Google to buy 6.6% stake in ADT in home security push

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-adt-stake-idUSKBN24Z1A6

by 80mph • 6 years ago

243 296 6 years ago

Well there goes me buying any ADT security products

firebird842• 6 years ago

I was literally going to call them today to monitor my house's pre-existing ADT (DSC I think?) system out of practicality. Now, I'm not so sure.

Edit I wonder what modern solutions exist in this space for takeover of old systems. It feels like every alarm system installed is designed to extract your money for components for 3 years or so and then immediately become "discontinued." Most of the companies I see want me to buy a new system and lock into 3 years of monitoring. It wouldn't be so bad if the components weren't so damned expensive. $1k to fit out a small house, no smarthome nonsense even.

cproctor• 6 years ago

We just bought an old house that had been nicely taken cared for. There's an existing wired alarm system which must have taken a lot of work to install. I just installed my first server rack in the basement for network-attached storage and to run services locally, including Home Assistant [1]. I'm looking at Konnected [2], which makes an aftermarket alarm panel interface. I'd love to hear what else folks have done.

- [1] https://www.home-assistant.io/ - [2] https://konnected.io/

antoncohen3• 6 years ago

Most of the companies I see want me to buy a new system and lock into 3 years of monitoring.

That is why Comcast pushed hard into home security. Is there a significant value to home security companies, or is the whole industry a scam?

donavanm• 6 years ago

Its been a few years since I looked. But yeah.. basically all the consumer and general commercial monitoring is centralized to be handled by ADT. Hardware is all from honeywell or a few others. Companies like frontpoint etc handle customer acquisition, support, Billing, and distribution. Most of the “apps” and alarm system configuration is also reskinned ADT.

There are a couple small companies that provide more access to your own hardware. You can use their centralized system to send yourself alerts etc. Having police/fire/medical dispatch gets back them paying ADT to process those alerts. If you want to start in this direction I was happy with suretyhome.com.

Edit: regarding consumer hardware its all either zigbee or z-wave these days. A DIY system (like with surety) is generally all compatible and Id ball park more like $3-400 for hardware. If you use one of the bigger players they use custom firmware & lock down the panel/sensor management to ensure you pay them a nice markup.

throwawayp123• 6 years ago

Originally I had a local electric company take over our security system's sensors - it seems like the sensors are mostly standardized hardware where the sensors just read open or closed to some central hardware box, and the actual monitoring is handled by some third party. Might be worth investigating.It would have been a factor of ~1k more expensive to go with ADT for us.

Ring Alarm does offer a "wired alarm takeover kit" apparently: https://shop.ring.com/products/retrofit-alarm-kit

lrem• 6 years ago

And what if Google buys 5% of every player in the market? ;)

waihtis4• 6 years ago

Uhh.. start your own line of products?

stevehawk2• 6 years ago

Install your own cameras?

culturestate• 6 years ago

I get it, it makes business sense - that’s a huge install base to push smart home products to.

At the same time, I would have a hard time naming a company that I’d trust less to integrate into my home security than Google.

Privacy, (lack of) customer service, service continuity...I know these aren’t issues that would worry most consumers but they would all be on my mind.

noad• 6 years ago

I'm trying to think of any company I would trust for a camera in my house and am drawing a blank. Google is pure evil for sure, but which company is better?

It it even possible to roll your own LAN solution any more? The tech giants have become so hostile to anyone who dares to try to control their own data that I never even hear it discussed any more.

ocdtrekkie11• 6 years ago

Most IP cameras support standard methods of accessing their video feeds. A program like iSpy will work fine, you just want to also have a firewall that will block your cameras' attempts to call home and not set up any cloud access.

jdhawk• 6 years ago

Synology has a great product for running a whole fleet of self hosted cloud connected services, with decent apps, NAT Traversal, etc...

uptown• 6 years ago

It's very possible. Another alternative is to go with Apple HomeKit Secure Video products, which do send your data to the cloud, but in encrypted form which is only accessible to you.

giancarlostoro2• 6 years ago

Wyze is the only company I trust currently. You dont have to use their app you can save it all to an SD card and there are github repos for custom firmware. I currently just use their software.

joshvm• 6 years ago

You can build your own LAN system. You just need to plug a camera with a wide lens into a Pi, optionally with a PIR motion sensor. Possibly with some IR illumination for night vision.Have some code which motion triggers the camera (either in software or IR triggered) and upload the data to your own storage. That could be local on a NAS or cloud (a bucket you own).

I suggest this over an IP camera as you might as well be paranoid about those too. If you need live streaming that can be done with open source software fairly easily.

You would have to spend some time working on hardware, and it'd probably cost more, but technically it's just tedious rather than difficult. There are some projects to do this with the Pi camera already. You could even add object detection with ML quite easily, which is something you pay a lot for with other platforms.

What you miss out on is the level of embedded and mechanical integration that the commercial stuff has. Blink has a two year battery life (replaceable), the housings are IP rated etc.

Mister_Snuggles• 6 years ago

You can use Blue Iris as an NVR plus any ONVIF compliant camera. This is what I do, with the cameras on their own VLAN so they can’t phone home.

It’s entirely possible to do what you want.

criddell2• 6 years ago

I would trust Apple more than Google because I think their incentives are better aligned with serving me.

bradstewart• 6 years ago

I use Ubiquiti's Unifi cameras and NVR software. Works quite well, and is entirely LAN based.

antoncohen3• 6 years ago

Why, what makes Google untrustworthy from a home security perspective? What threat do they pose, and how is that opened up by home security products?

raesene9• 6 years ago

For me a lack of trust in Google wouldn't be security related but their committment to keeping going with the products in the long term.

Google have a reputation (rightly or wrongly) for dropping support for products quickly if they don't want them any more.

In the home security perspective installs can last decades, and changing suppliers can be expensive. that's not a good match for Google's approach.

onion2k• 6 years ago

What threat do they pose...

It's Google, so they'll probably force you to create a YouTube account to watch videos recorded by your security system, put adverts for private security services over the top, share what time you're usually out of the house with third parties, and then shut down the service after a couple of years.

sixothree3• 6 years ago

If I had to describe google in one word it would be - creepy.

Google has never made a product that did not collect data in a unique manner from its other products. Between that, the dark patterns, and this recent experience, google the company and the people that work there just give me the creeps.

From previous comment: "I uploaded a picture to google maps as part of a review. About a month later I get an actual notification on my phone - hey do you want to share this picture you took in City Park last weekend? It creeped me out beyond belief. Google had been rifling through my personal pictures in the background while I was going about my life. It was an enormous breach of my personal space and it is just one example of many related to google."

Additionally, I very much want an internet connected smoke alarm. But I would want something from a trustworthy company. And currently google does not fit that profile.

hoorayimhelping• 6 years ago

We've heard reports of google shutting off account access with no recourse because a person made the wrong youtube comments. Imagine if you got locked out of your house because an automated system misinterpreted a comment you made on a Taylor Swift video.

msy• 6 years ago

Beyond the privacy concerns I wouldn't want my front door to disable itself because my Google Account was suspended because YouTube's content-identification algorithm picked up a snippet of a song in the background of a video upload. Only to find due to automated support computer-says-no the only way to get it re-enabled was to hope my complaint about it goes viral on Twitter or makes the front page of HN.

jakemcgraw• 6 years ago

I was responsible for administrating an ADT security system for a Los Angeles-based startup (too many hats). Dealing with ADT was an absolute nightmare. Their support agents knew nothing about our configuration. ADT support technicians could take days to respond to a faulty sensor, which meant our operations folks would have to wake up at all hours of the night and check for false positives or disable the whole system. The experience led me to believe that office security systems are ripe for additional competition.

mountainb• 6 years ago

Reminds me of dealing with Terminex dispatching exterminators to spray for insects in the arctic in the middle of winter when it was -20 deg F. There are lots of these service companies that are fall somewhere between inept and crooked.

makomk• 6 years ago

At least over here in the UK, ADT seemed to have an acquisition-based near monopoly in home alarm systems and acted every bit like you'd expect, and I wouldn't be surprised if commercial alarm systems were as bad.

sradman2• 6 years ago

I focused on ADT's network of technicians rather than their install base. I guess the two are correlated but it seems that Nest thermostats and smoke detectors have always tried to straddle the line between DIY self-install and professional installers.

koolba• 6 years ago

At the same time, I would have a hard time naming a company that I’d trust less to integrate into my home security than Google.

Facebook would be worse. Imagine opening your door and having it “helpfully” post an update that you’re back home.

EForEndeavour• 6 years ago

Even worse, silently auto-posting when you leave.

tudelo• 6 years ago

As long as it updates when I'm leaving too, instant buy

awinder• 6 years ago

Google has an existing partnership with ADT for monitoring their Nest Secure product so I'm not even sure it's all about the install base. There's a lot of mutual benefits to that partnership, ADT has the existing network of people-oriented call centers and installation crew without great hardware & tech, whereas Google's tech is much better but without any of this timely & expensive infrastructure built out.

scurvy7• 6 years ago

Google's products are also expensive. The Nest smoke detectors are priced to only be viable for a studio apartment. Beyond that, you're way better off going with a traditional alarm/fire system.

Requirements are 1 in each bedroom and 1 in the hallway outside each bedroom. That adds up quickly.

stiray• 6 years ago

As far as I am aware google has already tried with the home security and they have been caught forgetting to tell customers that their device has a microphone integrated.

For home security you need to have customer trust to succeed. Google? No way. Facebook? Yeah right.

antidaily• 6 years ago

Nest (and Dropcam) has been a disaster since Google acquisition. They dont seem to give a flying fuck about the service.

adanto6840• 6 years ago

Interestingly, I have 3 Nest thermostats (3rd gen), one of which had its WiFi chip go bad this weekend. A quick live chat session with zero wait time, and they’re shipping me a replacement and a prepaid label to return the faulty device. It was even out of warranty by a few months; I was impressed, took less than 30 minutes from start to finish & zero time spent “waiting for an agent”.

rossdavidh2• 6 years ago

Microsoft. Facebook. Amazon. Wal-Mart. As others have pointed out, Equifax. Adobe. I could go on...

WrongThinkerNo52• 6 years ago

You are being pedantic and a know-it-all. You know very well what was meant by that. Just consider the comment to apply to all the the monopolistic cartel technology world dominating corporate companies. They are all part of the same world dominating corporation system that colludes in Davos and through the various other secret groups, as much as they even collude in public to conspire against us all, regardless of whether one thinks one is in their good graces by doing their will.

criddell2• 6 years ago

Google's customer service is pretty good on the hardware they sell. I've owned a Nexus 7 and various Nexus and Pixel phones and when you call them they are generally helpful.

GSuite is also fairly well supported.

jorblumesea• 6 years ago

Also, ADT which has fairly scummy sales tactics and isn't very technologically advanced compared to other competitors and is very old school. Hard to imagine two companies farther apart.

reaperducer3• 6 years ago

Wow. Good point about customer service. I forgot about that.

I can't think of a faster or more effective way for Google to destroy the public's trust in it than to inflict its customer service practices on the masses.

twblalock• 6 years ago

I trust ADT less. ADT is the Comcast of security systems. Google might at least improve their technology.

afterburner2• 6 years ago

Uh, I think the trust here is about privacy, not securing your home.

afterburner2• 6 years ago

At the same time, I would have a hard time naming a company that I’d trust less to integrate into my home security than Google.

Definitely Facebook. But I still wouldn't trust Google.

xen2xen1• 6 years ago

Ring ring. Seriously, who doesn't think this is because of the popularity of the Ring ecosystem?

smashah• 6 years ago

Neutral news. I just hope this results in new products launching quickly. The nest Yale partnership is disappointing to say the least. Despite the naysayers, this can be a successful step in the right direction for nest as an ecosystem

nojito• 6 years ago

Home Security Systems are largely marketing gimmicks.

I wonder if any of Google's large "diversification" pushes have yielded success?

athenot• 6 years ago

I'm on a "low Google diet" myself as I'm not at all a fan of how my data gets scooped up and resold.

That being said, while I disagree with their business practices, I think their information security is one of the best. For contrast, imagine Equifax running your home security... :)

waihtis4• 6 years ago

Its not an infosec problem, but a privacy problem

antoncohen3• 6 years ago

In what way? What privacy breach are you worried about?

For example are you worried that a real human at your home security company will be invading your privacy? When they do are you worried that real human will take personal action against you? Or are you worried about automated systems building knowledge about your life based on home security data? Or are you worried about your home security data used in aggregate? Maybe you are worried about attackers getting access?

Internal infosec and privacy controls/policies are required to protect you from some of these. Some of these threats may be more likely from Google, but I'd say some of them are more likely from other home security providers (keep in mind that a lot of home security products are actually intended to have another human monitoring your home).

kamarg• 6 years ago

I'd think it's both in the age of the smart thermostat that has a camera/mic built in.

stevehawk2• 6 years ago

And every 2 years you can count on them cutting support for whatever devices you bought from them because they got bored and moved on to something else.

lstamour6• 6 years ago

In their defense, OnHub routers launched late 2015 and was discontinued/rebranded Google Wifi in late 2016, but they did end up supporting the older models for approx. 4 years of updates, including phone support. That was a product that made me trust Google just as Apple was getting out of the router business. Google Home, Nest and Dropcam have all had older products remain supported, so far.

SquareWheel• 6 years ago

my data gets scooped up and resold

Just to let you know, data is not resold by Google. It's used for interest-based advertising.

sukilot11• 6 years ago

Potato, tomato.

asciident• 6 years ago

You know who actually sells your data? The senators and congressmen who are constantly going on about how Google and Facebook are selling your data. I've donated a small amount to many campaigns, and I always use a different email address for each one since I own my own domain with a catch-all.

A few months or a year later, I get emails from groups like "stop republicans" or from local campaigns in states I don't care about to elizabethwarren@[mydomain.com]. And I only have used that email once to donate to Elizabeth. And it's not just one politician, it's all of them. Even ones we feel are so idealistic, like my Andrew Yang donation that I did based on his Reddit plea now receives emails targeted to my demographic about how it's my fault the democrats will fail to stop Trump, or lose California, or whatever.

Financial companies also sell my data. I get phishing emails to turbotax2014@[mydomain.com] which is what I used to file that year's taxes. [Edit: in retrospect, this one is probably just a hack or incompetence rather than intentional selling]

And which emails have never been sold or given out? The ones I use for Google or Facebook. Never in the past 15 years.

rurp2• 6 years ago

This is a really good point; I have had the same experience. The fact that every political campaign is happy to sell my personal information to other groups has completely turned me off from donating.

The same applies to volunteering. I made the mistake of giving my real phone number to a congressional campaign that I signed up to volunteer with. Since then I've gotten dozens of spam texts from many different organizations.

ed25519FUUU• 6 years ago

I'm on a "low Google diet" myself as I'm not at all a fan of how my data gets scooped up and resold.

Does google ever actually resell data? Or just monetize it? There’s a big difference selling the personal information on someone versus letting people buy targeted ads.

kortilla2• 6 years ago

Depending on the level of targeting allowed the difference is meaningless. If you can target people based on something like sexual preference, you’ve effectively sold out everyone that clicks on that link.

abstractbarista2• 6 years ago

Seems like a bad idea to me. But I'm someone who would never use or recommend ADT in the first place. People don't seem to realize... You can run your own serious alarm system (DSC is a great brand) and then self-monitor with devices like the Envisalink. This integrates with Home Assistant too. All the awesome functionality for $0/mo.

waihtis4• 6 years ago

You could build a lot of things yourself, but there is a limited scope of things people have the time and skills to build

ocdtrekkie11• 6 years ago

If you want support/service/monitoring by someone not you, security companies do have a purpose. Depends on your situation though.

MichaelApproved2• 6 years ago

And will home owners insurance give you the "security system discount" if it's not a professionally monitored system?

marcinzm3• 6 years ago

All the awesome functionality for $0/mo.

Except the time it took you to research, install, validate it's running, and do general upkeep. Also doesn't help you if you're on vacation with limited internet service.

pc863• 6 years ago

And most importantly, the fact that you have to respond even with your own monitoring. That's most of what you pay ADT for. If they get a ping, they call you. If they can't get in touch with you, they dispatch the relevant people.

Yes you can set this up yourself (and spend a lot more on the hardware, which they generally give to you pretty cheaply or even "free" because you're signing a contract) but when you go hiking in the mountains and someone uses your Facebook posts as a cue that you're out of town, you're SOL.

Don't get me wrong I love looking at all the home security stuff you can do, and it does indeed sound like a neat project. But you're really paying these companies for monitoring and automatic (human) response, not the security systems themselves.

abstractbarista2• 6 years ago

Of course, a very good point. For me it's a hobby which I enjoy.

In an area without Internet service, for me, it is common to miss calls as well. Plus, from personal experience, the security company will not notify law enforcement until they have called you to confirm it is not a false-positive alarm.

In my case, before the alarm goes off due to a forced entry, I will have automatically received notifications with snapshots of people around my property. Even if the security company had called immediately, a response would take >10 minutes. So I just self-monitor.

Overall, with home security you basically just want to be a more annoying, harder target than your closest neighbors. It's sad but true.

bluedays• 6 years ago

Contrast that with all of the labor required to pay for the security system and it seems that you still come out ahead

giancarlostoro2• 6 years ago

On the other hand Wyze has most of the things security systems need available. They hinted towards much more affordable home security services. I rather just wait till their options available. All of the things you mention are kind of useless when you go on vacatiom out of the country or you are somewhere rural.

sukilot11• 6 years ago

Since you enjoy it, you could set up a little did business helping people set it up.

Call yourself BEU Security.

scurvy7• 6 years ago

That's basically the premise behind Surety. Except Surety systems are centrally monitored after the DIY install and have tons of customization options.

scurvy7• 6 years ago

Or setup your own system and monitor through alarm.com. That's who ADT uses for their Blue system. Yes, ADT uses alarm.com for their newest system.

shitlord• 6 years ago

I wonder what happens to Alarm.com. Do they get bought out by a competitor (possibly Apple), or will their revenue slowly dry up? The ALRM stock price dropped sharply right as this was announced.

Alarm.com has built some of their own hardware, but their operation is obviously much smaller than Nest. Can they still compete?

sradman2• 6 years ago

Google's blog post A partnership with ADT for smarter home security [1]

[1] https://blog.google/products/google-nest/partnership-adt-sma...

MattGaiser• 6 years ago

I am fascinated at the anti-Google attitude here.

Why exactly do you think some other home security company would not also use your data? Except they will secure it poorly with a default password.

AlexandrB• 6 years ago

Sounds like you're advocating for robust consumer rights legislation on data collection.

buttersbrian2• 6 years ago

Fear. Fear of yet another vector that Google could use to connect the dots of their life.

Belief that Google's business model is incompatible with security/privacy.

Unfair criticism that Google will just shut down any service/offering once they get bored --- it doesn't happen to pay services.

ctvo• 6 years ago

The position that a less sophisticated company with less integration into the rest of your live would be able to connect fewer lines with only access to your home security data doesn't seem that outlandish.

The claim that ADT or another large, established home security company is less capable of securing your data than Google requires evidence.

I don't want a company that makes its money selling information to advertisers to have such full access to my life.

mrcarruthers• 6 years ago

I can tell you that Google does not sell your information to anyone. They horde all of their data so that they can sell advertisements targeting groups of people (scarily accurate groups) but they won't sell data on individuals as that impacts their competitive advantage.

robbyt• 6 years ago

Based on the time of day of the posts, I'm guessing the majority of the anti-google sentiment is coming from Europeans. They are generally distrustful of large American corporations.

elliekelly• 6 years ago

There are plenty of Americans who distrust Google and large American corporations, too. I don’t trust any entity that exists for the purpose of vacuuming up as much of my data of possible.

vorpalhex• 6 years ago

"Everyone else is doing it too! So you can't be upset at us for doing it!"

That's terrible reasoning. Even if literally every company is doing it, we can still be upset that Google is doing it. Google has gone out of their way to collect broad amounts of my data in a way that ADT and other companies haven't - from an ongoing list of where I am and where I shop to what I search for on Chrome.

justapassenger2• 6 years ago

Yes, they did that. But it’s done in a way that gives you value as a customer.

You can argue about fair split of added value between company and user, but it’s not like users get nothing.

With nest cameras for example, what I personally get is really good AI to recognize people. I’m ok with that value exchange.

ocdtrekkie11• 6 years ago

Fundamentally, the reason I'd rather anyone but Google have my private data is Google's ability to use it effectively. Many companies can vacuum up data, few are prepared to do anything intelligent with it. Not only does Google have far more data, it's able to use it. That makes them way scarier than ADT.

sumtechguy2• 6 years ago

I used to work on systems like this. The thing is there is a lot of data. But no effective or even interesting ways to use that data.

My guess they want to get into the 'home automation' bits. Which is a huge money sink and really not that interesting. They also need to be willing to do something more than on a 2-3 year time frame. I have things in my house that are 25+ years old. I zero plans on replacing them. My parents have a house that is 80 years old. They also have zero plans on replacing things. For the embedded market which is where ADT sits they need to be thinking 10-15 year time frames. They also need to think in the 'fail usable' state. If my internet goes out and I can not get my garage door open I am not happy and that thing will be on the way to the garbage bin. They also probably want in on that monthly recurring lease on equipment you do not really own.

cromwellian4• 6 years ago

Really? because there are many examples of smaller less sophisticated companies getting owned by hackers. ADT might not do anything with your data, but hackers have lots of uses for it.

So in your world, Google being able to sell target ads is more dangerous to you, then hackers getting access to your security cams or baby monitors, or stealing your personal dox and reselling them on darknet markets for bitcoin?

There are millions of people who have been harmed by identity theft from databases going around of people's personal info that have been hacked from less secure companies.

There was have been cheap IP cams that have had backdoors that were exploited, unbelievably, to build a search engine for readily available for pedophiles (https://ipvm.com/reports/the-search-engine-for-hacking-ip-ca...)

You have millions of people scammed by Indian call center scammers by taking advantage of terrible Windows security.

You have tons of scammers buying people's personal financial information from existing databases that are traded.

These are all real, palpable harm, where people have gone bankrupt, spent years cleaning up identity theft, had their children's room monitored by pedophiles and pranksters, etc

fermienrico• 6 years ago

Why would an advertising firm want to get into home security?

Their diversification is dubious, hence the push back.

gigatexal• 6 years ago

I like Google. The search engine is amazing. BigQuery is awesome — it’s really something only a Google could pull off — but, but, I think this might be DOA for the same reasons that make Google search and ads so good: the data. I don’t want Google in my home like this with a view of everything coming in and going out (yes yes they can already see the amazon orders in my gmail account, but still) or who is coming or going.

TheSoftwareGuy• 6 years ago

Interesting. 6.6% seems like a pretty insignificant investment. Does anybody have any idea what 6.6% could really get them?

JimRyan• 6 years ago

Private information about the operation of the company which they can use themselves to compete with them. I'd certainly be very worried.

vdfs• 6 years ago

Then shutdown their competing offering in 2-3 years once it's mature and have a user base

DesiLurker2• 6 years ago

yes but how many times you think it will make a headline when google slowly increases stake in adt while simultaneously pumping in preferred deals for relevant data. I fully expect nest to have deep integration into adt going forward.

batt4good• 6 years ago

Potentially a questionable investment with the police being abolished?

cpwright2• 6 years ago

Lots of the comments don't trust Google, but I'm not sure I would trust ADT. I was looking to buy a house, which had an ADT system installed. I just called them up, asked about the address, how much monitoring would cost, etc. and they told me what kind of panel, sensors, etc. were installed at the house. No verification at all. Clearly this would help with their sales, but from the perspective of someone who owns the system; I would not want them to give out details of my security system to anyone.

selykg6• 6 years ago

These types of home security systems are more a deterrent than they are anything else. In fact, the ONLY reason I think I'd personally invest in would be automated alerts for fire or emergency situations.

If someone wants into your house, they will get into your house. There's giant glass windows in most homes these days and door locks are hardly much more than a speed bump.

All you should look at ADT for is simply making you not the easiest house to get into. But if someone wants into your house, a security system is unlikely to be something that stops them.

Edit: to be more clear, I think the deterrent part is the equivalent of putting an ADT sign in a window or nearby. THAT is the deterrent, not the system itself.

pc863• 6 years ago

This is true and is actually one of the ways they sell the system.

About five days after we bought our home the ADT salesman came to the door and after seeing that we were on the fence used this as another argument. Like you, I really only wanted it for the fire detection, and the fact that the panel has an emergency button and is located in the back but with clear line of sight to the front door.

We did have one break in during the 8 years we lived there, but the German Shepard was what stopped them, not the alarm sign in the yard.

MichaelApproved2• 6 years ago

If someone wants into your house, they will get into your house.

Is ADT saying it prevents people from being able to break in?

Home security is about alerting police, in case someone does break in, so they don't have time to get many valuables.

Newer systems include video, to help convict them.

It's not about "you can't get it", it's about "you're more likely to get caught, so don't even try it."

Shivetya• 6 years ago

mine exists solely for my pets in case of fire or other emergency, everything else is covered by insurance.

ADT used to have a clause in their contracts you could only cancel during a narrow window near renewal, is that still an issue? They are pretty costly per month compared to some other providers, this even if you own your equipment

snarfy• 6 years ago

It's peace of mind.

I know 100% if someone wants into a house, they will get into the house. I know that when people put 'this property protected by Smith & Wesson' signs on their house, it only informs burglars there are guns to be stolen. I always joked I don't want ADT, just the sign.

But now that I actually have an alarm system, it's great. If I leave for the weekend, I know nobody has broken in. It won't stop them, but I at least know.

joncrane• 6 years ago

When I bought my first and current house, the home inspector gave me some amazing advice.

The relevant advice here was "I'm not telling you to do this, but you can buy home alarm system stickers on eBay and thieves literally cannot know whether you actually have the system installed or not."

hankthecat• 6 years ago

agreed the sticker is a big part of it. Although I will say a super loud alarm going off will probably scare way some people and the police do eventually show up if you have monitoring. If I am away from the house for weeks on end that is nice to have.

xenocyon2• 6 years ago

My neighborhood gets a lot of break-ins, and I've tried to understand whether there is a causal link showing that electronic home security lowers break-in risk. The deterrent effect makes intuitive sense, but it's surprisingly hard to find empirical evidence for (even recognizing that it's not the kind of thing you can run an A/B test for). Additionally the internet is so awash in marketing (there's almost never an incentive to tell someone not to buy something) that it's very hard to ascertain the facts, and consumers' behavior in these matters tends to be guided more by perception than true solutions.

I had a similar experience when considering a water filter. In that situation, I was able to actually figure out a sensible path, thanks to a very few unbiased websites: test your water or read your locality's water reports to figure out what your drinking water contaminants actually are, then figure out specifically which filter (if any) will address those specific contaminants. Meanwhile, plenty of people will buy a mass-market water filter for "peace of mind" which may actually be neither necessary nor sufficient.

fnbr• 6 years ago

Also, you typically save a few hundred bucks on your insurance by having monitored alarms, so it pays for itself.

nogabebop232• 6 years ago

My house was broken into with the high tech method of a rock through the sidelight window, right on top of the ADT sticker; so much for that theory. This occurred @ 10am on a weekday when we were out for less than an hour too.

We added (real!) cameras after this and for the next 2 years freaked out every time an alert hit our phones. Now there are so many false positives that it's conditioned us to be less uptight.

My sister has a monitored alarm where I'm a secondary contact. On a recent alarm they phoned my to ask if I wanted them to call the cops. As I'm (at least) second in line this had to take at least 15 minutes since the alarm, plus the police response time (tip: minor property crime is not a priority for police). The burglars were long gone by the time anyone got there.

So my point is it's largely security theatre, like airport security. It makes you feel better I guess but does nothing.

m-p-32• 6 years ago

Exactly why I have a security system right now. It's not souch for the theft deterrent than for the connected fire alarm now that I have two kids.

scarface74• 6 years ago

It’s not just a deterrent. It also serves as a warning. If I am in the house, I want to know someone is breaking in. I have a lot of mixed feelings about gun laws, but I am definitely an advocate for anyone being able to have a gun in their home to protect themselves - even though I don’t own one.

I would also like to know if someone broke in my home if I am not there.

Yes, I am well aware of the statistics about gun ownership in the home, suicides, accidental shootings, etc.

pc863• 6 years ago

I'm not sure a run-of-the-mill burglar would be able to do anything with panel information. Any burglar sophisticated enough to alter their plans based on type of security panel is going to be going after diamonds and art, not a smash and grab for a used television.

Releasing sensor data at all seems like a pretty big flaw, though. Lack of window sensors and number or existence of motion detectors seems like a dataset you wouldn't want getting out without some sort of ID verification (or at all).

cpwright2• 6 years ago

It would have been a second home, so centralized fire monitoring and flood sensors would have potentially been useful for us. Things like the panel being hardwired instead of cellular, etc. shouldn't be given out over the phone.

sukilot11• 6 years ago

And it's cheaper to buy a new TV once in a decade than pay for a security system.

hedora2• 6 years ago

Giving out system information over the phone without verification protects ADT from the “fake ADT sign” problem, or from people under buying systems.

I doubt they’re actually that cynical though.

pnathan3• 6 years ago

ADT is super old school tech in the interface. High pressure sales techniques, long term contract.

I bailed out of that real fast and ordered the Google Nest system instead.

JoshGlazebrook2• 6 years ago

+1 to this. I didn't do enough research and ended up in a 3 year ADT contact with their extremely dated equipment back in 2016. Eventually I just stopped using their equipment all together and removed all of the sensors and switched to Google Nest products. Terminating the contract required paying off 75% of the remaining amount so I ended up just paying monthly on a service I never used because of how pedatory the contract was.

dpeck• 6 years ago

They’re somewhat useful for monitoring. I don’t expect that they’re much of an actual deterrent and ymmv on if they’re worth the price.

But don’t discount the value in monitoring something that you can’t fully control. By the time someone greats into my house they’ll be long gone with anything of value when the police arrive (if they ever do), but having something alert me and the local Fire Department in case of smoke is useful. Same with leak detection and flooded basements, or break-ins. These are things I’d much rather know when they happen so that I can remediate, gather pets that may be wandering the neighborhood after door kicked in, etc during the day than after getting home from a long day at work (not issue in Covid-19 times). Even worse to come home to find a problem when getting back from business trip or family vacation.

1vuio0pswjnm7• 6 years ago

The goal is data collection.

ADT is probably not going to get Google's data. They are limited in what they know about their customers. How much data does ADT have in comparison to Google?

Google OTOH is going to get access to about 6.5 million ADT customers. Needless to say, Google already has acquired a lot of data on a lot of people, including those ADT customers.

If what ADT knows is now known by Google, then it is not just the details of a security system that might be disclosed by one entity, but the details of the people inside the building.

The risk (i.e., the potential damage) of undesired disclosure is greater when one entity has access to "all" data versus when the data is spread amongst multiple entities.

jvm___• 6 years ago

Telus in Canada bought ADT Canada to add to their line of home security and home health monitoring.

sanguy• 6 years ago

Will they tank this like Nest and the prior home HW vendors.

Google is a data mining company. Nothing more, noting less. We are the product. You are stupid to allow them into your home.

huphtur• 6 years ago

For those "loving" the ADT home security commercials, check out the story of "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" by Eiffel 65 https://youtu.be/epnsRRPtoeU

diogenescynic• 6 years ago

Google is an awful service provider. Ever had a Gmail account get hijacked? Good luck getting it back. Google doesn't give a crap about helping its "customers" because its products are free so they have this awful take it or leave it attitude. You can't rely on that. They did the same thing to Nest. They'd change your thermostat and shut things down, potentially at your home's risk. Just a really careless and inconsiderate company who I avoid doing business with.

kbos87• 6 years ago

ADT’s pricing and go-to-market approach is draconian in 2020. Long term contracts, expensive equipment, and high pressure sales tactics couldn’t be any different than my experience with a Nest home security system. Will be interesting to see if and how ADT evolves because of the ownership stake.

ec1096852• 6 years ago

I agree. They want a two year commitment and $55 a month, plus $1000 for the installation. That is absurd for what their monitoring service entails.

kps2• 6 years ago

Hmm, so an ADT sticker will discourage burglars but encourage conmen?

carterklein13• 6 years ago

One of my biggest worries with this is that it will shut ADT off to all future integrations outside of the Google ecosystem.

I believe that if ADT wants to stay competitive, they would hugely benefit from a swath of integrations with different vendors doing different things to allow for a modular home security experience.

I'm not sure that partnering with Google really accomplishes that... at least not on its own.

annoyingnoob• 6 years ago

Pushing spy tools into more places, yuck.

tclancy• 6 years ago

Be a hell of a thing to discover they shut the division down two years later just as someone comes through the window.

kyrra3• 6 years ago

(Googler, opinions are my own)

I wonder what this says for the Google/Nest Security product future. The existing Nest Secure[0] is a well designed product, but also rather limiting (only one base unit, which is frustrating for houses with multiple entrances, or large houses). The Nest Secure was released ~3 years ago, and there have been some minor feature improvements, but no hardware additions or changes.

[0] https://store.google.com/us/product/nest_secure_alarm_system

ec1096852• 6 years ago

It seems like Ring is innovating more in this area and their monthly monitoring fee is only $10, and hardware cheaper.

Secure was pretty easy to setup, so would be unfortunate if they cancelled and seeded DIY to Ring.

tomschlick• 6 years ago

Everything google does on the home side just seems like pet projects that they abandon 2 years later as they consolidate and change names once again. Meanwhile, Amazon/Ring is killing it coming out with more models, sizes, colors, features, etc.

tmpz22• 6 years ago

I intentionally avoided Nest products like the plague when replacing my parents smoke alarms due to many stories like this [1][2]. Poor leadership and smart home devices do not a good marriage make.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11832828

[2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nest-camera-hacked-hacker-spoke...

kyrra3• 6 years ago

(googler, opinions are my own)

I honestly like bradfitz's youtube video the best to show the Nest Protect (the smoke alarm) issues[0]. They have since fixed these issues, as this was the gen one protect.

For your #2 (no insider knowledge), that looks like people's accounts getting hacked and then the hackers talking through them. All home camera cloud based cameras have had these cases. I think Nest moving to Google account login system for Nest is probably the best protection against this kind of thing happening. Account takeovers happen, and guarding against them at scale is hard (especially when people reuse passwords).

For #1, I think the culture has changed a lot as it's been absorbed into Google's hardware division. Hopefully it's better, but I couldn't say anything of value there.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY (warning, loud video)

jfim• 6 years ago

The Nest Secure has been pretty flaky from my own experience. I agree with you that the hardware design is good, but the software is pretty terrible.

For example, many times on the Nest app I'll try to deactivate the alarm (when coming back home) but it'll give an error saying that it couldn't connect to the alarm, try again later. Yet as soon as I open the door, magically the app knows the door is open and the alarm will sound in n seconds, so clearly there's connectivity of some kind.

Furthermore, it seems that some of the requests to change the state of the alarm (disabled, armed) seem to get queued somehow, since sometimes it'll give an error when disabling the alarm through the app, then I'll go in, disable the alarm, reenable it, and a few minutes later it'll disable it as if the app message got processed later. That's pretty much the worst case scenario; not only does it not respond immediately, but it also leaves the system in a state that's not intended by the user.

It's maddening enough that I'm not buying any more Nest products. They're well designed, but it seems that nobody cares about the software past the out of box experience.

pnathan3• 6 years ago

Nest Secure owner here. I like the system a lot, ya'll need to invest a bigger team in maintenance. not a new product or a rewrite.

Some buggieness.

The single base unit worked well enough for me when I had a 3-entrance house.

kyrra3• 6 years ago

Sorry, I should have clarified my point a bit on multiple entrances. I have my keypad near one door, but the other doors are on the opposite side of the house. So my kids may open another door and start the alarm countdown going, won't get there in-time to turn it off all the time. I'd like to be able to have 2 keypads.

As well, there is the siren problem. The siren is not loud enough to be heard in all corners of my house well. I'd like to be able to have a siren in my bedroom so if it does go off in the middle of the night, it would be very clear to me.

sf_rob• 6 years ago

Hopefully this is a small enough partnership/stake to not torpedo the Samsung Smartthings / ADT partnership. I'm not a user of the latter, but appreciate the growing ecosystem.

hedora2• 6 years ago

The article says they will exclusively support Nest products moving forward.

If so, Google paid a shockingly low percentage to exclude their major competitors.

exabrial• 6 years ago

Remember: Google doesn't think they're invading your privacy when they are making money on it. It's only a violation of privacy if their competition is making money on your privacy.

jhallenworld• 6 years ago

One thing missing in this area is a low cost combined alarm and home automation. Some have nice home automation (Smart Things, for example), others have a nice alarm system (Ring). But nobody has a good combination of both together. At least part of the problem is that the alarm system does not want to trust third party devices for triggering the alarm. This means that they are treated as second class citizens.

So an example of this is that I have water monitors and a water main shutoff valve that works with Smart Things. But Smart Things doesn't have an alarm, and Ring doesn't support the water monitor and shutoff valve..

Not sure I'm happy with ADT, since they are expensive (per month monitoring). But they do have name brand recognition.

cloudking• 6 years ago

Check out Home Assistant, it can pull off the automations you describe. You can run it on a Raspberry Pi 4 https://www.home-assistant.io/

dmode• 6 years ago

ADT is a near scam home security company who force you into signing aggressive 3 yr contracts

dikaio• 6 years ago

Unfortunately ADT is the worst security company out there or in the US for that matter. Garbage.

C19is20• 6 years ago

I'm in Europe. Interested in your comment. Got a source, or any further info?

justicezyx• 6 years ago

If Google pursued github and tiktok like msft I'll be more optimistic. ADT? Not sure what they wanted here...

sjbrown• 6 years ago

"Home" security? ADT has cameras, door sensors, medical alerting "pendandts" etc. installed in many more places than private homes. This deal seems more about sensors and new streams of incoming data for Google.

heimatau• 6 years ago

Wow. Crazy. Google is starting to leverage their position. They now selling 12.8x this buy in corporate bonds. I think this is the beginning of many plays by Google/Alphabet.

[1] https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1290338641919856640

gabagool• 6 years ago

What does this mean?

I clicked on your link. I'm also not sure what "SELL $5.75 BILLION OF ESG BONDS IN CORPORATE RECORD" means?

texasbigdata• 6 years ago

Probably the implication is that with really cheap funding (bonds) they can swash buckle across corporate america and buy stuff? It's most likely a coincidence. Google had $120B of cash on its balance sheet at 12/31/19.

kissickas• 6 years ago

Alphabet is selling some record amount of corporate bonds, which OP states they're using to finance this purchase (and that they raised 12.8 times this amount so there's plenty left to make more acquisitions).

More detail on Alphabet's bond sale: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/al...

DesiLurker2• 6 years ago

Well great, if the thief carries a android phone for the first time in history of mankind google would be able to run machine learning algos to predict where the crime is going to be committed. /s

personally I would be more worried about ADT getting google data. plus ADT has tie-ins with many police depts. this could go south really fast from here. Also, google already has fitbit data so google is slowly spreading its tentacles into our life in real world much more so than FB.

honestly I feel like I need to minimize my google usage right-bloody-now. a slightly better web search is not worth all that shit it comes with.

justaguy88• 6 years ago

This makes me uncomfortable

jedberg• 6 years ago

There was an article where they interviewed a bunch of burglars and asked them the best way to secure your house. First they listed off all the things that don't work, like alarms and cameras. Then they said:

- Number one, have a TV on. If they see a TV on they assume people are home and watching.

- Get a big dog. If they have to choose between a house with a dog and one without, they'll chose the one without.

- Get motion activated security lights. Always-on lights just provide extra light for breaking in, the motion sensors draw attention (although most robberies happen during the day so it's sort of a moot point).

Upvoter33• 6 years ago

Someone needs to put these things together: motion activated dog barking plus auto-turning your TV on. HNer's, get to work!

ncr100• 6 years ago

motion activated dog barking plus auto-turning your TV on

Call it "Release the Hounds".

smaili• 6 years ago

Playing devil's advocate but assuming they're being truthful what's in it for them to expose the very strategies they use?

Pfhreak2• 6 years ago

I would assume so. Pride and bragging about how easy something is would lead a lot of folks to just straight up tell you how they've outsmarted security gear.

Humans will always be humans, and humans LOVE to tell you how they've beat the system.

onetimemanytime• 6 years ago

opportunistic thieves, and these are common sense things. They are looking for lower hanging fruit.

Now if you have a Picasso or $5 million in diamonds at home, they will find a way to enter, but for a iPhone they'll go to your neighbor that doesn't have a TV on, or motion sensor lights.

otoburb• 6 years ago

>[...] although most robberies happen during the day so it's sort of a moot point

I wasn't aware of this. I wonder if this means robberies have gone down as a result of more people forced to stay home due to Covid.

MiroF2• 6 years ago

Yes, robberies are down significantly.

pseingatl• 6 years ago

Get a fumigation sign. The skull and crossbones and threat of death by toxic asphyxiation will keep all but the most determined burglar away.Few burglars go out on a job with respirators. Add a bit about asbestos being found "on site." An ADT sign is nothing but an "all clear." The police won't help, they're too busy selling drugs, forfeiting automobiles and investigating possible misdemeanor counterfeit bill passing cases.

jdeibele2• 6 years ago

I had bought a new Nest thermostat and was going to install it at about the time that Google went from having different things Nest-integrated to having them be Google-integrated. I chose to sell my thermostat to somebody and buy an Ecobee specifically because Ecobee wasn't owned by Google or Amazon.

So far Amazon seems like its treating its acquisitions better as far as customers are concerned. Ecobee does make a model with Alexa built-in but I got an older one that doesn't have that.

I am really tempted to buy some Eufy 2K cameras, which I hear are decent quality and integrate with Homekit. Apple has tougher security requirements than Google or Amazon and the products that meet it seem better, even if more expensive.

DevKoala• 6 years ago

ADT came pre-installed in my house. I deactivated it, and want to remove it fully, but I haven’t gotten around it.

rednerrus• 6 years ago

If you're planning on doing away with public police, private home security is going to be BIG business.

gnicholas• 6 years ago

Huh, looks like Google used to offer a cellular-based backup option, but cut it off a few months ago. Some folks were upset that the only way to get that now is to pay Brinks ($29/mo or $20/mo with 3-yr contract).

I assume the Brinks deal will be phased out and ADT will replace it? Given what people are saying about ADT's pricing, hopefully their offer will be no more expensive than Brinks'.

throwaway6000• 6 years ago

one of Google's best idea.

Danieru• 6 years ago

ADT and other American security is broken. They are missing the hard part of an active security system: response.

In Japan there is a company called Secom. This company has a near monopoly on security systems. They have this monopoly because instead of just calling the cops they have staff on patrol who respond to alarms. You can imagine the install base moat required to have active personal patroling constantly.

The end result is alarms get checked. Every time we mis-unlocked our office a Secom person would stop by soon after to check. No idle phone calls from a phone center, the staff checked the premise themselves.

Of course similar services must exist in the states for businesses, but without the install base they cannot be priced reasonable for home use. Secom is used everywhere, from uppper class homes to museums.

Narkov• 6 years ago

Very interesting. Can I ask what you pay for that service? Their website geo-redirects me to a local site so I can't check for myself.

noelsusman• 6 years ago

A ton of companies in the US offer this, including ADT. https://www.adt.com/patrol

marc__1• 6 years ago

I haven't seen anyone posting, but on the ADT investors relations website there is a presentation [1] and [2] webcast outlying the M&A rationale.

Briefly speaking, it is to be expected product integration (starting with Google Cloud for ADT video) and in the future some 'automation' and newer products.

By the way, can there be any 'synergies' between ADT and Fitbit?

[1] https://s22.q4cdn.com/631128414/files/doc_presentations/2020...

[2] https://investor.adt.com/events-and-presentations/events-cal...

Google to buy 6.6% stake in ADT in home security push

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