Malibu homeowners foiled by $30K Kickstarter campaign

http://sub.garrytan.com/malibu-homeowners-who-hide-access-to-beautiful-beaches-foiled-by-$30k-kickstarter-campaign

by kirillzubovsky • 13 years ago

596 206 13 years ago

sub.garrytan.com

ambiate• 13 years ago

Finally, someone started taking my advice! This is very interesting. I never considered that homeowners might put up fake signs to detour the public.

"Special logo thanks! ---> We'll put your logo / icon (280 x 280 px) PLUS a link to your website on a special thank you page in the app! Plus, an advance copy of the app. Estimated delivery: Jun 2013 "

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5794094

tnorthcutt• 13 years ago

Although note that they're only putting the link in the app, not on a website, from what I can tell. So, not really buying a link in the traditional sense.

waterside813• 13 years ago

Just for a little context for those unfamiliar with Malibu. Some beaches are public, some are private and open only to those who live in particular neighbourhoods. The residents here are remarkably wealthy, we're talking Speilberg, Streisand, Geffen, and at times have hired their own private security to check people's ID to ensure they belong there. Broad Beach (I think) is public, but there's gates that block access to it requiring a key. So this app informs people which gates are legit and which ones are erected under false premise.

Malibu problems.

joonix3• 13 years ago

This is great. One day I was exploring Malibu and found one of these small narrow entranceways. They had a "guard" (guy in a yellow t-shirt) sitting on a foldable chair telling people it was a private beach. Pay these people no regard. Walk on to any beach you want. If the sand really belongs to the homeowner, they would have a fence surrounding it. Even if it happens to be private, the public should still have an easement to pass through. Remember, if they want to kick you out of their private beach, they need to call the police. They can't eject you with force.

gknoy• 13 years ago

I imagine they CAN eject you with force, but if they do you will be able to sue them and probably also call the police. Recent events should help us remain mindful of the fact that ability and legality do not always go hand in hand -- be mindful of what can happen, not just what is legal, and you'll be safer.

The same goes for being a pedestrian near cars. Physics trumps right of way.

adrr• 13 years ago

Some of the private communities have fences that extend into the water line. I just walk past them. Fished surf in Malibu for 10 years, never had issues with people telling me i couldn't be there. Don't know why people want to hangout on Malibu beaches, the water smell like sewage since they lack a sewer system so everything is on septic tanks that overflow every time it rains. Also all the home owners let their dogs run free and they defecate everywhere without picking it up.

grumps• 13 years ago

That's completely dependent on state a local laws. Its California so... yea physical force may not be legal.

kirillzubovsky• 13 years ago

Did you say that even public beaches require a key, which I assume only residents of the 'allowed' neighborhoods are able to attain?

waterside813• 13 years ago

Yup, Broad Beach at one location has a gate requiring a key.

ChuckMcM• 13 years ago

Of course keys aren't the only things that open locks. Back in the early 80's the "locks" on these gates were pretty basic 3 pin convenience locks and you could pick them very easily.

waitwhatwhoa• 13 years ago

"some beaches are private" is actually incorrect - all beaches in California are public from the water to the high tide line.

awm• 13 years ago

I believe the only exception to this rule is Military property. Coronado (off of San Diego) beach is an example. Eventually you hit the navy base...

waterside813• 13 years ago

Yeah you're probably right - I've probably been conditioned to think some are private because the access is restricted.

icebraining• 13 years ago

Sorry, I downvoted you by mistake, meant to upvote.

jamesaguilar• 13 years ago

In Hawaii they take it a step further and require that there be access to the coast for the public every N hundred feet. You can find some pretty cool ways down to the water in some of the more expensive neighborhoods.

sk5t3• 13 years ago

Question from an unfamiliar northeasterner: how public is the beach really if you have to flee the rising tide? Or are folks happy to pack it in after a few hours?

jonnathanson2• 13 years ago

Things get a little wonky on a few of the more elite private beaches in Malibu: Broad Beach and Carbon Beach, among others. On these beaches, erosion has basically eliminated 50% of the beachfront, such that the entire public strip is underwater at mid to high tide. It's exposed only at low tide. Hence, the beaches are de facto private for much of the day. This isn't intentional; it's just the result of environmental changes over the last few decades.

mjn2• 13 years ago

from the water to the high tide line

That's what I've seen reported elsewhere. But this PDF from the state government claims that public access extends to the start of dune vegetation (where it exists) or 25 feet inland of the mean high-tide line otherwise, excluding in some cases a 10-foot buffer around authorized development. That would suggest a substantial portion of the beach is public, even above the high-tide line: http://www.coastal.ca.gov/access/BroadBeachCoastalAccess.pdf

edit: Some more digging turns up that the land up to the mean high tide line is publicly owned, but the right of public access may extend further landwards. In some cases the landowner is required to grant a 25-foot public-access easement above the MHTL, as a condition of getting a development permit. That appears to be what's happened in Malibu, or at least the PDF above is claiming so. In those cases the area above the MHTL is still technically private land, but the public is allowed to access it.

Alex3917• 13 years ago

"all beaches in California are public from the water to the high tide line."

There is also a federal law that makes all navigable rivers open to the public up to the high water line. However, as far as I know there isn't any database that contains a list of all the rivers that are considered to be navigable, meaning that actually using this protection might require an expensive affirmative defense.

dmckeon• 13 years ago

For large values of "remarkably wealthy" - http://la.curbed.com/archives/2013/05/mapping_15_of_tech_bil...

joonix3• 13 years ago

These properties seem undervalued. We're talking about absolute beachfront property a half hour from the #2 population center of the largest economy in the world in a beautiful area (that's on the US coast that faces Asia) with one of the best and rarest climates in the world. $10 million is chump change to a billionaire; consider the number of billionaires in the world and that the number rises yearly as more and more economies around the world develop and emerge. There are only 70 homes on Carbon Beach. Considering new Manhattan penthouses are selling for $90 million cash, it seems Ellison has spotted a bargain and dived straight in.

algorias2• 13 years ago

Hiring private security for that purpose is basically vigilantism, this should be illegal in any sane jurisdiction. Has anybody prosecuted this?

Being a "Malibu problem" doesn't really make this matter any less relevant. It's precisely this kind of being above the law feeling of the wealthy that's at the root of many much larger problems.

3pt141592• 13 years ago

It depends on authority and proof. It is not vigiantism if the area is private and the guard is given authority by the neighbourhood association (or whoever owns/is in charge of the land).

While the wealthy being above the law is a problem, the larger problem is the arbitrary nature of the law and the arbitrary nature of its enforcement. People wouldn't have to hire private guards if the law wasn't enforced. The police would enforce the law if there was less of it wasted on things that moral people do (like smoking pot).

rit• 13 years ago

This is a bit hyperbolic. Vigilantism refers specifically to "an individual or group undertaking law enforcement without legal authority".

Not to defend the clearly overreaching actions of the Malibu homeowners, but hiring security guards to protect what you feel is your property is not vigalantism in any sense of the word.

A homeowner has every right to hire security guards for their property. At worst, the issue here is overreaching claims on the extent of their property – something that happens among even the unwealthy.

wisty• 13 years ago

Vigilantism is enforcing the law through illegal means. Hiring men-at-arms to stake out property, and keep the peasants in line is feudalism.

Steko• 13 years ago

There are also a lot of public walking paths[1] and unexpected stairways[2] in the Hollywood Hills that homeowners will put gates over or post signs claiming no public access, because, you know, fuck you got mine.

- Bunny Ultramod on Metafilter (http://www.metafilter.com/129367/Hiding-Public-Land)

http://www.discoverlosangeles.com/blog/hiking-los-angeles-la...

http://www.secretstairs-la.com/welcome.html

fatjokes• 13 years ago

Tell me that the homeowners who put up the misleading signs get fined, preferably heavily, knowing how wealthy those homeowners likely are.

beat• 13 years ago

Probably not. It's INTENDED to be an exclusive neighborhood. The city government is probably rigged to maximum effectiveness at protecting the interests of the wealthy and exclusive. So doing things that impede the rabble is probably rewarded, not punished.

sharkweek• 13 years ago

100% Correct -- the reality here is that the city council is likely to respond to the wealthy tax payers. The last thing the city wants is a mass exodus of the wealthy on the hunt for more private beach property.

IvyMike• 13 years ago

"Keep your ugly, fucking, gold-bricking ass out of my beach community, Lebowski!"

corin_• 13 years ago

It's INTENDED to be an exclusive neighborhood.

Since when? And I mean that in a "can you elaborate on how that happened", not a sarcastic way.

My only knowledge of the history of Malibu comes from Rob Lowe's autobiography - he moved there as a young teenager / pre-teen (11-13 I think) with a slightly hippy mother who was looking for cleaner air than Ohio had to offer. Anyway, he describes 70s/80s Malibu as very different from what it is today, much more laid back, much less rich-people-focused (although even back then he had, as an example, Martin Sheen + family as neighbors), worth noting that when Lowe moved his family were probably somewhere between working and middle class, and they fitted in fine.

It seems easy to understand why Malibu could become so expensive and lived in by only super-rich and celebrities - that's basic economics of supply and demand - but at what point, and why, did it get to a point where you say "it's INTENDED to be an exclusive neighborhood"?

raverbashing• 13 years ago

So, it's like Copyright trolls, but for property

aliston• 13 years ago

The section mentioned in the misleading sign isn't even the right section. 602(n) appears to deal with motor vehicles?...

602(n) "Driving any vehicle, as defined in Section 670 of the Vehicle Code, upon real property belonging to, or lawfully occupied by, another and known not to be open to the general public, without the consent of the owner, the owner’s agent, or the person in lawful possession."

untog• 13 years ago

Seems pretty simple. Search local laws for "not open to the general public", copy, paste, boom.

TylerE4• 13 years ago

Isn't there a free speech issue here? Can't they put up signs proclaiming whatever they want on their own property?. Yes, I am aware that there are some specific public-safety oriented exceptions, like impersonating police, but I don't see that here. Scumbag? Yes, but it absolutely should not be illegal.

bernardom• 13 years ago

Isn't this very close to impersonating police? Impersonating the government?

Google says yes, in certain cases: "http://blog.lawinfo.com/2011/03/23/impersonating-a-governmen...

mbreese2• 13 years ago

I don't know... Some of those signs look like they are government signs, and that could be a public safety issue.

aidenn0• 13 years ago

Fraud is typically not protected by free speech rights. For example, if you put up a fraudulent "No Parking" sign on your property so that people wouldn't park on the curb next to your house, that would be illegal even if it were on your property.

Groxx2• 13 years ago

Public beaches and their required-to-be-public access points presumably aren't private property, and I'd bet that those 'no parking' signs are on public property as well, given that the parking spaces themselves are apparently public.

sk5t3• 13 years ago

This argument makes no sense. Why not paint the curb in front of your house red or yellow to discourage parking, then? Why not pop a few "free speech" stop signs on the road as part of a private traffic-calming initiative? Why not leave it up to the informed motorist to figure out whether the curb is painted red for a safety reason or merely because the homeowner is a jackass?

Trying to enforce one's will over public property and public behavior with misleading, official-looking signs is scarcely any better than impersonating a police officer for the same effect--it's just a matter of degree.

HarryHirsch3• 13 years ago

The law is not just what is written, is it what is commonly practiced as well. So says the great and terrible philosopher Carl Schmitt, and he makes sense.

These fake signs try to change common practice; they are subverting the law and are quite successful at it. They are black hat hackers, in a way.

I cannot see why you would be supporting this scumbaggery.

karmajunkie2• 13 years ago

Functional speech can be regulated. And yes, it should be illegal to put up signs purporting to be official.

gorrillamcd• 13 years ago

Awesome. I've never been to Malibu, but I can definitely see this as a useful app if I ever do decide to go. If the locals have trouble finding the public beaches, I can't imagine I'd be able to do it without some help.

mturmon4• 13 years ago

This app was led in part by an LA journalist and lover of Malibu beaches, Jenny Price. She had been reporting on these public beaches in a series that ran on laobserved.com, a popular LA blog.

Here's the first such piece, which I notice ran in 2006:

http://www.laobserved.com/intell/2006/08/guide_to_malibus_hi...

Here's a link to the announcement of the kickstarter campaign:

http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2013/05/time_ticking_for_j...

which contains pointers to some of her other articles.

It was a genius idea on someone's part to get her to build an app around this knowledge. She's a journalist, not a computer nerd.

karmajunkie2• 13 years ago

Why do you assume that the idea wasn't hers?

mturmon4• 13 years ago

Since this is HN, I was trying to point out that it's a case where latent knowledge was transformed into highly useful software.

I do pretty much assume the app wasn't totally her idea. This is because I've been aware of her work (e.g., http://west.stanford.edu/node/901) for probably 10 years now, but hey, I could be wrong. The agency that developed the app is here: http://escapeapps.com/about

gkop• 13 years ago

Here's the Kickstarter campaign - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/escapeapps/opening-this-...

MasterScrat• 13 years ago

Is it just me or is $30,000 a lot for an app?

I know there's some research involved but that still sounds highly expansive.

patrickserrano• 13 years ago

This a great project. Living on the east end of Long Island, we tend to have similar (although seemingly less extreme) situations with public beaches and waterways. I'd love to see something like this here too, so when I'm getting yelled at I can point out that I am in fact on a public beach.

robomartin• 13 years ago

The first thought I had was: Why doesn't someone organize an "Occupy Malibu"? Hundreds or thousands of people peacefully (and cleanly) making use of the public beaches in these "exclusive" areas for the entire summer. Keep it clean, civilized, respectable, don't leave trash behind and be considerate. In other words, give absolutely no reason to label you negatively in any way.

socalnate1• 13 years ago

Probably because there are about a million other more important injustices to work on first.

redblacktree2• 13 years ago

Yes, but doesn't this just feel deliciously like "sticking it to the man?" These are public beaches that the most well-off among us would like to keep for themselves. Not only that, they use extremely underhanded tactics to do so.

saalweachter• 13 years ago

Eh, we can do two things at once.

An "Occupy Malibu" protest needn't suck resources from cancer research. A few hundred (thousand) people are going to be visiting beaches in the general area of Malibu anyway. A concerted effort by beach-goers to find and use the most egregiously obstructed public beaches (for instance, using this app) could be both satisfying and low-cost.

bjhoops1• 13 years ago

But how many of those involve lying on a beach all day long?

HeyLaughingBoy• 13 years ago

About 20 years(?) ago Michael Moore did this in Greenwich, CT. Same deal: in CT, all beaches are public from the water to the high-tide mark. Greenwich imposes ridiculous parking/beach entry fees ($100+ IIRC) for non-residents so the only access is often from the water. He took a bunch of people and a film crew and hung out below the high-tide mark while the Greenwich cops hung out above it to make sure no-one crossed.

Not sure what the point of it all was, since there are many other nice public beaches. Maybe it was worth it just pissing off a bunch of people with sticks up their collective asses?

potatolicious• 13 years ago

"Hundreds or thousands of people peacefully (and cleanly) making use of the public beaches in these "exclusive" areas for the entire summer. Keep it clean, civilized, respectable, don't leave trash behind and be considerate."

This is a nice idea, but I don't think it's at all possible. Looking at Occupy and other large protest movements in recent memory, none of them were really above reproach to this degree, at least not once they reached scale.

I still remember the SF Occupy camp. Civilized, respectable, clean, and considerate lasted about two days. You put 500 modern, young protesters on a beach and "clean, civilized, respectable, considerate" will be a distant memory.

jbooth• 13 years ago

Not to mention, even if it is actually that respectable, the FBI really doesn't like hippie protests and have a history of making sure that they don't stay respectable.

sixQuarks4• 13 years ago

why does this app cost $30,000? They should be able to get a high quality app like this developed for 1/10th the cost.

gst• 13 years ago

With 1/10th of the cost ($3000) you can pay a good programmer for something like a week at most. Do you think this app will be completely done within one week?

jlgreco3• 13 years ago

How long could it take to make an App that says "All the beaches are public, don't believe their lies."?

megablast2• 13 years ago

As someone who has written many GPS apps like this, once you have the data you could write it in a day. And since there is a free PDF with all the data in it, you just need to extract that data.

PLenz• 13 years ago

My assumption is for the inevitable legal battle when one of the homeowners tries to sue to app out of existence.

jusben1369• 13 years ago

in SoCal that would be the $300,000 kickstarter follow on round.

HarryHirsch3• 13 years ago

Exactly. You will find what public footpaths (that's public rights of way for leftpondians) there are marked on British Ordnance Survey maps. I believe the Ordnance Survey is the definitive source for these claims.

meepmorp• 13 years ago

Do Ordinance Survey maps cover Southern California?

ww5202• 13 years ago

Have you developed a similar app and know the amount of work going into it? Have you commissioned a similar app and know the cost? Actually why don't you do it if you are confident it can be done in $3000?

sixQuarks4• 13 years ago

yes, actually I have. And the app was more complicated than this beach app.

HNJohnC3• 13 years ago

This is trivial to do as a web page; making it an app is pointless and 30,000 dollars completely wasted.

mirkules2• 13 years ago

It costs $30K for the time and effort to gather and organize the data. If it was that easy to find all beach access points and identify false signs, it would have already been done.

The cost of an app isn't just the amount of man-hours*salary required to program an app. I feel that this is a trap that inexperienced engineers fall into often. Once you start building a business, there are many, many aspects that are a time-drain, and if you charge your customer solely based on the amount of time you spend coding -- rather than the amount of time actually working on the business -- you are short-changing yourself.

datasage• 13 years ago

It appears the development is being done by an agency. Overhead, profit and all that...

danielweber• 13 years ago

Because everything these days is a Kickstartr.

(Also, I hope developers don't sell themselves so cheap.)

HNJohnC3• 13 years ago

Or take a weekend and a copy of the data from the authority responsible and put it on a website using Google maps so everyone can access it from any device.

nakovet• 13 years ago

Those same things happen in Brazil too, wealthy people put gates, make the entrance hard to find and even do lobby to have people enforcing paid parking to restrain access to public beaches, there is no such a thing as private beach, but somehow they manage to fake the "ownership".

tmarthal2• 13 years ago

It seems to me that if they really wanted to disrupt the Malibu beach scene and provide more access for the public to the beaches, that they would just release the data as an annotated geojson file, rather than raise 30k(!) to create an app that will no longer be updated in a year.

Props to them for doing a civil service, but it seems to me that it is also very-much motivated by money.

mirkules2• 13 years ago

I don't see anything inherently wrong in building a business around a civil service.

Your exclamation mark indicates that 30K is too much for an app like this, but I disagree because someone has to do the research to find each beach access point, identify false ones, organize the data into a database and build a app/web service around it.

For an average Silicon Valley salary, $30K is a quarter of a year's worth of salary. My guess is that more than three months of work was put into this.

tmarthal2• 13 years ago

I also have no problem with people building businesses around a civil service. However, this is a kickstarter campaign which seems to be trying to raise money for work that has already been done.

I put the exclamation point there because it is my outsider perspective that the data has already been researched and compiled by the California Coastal Commission. An iPhone application has even already been submitted to Apple and approved (that's my understanding, their kickstarter page has changed over the last few weeks). They are raising the money so that they can "release the iPhone app for free", instead of charging for it. That is the reason for my exclamation point -- to believe that the app would compile 30k worth of purchases may be disingenuous.

mjn2• 13 years ago

I think it might actually have more impact this way: it's not only information that's lacking, but public awareness of the law on beach access, deliberately muddied by some false information and low-level intimidation from homeowners. By both collecting the information and making an app with some fundraising publicity, they can try to target both angles.

That said, I would like to see this information make its way into OpenStreetMap, if it isn't already. In addition to just mapping out the paths, OSM has tags for access rights.

ynniv• 13 years ago

One user (https://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=66&uid=215784313754106091...) added many of them to Google Maps in early May: http://goo.gl/maps/YO1O7

mattyod• 13 years ago

Most of those entrances seem to be open. This one even appears to have a welcome sign. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=public+beach+access+point&hl=...

ljoshua• 13 years ago

I think the real story here is the use of Kickstarter to remove the risk from further developments on the Android app. If you want to go ahead and create something, but are worried about it panning out, this starts to open up new options.

It's not the first time it's been done, but it's encouraging to see creators being able to deliver to those who want their products with less question marks in the process.

HNJohnC3• 13 years ago

I think the real story is how easy it is to scam people out of 30k for doing what could be done in a weekend with Google maps and some info from the authorities.

johnbender9• 13 years ago

Given that the project goal is to permit as many people as possible to find these beach entrances isn't it a bit odd to target a total of two platforms for the application? I'm surprised they aren't doing something this simple with the web.

Put another way, isn't accessibility a prime concern for a beach accessibility application?

nobodysfool2• 13 years ago

You can just go here to get the information for free:

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/access/BroadBeachCoastalAccess.pdf

They are just providing a better user experience and advertising, but it is public information and it is free.

johnbender9• 13 years ago

I'm asking why the "better user experience" can't be accessible to people without an iPhone or Android device.

mturmon4• 13 years ago

And moreover, the person who contributed to making the app was a significant force in getting the document you link to, to be written in the first place.

She's been working for a decade on clarifying public accessibility to the Malibu beaches.

rmc2• 13 years ago

Those 2 platforms cover a large percentage of the mobile devices.

johnbender9• 13 years ago

Certainly they do, but they don't cover all of them or the people who don't own mobile devices. Again, this is an accessibility issue.

cookiecaper2• 13 years ago

One justification may be that it's much simpler to both obtain and display helpful location data as a native application than a web page.

johnbender9• 13 years ago

I'm not sure about obtaining location information (ie, I don't know about geo api support) but "maps on the web" are extremely robust.

sequoia4• 13 years ago

Given that the project goal is to permit as many people as possible to find these beach entrances isn't it a bit odd to target a total of two platforms for the application?

What alternative would you suggest? What would meet your criteria of "accessible" for this initiative?

sa1f• 13 years ago

A web app perhaps?

dot• 13 years ago

The iPhone app is now live: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/our-malibu-beaches/id5656361...

thereallurch• 13 years ago

Seems like some of these homeowners would pay $30k to not have this program, or for some control over the final product. I could imagine some rich guy paying $15k to keep his section of beach off the program.

rocky1138• 13 years ago

Perhaps this is their idea of monetization for their app!

Arjuna• 13 years ago

Regarding Broad Beach... here is a PDF [1] with some good detail on beach access. There are 2 access points that are open to the public from Broad Beach Road. The PDF also has photos of all of the properties, and detail on what part of the beach is available to the public.

[1] http://www.coastal.ca.gov/access/BroadBeachCoastalAccess.pdf

robotcookies• 13 years ago

Glad that Californians have this option. Beaches should be public on the East coast as well.

peter303• 13 years ago

This happens too with public land trails in the Rockies (near Boulder). The nearby landoweners remove signs, plant over trails, etc.

tlrobinson2• 13 years ago

Ah yes. I remember in 2005 some friends and I hung out at Carbon Beach in front of David Geffen's house soon after he lost a court battle... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Geffen#Court_battles

edit: photo http://i.imgur.com/zCQEfZY.jpg

michaelwww• 13 years ago

I read this as Malibu homeowners scammed by $30K Kickstarter campaign.

taude• 13 years ago

Why does this need to be an app? Seems like building out a website to distribute the information would be better.

dagw• 13 years ago

Websites already exists and have been linked to by other people. This app just makes it easier to find and use that info from a mobile phone.

whyenot• 13 years ago

In the comments to the Sean Parker / Big Sur Wedding story that was posted recently, at least one person described the California Coastal Commission as a bunch of thugs. It's largely thanks to the CCC enforcing easement requirements on beach front homeowners, including some very powerful people, that there is any public access at all in places like Malibu.

earbitscom• 13 years ago

Can they make this app also tell you when valet parking companies are falsely putting cones and signs in front of parking meters, etc? This happens in every area of Santa Monica, Venice, LA, etc. They make it look like several parking spots are legally blocked from 6pm to 2am for their valet service, when in fact they are not. It's a way bigger problem than this beach thing, but seems like it would rely on similar technology.

wilfra2• 13 years ago

Why are the cops letting them do that?

brownbat• 13 years ago

99% Invisible had a story on secret staircases in California, left over from the WPA, and a time when public infrastructure projects for pedestrians was a thing.

Thing about the WPA, it had a lot of really talented artists and sculptors contributed to public works, so you get some magnificently beautiful constructions, if you can find them.

Apparently a lot of landowners try to fence off or discourage access to the public walkways though, and there's an underground movement to keep access open to these public city spaces.

http://99percentinvisible.org/post/45876810693/episode-75-se...

joshuaheard• 13 years ago

Beaches in California are public only by historical accident. There are plenty of public beaches with facilities for visitors like lots of beach space, parking, restrooms, and restaurants. Santa Monica, for instance is about 15 minutes from Malibu and has all that. Why is the homeowner the bad guy for wanting a little privacy without hordes of people partying all night in his back yard, blocking his parking, leaving fast food trash everywhere, and pissing in his bushes?

comrade_ogilvy• 13 years ago

While I do sympathize with the homeowners when it comes to resenting poor behavior by visitors, that thing you are calling "his backyard" is not his. He never paid for it.

English Common Law encodes many centuries of traditions about easement for travel. This topic is not a new thing. That an area might bear ever more visitors over the march of years is just a fact of life.

towski• 13 years ago

Why would you drive all the way up to Malibu when LA has an uninterrupted stretch of beach that is 50 miles long?

kristopolous• 13 years ago

This has been thoroughly covered in the NYT, on BBC, and NPR weeks ago. Is this news to anyone still?

unclebucknasty• 13 years ago

I'm thinking if you pay me $30K to port a relatively simple IOS UI to Android, then that is the business. No need to sell anything (else).

buza• 13 years ago

"Malibu homeowners intentionally obscure public beach access areas with fake signs and hidden access. This is not only ridiculously selfish, it is illegal."

Better or worse than just flat out preventing access whatsoever?

http://www.indiawest.com/news/9799-Surfers-Sue-for-Access-to...

jmspring• 13 years ago

Reminds me of the challenges Half Moon Bay is having with Vihnod Kholsa and beach access. At least, when they sue, the Malibu residents own up to it -- see Streisand vs Adelman. Vihnod is hiding behind things. sad.

http://www.pehub.com/2013/03/15/the-surfrider-foundation-tak...

bonchibuji• 13 years ago

'Right to roam' in Nordic countries comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

arethuza• 13 years ago

Not just Nordic countries, we have in Scotland as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Scotland

victorology• 13 years ago

Wow, they could use this for Hawaii. We deal with a lot of the same stuff here.

wilfra2• 13 years ago

I'm in Santa Monica (just down the road from Malibu) right now and decided to go checkout the public access path next to David Geffen's house[1] after reading this today.

I was able to park across the street with no problem (plenty of spaces) and walk alongside his house onto the beach. I walked really far and passed many people who I assume were homeowners based on how they were dressed (no shoes/bags/purses or beach toys) and acting (walking close to the houses etc). All offered polite smiles and several let their dogs run up to me and seemed to expect me to pet/play with them. Not a single person gave me an odd or disapproving look - though one couple (really old white guy with a 20-something black girl) went pretty far out of their way to avoid the path I was walking on. I figured at least one of them was famous or something, as the reason.

When I was leaving though, I went back past Geffen's house (only way out) and what I assume was his private security guard (plainclothes but looked like a Marine) came walking straight at me staring at me and then got in a car in the driveway. I look across the street to my car and I see a cop car parked in the turning late in the middle of the road with two cops in it. I decided to take an extra long time wiping the sand off of my feet to soak it all in. The security guy eventually pulled the car out of the driveway and alongside the cops, I assume they were talking through open windows but with traffic and distance couldn't hear. Then the guy pulls his car in front of the cops in the turning lane, does a U-Turn and parks right in front of my car on the opposite side of the street.

There was no cross-walk and I didn't want to give the cops a reason to legally harass me, so I walked on the sidewalk right in front of David Geffen's house and gestured to the cops asking if I could cross the street illegally. They both just sorta shrugged and looked back at traffic and nodded - meaning if you want to risk getting hit by a car, go for it.

So after a couple of minutes with these cops staring right at me, I find an opening and dart over to my car. The whole time the security dude is still sitting there parked in front of my car. I put my stuff inside and pull away, on the left two cops are staring at me driving off and on the right the security dude is also staring at me. I waved to all three of them and drove away.

So I can confirm the beach is public and the homeowners seem like really nice people who don't mind that at all - other than David Geffen, who seems to try to use his private security and the police to intimidate people into not using the path.

I'm taking a date back there tomorrow.

[1]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/fashion/sundaystyles/05bea...

sireat• 13 years ago

This sounds right out of Raymond Chandler's The Big Sleep (or Big Lebowski if one wants something more modern)

thehme• 13 years ago

When access is blocked illegally, it is just totally wrong and this app will certainly help those who just want to enjoy some beach time. It would be nice if the entire coast could have an app like this, on both East and West...oh and South.

Malibu homeowners foiled by $30K Kickstarter campaign

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