Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

by tietjens • 6 months ago

636 308 6 months ago

chpatrick2• 6 months ago

I know about this issue so it's great that something is being done about it, but the page really needs a text explainer instead of the just a video.

dewey2• 6 months ago

Isn't that exactly what is below the video in the "What is this about?" section?

chpatrick2• 6 months ago

That's only a very vague description.

usr11062• 6 months ago

Reading a couple of pages of the full complaint, starting from page 15 is surprisingly accessible (assuming German is accessible at all to the reader).

They claim Telekom keeps their transit access points intentionally underdimensioned. In order to be reachable at decent speed by Telekom customers, internet services need a direct, paid contract with Telekom.

Edit: The section numbering is weird. Why does 2.2.0 come after 2.3? On my phone, don't have a good overview.

Dilettante_• 6 months ago

Why does 2.2.0 come after 2.3?

Ask the paper how many 'r's in strawberry

tietjens• 6 months ago

This is the best text explainer I have found: https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2025/05/no-two-tier-inter...

sighansen• 6 months ago

The only ISP I have access to is Deutsche Telekom and I often have problems with websites loading slowly. A few more years before other ISPs can provide internet in my new development area. I can't understand, why they are allowed to have a monopoly in some areas.

zhouzhao9• 6 months ago

why they are allowed to have a monopoly in some areas

because no other ISP can enter for a reasonable price. Germany should have made the infrastructure open-access for all providers, just like they did in Switzerland.

anthonj2• 6 months ago

Germany always surprise me with continuous contradiction in their society.

Largest economy in eu but very unstable and riddled with wierd burocracy.

Strongest worker protection, but very large amount of lobbysm.

Most advanced railway system in eu, transformed into a joke by interdiction from said lobbies.

You have to pay a "radio tax" to help funding press and keep it independent, but then fuck net neutrality.

And I could continue with more point, but I don't want to get too political.

borlox• 6 months ago

Do you know similarly large, democratic societies without contradictions?

anthonj2• 6 months ago

my impression is that other countries like Italy or France are much more consistent in what they are bad or good at.

But it's possible it's just my personal bias.

dgxyz2• 6 months ago

The one that always gets me is security and privacy paranoid and lecture me on the Stasi and using Apple phones and how they aren't repairable but then goes and uses unpatched rotten old Android they can't fix anyway and sticks fingers in ears. Nearly every German I know does this and I know a lot of Germans as half my family is German and my ex-partner is German.

integralid• 6 months ago

I'll bite (I'm not German but I'm close culturally):

* Old Androids are not repairable because they're shit, not because a megacorp works hard to make repair impossible

* Old Androids may be hacked by a pegasus-like software (just like most new smartphones anyway), but at least the operating system does not lock you into its own closed ecosystem.

You may disagree, and correctly, because it's in part irrational, but many Europeans just dislike Apple and consider Android a more open/free ecosystem.

heraldgeezer4• 6 months ago

unpatched rotten old Android

Based.

Fsk Apple. Soy aah

ekianjo• 6 months ago

Most advanced railway system in eu

France is certainly better

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

I believe Germany's is much more interconnected while France's mostly goes from Paris to other places. Mesh versus star topology.

SvenL• 6 months ago

Yes, as a German I can agree.

However, I remember the anecdote of how France has two different companies for the trains and trainstations. The first ordered trains which were a little bit to wide for the trainstations, due to a miss communication.

When I read about this, I thought „this could have been Germany too.“

f1shy2• 6 months ago

In fact German ICEs are limited in speed in Germany because of the rails, when they cross to France go faster.

hermanzegerman4• 6 months ago

Certainly not. Nobody wants to book his train 2 weeks in advance to reserve a seat, because otherwise it's "sold out". Also Commuter Rail (TER) is a total Joke outside of Ile-de-France. Sometimes also even with mandatory reservation. I think SNCF confuses itself with an Airline

blkhawk• 6 months ago

Some of these contradictions are fractal - i.e. contradictions all the way down :) For example the independent Radio and TV isn't that independent actually but in practice is. Partially this is because of the insecurities of the times these institutions were setup in making people in power unsure about true independence - so they wanted a control mechanism. The end result is an institution that is deeply coupled into the government but that has at the same time to pretend to be independent to such a degree most people inside it just act that way and its output is sorta neutral except in very slight tonal shift ways and in some individual cases. instances that are very German-culturally local? This is very hard to explain correctly but easy to just explain it wrongly - Let me do that now and translate it to American.

Imagine an institution being dependent and biased in exactly the opposite way that fox news is independent and balanced. Imagine a government-independent institution where you join a controlling organ and after sworn in you are invited to 2 after-meetings at the same time. One invitation comes in a red letter the other in a blue letter. Yet everybody has to be independent because that is what it is supposed to be. Germans can be very very stubborn about that.

this is sorta incomplete and wrong but I think gets you the taste for the setup? If not complain in the replies :)

cardanome• 6 months ago

It is independent in the sense of not being partial to any specific political party. Still the media is very biased towards the status quo and the state. For example you will not find any serious criticism of Israel in any public or private mainstream media in Germany.

u8080• 6 months ago

You have to pay a "radio tax" to help funding press

I mean, same as in most countries taxpayers effectively sponsor government propaganda.

tannhaeuser2• 6 months ago

Complaining about net neutrality in 2026 with yt videos. What a joke by pseudo-"hackers."

dewey2• 6 months ago

It's called being pragmatic, are you going to sponsor the bandwidth needed so it can be hosted on a sustainable indie server?

6r17• 6 months ago

please. I don't understand how the fuck we still don't have p2p social networks and private sharing groups. The amount of possibilities to f* up any kind of control are massive - it's just that we end up writing some convoluted distributed mainframe when all people need is p2prss.

egeozcan2• 6 months ago

In life, you have to pick your battles.

ccozan7• 6 months ago

Telekom is well known for the crappy service - but they have a de facto monopoly. For example, when it rains, the line goes down where I live.

Solution: I got my Starlink. 3x speed. No crappy service. Weather independent. And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .

[ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]

heraldgeezer4• 6 months ago

For example, when it rains, the line goes down where I live.

Sounds like an access line issue with DSL (lol)

DSL is so old you can't even order it in Sweden anymore.

Also, the post above would be a core issue not access.

blauditore2• 6 months ago

Excuse me, I remember when DSL was the latest and greatest, it can't possibly be this old. :')

kybernetyk3• 6 months ago

I'm glad Vodafone is available where I live. They're not better but at least they're an alternative. Also Telekom manages only to deliver 250mbit/s while Vodafone gets 1gbit/s.

Last apartment I rented Telekom was the only option and that was one of the reasons why I decided to move.

Starlink I would love to try but as there's building and trees blocking the horizon it's not an option here sadly.

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

Vodafone seems also terrible, but maybe better than DT?

preya2k• 6 months ago

Not an alternative anymore. Vodafone started doing the same shit with their peering at the end of last year.

ThatMedicIsASpy3• 6 months ago

Both throttle in my area unless we vpn so I just share a vpn with a friend to fix it.

trinix9124• 6 months ago

Except that with Telekom they answer to the German courts which might eventually force them to stop doing this but with Starlink you're at the mercy of some dudes halfway across the globe. If/when Starlink reaches the enshittification phase, there will be very little in the way.

blauditore2• 6 months ago

The bright side of this is that there is at least some sort of competition, since they operate on very different infrastucture. This is the free market premise on how quality and price should improve. Reality is often different though, because most customers are not really comparing and/or voting with their feet.

kybernetyk3• 6 months ago

Meh, the threat vector to me as a resident of Germany is the German government - not some dude at the other end of the world. What is Musk going to do? Ban me from Twitter? Not sell me a Tesla?

That's nothing compared to what German authorities can do to me. Germany is a country where you get police searching your home for torrenting movies or making stupid jokes on Facebook. So yeah.

Also about enshittification - one could argue that our local ISPs never left that phase to begin with.

carlosjobim• 6 months ago

German courts are expected to be much more hostile towards German citizens than any foreign powers or individuals.

shevy-java2• 6 months ago

And surprinsingly cheaper ( 40 euros vs 45 ) .
[ as much as I do not like Musk & co, this is a real useful thing he build for the mankind - internet everywere from sattelite ]

Right - but then you also depend on an US service here. And the USA changed policy where Europeans became enemies ("we won't give you arms to defend against Russian invaders! Greenland will be occupied by our military soon!").

It's a bad situation, lose-lose here. I don't think the price difference is the primary problem though; the behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.

em-bee2• 6 months ago

are all starlink connections routed through the US?

don't they do local downlinks? at least for countries they have an agreement with or where the infrastructure is available?

fc417fc8026• 6 months ago

The best solution here would probably be the EU launching its own internet constellation. China and the US both have them. How is this any different than the issues surrounding GPS?

throwaway140126• 6 months ago

Well, you have a point but on the other side since about 20 years the Telekom does not even think about improving the internet connection in the place I live. At some point you're just fed up. To me it seems like they just do not care about providing a good service and even if they would now provide a good service I would be more willing to give my money someone else.

holowoodman4• 6 months ago

he behaviour of Telekom is the problem. That must change. The state has to ensure fairness rather than allow monopolies to milk The People.

The state is the monopoly here.

Telekom is still partially state-owned (~27%), since they were, back in the 90s, privatized from the former total monopoly "Deutsche Bundespost" and the related ministry "Bundespostministerium". Nowadays, the parts of the ministry that were back then regulating EM spectrum, allowable phones (basically phone police, you had to rent from Bundespost or go to jail) and generally being corrupt (relations of the former ministry to copper manufacturers is why they botched the first fibre rollouts in '95 and then ignored the topic for 20 years). Nowadays, the "Regulierungsbehoerde", staffed with the same people, is supposed to regulate their former colleagues at Telekom. Telekom got all the networks and was never split up, so it still has a (~85%?) monopoly on everything copper basically, as well as on customers, using this monopoly to bully other ISPs as well as it's own customers and extending this monopoly into future tech. And the state has a financial interest in this regulation being as lax as possible. So you can imagine how this goes...

avra• 6 months ago

How can a satellite connection be more weather independent than a landline? Not questioning your statement. Just wondering what could be the reason. A segment with a long distance directional antenna?

Doohickey-d• 6 months ago

With ADSL: broken waterproofing somewhere along the line, water gets into the cables or connections == broken while it's raining.

Then you call their customer support, tech comes out, it's not raining anymore and everything works, and the problem doesn't get fixed.

attendant34462• 6 months ago

My experience was slightly different. I mean, yes, there pretty much no 'non crappy' German internet providers, but nothing was as bad as Vodafone.

cyberpunk• 6 months ago

Telefonica enters the chat.w

ThatMedicIsASpy3• 6 months ago

Not true.

https://www.lwlhome.de/

ThatMedicIsASpy3• 6 months ago

Depending on the age of Starlink you could add 10-30 to the bill for its power consumption.

pona-a• 6 months ago

I don't have think this is sustainable. There can physically be only so many satellites before we reach Kessler syndrome. The costs will rise as the quality of service falls, and there market for alternative land-based ISPs will not have developed.

Fnoord5• 6 months ago

Telekom is well known for the crappy service - but they have a de facto monopoly. For example, when it rains, the line goes down where I live.

Haha, I used to have that as well when tech swapped from ADSL2 to VDSL2 (IIRC skipped out on VDSL1), except then the line wasn't down, I'd have severe packet loss (which resulted in lag in gaming, and disconnects). So they blamed our inner house's phone lines. Then some dude came, checked everything in the house, and couldn't find the issue. I said of course not, it isn't raining.

After it got escalated further it turned out it was rotten equipment at the DSLAM. They replaced it and boom, problem was gone.

No hair on my head (and I ain't bald knock on wood) wants to have all my internet traffic first routed through an American neonazi, but if the choice is nothing (or something severely broken) or that, I can see where you are coming from. Whereas I can pick between FttH (XGS-PON), DSL (VDSL2), or cable. With the latter two being fiber up till a few hunderd meters to my house (I know where both PoPs physically are in the neighborhood, as I have seen technicians on both places). The fiber one is further away, and larger (for more households), but that is OK. It can handle that much distance. Technician showed me a photo from his smartphone when my fiber got down due to specifically my fiber connectivity destroyed at the PoP. That was a lot of fiber I saw. Good cable management though.

ccozan7• 6 months ago

It was a busines decision for me: being in customer meetings and suddenly dropping out was unacceptable. Or not being able to access critical data. Vodafone LTA coverage is average at best and data is severily limited ( 15 GBs ). Really out of options here!!

While I chuckled at "American neonazi", the company SpaceX is doing great things.

haunter• 6 months ago

Not sure it’s the same issue but in Hungary they (DT) refuse to use/pay Cloudflare so in peak hours every single site outside the country loads incredibly slow because of the constant re-routing. Everything has to go through Frankfurt even though CF would have alternate direct routes

https://kozosseg.telekom.hu/topic/40322-cloudflare-magyar-te...

https://old.reddit.com/r/programmingHungary/comments/1ngv2pt...

https://telex.hu/techtud/2024/06/21/deutsche-telekom-cloudfl...

At least they are cheap. 25€ a month for 2gbps/1gbps so I can’t complain about that

They also offer 4gbps/2gbps for 40€ but at this point I’m not even sure what to use that for (besides torrent seeding)

zhouzhao9• 6 months ago

It's similar.

The DT is not doing cost neutral peeing with Cloudflare. Also the DT has no (or only one 10G NIC) at the DE-CIX.

I pay 80 EUR for 1Gbps/300mbps and it's behind GPON or if you can get more XGS-PON. Not even real ethernet. It's a shame.

LargoLasskhyfv3• 6 months ago

Also the DT has no (or only one 10G NIC) at the DE-CIX.

Why would they? There is this thing called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagger_Complex

not that far away from the former https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernmeldetechnisches_Zentralam... , something like HQ of the former Gov-telco. While those have been torn down, or brought to other uses meanwhile, the Deutsche Telekom has still a massive presence in Karlsruhe. Still not that far away from the Dagger Complex.

Get what I mean?

RHab• 6 months ago

I just ended my contract with them. I could not reach my own raspberry pi Homepage which uses cloudflare. They called me and asked why I ended the contract, I told them about cloudflare, but that my cancellation is final, and magically my Homepage now works again!

usr11062• 6 months ago

237 pages, wow...

dzogchen• 6 months ago

I unfortunetely have Deutsche Telekom as my ISP and I can confirm that in the evening websites that use Cloudflare have a latency of one minute or simply do not load at all.

I don’t understand why anyone that serves the German market would use Cloudflare. Regardless of who is at fault, you are losing a lot of customers that way.

kybernetyk3• 6 months ago

Regardless of who is at fault, you are losing a lot of customers that way.

Don't know. Germans are stingy. I'm German, I live in Germany yet I don't even localize my software to German anymore because German downloads wouldn't convert in any meaningful way. (Even when I had German localization).

It's just anecdotal of course but every other dev I talked to would confirm this unless they had some very germany-specific product.

stanac• 6 months ago

One minute latency? Sound like worse experience than dial-up.

lwde3• 6 months ago

Just switch to 1und1 with good peering (:

the8472• 6 months ago

Do 1&1 customers get CGNAT or a native v4 address? I have had issues with the AFTR's port mapping tables running full when I was on Unitymedia coax.

heraldgeezer4• 6 months ago

??? Yes its called peering agreements

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

DT famously does not use them. They prefer to shut down their peers to make them become customers or fuck off, and by doing so, deliver crappy service to everyone and lose customers, except they have a monopoly so they don't lose as many customers as they should.

brynx97• 6 months ago

We have many BGP workarounds to avoid interconnection points with some of our tier 1 providers and DT because as our providers tell us, discussions with DT to add capacity are a non-starter. We've been relatively stable through a tier 2 provider through Lumen to DT though... for now. Very similar to Cogent in some regions.

tannhaeuser2• 6 months ago

Why are you leading your visitors to your channel on a monopolist site? To bring ad revenue? There's no need for video for your type of content in the first place.

I get it - a 2026 "hackers" campaign for binging yt. And in case you haven't noticed: appealing to the net neutrality debate of the last millenium is meaningless with just a bunch of monopolists left on the net profitting of vast public investments. The kind of thing traditionalist "hackers" in it for social recognition would be wasting their time on.

trinix9124• 6 months ago

Because they're betting on the video finding its way onto people's feed, thus raising awareness among non-techy people. Hard to do that with a random website.

shevy-java2• 6 months ago

The laws should be changed. Corporate overlords thinking they can milk citizens should have mandatory jail times - something reasonable like a full decade or so. That way their'll behaviour would quickly change too and they'd have to stop those "we can slow them down and they can not do anything about it" shenanigans.

madduci5• 6 months ago

I own a FTTH connection to Telekom since 2018, as the only provider in my street, allowed to install an internet connection (only glass fiber).

Since then, I have always used my own device and I maintain a GitHub Snippet in how to connect OpenWRT modem (and by extension, any other modem that supports pppoe), rather than their Huawei SpeedPort crap or the more expensive Fritz Box). Link to Gist : https://gist.github.com/madduci/8b8637b922e433d617261373220b...

I use PiHole in my own network, circumnavigating the DNS limitations, using Quad9 as my main DNS provider, but Unbound is on my to-do list.

The most concerning limitation in the German market is the unavailability of native Glass Fiber modems, that can accept as input a Glass Fiber connection: at the moment, providers install their own Glass Fiber modem. Without it, you can't actually have an internet connection at home

retired5• 6 months ago

Is it possible to use a media converter from glass fiber to RJ45/Ethernet? Those are commonly available and then you can use whatever modem/router you like.

progbits2• 6 months ago

They most likely use GPON so the optic is going to see return traffic for your neighbors. So they make it hard (but not impossible) to bring your own optic or media converter.

nandomrumber• 6 months ago

You’d need to be able to replicate whatever configuration the ISP provided device has, and they won’t give you that.

FTTH here in Australia is the same, you’re stuck using the network providers device, which just provides an Ethernet port, and a POTS port if you’re in to that sort of thing, with your LAN device connected behind it.

There was fierce lobbying back in the day (shout out to Simon Hackett / Internode) for our national broadband network to be simple dark fibre and that ISPs could build on top of that to provide innovation and differentiation.

Instead what we got was a bunch of ISPs that resell the National Broadband Network’s expensive wholesale plans with little in the way of either differentiation or innovation.

Edit to add: what the sibling comments said too.

Namidairo• 6 months ago

If I recall, for something like GPON or XGS-PON, you end up having to clone the various attributes of the original for it to work properly. This typically includes serial number, hardware id, firmware identifiers, etc.

vladvasiliu4• 6 months ago

I don't know if it's the case in Germany, but here in France consumer FTTH networks are of the GPON persuasion. These need to handle encryption and be able to properly register on the tree, so I'm not completely shocked they require some form of ISP-provided device to terminate the fiber connection.

There's also a EU law which says that users should be able to bring their own modems / routers, so AFAIK providers say that this particular terminal device is still "on their side of the network".

I've seen such devices come in two varieties.

One is a separate device which plugs on the optical network, does the encryption and stuff, and then exposes an ethernet port which is connected to the actual router which does wifi, etc. With SFR and Bouygues, it was trivial [0] to replace the ISP-provided router with one of your choosing. You get the normal external IPs and you do your thing. The ISP router sleeps in its box in storage. This was my setup up until a few years ago, with both these providers. Now SFR has moved to CGNAT, but the setup is the same, so I expect users to still be able to switch routers (but I haven't tested, since I'm not a client anymore).

Then there's Free, who provides a single device that connects to the fiber, does routing, wifi, etc. In this case, it's possible to flip a switch in its settings for it to act as a bridge (don't know how wifi behaves in this case, if it stays on). It then only accepts a single downstream client, which gets the external IP. SFR had a similar setup for DOCSIS.

I'm not familiar with how Orange, the biggest operator, functions. But I understand they have a general tendency to be a PITA so YMMV with them.

---

[0] For Bouygues, this device only talked on a tagged VLAN100 for some reason. On the SFR, the network expected you to send a client id in the DHCP request.

DannyBee4• 6 months ago

Yes, with right kind of PON SFP stick this is possible.

Most kinds of PON sticks are still in the $150-300 range though for XGS-PON

(I use an XGS-PON stick with AT&T instead of their modem)

fc417fc8026• 6 months ago

providers install their own Glass Fiber modem

It's the same in the US. The ISP fiber network falls inside their security boundary in my experience - you can't BYOD. They install a modem (these days often including an integrated router, switch, and AP) and you receive either ethernet or wifi from them.

I think the only major change in that regard has been that coaxial cable providers here will often let you bring your own docsis modem these days.

I never found any of this concerning until quite recently. With the advent of ISPs providing public wifi service out of consumer endpoints as well as wifi based radar I'm no longer comfortable having vendor controlled wireless equipment in my home.

Semaphor• 6 months ago

I don’t have fiber access, but at least for cable, my provider (formerly Kabel Deutschland, now Vodafone) allows me to put the modem/router into "modem only" mode, which then allows me to use my own router. Outside of Fritzbox (which is again a whole integrated thing; with questionable features) there aren’t many DOCSIS modems freely available, and the no-name china devices don’t seem much better than my Vodafone Box.

hdgvhicv3• 6 months ago

In the U.K. you get a PON which gives you a cat5 gig or mgig port, you then connect your router and pppoe to your ISP. Most ISPs offer a managed router but the ISPs I’ve chosen have always allowed the pppoe option.

monsieurbanana• 6 months ago

Faraday fabric is inexpensive, you can use ethernet to your own router and wrap the isp's in it.

kevin_thibedeau• 6 months ago

I have fiber in the US with just a plain ONT. Still CGNAT but I control my network. My former cable ISP permitted customer modems. It is becoming a challenge to find cable modems without router+wifi.

verall• 6 months ago

US ftth in my experience (att + gfiber) are ONT and router/wap as separate boxes and you are free to byo routerbox but have to use their ONT.

juliangmp2• 6 months ago

The most concerning limitation in the German market is the unavailability of native Glass Fiber modems, that can accept as input a Glass Fiber connection: at the moment, providers install their own Glass Fiber modem.

Im actually quite okay with that. Why should I have to pay for specialized hardware that won't be usable if I move and the new apartment uses DSL or docsis. Give me an rj45 (or sfp for some fiber connections) and let me put whatever Router I want behind it.

MarkusWandel• 6 months ago

The "glass fiber modem" is an inherent part of the GPON network. These are complicated. The "P" stands for "passive". Yours and and up to 127 other houses are all on the same "light domain" i.e. the downstream is passively split, and the upstream is passively combined, in optical boxes that don't even have electrical parts.

This needs crazy accurate timing for the upstream. The head end needs to know the exact delay to your particular box to give it a "grant" to transmit at exactly the right time so transmit bandwidth is not wasted by idle time or multiple boxes transmitting at the same time and corrupting each other.

You don't want brand X modems with dodgy configurations in this. Of course as a consumer you'd want "as little modem as possible" i.e. just give me an ethernet port running DHCP or PPPOE and let me do the rest.

perching_aix4• 6 months ago

You say "why should I have to pay", but they really haven't said or suggested anything about how they'd rather you paid for anything. They're talking about having an option to supply one's own device, not about requiring so.

The common rationale behind this I'm aware of is that an ONT device is technically a computer with persistence, hosting arbitrary code and data that you cannot (or at least not supposed to) audit or alter, despite being on your premises, operated on your cost (electricity, cooling, storage), and specifically deployed for your use. These properties hold for SFP modules too in general, not just SFP ONTs (they're all computers with persistence).

The catch is that this is further true for all of these kinds of modems.

The counter-catch is that despite that, for DSL specifically, you could absolutely bring your own modem, hw and sw both.

The counter-counter-catch is that with DSL, you were not connecting to a shared media, but point-to-point. This is unlike DOCSIS and GPON, where a misconfigured endpoint can disrupt service for other people, and possibly damage their or the provider's devices and lines.

That's all the lore I'm aware of at least.

zhouzhao9• 6 months ago

The most concerning limitation in the German market is the unavailability of native Glass Fiber modems,

This is not true for everwhere. You can totally use your own ONT or fiber modem with DTAG.

lwde3• 6 months ago

You have the right to router freedom even with FTTH. And fortunately, with DTAG FTTH, you can also book 1und1 with good peering (:

madduci5• 6 months ago

router freedom yes, but the Telekom Black Box that takes as input the Fiber cable is still a real "black box" that needs to be installed

ckbkr10• 6 months ago

Sorry to say but how you are framing things is simply not true anymore.

You are not required to buy their "Glasfaser Modem 2" you can buy any ONT Modem.

You are not required to use any of their equipment, they give you the data to connect via PPPOE directly.

I bought a house with FTTH in 2023 and never used any Telekom hardware. Nobody forces you to use the peer DNS. The telekom DNS isn't complying to https://cuii.info/anordnungen/ because they want to but to avoid being sued everytime some company wants to block an illegal streaming site.

iggldiggl• 6 months ago

Nobody forces you to use the peer DNS.

For practical purposes there's the problem (at least a few years ago?) though that Akamai in particular uses DNS to steer you to the correct portion of its CDN and the default IPs returned by independent DNS resolvers tended to have relatively abysmal peering with the Telekom network that was getting completely overloaded at peak times.

Unfortunately "use <insert favourite DNS provider here> everywhere except for Akamai CDN, for which use the Telekom DNS" isn't something that consumer routers support, so you'd have to start running your own custom DNS resolver to work around that problem…

madduci5• 6 months ago

Don't you have the small black glass fiber box that takes as input the fiber glass cable and outputs a rj45 port?

bobmcnamara2• 6 months ago

For PONs you can get a programmable SFP+ and clone the manuif, devid, and password into it.

TacticalCoder• 6 months ago

I use PiHole in my own network, circumnavigating the DNS limitations, using Quad9 as my main DNS provider, but Unbound is on my to-do list.

Why is PiHole necessary to dodge DNS limitations: can't you just put Quad9 as the DNS in your router/FritzBox?

Now I switched from PiHole to running unbound on a... Pi! I did that years ago: do it, you won't be disappointed.

I don't have the shiny PiHole UI anymore but I don't care: unbound supports wildcards to blacklist domains and that's what I care the most about.

So a Pi with unbound then dnsmasq on my Linux desktop: this makes for very speedy lookups (as most queries are hitting the cache).

MaKey• 6 months ago

You might be able to switch to a different ISP, e. g. 1&1. They rent the line from Telekom but you still get their peering.

jon_adler• 6 months ago

As a fellow OpenWRT user who tried many DNS solutions including unbound, also consider NextDNS. They are pretty awesome.

xg15• 6 months ago

I like the subtle bit of trolling they did with the page color: DT had registered that shade of magenta as a trademark, made it a core part of their brand and generally was VERY vocal in public about "owning" that color. [1, 2]

Though more recently they seem to have lost that protection. [3]

So if that page now deliberately uses the "Telekom color" to call out their bad behavior, that's a statement on its own.

[1] https://adage.com/article/digital/t-mobile-says-it-owns-excl...

[2] https://www.exali.de/Info-Base/magenta-markenstreit (in German)

[3] https://chiever.nl/en/blog-en/t-mobile-loses-the-protection-...

mjlee• 6 months ago

That's the first thing I saw too. dataJAR (an Apple MDM service company in the UK) were targetted in the UK for using a different shade of pink in a different industry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-44107621

andreldm• 6 months ago

I have a contract with a smaller German ISP (Pyur), they do throttling too, uploading to Backblaze quickly gets capped to a few hundred bytes, sometimes the connection gets aborted. Using Mullvad or Tor gets around that. I considered switching to Telekom or Vodafone, gave up because they are even more expensive and now this.

coretx• 6 months ago

Nothing will come out of this unless all former state monopolists are targeted at the same time.

fbcpck• 6 months ago

I literally could not ssh into several of my servers since last week, and could only do so through my berlin server.

Yes, I have to rent a local server to proxy all my home network through it, otherwise it is unreliable or outright does not work. It is absurd.

0xcb0• 6 months ago

Telekom is a bunch of strange folks. I lately was not able to send mails, from my private mail servrr to my fathers telekom mail. After investigation I found out my server got blocked. After a decade of working. I mailed them, and they told me to register my mailserver with them. I shall tell them what mails I will send from there and about what content. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Sure, thats how mail was supposed to work. Register with every mail server in the world, before you can send mail.

Their mail excerpt: This system has not sent any e-mail to our customers for a long time. For security reasons our systems will only accept e-mails from such IP addresses after a check of setup and information about these systems.

Please give us details about this system and the company using it, tell us all about the sending domain, what type of e-mail will be sent and especially if you or your customer want to send newsletter give us detailed information on how recipients e-mail addresses had been acquired. Who in person is responsible for e-mail sent from this system (MTA)?

Please be advised that only technically proper configured and very well maintained systems are qualified for a reset of reputation and please see our FAQ section 4.1 (Requirements for smooth access to our e-mail exchanges <https://postmaster.t-online.de/index.en.html#t4.1>):

"There must be a domain and website with direct contact information easily deducible from the delivering IP's hostname (FQDN)."

Avamander2• 6 months ago

That policy of theirs has existed for a long time now. It's a really odd one at that.

They also don't enforce DMARC, nor do DKIM. It's stuck nearly four decades in the past.

7bit2• 6 months ago

That's Germany in a nutshell.

wolvoleo3• 6 months ago

Microsoft has a similar policy on their consumer domains though. If they have not received mail from you for a month or so you are insta blocked. It's infuriating for personal mail server owners.

fuzzy22• 6 months ago

At least they respond quickly to such inquiries. I have given up on T-Online Mail. I refuse to follow ridiculous rules like these.

vjerancrnjak• 6 months ago

I think this is standard. It applies to domains as well. I experienced government services blocks as well -- they send me an email, yet block my reply. I complain every time and rarely does anyone care, the support person does not escalate, so my email remains blocked, sometimes I'm told system is working as configured, completely ignoring that I am a real person and system is hostile towards me.

It's just general fragility of tech and lack of care from the creators/maintainers. These systems are steampunk, fragile contraptions that no one cares to actually make human friendly or are built on crappy foundations.

hirako2000• 6 months ago

We call it the email mafia.

To send emails we need to pay for a mail service. Or get ads of course Gmail is part of the ring.

Like most things it start with good intentions, to fight spam. As if it even worked, I guess we would get far more without they will say.

myself2482• 6 months ago

Is there a government requirement to be reachable by its citizens? That would seem to violate it.

nik736• 6 months ago

Well, we have to "register" every new IP or new mail server with them as well. It's annoying and a weird system, but they respond quickly and it's just one todo we have to think about.

anal_reactor2• 6 months ago

about what content

Ask ChatGPT to generate you a very long very graphic story about how much you'd like to fuck a dog and your father is the only person who understands your desires and you want to discuss this with him via email. While fucking dogs is illegal in Germany, talking about it is (probably) not. Make the guy who asked the question regret doing it.

egeozcan2• 6 months ago

I'll give you an insider info: There's no guy! Your response would be filtered away by the profanity filter and nobody working in Telekom will ever read any of it.

Hell, I can even say, likely, nobody will ever read it, regardless of how you answer.

Those companies only respond to lawyers.

Cockbrand• 6 months ago

Been there, done that. After a bit of back and forth, Telekom basically recommended that I go and use one of the big SMTP servers and stop bothering them. While I hated myself for doing it, I eventually switched to Gmail for peace of mind.

bayindirh• 6 months ago

This is one of the reasons why I'm not planning to host my own e-mail server. It's not that I can't do it, but I don't want to sink time into investigating and working around/solving things like that.

nerdponx• 6 months ago

Does Fastmail have any clout in Europe? I've been a customer for the better part of a decade (with my own domain name) and I've never had a mail delivery issue.

glitchc• 6 months ago

Unfortunately some inbound servers will block emails if the originating server does not match the From: address.

Asmod4n• 6 months ago

but the fun thing about them is, they allow you to impersonate any mail address you want with their smtp server.

Aka, when you are a customer of them you get a @t-online.de address and login data for their smtp server.

You can just login into that server and set the From: Header to anything, they don't check.

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

In Germany I'd be surprised if the police didn't come to your house when you did that, and take all your computers to find evidence you sent it, and you're not getting them back even if you're proven innocent.

AnthonyMouse3• 6 months ago

Isn't that fairly common? You could then put in some other address, but you could do the same thing by setting up your own mail server, and in the former case you're not even really anonymous because the headers are going to show it was sent through their mail server and their mail server's logs will show which account was used to send the message.

lwhi• 6 months ago

They just want to make sure you're not a spammer.

technothrasher• 6 months ago

Well, I don't know if that is better or worse than my experience with Comcast. They will usually unblock my emails within a day of my sending an unblock request, no questions asked... and then block me again after a few days, with no explanation as to why. I've had this IP for years, I have spf, dkim, and dmarc all property configured, I'm not on any blocklists, and I only send a very small volume of personal emails from the server.

idiotsecant• 6 months ago

Does anyone self host email anymore successfully? I'm honestly asking. I would like to but it seems like a full time job trying to keep it running. Are there halfway solutions where maybe you own the service and domain and it runs somewhere trusted?

fuzzy22• 6 months ago

Sure. Highly successful even, I would say. I can deliver to Microsoft and Google.

Not sure though what the magic ingredient is. I've had the IP address for 7 years before I decided to use it for mail, after one quick mail to Cisco's Talos stuff everything was fine. Software is Mailcow. Hosted at Hetzner in Germany.

And still, I cannot deliver to T-Online, so there's that.

rsync• 6 months ago

I self host email and have done so, with the same domain, since ~2000.

My IP has not changed since 2010 and I have perfect dkim/dmarc/rdns and whatever duct taped bullshit de jure is currently being practiced.

Everything generally works.

seszett• 6 months ago

I have been running my mail server for about 20 years now, using three different domains.

I have switched servers regularly, mostly between OVH/online.net/Hetzner since they are the three big cheap European hosts. I have also used various server software, now happily running OpenSMTPd.

I have had a few problems with Microsoft in the past but contacting them (what made me care enough was marrying someone with an @hotmail email address) eventually fixed delivery for good. No notable delivery problems otherwise. I also run my company's mail server, it works fine too (with a much larger volume and different usage patterns), also running out of OVH servers.

What I recommend for people who don't want to do sysadmin is buying a domain at OVH to use the free email service offered with it. It's cheap and works, and it's easy to switch to another registrar or provider if needed.

njt• 6 months ago

I've been self-hosting my email for a little over 2 decades.

The basic setup has more or less stayed the same, but there's some more extra components around it you have to know now (spam filtering and SPF/DKIM/DMARC come readily to mind).

To quote Michael Lucas: "everything complicated about emails revolves around spam and not getting it". I highly recommend his book, "Run Your Own Mail Server".[1]

In short, hosting your own email is not that bad at all. I strongly suspect, like many other skills, since it has atrophied with the advent of the cloud and people readily giving up to the large carriers, it has gotten the reputation of being hard, or as you said, a full time job. I don't think either of those things are true.

[1] https://mwl.link/run-your-own-mail-server.html

hnben• 6 months ago

I selfhost for >10 years, but only for receiving, i.e. I can not send anything from my domain, because I thought that would have been to much stress to set up.

My setup: I have a root server with DNS attached to it. On there is a postfix, with a minimal config that forwards all emails to my real address on posteo.eu. And posteo has not given me any trouble with any of my emails at all.

I use this setup, so I can easily give new email-addresses to individual web services, and it gives me the option to selectively block these addresses.

Last year I brought the big abo from proton, which includes throwaway mailadresses, and I am thinking about migrating my mail setup there.

phit_• 6 months ago

fwiw t-online.de hasn't been owned by Deutsche Telekom since 2015

yayachiken7• 6 months ago

Small tangent, but I feel like it is a good time to drop the term "net neutrality", which covers way too much ground. In the past in political discussions, the term "violation of net neutrality" was used to protest multiple different issues:

* Traffic shaping (e.g. slowing down Bittorrent traffic)

* Traffic fast lanes (pay for priority access to some content providers)

* Selective zero-rating (exclude some providers from counting towards a traffic limit)

* Artificial peering restriction (what Telekom is doing, usually via forcing content providers into paid peering agreements)

I think people should start using more specific terms that are understandable for non-technical people, because otherwise the discussion becomes confused, which helps the providers.

Lots of semi-technical people think that "violating net neutrality" refers to traffic fast lanes, because the last time this discussion entered the public was when the US social media was in uproar about FCC rules 10 years ago.

What Telekom is doing looks similar to the outside (some content providers are fast, some are not), but they can just deflect by saying that they do not intentionally throttle traffic, which is pretty much true, as they hit their physical bottlenecks. If you are knowledgable enough as a lawmaker to press them on the peering issue, they could argue that forcing peering would force them to pay rent at Internet Exchanges, just so other providers have good access. Where they also kind of have a point.

And even lots of technical people have no clue about peering, transit etc. and treat their uplink as a blackbox, a cloud in their network chart where the Internet comes out.

For the Telekom case, we would need a different legislation, for example make paid peering agreements between providers illegal or at least regulated, which would then be an incentive to be generally well-connected (free mutual peering is usually considered a win-win scenario unless you are Deutsche Telekom and can use your market power to bully other market participants into another form of rent extraction). And that means that lawmakers and the public need to understand first the specific problem we are fighting.

sgjohnson8• 6 months ago

For the Telekom case, we would need a different legislation, for example make paid peering agreements between providers illegal or at least regulated, which would then be an incentive to be generally well-connected (free mutual peering is usually considered a win-win scenario unless you are Deutsche Telekom and can use your market power to bully other market participants into another form of rent extraction). And that means that lawmakers and the public need to understand first the specific problem we are fighting.

Realistically not going to happen, as the effort would need to be global. Like, Cogent STILL refuses to transit-free IPv6 peer with HE. https://bgp.tools/kb/partitions.

T1s are very happy where they are, and it's an exclusive club. Any attempts to tame this behavior from DTAG will also face backlash from basically all the other T1s.

yayachiken7• 6 months ago

Regulating peering within the EU would already be a win.

The providers are then free to either move out of the EU market, or let their non-EU traffic flow via the (then likely larger) unrestricted pipes at DECIX and AMSIX. If they think that routing everything via EU is cheaper instead of just peering better in the other parts of the world to deliver traffic locally, then be it, that is their own economic freedom to decide so.

But they will realistically not do that. Also, SDNs will likely never go back to serving content in Europe from e.g. the US. Good connectivity is just generally the economically better option.

That being said, T1 companies like Deutsche Telekom who also serve a large consumer base via broadband and mobile and not just other large business networks are probably more vulnerable to such legislation than an exclusive transit provider.

andersa• 6 months ago

People use the same word because all of those actions have the same result for an end user.

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

There's no such thing as paid peering, is there? There's only being a customer. DT wants you to buy transit to get access to their customers.

yayachiken7• 6 months ago

Peering just means that two AS physically connect to each other directly. Whether this peering is paid or not is independent from the technical implementation.

Just nearly everybody except Telekom is doing this on a liberal and informal not-even-handshake basis. On ISP scale, you either invest in infrastructure, or pay rent for network ports or cross-links, and you generally want your traffic usage to be smooth without spikes, and also go to the destination without going through your expensive ports more than once. So general connectivity is more important than any kind of traffic metering.

7bit2• 6 months ago

All the points you list contribute to the Internet being neutral or not, therefore of course these items come up in discussions.

wmf• 6 months ago

Replacing net neutrality with a bunch of smaller issues means you have to educate and lobby N times as much. And every time ISPs find a new loophole you'd have to start from scratch.

Looking at this case specifically, "fast lane" is not a technical term so maybe in your mind it only means packet scheduling not refusal to upgrade capacity but that's not a universal definition.

Elfener• 6 months ago

ISPs are the worst.

Currently I use Telekom's 5G for my home internet connection in Hungary as Telekom is the only company who has a cable in my street, but they refused to sell me wired internet due to the hole they use to take their underground cable up to the houses being already over capacity (it turns out this "hole" serves like the entire street with cables being run across everyone's attic...).

I previously used yettel/telenor's 4G (basically as fast as Telekom's 5G because their 5G is a scam, although Yettel's 5G is even more scammy, it is slower than their 4G) but they broke their routers, I had comical packet loss and they refused to fix it (technically, when you pay for a cellular connection, the required uptime in the contract is zero). They also started CGNAT-ing in order to supposedly "improve security" (wtf..) just before I switched (this now means that their "internet-focused" plans have just CGNAT-ed IPv4, while their "non-internet focused" cellular plans have CGNAT-ed IPv4 AND IPv6 (makes sense).

In any case, I now use Telekom's 5G with CGNAT-ed IPv4, just a single /64 IPv6 and forced separation (it is illegal to have a stable internet connection, they disconnect you just before reaching 24h of uptime).

sgjohnson8• 6 months ago

ISPs are the worst.

DTAG is not just a run-of-the-mill consumer ISP. They are a global Tier-1 carrier.

Which of course makes their behavior all that much worse.

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

You don't want a tier 1 carrier as your ISP because they are severely limited in connectivity — they only connect to paying customers and other tier 1s. They are to be used as a last resort by the tier 2 ISPs, who provide good packet routing by selecting the best routes from among several backbones.

Never thought I'd see this play out in practice, especially with a consumer ISP. Normally this comes up with server hosting, not consumer ISPs.

holowoodman4• 6 months ago

They are a tier-1-wannabe. Tier 1 in prices, tier 3 in connectivity. No international peering to speak of, negligible international cables and presence compared to real tier 1.

wildylion• 6 months ago

Maybe get some Star link if you can... (Cringe worthy because of some musky husky guy, but at least it works for now).

virtuallynathan• 6 months ago

Try Starlink?

xinayder• 6 months ago

I think this is also relevant, after finding out Telekom, in Hungary, has the worst routes possible for some game servers:

https://mtpeering.pages.dev/

oceze• 6 months ago

Bojler elado!

metanonsense• 6 months ago

Honestly a crappy situation. In Germany, Telekom is a monopolistic bully. In evening hours, any service behind Cloudflare more or less stops working (for instance, before I cancelled my subscription, chess.com web assets were delivered with neck-breaking 5kB/s, which made loading a 20MB wasm for stockfish analysis no fun).. but there are absolutely no viable alternatives that aren’t also crappy: Vodafone -> same peering idiocy, Starlink -> king Elon). VPNs make things complicated, but are often the only alternative.

oytis• 6 months ago

I am on o2 and didn't have any problems with availability that I would notice.

jesprenj2• 6 months ago

Slovenian ISP T-2.net also violates local network neutrality laws here by requiring customers to pay extra to unblock some special TCP ports, like 25 and 53, meaning they block selfhosting email and dns servers without additional payment. I filed a complaint to the national regulator AKOS. They first responded with agreeing with me, but nothing was fixed for many months, and upon emailing the regulator again, I received a different response from another employee claiming that charging more for unblocking special applications is legal (it's not).

sgjohnson8• 6 months ago

Blocking port 25 is perfectly reasonable.

There are no sane and legitimate reasons for running an SMTP server on a residential connection. Even most server providers will block it unless you give them some very good reasons.

Blocking 53 is just weird though.

daneel_w2• 6 months ago

I'm not sure you read the OP's comment in full. They are talking about inbound traffic from the Internet. It's certainly a lot more common a case to self-host an MX than running an open DNS resolver or authorative name server.

tsss• 6 months ago

Whether or not I have a sane reason to use port 25 is none of their business.

myself2482• 6 months ago

Define "residential connection".

There is no such thing. A connection to the internet should be equal to any other connection to the internet, modulo BGP peering. Noone has a right to dictate what services I run or don't run, what protocols I speak or don't speak, what traffic I accept or deny, but *me*. That's the whole point of being on the internet rather than Prodigy or Compuserve or something.

The physical location of that connection is irrelevant. Maybe I feel my servers are safer in a datacenter. Maybe I feel they're safer in my basement. In my case, it is very much the latter, and again, you don't get to make that call. I do.

franga20002• 6 months ago

Calling this "paying to unlock ports" is disingenuous. I'm also a T-2 customer and have run into this before. They block ports on dynamic IPs, but if you pay +2€/mo for static, this is unlocked. This seems reasonable. If you're not paying for static IPv4, you're paying for "internet access", whether that's a rarely chaning dynamic IPv4, a constantly changing IPv4 or full CGNAT.

Would you also say your mobile phone operator is violating net neutrality by putting you behind CGNAT that you can't forward arbitrary ports through? You can pay a bunch of money to get a private APN and get public IPv4 addresses. Would you call that an unblock fee?

direwolf2018• 6 months ago

I've been told there's a law that my mobile phone operator has to turn off all firewalling on my connection if I ask.

Dylan168073• 6 months ago

They block ports on dynamic IPs, but if you pay +2€/mo for static, this is unlocked. This seems reasonable.

Why does that seem reasonable to you? Why should dynamic IPs not be able to receive incoming connections? It costs them nothing to let those packets through.

disingenuous

Bad.

Would you also say your mobile phone operator is violating net neutrality by putting you behind CGNAT that you can't forward arbitrary ports through?

CGNAT is pretty awful, but at least there's a reason for connections to fail.

But sure, if I had control I would mandate that CGNAT lets you forward ports. Maybe you don't always control the external port, but there shouldn't be any other compromises.

You can pay a bunch of money to get a private APN and get public IPv4 addresses. Would you call that an unblock fee?

That's a workaround to get a different connection, not an unblock, so no.

trinix9124• 6 months ago

Another T-2 customer here. I never ran into issues with port blocking (but didn't try 25/53), even more, I had a "free" static IPv4 on DSL before we got the fiber line, but I've lately been noticing random connection slowdowns. Never had significant slowdowns with DSL.

I've talked to a few people (Telemach customers) who told me it happens every now and then, they call the support center that tells them to restart the modem (even if they'd done it before) and then the connection magically works at full speed again.

Could it just be that it all goes through Telekom Slovenije who does some weird load balancing? Definitely worth an investigation, but ZPS might be a better address for this than AKOS.

jesprenj2• 6 months ago

Telemach is also funny in net-neutrality regard:

Article 7.2 of their terms of service https://telemach.si/download/terms/splosni-pogoji-poslovanja...

Naročnik se obvezuje, da po priključitvi na omrežje izvajalca: ... * ne bo postavljal strežnikov na svoji lokaciji, razen v primeru sklenitve ustreznega dogovora z izvajalcem, ...

It states that customers are bound not to setup servers on their internet connection point without prior aproval by the ISP. It sounds against the law to forbid this, albeit ianal.

nottorp2• 6 months ago

DT owned for a long time what remained of the former state phone operator in Romania.

They were the only provider that hijacked DNS lookup failures to redirect to their own page.

They're gone out of this market now, fortunately.

zhouzhao9• 6 months ago

Glad to hear again, that Romania is living in the future of the Internet.

nottorp2• 6 months ago

It looks good still, but we're down to 3 major providers. The future may bring entshitification yet...

micw2• 6 months ago

Fun fact: Deutsche Telekom just started their ad campaign "being better in the best network" (https://www.telekom.com/de/medien/medieninformationen/detail...). While they have the worst network of all, especially when it comes to peering (30% of the internet is just slow over Telekom but fast over Telekom + any VPN).

hermanzegerman4• 6 months ago

Yeah, but they're the only network when you want to have cellphone reception outside of dense cities. You can completely forget O2 and Vodafone if you go hiking/skiing in the Black Forest, or on the Beach at the German Islands.

Also Vodafone outsourced their peering to a subcontractor, and doesn't do any public peering at all anymore. So I guess Telekom still isn't the worst Network at all

zhouzhao9• 6 months ago

That is sadly the truth. They also charge the most per GB, but you can use any of their resellers like Congstar.

Just checkout DTAG's 5G network coverage on Breitbandatlas.

micw2• 6 months ago

So they should re-label the ad campaign as "Could be worse" :-)

syntaxing• 6 months ago

I’m on Comcast and I strongly believe they’re selling my data to brokers from the targeted ads I see. I paid for WARP+ from cloudflare and the targeted ads dropped noticeably.

chorizoking• 6 months ago

Commenting from my alt to avoid doxxing myself. Have spent over a decade in various 'large' streaming video companies, the ones you absolutely know about today.

DTAG is bar none the worst ISP to work with. Everything they do is politics, they may decide to 'forget' to increase the bandwidth on a PNI until you take a meeting with german regulators. Almost every other ISP views PNI as the best way to uphold customer satisfaction without breaking the bank over a more expensive IX and will happily add ports when needed, DTAG on the other hand often requires concessions and selective agreements with a lot of strings attached.

I don't think Germans realize just how much DTAG is holding the experience back for end users (given it's partially state-owned)

zhouzhao9• 6 months ago

I don't think Germans realize just how much DTAG is holding the experience back for end users

The ones not on HN probably just notice that their internet is getting slow after 5 p.m

Trust me, I know how much they suck and I still had to enter a 2-year contract just to get fiber optics in my house.

pimeys3• 6 months ago

They tried to install it to our home too, but our landlord just didn't do anything to help them to open doors and now we've been soon waiting two years for the connection.

The more I read about DTAG the happier I feel like using our cable connection which, upstream excluded, works quite well.

We're about to buy our apartment in Berlin and that changes things. I hope we have soonpre choice on the fiber operator.

mikigraf• 6 months ago

I thought I was crazy for thinking that Reddit LinkedIn and half of the internet becomes unusable past 6pm.. now I know why

account42• 6 months ago

Unfortunately, it's not just DTAG but all Internet providers are overpriced crap here.

LargoLasskhyfv3• 6 months ago

There are some good regional ones, operated by public utilities mostly.

Insane pings, excellent peering, giving a totally different internet experience from the mainstream ones.

notTooFarGone• 6 months ago

As a german I hate DTAG with a passion for many many failures in throttling and just for the most expensive prices in europe. I just hate Vodafone more which is a hard thing to achieve but there are no other options in most cities.

lc5G• 6 months ago

How can I learn about which ISPs have better peering and net neutrality etc? Are there websites that keep track of this and compare it?

ainiriand• 6 months ago

Their standard plan offerings could be already be considered throttling. I moved to Spain and I have 1gbit up/down.

cheese_van• 6 months ago

My offhand impression is that when I was in Germany, consumers were oddly suspicious of the Internet in general and very suspicious of social media in particular. That suspicion was somewhat translated into a lackadaisical attitude about service quality. Perhaps that attitude is finally changing because DT simply won't care unless there is a sufficiently large enough vocal public to force the issue.

Deutsche Telekom is throttling the internet

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