This coupon code is a slap in the face

http://justinjackson.ca/the-coupon-code-is-a-slap-in-the-face/

by mijustin • 13 years ago

431 245 13 years ago

justinjackson.ca

free652• 13 years ago

Company logic: Because why make a discount for you if you're buying anyway.

Coupons codes are usually part of ad campaigns.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

Exactly. This is why more companies should follow Gumroad's lead: they let you send out a link with the code, but don't display the coupon field in your checkout form.

johnward6• 13 years ago

I think this is the best way to handle coupons. That way you aren't enticing people to leave the check out process once they've committed to buying. You also reward loyal customers with special links. I mean all you have to do is make the coupon field hidden and pass a get var.

brianbreslin2• 13 years ago

Did no-one learn anything from JCPenney debacle? People LOVE coupons. I've never seen a coupon code field, where I didn't find a coupon and felt like I was getting hoodwinked as this author seems to suggest.

Coupon codes are useful for promos and such. Not every customer pays the same amount, thats how the world works.

pbj• 13 years ago

I second this. There have been plenty of studies that show consumers love the idea of savings, even if they're just an illusion. People would rather pay $20 for a $25 item knowing they saved $5 rather than just paying $20 with no savings.

johnward6• 13 years ago

I think this is how Kohls works. Anytime we buy something there the receipt says like "total $30. You saved $83.26!". I know I really didn't save anything because I wouldn't pay $100+ for the things I purchased anyway and they wouldn't sell them for that much, but there is some effect to seeing things like that.

larrys4• 13 years ago

"thats how the world works"

I love that. In start up land people always seem to ignore things that have been done successfully for years thinking that certainly there is something wrong and legacy business must be making huge mistakes and throwing out their money on things just because "it's the way it's always been done".

The problem of course is understanding which one of those things are wrong and which actually work (to which you really don't need studies) to prove.

liquidise• 13 years ago

I think you are missing the perspective of the article. Coupons (and their online codes) are a great tool for the recipients.

The article is from the perspective of a customer without a coupon. In that case, the presence of the coupon code field actually makes you less likely to buy or convert. This article isn;t blaming the methodology. It is saying the status-quo presentation is poor and needs improvement.

ruswick4• 13 years ago

They can go online and search for coupons. It never takes me more than two or three minutes to find a coupon through Retailmenot and another aggregator. If no coupon exist or if they're all expired, then I'll pay full price. There is no downside for me. I don't understand why this equivalent to a "slap in the face." Frankly, this vastly improves my shopping experience through occasionally saving me money, while never exposing me to any risk or increasing the prices that I pay.

brianbreslin2• 13 years ago

oh i got the perspective. I just think the guy is being overly dramatic. So much of this stuff is overly subjective anyway. If he came in already with intent to purchase sees possible savings but can't find them, he is unlikely to leave because his mind was already expecting to pay X.

On one of our products http://pressbackup.com we have a coupon code, if customers can't find one, and they email me, I will generate one just for them. Those customers stick around for a LONG time.

thufry• 13 years ago

In the analogous retail situation, with physical coupons, there is no "coupon code" field -- the cashier does not ask you "Do you have any coupons today?" Even worse would be for them to ask "Do you have the $10 off coupon on this dog food?" you'd feel like you lost $10. If you have a coupon, you present it to the cashier, and other customers aren't made aware of the fact that they're not getting the best price.

nwh• 13 years ago

I've had this a lot actually, to the point of absolutely ridiculous coupons that gave me 40%, even 75% off at one point. It's a pain in the ass to have to Google around for a code that lets me pay the same as everybody else.

ronaldx• 13 years ago

This illustrates a case where coupon codes are working as they are supposed to - if it's too much of a pain in the ass for you to Google, the retailer will be happy for you to pay the higher price.

Price Discrimination 101.

croisillon• 13 years ago

This is not always the case, a coupon is not always to get a fraction discount but can be a way to redeem a voucher. Since it's a similar worklfow, websites display it a similar way, leading to this misinterpretation.

ScottWhigham4• 13 years ago

Correct. I'm guessing English is not your first language and thus the previous downvote(s). We use "voucher codes" this way - we don't have to educate the customer at all; they get it, which leads to a happier customer experience and less customer service headaches.

rthomas62• 13 years ago

Everybody here knows about retailmenot.com, right? For the majority of places, you'll find a good repository of coupon codes without having to sift through Google results.

nodata• 13 years ago

I can't remember the last time I found a decent coupon code there.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

I think it's bad customer service to force someone to Google for a coupon code; you're also running a risk (as a site owner) that the person will simply abandon their cart.

See also this thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6204261

I like petercooper's idea of pre-populating the coupon field with a default code.

mcintyre19943• 13 years ago

I wonder if a competitor could grab the sale by purchasing ads against "<Your Company> Coupons" claiming to be 20% cheaper or something.

aestra3• 13 years ago

Really? You must not do much online shopping. There is tons of times there isn't any coupon code that applies to what I'm buying and then I just feel kinda cheated. Just a little. Then there's tons of times there is no coupons at all for the site, maybe just like $10 off your $100 purchase of <very specific product> and that's it.

rthomas62• 13 years ago

Well, to give specific examples of coupons I found there, I usually get 20% off when I order Papa Johns, and I got 2 months free web hosting from Digital Ocean. For Amazon, you're right; they don't usually have anything good for Amazon. For smaller places, my experience has been that they have nice coupon codes if they exist.

mmatants• 13 years ago

Honestly, I never noticed myself feeling that way. Is this really losing that many sales when it comes down to metrics?

To me, coupons are always seen as temporary gifts from the company to butter up my loyalty. So paying full price still feels fair.

But again, it's all about metrics. It would be great to see how different audiences respond.

cdjk3• 13 years ago

It causes noticeable dropoff in stores. I don't remember the numbers, but we did an A/B test and noticed a difference. We switched to referrer URLs for discounts instead. I wanted to try an experiment of putting a bunch of low value discount codes out there that would have been easy to find, and see how that affects dropoff, but we never did that.

chcleaves• 13 years ago

If you put forth a little bit of effort you can find any code on the Internet - it sets you apart from the shoppers who don't care and won't take the time to look for one (which is the majority of America) hence why retailers still consistently leak codes out there.

joshuahedlund• 13 years ago

Has anybody actually done any A/B testing on this sort of thing, or are we just making competing assertions about how slapped in the face we personally feel or not?

Edit: Thanks, some pretty good results out there.

martin-adams3• 13 years ago

Not A/B testing per-se, but for a client of mine we tried it out and had lots of phone calls asking how to get a discount code. It just caused confusions and more customer service work.

FooBarWidget• 13 years ago

I can't remember the details, but I did read an article a while ago in which Microsoft or Amazon or something increased their conversion rate significantly by hiding the coupon field.

jeremybencken6• 13 years ago

There's a professor at Vanderbilt who published this paper on the topic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6205769) in the Journal of Product & Brand Management.

Providing a code and its attendant price reduction clearly had positive effects on perceptions of fairness and satisfaction when compared to the control group.

...prompting for a code in the absence of having one had negative effects on fairness, satisfaction, and completion when compared to the control. As would be expected from these findings, the three groups were ranked in the predicted order (code > control > no code) for all dependent variables, including intention to repatronize and recommend the online store.

Equity theory, then, becomes an alternative explanation for reactions to code provision and non-provision... the Web buyer without a code experiences the additional impact of the inequity perceived if others are imagined to have a code, are selectively provided one, or are simply viewed as "special" in some sense.

ScottWhigham4• 13 years ago

Cool - thanks for sharing. I'm interested in A/B testing done by "folks like us", not a college professor who "guided users through a hypothetical web store experience" like the paper talks about. Interesting though - I'm not trying to be snarky or rude BTW - I like it, just not a "definitive source" for this type of work IMO.

nmcfarl2• 13 years ago

This could be an argument for doing what the Gap Brand sites do and sticking a banner with a coupon code in it at the top of every single page. Then everyone feels special.

Though I do suspect it A/B tests differently :)

johnward6• 13 years ago

Interesting. There is a site I shop at a few times a year. They always post the discount codes on the homepage so anyone can use them. It's things like save $X when you spend at least $Y. I wondered why not just automatically discount the sale. Maybe it's something to do with the positive effects of feeling like you got a deal.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

Yup, there are stats here: http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/11363/do-promo-codes-o...

"In one usability test, removing the coupon code field increased overall conversion from 3.8% to 5.1% (an increase of 34%)."

Raphmedia2• 13 years ago

It's quite the opposite if you ask me. After you spent 15 minutes looking online for that coupon AND you find one that gives you that little 10%...

Well, it makes you happy and probably makes it so that you really will proceed with the purchase. "Hey, I spent a looonnng 5 minutes searching AND I got a 10% discount. Why wouldn't I proceed with the purchase?"

coldtea2• 13 years ago

Have you done this? Because the studies say the opposite.

For one, you might NOT find the coupon after those "15 minutes". What percentage of users will find it?

Second, if you have to go searching online for 15 minutes, you might be distracted enough to never return, or find something else to buy.

Raphmedia2• 13 years ago

Good points. I am a bit of a power user and you shouldn't ever market toward power users. Unless you are something like Thinkgeek or HN.

johnward6• 13 years ago

If I don't find it I get upset. I've actually not purchased because there was a coupon field and I couldn't find an active coupon. I'll just wait until they have an active coupon or buy it somewhere else.

JimmaDaRustla• 13 years ago

Agree, but I love this too much: http://serverbear.com/coupons

leknarf• 13 years ago

Outside of ad campaigns, there's another case where coupon codes are useful. If you have a moderately expensive product and an actual sales team, you can use the coupon field to let the sales team make one-off special deals for individual customers. That's useful for unusually large orders (buy 10 get 1 free) or simply if you need to apologize for some sort of error (we're sorry our site was down, here's $50 off your next order).

Coupon codes are an easily programmable solution to a wide variety of business problems. They're particularly useful for problems that are difficult to predict in advance.

cdjk3• 13 years ago

True. You can get the same thing with referrer URLs that apply a coupon code behind the scenes, e.g. example.com/store/fifty_off. The logic is the same, you're just hiding the troublesome coupon code field.

drone• 13 years ago

Actually, that is more difficult - trying to explain an alternative workflow to a customer over the phone is not nearly as easy as it sounds. "Enter this coupon code in the field you see on your screen," is much easier than "Ok, type in this new URL exactly, now, once you've done that, add this to your shopping cart, now go to checkout..."

I've had to watch a lot of this sort of thing happen, and customers "understand" coupon codes natively at this point - they require practically no instruction. Getting the customer through the transaction as quickly as possible is one of the prime desires for any e-commerce site that also takes phone orders, and coupon codes have been, in my experience, most effective for that.

Now, if you want to start a trend of re-training customers to expect specialized URLs they use before entering checkout -- then I'll be more than happy to switch over to that once customers expect it.

However, I feel there's a sort of paradox here: Providing discounts to new customers helps create new transactions. The more steps required to complete the transaction, the more like the customer is to abandon the transaction. If a coupon code causes customers without one to be more likely to abandon then it makes sense to require a separate step from the normal checkout workflow to use it, thereby increasing the rate of abandoned transactions.

ebbv3• 13 years ago

This is a pretty ridiculous complaint.

First of all, giving everyone a referral URL works great in a web only world but what if you're advertising on a Podcast (or gasp print or radio), is it easier to tell people to type in www.mysite.com/coupon to their browser or is it easier to tell people to enter COUPON at checkout?

Secondly, the amount of people who are going to have this adverse reaction to the mere existence of the coupon code field is vanishingly small. Most customers who don't have a code will just ignore it and move on (and actually many who have been told about a code will not even use it) only a small minority will bother searching for a code to enter when they don't have one.

Whatever web site had a coupon code field that made you this angry probably had at least 20 much worse UI violations they should prioritize above trying to eliminate the coupon field.

mattdanger• 13 years ago

I disagree. Coupon code forms make some customers second guess themselves at checkout. The fewer steps required to purchase something result in higher completed orders. See Amazon one-click

bennyg2• 13 years ago

I disagree with the main part of your sentiment. I think they're already there after they've filled in billing/shipping info, so seeing the blank coupon code field is actually not a deterrent at that point. It's just as easy to skip that field and press the button for Checkout as it is when that field isn't there. The coupon field just adds the possibility of getting a better deal with some Google searches.

sarreph• 13 years ago

Just on your point about Podcasts - you could use a short URL (works in print too)? (edit, e.g. tiny.cc/[shortcode])

Or... if you're feeling really adventurous, use an audio hyperlink ;) http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/08/apple-developing-audio-hype...

kalleboo• 13 years ago

Stamps.com advertise on the radio+podcasts and they added an icon to their front page http://www.stamps.com

Joe-Z• 13 years ago

I think this is exactly what Steve Krug refers to as a religious debate in "Don't make me think!". The only way to know for sure is user-testing.

narcissus• 13 years ago

I don't really have a comment one way or another about what you said here, however... comparing UI violations to something that reminds someone that they're not 'one of the cool kids' that knows the 'secret code to saving money' is a bit apples to oranges, I think.

One might offend your eyes, the other (can be) more personal.

mikeash• 13 years ago

I could kind of imagine it in a world where the concept of coupons was invented on the web and e-commerce "coupon code" fields were the only place people encountered it.

But of course that's not the world we live in. Our mailboxes get stuffed full of coupons. We get them on our receipts. We get them in our e-mail. We get them in newspapers and magazines and even attached to the very products we're buying.

We're all used to the concept. Roughly nobody is getting upset at the idea that there might be some coupon out there that they don't happen to have at the moment.

uxp• 13 years ago

Have you ever gone to the grocer and been stopped by the checker just before you hand them or swipe your credit card to ask if you're sure you don't have any coupons for any of the items in your cart?

If you have the checker might have grabbed a copy of the Sunday insert they had sitting there and scanned the $1 off coupon for that one item you happened to pick up but didn't know was actually on sale, or 95% of the time the checker doesn't even bother you about such things. By offering a coupon code box on your checkout page, you're effectively saying "Hey, we might have put a coupon in last Sunday's newspaper, but obviously you aren't special enough to have received it and we aren't going to be nice by offering it to everyone to gain customer loyalty."

If you want to do an affiliate-type discount for a single item, do it through URL parameters stored into a cookie and consumed at checkout. If you want to do a Sunday-coupon-type discount for anyone willing to go find a coupon, offer it to everyone: "Do you have any coupons? Our latest promotions can be found at ..."

Edit: and if doing a Sunday-type coupon, have the box be conditionally shown. If your current promotion is for 10% off the purchase of a Foo widget, don't show it when the customer only has Bar sprockets in their cart. You're just losing conversion at that point.

purplelobster• 13 years ago

Internet coupons are different from physical coupons. You can potentially find internet coupons by searching the web for 20 minutes, while if you're at the checkout at the grocery store, you're not going to go all the way home, look through the trash to find some coupons that were mailed to you a week prior and promptly thrown out.

The difference is the knowledge that there is a coupon for the particular item I'm buying, and the (in)convenience of finding that coupon.

I'm convinced that many, many people are "upset" about the idea that they're missing out on coupons. My wife is one of those people, she can't buy anything on the internet without searching her coupon sites first. And I know a lot of people like her. For me, it takes a conscious decision that "this is not worth it, I'll just pay whatever the price is and save the time and energy".

anigbrowl2• 13 years ago

Yes, and I am sick to the back teeth of this crap in my mailbox and encouraging me to keep bits of paper in my wallet yadda yadda. Coupons suck ass and I make a point of preferring retailers that don't use them.

BTW this isn't 'the world that we live in.' This is a largely American phenomenon. In many European countries you can tell the mail carrier that you don't accept junk mail.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

This PayPal/Comscore study found that 27% of potential buyers abandoned their shopping cart because they had to go look for a coupon code.

Another study found that removing the promo code box improved conversion from 3.8% to 5.1%

Source: http://ux.stackexchange.com/a/11365

(There's also some good shopping cart / checkout UX tips in there too)

ja272• 13 years ago

I've abandoned a couple purchases because of that coupon code box. I go search for one and realize that they do regular promotions so I wait for one, usually to never come back and make a purchase.

ebbv3• 13 years ago

At my company we've tested having the coupon box automatically filled in vs. not automatically filled in and we found that conversions were no higher by automatically filling it in.

And if you want to be focused purely on the bottom line; conversions were just as high without it automatically filled in but coupon usage was notably lower; meaning automatically filling in the coupon was just giving away money.

jjindev• 13 years ago

Could the coupon box "train" customers to jump on deals when offered? Perhaps that is the seller's hope, and that it is about a relationship and revenue stream into the future.

(I'm not saying this "training" is a net win for the seller, but I can see "loyalty" as one of their goals.)

larrys4• 13 years ago

"This PayPal/Comscore study found that 27% of potential buyers abandoned their shopping cart because they had to go look for a coupon code.

Another study found that removing the promo code box improved conversion from 3.8% to 5.1%"

Didn't read the study but I wonder if those numbers take into account the positive benefit of using the coupon box.

In other words you do a promotion offering a discount to increase sales. The result of the promotion is an increase of x but also a decrease of y because of abandonment. It seems (by the way you phrase the summary) that the study only concluded the negative aspect and not the upside to the coupon code. (Once again I didn't read the study so I am just asking.)

umsm2• 13 years ago

This is just one example. The problem is that different sites / products attract different types of persons. In our ecommerce site, we noticed almost no difference in conversions.

We use coupon codes to track our marketing efforts.

gcb02• 13 years ago

I abandoned a merchant, not just my shopping cart because of that.

advanceautoparts or something. was buying from them, got to the checkout, searched for coupons, found that they have 25%+ coupons going on year around.

I can't possibly buy from a site that has all it's prices upmarked by at least 25% to begin with.

ahoyhere2• 13 years ago

One guy doing a split-test on one client -- the second one you cite -- is not what I would call "a study": http://www.conversiondoctor.com/conversion-blog/coupon-codes...

Look at other reasons people abandoned carts in that PayPal/Comscore study:

Wanted to comparison shop: 37%

Lack of money: 36%

Wanted to look for a coupon: 27%

Wanted to shop offline: 26%

Couldn’t find preferred pay option: 24%

Item unavailable at checkout: 23%

Couldn’t find customer support: 22%

Security concerns: 21%

http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Sad-Tale-of-Abandoned-Shopp...

When you look at the big picture findings from this survey, it makes you realize: 20-40% of people will abandon a cart for ANY reason.

And none of these "studies" have looked into what the conversion rates for people who DO use coupons are. When you introduce a coupon to a good customer, or at the right moment, does that INCREASE conversions? I'd would bet good money the answer is yes. And I would bet you money that that increase outweighs the seemingly random "25% of people quit a cart for every possible reason."

There is no such thing as a one-sided effect.

BTW -- abandoning a cart is not the same thing as quitting a checkout in progress. Beginning the checkout process is a much bigger indicator of intention than putting stuff in your cart. Many people just put stuff in their cart as a kind of shopping list, or "I might want to look at this more later." Which is no doubt why cart abandonment rates are so high.

coldtea2• 13 years ago

First of all, giving everyone a referral URL works great in a web only world but what if you're advertising on a Podcast (or gasp print or radio), is it easier to tell people to type in www.mysite.com/coupon to their browser or is it easier to tell people to enter COUPON at checkout?

Only lots of the companies that uses this practice never advertise on podcasts or radio.

Secondly, the amount of people who are going to have this adverse reaction to the mere existence of the coupon code field is vanishingly small.

Citation needed.

Most customers who don't have a code will just ignore it and move on

Of course, since there is nothing else they can do. The issue is if this leaves a bad taste on their mouth or not.

Whatever web site had a coupon code field that made you this angry probably had at least 20 much worse UI violations they should prioritize above trying to eliminate the coupon field.

He could not care less about other UI violations compared to feeling a second-rate customer that has to pay more.

cmdkeen• 13 years ago

Or just don't show the box during period where there is no valid coupon code for any of the selected items? Half the complaint, and associated failed transactions, is around there not even being a currently running coupon campaign anyway.

But then why have coupons and just offer money off to everyone?

yogo• 13 years ago

But then why have coupons and just offer money off to everyone?

Why would you offer a discount to people when you can make more money by not offering a discount? To me I see the coupon as a reward to the people that know about it. Plus if it's a promotion you are probably increasing the volume and taking away the price comparison for people that like to save. Plus maybe some loyalty knowing those guys always haave coupons.

Take GoDaddy for instance. They always have promotions running. If someone just wanted to purchase a domain they would go on there and pay $12 but if they wanted to save money they could drive the price down to as low as $2.49 (in some cases). They are not losing money at that price and will even make more in the long run since they didn't lose you to namecheap and for the rest of the time you own it with them you will be paying $8-10 with the convenience of auto-renew.

megablast• 13 years ago

This complaint comes from the discussion about affiliate marketing on this site yesterday. A large number of affiliates make there money with coupon sites apparently, taking advantage of this exact scenario. People see coupon, then they google for it.

If you think this blog post looks familiar, it is.

frogpelt• 13 years ago

I would argue that remembering and entering a coupon is just as hard as remembering and entering a sub-directory name in a URL. In fact, finding the coupon code box can sometimes be a pain. It's not always on the first page in the ordering process.

bennesvig• 13 years ago

"This is a pretty ridiculous complaint."

People are different. I do what he described every single time I see the coupon code when I wouldn't have thought about searching for one. I would have been happily enjoying my purchase instead to cruising junky ad filled sites looking for a discount.

It's simple loss aversion. Instead of people seeing their purchase as a gain, they think about what they're losing by not having a coupon.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

That's right: it's about the psychology post-purchase. How does the buyer feel? Do they feel good about their experience, or is there a nagging feeling of having missed out on a deal?

This research paper studies those effects: http://www2.owen.vanderbilt.edu/mike.shor/research/promo/jpb...

martin-adams3• 13 years ago

It's interesting. I sometimes sigh when I see a discount box because I know I'm going to spend the next 10 minutes searching for a code.

For me, not having the box would have meant I "knew" I was getting the best deal. Having the box and failing to find a code means I "failed" at getting the best deal, even if there wasn't a better deal to be had.

Finding a code sometimes makes me think, "am I allowed to use it?" but of course, I'd try anyway and yes, can be pleased if I get the magical 10-15% off.

jdmaresco• 13 years ago

I do the same thing. The article described my sentiments exactly... I feel like I'm missing out on something. Especially for a bigger purchase, a 10% off coupon can save $100-200 and is worth waiting for sometimes

jusben13693• 13 years ago

"This is a pretty ridiculous complaint" - No offense, but this is a ridiculous complaint. You totally sidestepped the point of the article - what message are you sending to your full price paying customer?

Imagine you're side by side with a guy in two checkout lines and by chance you have the same 6 items. Both of you get rung up and it comes out to $100 on the display. At that point, you reach for your card. The other guy though, reaches over to the cashier and does a wiggly weird handshake. The cashier smiles knowingly, hits a button and boom it says $86. You've got no recourse to complain. The items you picked up were clearly marked and you accepted the total amount. You start to notice how every 5th person does the goofy weird handshake? Feel like shopping there again next time?

dminor2• 13 years ago

Imagine you're in a store and the person in front of you pulls out a coupon and gets a discount.

But you don't need to imagine it because it happens all the time and you still shop in stores.

ruswick4• 13 years ago

I see people use coupons all the time. By the time I get to the register, I've already effectively "accepted the total amount." Coupons don't bother me.

Why would they? Moreover, why would I want to complain?

Are coupons really that egregious to you?

kzrdude• 13 years ago

It's not a complaint, it's advice for online retailers.

skrebbel• 13 years ago

When I'm rich, I'm going to spam local radio stations with ads that spell out affiliate link URLs.

pessimizer2• 13 years ago

mysite.com/podcast-name-or-one-word-punchline-to-something-funny seems easy enough.

auctiontheory3• 13 years ago

I do not think "ridiculous" means what you think it means.

1) I personally have abandoned checkout carts when I realized they offered big discounts and I didn't have one right then. 2) Alternatively, the coupon code box has very often reminded me to go find a coupon - and pay less than I was already willing to pay.

My behavior is normal human behavior. You can debate whether (1) is "logical," but the checkout process should maximize profit from real human beings, not theoretically logical ones.

GoNB• 13 years ago

It's your complaint that is ridiculous.

The checkout page should have the lowest friction possible. Coupon boxes make people hunt for them. Anytime a customer leaves your store there's a chance they may not come back. This applies to physical stores too.

is it easier to tell people to type in www.mysite.com/coupon to their browser or is it easier to tell people to enter COUPON at checkout?

I hear URLs spelled out in radio ads all the time. If this were 1996 you might have a valid point, but not in 2013.

sp3322• 13 years ago

I dropped my car off for state inspection by my usual mechanic. Then I found a coupon in the local paper for $10 off an inspection at that place. When I went to pay, I showed the coupon but the mechanic told me, "oh I already did that. You're a regular, we take care of you!" I don't think I've ever seen a website that could do that.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

Yes. Think of how this improves customer loyalty overtime, as opposed to feeling like you're constantly getting a bad deal.

bennyg2• 13 years ago

Imagine if a site did that haha.

"We've been tracking you, you're a regular. Here's 5% off for spending ~13min per day on our website from IP 192.168.0.1"

aestra3• 13 years ago

I think they are talking about e-commerce sites which have logons and order histories i.e. Amazon and Newegg.

mijustin9• 13 years ago

There are sites that do that!

rorrr22• 13 years ago

Expecting complete privacy and anonymity from a website that you give your credit card info, your full name, your address makes zero sense

burkemw3• 13 years ago

Doesn't Amazon do the opposite? Charge less to newbies so they get hooked and charging more to the regulars because they're hooked.

aestra3• 13 years ago

Same with most subscription services like ISPs and phone companies. Get you in with a low cost deal to get your hooked. Here's the trick though, you can call and just ask for a better rate, tell them X company is looking to give you a better deal, but you want to keep them. I did it with my DSL.

hbe_• 13 years ago

Can anyone confirm they do this? Would hate to feel punished for loyalty.

kamjam2• 13 years ago

Really? So how do they distinguish I am a new user or not, if I am not logged in? From IP address? Maybe I need to reset my router, get a new IP, visit Amazon in private browsing mode and then doing the search so I have the price before logging in...?

mhaymo• 13 years ago

Citation needed.

wikwocket• 13 years ago

Many websites offer discounts to their regulars. You could mimic this specific behavior by automatically applying a coupon code to checkout baskets of regulars, with some text explaining how much you love them.

Of course, you might want to let users know that you do this, and that means emailing them, and that makes this more of an emailed coupon offer, which is back to being more like a traditional coupon approach, but either way hopefully you can give your regulars some warm fuzzies.

IvyMike• 13 years ago

I'm a Zappos "VIP" which means I get a few tiny benefits when I shop at the "vip.zappos.com" website. So at least one site does do the "regulars get a bonus" thing.

(It also means I bought too many shoes at some point in my life.)

umsm2• 13 years ago

Too many shoes? There's no such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJcw4yoIseo

njharman• 13 years ago

Amazon does stuff like that all the time. They just don't tell you. And it's not always an adjustment in your favor.

ig1• 13 years ago

I've seen cases where having a coupon code actually increased conversions more than just discounting the product for everyone. The people who searched for the (easily found) coupon were far more likely to completely the purchase process because they felt like they were getting a deal.

If you're using voucher codes you shouldn't just use one approach based upon an article like this, rather you should be A/B testing different variants and see what performs for your startup. Your customers aren't the same as everyone else and you shouldn't expect them to behave the same.

dminor2• 13 years ago

Your customers aren't the same as everyone else and you shouldn't expect them to behave the same.

Yes! In our case we found it had no effect on conversions and customer service calls increased from people asking about where to enter the (expired) code they found somewhere on the net.

Our solution was to keep the coupon code box and seed a $1 discount code on one of the coupon sites.

We stumble across these wild A/B claims from time to time and in almost every case we've seen no difference in conversions.

jeremybencken6• 13 years ago

This may not be rational, but there's some research showing this is a widespread phenomenon. Mostly, it has to do with a sense of fairness. Coupon codes can make consumers feel like the merchant is being unfair, which leads to dissatisfaction.

The solution: don't show the coupon code field or make it extremely easy for consumers to get coupon codes. I've noticed more and more stores put their coupon codes right in the header while you're browsing. So it's impossible NOT to get a coupon.

http://www2.owen.vanderbilt.edu/mike.shor/research/promo/jpb... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6205769)

hollerith• 13 years ago

more and more stores put their coupon codes right in the header while you're browsing

By "in the header" you mean on the search-engine results page; don't you?

jeremybencken6• 13 years ago

actually, no, although that's an interesting place to do it. as a few others have commented, merchants like Newegg and Gap use something like a HelloBar to highlight their coupons in the header nav.

tjansen• 13 years ago

Simple solution: don't call it coupon, call it gift card.

auctiontheory3• 13 years ago

Genius!

ohwp• 13 years ago

Happened to me: I had the code, but forgot to enter it. So afterward I contacted customer service and they just said: sorry there is nothing we can do for you.

Do you think I will be a returning customer? -no

chmike• 13 years ago

In France one of the biggest high tech ware reseller use this coupon promotiona codes. These coupon codes are ditributed through it's own promotional mailing list.

Il you subscribe to their special offer mailing lists you get their coupon codes. Of corse ou get a slap in your face when you see the coupn field box. But this is also where you should say how to get coupon codes.

Propose a subscription to your special coupon offering mailing list where you can also ommunicate about your product. This is opt in advertisement.

throwit1979• 13 years ago

Initial customer acquisition costs money. A lot of money. Once you have a happy customer for repeat business, you reward and entice them with discounts, usually via email newsletter.

As a first time customer, you are not being "cheated". You are just a lot more expensive.

johnward6• 13 years ago

It doesn't matter if that's how it is. What matters is how consumers perceive it. If they think they are being cheated then who are you to say they are not? I don't care how much it costs for a retailer to nab me as a customer.

dchest2• 13 years ago

When launching new order pages a few years ago, I was bothered by the same thing and asked my e-commerce company to add a checkbox, which you have to click in order to show coupon field:

https://blogjet.cleverbridge.com/9/?scope=checkout&product=1...

It's not an ideal solution, but I believe this additional step helps a bit.

ScottWhigham4• 13 years ago

Interesting - I like it. When you say it "helps a bit", what makes you feel that way? If I'm going to change my cart, it needs to be something simple like what you've done.

dchest2• 13 years ago

(I haven't A/B tested this, so I can only rely on intuition and feedback from other people.) I think that the honesty plays a role here. If there's an empty space that says "put a coupon there", people will be looking for a way to fill it, even if they don't have a coupon -- because this box invites them to. However, if there's a checkbox saying "click here if you have a coupon code" (although my checkbox says something different), it means that by clicking it people will lie, and not everyone wants to do it.

Now that I think of it, maybe even better strategy would be to buy a domain "blabla-coupon-code.com" and put there a coupon code for your thing with a small discount. People who like to search the web for coupons will be satisfied ;)

mcintyre19943• 13 years ago

That's a pretty neat solution. One thing though, my laptop hasn't got a great screen and when I tried clicking the checkbox the input field that appeared was very very light - my immediate thought was that there's just an apply button. I know this stuff's a bit of a black art, but it might be worth A/B testing a less faint input field?

raldi• 13 years ago

Alternate suggestion: Have a textbox that says, "If you don't mind us asking, where did you hear of us?"

Then the radio ad or whatever can say, "Enter DAN SAVAGE as your referrer to receive a free gift!"

savszymura• 13 years ago

Yey for the Lovecast!

thisishugo• 13 years ago

That would likely combat the problem of people quitting the checkout process because they saw a coupon box and hunted for a code. However as a method of tracking referrals I'd expect its usefulness to be close to zero, as it ostensibly is still a coupon, and will appear on the websites that offer them as such.

GhotiFish• 13 years ago

actually. Do it right and it's even more useful.

People might voluntarily divulge who referred them to your store. Only with the correct entry do you get a discount, as an added bonus to people who answered.

So incorrect results arn't technically incorrect, they're just bonus data.

coldpie• 13 years ago

This is exactly how RockAuto does it. If you enter an unknown string, it probably goes into some database that they can use for advertising. They also send out deal codes over email that are intended to go into the referral box.

martingordon• 13 years ago

Some sites present the coupon field slightly differently as a Gift Card/Gift Certificate/Coupon Code field which might help that "slapped in the face" feeling.

I noticed this on Zappos and the first Google result for "zappos coupon" is this: http://www.zappos.com/truth-about-zappos-coupons

fjk• 13 years ago

"You get pages of results: mostly garbage, some scams, and a few legitimate coupon sites. Unfortunately, the codes listed on those sites are a year old: you missed your chance."

It frustrates me when I see a coupon code box and cannot find any working codes. Oftentimes the most recent codes for a retailer on RetaiMeNot haven't been active in months or years. On the flip side, when I find a code that saves me anything, even free shipping, I am ecstatic. I feel like I am responsible, thrifty and savvy and I have a proclivity to purchase more items from that retailer later on.

I think these emotions are worth evoking in customers and banning the coupon code box destroys this ability. A referral link doesn't capture as much of the emotional satisfaction as seeing your cart totals drop after typing in a string of characters and clicking "Apply to Cart." Retailers could just hide the coupon code box when there aren't any active coupons. When a coupon is active, the box reappears.

ceol8• 13 years ago

I've done work for the kinds of retailers who have coupon code boxes, and most of the time, the only reason it's on there is because the default WordPress plugin/Joomla template/eCommerce solution has it there. No one ever thinks to remove it, despite them never planning on using it.

The best way for coupon code boxes to stop appearing is for developers and designers to bring it up with their client. A lot of the time, once the client is actually confronted with it has to make a decision, they choose not to have it.

mathattack• 13 years ago

It's not a slap in the face of the customer. It's the company shooting their own foot. Whenever I see the coupon code box, I search for coupons. Sometimes I fine one. If so, they've lost money.

rmrfrmrf• 13 years ago

You don't understand business if you think companies are losing money when you use a coupon.

lmm• 13 years ago

If I pay them $5 less than I was about to pay them, in what world is that not them losing $5?

username42• 13 years ago

Last time I encountered a coupon field, my wife told me that there was a coupon code on the main landing page. Result: I have reread the main landing page, entered the coupon and was happy to spare a couple of bucks.

adeaver• 13 years ago

From having built a few of these, my solution was to add a string to the end of the URL's in the promo material (ads, email, whatever) that, when clicked on, would trigger the coupon code box on the site for that user only.

Otherwise you didn't see it.

The company I worked at that used this did a lot of targeted and 1-off promotions so it seemed to work pretty well.

kellros• 13 years ago

An alternative approach would be to create a 'claim coupon' form and point your couponeers to that so that they may redeem the coupon. The trickier part would be then to keep track of the coupons in a similar fashion to the 'Items in Cart' (either via session based tracking or link it to their account).

This approach would also allow for implementing coupons in different ways (ex. time-based, limited), reduce mental stress by being able to retry codes till you found a valid coupon (some providers allow for coupon codes but no way to verify it's valid) and not distract from the check-out process (it would simply require showing which of the redeemed coupons are applicable to the purchase).

A plus side of this approach is that a coupon is enough to persuade potential buyers to create accounts to keep their coupon (while it's valid - for later use) and thus also reducing friction in the check-out process which should lead to more sales.

I do also now believe the existing 'coupon' implementation is at fault by leaving too much on the table.

mhb• 13 years ago

Previous discussion of someone else's rant about this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2844369

yanowitz• 13 years ago

I've taken to using http://couponfollow.com/checkout (the chrome extension). It helpfully colors the coupon code box red if it has a suggested coupon code. Eventually, I suppose, everyone will move to one-time coupon codes. But that will probably take years, so in the meantime, I save money.

ctdonath• 13 years ago

How about moving the coupon code field up front? If I have a coupon code, that's probably why I'm on the site now, I want to apply it, and I only want to see what it applies to.

Let me enter the code right away. Show me what it applies to. Make it easy to use it. Don't make me go thru all the contortions of buying something, unsure of whether the code will apply or not - and pissing me off if it doesn't after all that.

fnordfnordfnord• 13 years ago

It annoys me, and if the purchase is for something that I don't need immediately, it always makes me try to find either a coupon code, a cheaper price, or even a cheaper alternative.

pshon• 13 years ago

Don't mess w/ coupons, just ask Ron Johnson.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-10/lessons-from...

6cxs2hd6• 13 years ago

Has anyone tried putting a generic coupon code on the checkout form, right next to the input box?

Or even pre-filling the input box with the generic code?

Seems like that way, everyone can feel good, and some can feel even better.

p.s. Oh wait. I should probably file a B.S. patent for this idea. Unless someone has already has.

amirhirsch• 13 years ago

this is a fun way to apply a discount: http://www.yourinspirationweb.com/en/fun-with-javascript-jqu...

enko7• 13 years ago

It’s the optics that matter.

Oh really? Refraction and reflection of light, the study of same - that's what matters is it?

Of course not. You mean appearances matter. Name-dropping some physics-sounding word does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound confused and wrong. Optics means optics. It doesn't mean whatever you choose it to mean.

Deliberately misusing words doesn't make you sound cool, it makes you sound like a "Sandwich Artist".

brandon272• 13 years ago

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/optics

"2. (used with a plural verb) the way a situation, action, event, etc., is perceived by the public or by a particular group of people: The optics on this issue are pretty good for the Democrats. Administrators worry about the bad optics of hiring new staff during a budget crisis."

enko7• 13 years ago

Yeah, brought to you by the same type of people responsible for http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literally

Since the early 20th century, literally has been widely used as an intensifier meaning “in effect, virtually,” a sense that contradicts the earlier meaning “actually, without exaggeration”

I know the language is being debased. Doesn't mean I like it.

TorKlingberg• 13 years ago

It's an established secondary meaning of the word optics. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/optics 2.( used with a plural verb ) the way a situation, action, event, etc., is perceived by the public or by a particular group of people: The optics on this issue are pretty good for the Democrats. Administrators worry about the bad optics of hiring new staff during a budget crisis.

The English language is full of words and phrases that just make writing look more fancy.

enko7• 13 years ago

Yeah well until it's in Oxford it doesn't exist.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/yolo

ceol8• 13 years ago

You have two comma splices in your comment. It's really bothering me, because it ruins your entire argument. I mean, you might as well have wrote everything in Latin! You are stupid and wrong. I am the arbiter of the entire English language; you will abide by my rules!

...See how ridiculous that sounds? If you understood what the author was saying, there's no need to nitpick his use of a single word. Languages change, bud. No amount of bitter internet comments will stop that.

And let's stop shitting on people who work at Subway, kay? Pretty sure they're doing more with their lives than someone who trolls HN to complain about nonsense.

enko7• 13 years ago

This is an informal comment forum, so I prefer to structure my sentences as I would informal speech. That means comma splicing and lots of it. What would you have written?

I wasn't shitting on people who work at Subway, I was shitting on their awful, condescending job titles.

And I really just have to ask you to think about what you said.

Languages change, bud. No amount of bitter internet comments will stop that.

Yes they do. Society changes, too. Companies change. People change. Countries change, laws change. (Oops, another comma splice).

I could re-use your comment to put down any criticism of any change of any kind. Just play around with some issues you care about, replacing the word "Languages" to suit. Feel any different?

jamesbritt• 13 years ago

I was jolted by that usage as well, and dug up this: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07FOB-onlanguage-...

While people can defend the use, it gives the piece a distracting buzzwordy feel.

enko7• 13 years ago

Good research, thanks. Had no idea it was that old!

I am actually heartened to see it appears to be a politician's fad. Hopefully in 20 years time it will be about as potent as "radical".

Nonetheless, that doesn't put a damper on my nerdy inclination to point out, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

javert• 13 years ago

Lenovo does this, but they quote all the prices assuming you are going to put in the coupon code, which they display on the entry page into the product you are buying.

If you don't realize you have to jump through this dumb hoop and think you are actually getting the discount automatically, which is quite easy to do (I did, and I'm no dummy), they do not reimburse you the difference if you call on the phone to explain. The guy on the phone specifically explained to me that that is their official policy in this situation.

I mean, I trusted Lenovo (good past experiences), so I wasn't being super duper careful to look for any kind of trick. Imagine that... not looking out for being tricked! What a fool I was.

If you eally want the discount, you have to cancel your order and re-order, which means getting the product later. Lenovo knows very well that many customers won't do this.

tl;dr Lenovo suits have calculated a new way to trick customers, and treat customers in a shitty way. They should be ashamed. Gipped me off for a few hundred bucks.

Silhouette• 13 years ago

That behaviour is surprising to me. If anyone tried something so obviously deceptive here in the UK, I expect they'd last about five minutes with the advertising standards regulators.

beagle3• 13 years ago

I have a simple system that works very well:

Never order anything online before checking dealnews.com; Takes 10 additional seconds, saved me thousands. Among other things, they give you every single Lenovo deal (including through the Microsoft Store, which is often better than the coupons in the Lenovo store -- and usually arrives within a couple of days rather than 3 weeks), and they give you the past deals/coupons, so you can see if you need to wait a couple of days to get a 30% price reduction -- Lenovo, and many other vendors, have 30% off in two out of every 3 weeks, or two days out of every week.

jf• 13 years ago

Every time I see a box for a coupon code, I check retailmenot.com - Similar to you, this has saved me hundreds of dollars.

EGreg2• 13 years ago

When you shop in a store, ask if they have a price match guarantee and then pull up Google Shopping :)

electronous• 13 years ago

Just so you know "gipped" is a bigoted remark that's based on the word "gypsy".

huffman• 13 years ago

This is completely off-topic, but you don't have a bold weight of the body font you're using, so the browser is trying to fake it and it looks very fuzzy.

shimon_e• 13 years ago

Obviously there is a segment of the population that coupon codes are going to help convert into customers and vice versa. Someone really smart would develop some AI for this.

praptak• 13 years ago

Coupons are a form of market segmentation, which generally aims to extract surplus money from those customers who will pay more (for whatever reason - don't care, don't know any better) while still extracting some money from those who are price-sensitive.

This comes at a cost though, see this classic by Joel Spolsky: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckie...

The cost is the trust and goodwill of your customers. People will feel cheated if they find out and hopefully leave you for a competitor who doesn't impose on them the additional mental cost of searching for coupons, finding price engine links with lower prices(#) or whatever.

(#) Some shops actually do that - you get a better price from a price comparison engine than if you search from shop's own site. Talk about treating your trusted customers well.

JSadowski• 13 years ago

I'd be curious to test something like this: http://jsfiddle.net/CLJYC/

"Do you have a gift card or promotional code?" Y/N, and then only show the field if yes is selected.

thehme• 13 years ago

Sometimes when I'm buying online, it does bother me to find that "other" people have a coupon for something I want and that if I REALLY want it, I will need to pay full price. It specially bothers me when I'm a returning costumer and didn't receive any e-mails letting me know of a sale or coupon. This situation applies to other situation as well, for instance, think about the couple (or single person) that signed a contract to rent a place, has been a great tenant, and would like to renew the contract that is now ending soon. However, instead of the landlord saying: "hey! you have been a great tenant, so I will NOT raise your rent (or as much), so I can keep your business for longer", he/she says (thinks): "I know you like it here, so I'm going to stick it to you and raise the price of the rent, while new people who I don't even know, will get a cheaper rate and possibly not be as good a tenant as you are".

Sites should definitely keep track of loyal costumers and offer coupons in this manner and allow one to enter then once logged in, but not trouble visiting costumers with this. Letting people know they could have gotten something for cheaper is usually a discouragement from click the "place order" button. I know have definitely just x-ed out of my tab at that point in several occasions.

EGreg2• 13 years ago

How about having a blue spot on the page where the promotion says to click, so it doesn't say "COUPON CODE"

ruswick4• 13 years ago

Because that's really unintuitive.

DanBlake• 13 years ago

I am really late into this thread, but the way I got around this exact issue is I just renamed the field from "coupon code" to "referral code". Users dont mind skipping over it and it does the same thing.

keikun17• 13 years ago

I never thought about it like this. I guess I'll try to do my best to get offended the next time i run into one

hownottowrite• 13 years ago

Why do web apps and retailers do this to their paying customers?

Because it was a pain to manage millions of coupon codes on legacy catalog fulfillment systems. In fact, it's still not particularly easy.

Way back in the day, mail order retailers would send out millions of catalogs to current and prospective customers. To get these people to order, they would include coupons as an incentive. The coupons generally involved a short code indicating the mailing and a number indicating a segment. So, you'd get something like SU95615, which would translate to Spring 1995 segment 615. Segment 615 could be part of your own list or it might be part of a list you were renting. When the orders came in the codes would be used to tie back the promotional mailing spend to the revenue, thus allowing the retailer to score a list or segment.

So why not use individual codes and then roll up? More sophisticated companies did that. In fact, some would even have SKUs that had prefixes tied to the mailing allowing for some very deep analysis. However, most did not and it was primarily due to the fact that their systems were not designed to handle such customization. In fact, some would basically choke on that much data.

When these companies moved online, they took the practice of using coupon codes right along with them. As new companies without the legacy issues came along, they adopted the old ways and the cycle continued.

This is why these companies do this to their customers. Is it right? Of course not, but that's the way it is.

That said, there are better ways to handle this need to promote and track marketing dollars. Lots and lots of ways.

Here are a few I've tried. Each one works pretty well:

1. Using specific links in email promotions with codes already embedded: This is probably the best way to go. Customer get the code applied. No need to show the field at all. This is great for targeted promotions.

2. Using business logic to apply a discount automatically: In this scenario, there is no codebox either. The system figures out the right discount based on the promotion. This is good if you're giving account-based promotions or doing something site wide.

3. Single-use, unique codes: This is a special code that can only be used once (ideally by a specific person). This method has the added benefit of being a marketing tool in and of itself (i.e. you can tell the customer they are special because the code is made special just for them). Great for email and print catalogs.

In each case, there was a measured conversion improvement. In some cases, it was quite significant. However, I would strongly recommend testing. You're at the bottom of the conversion funnel here; caution is advised.

You may discover, as JC Penney did, that your customer base has certain expectations and that changing those learned behaviors is more difficult than you might expect. You may find that removing the coupon field generates more customer service requests (i.e. "Where do I put in my coupon?") You may also discover that your marketing department has no clue about how to tie your ingenious solution back into their demand generation. You may also discover that your systems are not well-suited to carrying so much additional data.

It's complicated but from my experience I'd have to say it's worth the effort to solve. Not only will your customers have a better experience, but you'll have better data about those customers and the sources you're tapping to bring new ones in the door.

Of course, be prepared for lots of complaints from the coupon stackers. Those guys really don't like it when you remove the field.

ck2• 13 years ago

It's called retailmenot.com - spend all of 10 seconds to find a discount.

It might also offend you to know people in different countries pay more or less for a product.

ie. Hosting in the USA is far more expensive than Europe for some mysterious reason

illdave• 13 years ago

Last year, I gave a talk to a group of online marketers, ecom specialists and site owners. I asked them if they ever - when shopping on sites that weren't their own - opened a new tab and searched Google for "[brand name] voucher code" whenever they hit a checkout page and saw the promo box. Literally everyone put their hand up.

I'm not sure why this thread has so many people saying that it's a complaint that has no merit. Do you open a new tab and search, or do you just ignore it and carry on with the purchase?

ruswick4• 13 years ago

First, I'd like to point out that his suggestion is fucking absurd. Without codes, there would be no way to discern between methods of customer acquisition (eg. is this ad more effective than that ad), especially on non-web content. Moreover, the efficacy of customer acquisition would decrease tremendously (most people respond to ads because of the promise of a discount). I don't understand how the OP believes that this is financially tenable for most sites. Codes are a fundamental aspect of advertising strategy for many companies.

Second, the notion that this is hostile to the user just bemuses me. I don't understand why this has any detrimental effects on the customer. If they are fine paying full price (as they were when they began checking out), they are free to pay full price. If someone with expendable free time would rather dig through these coupon sites, that is their prerogative. The existence of a coupon code field merely gives the option to seek out a discount. This is similar to most other forms of commerce. If I have free time and want to save money, I can dig through circulars and clip ads, or I can just go to the store and pay full price. Is it offensive to the user that the self checkout also has a slot for placing coupons? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. How is it bad customer service when a user literally isn't forced to do anything other than ignore the field if they so choose? Giving people the option to save money if they are willing to exert some effort is an unequivocal positive aspect of most sites.

This piece is just incoherent to me. I honestly don't understand why this is bad in any way.

bpatrianakos• 13 years ago

It's MOS. Manufactured Outrage Syndrome and its what people in tech do. They see something they personally dislike, decide the world should work a different way, and then write a blog post arguing for it.

The argument is that your conversions drop from people searching for coupon codes. We'll all just have to test that see for ourselves, won't we. This isn't the kind of thing where we've suddenly discovered a new counter-intuitive best practice for shopping carts. It looks like a few finicky people will be upset and call it bad customer service. I for one am willing to write them off as wannabe usability experts and continue to make the majority of users happy most of the time rather than cater to a small but noisy group. In the end you can't please every customer. Ever. Next we'll see a post about why not having a coupon code field is the worst customer service decision in the world too.

Domenic_S• 13 years ago

What? No. This was actually studied, with data and everything.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6205769

http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/11363/do-promo-codes-o...

mijustin9• 13 years ago

I wrote the post from an anecdotal POV, and just started digging into the research now. ;)

Here's what I've found so far:

- Oliver & Shor found that: "prompting for a code in the absence of having one had negative effects on fairness, satisfaction, and completion when compared to the control." http://www2.owen.vanderbilt.edu/mike.shor/research/promo/jpb...

- This study by Oliver & Swan (1989) found a big link between a consumer's perception of pricing fairness, and their overall satisfaction with a purchase. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1251411?uid=3737720&ui...

- Xia, Monroe, & Cox found: "For price comparisons, the other-customer comparison has the greatest effect on perceived price unfairness because of the salience of such a comparison" http://bear.warrington.ufl.edu/weitz/mar7786/Articles/price%...

- This study by Google found that in a real-world setting, "more than 40% of shoppers have left a retail store without purchasing because they knew they left a coupon at home". http://www.google.com/think/research-studies/from-clipping-t...

lsc• 13 years ago

First, I'd like to point out that his suggestion is fucking absurd. Without codes, there would be no way to discern between methods of customer acquisition

As the customer? /I don't care/

As the customer? making me negotiate is work. Coupon codes are a way of automating the negotiation.

Now, different customers feel differently about this. Generally speaking, nerds without business experience? they usually agree with me. Be straight with me. Price discrimination (and, coupons are price discrimination) feels like an insult to them.

The author points out that if you want to charge different people different prices? If people find out, some of them will be pissed.

The author's solution? be discrete about it. there are plenty of ways to include a referral tag without calling it a coupon code. Someone else suggested a "how did you hear about us" - and then there are silent analytics that require no action on the customer's part.

anigbrowl2• 13 years ago

I shop at Trader Joes for preference because there are no coupon codes to collect, no loyalty cards to remember, and the prices are consistently good. The food quality is outstanding, I the selection is excellent, and they're plenty busy. Also, my understanding is that their employees are paid far better than those at other grocery chains, and they're certainly smarter, more cheerful, and helpful.

Frankly, I think coupon hunting is a complete waste of time, and the slightly higher margin I might pay at Trader Joes instead of optimizing my shopping around another store's coupon system is more than compensated by the savings in time, stress, and mental energy.

romey• 13 years ago

I don't think it's absurd at all. As other commenters have mentioned, seeing the coupon code box and not having a coupon gives me (personally) a feeling of remorse before I've even bought what I was shopping for. This should concern you, as a merchant, because ideally you'd like your users to associate good feelings with shopping on your site.

Beyond the "feelings" aspect, I suspect that, as is argued in the article, the coupon code box does lead in some cases to cart abandonment. I've certainly seen the box, gone on a hunt for a coupon, and ended up buying the same item at a different vendor during my hunt many times before.

Personally, I think the best solution for this is either special urls (i.e. www.shop.com/summercoupon), or a "Where did you hear about us" box, which could double as a coupon box, and just an interesting way to gather data about your users. Sure, you'd probably get a lot of garbage, and you'd have to put more effort into parsing the values, but, in addition to not alienating users, you might find some valuable insights as well.

[edited for grammar]

reeses2• 13 years ago

What people say and what people pay are not strongly correlated. :-)

Coupons can give a 100-10,000% lift very easily, enabling web merchants to be less dependent on black Friday/cyber Monday/etc. They can shift demand earlier in the year to even out fulfillment stress and reduce the uncertainty in sales projections.

In the face of realized revenue vs. some perception of unhappiness, sales and marketing will take the buck eleven times out of ten.

auctiontheory3• 13 years ago

I think you'd enjoy Dan Ariely's Predictably Irrational, or any other popular book on behavioral economics. (Even better: Dan's Coursera class.)

Your view of the world is perfectly rational, but that's not how humans behave or think/feel.

nandemo• 13 years ago

I upvoted you because of your first paragraph. But OP's suggestion isn't absurd. One might still offer coupons while not making the option obvious to people who don't have one.

How is it bad customer service when a user literally isn't forced to do anything other than ignore the field if they so choose?

This isn't simply OP's opinion. Some people will get pissed off if they found somebody else just got a better deal. E.g. see recent Paul Graham's essay where he mentions some investors will refuse to invest at valuation $x if they find out another investor got to invest at valuation $0.8x, (with the implicit assumption that they still believe they can make money at the new valuation).

reeses2• 13 years ago

I agree that source codes, affiliate ids, landing pages, and the like are necessary to track and reconcile sources from campaigns and third parties.

There are a lot of ways to skin the cat, and the most realistic is to use a single field that can take gift cards or promotional coupons. It's easy to bin GCs and look up coupons and the use of a single field (with {apply} and {add} buttons) also reduces the complexity of the payments page.

It's well known that the web has enabled a whole segment of customer often referred to as "the extreme price shopper," who is a person who only buys the promotional item and generally has a negative lifetime value once margins and acquisition costs are factored into their RFM.

Companies do not like ESPs. Abandoned cart processing, which any viable ecommerce system supports, will be able to salvage a number of those transactions as well as indicate where the user exited.

The other option is using third party cookies for sourcing and attribution, which is sloppy, unreliable, and generally creates more affiliate unhappiness (although, honestly, affiliates are generally more trouble than they're worth).

drewying• 13 years ago

I'm sure it's just me, but I've never felt bad or weird or bad or even cared much about the possibility of paying 20 bucks for something vs 19 bucks with a 5% off coupon code. That one dollar savings doesn't seem worth the hassle of spending 20 minutes on Google. I'd rather spend that 20 minutes billing 100 bucks/hour making a website for someone.

Reading these comments it seems there are a lot of people on Hacker News who seem quite passionate about the idea of getting the best deal they can and not "feeling like a sucker".

Which is fine, but it's definitely a feeling I don't experience. Maybe I'm just weird.

With the topic at hand, having maintained an online shop for a client for several years, I see that they use Coupon Codes as a customer service thing. Didn't like your product? Here's a onetime use 15% off code so you don't hate us. At least that's how they used it. So I always ignore those fields.

Fuzzwah• 13 years ago

The real slap in the face is that the coupon code field is how the affiliate marketing scam business works:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6204105

http://venturebeat.com/2013/08/12/the-big-ugly-affiliate-mar...

imissmyjuno• 13 years ago

I have a feeling the linked blog post was written in response to those articles. Not terribly original then..

olegp• 13 years ago

What are the sites where one can find SaaS coupon codes and offers? AppSumo, F6S, TNW Market - any others? We would like to aggregate them at https://starthq.com

oisino• 13 years ago

Host Gator gets around this by putting a fake coupon in its signup flow to make you think coupon has been applied https://www.evernote.com/shard/s151/sh/0189a90d-cf03-426e-88...

RobGR• 13 years ago

I think these coupon codes produce this reaction because they remind us how non-transparent online commerce can be.

Walmart has a hard time at their brick and mortar store charging more for diapers to the poor person who lives down the street and has no car to get to competitors, and less to the better off person who arrived by car. But a huge amount of "big data" work is spent differentially pricing online commerce -- the travel industry is most famous for it of course.

The general trend of technology tends to be that tools once only available to the big institutions become democratized and more revolutionary as they are. Similarly I think the "big data" and tracking and etc will swing around into a more equitable balance.

That can be hard to believe, but try to imagine this -- you go to buy something online, but you pay with bitcoin, and a browser plugin you have pops up a screen when you are on the final checkout page -- this plugin uses the bitcoin chains and non-anonymity to show you all recent transactions with that bitcoin address. You can then get an instant sense of whether you are overpaying or getting a deal.

Such a system could be gamed and evaded of course.

At one time I discussed making a reverse-Priceline system, where consumers would use a browser plugin that shared what offers were being accepted and rejected on Priceline style reverse auctions.

The sum total such efforts is a lot of infrastructure invested in replecating what a simple open-outcry market would be, if the market were run by disinterested, trusted authority.

ChrisNorstrom• 13 years ago

Although I understand the anger stemming from coupon code forms, a lot of us use them for very different reasons:

- I run http://DayOnePP.com and sell my inventions there.

- When something goes wrong for a customer you can give the customer a coupon code "sorrykarenhurney" which will give them free shipping or 10% off. This is a great way to win back customers who have had trouble. (You can rename the "Coupon Code" field to be "Customer Service Code" if you use it exclusively for this purpose)

- When I advertise my Calendars or Pens on a design blog I tell the owner that I'll give them an exclusive discount to their readers if they mention my product on the front page. I name the coupon code after the website.

- You can email coupon codes to newsletter members as a reward for signing up for your newsletter.

Although the OP has a legitimate concern, he has never run an online store and doesn't see the behind-the-scenes logic in selectively giving customers discounts. It really is a necessity. Brick & Mortar stores use them even more, but no one gets pissed off at them.

piratebroadcast• 13 years ago

Some of the most emo shit I've read in quite some time.

ababab• 13 years ago

I have no affiliation, but I'll plug this awesome Chrome add-on[1] for finding discount codes at checkout. I'm not one to go actively hunting for discounts, and this has saved me probably tens of dollars since installing.

[1] http://joinhoney.com

jakeludington• 13 years ago

Macy's solves the problem of coupon codes in a way that's good for everyone. They have a coupon code box. They also have a link to a page that shows you all available Macy's coupon's. If one applies to your cart, you can use it. If there isn't a coupon for your cart, you might find out something else is on sale and buy that too. If you don't care about coupons, you can check out and ignore the box.

The customer wins. Macy's wins.

This coupon code is a slap in the face

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