My phone is an ereader now

https://www.davepagurek.com/blog/minimal-phone/

by wonger_ • 11 months ago

332 118 11 months ago

walthamstow2• 11 months ago

I really enjoy these posts where people use new or weird devices in their lives to see how they fit. That said, this is missing one crucial piece of information: the price. The Minimal Phone is 399 USD for 128GB/6GB and 499 for 256GB/8GB.

chmod775• 11 months ago

In world where you can get both a proper phone and an e-reader with better specs for less, the market for that kind of product isn't large. Though there's probably a decent overlap with the HN crowd, who thinks its neat and can afford to throw away money on something that will collect dust in a drawer a week later.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2• 11 months ago

Better specs should fit a specific use case. Now, I get that everyone gets excited for various specs ( in TVs, it was a simple 'biggest size possible' ). And it does not help that advertising effectively subsidizes lower price, and effective monopoly further locks users into 'better specs' stuff.

Admittedly, I do have things that are collecting dust ( pinephone being one of the bigger disappointments thus far ), but without HN crowd testing those alternatives, non-HN crowd wouldn't even know firefox existed and now we would likely all be living in IE salt mines.

dandelionv1bes• 11 months ago

Great post, thanks to you I’ve realised I use the “how much am I reading” to how burnt out am I proxy.

Quite tempted by the phone, but predominately a physical book reader.

cousin_it• 11 months ago

I've wished for years that there would be an actual e-ink only laptop. Or (even better) an aftermarket e-ink screen for my current laptop, because I'm quite happy with the rest of the machine.

VoidWhisperer2• 11 months ago

Are there any e-ink displays with a reasonable enough refresh rate that aren't exorbitantly expensive? I know atleast as of a few years ago that was one of the issues that would've impeded an e-ink only laptop

Gys• 11 months ago

From what I read some time ago, e-ink displays use almost as much energy as normal displays if the contents change all the time. The one benefit of e-ink is the ability to show static content without using energy.

dvdkon• 11 months ago

I feel like e-ink displays/EPDs are widely used, but underexplored, by major manufacturers at least. The person behind the Modos project already linked by someone else has put a lot of effort into pushing EPDs to their limits and put together the best technical documentation for EPDs that I know of: https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider

EDIT: Here's an older demo of theirs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduK7wn9SE4

xelxebar• 11 months ago

You might be interested in this:

https://www.crowdsupply.com/modos-tech/modos-paper-monitor

It's just a dev kit run, but I've got high hopes for the whole Modos project.

Elfener• 11 months ago

Somewhat recently Lenovo had the experimental laptop "ThinkBook Plus Gen 4": https://psref.lenovo.com/WDProduct/ThinkBook/ThinkBook_Plus_...

It featured a netvertible design that had a regular screen on one side and an e-ink on the other. I thought that was a pretty good idea, though this laptop had some questionable decisions, like only usb-c as IO.

mariusor• 11 months ago

The phone I loved the best was a Motorola F3, which was I think the first e-ink phone ever. It looks like this phone is an worthy successor.

nullify88• 11 months ago

Jeez that phone was available new for £10. Do such phones exist these days?

toast02• 11 months ago

Maybe not quite that low, and not from established brands, but search aliexpress for lte phone and there's several for $30-$50. I didn't look at the lte bands they support, which is important if you're going to use one or these (but I have trust issues that would need to be solved first)

y-curious• 11 months ago

I was far from sold. The entire article feels more like a lifestyle challenge on YouTube than a convincing life change.

The author makes great sacrifices to make the phone work in his life. He mentions: - The phone needs to be put in his pocket a certain way or it takes input - The phone loses keypresses when typing quickly - It can only render readable Google maps when set to the slowest setting - The phone forgets your fingerprint and requires pin, which suffers from dropped inputs

The author brings up the point that 2 developers work on the phone. The author doesn't mention, but I think should mention, that this phone WILL have vulnerabilities not found on flagship phones. Anyone security minded is going to be lost here.

Overall, I want a phone like this, but the sacrifices are way too numerous to justify it.

boomskats• 11 months ago

Wait, so this thing actually shipped? To real users? I remember looking into it and concluding that it'd probably be vapeware, given the aggressive pre-release marketing and the founder's track record.

If it's a real device then that's awesome! If it wasn't for Zinwa I'd probably be getting one.

jbstack2• 11 months ago

The keyboard is a huge negative for me. Why would I want a significant chunk of my screen space taken up by a keyboard on a device that I'm aiming to use primarily for reading?

wkat42423• 11 months ago

I guess it aims at the blackberry passport types. There's a lot of people still missing that one

afandian4• 11 months ago

We exist and have been unhappy with our iPhones ever since our BlackBerries died. Seriously. This thing makes me feel so clumsy.

wowczarek2• 11 months ago

It amazes me (and that's on the account of me getting older) how people not immediately associate it with the a BB phone. I remember complaining at how BlackBerry 10 took away lots of usability tricks and keyboard shortcuts the classic BlackBerry OS had, and also how laughable it was that the original iPhone didn't even support copying and pasting on release. Oh how things have changed.

the_real_cher• 11 months ago

Huge selling point for me. I prefer a manual keyboard.

jbstack2• 11 months ago

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising manual keyboards in general. Just specifically on a device for which your primary purpose will be reading (which is what the OP's article is about). If I'm going to be mainly reading on the device then I want as big a screen as possible.

mft_• 11 months ago

I wonder if there’s a technical reason making an on-screen keyboard difficult? For sure, typing on my Kindle is pretty slow and imprecise, and wouldn’t come close to acceptable on a phone.

Also, there are phone-shaped e-readers if that’s your bent; check out the Boox Palma.

suthakamal• 11 months ago

my guess - e ink refresh rates / ghosting suck and it would be hellish hard to get an on screen keyboard with an e ink display to get anywhere the typing speed a modern touchscreen can deliver.

floundy2• 11 months ago

Typing on the Palma's screen sucks due to the input delay. At least if you have fat fingers like me and prone to making typos on touchscreen devices.

Typing on the Palma with a BT keyboard, however, is an absolute joy.

toast02• 11 months ago

I've got a Kindle Keyboard, and it's nice because I can input words at reasonable speed and don't need to touch the screen and get it fingerprinty. Kindles with the five-way button were a pain to input words into, but the page turn buttons were nice.

A_Duck• 11 months ago

e-Ink seems like the perfect solution to : how do I make my phone functional for when I need to use it, but unpleasant enough I don’t want to use it

At the moment I have my iphone set to black-and-white but still find myself idly browsing

I think I’ll buy this phone

colingauvin4• 11 months ago

I can confirm that this phone is perfect for it. Everything is there and usable if you truly need it, but I cannot wait to put the phone back in my pocket because of unpleasant it is to use.

jeeezus• 11 months ago

Ditch the keyboard and price it like a kindle and I'm sold.

pjerem• 11 months ago

You may try to import Hisense e-ink phones from china.

They can be flashed with Lineage OS and have a standard smartphone form factor but with an e-ink screen.

Pay attention that they also exists with color eink screen and that those versions are more expensive.

Seattle3503• 11 months ago

Is there a guide you followed?

ipcress_file2• 11 months ago

Check out the Mudita Kompakt.*

*not priced like a Kindle :)

marticode• 11 months ago

Reminds me of that phone that had a regular screen on one side and e-ink on the other side. Maybe someone should make a foldable where the outside screen is an e-ink and the inside a regular foldable OLED.

chossenger• 11 months ago

YotaPhone? Looks like the went bankrupt in 2019, unfortunately. I was always intrigued by them.

dddw• 11 months ago

Hisense A6 came out with that idea too not superlong ago

jokethrowaway• 11 months ago

We really need better software for this type of phone to take off.

The technology is needed to avoid short video / social media addiction but a working map app is a must.

nesk_7• 11 months ago

I've been searching for dumb phones these last weeks to avoid using my phone too much. But it comes with issues:

- my bank requires a smartphone

- whatsapp desktop requires a smartphone too

This smartphone could be an alternative: no videos, you can still use third party applications, perfect for reading.

Thank you for sharing!

walthamstow2• 11 months ago

The WhatsApp thing can be worked around now. If you have one compliant device logged into WhatsApp as the main device, you can access that account and messages from any other device, including smartphones. I have a WhatsApp device that just stays at home.

nesk_7• 11 months ago

But you need two devices, and this seems overkill. Without this limitation you could have only one phone.

carlosjobim3• 11 months ago

You are allowed to have more than one phone.

nesk_7• 11 months ago

You're right, but I don't appreciate to be enforced to.

nottorp2• 11 months ago

Have you tried turning off all notifications on your existing phone?

From the original article: "I feel like the vibration on the phone is a tad aggressive. Not every vibration is, though—Facebook Messenger notifications feel like the right level. ".

It looks like the article author makes the same mistake. Changed the device but kept the notifications on.

nesk_7• 11 months ago

Notifications aren't the culprit, they're already really limited on my phone.

I also appreciate the fact that I could use a simpler phone that really fits the original need: staying in contact, instead of doom-scrolling.

Egrodo• 11 months ago

On Whatsapp web you can now log in with your phone number via a 2fac text, no camera required.

nesk_7• 11 months ago

That's good to know, but you still need a smartphone to handle the connection. Having a dumb phone wouldn't work, if I properly understand how this works.

dotancohen• 11 months ago

  > whatsapp desktop requires a smartphone too

Just so you know, I don't use WhatsApp and find that today, everyone knows Telegram and many already have it installed. Moving to Telegram is completely feasible.

The Telegram desktop app does not require an active smartphone.

nesk_7• 11 months ago

I totally agree with you, but asking my friends to move to Telegram isn't easy. And multiplying the channels is a complex thing. Nowadays I have iMessage, Messenger, WhatsApp—I deliberately omit Slack and Discord—and sometimes I wonder "where is the discussion with friend X?"

jonathantf2• 11 months ago

not in Europe - everybody uses WA here, work group chats, friends, parents, etc. My dad sometimes uses iMessage because he can’t see the difference between the icons but apart from that you’d get strange looks if you mentioned Telegram/Signal etc

coffeefirst• 11 months ago

Right. I also need 1Password, full access to docs and notes while traveling, and the list starts to go on.

Ultimately, technologists with cash to burn buying limited devices doesn’t actually address the big problem. What we really want is for mainstream devices to be less frenetic.

jokoon• 11 months ago

1. I type faster with a touchscreen because I use the swipe finger thing, so a physical keyboard is not really that interesting

2. I doubt that keyboard will last forever, it will probably get quite dirty or tired.

3. I don't think an ink screen saves that much power.

4. I just have a cheap smartphone without 4G internet, 2 euros/months, 50MB in case I need to read some email. That way I will not stay on my phone for long.

5. I watch movies and shows on my phone, actually.

6. Physical books feel better, honestly.

Although I can find it useful to write code with it, but again, apps are not tailored to write code, the toolchains are not made for it.

LightBug1• 11 months ago

Can't win ... I really want to go this direction. Someone mentioned the Boox Palma which looks great ... and then I imagine taking or viewing photos/videos with it.

And then I get back to - ok, just get a normal e-reader and normal mobile phone.

Someone school me on why I'm wrong, thanks.

ImPleadThe5th• 11 months ago

Sounds like 2 devices is the solution for you.

I'm considering this phone because I'd like to box my media consumption to when I'm at home (at my desk). I however still need a device with Whatsapp + Authenticator to go about my day to day life.

Honestly if I could get one of those not taking paperwhites with a sim, Whatsapp and my authenticator app I would just run that.

swores2• 11 months ago

"why would it format "city Hall" with just one capital? Commit to capitals or no capitals, don't do this awkward mix!"

I don't have a great solution but I suspect I do know the cause of this on iPhones, which I'll mention for anyone else curious:

I'd bet that he has a contact saved called Something Hall, and the autocorrect isn't clever enough to realise that he isn't typing the name of that contact and just automatically capitalises the H. (It's not 100% of the time, but it is ridiculously often that it wrongly assumes you're using the name from a contact, in my experience.)

I wish there was a way to turn this off, but afaik there isn't - I've removed or edited a contact's surname for a few words that I type as non-name nouns often enough that it got annoying.

Of course I might be wrong, maybe there are other causes for incorrect capitals.

lucasban• 11 months ago

On a related note, I have a Korean friend who’s name sounds similar to a floor number in the parking garage I use. When I use Siri or VTT to record where I parked, I often end up with his name instead.

BonitaPersona• 11 months ago

Thinking of a possible example of that in spanish, I ended up with "Juan Fortín", 114.

andai• 11 months ago

I don't have a contact called University but it always capitalizes it.

It probably appears that way most frequently in the text the predictive model was trained on.

finaard• 11 months ago

I'm currently also considering if I should go to that, or not.

Most of my life I've been using phones with keys - the Treo/Centro series with PalmOS, then (due to working there) the Nokia N900, N9 and Jolla devices. The best ever on screen keyboard I've encountered was on the N9, followed by Jolla (unfortunately, we never implemented swype there). A had a regular Android phone for a while after that, but pretty much all Android on screen keyboards are just horrible - so I went from actively doing stuff on my phone to just reading stuff, and using it as notifier for getting my computer.

Things changed when some companies did end up doing new phones with keyboards: I had the Planet computers Gemini, followed by the Cosmo. Both had great keyboards, but a lot of other issues. Next were Unihertz Titan and Titan slim (which I'm still using) - both also nice devices, but starting to age, not really getting updates anymore, and putting something else on there is problematic due to Unihertz not releasing kernel sources.

The way I'm using my phones also changed again - I fully stopped using banking apps on the phone. The modern way is to combine an authenticator into the banking app, and treat the banking app as having built in two factor auth, which is just stupid. I can use a separate token with all of my banks - but using the smartphone app would forcefully sign me up to using them as authenticator, so I can't use them anymore.

A lot of other applications also are pretty much useless nowadays - most are just wrapped web pages anyway, and even for the ones which are not: Nothing has long living auth tokens anymore (which used to be one of the main selling points ) - and if I have to log in to not regularly used applications every time I use them it's easier and more convenient to just use the corresponding website on the computer anyway.

So we're back to just wanting a phone I can read on, and that sends me notifications - and the keyboard should allow me to even respond without taking out my computer. The main issue with the device is that I don't need Android for doing that - and with the ongoing enshitification of Android I'm not really sure anymore if it's worth the trouble of getting another device, or if I should just go towards "when I'm not on my computer I'm offline" again.

colingauvin4• 11 months ago

I picked up one of these and have been having a number of issues, but have somehow managed to stick with it and my life is much improved as a result. Device usage has been much, much more intentional. I wouldn't say I'm cured of my scrolling addiction, but the time I spend scrolling has been relegated to just the latest hours of the night, and even then, significantly less.

The trick about this phone is that because it is full fat Android, everything is possible. But because it is low refresh rate black and white screen with a physical keyboard, everything is also a pain in the ass. Rather than hear a chat message notification and immediately get the urge to pull out my phone and engage, I actually now get slightly annoyed because typing out a proper response with proper grammar is going to be a pain in the ass.

The company is pretty lousy and doesn't communicate well. They have missed every single deadline they've ever set for themselves. The software is glitchy but usable (I have all the same issues mentioned in the article with the autocorrect, refresh settings, fingerprint, etc). All those things are fixable and hopefully do.

The phone itself is very weak hardware and the screen protector and case still haven't shipped. I had my phone in my back pocket and it did not survive that, I got two cracks along the edge and a slight bend. Still works though, but I have switched it to my front pocket.

Android Auto works great in both my vehicles, so maps/navigation are not an issue. Bitwarden works. Duo auth works. Banking apps work. Roon works. Podcasts work. Things that I need, that other dumb phones can't provide.

But the critical thing is, I am trying to avoid using the phone because it is just a pain in the ass to do things on. For this, honestly, I'd pay 10x the list price because it has given me so much of my life back. I actually had a mini crisis when I realized I was bored, with nothing to do in the evenings after work, because I had so much time back. (Don't worry, channeling that time into productive hobbies now).

I would highly highly highly recommend this if you want to spend less time on your phone but need certain functions a smartphone provides.

grim_io• 11 months ago

This self-sabotage of self-sabotage is not something I can do.

My brain has too much agency for its own good. It would not let itself be constrained in its pursuit of scrolling bliss.

smusamashah• 11 months ago

Can you browse HN on it? If you do, would you do it with a client or with plain old browser?

colingauvin4• 11 months ago

It's doable in the web browser. Clicking small links is annoying and makes it much more self limiting after a number of mis-clicks.

jama2112• 11 months ago

We live in a strange world when people are intentionally making their devices worse to use to try and discourage themselves from using them

colingauvin4• 11 months ago

It started when I had my first kid and he wouldn't sleep and I would lay there awake all night just thinking of all the stressors in my life. I'd use the phone to distract myself. Then that gradually just turned into a crutch for all stress. That was pretty hard to stop.

I've tried a number of different things but nothing stuck. I've had this phone for a few months now and it has really done the trick.

LeifCarrotson• 11 months ago

It's like candy - so tasty that you can't stop eating it until you're diabetic and obese. People will absolutely structure their diets to make them "worse" (less tasty) because they want, at a higher level than their taste buds want sugar, to stay healthy.

A trillion dollar industry exists to profit off of gluing eyeballs to screens. Making the device other than what this industry designed it to be is not self-sabotage, it's self-interested!

Read "Supernormal Stimuli" by Barrett for some other examples of this phenomenon.

matthewfcarlson• 11 months ago

Individuals are going up against corporations spending millions if not billions on R&D to figure out how to make their products “stickier” or habit forming. Can you blame people for pursuing more aggressive approaches to try and reset their habits?

numpad0• 11 months ago

Is this common behavior with other addictive substances? e.g. mixing bitterants trying to weaken own addiction?

wait a minute, from behavioral science perspectives, does it work as intended, or does it work against the aim?

ikr678• 11 months ago

Adding/reducing friction is a reliable way to change behaviour, and the companies know this too.

I dont save my card details to prefill, I don't use nfc payments and I keep a low balance in the transaction account my debit card, in order to be more intentional about my spending.

metaphor• 11 months ago

The company is pretty lousy and doesn't communicate well. They have missed every single deadline they've ever set for themselves.

THIS...BUYER BEWARE!

Raise your hand if you're one of the first thousand Indiegogo campaign backers and still haven't received your order.

billy99k• 11 months ago

I have bought multiple ereaders over the years and i always go back to my phone. The main reason is convenience. I always have my phone with me and usually don't have room or forget the ereader.

rsanek• 11 months ago

After I bricked my pro max in the sauna last month, I bought a used 13 mini to test out how using a much smaller phone would be. Learnings after a ~month so far is that, it's not much less distracting and the tiny battery + poor perf are real limitations when travelling. Going to buy the new pro max when it comes out next month.

4ggr0• 11 months ago

reading the comments and link on my minimal phone :D hope they soon fix the bugs and finally ship the accessories, love the phone so far. my main device for two months now.

netfortius• 11 months ago

For me it's not an either-or scenario. I use my Kindle when I'm bed, my Calibre e-reader (or preview, if pdf) on my MBP, and Moonreader+ on my Android phone. I'd say the ratio of usage goes like 10-15% for the Kindle, 25-35% MBP, and the majority of time Moonreader. I wish I could find a way to sync book status and highlights across the three platforms, but...

johnjeremy• 11 months ago

Koreader my friend

TiredOfLife• 11 months ago

I have tried Koreader multiple times. They somehow have made CoolReader that was pleasant to use on an eink device 16 years ago, painful to use on a modern much faster device.

CommenterPerson• 11 months ago

Sure the device may have some rough edges. But any sand thrown into the addiction/ enshttification engine is great.

layer8• 11 months ago

It doesn’t seem to have page flip buttons, which is a pity.

locusofself• 11 months ago

I could probably live without iMessage (though I wouldn't love it), but the one thing I really cannot live without is a great camera. My child is still young, my wife and I are still enjoying ourselves (when we have time), and I really do cherish the photos. I know I could get a separate camera, but it's not the as being able to snap photos spontaneously.

What I really want is a super reliable way to block social media from my iPhone, only allowing a short window per day.

I use "Freedom", but it doesn't reliably block things, and I end up cheating.

CharlesW2• 11 months ago

Screen Time can work well for this. Block both apps and websites (the "Social" category makes this straightforward), then ask your gatekeeper tp "Lock Screen Time Settings" on your phone and keep the PIN to themselves.

const_cast• 11 months ago

I "solved" this by using a black and white screen always and just checking social media on a web browser on my computer whenever I feel like it - usually once a month or so. Its great because I can turn off the black and white for pictures.

This isn't a real solution because you still have to take deliverate action and you're still just trusting your own behaviors. But, it's a great middle ground.

For social media - you don't actually need the apps. Like, at all. They work just fine in a browser and they can't send you notifications that way. So just delete them altogether.

WXLCKNO• 11 months ago

I now feel weird posting Nice Photos to social media. Who are those for, really?

I have a private Instagram account with ~100 followers of people I actually know.

And I still agree with this although I'm trying hard not to. I'm just trying not to be cynical.

But I hate this feeling of my life experiences seeming like they require external validation.

Am I doing things just so that others know I did them? Is it just a curated feed I can look back on by myself? Social media feels like it steals our lives away from us.

octoberfranklin2• 11 months ago

Oh my god a physical keyboard phone in 2025, I just got up and danced around the room.

Sanity is returning to our world.

There is hope. WAGMI.

octoberfranklin2• 11 months ago

Can you get root on this thing?

Can I recompile all (or at least most, modulo firmware blobs) of the software running on it?

Obviously I'm not expecting Pixel/GrapheneOS levels of openness. But I'm hoping it's not Samsung-level icky.

owenversteeg2• 11 months ago

The device in the article is $400 (and obviously requires migrating to a new phone.) Don't get me wrong, it does seem like a decent solution - but for those looking for a lower friction (or lower cost) way to use your phone less, this is my system, which works very well: 1) lock away your phone in a separate box or room away from where you are, 2) make the phone as unappealing as possible (grayscale, disable animations, don't upgrade models, fill up storage so it's very slow), 3) increase friction on the device itself; uninstall any interesting apps and use "one sec" to block stuff in the browser.

With these interventions I went from using my phone for hours a day to using it (most days) only when necessary, and some days not at all. Feels very liberating!

As far as reading goes, I switched back to physical books.

floundy2• 11 months ago

Since these E-Ink phones all suck in specific ways or have uncertain compatibility with US cell carriers I carry 2 devices, my Android smartphone (which I've dumbed down in a similar way to you) and a Boox Palma 2 (which I use for reading articles and books).

I pretty much use my Android in grayscale only for texting/2FA, phone calls, and occasionally email. I entirely disabled the web browser. If a restaurant has QR code menus I don't care anymore, I'll just leave. If I'm "bored" I'll pull out my Palma and get some reading in.

owenversteeg2• 11 months ago

That's a nice combo. Disabling the web browser is a good idea, thanks :)

utf_8x• 11 months ago

Can anyone with one of these confirm if Android Auto works with it?

amilios• 11 months ago

Personally I've downgraded my phone intentionally, from an iPhone 14 Pro to an iPhone SE 2020 (the previous iPhone I had). It's slow, it overheats, the battery is short. But that's what I want -- the friction makes me really consider every use of the phone, and the occasional slowdowns frustrate me just enough to reconsider taking it out of my pocket for everything. It kind of "works" for me. Might get a battery pack though hahah

kristianp• 11 months ago

I like the novelty of a phone with a real keyboard. And also the joy of having real buttons to press when wanting to type something in. I made 3 errors in typing up to this point, and I had to go slowly to get things input that well. I miss keys all the time, despite each successive phone being bigger than the last.

StevenNunez• 11 months ago

I've been using a BigMe HiBreak pro and it's pretty good! I have had issues with the usb port but after removing some cruft I really like it. Easy on the eyes, full android and I can watch videos in a pinch.

I find it makes it easier to do something else with my free time.

My phone is an ereader now

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