Comic Sans, meet Comic Neue

http://comicneue.com/

by calibwam • 12 years ago

521 154 12 years ago

comicneue.com

computer• 12 years ago

"Download Comic Neue, free for a limited time"

What does that mean? There's no real license information anywhere.

da4c30ff• 12 years ago

An honest question: Isn't it that in some legal systems, an absence of license means public domain?

slashdotaccount• 12 years ago

Most of the world implemented the Berne Convention, which creates a thing called "copyright". In the world of copyright, absence of license means all rights reserved, except for "fair use", "fair dealing" and similar exceptions. In the world outside copyright law everything is in the public domain, no licenses necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention

DrStalker• 12 years ago

While I'm sure there is a legal system somewhere in the world that does that most places have automatic rights for intellectual property, even if you give it away for free. Trying to use this font for business would result in compliance issues, because it's unclear what you can and can't do with it.

huskyr• 12 years ago

Before 1989 the United States required a copyright symbol and year of publishing on every work. After 1989, i don't know of any country that still does this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Copyright_notices_in...

__anders__• 12 years ago

AFAIK in USA at least, until 1976 that was the deal. From that year on, everything is copyright by default.

This change was because The Night of the Living Dead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyri...

Tuna-Fish• 12 years ago

It's possible in any of the countries that are gray on this map, but I'm not sure if any of them actually do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berne_Convention_signatori...

In general, unless you live in Burma or something, you can assume that if you don't have a license, you can't do anything with any content.

chrisBob2• 12 years ago

A normal web page would probably have a link to the license information, but since you can't put links in CSS pages the author just had to make it open source.

wut42• 12 years ago

what ? this is a normal web page. what do you mean CSS page ?

ceejayoz2• 12 years ago

What the hell are you on about? There are a variety of links on the page. You can't build a page out of CSS only.

rebel• 12 years ago

Yeah, that seems like a terrible "license structure". If he added irrevocable I think it would be sufficient for use, but as is I can't understand how you could currently feel safe using it?

pbhjpbhj• 12 years ago

Currently the site says: "No attribution is required, this free version of Comic Neue has been released into the public domain." and links to CC's public domain page at http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ .

coffeecodecouch• 12 years ago

First thoughts: I like it, it will be interesting to see what the typography community has to say. Slightly off topic, but it's funny how Comic Sans, a font, has become so widely hated and mocked even among non-tech savvy people. There seems to be a tipping point where something becomes cool to hate. It's absolutely impossible nowadays to use Comic Sans, even if it's completely appropriate for the situation, without being mocked by people who have never used anything else but Times New Roman.

zokier6• 12 years ago

without being mocked by people who have never used anything else but Helvetica.

ftfy. I find that unquestioning love for Helvetica and hate for Comic Sans go hand in hand.

fhars• 12 years ago

I really should get that T-shirt I have been thinking about, with "Helvetica!" written on it in Comic Sans.

scott_s• 12 years ago

Please don't use the "fixed this for you" meme. It's needlessly snarky. Just explain how you disagree.

cessor2• 12 years ago

I find the qualification of "appropriate for the situation" somewhat disturbing in the example of comic sans. Just like wearing a clown costume to a job interview is hardly ever appropriate (except when you are applying for a job as a clown, then it could bear bonus points for bringing your own).

kiiski• 12 years ago

On the other hand, wearing a clown costume when working as one might be a good idea. Not all documents that contain text are "job interviews".

Theodores• 12 years ago

In my experience it is a certain class of 'designers' that mock Comic Sans. These 'designers' exist a plenty in the wild even though they are not really 'designers':

1) Have Apple branded computer - check.

2) Do not know how to add content to a CMS - check.

3) Incapable of making the smallest tweak to CSS - check.

4) Move files around with a DropBox type gadget and have to get a 'developer' to 'FTP' that PDF to a server - check.

5) Only 'design' for Mac screens with a minimum resolution of Full HD even though the iphone has been out for a while - check.

6) Take inspiration from the latest site-du-jour in a me-too copy-and-paste way, bringing no blue sky thinking to the table - check.

7) Think in terms of CMYK and DPI at all times - check.

8) Never use client content in mock ups, go for Lorem Ipsum when shapes on a page are needed - check.

9) Throw a tantrum if a developer or client makes the slightest change from the cast in stone design mockups for a good reason such as usability - check.

10) Mock 'Comic Sans' - wow I am a real designer now!!!

etfb• 12 years ago

One out of ten for me - I loathe Comic Sans, but item 1-9 don't fit me at all.

acjohnson55• 12 years ago

I think people hate Comic Sans because of how many people used it inappropriately.

BasDirks• 12 years ago

The kerning is sloppy, see "f ox".

simias• 12 years ago

Yeah in italics it's all over the place. It doesn't bother me so much for the other variants.

craigrozynski3• 12 years ago

Windows Chrome appears to be ignoring the kerning tables in the True Type files, as 'fox' appears fine (for me) on everything else I'm testing on. If I've missed something please let me know.

hrrsn• 12 years ago

Looks a bit off in Safari 7 too.

antihero• 12 years ago

Looks completely off in Chrome on Linux, too.

codeka• 12 years ago

These were taken in IE on Windows. The italic version seems far worse than the normal version, but they're all a bit wonky IMO.

http://imgur.com/a/i5KjF

iso8859-1• 12 years ago

Are you sure it's ignoring them? mansr said the kerning table is incomplete. Could it be that you were just lucky on everything you tested on?

pcwalton• 12 years ago

Chrome doesn't shape text (ignoring kerning) if it contains entirely Latin text, as a questionable performance optimization that really reduces legibility of text (IMO). You can use "text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;" to force it to obey kerning.

JetSpiegel• 12 years ago

Looks good on Firefox/Linux.

zokier6• 12 years ago

Firefox/Linux here and looks bad: http://i.imgur.com/tYCJXxb.png

userbinator• 12 years ago

In other words, it's the opposite of keming.

lngric006• 12 years ago

Who wants to break it to them that it should be jumps not jumped :)

ChrisNorstrom• 12 years ago

Beautiful. Friendly. Human. More readable. You've redeemed one of the most hated fonts. You might want to fix up a few kerning issues and re-release but overall I love it. Feels friendly and personable.

If you can do the same with Papyrus you will be knighted.

mansr6• 12 years ago

Then all we'll need is a pair of augmented reality glasses that replace Papyrus when looking at restaurant menus.

malanj• 12 years ago

I agree with this (http://www.snapily.com/blog/comic-sans-why-all-the-hate/) and specifically the comment by the creator of Comic Sans: “If you love it, you don’t know much about typography,” Mr. Connare says. But, he adds, “if you hate it, you really don’t know much about typography, either, and you should get another hobby.” This meme was become a bit tiresome imho.

dirtyaura• 12 years ago

"Nothing says "local" like Comic Sans." (http://www.cooper.com/journal/2010/10/making_it_suck)

rainedin• 12 years ago

That's funny. I've always found it very readable. I have also ridiculed it in the past. Probably unfairly. These days I actually have a soft spot for the font.

I really like the update.

ChikkaChiChi• 12 years ago

For years Comic Sans has been recognized as being one of the most readable fonts. It even is considered to be a preferred font for those dealing with dyslexia (http://www.luzrello.com/Publications_files/assets2013.pdf).

This seems to be a classic case of form vs. function.

CanSpice2• 12 years ago

It is readable, but that's not why people dislike it. People dislike it because it gets used in inappropriate situations, like the aforementioned company-wide memos. It's fine when your kid's using it for a lemonade stand sign, but it's not when your Fortune 500 CEO sends out a monthly update.

ebbv3• 12 years ago

Few arguments are weaker than the creator of something dismissing all critics of it as ignorant.

The reality is Comic Sans is awful to look at. But the big problem is its ubiquity because amateurs are drawn to it, much like Papyrus.

ForHackernews• 12 years ago

The reality is Comic Sans is awful to look at.

Honest question: Why? What does this even mean? What makes a font "awful"? Surely this is a matter of personal taste and/or collective fashions?

I guess I'm an outlier since it's become cool to be a font nerd, but I really do not give a shit about typefaces. Except for difficult-to-read cursive scripts, pretty much everything looks fine. I find it difficult to conceive of how so many people get so worked up over this stuff.

rfrey• 12 years ago

"Few arguments are weaker than the creator of something dismissing all critics of it as ignorant."

Something comes close though. Dismissing critics as amateurs without further discussion, and also saying anyone who doesn't intuitively agree has no aesthetic sensibility (as is said in a child comment below). These substance free dismissals are equivalent to your criticism of the creator's comments.

nhebb• 12 years ago

I can't say I hate Comic Sans itself, but I remember getting company-wide emails sent out in Comic Sans, like flyers for a bake sale. At that point I realized that it's the people sending them that I despised, not the font. Plus, when my daughter was in 3rd grade, she used Comic Sans for everything, and suddenly it wasn't so ugly. Meanwhile, her teacher sent out weekly class notes in Kristen ITC. If unicorns shit fonts, I'm pretty sure it would be Kristen

basseq2• 12 years ago

If you want to fix the Comic Sans "problem" (in quotes as folks have varying views), you'd need to replace it as a default font on both Windows and OS X. Releasing a font, even a free one, makes almost no difference, as I'd bet 99.9% of the people who use Comic Sans "incorrectly" have no knowledge of how to do so. (Or impetus.)

THAT particular coup would make any font designer get a faraway look in their eyes.

factorialboy• 12 years ago

Nice, a monospace variant would be awesome!

dghf2• 12 years ago

Perfect for dogescript (https://github.com/remixz/dogescript).

zokier6• 12 years ago

I think this is too regular/rigid to be true replacement to Comic Sans.

symmetricsaurus2• 12 years ago

The oblique versions don't work on Windows(7). The letter shapes are severely deformed and the sizes are all over the place.

Otherwise I think it could be a usable font (if not for the prevailing opinion about comic sans).

craigrozynski3• 12 years ago

Hi, funny someone reported that issue about 6 hours ago. I re-upped the font files and it's looking fine for me now on Win 7, can you confirm?

symmetricsaurus2• 12 years ago

I have tried downloading it again and it still looks bad when previewing the font.

In Word it looks ok but I'm not sure if selecting Comic Neue and italics will use the oblique version or not?

The oblique *.ttf files where last modified March 14 in the file I downloaded.

dghf2• 12 years ago

"... perfect ... for ... writing passive aggressive office memos."

Marvellous.

wsc981• 12 years ago

I think this is going to be it's main selling point. I'm downloading the font as we speak :)

notindexed• 12 years ago

that kern ing

p4bl0• 12 years ago

That keming.

ozh• 12 years ago

th at keming indeed, and not only for italics :/

kalms• 12 years ago

I really like it, although the kerning definitely needs some fine tuning, as others have already mentioned. I have a hard time seeing it catching on though, but I hope I'm wrong! Good job!

binarymax• 12 years ago

This is headed in the right direction - but certain things still make the text look not quite right. The angle on some of the vertical lines is still off, giving an unsettling effect, and the curve on 'C/c' need to be smoothed out a bit. Now the next step is to write a worm that replaces comic sans with this on all machines.

craigrozynski3• 12 years ago

You will notice some issues if you use Windows Chrome, which doesn't render TTF well, particularly italics and obliques.

The fix for this is to include SVG font files. I excluded SVG as they're 'advertised' as only existing to support legacy iOS. Today I found out that's not entirely the case.

As for licensing, I provide the files for free for now and state on the site 'No attribution acquired'. I'm being vague because at this point I'm undecided whether to start selling it or not.

Thanks :D

idlewan2• 12 years ago

I would have appreciated if people in general chose a license before releasing font files.

Right now, I have no idea if I'm able to use the font for a website or for a mobile application. You may provide .woff and @font-face .css, but you don't explicitly say that redistribution through @font-face is allowed. I also have no idea if I can embed the font in a mobile application (phonegap/cordova) through @font-face.

That's what bugs me when designers provide 'for free' font files on a behance page, and what is also the case here: I am explicitly authorized to install the file locally, sometimes I am explicitly authorized to use it for 'commercial projects', and almost never am I explicitly allowed to redistribute it (which renders possible to use it on a website with @font-face or in a mobile or desktop app). As a developer, that sucks. That makes it seem like the 'free font' is for designers only (in the sense of: people that will only use the font to make an image, not a document, not a program).

These problems are of course already solved by the SIL open font license (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=OFL_web): with fonts released under this license, I am able to fix problems with the font (kerning etc...), I am able to redistribute it (@font-face, embed) AND the original designer is protected from people who want to sell the font ("The OFL allows the licensed fonts to be used, studied, modified and redistributed freely as long as they are not sold by themselves.").

If you want to sell the font, go ahead and do it! However, promoting it here as free font for a limited time to a crowd of people who have a good chance of being developers, well...

idlewan2• 12 years ago

I see you have updated the page and chosen to release the font in the public domain.

That's really cool! Thanks!

zokier6• 12 years ago

The fix for this is to include SVG font files

It never ceases to amaze me how much shit web-tech can pile together without toppling completely over.

samwillis• 12 years ago

This is a known limitation in Chrome [1], its because it uses GDI for writing type to screen rather than the newer DirectWrite API. They are working on it and there is just one remaining blocking bug to fix [2] before its all sorted.

[1] https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137692

[2] https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=331115

r12e• 12 years ago

I've always loved comic sans, it's like a family Labrador that just wants to have fun.

When more discerning people around me criticise it, I send them off to read: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole

Thanks for the refresh, OP. I can't wait to see where I can sneak this in.

stuaxo• 12 years ago

But does it work well in comics ?

BESebastian2• 12 years ago

"The squashed, wonky, and weird glyphs of Comic Sans have been beaten into shape while maintaining the honesty that made Comic Sans so popular."

Doesn't this directly make Comic Neue inferior to Comic Sans for people with dyslexia, one of the original fonts plus points.

Tyrannosaurs• 12 years ago

If your aim is to be friendly to people with dyslexia there are better fonts than Comic Sans though.

BESebastian2• 12 years ago

True, but I don't believe there's a more dyslexia friendly font in standard fonts which are available on more platforms.

Just a little gripe of mine, to be honest, but it's really one of the only positive things to the font, and having it removed in the process of attempting to improve the font is a bit funny to me.

Intermernet• 12 years ago

Just a quick note to the authors:

To test every letter in the English Language Alphabet use The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog, and not The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

Otherwise you miss the s.

EDIT: Some fun reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pangrams

delinka2• 12 years ago

The quick red fox jumps over the lazy brown dog

Both nouns get an adjective; foxes are usually red, dogs tend to be brown; Put simply, I just prefer this version.

wyager• 12 years ago

The quick red fox jumps over the lazy brown dog

It's hilarious how violently negative people's response to this suggestion was.

blt• 12 years ago

I really like InDesign's Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow!

izolate• 12 years ago

I'm partial to Foxy diva Jennifer Lopez wasn't baking my quiche.

nealabq• 12 years ago

Linux FAQ: Jump back wavy red z-ghost

(maybe the first time that's been written)

elwell• 12 years ago

I like Google's [0]:

   Grumpy wizards make toxic brew for the evil Queen and Jack.

[0] - http://www.google.com/fonts/

Zecc• 12 years ago

Amazingly few discotheques provide jukeboxes.

gamegoblin• 12 years ago

Alternatively, one could pluralize dog if one is set on using the past tense.

CanSpice2• 12 years ago

Aside: If you think that Wikipedia page is fun reading, you may also enjoy Ella Minnow Pea, a novel by Mark Dunn.

Splendor• 12 years ago

I'm partial to "Pack my red box with five dozen quality jugs".

Turing_Machine• 12 years ago

I like "Pack my box with five dozen liquor jugs".

aaronetz• 12 years ago

Slightly off-topic, but can someone recommend a good book about typography? I mean more about the history of typography, less about how to design new fonts.

mattlutze• 12 years ago

An excellent read is Bringhurst's "The Elements of Typographic Style"[0], for both history and theory.

0: http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Brin...

elektronaut• 12 years ago

And for the prose as well. My favourite quote:

“A man who would letterspace lower case would steal sheep, Frederic Goudy liked to say. If this wisdom needs updating, it is chiefly to add that a woman who would letterspace lower case would steal sheep as well.”

1_player• 12 years ago

I really enjoyed this online book, http://practicaltypography.com, and the typesetting is gorgeous.

sevkih• 12 years ago

should've made it a banana stand, there is always money in the banana stand

Wohui• 12 years ago

"The squashed, wonky, and weird glyphs of Comic Sans have been beaten into shape while maintaining the honesty that made Comic Sans so popular."

It's half as honest. It's dilute Comic Sans. It's the diet coke of casual.

davexunit• 12 years ago

Proprietary font? No, thanks.

ivanca• 12 years ago

FYI "I-hate-comic-sans" is better and is permanently free: http://www.dafont.com/i-hate-comic-sans.font

Also, Rondouillar: http://www.dafont.com/rondouillard.font?l[]=1

Tloewald• 12 years ago

The metrics on this font are a bit weird. E.g. as the type gets bolder it seems to tighten up vertically.

_ak• 12 years ago

People keep listing alternatives, here's another one: Comic Jens. http://www.netzallee.de/extra/comic-jens-en

It's even CC-licensed.

sph• 12 years ago

As a programmer, I really love Cosmic Sans Neue Mono (which I don't think is related to this typeface) -- now renamed to Fastasque Sans Mono:

https://github.com/belluzj/fantasque-sans

You either hate it or love it, and I find it gorgeous on Sublime Text.

nollidge2• 12 years ago

I actually really like this... Consolas still seems to have better hinting, but this is pretty cool.

LaSombra• 12 years ago

Thank you so much, I love it!

philh• 12 years ago

The v/ν similarity is bringing up unpleasant memories of squinting at blackboards containing both those symbols, as well as u and μ for good measure.

But mostly, I think that font looks pretty nice.

bsimpson• 12 years ago

I can't tell the difference between the v/v in your comment.

IbJacked• 12 years ago

Thanks for the link. The first thing I did on their site was skim through the variations, looking for a mono version :)

duongkai• 12 years ago

It does not support unicode characters.

freshyill• 12 years ago

You know, there are, and have been many, many good comic fonts out there. Blambot sells them gives many others away for free. This is where actual comic book creators go for fonts.

Anytime I see someone insisting on using Comic Sans, I gently inform them that Comic Sans isn't even a good comic font, and point them to Blambot, where they can get better ones.

http://blambot.com

GFischer• 12 years ago

Really cool, thanks for sharing. Now I must think of where can I use those fonts :) (not in the company website, surely :P )

MartinCron• 12 years ago

I tend to use comic or handwriting fonts for annotated screenshots when explaining visual or UI/UX things to people. It makes the distinction between the screenshot and my annotations sharper.

There, now you have an excuse.

joshdance• 12 years ago

I like it.

currysausage2• 12 years ago

What is "Comic Neue" supposed to mean?

It's "Neue Helvetica", not "Helvetica Neue". It's only called "Helvetica Neue" in lists for the sake of alphabetical sorting.

German "Neue" always stands before the noun. "New Helvetica" -> "Neue Helvetica". The generic form is "Neu", so "Helvetica New" -> "Helvetica Neu".

talmand• 12 years ago

You're assuming too much. It doesn't have to mean anything; the creator of a font can name it whatever they wish.

currysausage2• 12 years ago

It's obviously a reference to "Neue Helvetica", and that is the font's name, not "Helvetica Neue", as too many people seem to believe. Just wanted to point that out.

skywhopper• 12 years ago

Public domain license? Awesome! Typographers after my own heart. We need more people to be willing to release their work into the public domain. I'd love to see new open-source projects choose public domain over Apache- or BSD-style permissive licenses.

MCarusi• 12 years ago

I've never had a reason to use Comic Sans in any particular project, but the way people talk about it you'd think it was a mass murderer. It's just a typefont, guys.

akdetrick• 12 years ago

Comic Sans does serve one good purpose; it's a dyslexia-friendly typeface. It's nice that Comic Neue preserves some of the letter "hints" (ie. the "b" and "d" glyphs have slightly different bottom terminals).

Although if you're trying to optimize specifically for dyslexia, you'd be better off with something like OpenDyslexic [1].

[1] http://opendyslexic.org/about/

Pxtl2• 12 years ago

It's bikeshedding since I know nothing about design, but I feel like the name is a bad fit. Comic Sans looks more like a comic speech-bubble script than Comic Neue. Comic Neue looks like a better hand-printed font, but it would look worse in a speech bubble.

gahahaha• 12 years ago

It might not be a better alternative to Comic Sans for /that/ particular use case - but for most situations where Comic Sans is used today, Comic Neue would be an enormous improvement.

Pxtl2• 12 years ago

Yes, but it's a bit of a misnomer, isn't it? I mean, it's not really Comic Neue is it? You wouldn't use this for an actual comic.

Comic Sans, meet Comic Neue

Related Stories