Amazon’s share of the US e-commerce market is now 49%

https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/13/amazons-share-of-the-us-e-commerce-market-is-now-49-or-5-of-all-retail-spend/

by base • 8 years ago

337 287 8 years ago

Karunamon• 8 years ago

How does this degree of influence factor in with their decisions to drop competitor's proucts? (ex. the Chromecast spat with Google)

verelo• 8 years ago

Good. Today i called Amazon to complain something i ordered never arrived. No questions asked refunded. Needed it urgently so went to a brick and mortar store down the road to buy it. 3x the price, and they took 15 minutes to process my sale. If anyone wants to match the amazon experience anywhere else in my life, take my money!

dmm• 8 years ago

Hopefully you don't buy anything that goes on or in your body from Amazon.

Fake Dove Soap: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17217290

Fake Diapers: https://jenniferlabit.com/2016/07/21/counterfeit-baby-produc...

Fake Eclipse Glasses: Tons of stories

Amazon has a bad counterfeit problem. The way they co-mingle stock is crazy. You can't even trust reviews because the review might be describing a completely different product.

EDIT: Counterfeit books! http://davidgaughran.com/2017/06/03/amazon-has-a-fake-book-p...

matte_black• 8 years ago

Doesn’t happen enough to stop using Amazon. Sorry.

philg_jr• 8 years ago

If I could get back every block of 15 minutes I've spent on Amazon scrolling through the endless amount of options in order to avoid buying some crappy Chinese knock-off version, I'd be happy.

ma2rten2• 8 years ago

I don't think I ever got a counterfeit item on Amazon. The fact that there are news stories about specific counterfeit items (and not the problem in general), indicates to me that it's not as widespread.

inanutshellus• 8 years ago

And don't forget resellers stealthily jacking up the price of commodities.

I used to buy indiscriminately from Amazon. If Amazon had it, it was the best price. Why bother shopping around?

I've been bitten multiple times now with ordering something only to realize some reseller has jacked up the price and I didn't notice.

(e.g. buy baby wipes for $10, later re-order same baby wipes and think "hm, $18.50 seems higher than I remembered. Oh well, I need baby wipes!")

So now I shop around for everything. Since Amazon is "forcing me" to shop around, I've started to exclude them out of spite.

I get it, it's capitalism. If some Amazon reseller (including the "fulfilled by Amazon!" resellers) dupes me, I'm the sucker. Amazon's not to blame for capitalism. But... I still blame them. :)

paulcole2• 8 years ago

I get my diabetes supplies through Amazon– generic glucose test strips and pen needles I use for insulin. The price is a fraction of what they cost at the pharmacy (even with insurance).

I have no problem recommending them to anyone. Quality is acceptable and more importantly it's the only option at a price point I'm willing to pay.

Edit: Thanks to whoever downvoted this.

rhacker• 8 years ago

Do any independent websites sell counterfeit? If so, then we're just comparing isolated cases on a large ecommerce site with what?

DoubleGlazing• 8 years ago

A friend of ours gave us a painting of Cú Chulain for our wedding. That painting was her specialty that went through many prototypes. She put prints of it on Amazon and within a few weeks hand made copies were being sold from far eastern sellers. She spent two year battling to get those sales taken down. In the end it only stopped because the sellers moved onto other pictures and not because Amazon took any action.

dv_dt• 8 years ago

So has the dept of commerce, or homeland security, or whoever is responsible in gov't for suppressing counterfeit goods ever raided an Amazon warehouse? Does there need to be complaint by the manufacturer first?

unclebucknasty• 8 years ago

Or razor blades. Bought some Gillette Fusion 5 blades on Amazon a few years ago for a good price.

Didn't take long to realize that no way were they the real thing. First shave was horrible and it was downhill fast from there.

kolpa2• 8 years ago

Amazon is better than brick and mortar because Amazon fails to deliver after a week, but a brick and mortar store fulfilled in 15 minutes?

twinkletwinkle• 8 years ago

15 minutes of synchronous time waiting at the store versus 1 week of asynchronous time while you live your life though.

jpao795• 8 years ago

And on top of that, what happens when the bricks and mortar store goes out of business and you have nowhere to go when Amazon is not sending it to you and "need it urgently".

Sometimes I shop at the local BestBuy to delay that inevitable day when Amazon is the only thing available.

mc32• 8 years ago

Bought something from Amazon, delivery status said was delivered on a Wed. but no such delivery. Got busy and forgot about it, two days later, bam! Delivery from who else, On-Track. On track is deceitful for some reason falsely announcing a delivery that won’t be made for a day or two in the future, I’m guessing to meet delivery SLOs.

ant6n2• 8 years ago

Mmmh. On boxing day I ordered some wifi-extenders, which was in stock. It was a good deal. When I received the order confirmation, it wasn't in stock anymore, they said they'd get it to me as soon as possible. Six months went by and occasionally I got updates they're still trying to get the item.

After six months I tried to tell them that I waited enough, and that they should actually deliver the item. They told me they cannot offer me the item, because it's not available. I told them it's actually available on their own store, at double the price. They told me that's different sellers, so even though they're selling it on their website, it's not actually their website or something. They graciously offered that I could cancel so that I could order it from them again at double price.

I tried to explain to them that I we've made a sales contract, and that it seems they want to unilaterally cancel it by simply not doing anything about it. I also tried to explain to them the issues of bait-and-switch sellling, and even cited from the government website (I'm in Canada, consumer protection is slightly stronger in the states). (Note that six months after boxing day, I can't get boxing day specials from competitors anymore)

In the end I spoke to several people who went around in circles over and over. Eventually somebody offered to give me store-credit that would cover the difference when cancelling the order and making it again immediately.

...I don't get why everybody thinks Amazon has great customer service. They don't even seem to believe in following basic consumer protection laws.

metasaval• 8 years ago

Was the item shipped and sold from Amazon? I admit they don't make this distinction very clear on their product page, and they make it way too easy to be a third-party seller on their site, but it makes a huge difference. Chances are you were talking directly to a third-party seller and not Amazon. I have had nothing but great experiences dealing with Amazon directly.

mnm12• 8 years ago

Same, but with Amazon, I've been on hold on the chat now for at least half an hour. The rep can't say if the order will be cancelled if I press the cancel button myself. It will never be delivered, that's for sure. Amazon's delivery service simply doesn't even attempt delivery. I'm pretty sure this kind of experience is hard to replicate simply because it's so bad. Even cancelling an order is hellish nowadays requiring a supervisor. What a shitty fucking company. And worse, it's the only place to buy a ton of stuff.

chmaynard• 8 years ago

Today I called Amazon

Please share the phone number you used to call Amazon. Thanks!

lainga• 8 years ago

I'm honestly surprised it isn't bigger. That's some serious king effect in the diagram.

mynameishere• 8 years ago

I've been using walmart.com occasionally and honestly it reminds me of how Amazon used to be: A smaller selection but no weird spammy cruft. Amazon makes a lot of money on sketchy 3rd parties. Also no "premium" membership ripoff (ie prime). You still have to use amazon for reviews though.

simonbarker87• 8 years ago

I agree on the sketchy third parties but why do you say Prime is a rip-off? You get TV and movies and free next day delivery (in the UK) on basically everything - feels like a good deal to me.

liveoneggs2• 8 years ago

also prime streaming music

abruzzi• 8 years ago

I’m not sure I’d use the term ripoff either, but prime is essentially there to tie people into using amazon. Once you’ve committed the $x/yr for prime it is there to compel you to spend more to make sure you get your money’s worth. Amazon could just as easily lower the prices of what they sell, or the cost of shipping, and not force people to buy in to a “club” membership. In my case I buy one or two things from Amazon a year, and have no interest in their streaming content, so whatever they’re charging these days for prime isn’t worth it.

ericd• 8 years ago

I'm pretty sure Walmart.com also has third party sellers for a lot of their items.

kickopotomus• 8 years ago

Idk if I would call prime a ripoff. If you use their services regularly it more than pays for itself (shipping fees, streaming, discounts on products and services).

ryanmercer4• 8 years ago

To me, it's worth it just for the Grand Tour and the occasional movie.

tjr2253• 8 years ago

I've found their reviews to be entirely untrustworthy...in fact I try to stick to smaller e-retailers or ordering directly from vendors after research. 2 day shipping ain't worth the cost IMO, even though I know I am in the minority.

ghostly_s• 8 years ago

2 day shipping ain't worth the cost IMO, even though I know I am in the minority.

Clearly I am too but I've never at all understood the appeal of Prime (aside from my occasional annoyance at TV shows that are only available there...luckily the interesting ones are a very short list).

If I need something with any urgency, I pretty much always need it today. In those cases I'll just go find it in a store. Nothing I buy on Amazon I particularly care when it gets to me.

r00fus• 8 years ago

I almost prefer Walmart or other vendors through Google Express to walmart.com (as I never want to set foot in their stores - or most retail stores).

The fake stuff problem on Amazon is truly reaching amazingly bad levels. I simply don't buy entire categories of things from Amazon because of fake %.

leesalminen• 8 years ago

Google Express has had some awesome coupons lately too. I’ve been using it to order from WalMart and Target. Happy thus far.

HarryHirsch• 8 years ago

The best thing about Walmart is that they deliver to the store without charging shipping. Instead of having your Amazon delivery swiped from the porch you pick up your order from your Walmart of choice.

ur-whale• 8 years ago

Is US e-commerce susceptible to 51% attacks?

mattbeckman• 8 years ago

If all other e-commerce outlets banded together, they could double spend at Amazon.

contravariant• 8 years ago

Well, there's regulatory capture, monopolization, and becoming too big too fail, but no 51% attack that I know of.

blitmap• 8 years ago

We need to increase participation with ghost consumers to stave off attacks like this? :p

blunte• 8 years ago

Like many other behemoth US companies, Amazon has taken dubious shortcuts to its position as leader... Anti-employment wage suppression in its distribution and shipping, wilfully facilitating counterfeit product sales, regional tax breaks, and perhaps the biggest multiplier - the stock market and its ability to allow leverage upon leverage.

We are seeing an excellent example of modern American capitalism.

kolpa2• 8 years ago

What does "modern" mean?

tjr2253• 8 years ago

mod·ern ˈmädərn/ adjective adjective: modern

    1.
    relating to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote past.
    "the pace of modern life"

vokep• 8 years ago

in the modern context? corrupted.

astronautjones• 8 years ago

about to collapse

munificent• 8 years ago

What is particularly American about the capitalism being shown here? Honest question: are other countries better?

mdev• 8 years ago

I can see someone else complete by having a competitive prime product equivalent for half the cost and remove unnecessary services. When I think about pricing its not very obvious to tack the $99 fee onto individual orders but you should since you're paying for it(I used to order 50+ times year from amazon and now its down to about 10-15 so it's harder to justify). Also, I rarely use other prime free products.

I'd be willing to move to Walmart or Google Express if they have a good selection and lower minimums + decent shipping times in return for a small yearly membership. I can still use amazon for larger purchases or pay a small premium for shipping as needed.

Zelphyr• 8 years ago

I think Jet.com tried this. If my memory serves, they were trying to be the Costco of online retailers where they generated a significant portion of their revenue from membership fees which would allow them to charge lower margins for their products.

I don't know if their acquisition by Walmart was considered a good exit or not but it seems to me that they at least didn't grow big enough and fast enough to be a direct competitor to Amazon. Maybe they are now that they're part of Walmart? I don't personally buy from them anymore but that's mostly due to my disdain for Walmart.

kevin_thibedeau• 8 years ago

I buy from them when Amazon pulls their "reserved for Prime" BS.

beamatronic• 8 years ago

I ordered a PlayStation 3 from Walmart years ago. It arrived in a smashed box. I took it into the store to get a refund. They treated me like I was a criminal.

smt883• 8 years ago

I did the same with a $700 TV a few days ago. No issues. They carried it from my car.

If they'd refused to take the return, I would've had AmEx refund my money, so I was safe either way.

lloydde• 8 years ago

Google Express currently has no membership fee. The minimums are different per store, around $25. What keeps Amazon my default is with almost every Express order I have some item cancelled by to store. (And the excessive taping and packaging of each item.)

I prefer shopping for Walmart in Express, because Walmart.com includes third parties with ridiculous prices and quantities, and also in-store only.

My most consistent use of Express is for Costco quantities of organic canned beans and bags of organic rice.

paulddraper• 8 years ago

On mobile I scroll to the bottom and then I can't get back to the article.

atonse2• 8 years ago

When I wanted to buy a Hakko Soldering Iron, I heard that there are counterfeit ones on Amazon. So instead of getting 2 day shipping, I got the nearly 1+ week shipping direct from Hakko. But I know it'll be authentic.

Same with Adafruit products, and I'm increasingly noticing that if I want to make sure something absolutely won't be fake, I buy direct from the retailer.

It sucks. You get spoiled by Amazon's amazing "free" shipping especially if you're a prime member.

But it's more important to me that a product is genuine. I'll learn to be a bit more patient.

liveoneggs2• 8 years ago

I was just looking at jansport backpacks for my kids and all of them had "jansport sent this back as not authentic" reviews

atonse2• 8 years ago

There you go. But if you go to Jansport, I bet you'll have to pay shipping and the cheap option will be 5-10 business days. That's the norm. We've forgotten, mostly thanks to Amazon.

ceejayoz3• 8 years ago

It's really bad with things like SD cards. I've gotten ones that are half their stated capacity, and ones that are supposed to be V90 class (90MB/sec write) that barely make 10MB/sec.

blt2• 8 years ago

There's a lot of counterfeit stuff on Amazon. I ordered a Pulltaps corkscrew and the chrome-plated metal part [1] was instead made of crudely bent sheet metal that didn't look remotely authentic. After that I mainly use Amazon for small household consumables. I also heard stories about counterfeit Mitutoyo calipers [2] so I didn't even consider trying Amazon for those.

[1] http://cellarsofwine.com/img/pulltex-pulltaps-double-hinged-...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDype-j3hk

cottonseed• 8 years ago

After that I mainly use Amazon for small household consumables.

I got fake Dove soap from Amazon.

ProAm• 8 years ago

This weeks episode of Reply All [P] talks about how Amazon counterfeits, how it's easy to do, no recourse and be bundled along with the authentic products for sale. It was very interesting.

[P] https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/124

m-localhost• 8 years ago

just wanted to mention that. Indeed a very insightful episode, that explained a lot of comments I've seen lately.

ehsankia4• 8 years ago

Should Amazon add the concept of "Verified" resellers?

chaostheory• 8 years ago

Now the problem is starting to get mass attention outside of tech. I understand that this is a hard problem but it's been years now and there's no solution in sight. The practice of mixing the same products from different vendors just needs to end.

Key normal person quote from the podcast:

"It just feels like this magic store that you guys thought it was, is definitely isn't what it is today. It seems like a place that puts you in touch with some dude selling tongs in Hong Kong, and maybe you'll get a great pair or maybe you'll get ripped off. [Amazon] is just like any other website now"

This mixed with their now crippled customer service has almost turned the Amazon experience into ebay.

m-p-3• 8 years ago

Woupd be nice if they had a "Verified" symbol on the seller's name if it actually comes from that brand, kind of like with Twitter accounts.

eloff• 8 years ago

The problem is worse than that. They mix the inventory from all sellers, including themselves, for the same product. So all it takes is one counterfeit seller to poison the whole well.

mancerayder• 8 years ago

It would, but by doing so they'd be by fiat casting suspicions on the non-"Verified" variants, and perhaps on the whole brand as a result! I think the HN crowd is more united around the counterfeit issue than rest of the population.

gnopgnip2• 8 years ago

Brands can become gated and then only approved sellers can sell those items on Amazon.

lozaning3• 8 years ago

Or at a minimum let buyers know which sellers have opted to not commingle their inventory.

plainOldText• 8 years ago

Just to be clear, you're saying you've encountered counterfeits on Adafruit?

jack122• 8 years ago

I read it as meaning Adafruit-branded products purchased via Amazon from 3rd parties.

athenot• 8 years ago

Conterfeit items are a problem. But even with legit items, I always check elsewhere: quite often, Amazon is not the cheapest.

For items fulfilled by other vendors, I google that vendor's name, see if they have a site. Usually, even with shipping it's cheaper on the vendor's site than on Amazon (I guess that's the fee levied to sell on Amazon, and the rounding involved to do "free shipping").

Amazon excels at convenience, reviews and return policy. Often they are great on pricing. But they are no longer my one-stop shop.

nightski• 8 years ago

Me too. Ironically the one thing I still buy on Amazon is books. I do try to support local bookstores but we don't have many other than B&N and it's not just a small markup, books can cost twice as much there. It's really hard to justify $60 vs. $30 for the same thing.

econochoice3• 8 years ago

I just skip the middlemen and use Aliexpress.

There, you'll see 95% of the electronics, tools and small appliances you'd see on Amazon.

The pictures are usually the same, too.

ryanmercer4• 8 years ago

Heh because it's people buying on Alibaba then having it shipped straight to Amazon for FBA. I see and file the Customs paperwork on the shipments daily at work.

jack122• 8 years ago

Lithium ion batteries are another example of this. Used batteries 're-wrapped' in counterfeit labeling to look like some particular brand/model are probably more common than genuine products on Amazon.

More often than not, buying batteries through Amazon is literally paying someone to ship their e-waste to you.

ggg99904• 8 years ago

The messed up thing is that I ordered a product SOLD AND SHIPPED BY AMAZON.COM and it was counterfeit. That's the day I stopped buying stuff for my kid on Amazon. Now I drive to Target and waste an hour each time but it's better than using some counterfeit product on her.

ggg99904• 8 years ago

I just realized for the first time, typing this comment, that I could order online from Target, and I've never tried it. Shows you how dominant of a position in e-commerce Amazon has. I'll have to try it.

astura2• 8 years ago

Why not shop at Target.com? I've always gotten very good service there and you can "link" gift cards to your online account so if you get a Target gift card you can't lose it or forget to use it.

dragonwriter3• 8 years ago

The messed up thing is that I ordered a product SOLD AND SHIPPED BY AMAZON.COM and it was counterfeit.

Sold and shipped by Amazon is exactly as dangerous as Fulfilled By Amazon that hasn't opted out of commingling, because it is commingled with FBA.

Now I drive to Target and waste an hour each time but it's better than using some counterfeit product on her.

Why not online at Target.com or Google Express (which has Target as one of its stores?)

dboreham2• 8 years ago

Same. Filters for our well system. Comments that they were not genuine, so ordered from Home Depot.

Alex3917• 8 years ago

The worst thing is that even if you report the products as counterfeit, Amazon won’t take them down or refund the purchases.

b1daly• 8 years ago

Is that really the case? I’ve returned things to amazon for other reasons...

walrus01• 8 years ago

While on the subject of high quality electronics stuff, I cannot endorse this brand highly enough:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiha_Tools

https://www.mouser.com/wiha/product-line/

To the extent that for DC power work, as things wear out I am not buying Klein anymore.

jamestimmins• 8 years ago

I suspect the defense (whether it's valid or not is for lawyers to debate) is that if 68% of Amazon's sales are the result of other sellers using their marketplace, it isn't quite accurate to say that these sales belong to Amazon.

jpao795• 8 years ago

Yes, in someways it feels like if Visa claimed that it handles 99.99% of all online retailing and showing revenue numbers based on the entire retail sales transaction and not just on the 1.5% processing fee.

To a certain extent, Amazon's retail presence is 68% Marketplace (from the article). Marketplace is really just a very high scale website plus very high scale order fulfillment which nets an analogous 6%-15% fee for listing, inventory storage and shipping/returns.

adventured• 8 years ago

They're increasingly nothing more than a platform like eBay or Alibaba (soon they'll have the ad business to match). However that won't save them from having to be careful as their dominance continues to increase. If you own the $200 billion platform, you wield the power, not the little guy selling $100k or $1m worth of merchandise per year. Regulators will focus on the platform owner and any broad market abuses that harm consumers. Bezos potentially going toward $200 billion in personal wealth guarantees they'll perpetually be a target, it doesn't matter how good they are to consumers, that much concentrated economic power terrifies a lot of people; his wealth alone will be taken by many as evidence of wrong doing, it's a lightning rod for attention. Gates solved that by pledging to give most of his wealth away and moving to philanthropy as a primary focus. Bezos is going to have a harder time based on what he has said he plans to do (assuming Amazon's insane valuation doesn't implode after this round of the asset inflation party ends).

jpao795• 8 years ago

I think what's also interesting is that now that Microsoft is awake with Nadella at the helm and presenting a viable alternative, will Amazon's cloud business start losing marketshare.

If I were say, Procter and Gamble/Clorox (Consumer Staples), Macy's (Consumer Discretionary), Visa/Fedex (E-Commerce), Aetna (Healthcare) if I were going to look at options for cloud, would I host my enterprise on Amazon who is actively trying compete with me and provide the end customer with alternatives to my product/services? Or would I go with a vertical pure play cloud services provider like Microsoft.

fwdpropaganda• 8 years ago

Amazon does have an ad business, and has for some years now.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/amazon-ad-business-to-reach-5-...

mikestew• 8 years ago

I'm all set to jump on the Amazon hate bandwagon, and I'm tryin', I really am. So when I wanted window shadows for our RV, I thought I'd give the non-Amazon shop a shot. They had what I wanted, order page was tidy, item arrives in short order, and the shades are better quality than I expected. Happy customer!

Until two days later and my bank calls, telling me my CC is compromised. Now, I can't say for sure it was the online vendor's fault. But in summary, I would hesitate to order from them again.

d4l3k• 8 years ago

I've been using https://privacy.com/ to prevent this exact kind of thing.

icebraining• 8 years ago

Some banks also have virtual CCs included.

pnathan4• 8 years ago

Huh, never heard of them before. Interesting concept, but the in-browser replacements worry me. Know of any service that does disposable CCs without the in-browser hackery?

ddoolin• 8 years ago

That's neat, thanks for sharing.

therealdrag0• 8 years ago

I used this back when PayPal did it. Wonder why they stopped.

yourapostasy• 8 years ago

Until two days later and my bank calls, telling me my CC is compromised. Now, I can't say for sure it was the online vendor's fault.

It takes some getting used to, but this is the precise reason I use one-time use credit card numbers (also called virtual credit cards). Only a few card issuers offer this, but it has stopped cold the credit card fraud I used to experience from e-commerce. There are criticisms of this service [1], which I haven't experienced, though YMMV.

[1] https://www.mybanktracker.com/credit-cards/faq/why-virtual-c...

tibiapejagala2• 8 years ago

Meanwhile in my country in Europe I have never heard about anyone buying anything from Amazon. Not the IT people, not the common folk, not teenagers, literally no one. Maybe someone bought a Kindle some time back, but I remember that people were literally reading tutorials how to buy it from amazon. The same people who had been buying things online for years.

Amazon doesn't even have a polish website, as amazon.pl redirects to amazon.de They have multipe logistic centres in my country, employing thousands of people though! I guess it's for Germany so I can buy at amazon.de with international shipping, lol.

We have Uber, McDonald's, iphones, credit cards, the internet, electricity! Come on! Almost everyone buys online here, either native polish e-commerce or directly from China.

Also I think we can't buy any of Google hardware directly. I have given up on them though.

So much for globalization.

AnssiH2• 8 years ago

Amazon doesn't even have a polish website, as amazon.pl redirects to amazon.de They have multipe logistic centres in my country, employing thousands of people though! I guess it's for Germany so I can buy at amazon.de with international shipping, lol.

Amazon.de does have Polish-language interface, though, and free shipping to Poland (and 10 other European countries) for orders over €39.

Also I think we can't buy any of Google hardware directly. I have given up on them though.

They seem to have given up as well... a few years ago the Finnish Google Store sold various Nexus tablets and phones, nowadays it is just Wifi and Chromecast.

tibiapejagala2• 8 years ago

Amazon.de does have Polish-language interface, though, and free shipping to Poland (and 10 other European countries) for orders over €39.

Well, that's something. Some content seems to be machine-translated and prices are in €, but it indeed works. I wonder why wouldn't they just slap polish domain on it. And why I haven't heard about that.

They seem to have given up as well... a few years ago the Finnish Google Store sold various Nexus tablets and phones, nowadays it is just Wifi and Chromecast.

"We aren’t in your country yet" I guess I'll get Xiaomi or Samsung again.

kuschku• 8 years ago

With Amazon in Europe it’s like with a lot of things, the German and British versions have basically become the standard, and everyone uses them now.

Amazon.de ships to half of Europe with the same conditions, and is translated into all those languages as well.

Still, it’s not really proper support.

akvadrako• 8 years ago

It's not the same conditions - half the stuff I try to buy on amazon.de doesn't ship to the Netherlands. And stuff that isn't fulfilled by Amazon is always expensive to ship.

pedrocr2• 8 years ago

Amazon doesn't even have a polish website, as amazon.pl redirects to amazon.de

Someone at Amazon needs to understand what the single market is. amazon.eu is an institutional site when it should be their only european site. When I want to buy something on amazon I end up looking at all of UK/FR/ES/DE/IT at least. They will all happily ship to me with all sorts of combinations of item price and shipping cost. And then logistically I believe they will ship from wherever it's convenient. So they've artificially segmented the market for no reason, giving me a poorer experience in the process.

AnssiH2• 8 years ago

segmented the market for no reason

This probably allows them to maximize profits, e.g. most French people probably won't go look at Amazon Spain to see if the graphics card they want is cheaper there...

You are correct in that Amazon EU has common stock despite the products having different prices on the different regional sites.

majani• 8 years ago

You actually want Amazon to march into your country and eat up your local e-commerce market? That is incredibly short sighted. If you could take a step back and realize how important the software revolution is in the modern economy, you'd realize the importance of not having all the profits from the largest software markets eaten up by Silicon Valley companies making obscene profits.

pnathan4• 8 years ago

Time and again I can't find what I'm looking for in brick and mortar, but it's on Amazon. Original companies don't always have a direct sales arm.

I avoid buying gadgets from Amazon, but other than that... ::shrug:: They've got it nailed. Worlds better than brick and mortar for non-boutique goods.

bgun• 8 years ago

Couldn't agree with you more. I wandered through a big-box store not long ago for 15 minutes searching, I kid you not, for AAA batteries. I'd even bought them at the same store before, but the powers that be decided that store layout wasn't profitable enough, or whatever prompts such decisions.

mojowo11• 8 years ago

When I say this, please understand that I'm saying this as a person who would've wandered for 15 minutes as well -- but yeah, you COULD just ask someone who works there where the batteries are.

taurath3• 8 years ago

I went shopping for some cal king bedsheets last week. Bed Bath & Beyond had 1 set - the warmest sheets possible, in the middle of summer. Macys had 0. Target had 0.

Then I went on amazon - the only sheets that were on prime with a good rating were $60 sets of... dubious quality, and half the ratings seemed like they were fake (almost all "recent" reviews were 1 stars). I ended up finding a (much more expensive) specialized sheet co, but am waiting 2 weeks for the delivery (4 day delivery cost $30!!).

It really kind of sucks, because I used to rely on Amazon for this sort of stuff - I WANT to buy stuff on Prime but I might as well be shopping at a street market half the time.

reaperducer4• 8 years ago

It was very weird reading your comment, because I went down the same rabbit hole a few months ago. Nothing in BB&B, Target, or Macy's. Lots in Amazon, but all looked fake. (3,500 thread count? How dumb do I look?)

Ended up getting them in a really weird B&M place. I'd never buy sheets on Amazon.

Also, I'll probably never get another calking sized bed.

pantomone• 8 years ago

Just go directly to Ali express and skip the FBA resellers. Same selection as Amazon, 1/3 the price, slower shipping.

Retric2• 8 years ago

Amazon needs to sell a lot of counterfeit goods or their model fails. They must both collect sales tax and pay shipping costs so they are not cheaper by default.

It's interesting how they reinvented the Walmart model of selling low quality knock offs of 'name brand' items. The difference is Walmart gets company's to sell lower quality goods through them where Amazon get's third parties to fill their sales channels with counterfeit goods.

smileysteve• 8 years ago

Consider bamboo sheets for cool

pnathan4• 8 years ago

I genuinely don't have this issue unless I'm looking at gadgetry or oddly specific niches of highly commoditized commodities, e.g., toasters.

I may just intuit what to do and what to buy. That can happen. :)

lawrenceyan2• 8 years ago

A company that Amazon can learn a lot from is JD.com in regards to counterfeit items and customer trust. When you buy a product using JD backed shipping, you are guaranteed to get a real product, which is especially important in a country like China where authenticity is extremely coveted in a world of frauds/fakes.

It might not be as highly held in people's minds here in the US, but I still think there's a limit, and Amazon has definitely crossed it at this point. Continuing to allow the amount of counterfeit goods that currently circulates throughout their warehouses will permanently stain Amazon's reputation if something isn't done soon. Trust is difficult build up, and almost impossible to regain once lost.

fenwick67• 8 years ago

To be fair Amazon also "guarantees" you won't receive conterfeits, you can return a counterfeit and get your money back.

rasz2• 8 years ago

To return something you first have to receive it.

lawrenceyan2• 8 years ago

The difference between a JD "guarantee" and an Amazon "guarantee" is that the JD one actually means something.

When you guarantee something and then fail to deliver on that promise, people begin to lose trust in you. Have it happen enough, this often only needs to be once by the way, and they likely will never fully trust you again.

exolymph• 8 years ago

What about the counterfeits you don't notice? That's what I worry about.

mlrtime• 8 years ago

How do you know the guaranteed fairy isn't some crazy glue sniffer. He sneaks into your house once and that's all it takes. Next thing you know, there is money missing off your dresser and your daughter is knocked up! I've seen it a hundred times.

If you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark it guaranteed I will... I've got spare time.

- Tommy Boy

crb002• 8 years ago

"Free" shipping but the seller pays a 15% stocking fee.

40acres• 8 years ago

Buying stuff on Amazon has just become second nature to me. I've gotten hard to find hot sauce, books, and laundry detergent despite the fact that I live literally across the street from a whole foods because of the convenience. My apartment complex recently installed an Amazon Hub as well. I've never really had an issue w/ the quality of goods or counterfeits and Prime is a great deal if only for the 2 day shipping and Prime Video.

foxhop• 8 years ago

Does anyone understand just how bad this statistic, if true, is?

It almost seems like there is room for somebody to disrupt Amazon by building a better e-commerce mousetrap and getting multiple retailers and distributors to co'operate with it.

aiyodev• 8 years ago

Sears, Roebuck and Company used to own 100% of the market. Look at where they are today.

ryanmercer4• 8 years ago

They had a good chunk of the toilet paper market covered too, their catalogs. Seriously. My grandfather would regularly tell me about having to wipe his butt with pages from the Sears catalog when he was a kid on the farm.

deanCommie• 8 years ago

I feel like the current backlash against Amazon fails to consider the question: What would the alternative be if Amazon never adopted the 3rd party Marketplace or added the international sellers?

Selection would be significantly smaller. Some percentage of items that are currently getting overwhelmed with fraud would be available safer, sure, but likely at a much higher price (competition lowers prices, after all).

Everyone remembers the time they got a crappy knockoff, or had to filter through fake reviews. But most of the time, people just search for something, buy it, and are satisfied, never having to consider whether it was only fulfilled by Amazon.

At least there is a consistent search/shopping experience, and the refunds are generally instantaneous and there are no questions asked. You can't say that about dealextreme, or alibaba, or dozens of other sites we'd be forced to use if Amazon didn't decide to take on the long tail fo sellers and become responsible for solving the fraud use cases.

ebbv• 8 years ago

But most of the time, people just search for something, buy it, and are satisfied, never having to consider whether it was only fulfilled by Amazon.

What’s your basis for this? Just the fact that Amazon is so successful? What if that success is in spite of the third party sellers and not because of them?

I know my own personal experience with Amazon over the last few years has been feeling like I’m trying to outsmart the website which is constantly trying to direct me to buy from sources I don’t trust.

As a result I am more and more hesitant to turn to Amazon than I was years ago.

Is my case the common case or is your hypothetical one? I don’t know that we can say. But I think as more people get burned by bad actors they will become less likely to use the site. My basis for this is eBay, which is a shadow of its former self. Being over taken in many areas by niche sites that specialize in a certain market and are at least perceived as more trustworthy. (E.g. Reverb for musical instruments.)

count• 8 years ago

You can say: they continue to grow at a ridiculous pace, meaning that more people are using it than leaving it, and it's being used more.

jpao795• 8 years ago

Amazon should (and still can while there's still time before some major negative social media event) split their website, reviews, search and fulfillment inventory to make it clear what you are getting/who you are buying from.

amazon.com -> the original trusted amazon, fulfilled by amazon with strict inventory management

marketplace.amazon.com -> wild west'e-bay style', 'get what you get and don't get upset' amazon

[Addition based on comment] Or maybe amazon-marketplace.com to further differentiate it. It'd be similar to how Netflix split into netflix.com and dvd.com (although I think they should have branded it netflix-dvd.com for branding purposes).

woolvalley• 8 years ago

Most internet users wont understand the difference if you just differ the urls. A very large chunk dont use/understand the url bar, and just use google search to access websites.

em3rgent0rdr• 8 years ago

Actually I like having a unified store...helps provide competition between the marketplace and amazon's own.

Anyway, if you want to avoid marketplace, in the left column, under "Seller", check the box next to "Amazon". (Maybe they could provide this as a permanent setting via preferences.)

lettergram• 8 years ago

fraud would be available safer, sure, but likely at a much higher price (competition lowers prices, after all).

Fraud does lower prices, but is not competition in the classic sense.. fraud is someone using someone else's brand or name in an attempt to mislead while selling you a different item. This is not competition, where various items are sold with their own brands / name, such that consumers can distinguish and choose the best item to buy.

arbuge• 8 years ago

What would the alternative be if Amazon never adopted the 3rd party Marketplace or added the international sellers?

Most likely that traffic would fall to Ebay, which would then be a not-so-distant #2.

pwaai• 8 years ago

time for anti-trust suit??

dawhizkid• 8 years ago

Amazon search, reviews, product ratings have been completely gamed by third party sellers.

Type in "wireless headphones" and the top results is completely full of counterfeit or knockoff goods. It's shocking how little news this makes in major publications.

S7012MY4• 8 years ago

I think when you're buying an expensive item, you should do your research first on the internet, find the best item for you and then order it.

fermienrico• 8 years ago

GP's message is about lack of legit reviews on Amazon when searching for wireless headphones. You are talking about doing an internet research for wireless headphones. They are two separate topics.

loco5niner3• 8 years ago

I think your description is unclear... order it from where?

germanier3• 8 years ago

Google search results are absolutely littered with fake review sites that have never actually have tested the products they claim, usually just reiterating the Amazon product pages (which is only obvious once you know that this is a thing). It's extremely hard to find a real review in a product category you are not an expert in to the point where I have just given up.

perl4ever2• 8 years ago

I have the mindset now that when I want something that I would otherwise look on Amazon for, I search for a specialty online retailer who will (of necessity) beat Amazon and local businesses in all respects, from reliability to selection. For instance, if I want chocolate, there is a site devoted to chocolate. If I want car parts & accessories, there are sites specializing in that. If I want computer cables, there is a site specializing in those. It's a given that everybody has to compete with Amazon, so non-Amazon retailers, if they're well established, tend to be really good in their niche. I think this is actually an overlooked positive externality of Amazon's dominance.

colinbartlett• 8 years ago

It seems to me that they are working to solve this in creative ways. For example, on a recent Amazon search, I noticed the results page included embedded recommendations from the Wirecutter, which is review site owned by the New York Times.

dingo_bat3• 8 years ago

First page of results was pretty good. I didn't go deeper.

dredmorbius• 8 years ago

The big news here for me is the well-below-forecast growth of ecommerce.

I'd first noted this for years ago[1]. In an earlier, 2010 TechCrunch piece,[2] Forrester Research predicted a $250 billion e-commerce market, 8% of all retail, by 2014. We're just barely reaching 10% in 2018.

U.S. census estimated 5.3% in 2013.[3]

The hype's not measuring up. E-commerce has growwth resistance.

________________________________

Notes:

1. https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/243in1/privacy...

2. https://techcrunch.com/2010/03/08/forrester-forecast-online-...

3. https://www.sba.gov/advocacy/analysis-internet-sales-taxatio...

S7012MY4• 8 years ago

In Romania shipping takes a lot and prices are higher, so I prefer ordering from Amazon Italy or Germany and I get the same price even though I also pay for shipping

nafizh• 8 years ago

Amazon's customer care experience is second to none. I have been a prime member for almost 4 years now, and every time I had a problem, it was instantly resolved, no questions asked. The only company whose customer care is at par with them is Apple.

rochak• 8 years ago

I think that greatly depends upon the demographics. Here in India, Apple sucks in customer care. Amazon is ok, not too good. The number of counterfeit products I've received is baffling.

ggg99904• 8 years ago

It’s absolutely nuts that Apple sells as much of their own product as Walmart.com sells of thousands of products.

kbenson2• 8 years ago

Walmart, the world’s biggest retailer when counting physical stores, has yet to really hit the right note in e-commerce...

This is online sales only. Apple sells a slightly higher value of goods online that Walmart does. Apple's products are generally much more expensive than Walmart's products.

Extrapolating from Amazon's numbers, every percent of total online sales is approximately $5.26 billion. That means Apple has online sales of about $20.5 billion, and Walmart has about $19.5 billion in online sales.

Walmart revenue was $318.5 billion in 2018 in the U.S alone (and not including Sam's Club)[1]. Walmart is still selling significantly more than Amazon overall.

1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269403/net-sales-of-walm...

ggg99904• 8 years ago

I know that, that’s why I said Walmart.com. It’s still mind blowing

rcar10462• 8 years ago

Almost every Amazon thread on HN seems to devolve into stories of receiving counterfeit goods. I order around 10 items per week on Amazon and have never received anything counterfeit or suspect over a decade of shopping.

It takes very little effort to weed out bad actors imo. Perhaps this is a case of the negative experiences only being shared? Or...I'm better at online shopping. I'm guessing the former, but it gets tiring watching companies grow from loved to hated once they reach such a critical mass.

Nobody likes to root for the favorite I suppose.

minhaz232• 8 years ago

It also depends on what you're shopping for. If its skincare, haircare, korean beauty items, accessories like sunglasses than theres a greater likelihood of running into counterfeit items.

jstarfish2• 8 years ago

Batteries, car parts and model-specific computer parts (laptop chargers, etc) also have high rates of fraud.

tjr2253• 8 years ago

I simply find the entire experience to be unenticing. Pay an ever increasing rate for 2 day shipping per year? Nah. Sift through an onslaught of phony reviews and hope You get some working cheap crap? Nah. It's just not that great. I'd rather drive to Trader Joe's or Safeway or even wait a week or so and order it directly from the company who sells the product.

I can see it being pretty awesome for small business users who need stuff like paper, pens, ink, etc on a regular basis - but honestly ever since I stopped compulsively buying crap on amazon I can't say that my life has gotten any worse. In fact I'm probably way better off.

dingo_bat3• 8 years ago

Pay an ever increasing rate for 2 day shipping per year

Just get a prime subscription and never pay for shipping again.

Sift through an onslaught of phony reviews and hope You get some working cheap crap

I read reviews from all over the web and then just buy it from Amazon. Never got a fake product.

azhenley• 8 years ago

The price of everything seems to be ever increasing.

The cost of Prime seemed to be underpriced, and now it is just correcting.

j792• 8 years ago

Sift through an onslaught of phony reviews and hope You get some working cheap crap? Nah.

A major reason I've stopped shopping Amazon are the reviews. It's crazy thinking that my on-line shopping changed from:

Researching for the best price (or searching for a coupon)

Researching if the reviews are actually "legit".

The last few products I purchased, where even "Fakespot" gave an "A" grade, the product was absolutely piss-poor in quality.

deeg• 8 years ago

I'm the same. I do probably 90% of my non-food shopping on Amazon (and have for years) and I've had only one minor bad experience.

dnomad• 8 years ago

Yeah, there really must be some kind of alternative "even worse timeline" that these people live in. There are shady sellers on Amazon but all evidence indicates that the vast majority of Amazon shipments (I'm guessing 99%) are fine. In the last 20 years (!) I can think of only a single Amazon order that was not counterfeit but clearly suspect. I contacted Amazon via chat and not only did they refund it immediately they sent out a superior replacement for free. (This was a case where, I think, Amazon may have recognized some legal liability on their part.)

Nobody likes to root for the favorite I suppose.

Paranoia is an acquired taste. There's certainly a powerful self-validation at work when you can count yourself among one of the few, wise ones who haven't fallen for the popular lie. Amazon conspiracy theories are a big thing, especially among the essential oils crowd, who are already prone to conspiratorial thinking.

The extraordinary growth of Amazon actually speaks to the fact that most people -- 100 million households and counting -- are pretty happy with the service.

rounce• 8 years ago

Hi Jeff!

freehunter• 8 years ago

I’m pretty sure I’ve left this exact same comment multiple times in the past. Can’t believe people complain, what kind of research are you doing, I’m better at hunting down real items and you’re bad at it, etc. I could not believe people would fall for counterfeit items.

Until one day, I got one. Brand name product that I could buy at Walmart, tons of 5 star reviews, sold by the real manufacturer, legit product page. But still I got a fake item. Obviously fake. I sent it back, no problem, got a real one in return. And then it happened again. And again. I buy probably 2-3 items per week on Amazon, and one item every month or two comes in a fake. SD cards are particularly awful, but brand name cables are just as bad. I’ve gotten fake bags and clothes too. I ordered a brand name, well reviewed shower curtain, got what was obviously a display model for a retail store because it was about 6” tall. Not a real shower curtain.

I’ve also had their terrible quality control go the other way: four times in the past year I’ve bought one item and received one case of the item. Still only charged for one, so it’s a win. But it’s a sign of awful quality control. I ordered one 128GB USB drive and got a case of 6. I ordered one bag of sunflower seeds and got a case of 12.

I used to leave comments just like you, telling everyone else that it’s their fault they get counterfeit items from Amazon. And then it started happening to me.

aaron_m04• 8 years ago

All _my_ shower curtains have been 6". What have you been doing wrong?

TheRealDunkirk• 8 years ago

Amazon is hanging itself with its own rope here, and leaving the door wide open to places like Wayfair. We need more focused, curated, and transparent shopping sites. I am buying MORE tech from Best Buy these days, because they've done the curation. No matter what the reviews say -- and they're basically all useless, at this point -- BB isn't going to carry a turd that has a high rate of return on their precious shelf space. And, if that does happen, a physical return is even easier than repackaging something and dropping it off at the UPS store. I hope others follow in the wake of the mess that Amazon has allowed to fester, and capitalize on the opportunity to be more trustworthy.

cwilkes• 8 years ago

6 inches tall? What is this ... a shower curtain for ants?

rcar10462• 8 years ago

The "being better at online shopping" bit was meant to be facetious. More to the point was that it feels like a case of the negative voices drowning out the satisfied, and I find this is often the case as companies grow from underdog startup to industry leading goliaths.

See the Golden State Warriors.

fma5• 8 years ago

Luck of the draw for fraud. You could be buying from the highest rated seller, but if their product is comingle you can get a counterfeit.

Additional, counterfeits can be good enough that you don't know it's fake.

https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2014/07/01/pros-and-cons-...

varrock• 8 years ago

Would denoting if a seller under FBA is using the commingling service help solve this issue, or would that negatively effect the benefits Amazon reaps from this type of inventory model?

dragonwriter3• 8 years ago

It takes very little effort to weed out bad actors imo.

It's practically impossible to weed out the bad actors, since any time you order some thing sold and shipped by Amazon or FBA (unless you know the latter has opted out of commingling), you might get something sourced by a different party than the notional seller. Filtering out bad actors doesn't work when there is zero transparency about the only actor involved—the one sourcing the item—that matters.

peteretep2• 8 years ago

I never did, and then I started to. Especially clothes. I love Amazon, but they absolutely 100% need to get on top of this, as they've started losing significant business from me.

kbos87• 8 years ago

Amazon is enemy #1 of small business. It blows my mind that people don’t see this and are so quick to don a badge of how many items they order per week.

dingo_bat3• 8 years ago

Is that a bad thing?

askafriend• 8 years ago

It depends on how you define small business.

Under a different definition, Amazon is the best friend of small business e-commerce: https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/benefits.h...

AmericanChopper• 8 years ago

Amazon isn’t a threat to small businesses in general. Certain categories of retailers will struggle to compete with them, but that’s the nature of innovation. Old business models will always need to find new ways to compete. Also, Something your assertion completely ignores is the Amazon is friend #1 of consumers. If consumers didn’t benefit from Amazon, they wouldn’t use it.

fma5• 8 years ago

Walmart had been improving but I don't know why, as big as they are, they don't step up their game.

I ordered somethings last night (Thursday). Walmart and Amazon offered free two day shipping.

Amazon will arrive Sunday... Walmart Tuesday, with two items arriving Friday. All Walmart items were sold directly by Walmart and not third party.

The fact I even purchased from Walmart is a testament to their competitive pricing s d selection... But shipping... Needs some work.

beauzero• 8 years ago

As someone who worked for a used book warehouse. Counterfeits are a huge problem. A large source of books for us was at a specific auction. We started getting so many counterfeit textbooks from that auction that we pretty much had to stop selling textbooks. For a specific textbook that we would get hundreds of, we would purchase one directly from the publisher and then compare.

mnm12• 8 years ago

It's amazing they have gotten this far but can't even deliver packages properly. The last few orders, they haven't even tried. Their new delivery service is manned by idiots who can't even read maps. What's worse is that they will lie and say they attempted delivery, but they don't leave a note or anything because they don't even go by the house. I understand the job sucks big time for the drivers, but this is unacceptable no matter what. 2 day shipping my ass. The packages delivered with Amazon's service simply never arrive. Then there's the matter of them closing accounts, lying that there were some violations of undisclosed policy, and stealing the prime payments. Of course people are going to return an inordinate amount of stuff when most of the stuff available to buy is fake or shoddy quality. Every time I go back and give them another chance, I regret it. I guess others are less sensitive to such issues.

jaclaz• 8 years ago

A curious thing that happened me last month.

I needed one of those kits (the "professional" ones) to try and remove dents from car bodies with hot glue, dent puller, etc.

A "real" professional kit costs around 400-500 Euros here (Italy) and since I needed it only for a small experiment (attempting to straighten a collapsed stainless steel fume pipe) I wasn't going to get one of those.

After finding on e-bay an el cheapo (but not too shabby) Chinese kit with just the stuff I needed (some have also mirrors and levers I didnt need) for around 70 euro, I ordered it (and got a valid receipt/invoice from the seller) and two or three days later the box arrived directly from Amazon!

Amazon’s share of the US e-commerce market is now 49%

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