MNT Reform is an open hardware laptop, designed and assembled in Germany

http://mnt.stanleylieber.com/reform/

by speckx • 3 months ago

307 109 3 months ago

mnt.stanleylieber.com

boesboes• 3 months ago

I've been looking into switching away from apple and try to buy more EU based services and products.

I love the concept and might just buy one to support the project, but I want something sleeker for my daily use. So I'm considering slimbook & tuxedo atm as buy-from-eu options.

dlahoda• 3 months ago

Where do you want it to be produced? Assembly is not production, essential parts production is.

szszrk• 3 months ago

Then you are left with no options at all. Raspberry pi, maybe.

F3nd04• 3 months ago

They’re also working on MNT Reform Next, which is the sleeker version. It should be coming soon-ish, so if you otherwise like (and can afford) the classic Reform, you might want to keep an eye on it.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next

vrganj• 3 months ago

It's UK-based, so not quite EU anymore unfortunately, but the Starbook looks like one of the sleeker options: https://starlabs.systems/pages/starbook

negura2• 3 months ago

+1 for starlabs. they make sleek looking devices with strong specs

yashasolutions• 3 months ago

Looks really cool!

ehnto• 3 months ago

Can you fly with stuff like this? I only wonder because of the battery setup. Very cool, I would personally use a regular track pad over the ball as I prefer as little mouse interaction as possible and it would stay out of the way better.

megasquid• 3 months ago

Have multiple times no problems.

olgierd• 3 months ago

Off the shelf LiFePo4 18650, marked capacity - not at all sketchy. 8 cells are way below the carry-on limit of 100 Wh.

ktallett3• 3 months ago

Yep, I have many times, no issues at all.

selfawaresoup2• 3 months ago

(on a Pocket Reform here)

The trackball stays out of the way very nicely when you don't need it and it uses a lot less space than a trackpad would.

silon422• 3 months ago

As it's not very small, it would be a lot cooler if it had a full no compromise TKL mechanical keyboard.

jogu7• 3 months ago

The keyboard uses low profile choc v1 mechanical switches. Aside from the split space bar this is about as close to a no compromise, standard layout as you can get I think.

silon422• 3 months ago

Switches might be OK, would have to try... but layout is a huge compromise.

irusensei• 3 months ago

I think 1450 EUR for a 16GB RK3588 is hard to justify. Is the Rockchip open to begin with?

I'd go for a framework using the Roma or CIX boards if I wanted to go for an "open hardware but not really" goal.

Palomides• 3 months ago

other than maybe some RAM related blobs I believe the mnt stuff is completely open in both ways

framework stuff is generally neither open hardware nor open software, intel and AMD don't permit it

M95D3• 3 months ago

RK3288 was true open source. It boots with just u-boot and no blobs. DDR init was done by u-boot code and armv7 didn't require a TEE.

RK3588 is "almost" open. It boots with mainline u-boot and device tree from the Linux kernel, but needs two blobs: the DDR training blob and the trustzone blob (BL31). It can run without a TEE OS. I recently heard that the BL31 is now open source, but I didn't look into it. Mainline kernel has support for everything, including 3d (panthor driver) and video codecs acceleration (you find it in the v4l submenu). Mainline Mesa driver (panfrost) also works, but... not great - it stutters/freezes when I move the mouse.

mghackerlady2• 3 months ago

What about in kernel binary blobs? Would something like GNUs linux-libre work on it?

bpye• 3 months ago

I believe the Mali graphics also require a blob if you want 3D acceleration.

unleaded2• 3 months ago

I thought it was an NXP i.MX? or did they make another revision

seba_dos12• 3 months ago

There are (were?) several SoC boards to choose from.

cmrdporcupine• 3 months ago

I have a couple of these RK3588 boards and frankly the story there is mostly pretty good, a bit better than other SBCs.

Recent Linux kernels are feasible. I'm using mostly stock Debian.

I use one as a Jellyfin/Plex/Immich/NAS server thing. Jellyfin is able to use the GPU for video decode. It works really well.

The other one is in mini-ITX form factor and I use it as a local Forgejo runner for CI jobs, and some other things.

I've managed to get a fork of Llama.cpp running that uses the NPU in these devices to (modestly) run LLMs, even. No real advantage, but neat.

I am satisfied enough that I've put an order in for the Next from these guys. Which would bring the number of RK3588 devices in the house to 3.

theodric• 3 months ago

You're paying for significant ground-up R&D and manufacturing costs that only marginally benefit from any economies of scale. (It's also an incredibly fucking robust machine!) This is not a MacBook Neo competitor. I think if it more as a product for the person who is bored of their quad core-swapped, nitrocaster-modded, corebooted ThinkPad X230, and wants a new, weirder toy laptop to hack around on.

exitb2• 3 months ago

It's an interesting concept, but perhaps a bit financially and environmentally wasteful, when you can get a 10 year old ThinkPad for 10% of the price that will perform roughly as well as this one. We don't need to bring more low-powered laptops into this world.

timschmidt2• 3 months ago

On the other hand, since all the design files are available, anyone can design an upgraded motherboard for this machine and keep all the other parts out of the landfill.

exitb2• 3 months ago

That’s true. It doesn’t even have to be just „anyone” as they sell compute module upgrades themselves. The thing it though, the old ThinkPads are already here, readily available. It’s still more environmentally conscious to get one every few years instead of buying a new compute module.

utopiah• 3 months ago

Maybe https://www.ifixit.com/News/94927/how-open-hardware-empowers... helps to get how it's different than "just" getting older hardware that had good repairability scores (indeed like ThinkPabs,cf https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-sc... ) namely that the idea isn't to "hijack" a locked-down supply chain and get cheap parts assembled anywhere. Rather it's to challenge that supply chain and open it up, which is indeed going to be expensive, maybe even environmentally wasteful (to clarify IMHO) at first but then long term will radically improve the situation.

whateverboat• 3 months ago

How are they better than framework? Looks a worse product for much higher prices.

miladyincontrol• 3 months ago

Agree, being weaker than an N100 I would argue by large it is already ewaste compared to just getting an old thinkpad or similar.

Its over engineered in some ways and woefully under engineered in others. Any real effort in making it more performant or trying to extend it's life will just generate more additional ewaste than it will save by just reusing existing hardware.

stonogo• 3 months ago

Good luck reusing that existing hardware when the bespoke battery is no longer available. As far as I know this is the only laptop maker with an open-access (open source?) charging circuit, no reverse-engineering needed.

Also there's a user story out there where a laptop is a mobile terminal and the actual processing power happens remotely in the cloud. With modern agentic workflows and how fast they're changing it makes sense to optimize for longevity on the client hardware.

jogu7• 3 months ago

I read this as "never buy new electronics because someones old used one is less e-waste".

The motherboard is modular and the compute part of this is replaceable, it's sort of the whole point.

The modules are mostly compatible between all of their products: MNT Reform, MNT Pocket Reform that are available now and the future MNT Reform Next (a more streamlined laptop) and the MNT Station (mini desktop pc).

catlikesshrimp2• 3 months ago

Fully free documentation and modding from scratch makes it possible to fix problems that go unsolved im commercial devices.

for instance, some intel cpus with ME could be hacked from both built in ethernet and wireless OUT OF BAND. The ME was accessible in commercial laptops, but since it was not "supported" the end user had no way of even disabling it.

opan• 3 months ago

It took me a while and a few regrettable purchases to come to terms with this, but you hit the nail on the head here. I tried to replace an old ThinkPad T440p with a Pinebook Pro at one point. It wasn't even a sidegrade, struggled with video playback, had a very small amount of soldered RAM that made web browsing difficult. I'd love to move away from x86 but maybe it'll be another decade before any of the affordable stuff is worth using. It really is hard to beat a ThinkPad from eBay. Even 4 years old or newer you can get quite performant machines for under $1000. On the less low-end there are the Apple Silicon machines, but Asahi needs a bit more time to bake as well. I'm still hopeful for the future, but will be more cautious in actually embracing it from now on.

pessimizer• 3 months ago

you can get a 10 year old ThinkPad for 10% of the price that will perform roughly as well as this one.

Eventually those Thinkpads will run/wear out. The hardware designs for a [pretty much a Thinkpad] will be a good thing to have then. Let rich nerds looking for bragging rights support development for the future; call them patrons.

Also, they will sell 6 of these, it's not an environmental concern in any way.

spartanatreyu• 3 months ago

If you want this but more powerful then you're probably looking for https://novacustom.com/

It's like framework laptops, but EU based and without the drama of funding a fascist developer.

qiu33442• 3 months ago

One day we will actually run out of "old" ThinkPads. They are already quite pricey in a lot of places in the world - especially the ones with libreboot support.

jabl• 3 months ago

I'm intrigued by this, but waiting for the MNT Reform Next.. https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next

vaylian• 3 months ago

They also have a small-form-factor stationary computer in the pipeline: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt-research/mnt-station

abdullahkhalids• 3 months ago

3x USB Type-A ports 1x USB Type-C for USB-C PD power input and built-in UART-to-USB converters

It doesn't seem either present- or future-secure to have only USB-A ports.

znpy• 3 months ago

I wish there is more information about battery life of that laptop.

djray• 3 months ago

It says "approx. 5 hours" in the "Power & Batteries" section.

ktallett3• 3 months ago

Approx 5 hours depending on processor but people have upgraded theirs to fit a larger battery to get it up to 10 hours.

MarsIronPI• 3 months ago

I like most of what I see in the Next, but can it have a trackball like the original? I'm not a fan of trackpads.

roshin• 3 months ago

the trackball is interesting

Tade0• 3 months ago

It's been a while since I've last seen a laptop powered by 18650s. The thickness seems to be directly the result of using them there.

jstummbillig2• 3 months ago

I wished it was easier to manufacture things. There is a reason that Apple is held in high regard, and looking at this makes abundantly clear, why.

bluGill2• 3 months ago

You can make things at home. However some parts will need $100 worth of your time when you can buy it - at slightly the wrong size - for $0.50. You could make the part for $0.25 instead - but it would cost several years to design the molds.

jstummbillig2• 3 months ago

You can make things at home.

Price aside, most just won't be very nice.

briandear• 3 months ago

Trackball?

F3nd04• 3 months ago

Trackball.

honkcity2• 3 months ago

I use their Pocket reform option pretty regularly, its a gorgeous device. The keyboard is a delight to use and the community is very friendly and helpful. The RK3588 is also plenty fast for the programming I like to get up to -- mostly writing things in Go or Ocaml for myself, but also for larger tasks its worked fine.

It has rough edges but its very usable , especially for somone inclined to hack on their devices. My main trouble being my yearning to use Alpine on it but not quite having the know how personally to get it up and running.

I like it enough though, that I've also got the Next ordered, which I'm very excited for. Being able to upgrade them both more or less ad-infinitum while new boards come out is a big plus too.

dharmatech2• 3 months ago

How was the process of getting used to the ortholinear keyboard?

honkcity2• 3 months ago

It took me much shorter than I expected, maybe a week or two. I'm quite quick on it now.

paroneayea• 3 months ago

Hi! I actually have, and have been using as my main device, an MNT Pocket Reform, and at one point was using an MNT Reform.

MNT's devices are honestly kinda incredible. I can't recommend them for everyone yet, though that will change soon. Both of them are a kind of "laptop of theseus"; you can open and change and repair them, and honestly I have. Both device's guts are dramatically different than where they started, but changes happened piecemeal.

The Pocket Reform is an incredibly cute device. I can't pull it out anywhere without people fawning over it. Not even just hackers! It's an open hardware cyberdeck you can use as your main device. What's not to love?

The MNT Reform Next will be closer to what many people want out of a laptop. It'll still be chonkier than a normal laptop. But again, these things are incredibly upgradeable and hackable.

Now for the caveats: for most people, I would wait until the MNT Quasar module comes out. The reason being is that while the current "best" module, the RK3588, is honestly pretty good with the 32gb version, it lacks one critical thing for most people and one other critical thing for me in particular. The first thing it lacks is support for suspend. Honestly, it does make working with a tiny computer like this a bit less appealing than the Pocket Reform's form factor could be, since what you really want to do is just be putting it to sleep and taking it out everywhere. The other thing is that Blender doesn't really run on the rk3588 either. You can kind of get a patched version working based on Lucie's patches, and I did, but it doesn't support the Eevee renderer, which is a must-have for me personally.

But the MNT Quasar board will be apparently fixing both of those above issues, and yes, at that point this will be a device that I can recommend generally. And I'll also note that I got the very first MNT Reform when it came out, and holy moly the state of the hardware now vs when it originally launched half a decade ago... it's hugely far between, but the amazing thing is that to get it up to the current state, I didn't need to throw things away, I could just open and tinker with things bit by bit.

In many ways, the MNT Pocket Reform reminds me of the book the main character has in the solarpunk book A Psalm for the Wild Built; a computer that is issued to you at the age of 16 and that which you carry with you for life. You can upgrade and repair it easily, but you don't need to throw it away.

So yeah, it's not for everyone. But if the idea of supporting repairable, upgradeable open hardware made by a lovely bunch of queers in Berlin sounds great? That you can hack on, that has a neat little community, that will be a conversation point amongst fellow hackers for its quirkiness? It's appealing to some, but not all.

lelanthran• 3 months ago

Hi! I actually have, and have been using as my main device, an MNT Pocket Reform, and at one point was using an MNT Reform.

I think the question here is "main what" device? Looking at the MNT reform alone:

I can't use it as a dev laptop (tiny screen, orthlinear keyboard)

I can't use it as my main web browser (4GB RAM isn't going to be enough)

So, that leaves it for uses where I need a small computer for doing something quick (emergency ssh for my site, for example).

For the Pocket Reform, there's even fewer use-cases. I'd love a rockchip based laptop that

1. Takes 18650 batteries

2. Has 16GB+ of RAM

3. Has mechanical keys in a regular layout

4. Has at least a 14-inch screen.

The form factor is what decides what the device is good for, and a form factor of a laptop but still being unsuitable for what laptops are used for is a puzzling product decision to me.

I mean, I am looking through this entire post you made. Quite a large post extolling the virtues, and yet I don't see one single point about what you use it for :-/

Look through all the comments - I don't see people explaining what they use it for.

soapdog• 3 months ago

have you checked the MNT Reform Next?

leonleon69• 3 months ago

Curious why they went with the i.MX8M SoC specifically — was it purely about open documentation, or did the memory bandwidth also factor into the decision?

unleaded2• 3 months ago

What's with all these new accounts posting Claude-generated comments?

dv_dt• 3 months ago

For this kind of hobby device, I would love a different kind of approach that is more like an detachable independent tablet panel with a extended docking base both with CPUs - and hack on the smarts to make resources on the docking base seamlessly available between independent/docked states.

Schlagbohrer• 3 months ago

Website appears to be slashdotted

catlikesshrimp2• 3 months ago

I can only get a page sekf signed. And it is still loading through http only. Yhe internet archive, OTOH, was able to access through https

https://web.archive.org/web/20260421151811/https://mnt.stanl...

scottlamb• 3 months ago

I ran across their trackpad [1] last night; it uses the same Azoteq TPS65 module as the keyboard I just bought. Unfortunately the module's discontinued. [2, 3] I guess people have been going through stockpiles of these given that the last manufacturing run was 2 years ago, but I note the MNT Reform Trackpad is listed as out of stock...

I'm wondering what they'll do to replace it. You can still buy the IQS550 chip it's based on and apparently make a very similar PCB. [4] The black frosted glass seems like more of a challenge for most DIY keyboard makers, maybe not for MNT. The replacement project I saw recommended "2mm thick matte acrylic".

[edit: or maybe the TPS65 manufacturing restarted? mouser apparently has it in stock. [5] although that's the A unit without the surface.]

[1] https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform-capacitive-trackp...

[2] https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/azoteq-pty-ltd/TP...

[3] https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus...

[4] https://github.com/geek-rabb1t/GR-Trackpad65

[5] https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Azoteq/TPS65-201A-S?qs=...

jogu7• 3 months ago

The trackpad in the MNT Reform Next is custom based on the Azotech IQS9150 IC from what I’ve seen in their firmware sources.

Not sure if that will be directly compatible with the MNT Reform classic discussed here though.

gjvc• 3 months ago

this idiom should be encouraged:

   echo 0 | sudo tee /sys/class/leds/ath9k-phy0/brightness

rather than the style in the article:

   echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/ath9k-phy0/brightness   # needs root permissions

camel-cdr• 3 months ago

Thanks I've been doing dumb sudo sh -c ... stuff before.

mghackerlady2• 3 months ago

I would love to have one of these with a RISC-V SBC, I know there's a framework board but as good as framework is they're never be able to beat MNT in terms of hackability

jogu7• 3 months ago

They have a CM4 adapter module so maybe you could get a RISC-V module in there some how but I don’t know if anybody has actually done that or if it would be worth it at this point.

ryukafalz2• 3 months ago

Typing this from a Pocket Reform right now. The two non-work devices I use most often are this and the Reform 2, and I've upgraded both to various degrees over time. I plan to swap modules between them at some point soon so I can have the Pocket Reform be the faster of the two.

I should really write up a long-term review of this thing at some point, but overall I love it. It can be a bit rough around the edges at times, but it's also the coziest little machine I've used in a long time. (And seriously, having a mechanical keyboard in this form factor is great.)

I hope to keep using it long into the future, and the fact that it's open hardware (and that the batteries are standard off-the-shelf pouch cells, or 18650s for the full-size Reform) gives me hope that I will be able to.

dharmatech2• 3 months ago

How was the process of getting used to the ortholinear keyboard?

ryukafalz2• 3 months ago

There was a bit of a learning curve, but I was used to split ortholinear keyboards already, so for me it wasn't all that steep. YMMV though, if you don't already have experience with a similar style of keyboard it might take longer.

I think for me it helped that none of the keys are odd shapes and sizes too. The arrow keys for example are the same size as all the others, unlike some (even larger!) laptops.

MisterTea• 3 months ago

I bought a ZSA Moonlander and have a poor on-and-off-again relationship with it. However, the smaller ortho on the MNT Pocket was easier for me to use and I am not a great typist. Unfortunately the small screen of the Pocket at this stage in life is a bit of a strain to use for long periods so I wind up using my surface or X1 carbon when not at my PC.

MetaWhirledPeas• 3 months ago

For me it was a blast. You just gotta embrace it. I can go back to a staggered board, no problem, but I prefer to use a Planck-like 47-key layout. If nothing else it's just more fun. Put a lot of thought into your layout and don't be afraid to scrap it all and start over.

thcipriani• 3 months ago

Did you get it to suspend when you close the lid?

anthonj• 3 months ago

I'm trying to design my own, and this project has been of great inspiration.

But for mine I really would prefer to wait for the RK3668. My past experience with the current soc is that it's a tad too slow for many cases.

fortheswarm• 3 months ago

9Front 03 Certified: https://helpful.cat-v.org/Blog/2022/07/12/0/

ux266478• 3 months ago

I really like almost everything about MNT's products except for the hardware. Not from a performance standpoint, but on a more fundamental level. I'm really not impressed with all the caveats that ARM brings here. I understand the hacker ethos is part of the brand, and that's perfectly fine when it comes to the friction involved in getting a preferred distro (and other software) running. What's less fine are things like the fundamentally broken sleep/wake functionality.

I'd love to drop $1700 on a Pocket Reform, it's far more appealing than a GPD Pocket 4, but what makes it hard to justify is knowing I'm just buying into another system hampered by the critical flaw of being an ARM SoC. Even though they're tantalizing as a super-luxury boutique computer, overbuilt and absolutely lovely, at the end of the day I simply can't overlook the awful ARM experience it brings with it.

BirAdam• 3 months ago

I have wanted an MNT Reform for quite a while. The problem for me has been spending so much money on an RK3588. Feels irresponsible for a machine that would mostly be accessing my Mac Studio as the Reform is so weak. On the other hand, every single design choice hits for me. I may get one at some point, possibly second hand.

selfawaresoup2• 3 months ago

MNT Pocket Reform user here, had mine for about 1.5 years now in pretty much daily use

Mostly I use it at university (studying psychology) for reading and annotating literature, writing papers using LaTeX, statistics in RStudio, and email, or at home whenever I'm not at my desktop PC and need something with a keyboard or otherwise more capable than my phone. Sometimes I'll take it with me on a trip in case I want to do some writing while traveling.

It sure is a conversation starter. I"m certainly "the lady with the cute cyberpunk-ish laptop" at uni now (I have the purple version)

Things I like:

- trackball: I wish more laptops came with that option these days. Love it - keyboard: I use a columnar layout on my desktop as well so the ortholinear one was very welcome and afaik the Pocket Reform is the only laptop available right now with such a layout. - case: it's chunky but very sturdy. I used to run a few MacBooks over the years and I always worried about their super-thin screen assemblies. I never worry about damaging my Pocket Reform when chucking it in a bag. This thing is really sturdy. - community support: whenever I had any issue, people on the user forum were quick to help and usually a solution was found very soon.

Things that could be better:

- battery life: I get about 4h on a full charge, which is fine. And I can easily get to 8h with a small USB-C powerbank. There's a guide on how to replace the battery cells with larger ones for about 8-10h of running time on the user forum but I haven't gotten around to trying that. Sounds promising though. - performance: the RK3588 is fast enough for most everyday tasks but it sure has its limits. I'm not going to edit my 50MP RAW photos on this machine.

Issues experienced:

- Debian unstable: by default the device ships with Debian unstable (sid) which has caused a lot of issues for me early on, just software breaking a lot. However there's a really good community project providing stable (Trixie) images for Reform laptops and since switching to that it's been smooth sailing. - some battery charging inconsistency: might be related to an early revision of the charging board and I'll probably switch it out for a newer one soon.

Who is this device for?

I'd day it's definitely an enthusiast device. If I just needed a laptop, then yes, I could have gotten an old Thinkpad or a Framework or even a Macbook Air for less money as others have commented, but I think open-hardware projects like MNT Reform are important. That's why I joined the early crowdfunding for the Pocket laptop.

I like that I can actually repair this thing when necessary, upgrade components (like I've already did with the RK3588 CPU), that Linux is the "original" OS for this and not an afterthought, that I can talk to the people designing it (I've personally been to their workshop in Berlin) and contribute things myself.

Knowing Linux basics is certainly helpful too. I would not want to throw a Windows/Mac user with no UNIX terminal experience into the deep end, especially not when running Debian unstable.

It's a nerdy and unique machine for people who are fine with some level of tinkering and I really like it. No other laptop feels like this to use and that's hard to express in specs.

mbix77• 3 months ago

You don't have SSL.

kube-system• 3 months ago

Their packets are open source, no DRM.

rbanffy• 3 months ago

The MNT Pocket Reform keycaps are gorgeous. I wonder why they didn't go with these for the bigger model and keyboard.

normie3000• 3 months ago

Are those AA batteries?

gt0• 3 months ago

They're 18650 cells, a bit bigger than AA.

Moosdijk• 3 months ago

This is nice website.

cultofmetatron• 3 months ago

on the same day the new framework pro launches...

fgfarben• 3 months ago

The plan fell off.

aussieguy1234• 3 months ago

It has that trackball. I'm assuming that must need cleaning from time to time, like the old mouse balls?

qiu33442• 3 months ago

Can't wait for the Qualcomm modules ^^

MNT Reform is an open hardware laptop, designed and assembled in Germany

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