Love Song to Costco

https://longreads.com/2022/06/16/love-song-to-costco/

by lxm • 4 years ago

366 271 4 years ago

Wistar• 4 years ago

I really like that piece.

wude935• 4 years ago

As a child of AAPI immigrants, this piece really hit home, especially when the author mentioned how the struggles of her parent’s generation impacted the way she was raised.

edmcnulty1015• 4 years ago

As a native born and poor American without any parents I feel the same way going to Costco. Its miraculous.

After being homeless a few times as a native born American I still feel like showers are the ultimate luxury.

I'm always happy to see immigrants with jobs in America and Europe but I can't help but wonder what can we do to make other countries as desirable as America?

Theres billions of people. Why aren't their countries desirable as well?

Why is North America and Europe the main destination for the entire world to wish to immigrate to?

Why doesn't almost any country in Africa South and Central America, Asia, and India continents have immigration problems and what can we all do to make it desirable for people to want to be in their homes?

lotsofpulp9• 4 years ago

Because they are higher trust societies with less low level corruption, allowing one to have more peace of mind in day to day life.

Simply going out in a vehicle is magnitudes riskier in the country my parents come from. My whole extended family can afford maids, cooks, and drivers, yet they all moved because they wanted a lower volatility life for their children, even if it meant doing your own laundry, cleaning, cooking, and driving.

elbigbad• 4 years ago

Can you say more? My spouses family was same, I go visit them in their country and they have lavish wealth (comparatively to others in the country) and maids and cooks and such. But they moved to developed nations like AUS, US, and UK.

wyldfire2• 4 years ago

higher trust societies with less low level corruption

Without a doubt this seems like a big/major factor. But we have corruption in the US. Do we have less corruption because of enforcement of anti-corruption laws? Or do we have those laws and an expectation that they're enforced because of some other factors? Not rhetorical, I just don't know. Casually it seems like many European countries have the same or greater expectations and similar prosperity. When I read stories about Russia and the former Soviet republics it makes me think that there's so much mistrust and hopelessness that a corrupt government is taken for granted.

I have no idea whether or not the US is exceptional but if it is I wouldn't jump to describe it as virtuous. But I do wish I could understand what policies we could pursue that might make other societies similarly high trust.

formerkrogemp• 4 years ago

Because they are higher trust societies with less low level corruption, allowing one to have more peace of mind in day to day life.

Certainly this is a factor, but let's not forget the decades of destabilizing influence, coups, assassinations, wars, sanctions, and foreign policy promulgated by the US to keep some countries poor to maintain US interests.

teddyh• 4 years ago

Because they are higher trust societies with less low level corruption

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

(Also, if you are comparing places, don’t forget to also consult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)

edmcnulty1015• 4 years ago

What can we do to make India, Africa, Asia, and South/Central America filled with high trust societies like Europe, North America, and Australia?

And keep these current high trust societies trust from continuing to be eroded? On the front page of HN at the same time this article is.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32050417

prostoalex• 4 years ago

what can we all do to make it desirable for people to want to be in their homes?

Great book on the subject is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail It explores precisely this phenomenon - why certain places that have geographic proximity (Dominican Republic and Haiti, Nogales AZ and Nogales Sonora) drifted so far away from one another economically, why some places with vast natural resources (Nigeria) are undesirable while some other countries with limited natural resources (Japan, Singapore) are economic successes.

pm90• 4 years ago

Theres billions of people. Why aren't their countries desirable as well?

Because whenever they have political systems that promote stability or justice, those leaders are overthrown in favor of those who will obey diktaks of the IMF/World Bank/WTO which generally promote privatization and wealth concentration.

So other countries are desirable but have low social/economic mobility.

Panzer042• 4 years ago

By and large, the problem is unfortunately the reverse.

If you have resources, your government ends up either an corrupt, nepotistic authoritarian hellhole or a corrupt, nepotistic socialist paradise (until the oil/gold/diamonds/gas run out, at which point it becomes a corrupt, nepotistic authoritarian hellhole)

Most countries have the problem of corrupt, nepotistic governments that look after the insiders at the expense of the rest of the population - subsidies for their mates, tariffs on overseas imports the help your friend but screw an industry, etc. The simplest way of avoiding the most destructive consequences of bad governance is often to just remove the government from the equation.

foogazi• 4 years ago

Because whenever they have political systems that promote stability or justice, those leaders are overthrown in favor of those who will obey diktaks of the IMF/World Bank/WTO

simplistic reasoning, but IMF was funded in 1945 - what’s your explanation for the previous 20 centuries?

wyager• 4 years ago

Why aren't their countries desirable as well?

See e.g. National IQ and Economic Development: A Study of Eighty-One Nations, by Lynn and Vanhanen.

There is a superlinear relationship between average IQ and GDPPC.

Research precludes a predominant causal relationship from GDPPC to IQ (e.g. via Flynn effect); all that is left is that population intelligence causally precedes GDPPC.

Panzer042• 4 years ago

Mostly less stable governance, often with less protection of private rights (though obviously most of these countries are just poorer as well).

If you have no assets, it’s also far easier to make money in a rich country and move back rich, rather than the reverse.

throwamon• 4 years ago

Why aren't their countries desirable as well?

Yup, that would be pretty nice. If only America would let them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

unethical_ban• 4 years ago

I just had my bike stolen from me in broad daylight. I said to myself "this is the kind of thing that happens in Brazil, not here".

TulliusCicero• 4 years ago

Yup, that would be pretty nice. If only America would let them.

And yet, if you ask people actually from those countries, rarely will they pin Uncle Sam as the primary reason they're still not well developed.

edmcnulty1015• 4 years ago

I didn't see where the US interfered with China or India's elections.

I didn't see where the US interfered with Mexico's elections.

Those are a huge portion of the immigrants to the U.S if not the majority.

toast02• 4 years ago

Why doesn't almost any country in Africa South and Central America, Asia, and India continents have immigration problems and what can we all do to make it desirable for people to want to be in their homes?

Some countries do have immigration problems and emmigration problems. If they're more desirable than nearby countries, but not nearly as desirable as US/EU, then they'll pull in their neighbors, potentially too much at times, but still have those with resources leaving when they can.

IMHO, things people are looking for are physical safety, political stability, economic stability and opportunity, legal stability (rule of law, predictable courts, timely access to courts, reasonable law enforcement).

The top reasons people I hear people say they come to the US are because it's unsafe for them where they live, or to have the opportunity to make more money.

akomtu• 4 years ago

Here is an unscientific explanation. NA and EU are populated by older souls: some of them see the value of giving, while others, who've chosen the wrong path, are adepts at scheming; but both are similar in their maturity. The less mature souls are still busy with mastering their emotions and their nations are too chaotic for this reason: they either fall apart without a leader, or when a mature leader presents itself, they have to be ruled by an iron fist (China, India). Eventually the focus will shift to another place on Earth: the most advanced will move on there and America will join the long list of empires that were once great, but that event is still a thousand years away.

gumby2• 4 years ago

My great grandfather moved to a different part of Asia and never went back. My grandfather moved elsewhere and never went back. My mother moved to another continent and then later, with my father, to a third, where I partially grew up. And I moved to yet another continent (with another emigrée), speaking a language that, like my mother, I had learned after growing up.

Yet today I spoke English with a stranger, a woman born to Indian immigrants and she spoke with the same hand gestures I do.

smugma• 4 years ago

Sounds like the beginning of a true love story.

godelmachine• 4 years ago

Did you ask her out for a coffee?

permo-w2• 4 years ago

what does this have to do with Costco?

gumby2• 4 years ago

Thanks for asking if it wasn’t clear.

The article used Costco as a vehicle for exploring the experience, and yet so some degree trauma, of moving away from your birthplace. I read it through the lens of a common belief that Asian families in particular are very close and don’t handle migration well.

I mentioned my story because it’s a contradictory example, but also because I believe that the belief that somehow “Asians” can’t handle family separation is not correct — I believe all people have roughly the same percentage of “gotta stay here” and “gotta go somewhere else” — it’s just human nature.

The last part of my story also relates to the Costco article: despite a lot of time there I never lived in India, nor, thanks to the laws and attitudes of where I was born did I speak much of any Asian languages with my mother yet decades later I, and some American woman of Indian decent whom I’d never met before, used the same body language and gestures while speaking. Where did that come from?

jnord• 4 years ago

Great story, thanks for sharing!

W-Stool• 4 years ago

In 2005 my wife and I lived in a part of the USA that had no Costco within a half day's drive. We soon secured jobs in a part of the USA that had two (two!) Costcos in the same city that we would live. True story - before we even looked for housing, I went online and joined Costco. Years later my diabetic cat even had a Costco pharmacy account (best place to buy insulin by far) and received a discount for being without health insurance.

SOLAR_FIELDS2• 4 years ago

I have a Costco account and a Sam's Club (Walmart's Costco equivalent) account. Even though I do something like 98% of my bulk shopping at Sam's club (due to proximity, the Costco is ~ 15 min drive away vs 5 mins for the Sam's club), it's still worth it for me to hold the Costco membership for specific purchases. Notably I've purchased (because there's no better place to buy these things and the vendor vetting is amazing) bedsheets, smart thermostats & a sauna from Costco over the last year and those have easily made back the $60 USD it cost me to buy the membership. I'll probably end up buying a gazebo kit from Costco sometime in the next year.

I think for semi-big purchases ($USD 200 to $USD $20,000) as a consumer Costco has huge value. The vendor vetting thing may not be as important when it comes to a bag of chips, but when it comes to a $4,000 gazebo or some $2,000 appliance I have really come to trust Costco's vetting.

cyberge99• 4 years ago

Costco also works out deals to sell “special” revisions of major brand offerings. One example is a Sony Bravia that has a physical microphone disable switch.

inferiorhuman7• 4 years ago

when it comes to a $4,000 gazebo or some $2,000 appliance I have really come to trust Costco's vetting.

How does that jive with selling Samsung (and LG) appliances? Samsung is easily the worst appliance manufacturer in North America across pretty much any appliance. LG's not too much better but supposedly their dryers and front load washers are decent.

Akronymus• 4 years ago

(due to proximity, the Costco is ~ 15 min drive away vs 5 mins for the Sam's club)

this kinda makes me... sad, I guess? Just how embedded the need to drive is for america. (As in, having to drive, rather than being able to)

Just such a different culture from what I know.

gnicholas3• 4 years ago

Years later my diabetic cat even had a Costco pharmacy account (best place to buy insulin by far) and received a discount for being without health insurance.

IIRC, you don't need a membership to:

• shop at the pharmacy

• buy alcohol

• eat at the food court

I believe the first two are due to govt regulations, and may only apply in certain states.

It's also much easier for anyone to shop at Costco with a spouse's/friend's membership card now that they have self-checkout. You used to have to worry about the cashier flagging you if the cardholder wasn't there, but now there's no one who even looks at your card.

legalcorrection4• 4 years ago

It's also much easier for anyone to shop at Costco with a spouse's/friend's membership card now that they have self-checkout. You used to have to worry about the cashier flagging you if the cardholder wasn't there, but now there's no one who even looks at your card.

Or how about don't be a liar/cheater and buy your own membership. It's not expensive and it pays for itself fast. Shame on whoever does this.

ortusdux• 4 years ago

The alcohol restriction is at the state level, so some stores do require a membership.

Namely : Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Texas, & Vermont have laws that ban requiring memberships for the purchase of alcohol.

IIRC, Costco's lobbiests played a large role in Washington's privatization of liquor sales, and the final law did not include such a restriction.

For those interested, the break even on a 2% cash back membership is at the $2k/year.

inferiorhuman7• 4 years ago

eat at the food court

That changed a couple years back.

https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Costco-food-court-me...

rdl4• 4 years ago

Just get someone to give you Costco gift cards; you can then enter the store with that gift card, and use other payment mechanism for the balance of purchase.

throwawayarnty• 4 years ago

Amazing how much China has changed over the past 60 years. From backwards and famined to a global super power.

speed_spread• 4 years ago

But are there Costcos in China?

Also, do people in China get out of the city to go camping for the weekend?

These are honest questions I'd like to have answers for.

mchaver• 4 years ago

But are there Costcos in China?

Yes, I know there is one in Shanghai.

https://www.costco.com.cn

Also, do people in China get out of the city to go camping for the weekend?

I am not sure about camping, but glamping is popular with young people.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/glamping-china-trend-...

merlyn2• 4 years ago

Yes, Costcos, Sam's Clubs. Ikea. Carrefour. Walmart. Apple. Oppo stores.

Probably not around at the time that the article's author's parents emigrated.

There are people doing more of the outdoor thing in China now. Probably none going about 20 years back. Last time I was there, there were recreational bicyclists (ie. taking them off the back of their car) in the cities, as opposed to my first visits where many more bicycles for their comute than cars.

markles• 4 years ago

Most cities have plenty of hiking and camping groups you can join. Hiking and other outdoor activities have grown considerably in popularity in the last couple of decades.

Lots of stone path walkways which people will refer to as hiking, but isn't what most in Europe or the US would consider it to be. There are groups that build off old paths that connect villages or which were used for hunting. Some areas have really nice networks of trails, though, just not to the extent you'd find elsewhere.

pirate7872• 4 years ago

Really the progress started with Deng Xiaoping, so just in the last 45 years. But China has 20% of all humanity, so really just stepping back into its rightful place after the disaster of Maoism.

jamiek88• 4 years ago

Costco blew my tiny little mind when I was fresh off the boat too!

atlgator• 4 years ago

I wish Costco still had early entry for elderly and disabled. That was really nice during the pandemic.

brewdad• 4 years ago

Somewhere there's a grandma that still has a garage full of toilet paper thanks to getting in the door early.

notkurt• 4 years ago

Did anyone else read Costco as Contoso first? Or am I the only one holding out for a love song dedicated to Contoso

vxNsr• 4 years ago

You’ve spent too much time reading Microsoft documentation

walrus013• 4 years ago

Apparently Microsoft keeps the domain for contoso.net and contoso.com registered and its mx receives a vast quantity of mail from misconfigured things out in the wild.

avgDev• 4 years ago

I too have attended the Contoso university.

lbrito2• 4 years ago

Haven't read the piece yet, but I definitely will - for a long time I would like to understand why people are so enamored with Costco. I recently joined because they have some good food that is hard or more expensive to find elsewhere, but that's about it. To me it's just a store. Outside of the US/Canada I've never seen people evangelize a store so much.

kvark• 4 years ago

For me, it’s a modern equivalent of the soviet stores. There is no 10 kinds of everything, but the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality and at an affordable price.

Speaking more modern, it saves the mental effort of researching choices. Need something? Check Costco, buy if there, done.

Of course there are negatives associated with them, too.

el-salvador• 4 years ago

PriceSmart, (Costco's Latin American cousin), does something similar too.

They research/test the products before selling them so that they comply with their quality standards. So once products are on the shelves its likely that they are good.

This make buying decisions easier. Which is a much better shopping experience than having to read a dozen product reviews while shopping online.

inferiorhuman7• 4 years ago

the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality and at an affordable price

I bought into the hype and got a Costco membership a few years back. One of the first things I went looking for was whole bean coffee (Peet's xmas roast). The local Costco had a bunch of coffee from Starbucks and Peets (meh quality to start) but only the painfully dark roasts and all of it was ground. Pre-ground coffee in bulk has a pretty limited use case (and relatively short shelf life).

Fast forward to last week and I went looking for a new fridge at Costco dot com. They prominently featured LG (ugh) and Samsung refrigerators. While some LG models seem to review pretty well I've never seen anyone say anything positive about Samsung, their service, or the serviceability of their appliances. I'm in the middle of dealing with a defective LG fridge and that's about the nicest thing I can say about LG's warranty and customer support.

Costco may have a permissive return policy and decent customer support but I would never blindly buy something without doing a bit of research just because it's at Costco. Especially with a big ticket item like a fridge I'd rather use my Amex anyhow.

rexf2• 4 years ago

Yeah, Costco has OK selection and OK/good prices. The downside for groceries is the bulk sizing can be much more than you want to buy.

Their return policy is also very good. Obviously do not abuse this (or you are being a jerk). This means you can buy things without hesitation since you can easily return it should you run into an issue later.

mantas• 4 years ago

soviet stores
but the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality

Yeah, right... Nope.

badpun• 4 years ago

soviet stores. (...) but the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality and at an affordable price

Must be different soviets that I lived in. The quality was often terrible (e.g. "chocolate" that did not contain cocoa at all, ugly clothes and shoes that would break down quickly, beer that tasted like piss etc.) and that is assuming the goods were in the store at all. Basic western goods, such as Levi jeans or can of Coca-Cola were celebrated as artifacts of an alien, infinitely more advanced civilization.

nradov• 4 years ago

That's true for some categories of goods but not all. They have way more than 10 kinds of wine.

namdnay• 4 years ago

I guess the european equivalent would be LIDL

f1refly• 4 years ago

soviet stores. There is no 10 kinds of everything, but the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality

According to people from the former soviet block I know, the reason they got so good at fixing stuff is because the first thing they did after buying an appliance from a store (after it became available eventually) was fixing it because nothing ever worked as expected. I guess "nothing" is an overstatement but I still wouldn't use the soviet union as an example for great product quality.

findjashua• 4 years ago

2 words: quality control

geodel• 4 years ago

You are right that at the end of day it is just a store. I know many people who keep renewing Costco membership every year but goes like once or twice a year. I on the other end is in same category that author describes. Even for gallon of milk I'd prefer going Costco and if there is more than one item it is not even a question.

To me most basic thing would be great quality at that price level that I guess everyone else is also looking for. At deeper level by reducing choice it sets a familiar pattern of food I eat on daily/weekly/monthly basis. Or for clothes just like people wear brands and proud to announce it. For me it is I do not wear brands and similarly proud of the fact.

14• 4 years ago

It you eat the food they offer you can definitely get it at a better price. Furthermore Costco demands a higher quality for certain products. I don’t have the source on that but read somewhere once that say the can of soup you get at a regular grocery store then compare it to Costco they have better ingredients things like higher protein for example. I also know things like protein powder were the same price but much larger at Costco. Meat is much better quality and cheaper. Their return policy is hassle free. Probably a lot more I could say about Costco.

grapeskin• 4 years ago

I was a member for 2 years, although outside of the US.

The store is mostly US/UK/Australian imports of questionable quality, prices far higher than local goods (which is to be expected when shipped long distance for one specific chain), and questionable desirability (e.g. sauces not used much in local cuisine, of far lower quality than local brands, in containers far larger while also more expensive per gram). Products Americans would want from home are also almost non-existent. So it caters to nobody.

I think it had a lot of novelty at first since it's a very "American" thing and kind of a fun trip, but I'm not sure of the longterm viability. There's only so much you can do with a store that sells oversized budget-brand ketchup at luxury prices and stale jars of nuts.

Never visited while I was living in the US, but I doubt it could beat Winco. Bulk, low prices, often local, and no BS membership fees.

lotsofpulp9• 4 years ago

Winco is great, but it is not competing with Costco, which has a reputation for selling curated products with somewhat higher quality.

Winco is solid though, and living near both is extremely convenient.

slyall2• 4 years ago

New Zealand is getting our first store in a couple of months and people are obsessed with it. Stories in the media nearly every week. Long queues for membership.

A lot of this is because the local Supermarket Duopoly avoids competing on price and makes great profits. People are looking forward to cutting their costs and also a flow-on as the supermarkets cut their prices a little to compete.

Similar to IKEA which is a year or so away. Easy to take for granted when you have it but the alternative is paying a lot more for similar to worse quality.

divbzero3• 4 years ago

It would be fascinating to be part of that team at Costco or IKEA planning to open a new store in a new country. On top of the challenges you can think of, there must be aspects of running the business that you take for granted in your home country and don’t realize will be a challenge in the new country.

surfmike• 4 years ago

Costco entering Iceland also had a measurable effect on the country’s inflation rate.

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/food-prices-drop-thanks-c...

lordgrenville• 4 years ago

I would guess that island conditions naturally lead to (at least tacit) price collusion, such that the entry of a multinational might not lead to prices going down. (In the US, the classic case is White vs. Packer, about gas prices in Martha's Vineyard.) IKEA prices vary a lot between countries. https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/121925681/no...

mixmastamyk• 4 years ago

Where will the stores be located? Auckland or greater Wellington perhaps?

freeqaz• 4 years ago

The simplest answer to this is Kirkland Signature. It's a very genius idea that Amazon is starting to copy now with AmazonBasics, but Costco has been doing it for years.

This article explains it better than I can: https://every.to/napkin-math/how-costco-convinces-brands-to-...

TL;DR: If you buy something like Grey Goose vodka, it's going to be the same product as the Kirkland Signature version on the shelf next to it. It is often literally from the same factory. Costco AND Grey Goose make more money by being able to sell to multiple market segments.

Read that article. It's genius and one of the many reasons I love shop at Costco.

JumpCrisscross• 4 years ago

The source for this article’s core claim is a pair of Reddit comments, FYI.

pirate7872• 4 years ago

Store brands (private label brands owned by the retailer) have been around forever and are not a Costco innovation. Every US grocery store and most big box stores sell them.

shp0ngle• 4 years ago

The piece is not really about costco though. I mean it is, but not really.

bloppe• 4 years ago

ya lol it feels like 90% of the people on HN go straight to the comments without reading the pieces

sammalloy4• 4 years ago

I would like to understand why people are so enamored with Costco

I’ve been going to Costco since it was Price Club in the 1980s. I can explain why people love it. There’s an aura of mystery to the shopping experience because of the philosophy behind the layout. They basically want you to shop around the whole store because nothing is ever in the same place and product longevity beyond basic consumer staples is unheard of. In other words, it is unlikely the special product you find one week will be there the next. This kind of unpredictability goes against the grain of the reliability built into the shopping experience, and it’s what I find so attractive about it. Not only will you be exposed to something new and different, but you’ll have to settle for an entirely different product than the one you planned on buying because of the surprise factor at work. Obviously, this consumer approach won’t work for everyone, especially those who stubbornly buy the same thing every week or month.

throwaway0a5e• 4 years ago

Sounds like Ocean State Job Lot or Mardens but with a membership fee to keep the wrong crowd out.

firebird84• 4 years ago

When I worked a summer at BJ's (a similar wholesale club) the manager informed me that this was by design. I was asking why we needed to move all the stuff, if we were discontinuing or something. He said nope, we just have to do this every now and then because it keeps people shopping longer. There may be an added "experience" element to it as well, but this was an eye opener to me as a teen.

gopalv• 4 years ago

I would like to understand why people are so enamored with Costco

The first thing someone told me when I got to the US was to go to Costco, pay the membership and get an AMEX charge card for Costco.

If you are someone with zero credit history and want to buy groceries without having cash on you all the time, then Costco is a big part of the "welcome to America" package.

What Costco lacks in variety, it made up in quality and quantity (no, that's not a choice). The food is good, most things are sold at cost, gas is cheaper, diapers are cheaper ... everything with a Kirkland label is middle-of-the-curve good.

So Costco runs become a regular thing. Before you know it, it is like church - go there, show your membership and eat the wafers.

Not quite a religion, but something you still proselytize.

base698• 4 years ago

Costco only takes Visa.

bigtones• 4 years ago

Australians have had Costco for 2 years and they absolutely love it. Very popular.

Suzuran• 4 years ago

Costco is generally clean, Costco doesn't have the corporate reputation for extreme exploitation of their workers that Walmart does, Costco's store brand is actually decent, there appears to be no overt cost-cutting in store operations, and for me the big deal was that Costco was the only place around here that attempted to actually enforce mask mandates after you were inside the store. I saw one lady getting escorted out for taking her mask off and starting a fight when asked to put it back on; She screamed "I'LL NEVER SHOP HERE AGAIN!" and the employee escorting her out said matter-of-factly "Yes, that's what trespass means."

In short, they give the appearance of doing ask if the things a business should be doing in line with the intent of the law, as opposed to just doing the bare minimum to the letter of the law, and doing what you are supposed to do is so rare as to be considered exceptional.

dmos623• 4 years ago

Costco is generally clean

That makes it sound like cleanliness is not the norm in grocery stores in US.

the_doctah• 4 years ago

I'm not sure we should be proud of businesses having to force their hourly employees to act like bouncers for surly anti-maskers.

eddieroger• 4 years ago

Plenty of good points made already - gas is cheap, products are good - but what keeps me a Costco shopper is the consistent and frequent stories about them being a genuinely good employer. Maybe because I've spent my career in retail IT, but I hear all the time about how good of a place Costco is to work. Staff turnover is low, wages are good, and they close for most holidays. I may not need 48 AA batteries often, but when I do, I'd rather buy them at Costco.

lbrito2• 4 years ago

I was totally unaware of that. Thank you for pointing it out.

I assumed Costco had shitty employee treatment like other large chains. Its sad that this has become the default we have come to expect from stores and not even think about it.

michaelcampbell2• 4 years ago

Trader Joe's customers enter the chat...

I see a few stores have their evangelists, but TJ's are the most evangelical IME. Other places that seem to have their cults are Menard's and Buc-ees. I've never been to a Menards, living in the southern US, but I get the love for all the others.

ernestns• 4 years ago

In some areas where it can be costly to import goods, like Hawaii, Costco tends to be one of few reliable stores to find products at relatively reduced prices. With this type of reputation, it's understandable why their following is loyal and enthusiastic.

divbzero3• 4 years ago

I’ve always had a gut feeling that Costco’s customers represent a broader swath of socioeconomic diversity than most other stores. Don’t know how true that is and would love to learn if there’s real data behind it.

caymanjim• 4 years ago

Minor anecdotal evidence, but I live in a small semi-rural/semi-suburban town in NJ, and Costco appears to have a full cross-section of people. It does seem slightly more economically-diverse than the regular grocery and retail stores, in that you'll see a lot more rich people (by virtue of driving Porsches and Mercedes) at Costco than you will at Walmart.

insightcheck• 4 years ago

Business Insider hired an analytics firm named Numerator to create a report that finds on the average Costco customer [0]. I couldn't find the original data or report in Business Insider's summary, but from its article:

"Numerator found that Costco's typical shopper in the US is an Asian American woman between 35 and 44 years old who is married and living in a city in the Pacific Northwest. (Costco was founded in Seattle and is based in Washington.) She typically has a four-year degree or higher level of education and earns more than $125,000 a year."

I'm not sure whether the income of the "typical shopper" was defined based on a median or mode, so there could well be a large variance of customers with a lower socioeconomic status. A separate article by Investopedia [1] also asserts that Costco mostly opens stores in affluent suburban areas, and originally targeted college-educated and financially wealthier customers.

So, Costco's customers are likely skewed to have a higher socioeconomic status, based on the location of most of its stores in wealthier suburban areas and findings from an analytics report (with some skepticism towards the article about the report, as the raw data and methods weren't shared, as far as I could see).

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-costco-shopper-demog...

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/061516/whats-...

divbzero3• 4 years ago

I couldn’t find the original data either. Numerator offers snapshots of customer distribution [2] that go beyond just a median or mode, but does not share it publicly for Costco.

[2] https://www.numerator.com/snapshots

TheRealNGenius2• 4 years ago

that doesn't make sense. It says that the "typical shopper" is one very specific gender/age/income/racial category.

What the heck does that mean? Am I supposed to believe that the most common category of people are that category, or that those attributes are the more common ones? I'm positive I see an almost even split of male/female when I go to Costco. Otherwise, that wording is jacked by any metric.

lotsofpulp9• 4 years ago

A separate article by Investopedia [1] also asserts that Costco mostly opens stores in affluent suburban areas, and originally targeted college-educated and financially wealthier customers.

This is obvious simply by searching for Costcos on a map. Or the fact that any time your total is less than $100, the cashier and the customer joke about how lucky and rare the sub $100 receipt is.

jedberg3• 4 years ago

The median Costco shopper makes over $125,000.

listenallyall• 4 years ago

No, according to a dubious "research firm" that provides no data, the "typical" Costco shopper (define typical however you want) earns 125k. The same firm also states the typical Wal-Mart shopper earns $80k, same as both Whole Foods and Target. You can decide how close their numbers are to reality.

https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-walmart-shopper-demo...

rdl4• 4 years ago

My favorite Costco is in Iceland: a place where things are normally absurdly expensive, and Costco Iceland is merely somewhat expensive. Arrive, stock up on food for a week (to supplement with restaurants, but some savings). Costco Japan would be really fun to visit too (haven't yet).

Also Costco + Internet (Amazon, B+H, etc.) are essentially 99% of my shopping here in Puerto Rico.

Visiting Costco, Walmart, etc. immediately after returning from war zones with limited supplies is a pretty shocking experience; I can only begin to imagine what it's like for someone new to the country who is actually from such a place.

johnwalkr• 4 years ago

Costco in Japan is great. Even without an American sized fridge and freezer it is definitely worth shopping at. It’s by far the cheapest place to buy American snacks, bacon, good peanut butter, tortillas, brown sandwich bread and kind of the only place to buy bulk. It’s an hour away from me and requires a car rental but it’s easily worth going once every 2-3 months.

lostmsu• 4 years ago

How's the Internet in Puerto Rico?

rdl4• 4 years ago

I have 2Gbps symmetric fiber at home for $100/mo. There are a couple fiber vendors, cable Internet (although low upload speeds, but better than Comcast in the US), fixed wireless, and now Starlink. Internet, cell, telecommunications are all great after deregulation/privatization back in 2000; the problems are power and water (which are more government run, or monopolies selected by the government).

kepler1• 4 years ago

Related to the story's underlying topic, as an immigrant I find significant attitudinal/philosophical differences in how I regard saving money and spending money versus, for example, my American coworkers and friends, especially younger ones who grew up around relatively well-off families. Maybe the affection for Costco embodies that. I'm sure I sound like an old fart for saying this, like "those younguns don't know the value of a dollar any more".

By comparison at least, they are much freer with their money and don't have the same baggage about it. An example especially apparent for me is their willingness to spend on clothing, where I just can't bring myself to do it. Maybe just not having been brought up around parents who were ever dressed that nice, or allowed me and siblings to be. Or for example, their lack of concern about overpaying for small things, which yes in the bigger picture, who cares if you're overcharged for a drink once in a while?

I suppose it's because the information or concern about not having money was already passed down or imposed on me as a lesson early in life (whether intentionally or not). Sometimes I view it as an advantage as I see that my friends (those spending freely) will encounter those lessons when they get married, have kids, etc. and need to save. On the other hand, I wonder if I'm just handicapping myself with that baggage and not allowing myself to enjoy the freedom that a good income now brings, and living too much in the restraints of my family's past...

joveian• 4 years ago

While not necessarily the particular examples you give, there is a destructive side to the willingness to spend as well in terms of environmental impact. Lots of people in the US end up with basements or garages of stuff they don't use and can't even remember what is there or find it if they were ever to want to use it. I think there is a religion of wealth not just among the super wealthy where people think the environmental impact doesn't matter or if it does someone else will fix it or if not then they deserve it anyway. Ethically there can also be major issues, including with clothing, and the more likely to be ethical stuff can be more expensive (but not that expensive, the most expensive stuff is usually just expensive in order to show off wealth). The freedom of wealth is the freedom to shit on other people if you want to or just don't care enough to not do so. I suggest continuing to be careful about what you buy but with a wider ethical consideration rather that just looking for the best price.

gsinclair• 4 years ago

It is very possible for one to be handicapped by such baggage. My mother has been a massive penny-pincher her whole life, in reaction to her straitened circumstances as a child. I now wince when she resists things like going to a cafe lunch with friends, as a habit like that is not helpful in maintaining relationships.

But then, I probably don’t pinch the pennies tightly enough. It’s hard to get the right balance.

thethought• 4 years ago

Enjoyed the post.

I shop at Costco for

- wine, single malt, brandy, cheese, and bread

- sea food, mutton, sardines, tuna, canned stuff, tomato and citrus fruits

- dog food and bird feed

And of course their food court pizza + hot dogs

Great place.

sexy_seedbox• 4 years ago

I've never been in a Costco in my life but have eaten so much Kirkland products.

mongol5• 4 years ago

Costco will open in Sweden soon. On the opposite part of Stockholm from where I live, so I don't think it will be useful for me. I don't know much about it but I am excited to see what it will bring, and if it will affect the general grocery market around here.

unicornmama• 4 years ago

Hmmmm I wonder if they will try the bulk model. Americans have very large fridges and grocery shop once a week. Grocery stores are often a 20-30 minute drive away. In my European country people have small fridges and may buy groceries several times per week. Grocery stores are a 5-10 minutes away.

mongol5• 4 years ago

People that live in houses here usually have one fridge and one freezer, about 180 cm or so tall. In apartments, usually less.

ArtemZ3• 4 years ago

Stockholm is a horrible place to live long term. You are basically banned from owning a car, but there are no convenient connections to huge shopping centers like Kungens Kurva (and stores likes IKEA doesn't offer delivery for most items!) and huge retail/warehouse stores like Biltema.

CorvusCrypto3• 4 years ago

I am curious if your perspective comes from someone that is swedish or not. The general consensus locally is the opposite sentiment ime and ofc you can easily rent cars for the day or a small trailer for very cheap. That coupled with the fact to for example Kungens Kurva it is somewhere you can get to within an hour from within even the city center is quite nice and the bus stop is literally next to the IKEA (ofc you go to Barkarby if more north and again the station for the bus is right next to center). The delivery is interesting that you note considering we have always been able to get things delivered to our apartment though maybe it depends where you live...

mongol5• 4 years ago

Beg to disagree. You are not banned from owning a car.

CorvusCrypto3• 4 years ago

The thing that will be interesting to see as well is how they approach a market where delivery has been increasingly important over bulk availability. Thinking about prices of services like MatHem and picsmart etc and if they can shake it up

klyrs• 4 years ago

I love Costco for many of the reasons people are citing here, but I didn't have a membership until very recently because the store is a bit useless if you don't have a car and a pantry. I really wonder how well they'll do in dense European cities where those aren't the norm.

mongol5• 4 years ago

The store will be in Arninge. This is quite a bit from city center. Many of the richest neighbourhoods are nearby.

bobsmooth• 4 years ago

I think one of the things in becoming an adult is understanding the trauma of your parents. This was a nice article.

ggm• 4 years ago

Nice isn't the word I'm reaching for. Very well written, hard to deny, quite angry. The one thing it isn't is a love song.

Great writing. Good read.

jiscariot• 4 years ago

I enjoyed this piece immensely. Might be a "missing the forest for the trees" thing, but it was odd needing to scroll so far down for a comment that grok'd the theme of the article, instead of chiming in on discounted gas and Kirkland vodka.

RainaRelanah2• 4 years ago

Thank you for making me actually read it. Many years of thought definitely went into this.

ekianjo• 4 years ago

as usual most people react to the headline without reading the article :)

rglullis4• 4 years ago

I am amused by how clear it is to spot those that didn't even bother to open the link. All of them, no exceptions, could be summarized as "I am completely ignorant of what's actually being talked about and I am not really inclined to dig deeper into it. Anyway, let me interject with my worthless opinion and find a way to make this about me."

But then again, perhaps this could be a meta-commentary about how American hyper-individualism makes everyone's worldview so small that they can not see anything but themselves, and yet this somehow "works"?

skinnymuch8• 4 years ago

What’s wrong with someone coming to HN for the comments? The headline allows for commenting about that subject.

For all you or I know, this story has most of its upvotes by people who want to talk about or read comments about Costco, not the story of the article.

Pasorrijer• 4 years ago

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, while it doesn't directly affect the experience, is how well Costco treats their employees. Almost all of their policies are progressive and employee first, and that's something I'm also willing to support.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/costco-pay-benefits-glassdoor...

unixhero3• 4 years ago

Costco is amazing.

KillerRAK• 4 years ago

Costco is the best!

In addition to having a great curated product selection that one can trust, they appear to treat their employees well as they always have a great attitude and top-notch customer service.

ComputerCat• 4 years ago

Costco stresses me out! It's always so crowded, they move stock around so I can never find anything and the lines to check out are huge! BUT I do love how wide the aisles are.

hillsboroughman• 4 years ago

In the last 20 years, I did several jobs. The jobs I was happiest in were those where my boss was a loyal Costco shopper. I dont know if the two are connected.

dont__panic• 4 years ago

A lot of people I know in the tech space seem to love Costco. I've been. It's fine -- compared to a lot of other dingy, sad, depressing grocery stores, it is absolute MILES better. So I understand the fondness.

But for me, it can never compare to Wegmans. At Wegmans, the store brand is always a sensible default purchase in a category, and often the best option in a category. The employees all seem happy because Wegmans has been one of the best blue collar employers in the country for a couple of decades now. The hot bar, burger shop, and sub shop are all fantastic: relatively cheap, and often better than any fast/casual alternatives in the area. They have a great beer selection, if you live in a state that allows beer sales in grocery stores.

Caveat: if you've only ever visited the Brooklyn Wegmans, or honestly any Wegmans outside of the core central-western NY zone, you're missing out on the best qualities of Wegmans. For whatever reason, the stores they've started in new regions in the past few years just don't capture the same Wegmans spirit. The creme de la creme Platonic form Wegmans will forever be Rochester's Pittsford Plaza location. If you're ever in Rochester, it's worth the visit.

rockostrich• 4 years ago

Everything you said about Wegmans is true of Costco. Kirkland brand is usually the best option if they make it and Costco is known for their high starting wages, benefits, and treating their employees well. Their hot dog (1/4 lb all-beef) + drink deal has stayed at $1.50 for decades and is legitimately a solid lunch. Their beer selection is good (at least in NY) although I would recommend just going to a local brewery to buy beer in pretty much any state.

stuff4ben• 4 years ago

Wegmans is just another overpriced grocery store with a huge wine selection going for it. Literally here in NC I'd rather go to Harris Teeter or Whole Foods than Wegmans. Some HT's have a bar to hang out at which I occasionally do before I do my shopping. I just don't see the appeal of Wegmans except the transplant northerners who are reminiscencing.

ecopoesis• 4 years ago

Wegmans has recently come to New England. They are generally much nicer, cleaner, and organized then our big local chain, Stop & Shop.

However Wegmans has a weird inventory. Many things you could find in any New England grocery store like steak tips, salt-top rolls, or brown bread are simply missing.

It wasn't until I was perusing Wegmans' extensive cured meat department that I realized I was thinking of Wegmans the wrong way: it's not a grocery store, it's an ethnic food store, like a Super 88. But instead of being Chinese, Wegmans is a midwest ethnic food store.

seanc• 4 years ago

Somewhere I read a quote from some cranky business analyst complaining about how the low prices, quality products and high wages impact profits. "It's better to be a Costco customer or Costco employee than it is to be a Costco shareholder."

To which I responded "That sounds like a well run company!"

beachtaxidriver• 4 years ago

If you look at COST it was pretty darn good to be a shareholder too.

Somehow they made that work out where all three of them won.

iancmceachern• 4 years ago

And a company that will stand the test of time, because as Warren Buffet says, it's providing value.

sntran• 4 years ago

Couple counter points:

Appliances shipped from Costco.com are in their original packaging. They usually come with damages. I have had a couple items that I had to bring them back to the store to return.

Another thing is how they choose which items to sell at a particular warehouse. I used to visit one to buy a Sony Bravia 77" OLED and was told that the model was only sold at locations with high-income neighborhood.

Other than that, they have a way to get my money. It seems like we go there every week or so.

frakkingcylons• 4 years ago

I guess everyone else read Costco in the title and stopped. But my parents are from the same generation (also from Fuzhou, no less) and this was heartbreaking to read. Mine never explicitly mentioned going hungry, it was just implied. I also have an aunt (the eldest) who lost years of her life working on a farm in the countryside. It was forced by the state, not a decision made by her parents. She only returned home after she had a very severe case of malaria.

anyyw• 4 years ago

I’m glad that I’m not the only one who shares the distinct memory of helping my dad pack up piles of Costco joint support vitamins and chocolate for when he went back to China. This article really hit me with nostalgia.

I also remember hearing stories about the first opening of a Costco in Shanghai. Given the rest of the comments here about initial openings in new countries, it’s funny to see how much of a cultural impact the brand has.

Love Song to Costco

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