World's Dumbest Rebrand?

http://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/worlds-dumbest-rebrand.html

by yesplorer • 13 years ago

75 95 13 years ago

rparet• 13 years ago

...or it's rebranding to match the name of its parent company, Japanese-based Rakuten. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakuten

Posibyte• 13 years ago

I wouldn't call them crazy. Rakuten is a Japanese brand that bought Buy.com. I believe they're just consolidating. Is it an unmemorable, weird name? Yeah, but it isn't like someone sat in a room and said "You know what I think? I think Rakuten would sound much better than Buy."

Bad ideas and poor execution happen a lot, but this was a planned move that has some meaning behind it.

davemel379• 13 years ago

Can you find one brand using a generic and relevant to the category name dominate a category? Branding is not just a go with your gut instinct...it is a science that analyzes all the Kleenex, xerox, and googles of the world, the categories that are owned by brands and figures out what works... Generic brands like apple and amazon are not relevant generic terms to their category so it can be associated in the mind with that category.

ig12• 13 years ago

Facebook

(I'm getting downvoted because presumably people don't realize Facebook was a common generic term used for the book universities gave to students with photos, etc. of other student to encourage socialization at the start of the year)

ansgri2• 13 years ago

Though I don't know of any international ones, there should be regional examples. E.g. mail.ru. Though now it lost its first place to yandex.ru.

It seems like those who own generic names are getting too old to be competitive.

lunchbox• 13 years ago

  - 1-800-FLOWERS
  - 1-800-CONTACTS
  - hotels.com

notahacker3• 13 years ago

Buy.com is no more generic than American Airlines or Deutsche Bank, or Sky, or Claro.

There's a huge number of brands that use the [nation] [generic term] format, including many major international banks, airlines, and utility companies many of which totally dominate their domestic market and/or are significant internationally

Even if you're looking at the world's biggest brands and companies, then IBM, GE, GM, FedEx, NBC, BBC and even the likes of Microsoft and Coca-Cola are clearly abbreviations of very generic terms. A significant proportion of the rest are simply people's names. For all the "science" and lack thereof that goes into brand investments, generic names tend to last and "cute" names often turn out to be short-lived gimmicks

jonknee3• 13 years ago

Diapers.com, Ancestry.com and 1-800-CONTACTS come to mind. Hotels.com, Staples.com, Drugstore.com and Overstock.com may be close. Some like Pets.com obviously didn't work out.

Update: stamps.com and audible.com are also good examples.

philwelch5• 13 years ago

"Xerox" was meant to be generic, since the technology is called "xerography".

Sayter2• 13 years ago

Given that Kleenex is just "Clean-X" and Xerox is just "Xero(graphy)-X" (they were known as Haloid before commercializing xerography and rebranding), those two names are actually just an "X" away from being generic.

sek2• 13 years ago

This way you are also able to sponsor international events like the Olympics, not possible with buy.com.

snogglethorpe• 13 years ago

> Is it an unmemorable, weird name?

Another way of putting that is "unique"—and unique names are very valuable, both classically for establishing identity, but even more so these days: You want google searches for your name to end up on your site, not giving vague "everything on the internet" results.

Of course the real reason here is that Rakuten is an enormous steamroller in Japan (basically: Japan's version of Amazon), and if they're going to consolidate, they're hardly going to change the familiar name that's accompanied their success, especially not for some vague generic term.

[Recently I've happened to read various stories on "inc.com" and they've all been absolutely idiotic. Does anybody actually read this site?!]

qnk• 13 years ago

Let's picture a similar situation 20 years ago: I own the domain "books.com" but my company is called Amazon. I own the domain "movies.com", but I choose to name my company Netflix.

Believe me, we'll get used to the Rakuten name.

ansgri2• 13 years ago

The funny thing is, books.com --> B&N, but we use Amazon, and for movies.com we all know IMDB.

Someone owns ask.com, and they say it's a search engine, but I can't overcome the feeling that they're just spammers, as the name is too generic.

nhebb• 13 years ago

The problem with Buy.com is that "buy" is a word (or call to action), not a brand. I've probably seen the buy.com URL around here or there, but the word is so pedestrian, it doesn't ring any bells.

dakimov• 13 years ago

But "buy.com" is a brand, and extremely valuable both as a brand and as a domain.

sbarre• 13 years ago

I shop online all the time, I've never been to buy.com

svckr• 13 years ago

This. I have never been to buy.com, but it kind of reminds me of that asking site with the red dot logo and ads plastered all over it. What's its name again?

Calling out Rakuten for "meaning nothing to most people" is kind of silly. What about Pepsi then?

eps• 13 years ago

Tell it to Best Buy :)

kmfrk• 13 years ago

"Buy" would be "Bai" in Japanese. It depends entirely on the audience and the brand.

Maybe it'll be marketed as Rakuten in Japan and Buy.com in the West?

sirn• 13 years ago

Japan already has Rakuten.co.jp, which is a parent company of Rakuten.com.

I believe they're simply rebranding all of their international chain to match the parent name. AFAIK most of their international store already using the Rakuten brand except in few countries that is a result of a buyout. (Buy.com in US, Play.com in UK, PriceMinister in France and TARAD.com in Thailand)

seanmcdirmid• 13 years ago

Or in Chinese, bai could mean white or hundred.

Rakuten sounds like Rasputin, a good Russian brand?

iamben2• 13 years ago

Rakuten also bought Play.com, the UK store selling video games, DVDs and music. Whilst Rakuten is now pushed pretty heavily on the site, the URL is still Play.com and the Play.com branding remains.

Curious as to why they wouldn't/aren't do(ing) the same for Buy.com?

makomk• 13 years ago

Technically, play.com isn't actually a UK store - they're based in Jersey which isn't part of the UK and isn't subject to UK or EU consumer protection laws.

iamben2• 13 years ago

Sure, it is based in Jersey - but for as long as I can remember (10+ years?) the site has been aimed at UK shoppers.

blisterpeanuts• 13 years ago

It's easier for English speakers to remember buy.com than rakuten (or whatever their name is).

It's weird to go to buy.com and see a different name plastered all over the screen.

They have a right to call their business whatever they like, but for God's sake, why throw away a perfectly good brand?

laurent123456• 13 years ago

Rakuten seems to be buying many online retailers recently. They've also bought Priceminister in France. Renaming buy.com, and maybe later Priceminister, might be part of an effort to unify all these online retailers under one recognizable name.

jfaucett• 13 years ago

Personally, I don't think "rakuten" is any wierder than Toyota or Nissan. It might take some time getting used to but rakuten is a name that has branding potential, what is "buy"? For a similar analogy, try imagining a company that sells computers calling itself computer. I think we'd all agree a rebranding would probably be in order.

davemel379• 13 years ago

You are absolutely correct. I still have no idea what buy.com is because its generic. In general rebranding is a bad idea because once someone has a perception of the brand its hard to change their mind. Using a brandable term in this case will at least let them start over...but with all the traffic from buy.com

sek2• 13 years ago

I second this, when you are ambitious to build a global brand this makes totally sense. A generic domain can be a liability, because it's almost impossible to make advertising for "buy". Isn't there Best Buy?

Brand strategy is very interesting and complicated, Quickster was a bold attempt to boost the streaming platform.

cm2012• 13 years ago

I totally agree. We sell jewelry on Buy.com (among other places), and I saw the CEO speak at a conference we were invited to. He's a pretty visionary guy and I wouldnt bet against him.

Lagged2Death• 13 years ago

Personally, I don't think "rakuten" is any wierder than Toyota or Nissan.

Perhaps, but it's worth noting that Toyota and Nissan took something like 20-30 years of persistence to gain respect and success in the American marketplace.

what is "buy"?

noun a bargain: The couch was a real buy.

I think "buy.com" wasn't a particularly good name, but even without ever having any dealings with buy.com, I could guess that it was a discounter of some sort.

It's doubtful I'll remember the name "Rakuten" or the way its spelled.

glenstein• 13 years ago

I find "Rakuten" to be memorable precisely because it can individuate itself and "be" a brand. "Buy" is overfamiliar to the point of being invisible.

philwelch5• 13 years ago

Toyota and Nissan took so long because of anti-Japanese racism left over from the war, shortly followed by anti-Japanese racism over American insecurity about Japan's growing economic power. Since that stopped being a thing, there's been zero resistance to East Asian brands.

slurry• 13 years ago

>Perhaps, but it's worth noting that Toyota and Nissan took something like 20-30 years of persistence to gain respect and success in the American marketplace.

I had a great uncle who used to get drunk rant about how (this is probably in the early 60s) "Teeyota" was the way of the future. Everybody laughed.

rdouble2• 13 years ago

Rakuten is not weirder than "Amazon," either.

lukethomas• 13 years ago

Something to think about - Rakuten means optimism in Japan, but it's an opportunity to build a brand everywhere else. The Rakuten brand is a "empty glass" which means the company can brand itself in any way it wants.

microtherion• 13 years ago

Maybe they’re rewriting the site infrastructure in Rakudo at the same time…

vacri• 13 years ago

The rebranding of 'Farnell' to 'element 14' was far dumber than this.

nwh• 13 years ago

Why not just call yourself 'carbon' and be done with it?

shelf• 13 years ago

same logic as hello.com

wyuenho• 13 years ago

This might have to do with Rakuten bought buy.com in 2010[1] and is now bringing their property under the same name.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakuten.com

alanctgardner2• 13 years ago

I'm curious about why Rakuten would even want Buy.com... I've never heard of buy.com before, they seem like a spammy, domain-squatting type site. I'm guessing what happened is Rakuten picked them up for their existing backend infrastructure and staff, and they're going to make the front-end a more North American version of their existing Japanese site. Their current 'global' site is pretty disappointing, mostly just focused on Japanese-made exports, where the Japanese one sells damn near everything (including food).

davemel379• 13 years ago

I never heard of rakuten until last week when I saw their CEO is keynoting at this years IRCE show. I even made a mental note to Google him later this week. now I dont need to. I am sure the site has lots of traffic and I'm sure the domain has lots of market liquidity, so its a real income producing asset.

brudgers• 13 years ago

Buy.com is not generally associated with quality merchandise. A rebranding makes sense if the enterprise is will be repositioned as something other than Big Lots on the internet.

arbuge2• 13 years ago

"This rebrand is so crazy that I have to assume that somebody inside the company has gone insane."

It gets weirder. The CEO of the company (a man I respect alot) is Japanese but switched the company's "official language" to English and insisted that all his Japanese employees learn English.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7olItNyBfo

Apparently the policy doesn't extend to domain names.

jacquesm• 13 years ago

I'd say those are both the kind of moves where it is hard to tell up front if they're insane or actually inspired.

LeonidasXIV• 13 years ago

Actually, considering that Rakuten is really trying to expand internationally, it is a really bold move to change the official language to get employees to look a bit over the horizon.

Have you ever used the original japanese Rakuten site? It is incredibly awful, just like many other japanese sites, because in Japan the focus is on different things. But if you try to expand with this mentality to the west, you are going to fail and people will laugh at your crappy attempts.

So actually, I think this move is incredibly smart.

rdouble2• 13 years ago

Why is changing the official language to English weird? It's a necessary move if they want to expand internationally.

Japanese as an official language makes it impossible to hire almost anyone experienced with large scale e-commerce.

arbuge2• 13 years ago

To clarify, I didn't think the changing to English was weird - I think that was a smart and bold move. Like I said, I really respect this guy.

Was only thinking that changing the domain name to Japanese was weird, especially in view of the aforementioned change to English.

hackerboos• 13 years ago

Another dumbest rebrand that comes to mind is Moneybookers rebranding to Skrill.

anandkulkarni• 13 years ago

Except that Skrill is 4x faster to say, is far shorter to type in, and is slang for "money".

notahacker3• 13 years ago

I must say I've never met anyone that uses "skrill" as slang for money, and if I did I probably wouldn't trust them to look after it. Similarly, Moolah is 4x faster to say and type than Bank of America but I don't see the rebrand happening any time soon.

cedricd• 13 years ago

Does it bother anyone else that Inc got the story wrong? I thought they were supposed to be somewhat journalistic .It took me < 30 sec on the site to find out that Buy.com had been bought by the Rakuten group. The post author is suggesting that Buy.com simply decided to change their name -- instead their owners want to slap their own name on it. Maybe silly, but not crazy.

Terretta• 13 years ago

I got the story right in this HN submission two weeks ago by simply linking to Rakuten's About page:

"Buy.com renamed Rakuten Shopping: brilliant branding or massive mistake?"

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5176774 -> http://www.rakuten.com/ct/aboutus.aspx

As for the "journalist's" editorial, I was able to cover that in the submission title. Not much value add in this Inc article.

The rename did get me to give buy.com a new try.

I found something I couldn't find on Amazon there, and spent $300 on it. And two weeks later, I do remember the name. So, going with "brilliant".

lancewiggs• 13 years ago

Moreover Inc pops up spammy surveys and other elements. It was the second Inc link from HN today, and I'll now be trying to avoid them in the future.

cool-RR• 13 years ago

Fun fact: The name Rakuten sounds similar to the name of a medication against acne used by teenagers in Israel.

jamesdelaneyie• 13 years ago

Roaccutane? I used it in my teens here in Ireland.

philwelch5• 13 years ago

In America we just call it Accutane. It's the one with all the terrible side effects, right?

dutchbrit• 13 years ago

Weird. They spent so long working on the buy.com brand, and now they've chosen a new name - harder to remember, harder to type in. The meaning behind Rakuten, 'optimism', doesn't really fit what they do either. I'd love to know who decided to rebrand buy.com to this, and why.

Sayter2• 13 years ago

Rakuten was chosen because that's the company that purchased buy.com in 2010. They're basically the Amazon of Japan.

sunwooz• 13 years ago

Buy.com is such a generic name, it's hard to associate any kind of unique brand to it. Rakuten is only 7 letters long and is associated with a meaning? Yeah!

exit• 13 years ago

> Why would you want to position away from a URL name that has a universal, positive meaning and replace it with something that means nothing to almost everyone.

for the record, "buy" does not universally have a positive meaning. i am sick of buying stuff.

rachelbythebay• 13 years ago

My favorite was "USAir" to "US Airways".

Soon, it too will be moot.

amorphid• 13 years ago

It isn't that dumb from my perspective. I've never purchased anything from Buy.com. Now that I've heard of Rakuten, I will at least check it out.

damoncali• 13 years ago

The interesting part is that so many HN readers appear to be too young to remember Buy.com as a brand. That, to me, says more about their inability to market themselves than the value of the brand, which was quite strong back in the day.

franze• 13 years ago

inc.com should not talk about "dumb" i just tried to read the article on a mobile device. it was the worst possible ux experience i ever had, even worse than your standard swipeware.

bhauer• 13 years ago

Just some anecdotal evidence to confirm the OP. One of my e-mail aliases, apparently the one I had set up for Buy.com (I did not pause to check), started receiving e-mails from this "Rakuten." I blacklisted the sender instantly.

The new name is abysmal.

Buy.com was already the shady back-alley version of Amazon, a domain I ventured into only when the price offered was notably better than its more above-board cousin. I don't mean to say Buy is a nefarious company, but rather my own admittedly ill-conceived notion of Buy was not (and is not) good. For all I know, they are a completely honest operation.

But with the new new name, I just instinctively and instantly turned off communication with the firm. Call it what you will, but an Asian-sounding name nudges the needle too far toward the greatest source of spam my aliases see. I have been trained by history. And my blacklist trigger finger is ready.

brandonb• 13 years ago

What this article doesn't mention is that Rakuten is the #7 site in Japan and one of the top 100 sites in the world. They bought buy.com and are consolidating brands. Although the name "Rakuten" isn't well-known to people in the U.S., given the brand they've built up in Japan, it's a perfectly rational decision to choose "Rakuten" as the umbrella name. It would be like eBay buying "auctions.com".

ChrisArchitect• 13 years ago

my first thought after reading this was couldn't the author not do some background research into the freaking marketing plan behind this or what the ad agency working on promotions was thinking....or like others have mentioned, the corporate merger history. 'Journalists'. geezus.

World's Dumbest Rebrand?

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