Is it a pint?

https://isitapint.com/

by cainxinth • 4 months ago

185 162 4 months ago

isitapint.com

jjgreen• 4 months ago

In Yorkshire a short pint will result in "Could you fit a whiskey in there?", "yes of course", "THEN FILL IT WITH BEER"

calebelac2• 4 months ago

I'm going to start using this approach. Cheers!

iamcalledrob• 4 months ago

"Where's the rest of it?"

bombcar2• 4 months ago

In the EU I noticed lots of glasses had markings on the side - if it was full to the line, it was a pint (or liter or whatever).

McDonalds cups have a line for ice.

RGamma• 4 months ago

Measuring beer is serious business in Germany to the point the EU commission had to comment on a rule change that supposedly forbade the usage of steins for foaming drinks (it didn't, but Germany wanted to be extra strict): https://www.bayern3.de/bier-steinkrug-eu-richtlinie

https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellun...

Symbiote• 4 months ago

At least in the UK it's a legal requirement to use marked glassware when serving beer, cider and wine. (Or to use a marked measuring cylinder and pour that into the drinkware, which is sometimes done for wine.)

It's also the law in at least some EU countries, although I haven't checked beyond Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line

BoxOfRain2• 4 months ago

In true British fashion the requirements for draught beer and cider are in pints, while wine is sold in millilitres.

luplex• 4 months ago

and crucially, foam has to be above the line.

There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not verify that the foam really starts above the line.

As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is visible signage that informs customers about their right to pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the amount. Source (German): https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-...

In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its spiritual successor. German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...

tveita• 4 months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line

Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud report to your local consumer protection agency. A crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.

bombcar2• 4 months ago

The US is a different place; though I will say that in Europe everything seemed to be right on the line, whereas in the US I'd say that most pours were to the very brim (likely giving me more than advertised).

NelsonMinar• 4 months ago

They are serious about this in Germany. At the Christmas markets it's common to get a single Glühwein mug that you keep and have filled with drinks as you visit. Even these little souvenir keepsakes have a fill line marked on them, no doubt policed by some very stern German standards keepers.

jghn• 4 months ago

In the US at least it's pretty common to see bars using cheater pints. They look like 16 oz pint glasses but with a few tricks wind up only holding 14 oz

nathancahill• 4 months ago

Indeed. And coffee bags have gone from 16oz to 12oz to 10oz and I saw my first 8oz bag recently (while keeping the same form factor).

Waterluvian2• 4 months ago

In Canada (and I’m sure elsewhere) there are surprise inspections where government inspectors show up at petrol stations and see if the pump actually gives you what it claims.

I volunteer for the pub equivalent of this.

9rx• 4 months ago

You're in luck. Measurement Canada has the authority to inspect pints. Typically they only act on complaints, though.

https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...

ryandrake• 4 months ago

I have a feeling that if the USA did random, surprise inspections on businesses to make sure what they were selling was actually as-advertised, the whole system would be exposed as fraud within a month.

lucideer5• 4 months ago

I don't know if other companies do this anywhere but if you live in Ireland. Diageo have roles for people to travel around the country doing precisely this.

arkensaw• 4 months ago

ah yes, the guinness vans, I do often see them out and about

bluGill2• 4 months ago

In the US every gas pump I've seen (I have not check the majority of states, but still a good sample) has a sticker on it stating inspections and who runs the state department that inspects them. Usually it is a yearly inspection (at least according to the sticker, maybe they do it more often I don't know)

Gormo• 4 months ago

Not just gas pumps, but any measuring device used to determine the price of a metered product. The scales at the register at supermarkets also have calibration stickers in my state.

bregma2• 4 months ago

I don't want my beer to taste like gasoline though.

Waterluvian2• 4 months ago

Both may contain ethanol.

skeptrune• 4 months ago

Most useful website I've been on in a hot minute

badgersnake3• 4 months ago

We’ve had laws requiring landlords to serve standardised pints the UK since 1698. This is not a new problem.

xnorswap3• 4 months ago

1985 is the current one: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/72/contents

It's why all bars will have a little plaque saying what size their shots are. Almost always 25ml these days, but 35ml was common in many places. You're allowed to serve shots of either size but not in the same pub.

( edit: Better link: https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp... )

maxbaines2• 4 months ago

Great minds...

graemep2• 4 months ago

I did not know about the 35ml is OK too but not both on the same premises rule.

tialaramex• 4 months ago

The way they got to the 25/ 35 split involves even more craziness. In England the law said spirits are always measured in sixths of a gill. This entire unit is obsolete, but 1/6 is a tiny bit less than 25ml. Fine.

However in Scotland two sizes were common, a fifth of a gill (slightly more generous than England) and a "nip" or quarter of a gill (a lot more generous). If you're used to ordering a "nip" of something and now you get a lot less you'd be very angry! So the 35ml option is there for the kind of Scottish or Irish establishment which would have been used to these larger measures rather than either try to keep the gill (which is a stupid unit nobody else needs) or anger drunk people.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Make a sign" difference was to allow licensed premises to gradually shift to the more profitable, smaller, size. Maybe you change the place you own in Glasgow to 25ml first, and if the locals don't kick off you can try Aberdeen next, otherwise try again in a few years.

maxbaines2• 4 months ago

Agree this is a fact - we mark our glasses because of it. https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/pr...

philipwhiuk2• 4 months ago

I like the CAMRA ones which have the pint line below the rim of the glass. Because technically the head doesn't count as part of the pint and there's a lot of back-and-forth about what the legally acceptable amount of head really is (CAMRA say 0%, pub associations serve 5%, pubs themselves serve whatever they think you'll pay for).

alexfoo• 4 months ago

CAMRA say 0%, pub associations serve 5%

That's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.

A real ale that CAMRA would be happy with rarely has any head at all whereas a generic lager may need a patient pour to keep it to just 5% head.

Anyone asking for a Guinness with no head doesn't understand the drink they've ordered.

gib444• 4 months ago

And they say England becoming low-trust is a recent change !

badgersnake3• 4 months ago

Faux-nostalgia ragebait gets clicks.

badgersnake3• 4 months ago

Found the original too:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Will3/11/15/enacted

xnorswap3• 4 months ago

I got poured a pint by a newbie behind the bar at a hotel recently and she looked embarrassed as it was about 40% head, but to her credit she went to fetch the shift supervisor before I said anything.

He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be charging them for just for the half" etc.

There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you short a pint too much.

post-it• 4 months ago

I'm not sure I understand, why didn't she just top it up?

dismalaf3• 4 months ago

Right? Just top it up, let some of the foam cascade over the side... Foam always forms in the keg if it sits for too long so you need to let some of it out anyway.

xnorswap3• 4 months ago

Who knows, she obviously lacked experience, I guess she just panicked or worried it might be an issue with the barrel rather than her pour?

vojtapol• 4 months ago

Yes. Americans/Canadians famously can't pour beer properly. If you are pouring a pilsner or really any lager, a head of at least 2 inches is actually correct and absolutely desirable. The way it's poured in Canada (no head) is borderline undrinkable to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dggKezrSQxI

masfuerte• 4 months ago

If an establishment wants to serve drinks with a head they should use glasses with a mark on the side indicating the measure, rather than glasses which need to be brim full. Using the latter style of glass and including a head is just ripping off the customer.

consp2• 4 months ago

We call that kind of beer without any head "dead". Measurement here is about two fingers width, and if you do it the first time and screw up it is two fingers in length (second part is of course tounge-in-cheek).

skipants• 4 months ago

As a Canadian: hard agree. Beer without head is gross.

mb7733• 4 months ago

Preferences vary on both sides of the Atlantic. Another comment on this post complains that Americans pour beer wrong because they _do_ pour with a head.

Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington

secondcoming• 4 months ago

If I get a beer with no head I'm assuming the glass was dirty

bregma2• 4 months ago

How do you measure the head through the red solo bubba cup?

Really, no self-respecting Canadian would drink beer out of anything except directly out of the bottle, can, or keg.

mattmanser• 4 months ago

You should try the Dutch!

They think a big head means a good lager and every pint you get is 80% head.

anfractuosity• 4 months ago

Maybe it was a Czech Mlíko pour ;) The faucets they use are pretty cool (https://www.lukrfaucets.com/en/)

wodenokoto• 4 months ago

79.3% of pours were short (under 100% of claimed volume)

That is quite surprising. What breweries used to do when I worked in cafes and bars was to paint a mark on the glass and under it write "0.5" (in market that sells in liters and not in pints) and this mark is above[1] the half liter mark. Note that it is without units.

Pubs and bars get glasses for cheap or free and the brewery/distributor tries to trick the bar into selling more beer than they expect.

[1] We checked using measure cups from the kitchen. Maybe there is a conspiracy to have kitchens use too little ingredients.

ch_1232• 4 months ago

In the UK and Ireland, a pint is 20 oz. (equivalent to just over 19 US ounces), so I always feel cheated by 16 oz. "pint" glasses in the US.

dghf4• 4 months ago

This is why I get agitated when Americans claim to use imperial units. If they did, their pints would be the correct size.

cjs_ac2• 4 months ago

Americans don't claim to use imperial weights and measures; they use customary weights and measures, which were also used in the UK prior to the creation of imperial units with the Weights and Measures Act 1824.

bryanrasmussen• 4 months ago

surely if that was the claim George Washington would never have had his dream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk

loeg• 4 months ago

It's not completely uncommon to be offered 16 oz or 20 oz as options in the US. But I see it more at "fast casual" restaurants than bars or more upscale restaurants.

cbm-vic-20• 4 months ago

And of course, what an "ounce" means may vary. According to Wikipedia "An imperial fluid ounce is defined in British law as exactly 28.4130625 millilitres, while a US customary fluid ounce is exactly 29.5735295625 mL, and a US food labelling fluid ounce is 30 mL."

vlod• 4 months ago

Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington.

mcjiggerlog• 4 months ago

Well, depending on the type of beer, that's intentional. It's not always the faux-pas that it would be to do this when serving cask ale in the UK.

consp2• 4 months ago

A pint in the Netherlands usually is 500ml. In very rare cases, but only in real pubs (not mass market "Irish" pubs) you get an actual pint. So you are cheated out of about ~68ml in that case. Vs the US you get a few ml more.

ch_1232• 4 months ago

A standard US pint is about 473ml so a US pint is ~95ml less than an imperial pint.

thrance• 4 months ago

Same thing here in France. Except I've never seen any "real" pints here, it's always 50cl.

amiga386• 4 months ago

As far as I knew, Netherlands pubs typically sold:

- 200ml "fluitje" (little flute)

- 250ml "pintje" (little pint), often sold in a "vaasje" (vase, a tapered beer glass). This is the typical beer measure: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintje "Het bestelde glas pils heeft doorgaans een inhoud van 25 cl"

They also sell standard bottled beer in 300ml and standard cans in 330ml: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standaardglas

I was not aware that 500ml was usual for the Netherlands. It is usual in, say, Germany, where they also sell the 1 litre Maß

jcul• 4 months ago

Do they actually call it a pint or just a half litre / large beer?

That's seems to be the norm in a lot of mainland Europe.

eduction• 4 months ago

Your pubs kindly return the favor when we order whiskey. As Hunter S Thompson is reported to have quipped in a bar your side of the Atlantic: "What is this, a sample?"

BoxOfRain2• 4 months ago

That's fair, can't argue with that one.

Personally I'd have us use what the Royal Navy used to serve its rum ration in, the half-gill. This is 1/8 of a British pint or 71 millilitres, and the rum would have been a minimum of 54%!

Fractional gills were the pre-metric shot measure in the UK, but they were still pretty stingy. 1/6 gill in England, 1/5 or 1/4 gill in Scotland, and 1/4 gill in Northern Ireland.

dfawcus• 4 months ago

The volume of UK and US fluid ounces being different also doesn't help.

The UK pint is 568ml, apparently a US pint is 473 ml.

lbourdages• 4 months ago

It is the same in Canada [1] yet I frequently see beer sold in "US pints" over here. I assume they do it so they can advertise cheaper prices (the amount being smaller). Some places will write the glass size in ounces, but some won't.

It is one of my pet peeves for sure.

[1] https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...

neuronflux• 4 months ago

Also Canadian. I don't often see "pint" on the menu, usually something like "16oz." Evidently restaurateurs and bar owners are wise to the law. Though I am pleased when I see "20oz" on the menu!

I kind of understand the logic by not serving 20oz and saying "pint". Customers might avoid a place because their "pints are more expensive", when in reality that place is also serving them 4oz of extra beer. A bit like the classic 1/3 lb cheeseburger being "smaller"[1].

Annoyingly, I do find that servers will often refer to their larger size beer as "pint" regardless of whatever the menu says.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-pound_burger#Marketing_f...

michael1999• 4 months ago

I have a buddy who used to call Weights and Measures on bars that passed off US customary pints as "pints". It is illegal, but enforced largely by complaint.

lucideer5• 4 months ago

I'm from Ireland, where filling beers precisely up to the brim is practically a religion, & many barmen will even take the glass back & top it up if they see the head diminishing too quickly in the space of time it takes you to pick the freshly poured pint up.

One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.

petesergeant• 4 months ago

The only sensible approach here is pint-to-line glasses. I don't want my glass filled to the very top where I'll spill it, I want it filled to the pint line. Sadly in the UK up to 5% of the pint is allowed to be foam, but I'd expect any sensible barman in the UK to top me up to the pint line if I asked, and be apologetic about it.

philipwhiuk2• 4 months ago

Kind of.

Guinness glasses are exactly a pint, so the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer.

This is tolerated/expected and so de facto correct but de jure perhaps not.

lucideer5• 4 months ago

the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer

I hate to be pedantic but pint being volumetric, you're still getting a pint, independent of density. Also - a nitrogen head doesn't dissipate, so you never get a gap.

I'm now curious though whether a nitrogen head is less dense than a CO2 head...

dismalaf3• 4 months ago

In Czech Republic they usually pour 3 fingers of head. But the measure line is also part way down the glass, the foam all above the line...

ahartmetz3• 4 months ago

Same in Germany. In Belgium, the glasses don't have a line and they don't fill them to the brim neither! The only thing that prevents pubs from cheating you out of some of your beer is their reputation. And to be honest, I sometimes had doubts about getting all that I paid for.

ljm• 4 months ago

You could get a pint of nothing but head as well, if you wanted.

In Spain they try to create the head by dumping the beer in the glass, Guinness style, and letting it excessively foam up. So it's half flat and half full.

ahofmann• 4 months ago

I remember watching the cornetto trilogy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Flavours_Cornetto ) and always wondering why on earth they fill up the glasses up to the brim. It is uncomfortable to transport this way and not spill beer.

OJFord4• 4 months ago

First sip's at the bar; then you can

fanf2• 4 months ago

When CAMRA was new in the early 1970s, they started a campaign for oversize glasses holding a pint to the line instead of a pint to the rim, so that there would be space for a pint of liquid and a head in the glass. The big breweries hated this idea and mounted a reactionary campaign arguing things like it would be too expensive to replace all the glasses, or serve customers the full measure they had paid for. (My father was a new recruit at Guinness and sadly one of his early tasks was the pint-to-brim campaign.)

pmh• 4 months ago

not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top

I'm wondering if this is due to the prevalence of cask ales vs bottle/keg conditioning. The former is relatively uncommon in Belgium and you want the head from the latter.

That said, oversized glassware (e.g. Duvel's tulip for aromatics) and/or fill lines are also used to accommodate the head while still not cheating the customer out of volume.

lucideer5• 4 months ago

It could well have emerged as a cultural norm from the prevalence of heads, but I've seen it often for very moderate heads, with a gap left above the foam.

not cheating the customer out of volume

I don't think it's cheating if its the norm. One would expect prices to be set appropriately for the average volume served (i.e. a full glass would be a bonus rather than the gap being a loss).

I do just find it odd, coming myself from the opposite culturally.

amonon4• 4 months ago

My understanding is Belgian beer culture considers the aroma to be an important part of the experience. But I’ve never been, that’s all through osmosis.

dkarl• 4 months ago

This is exactly it. That's why the glasses have the same basic form (stem, bowl, and tapered rim) as wine glasses and snifters. The liquid sits in the bowl, and the aroma is captured in the empty space between the liquid and the rim.

jccooper• 4 months ago

Belgian glasses, like wine glasses, leave room for head and aromatics.

Belgium is also fanatical about matching the glass with the beer, and Europe has the very sensible pour line on glasses, so it is designed for a certain fill and filled to the design.

It's designed for experience, not volume.

port11• 4 months ago

My experience in Belgium is that people also have very different expectations for foam and aroma. Also: our beers are quite strong and often double or triple fermented (or more), so there’s plenty of space in a glass to account for foam. Just a few guesses.

calebelac2• 4 months ago

Thanks for sharing! Glad to see there's some momentum behind this libatious tragedy

TheGRS• 4 months ago

I'll happily volunteer for this. I may have found my new purpose in life!

BashiBazouk2• 4 months ago

Reminds me of backpacking up and down the east coast of Australia. I learned that Fosters is only northern New South Wales for beer. Every place had their own preferred beer, but maddeningly they all had their own glass. A tenner, a schooner. Each a slightly different size. I made friends with a guy in Hobart that was staying in the hostel as he was doing research there, I think he was a biologist. He took me to his favorite pub as they served imperial pints. I think who ever is behind this site needs to do some serious research in Australia as they could, at least, double the "know your glass" section...

mcbain• 4 months ago

You might enjoy the matrix of regional sizes and names on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Australia#Beer_glasses

No, us locals don't know them all either!

hug3• 4 months ago

As someone heavily involved in the hospitality (read: beer) area, this doesn't really line up with reality in Australia: there's only one state (South Australia) that doesn't agree on the major standard sizes: Pints are 470ml, schooners are 425ml, a half pint is 285ml, and a pony is 140ml.

There's colloquialisms for a half: pot, or middy, mostly. Hobart will call a half pint a ten, because it's 10oz, but they also know what you're talking about when you ask for a pot or a half pint.

Then there's South Australia, which will serve you a pint at 425ml, a schooner at 285ml, no one there outside of specialty craft beer bars have any idea what a half pint is, and if you want a proper pint you need to ask for an imperial pint. I have never seen an 'imperial pint' advertised in Hobart - it's just called a pint there.

Source: I have pretty extensive drinking experience in pretty much all of the Australian capital cities, except Perth.

BashiBazouk2• 4 months ago

Maybe not today, but in the summer of 1990 every pub I went to seemed to have a different glass and I was somehow expected to know what they were called...

November_Echo• 4 months ago

there's only one state (South Australia) that doesn't agree on the major standard sizes: Pints are 470ml, schooners are 425ml, a half pint is 285ml, and a pony is 140ml.
Source: I have pretty extensive drinking experience in pretty much all of the Australian capital cities, except Perth.

I don't drink as much as I used to so this might be a little outdated, but in Perth "Pints" are 570ml. It was rare, but becoming less so, for some places to serve you a 470ml schooner when you ordered a pint. We avoided those places.

amonon4• 4 months ago

Look, I get it. Beer is expensive, these days. Always has been. But I feel like these movements miss the forest for trees.

If we mandate beer volume then places that are “shorting” you will just raise the prices. Not to mention the tax on beer that would be required to pay for the inspection service. No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere.

Also, you know what really annoys me? When a bartender pulls a pint for me, and it’s up to the brim with no foam. Foam is part of the joy of a crisp beer. It adds aroma and anticipation. If I wanted to drink something with no foam I’d drink a soda. And in my heart of hearts (or stomach if stomachs?) I fear that’s where these arguments lead.

roxolotl• 4 months ago

The solution is in other comments. In the EU glasses are etched with a fill line. Not filled to the mark? You complain.

amonon4• 4 months ago

That seems very reasonable to me.

graemep2• 4 months ago

No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere.

People need to know how much they got. it can be hard to judge, especially as you will be comparing across visits to different places on different days, and different styles of glass, etc.

Johnny5552• 4 months ago

No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but without regulation, how do you know that you got less than you paid for unless you're going to carry around a measuring glass yourself?

If the places that were shorting you have to raise prices when they have to give you what you paid for, that's false economy -- you're not saving money, if you want to drink less beer to save money, ask for a smaller glass.

amonon4• 4 months ago

I guess I feel the same way about that as I do about a steak. How do I know that the steak is the 16oz I ordered? Ultimately the most important part is if I found the experience satisfying enough to return, not whether the steak was within .5oz of its stated measurement.

goosejuice4• 4 months ago

There's a distinct difference between food retail and food service. This kind of regulation will harm the later, it does not belong. Are we going to weigh every pizza, every omelette, every side of fries too? We don't need to sterilize every single part of our food culture.

Anyone who has spent even a short amount of time in the food service business will be familiar with shrink. The average bar is probably seeing more than 15% shrinkage. The short pours are probably not offsetting that loss. Margins are thin.

Solutions for the neurotic drinker this website appeals to: - order a can or bottle - buy retail and stay home - go to a self pour joint and pay by volume. Bonus: you don't have to talk to anyone.

Otherwise put away the scale and talk to the bartender. Chances are you come away with plenty of free beer. Most small taprooms will help you find a beer you like by giving you free beer. If you're obsessing over getting what you paid for in food service, you're missing out on the true value of that industry.

Let's not harass our bartenders, a hell of a tough job, with scales. I spent years behind the case of a cut to order cheese shop. There's a time and place for scales. This is not it.

Spivak• 4 months ago

I think your expected outcome is actually the desired one, to kill shrinkflation in favor of actual price increases. When the measures are all the same you can compare apples to apples across different businesses.

ljsprague2• 4 months ago

Indeed, regular drinkers know what to expect as far as pour and price from any given bar. If I drop into a new bar and I feel ripped off then I don't go back. I do the same with burritos.

d--b• 4 months ago

As infuriating as it may be, it's a good occasion to learn to let go.

Rationally, you're paying way more than the liquid in the glass, so just mentally tell yourself that the haircut is included in the price, and that's fine. If you can't stand the price anyway, change bar.

You're there to chill. Just chill.

goosejuice4• 4 months ago

I'm sure the same individuals will calculate tip to the cent as well.

As someone who worked in specialty foods for years, you get what you get. Flaws and all. That's part of the charm of this industry. This is especially true for small craft breweries. If you insist on accuracy then ask for a can/bottle list. If you insist on consistency then buy macro.

twodave• 4 months ago

Now this is what the Internet is really supposed to be about.

oldandboring2• 4 months ago

I enjoyed reading this site and appreciate the passion and the effort.

The "loss of the pint" is basically shrink-flation. When a bar's costs and/or overhead goes up, they must do some combination of cutting expenses and raising prices. Raising prices means either selling the same stuff in the same quantity for more, or selling cheaper stuff OR less of the same stuff at the same price. Most bars will opt for the latter options to avoid raising prices, because raising prices is more likely to create complaints. All caveats apply, of course -- drop portions or quality too much or too often and you'll get complaints for sure, but "within reason" it's the lesser of two evils.

This is why I personally don't feel like I'm being cheated out of 2oz when I buy a $8 14oz shaker pint of IPA. Clearly, the cost per oz at this bar is $0.57. A 16oz glass would cost $9.14. They don't owe me the 2oz for free just because they used the word "pint". If the state government started enforcing pint measures again, bars would just drop the word "pint" from their signs and menus.

bee_rider2• 4 months ago

Is it called a shaker pint for association with the famously restrained Shakers?

oldandboring2• 4 months ago

According to my half-assed internet research, it's because it was designed to be used when shaking cocktails.

Forgeties79• 4 months ago

It’s such a small thing but when a brewery or restaurant featuring beers writes “pint” as an option and gives me a typical US beer glass (shaker I believe) it annoys the hell out of me. Don’t explicitly write “pint” if it isn’t at least north of 15oz. Definitely don’t if the glass literally can’t hold a pint.

goosejuice4• 4 months ago

Wait until they discover cocktails.

Bickering over a few dollars when you're paying a premium price for the experience of going out is rather silly. There's better uses of your time, like enjoying yourself.

If you're not familiar with the mess that was nips: https://carolinas.eater.com/2015/10/16/9553903/mini-bottles-...

chaboud• 4 months ago

I've joked that the 16oz US pint was a long-play metric-system scheme to drive adoption of 500ml (~16.9oz) as a measure, a Pavlovian mechanic to trick beer-drinking Americans that the metric system is actually better because it results in more beer. The joke's on them. We're all about 12oz cans! 33cl? pfft...

Germans have it nailed down with the Kölsch Stange, a 200ml glass that so readily disappears that it stays cold and you just get another from the Kranz.

wolfi1• 4 months ago

no one drinks it that way, except for those who drive. and believe me, for half a litre in half an hour one yields an acceptable beer temperature

zabzonk3• 4 months ago

I used to work in the Netherlands (i'm from the UK) and I could never understand how the Dutch put up with so much froth on their beer, even really enjoying being ripped off by it.

froh• 4 months ago

there is a calibration marker on the glass and the liquid has to be filled up to that line, the froth on top is extra. so on the continent we get more, not less. so from where we stand it looks rather like the islanders are ripped off ;-)

cheers

zabzonk3• 4 months ago

I'm not denying this, but I do remember a jug of beer being ordered and me being asked to pour it into several glasses without noticeable markings, and me trying to end up with about a 1/4 inch of head as I would in the UK and my Dutch friends yelling "more head" or something even less than polite.

Mostly in the NL I drink bottled beer. And I'm a Yorkshire man, at least by birth.

eternauta3k• 4 months ago

One thought I keep coming back to is the immense consequences of how our units of length, weight and volume were defined. Products are often sold with round numbers (1 liter, 0.5 liter, 1 kg, etc). If you could go back in time and fiddle with e.g. the definition of a pint, you'd see that reducing its volume would lead to people drinking less, until it's so small that people just order two pints.

stuartaxelowen• 4 months ago

In Taiwan the standard way to drink beer is to get it in large bottles, but shared with a small glass per person. Easy to not drink much that way, and promotes the social “let me fill your glass” behavior. (making it harder to not drink much)

metalman• 4 months ago

I had a mk1 diesel rabbit, which when asked about the mileage, I would reply that is got 15 miles to the pint, though further into my youth people still refered to a "point of rum", as a measure distinct from all others, but of course bieng Canadian, beer comes in quarts.

cesaref• 4 months ago

On the subject of the weights and measures to check that a pint is a pint, I remember the father of a friend of mine at university who was responsible for the weights and measures for Staffordshire. I think he was the undersheriff or something like that, and that the official pint was part of the collection.

This would have been in the late 80s - i've no idea if it was still in use, but i've a feeling that the law hadn't necessarily moved on, so I guess the official measure could have been required if challenged in court.

stego-tech• 4 months ago

This is the sort of goodness the internet was made for. I'm no beer drinker myself, but I'm already sharing it with those in my circles who do.

Also a great way to teach folks on how to hold others honest and accountable, a skill sorely underdeveloped at present. Start with the pours, and push upward from there.

scoofy• 4 months ago

I discovered long ago that you might as well order a can in the states because you'll pay less and get effectively the same amount of beer.

tristor• 4 months ago

Glad to see I'm not the only person that this bothers. I've been to more than 75 countries, to 43 US states, more than 2500 breweries, and I have drank more than 10k unique beers. Many beers styles should be correctly served in different glass shapes than a standard pint glass, but short pours are endemic, especially in the United States and in Canada. I always appreciate when I get a pint at a bar and see that they're using actual imperial nonic glasses with a pour line at 16oz/568ml.

joombaga• 4 months ago

I'm having trouble understanding these 2 claims from the summary:

1 in 2 pints delivered less than 14.4 oz (below 90%)
37.9% were significantly short (under 90% of claimed volume)

Aren't those the same claim with different percentages? 1 in 2 is 50%, and 50% is less than 37.9%

justonceokay• 4 months ago

Sounds like a typo you are overanalyzing. I bet the second number was supposed to be 80%.

ljsprague2• 4 months ago

I don't think it's overanalyzing to point out a typo.

credit_guy• 4 months ago

If you compare the US and the UK regarding the alcoholic beverage servings, then you can reach two conclusions, depending whether you think drinking alcohol is good or bad. If you think it's bad, then the US is better, because the restaurants in the US tend to serve smaller sizes. I am in this camp. In the UK, by comparison, the restaurants are much more generous; wine glasses seem gargantuan compared to wine glasses in the US. I suppose some people like that, but I am not sure that's really something to admire.

RyanOD• 4 months ago

Coffee pours are similarly sketchy.

pintpatrol2• 4 months ago

I think you'll all love this. I just made a study of this in the US, which you can read at isitapint.com This is very new and I'm between jobs having some fun.

I also made a free app that maps measurements of pints (or any pour) that users make, meaning you can share where short pints are poured and more importantly where honest pints are being poured. It should work in the UK, but I set this up in the US. I intend for it to work internationally. Eventually the app will have a large enough database of poured pints that have been measured by scale that a simple photo will give a very accurate measurement if the glass is recognized.

I hope it helps humanity.

pintpatrol2• 4 months ago

Oh yeah, and Reddit banned me for bringing it up there. So, that's cool. And BeerAdvocate took down my post about it too... so I'm reaching out to bloggers and podcasters now for interviews. I have no idea how I'm going to publicize this except maybe by gorilla tactics.

Is it a pint?

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