can be more specific? We're always trying to improve the way we explain what we do, so we're open to suggestions :)

damoncali5• 15 years ago

Can I withdraw my money directly from the partner bank, and is it in an account with my name on it?

warmfuzzykitten• 15 years ago

Do you really want to let Simple take care of your money?

ganeumann4• 15 years ago

Yes. Yes I do.

I put my money into a bank and take it out when I want to spend it. I look at my statement to see where I spent it. It's simple. There is absolutely nothing else I want a bank to do for me. I do want a clean and useful mobile-optimized interface, a friendly and helpful customer service staff, and to not be charged a penalty (sorry, 'fee') every time I make a mistake. That's the Simple proposition. Why would you want it to be complicated?

lhnn2• 15 years ago

I don't get what the confusion is. "Simple" (generic name, weak branding..) is a middle-man between banks and you.

Why?

-They have multiple backend banks, so I suppose that keeps you the customer from getting locked into one bank's crappy fee policy.

-They can focus on customer satisfaction and UI rather than be bogged down by becoming a "real" bank.

Any doubts about their trustworthiness because they're not a bank is nothing but FUD, since they explicitly stated multiple times that your money is in a bank.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Sorry that you think the name is "weak" and "generic", but I'm glad that you get what we're doing.

"Simple" is definitely a generic term, but brands are built over time. Personally, I love our new logo (by our own @3n), and I think it'll resonate when you start seeing it on actual debit cards and such :)

lhnn2• 15 years ago

It's easy to talk shit on the Internet...

Obviously, I support your business idea, and I look forward to it shaking banks up a bit. If the product is strong enough, a generic brand won't kill the business. I still believe

BankSimple was a better name (in my opinion), as it actually positioned you as a new player in a game to change the status quo. I can understand if there were potential legal issues with a non-bank calling itself a bank. If this is the reason a change was made, then I'm wasting my keystrokes.

Send me a beta invite!

jguimont• 15 years ago

I wish I had this name for my business. Perfect.

3pt14159• 15 years ago

The name is ok, not good or bad. 7 out of 10.

The logo though. Good type, horrible website icon. It has the Star of David on it. The only ethnicity to Google auto-complete to banking conspiratorial pages is represented by this symbol. There are lots of idiots in the world, I know, but I wouldn't go with this logo. The one on the actual card is much, much better.

jason_slack• 15 years ago

I hope I get an invite too. I requested one from the start...

ck2• 15 years ago

Whoa - what did that domain name cost them.

kevinherron• 15 years ago

Great! Why haven't I gotten my invite yet? :)

kr1shna3• 15 years ago

How soon can we something like this in Europe?

Joeri• 15 years ago

The banking market in europe is not as unified. Simple would have to approach europe country by country. For example, retail banking in italy is nearly ten times as expensive as in the netherlands.

There's a study by the EU on this topic: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/docs/study_bank_fees_en...

kr1shna3• 15 years ago

It is a horrible mess here, which is a great service like Mint.com can't be provided either.

mhd• 15 years ago

A pan-European, unified solution would indeed be rather hard to do, but even going country by country you could earn quite some money. Start with the UK (fewer i18n and support problems), then probably the countries who are paying for the rest of the EuroZone right now.

basseq• 15 years ago

My checking account is fundamentally a revolving cash account between a portion of my paycheck and my monthly bills (cc, mortgage, utilities, etc.). Other than autopay bills, all my purchases go through my credit card (which is then another autopay against my checking acct.). I manage all this at a macro level through Mint.

I never visit my bank website, partly because it sorta sucks, but partly because I have no reason to—I really just care about the balance. Additional views would be nice, but I need it at the macro level to incorporate all my accounts (which Mint, admittedly, falls short on). I don't use my debit card for anything other than ATM cash.

My checklist for a checking account is pretty short:

1. No fees. (Including ATM fees. I'm reimbursed if a third-party charges one, too.) 2. Smartphone check deposit. 3. Features / Customer Service / Interest Rate, etc.

Simple's down in that third bucket (and they don't meet criteria #1).

bradleyland3• 15 years ago

Simple's FAQ says no fees:

https://www.simple.com/faq/

Although you may be referring to third-party ATM fees. I'm curious which banks still reimburse for third-party ATM fees. Can you share the name of your bank?

286c8cb04bda• 15 years ago

Not the OP, but I have a bank account at Schwab[1], and they refund all ATM fees that other banks charge.

[1] http://www.schwab.com/

doomie• 15 years ago

SF Fire Credit Union (http://www.sffirecu.org/checking-savings/checking). No fees.

maaku5• 15 years ago

First republic bank Free ATM checking (firstrepublicbank.com).

Also no foreign transaction fees (very nice for a traveller).

damoncali5• 15 years ago

USAA reimburses third party fees, has a nice iphone app for deposits, and a generally sound web interface. If you can get in, I highly recommended them.

intelekshual• 15 years ago

Ally reimburses third-party ATM fees, as well: http://www.ally.com/

al3x38• 15 years ago

We're planning on doing smartphone check deposit. We have a huge fee-free ATM network, but you're right, we don't reimburse all ATM fees. Thing is, most banks that do reimburse all ATM fees are either making that money back by charging account maintenance fees or subsidizing it through brokerage account fees. There's no free lunch.

So, we may not be a perfect fit for you, but I hope you'll give us a second look with that in mind.

adamio3• 15 years ago

I already have a checking account. The website interface works. Its not trendy glossy HTML5, but that's ok because my money isn't handed over to a third party who gets to profit off its interest on my behalf. What problem are you solving? The user interface for bank's sites are not good? So you are a different user interface and all I have to do is put my money in a black box? Who is funding these startups, wow. I have no confusion over the terms of my checking account, its already simple.

al3x38• 15 years ago

There's a whole bunch of problems we're solving. More, really, than fits in an HN comment.

You're right that user experience is a primary concern for us. The interface that most people have their financial data is extremely poor. This makes answering questions about your financial life slow and clumsy, if it's even possible given the tools your bank provides. That keeps a lot of people from making the right financial decisions to stay debt-free and grow their savings.

To your point about your checking account: many checking accounts don't actually have simple terms. Increasingly, they're full of hidden fees and complex conditions.

More broadly, we're doing what we're doing because many banks aren't investing in design, technology, and customer service. Instead, they're investing in new ways to squeeze as much money as they can out of their customers without innovating. We're here to continuously experiment and improve. That may mean that we're not the right banking solution for everyone, but we think a lot of people are going to like what we've built.

adamio3• 15 years ago

Ok fair. With Simple I can have a nifty way to view my expenses and have no hidden fees. The cost to me is nothing out of pocket, but I have to let Simple manage my money. I can see being more useful than a prepaid visa card for (college)kids, but it seems rather limiting to compete with standard checking accounts.

AznHisoka3• 15 years ago

People aren't compelled to try a financial service to spend more wisely. They're compelled to try it because it "earns" them more (more interest, cash back, etc). Might be the same thing, fundamentally, but psychologically, it's not. Greed is good.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

Some people are driven to change banks because of interest rates, but those people are not the majority. Most people change banks around major life events: moving, getting married, getting your first job, etc. Or, they change banks when they have an extremely negative experience with their current bank.

Either way, changing banks is a hassle, and we really have to make it easy and compelling. But interest/rewards aren't the only motivation, or even the primary motivation, for switching one's bank according to bank industry research.

csears• 15 years ago

I suspect the (Bank)Simple guys went down the list like this when deciding on their new domain... SimpleFinanceTechnologyCorp.com (too long) SimpleFinanceTechnology.com (long, but register anyway) SimpleFinanceTech.com (meh) SimpleFinance.com (already taken) Simple.com (perfect!)

Lewisham3• 15 years ago

Did anyone else see this in the FAQ?

Who can use Simple?

To be eligible, you must:

- Be a resident of the United States and over the age of 18; - Have a Social Security number; and - Own a smartphone (iPhone or Android).

Do I really need to have a smartphone?

Well, you need to have an iOS (version 4.2 or higher) or Android device. Android phones and iPhones are preferable so that you can deposit checks using your smartphone’s camera and receive push notifications when you buy things.

I can't believe you need a smartphone to sign up. That seems absolutely crazy to me. Why can't you just accept scanned checks from a scanner? I would hazard more people have access to a scanner (even the one at work) than own a smartphone.

TylerE• 15 years ago

I'd hazard a guess that you're wrong. Dedicated scanners became totally obsolete for 99% of users with the switch to digital photography.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

We require a smartphone for more than just mobile check deposit. We want people to have our app installed so we can use it for multifactor authentication, for example. We also want to do rich push notifications of account activity, and SMS (the only viable non-smartphone option for that) isn't a great experience.

Today, there's still a bunch of people who don't have smartphones. But the previous generation of iPhone is now basically "free" at some carriers, as are many Android phones. By the time we're off our invite list and open to anyone who wants to sign up, it's going to seem crazy to support anything that isn't a smartphone.

Lewisham3• 15 years ago

Aha! Multifactor authentication is an integral part of the service. That's a USP. You should put it right in that FAQ.

A number of Internet banks used to say "hey, you could mail us checks, or you know, just keep a brick-and-mortar account open and transfer them over." The way the FAQ reads to me is that Simple are a bit bloody-minded about it, what if I never get checks? (I must have had about 2 or 3 this year, total). Then I wouldn't need a smartphone, but Simple would still not let me sign up. Saying things like multifactor authentication would help push the idea that the smartphone is really required, rather than just something helpful.

MatthewPhillips• 15 years ago

You should support Windows Phone as well.

mahyarm2• 15 years ago

Are you going to put limits on check amounts? The only checks I tend to get are payroll checks and often those are too big for most deposit by smartphone check deposit programs.

hcal• 15 years ago

I would suggest that they are no more interested in doing business with customers without a smartphone than ING Direct is interested in doing business with people who don't use the web. I think the general consensus is that the majority of banking is going to mobile over the next few years, and Simple is betting on it. Why waste a metric ton of money to service people without smartphones when 90+% of the customers you want will have them within the next few years.

ssharp• 15 years ago

They're upfront and honest about the requirements. I don't see the big deal.

Simple (from what I can see on their site) is about creating a wonderful banking experience for its customers. There is nothing wonderful about scanning and uploading checks. If the service requires a smartphone, so be it.

From a strategy standpoint, it can be assumed that most of their launch market is going to have an iOS or Android device.

Riverbed• 15 years ago

Scanning checks on a smartphone is the killer app for anyone who has a small, mobile business.

alwillis2• 15 years ago

I would hazard more people have access to a scanner (even the one at work) than own a smartphone.

That's probably not true; Reading The US smartphone landscape (http://www.asymco.com/2011/11/06/the-us-smartphone-landscape...).

Also, Nielsen points out that 43% of all cell phones in the US are smartphones; it's just a matter of time before every cell phone sold is going to be a smartphone. Apple's iPhone 3GS is free with a two-year contract.

62% of users 25-34 years old own smartphones: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/generation...

So requiring a smartphone (iOS and Android have a combined installed base of 63 million devices in the US) isn't as whacky as it sounds.

martian• 15 years ago

From the Simple FAQ:

Q: Are you like Mint?

A: No. ... Also, we hate pie charts.

Couldn't agree more.

gourneau• 15 years ago

Dear Simple Folks, may I please have an invite? Thanks!

losvedir• 15 years ago

Sigh, still waiting for an invite. Got an email in October of last year saying I could get an account "at some point [this] year", so hopefully soon.

One question, though, I can't find on the site, is whether I receive any interest. And, if so, at what rate?

al3x38• 15 years ago

You will receive interest. In fact, we automatically move your money around behind the scenes so you earn as much interest as possible.

I don't know when we'll start publishing our interest rates, but we have some additional info about interest rates on our FAQ: https://www.simple.com/faq/

corin_5• 15 years ago

Hi Alex - in a previous comment you said:

> When you get your Simple card, it'll say "issued by {Bank Name}" on the back.

How does that fit around moving money around behind the scenes? Will each customer's money be limited to a single bank, and moved around between account types? Will all Simple's customers be using one bank that you have partnered with?

If not, could one Simple account actually have its funds stored between multiple different banks (or multiple accounts within a single bank)?

And when you say "we automatically move your money..." are we talking about the automated equivilent of when a bank phones / writes to you saying "looking at your behaviour over the last 5 years this account might fit you better...", or is it more like "every day your money might move somewhere else", or (I assume this) where between those two?

If I weren't English then I'd be signing up for sure, good luck :)

powertower• 15 years ago

https://www.simple.com/

Seriously broken website, at least it is in IE8.

j_s• 15 years ago

Perhaps not the kindest words, but it is true... hopefully someone who can fix it sees this in spite of the down-voters!

http://browserling.com/explorer/8.0/https%3A//simple.com

tomwans• 15 years ago

Yup, I'm aware and working on it.

jamgraham• 15 years ago

Looks like most invites will go out in 2012.

http://twitter.com/#!/ryansnyder

phi1618• 15 years ago

Interesting concept, but I'm skeptical how successful it can be. Banks are trying to get more money out of customers, in large part, to compensate for the costs of cyber-theft. Banks would rather reimburse your stolen money and recapture it through xyz fee, than lose your confidence.

Simple does nothing to solve the bigger issue of our insecure networks. From what I've seen, they're no different from any other company offering online banking services. Add in the fact that they don't have any physical collateral, and maybe they're even more vulnerable than traditional banks...

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

Do you have data on banks increasing fees to combat the expense of "cyber-theft"? That's a new one to me. Banks have mostly been raising fees because new legislation in the US has cut into their interchange revenue. Plus, the cost of building and maintaining physical branches remains high, and foot traffic to those branches is decreasing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "physical collateral", but we do take steps above and beyond what many banks offer to make our systems and our customers more secure. We're offering multi-factor authentication, and we participate in rigorous internal and third-party security audits.

In some ways, our partner-based model improves our security stance. Our systems never touch sensitive data like customer debit card numbers.

I appreciate your concerns about security. Please understand that it's a top priority for us.

ohyes3• 15 years ago

So... lets say someone hacks my Simple account (or simply phishes the password) and drains all of its funds.

What happens then?

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

We're in the same position that your current bank is in when it comes to fraud and theft: we're insured for it, and we follow industry-standard practices when something bad happens.

Most likely, what would happen is:

1. You realize that your account has been compromised. 2. You call us up. 3. We investigate your claims with our partners. 4. You get reimbursed. 5. If there was a security flaw on our side that we can fix to prevent this from happening in the future, we do so.

We have a comprehensive security review process and participate in internal and external (third-party) security audits. We're also taking steps to make it more difficult for attackers to compromise your account through multi-factor authentication and other mechanisms.

If you have any other questions about our security practices, please contact us: hello@simple.com or security@simple.com.

ohyes3• 15 years ago

Thanks for responding,

So when you say you aren't a bank, you really do follow many standard banking industry practices (at least in terms of security/insurance).

I think it is important that you show this when advertising a service like this to possible customers.

I appreciate the importance of keeping the pitch simple, but for me, I act a little more cautiously with my money than I would signing up for a new social network or something of that nature.

I want to be able to read all of the fine print and know exactly what recourse/assurance I have, before I fill out an application. Having it spelled out somewhere is important. Perhaps I simply couldn't find that part of the site, (but even if that is the case), any security guarantees might be worth putting front and center.

middayc2• 15 years ago

looks good, but I'm not sure if necessary very-good-modern-design == simple ?

not trying to be down on you, just asking about it now because when I make stuff for others I don't have this corellation and to me the simplest thing is many times command-line.

al3x38• 15 years ago

Hi, cofounder of Simple here.

This is a good point.

We think there's a difference between "simple" and "stark" or "minimalist". Our goal is to create an experience that's inviting, explorable, and clear. That doesn't necessarily mean doing away with all visual ornamentation.

Sure, plain text is "simple", but iconography, texture, and other design elements can contribute to that ideal as well. Thanks for your thoughts!

pinwale• 15 years ago

The "atom" logo on the website and the card have a different number of loops.

Have you guys standardized the number of loops or is the number of loops a clever way of denoting different products?

middayc2• 15 years ago

Yes, I agree with you. There are many types of "simple" and iconography, texture, .. can help the simplicity if used very well.

I would just be really careful when doing this very rich design that the designer doesn't get carried away and forget that the design should be serving simplicity and not the other way around.

Good luck with the product!

darrenkopp• 15 years ago

Just out of curiosity, how much did the domain name cost?

vijayr• 15 years ago

How much did the "simple.com" domain cost you? :)

Aloisius• 15 years ago

Man, whoever their PR person is, they're sure good at getting to be #1 on HN. It seems like every month there is a new BankSimple story and every month the same comments pop up asking who they are and how they work.

I do think maybe they should pick a better username though.

klbarry• 15 years ago

Will Simple ever integrate with, say, kingstrade or another investment program? That [!] would make things amazingly simple. I suppose that would take away their own income, though :)

al3x38• 15 years ago

We've considered it. Not something we're likely to do in the next year, but it's on our radar.

xradionut2• 15 years ago

Unfortunately they need to make their web site cross-browser functional. Doesn't function well in IE8.

I still have no idea why I would need their service. My current financial institutions provide awesome service without cryptic bs. Consumer banking and small business banking is simple to the moderately educated.

al3x38• 15 years ago

If you're happy with your current bank, you're probably not our target customer.

I think we're doing some stuff that's pretty different in terms of making your financial data easy to explore and helping you meet savings goals and automatically earn more interest. Those things might not be compelling to everyone, but a lot of people seem interested.

ganeumann4• 15 years ago

I think, when you say that banking is simple to the moderately educated, you're objectively wrong. Banking regularly comes out as one of the bottom few industries in reputation and one of the top few industries in customer complaints. A huge number of people in the US really, really dislike their banks.

There are some people who do some work to make sure they choose a bank that will not treat them poorly and then continue to do the work to make sure that they don't incur surprise fees or other pitfalls. Those people think their banks are just fine. But, really, why is all that work necessary? The idea behind Simple is to have a company that treats you well by default.

xradionut2• 15 years ago

"I think, when you say that banking is simple to the moderately educated, you're objectively wrong."

Moderately educated means that a person as spent a few days in their lifetime informing themselves how simple accounting and consumer/small business banking works. It's not rocket science. If you can't read a simple financial or income statement, you can't make an informed decision about a choosing a bank or understand starting a company. Most people do cargo-cult personal finance.

Why should people pay a middle man for good treatment when they can shop around and find a credit union that will do so, sans the vig?

antoncohen2• 15 years ago

What if I need to bank in-person? I know it seems odd these days, one example is if you need a lot of cash. I hit my maximum daily ATM withdrawal limit last week, it was extremely annoying. I happen to have accounts at two banks, so I used my other account to get around it. I used to exclusively use online banking (E*TRADE Bank). Not being able to go to a bank in-person, for things like cash or money orders, become a real problem. I switched to normal retail banking.

How would I handle these issues with Simple?

al3x38• 15 years ago

Daily ATM withdrawal limits are something we have some freedom to adjust, but ATM owners get to set their own limits as well. We're generally trying to make it easy to make substantial withdrawals purchases and such while still keeping a lookout for fraudulent activity.

We're issuing checks, so you can always make a check out to "cash" and take that into any physical bank if need be. Over time, though, I expect products like Square to make it possible to transact with your Simple debit card in places that might have previously required cash or a check.

antoncohen2• 15 years ago

Thanks for responding. I like the idea, and Square-like services will make card transactions easier in the future. But I really think you need to focus on this cash/large transaction problem. I've never thought about taking a check for "cash" to a bank, but I highly doubt it will work for a large sum of money, especially if it isn't your bank. My experience with cashing check at banks other than my own is they either refuse, or if the check is drawn on their bank they will do it for a fee.

Here is a list of reasons I have needed large amounts of cash:

* Last week a friend needed cash right away, I loaned it to them. That friend actually had the money in the bank, except that there are no local branches for my friend's bank. After this experience I think my friend will be getting a bank with nation-wide branches.

* I've never taken out a car loan, I've always paid with cash or a bank secured check (money order). Try buying a car with a personal check or debit card.

* Buying a MacBook on craigslist. Random people don't use Square.

* I use to modify/build cars. Buying used engines and parts costs a lot, cash or money order required.

* Neiman Marcus only takes AMAX. Visa debit cards are useless there. There isn't much you can buy at Neiman Marcus that is less than an ATM max.

inmygarage• 15 years ago

I wish Simple would consider supporting all ATMs, not just in-network ones. And by supporting, I mean reimbursing all ATM-related fees. Ally does this. Although Ally is a bank rather than a front-end-for-a-bank, this feature has become increasingly important to me as I find myself increasingly patronizing cash-only establishments.

al3x38• 15 years ago

We've explained in our FAQ why we don't do this currently: https://www.simple.com/faq/

Basically, reimbursing ATM fees is an illusion. They charge you over here and reimburse you over there. No net win for most consumers, unfortunately.

plusbryan• 15 years ago

I'm curious about this - it's one of the reasons I love banking with Schwab. No fees for ATM use, even internationally. I rarely need cash, but when I do, it's really convenient that I can use any stinky old corner ATM.

I ask honestly: what illusion am I missing?

andrethegiant• 15 years ago

Can the user choose for their money to deposited in a credit union rather than a bank?

cloudhead• 15 years ago

So I'm guessing this is US-only?

kjell• 15 years ago

I signed up for the waiting list 04/2010. Anyone here that's already in? When was your sign up?

netmau5• 15 years ago

I really like what you guys are trying to do here, but you still haven't made it more appealing than getting frequent flyer miles on my credit card. I know you want to use the normal card fees to make some cash, but why do you need those + deposit interest?

My brick & mortar bank provides me with a free-to-use checking account w/debit card in exchange for the interest made off my deposits. My credit card, paid in full each month, provides the same free service with flyer miles. The value proposition of making my data easier to search and filter from the information already given to me at my current bank/CC websites doesn't do it for me.

Love what I've seen, but I hope you guys find a better value/price point.

al3x38• 15 years ago

There's a couple of outcomes I can see:

1. We just aren't the right banking service for you. 2. We find out that a lot of people are interested in rewards programs, and we come up with a really compelling one. We've addressed that briefly in our FAQ, FWIW.

Either way, thanks for your feedback.

maxklein• 15 years ago

So the "change banking startup" has morphed into a credit card reseller?

al3x38• 15 years ago

No, nothing has changed about our mission but our name.

Like basically every US bank, we issue a debit card. That card needs to be on one of the card networks. We chose Visa for our cards.

What we're issuing is a debit card, not a credit card. It's standard practice for banks.

moizsyed• 15 years ago

"Drop the 'bank.' Just 'Simple'. It's cleaner."

ben1040• 15 years ago

I already use a small local bank. They have only a handful of branches and it's pretty easy to get stuff done with them.

I don't want to change that relationship because I am happy with it, and I certainly don't want to abstract the whole thing through a middleman. It doesn't look like Simple is really right for me anyway as I have several joint checking accounts and a business account as well.

But, I really wish my bank had some of the really slick online banking/mobile deposit capture features that Simple is promising. I hope that if Simple gains some traction, they can offer white label online banking services to banks or brand it as "LocalBankCo online banking, powered by Simple."

al3x38• 15 years ago

We're not going to aggregate your existing accounts, so no, we may not be right for you.

We're also not super interested in getting into white labeling, but it's something we've thought about.

paulocal• 15 years ago

Love the new name and domain. Love the design of the card!

Two questions though:

1) Are actual branches in the roadmap at all? Digital banking is great but has its limitations.

2) How about deposits? Can we take pictures of a check? Or make deposites at an ATM?

tucaz• 15 years ago

I don't live in the US but I do some business there sometimes. It would be really nice if foreigners could open an account, but I think that because the lack of a Social Security Number this is not possible, right?

Actually, I have a bank account (and debit card) in a small bank in Iowa so maybe this is not an issue at all.

Now I'm confused. Can someone who knows or lives in the US clarify this one?

jackgavigan• 15 years ago

So the main thing I take away from this thread is this: Simple isn't.

alwillis2• 15 years ago

I signed up for Simple née BankSimple nearly a year ago—I have an email dated November 30, 2010 that says I'm in their queue.

I literally can't wait to open my Simple account, especially as 2011 is winding down.

Being an early adopter and someone who became disillusioned with our financial institutions, especially the banks, signing up for Simple was a no-brainer for me.

I cringe every time I have to deal with old-school, traditional banks; every month I hope it'll be the last one I have to deal with these archaic and broken institutions.

As far as I'm concerned, I can't open my Simple account soon enough. I don't have any connection to the company or any of its employees. However, I do recognize when there's a better solution to an existing pain-point.

I know I'm not alone in experiencing how broken banking has become—I have a $35 overdraft because I bought a $1.99 app that overdrew my account. Yeah, I'm looking at you Bank of America.

I have my fingers crossed that I'll be in the first big wave of customers as Simple continues expanding its customer base since I signed up long before the Johnny-come-lately's showed up.

cmelbye• 15 years ago

Wow, amazing to hear that it's finally here. I have an email from June 22, 2010 confirming my invitation request, hopefully I'll see something soon.

NanoWar• 15 years ago

On HN, branding and naming discussions prevail :( .

drivingmenuts2• 15 years ago

Who are the partner banks? Who is actually going to be holding onto the money?

BankSimple invites first customers; rebrands itself as Simple

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