The shingles vaccine may reduce the risk of dementia

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2026/07/09/a-no-brainer-for-protecting-your-brain

by saikatsg • 10 days ago

277 204 10 days ago

economist.com

https://archive.ph/PzPop

robot_jesus3• 10 days ago

https://archive.ph/PzPop

sowbug• 10 days ago

Shingles vaccine, if you don't feel like clicking through.

blooalien• 10 days ago

Thank you.

dang• 10 days ago

Thanks! We've put shingles into the title above.

satya71• 10 days ago

TL;DR Shingles vaccines reduces chances of dementia by 20%. Yet, most countries health systems only look at the upfront cost of ~$300 and don’t recommend for all who could benefit.

MASNeo2• 10 days ago

In a separate article the other factors are quoted with similar impact (listed in order of max potential magnitude) - anti depression treatment - education increases - hearing improvement - obesity reduction - low alcohol

The earlier you start the better.

gruez2• 10 days ago

anti depression treatment - regular exercise - obesity reduction - education - less/no alcohol

Injecting people with a shingles vaccine is far easier than the others you listed, which is why it stands out.

WalterGR• 10 days ago

hearing improvement

This means addressing hearing loss, e.g. via hearing aids.

rsyring• 10 days ago

Can you share the article you reference?

SoftTalker4• 10 days ago

20% of what?

hatsunearu• 10 days ago

Should I get the shingles vaccine at a young age? I've had chickenpox earlier in my life.

jyounker4• 10 days ago

As someone who got shingles at about 46, yes.

tptacek14• 10 days ago

That may be the case in other countries, but in the US we're generally fee-for-service, so the incentives are reversed, and we still don't give it until you're 50 (which, as someone who has had it and is under 50, annoys me to no end).

ferongr• 10 days ago

Dementia largely affects people on a pension, and not working adults contributing to the pyramid scheme.

xelaboi• 10 days ago

This would be a good conspiracy theory if dementia was a short illness.

robot_jesus3• 10 days ago

I'm in my 40s with genetic predisposition for Alzheimer's. Been seriously considering the past year or two paying out of pocket for Shingrix. I think it would be ~$500 total for two doses.

Sure, I could wait 7 or 8 years until I qualify via insurance, but is that really worth the risk for what is an easily absorbed cost to me? Especially when I have a friend in her late 30s who just went through a very rough bout of shingles?

It makes sense to have targets like age 50 for population-wide public health recommendations. But it can and does infect people of much earlier ages.

Recent articles like this make me think I'll go ahead.

cyanydeez• 10 days ago

aside from age ranges being the tested population, your just gambling no other interference pattern is involved.

copperx2• 10 days ago

Shingles terrifies me because it can cause hearing loss. I spoke to my GP and he wouldn't give me a script for it even though I'm 3 years away from qualifying. He mentioned side effects.

jyounker4• 10 days ago

That seems like being penny wise and pound foolish.

bitwize2• 10 days ago

My A1C popped high, so I could get Shingrix 2 years before the nominal minimum age, paid for by insurance, on the technicality of having a T2D diagnosis. My blood sugar is much more under control now, but that's a nice little side benefit I won't hesitate to take advantage of. The most severe side effect for me was long term muscle pain near the injection site (even now 10 months after I got the shot). But it's totally worth it because the pain of shingles is far, far worse as I understand it.

dr_kiszonka• 10 days ago

"An increased risk of Guillain-Barré syndrome (severe muscle weakness) was observed after vaccination with SHINGRIX"

https://www.shingrix.com/side-effects/

andy99• 10 days ago

I read before that iirc because of waning protection it’s better not to get it too early. It’s not clear to me why you can’t get it twice, but what I read (and it was some online discussion so could be wrong) was that someone had been specifically told by their doctor to wait to 50 as the best spot to get it. I’d like to know more, I’m in my 40s and would be happy to get it now too but not if it was going to be worse overall for some reason.

anonym292• 10 days ago

The antibodies you develop to fight the virus fade over time. I just had it fairly recently (young 30s, vaccinated with the attenuated chickenpox virus, never had chickenpox, so this was likely the vaccine strain¹). Did a lot of reading and research during and after. The antibodies seem to offer good protection for 5-10 years following either vaccination or infection according to the literature I was reading.

¹ The vaccine strain tends to be much more mild than the wild strain, and indeed it was quite unpleasant, but not extremely painful for me. The wild strain is considerably more painful and linked to a greater incidence rate of complications. Please do not skip chickenpox vaccinations for your kids, the minor risk of latent infection from attenuated vaccine is far less harmful than the consequences of not vaccinating. Most important of all, if you have a cluster of blisters or rash on one side of your body that keep popping up, make sure to see a doctor and get on antivirals within the first 72 hours for best results.

AnotherGoodName• 10 days ago

But surely you can do a booster shot?

jghn• 10 days ago

My primary care suggested I hold off to mid-late 50s instead of right at 50 for this reason. Between not wanting shingles, and some of the newer research into neuroprotective angles I'm not sure I'm going to do this however.

goosejuice• 10 days ago

Hmm but as I understand it, dementia begins in your 30s. It's just that we don't see the signs of it until much later. So if it is protective, waiting doesn't seem wise (on the dementia side of it).

raverbashing• 10 days ago

Yeah

And you can absolutely get Shingles before 50 (in some cases)

InsideOutSanta3• 10 days ago

You absolutely can get it twice. It's currently not officially recommended, but that's probably just because Shingrix is relatively new, so booster shots aren't that relevant yet.

mlyle2• 10 days ago

I got shingles at 45 and it was -not fun-. My arm is slightly disfigured.

I think the age 50 target is dated. With reduced childhood incidence of chicken pox, we're all exposed to varicella zoster less, and it seems like the ages of incidence of shingles is falling. Public health recommendations are slow to catch up with research (especially for vaccinations, these days).

jyounker4• 10 days ago

Yeah, I came here to say the same thing. I got it around 46. The horrible looking stuff on the outside is also on the inside, and it weakens your internal tissues. I know this because I tore one of the muscles in my lower back, and it still causes problems.

zahlman2• 10 days ago

Japan was among the first countries to vaccinate for chickenpox. The vaccine developed by Hilleman was first licensed in the United States in 1995.[17][60]

People (well, Americans and Canadians at least) in their 40s now generally didn't get vaccinated as children, as their parents didn't have the option. It will be different for the next generation.

iambenm• 10 days ago

I got it around 36, and coincidentally a friend 5-6 years younger than me in a different part of the country got it at the same time.

My research at the time led me to the same conclusion: Since we've basically eradicated chickenpox, we're not exposed to the varicella zoster virus as much as previous generations (via children that have chickenpox). Without exposure our antibodies / resistance fade out.

Since we had chickenpox, the virus is already in us and dormant. When it wakes up and decides to do its thing, our bodies have forgotten how to fight it effectively compared to previous generations - and as a result, the incidence of shingles is increasing in younger populations compared to previous generations.

My doctor said vaccination for under 50 is only indicated after multiple occurrences of shingles... so here's to hoping I'm good til the guidelines change.

tptacek14• 10 days ago

Wait, you can just pay for the shingles vaccine, before you're 50? Where do I do that?

I had shingles in my 30s. It was the sickest I've ever been.

Aurornis2• 10 days ago

You can get basically any medication or vaccination you want in the US as long as you can find a doctor to write the prescription.

We even have anabolic steroids that were approved for muscle wasting in cancer patients, but if you can find a doctor willing to write the prescription and a pharmacy that won’t question it, anyone can have pharmacy grade Anavar for the gym, completely legal. In theory the doctor writing the prescription is putting their license at risk, but enforcement is so lax that there are “anti-aging” clinics all over that will prescribe testosterone and Anavar to anyone with a credit card.

So with a documented history of shingles you should have no problem getting a prescription written. It would be worth a quick check with your insurance company because it might even be covered if your doctor will fill out the form and attach evidence of the past diagnosis.

SoftTalker4• 10 days ago

If you just want to pay out of pocket or with an HSA, etc. you can get many vaccines at a pharmacy. Might need to check if there are limited hours for that service or appointments needed. Not sure if Shingrix is one of them.

Jolter2• 10 days ago

If you have already had shingles as an adult, aren’t you fairly well protected for the next ten years or so, at least? I’d wager that you are one of the people least at risk since your immune system is already primed and readying suppress the virus that’s latently infecting you.

bink• 10 days ago

Not exactly. My doctor wanted to start me on a medicine that would make me more likely to develop shingles so he asked me to get the vaccine series before he'd prescribe the medicine. I guess there's no such thing as a prescription for a vaccine, so I just went to my local pharmacy. I made the mistake of writing on the form that I had no health issues. The pharmacist came out and said because I wasn't 50 and had no health issues they weren't allowed to administer the vaccine. Even after I explained my condition and the doctor's request they still refused. They wouldn't even let me fill out a new form. I had to go to a different pharmacy which conveniently didn't ask about my current health status.

It's stupid too, because the question I answered "wrong" wasn't clear. It basically sounded like they were asking me if I currently had a cold or covid.

kaikai• 10 days ago

You can just ask for vaccines at the pharmacy. I got a potentially missed childhood vaccination as an adult and they asked a few questions about why I wanted it, but were happy to give it to me. If it’s something odd you might need to go to a travel clinic.

jakestein• 10 days ago

I'm in my 40s and asked my GP for it since I similar had a bad experience with it a few years ago. After warning me 3 times that it might not get covered by insurance, they gave it to me. I tried to get the second dose at a pharmacy, and they would not do it since I'm under 50. I got the second dose at my GP again a few months later.

InsideOutSanta3• 10 days ago

Most age recommendations do not prevent you from access, but determine whether the insurance will pay. I got both the shingles and HPV vaccines despite being outside the age bracket.

scrollop• 10 days ago

There were a few studies around 2022 showing the influenza vaccines and pneumoccocal vaccines reduce alzheimers (influenza by up to a whopping 40%!).

I tell me patients this to increase uptake, so we can reduce alzheimer's prevalence.

(I'm a doctor)

hn_throwaway_992• 10 days ago

Do you have a link to these studies? I ask because, as another commenter mentioned, I think it would be very difficult to tease out cause and effect and I think the "healthy vaccinee" hypothesis could easily explain why so often you see the association between any vaccine (just here we have shingles, influenza and pneumococcal) and Alzheimer's risk reduction.

To be clear, I would get those vaccines regardless for their stated effectiveness, it just feels like so many observational conclusions ("moderate red wine is good for you!") have been proven to be non-causitive correlations when examined more closely.

Edit: Actually, the youtube link posted above talks about tons of vaccines where observational studies show reduced Alzheimer's risk: https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0?t=340

js22• 10 days ago

On the topic of vaccines, if you were vaccinated against measles before it switched to the two-dose schedule (1989 in the US), you might want to have your titers measured.

I was vaccinated in the early 70s when it was a single dose. With measles in the news recently, I asked my doc to add a measles antibodies test to my blood draw. Came back negative. No immunity. I went to the local pharmacy and got an MMR booster the next day.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/some-...

daft_pink• 10 days ago

If you were vaccinated on the normal schedule, what year would you generally be born to be vaccinated with the single dose?

zeckalpha• 10 days ago

My understanding is that they're not sure if the vaccine will last in your system for more than 30 years, and that subsequent doses may be less effective, so getting it early may weaken you later.

But I am with you. My personal bet is we'll know more about this by the time that becomes an issue.

The earliest cohorts of vaccinated children are approaching their 30s, so we should learn about long term efficacy this decade.

dualvariable• 10 days ago

they're not sure if the vaccine will last in your system for more than 30 years

Vaccines don't really last in your system more than a few days (although some cells get dragged off to the lymph nodes and get harshly interrogated for longer than that). It is the T-cell and B-cell responses that are persistent for years.

and that subsequent doses may be less effective

They should activate B cells that you already have and produce high-affinity mature antibodies.

robot_jesus3• 10 days ago

It's a fair callout, but for me (and increased propensity for Alzheimer's) the calculus is a bit different. Making to to my mid-70s with full mental faculties would easily be worth the tradeoff of an increasing likelihood of shingles at that point. And besides, I would presume I would be able take the vaccine again?

anarticle• 10 days ago

I feel like we've probably spent more for less! Any interaction with the medical industry for less than 1k feels like a steal to me.

reenorap3• 10 days ago

This finding of shingles and dementia is likely due to “healthy vaccinee” bias as per the link someone else posted below:

https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0?is=XJ0c5pWVV6Lg0IMs

As per one of the slides around 7 minutes in, there are many vaccines that show a 20-40% reduction in mortality and dementia.

The talk above basically says that “observational studies” may show great results, like the so-called protective action of the shingles vaccine against dementia. However when brought to a well designed RCT all those benefits don’t actually show up. And the speaker shows later on that the shingles vaccines shows a marked benefit for shingles but nothing for dementia.

gdudeman5• 10 days ago

This really isn't the case in the Shingles vaccine unless the UK study is flawed a way that isn't clear to me.

The study looked at the effect of being eligible for a vaccine and the results were clear. (see chart below the fold here: https://erictopol.substack.com/p/the-shingles-vaccine-and-re...)

There was a hard age cutoff in the UK study. Above a certain age, you weren't eligible. Below it, you were. People who were born in the "can get the vaccine" group have markedly lower rates of dementia. People in the "too old" group have higher rates. It's one of those studies where you don't even need to look at the p-value to see the difference.

I'm very open to being wrong about this!

timanderson• 9 days ago

Great video, thanks for the link.

OutOfHere• 10 days ago

Most people, especially those under the vaccination age of 50, with a weak immune system don't supplement a correct dose of basic immune boosting supplements like vitamin D3 (4-6 KIU), zinc (15-25 mg), selenium (200 mcg), and beta glucan, which typically is why they have a weak immune system in the first place. Safely boosting your immune system's baseline will protect you not just against opportunistic shingles but various other things too.

WalterBright• 10 days ago

When covid struck, I went and got revaccinated for the usual - MMR, Polio, etc.

gdudeman5• 10 days ago

People who are immune compromised qualify for this. I'm not sure how much your insurance company would push back on that though.

greg7mdp• 10 days ago

Got the shingrix vaccine for free at my county health center, even though it was not covered by my insurance. Worth checking.

throwaway20372• 9 days ago

If you have any developing countries nearby (holiday, etc.), you can usually get it cheaper at a clinic. I get my vaccines (when on holiday) in Thailand here: https://www.thaitravelclinic.com/vaccine-price-list/

hereme8889• 10 days ago

Replicated association, which is strong, but not proof. Initial study saw a 3.5% absolute reduction in dementia diagnoses over seven years with a very wide confidence interval. In Australia the study was replicated with 1.8% absolute reduction over 7.4 yrs. Canadian replication: 2% over 5.5 yrs.

Infections generally increase the risk of future dementia. Like the more colds you have throughout life.

gruez2• 10 days ago

Replicated association [...]

"association" undersells it a bit, because the data is better than the typical cohort study, which has issues like "what if people who got the vaccine are also richer and care about their health more?". There's quasi-randomization going on. From the more in depth article that's linked:

Research is also revealing unexpected interventions that help to keep ageing minds sharp. One of the most promising derives from an analysis by Pascal Geldsetzer of Stanford University and his team of a natural experiment in Wales. In 2013 the British region started offering people aged 70-79 free vaccinations through the public-health system. This change resembled an RCT, in that a large number of people were separated almost at random into two groups: those who had already turned 80 in the weeks before the programme started, and so were not eligible to be jabbed; and those who turned 80 in the weeks after, roughly half of whom were duly vaccinated.

alfiedotwtf2• 10 days ago

like the more colds you have in life

Whoa wait what? This is the first time I’ve heard of this - is this actually common knowledge?

hereme8889• 10 days ago

Not common knowledge, but should be in this day and age. For example, someone who worked in daycare and often got sick with the flu or similar, has a higher risk of dementia (statistically-speaking).

When I learned it, it was in the context of the influenza and similar common viruses.

It's actually more nuanced than that. If you want to read more: https://www.openevidence.com/ask/bccc3cc2-e15d-4fb0-a0c5-16f...

pocksuppet2• 10 days ago

This isn't common knowledge. This is something people (non-experts) are starting to infer, because we're seeing it with Long COVID - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48877214 - but there's no reason to think this is something special about SARS-CoV-2 - it could just as well happen with all viral infections but we weren't looking.

It reminds me that we didn't look at vaccine efficacy at the individual level until SARS-CoV-2. People were getting upset that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines only have a moderate chance to stop you getting the virus, and usually lessen its impact if you do get it, and calling this an ineffective vaccine. But the truth is, we have no idea whether every previous vaccine was also like that, because we only ever looked at the population level: when lots of people get the vaccine, the virus dies out.

hobo123• 10 days ago

I wonder if infections do not cause more dementia, but are simply correlated with more. A weaker immune system may trigger many many things.

And similar questions about obesity "causing" many diseases, sunburns causing skin cancer (although that sounds somewhat plausible) etc.

tptacek14• 10 days ago

There isn't a causal mechanistic link between shingles and Alzheimers. We don't know why the Shingrix vaccine reduces incidence of Alzheimers.

(You should very much want to avoid any chance of getting shingles, though; it's a nightmare.)

hereme8889• 10 days ago

The shingles virus hides in the nervous system and can come back out when immune control weakens. It causes inflammation and nerve injury, sometimes severe enough to leave people with chronic pain. From there, it’s reasonable to theorize that it could also affect the brain and even its glymphatic system over time.

SoftTalker4• 10 days ago

I'm one of those people (knock on wood) who never gets sick. I never get colds or seasonal flu, and I don't get routine flu vaccines. Never got COVID either, even when several people in the house had it (I did get the J&J vaccine for that, however).

I did have chicken pox as a kid, but have not had shingles nor the vaccine (yet). A co-worker was laid up for a week after his shingles vaccine, but that's obviously just one data point.

But, I've been considering getting the Shingrix series even if I have to pay for it. I turn 60 this year. Shingles doesn't sound fun.

laluser• 10 days ago

Just curious, do you have children? Do you socialize pretty freely during all seasons indoors?

chasil5• 10 days ago

Your thymus shuts down in your 80s, and you will make no more new T cells.

I also understand that a third of the elderly will have shingles by their 80s if unvaccinated.

syntaxing• 10 days ago

I know quite a few people who got shingles in their early 20s. One of their doctors didn’t believe she had shingles until the blisters formed. The vaccine can definitely help those younger than 50, dementia benefits or not. Some of them have permanent nerve damage after getting shingles.

jliptzin• 10 days ago

My brother had it when he was 17

selimthegrim2• 10 days ago

I had it at 14

antaviana• 10 days ago

So if you had shingles in your youth then you are better protected against dementia?

dymk• 10 days ago

The article says that one possible reason the vaccine protects against dementia is incidental protection from other diseases. Getting chickenpox as a kid might protect you against shingles, but maybe not against those other diseases.

tptacek14• 10 days ago

No! The opposite thing is true. Getting chickenpox as a kid drastically increases your likelihood of getting shingles as an adult. The initial chickenpox infection is the mechanism by which you're set up for shingles: you get it, fight it back, and it remains dormant in your nerves. Shingles is not simply chickenpox; it's the secondary infection you get from a resurgent zoster outbreak based in your nerves.

Don't get chickenpox.

bitwize2• 10 days ago

Getting chicken pox as a kid means you already have the H. zoster virus in your system, and when you get older as your immune system weakens, it may come out for a second go around, manifesting as shingles. Having had chicken pox as a kid is one of the reasons why I got my Shingrix as soon as I was able.

guilhas• 8 days ago

Chickenpox vaccination does increase shingles cases, but mainly in young adults https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150811103555.h...

tptacek14• 10 days ago

No, the opposite. If you've had shingles before, you're more likely to get it again later, not less.

jagged-chisel• 10 days ago

They asked about dimentia

therein• 10 days ago

Not really, shingles is a lifetime infection. You'd be more likely.

NetMageSCW3• 10 days ago

RIF

khriss2• 10 days ago

Recently, even the TDAP (Tetanus) vaccine was correlated with lower incidence of dementia https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26919881

I recall seeing a few discussions on HN comments hypothesizing that immune system stimulation via the vaccine might be the root cause. Now that the Amyloid hypothesis is on the wane, hopefully we'll explore other paths.

zahlman2• 10 days ago

the Amyloid hypothesis is on the wane

Oh? What did I miss?

Terr_• 10 days ago

I think the short version is that people have developed a lot of things to substantially reduce the levels in human brains, but in practice is doesn't seem to be yielding clearly-good results.

khriss2• 10 days ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32183302

TL;DR A lot of evidence supporting the Amyloid hypothesis is suspect.

what_hn• 10 days ago

Is it also possible they're finding healthier people that are proactive in their treatment, maybe even exercise more, work longer, etc...

modeless2• 10 days ago

Good guess. The actual mechanism is that people who don't get the vaccination are more likely to need to visit the hospital to treat their shingles, and because they visit the hospital more they have more chances to get a diagnosis of dementia in a hospital. See this presentation: https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0

The lesson is to be extremely suspicious of findings of causation based on observational studies.

runeks• 9 days ago

Good guess. The actual mechanism [...]

Why couldn't both these factors contribute to the result of the study?

WarOnPrivacy• 10 days ago

PSA: For us uninsured, the shingles vaccine costs ~$500 out of pocket (>$250 x2).

I want folks to get it but - I feel "Just Get It" admonitions carry a vibe that the cost is negligible.

cubefox3• 10 days ago

Most of the evidence of its anti-dementia effect relates to an earlier version of the vaccine, which used a weakened form of the live virus. It has since been largely replaced by a new one, Shingrix, which contains just a sprinkling of proteins from the virus and is seen as safer because it cannot cause an infection.

Unfortunately the apparent anti-dementia effect of this old vaccine (Zostavax) recently turned out to be a statistical illusion: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qlTnnQytOJ0

It is not clear whether the effect from Shingrix (the new one) is real or not. We currently don't have a case-control study which could prove causation.

ChrisMarshallNY• 10 days ago

I had the vaccine, last year (but I’m 64).

Hoowee, it made me sick, but only for a day (twice, as you get a booster, six months later).

Had chickenpox (and measles, at the same time), when I was a kid. That was fun.

My mother used to get recurring bouts of the shingles. Definitely not fun.

jeffbee3• 10 days ago

Yeah I got this last week and I felt like I got hit by a bus 12 hours later. The pharmacist claimed the second dose is worse. But getting the disease is no picnic at all. I had it in my 20s and it was like someone kept stabbing me in the eye, all day long for a week.

jonatron• 10 days ago

I got shingles after the covid vaccine, which is a rare but statistically highly significant risk: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35470920/ . Both covid and shingles sucked, luckily it was years ago now.

modeless2• 10 days ago

Unfortunately this is a spurious finding. See this presentation: https://youtu.be/qlTnnQytOJ0

The mechanism is that people with the shingles vaccine are less likely to visit the hospital (because they don't get shingles). Because they have fewer hospital visits they are less likely to receive an incidental diagnosis of dementia from a hospital.

teravor• 10 days ago

are there that many instances of mild dementia where a lack of diagnosis remains a lack?

asdff• 10 days ago

Well it does tend to happen late in life where other health issues could take you out before the dementia gets noticeable beyond usual senility.

dlcarrier• 10 days ago

There's also this whole thing: https://xkcd.com/882/

There's countless treatments and countless diseases. It is very much worth combing data to find treatments with potential off-label uses, but with that many combinations of treatments and diseases, much more care needs to go into eliminating not just non-causative correlations, but straight-up random correlations that have a very small probability of happening on their own, but are likely to happen in a large enough group of comparisons.

cubefox3• 9 days ago

Yes, though the above only addresses studies based on Zostavax. Shingrix might still offer some protection from dementia.

mullingitover• 10 days ago

Another is that the vaccination gives the immune system a firm kick up its B-cells, activating it against other bugs that might contribute to dementia.

It's weird that they kinda gloss over the very real and open questions here, because the idea that the AS01 adjuvant is involved in the dementia protection is very much alive and an ongoing topic. A paper from last year[1] looked into it and found that the Shingrix shingles vaccine and the RSV vaccine are about the same in their risk reduction for dementia (with a bunch of caveats).

I believe the current evidence point to the shingles vaccine helping, but also a protective effect happening from the AS01 adjuvant on its own.

I'm not a researcher but my layman's take is that the Economist whiffed it here, and there's a more interesting and complicated story to be told beyond this clickbait-adjacent science journalism.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12198376/

erelong• 10 days ago

...and there may be damaging side effects

while there are probably lots of accessible "natural" demetia remedies

that you can do without having to resort to experimental drugs that may cause more problems and cost more

kurthr• 10 days ago

But what if those unstudied accessible "natural" remedies have even more problems? Should we choose to do nothing, only study nothing, or just redefine what "natural" is?

NetMageSCW3• 10 days ago

What is experimental about the Shingrix vaccine?

panny• 10 days ago

HORSE PASTE!!! NO!!! NO MEDICINE HAS TWO USES!!! HORSE PASTE!!!

Did I do it right?

https://c19early.org/i

Edit: I just learned all the dementia patients have undiagnosed shingles. Please ignore my comment now. :-|

jeffbee3• 10 days ago

I mean, you conformed to the norms and customs of horsepaste quackery, and in that sense you "did it right". However, the science here is a little off-point. Ivermectin had observable benefits in some localities during the pandemic. In all likelihood, everyone who walks into a hospital for any reason in those countries should be given Ivermectin, because they all have undiagnosed parasites.

tsoukase• 10 days ago

Dementia might have dozens of risk factors, each adding up a little. Physical and emotional stress, insomnia, head microinjuries, arteriovascular risk factors, infections and there lies herpes zoster. Only the latter has a causal treatment and is only single stone on the wall of disease.

pstuart2• 10 days ago

I got shingles in my early 50s and did not know there were antivirals that could help mitigate its effects. I now have postherpetic neuralgia and the pain is not quite enough to off myself but the fact that I have to live with this for the rest of my life weighs me down.

It turns out that "pain management" is more art than science and almost all the pharma options out there come with significant risks and concerns. I ended up turning to kratom to manage the pain, which it does, but it's come at significant cost as well (addiction being one of them). I'm now going to try peptides (ARA-290 and BPC-157) to see if maybe that can help but it's all a crap shoot.

I share this as a warning/advice: get the vaccine if you can, even if insurance resists, push back. It may be worth it out of pocket IMHO. If you can't, remember to get access to antivirals immediately if you can.

jeffbee3• 10 days ago

The antiviral treatments for shingles are not very practical in that by the time you decide to visit the doctor it may already be too late for them to work.

pstuart2• 10 days ago

This may be the case, I haven't researched it deeply enough because it was already a day late and a dollar short.

I just asked The Goog and it said the answer is effectively "possibly, but nuanced". So you may be right but not completely ;-).

I'd still suggest doing it as its likely to have a positive risk/reward ratio. But better still is to get the vaccine.

Scoundreller2• 10 days ago

That’s why pharmacies are allowed to give them out directly here for shingles (Ontario Canada and possibly other provinces)

pengaru• 10 days ago

will we ever be free from the curse of believing correlation == causation

gdudeman5• 10 days ago

If you haven't seen the chart from the UK study, I highly recommend checking it out: https://erictopol.substack.com/p/the-shingles-vaccine-and-re...

When the vaccine came out in the UK, they included a hard age cutoff: Above a certain age, you weren't eligible. Below that age, you were eligible.

They looked at the probability of a dementia diagnosis over the 7 years after the vaccine was introduced.

People who were born in the "can get the vaccine" group have markedly lower rates of dementia. People in the "too old" group have higher rates. It's cut and dry. The researchers didn't separate out the people who actually got the vaccine.

It's one of those studies where you don't even need to look at the p-value to see the difference between the cohorts.

leereeves2• 10 days ago

I think I'm failing to understand your subtext. Obviously older people have higher rates of dementia. A study reporting that doesn't tell us anything about the effect of the vaccine.

gdudeman5• 10 days ago

Sorry - the older group has higher rates of dementia than the younger group when they reach the same age - so when they reach 75, they're more likely to have dementia.

atleastoptimal• 10 days ago

So much of neurodegeneration has turned out to be the effects of latent viruses in the body. HSV-1 is correlated with developing dementia along with many respiratory viruses.

Scoundreller2• 10 days ago

I can’t wait to see what happens when we have an Epstein-Barr virus vaccine.

Nition• 10 days ago

Looks like there's no difference in men, but a huge difference in women? What a weird situation.

pseudohadamard• 10 days ago

It's not even dementia, it's shingles itself. Two friends of mine had shingles in the last year or two, one of whom has a pain threshold at a level where I'm not entirely sure he's human ("I pulled the flesh back and you could see the bare bone, it was interesting, I've never seen my insides like that before"). After hearing their description of the pain levels involved I got a shot the next week.

My older neighbour also had it a few years ago, but in her case wasn't aware it was shingles, just some rash on her face. Doctors said if they hadn't stopped it within the next few days she'd have lost her sight.

Get the shot. You probably won't need it, but if you do then you'll really need it.

qnleigh• 10 days ago

Why on earth wouldn't you need to look at the P value? You give good arguments for the soundness is the methodology, but you still need to look at the results and their statistical significance.

Their P value is 0.02, which is good but certainly not definitive. Also the effect is kind of small, 3.5% reduction in diagnoses.

browski• 10 days ago

Never marrying may reduce risk of dementia:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/202504...

selimthegrim2• 10 days ago

I actually contracted shingles as a teenager (at the same time as mono - fun times) should I still take the vaccine?

stuaxo• 10 days ago

Wasn't this done with the previous shingles vacccine, not the current one ? If so this would need to be retested to be validated.

anotherevan• 10 days ago

Watching my mum's descent into dementia, if (when?) I ever go down the same route, I plan to have, "You have dementia, be calm," tattooed on one arm, and pictures of my loved ones tattooed on the other.

ivankra• 10 days ago

Not only shingles vaccine: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/eight-vaccines-linked-lowe...

cubefox3• 9 days ago

Some of these correlations could be merely due to the "healthy vaccinee effect": https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/healthy-vaccinee-e...

londons_explore• 10 days ago

This would seem to be a good reason to attempt to create an 'all disease' vaccine.

You would go round the nation taking samples from every sick person you could find, then inactivate them with radiation, then inject it as a vaccine.

realxrobau3• 9 days ago

It appears my wife (Australian, 49) may be suffering from shingles. So this was an apt time for this article to appear.

She's seen her Dr and swabs are being processed. She's on antivirals and painkillers and has a nasty fever.

Now I am horrified about how awful it can be, after reading all the comments in here.

The shingles vaccine may reduce the risk of dementia

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