Firmware update bricks HP printers, makes them unable to use HP cartridges

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/firmware-update-bricks-hp-printers-makes-them-unable-to-use-hp-cartridges/

by speckx • 1 year ago

269 245 1 year ago

hyperman1• 1 year ago

Wat's your update strategy today, HN? Main possibilities seem to be 1) The faster, the better I am protected. 2) I wait a few days/weeks. The second mouse gets the cheese.

bobmcnamara2• 1 year ago

0) Don't buy from companies that treat me like a criminal.

1) Manufacture's suggested update schedule.

JadeNB• 1 year ago

0) Don't buy from companies that treat me like a criminal.

So don't buy printers, basically? That's sarcasm, but, non-sarcastically, do you know any printer companies that (make decent printers and) have basic respect for their users?

yjftsjthsd-h• 1 year ago

You can take different approaches on different things. A browser is probably the most exposed piece of software in your system, so maybe be aggressive with updates on that, but a printer is unlikely to be exposed to untrusted inputs so I would question whether there's any point updating it ever unless you have a specific issue you're trying to fix.

tart-lemonade• 1 year ago

The last time I tried updating an HP printer, it locked up and printed half a ream of jibberish before I pulled the plug on it. Now, I just put printers on a firewalled VLAN and call it a day.

dylan6046• 1 year ago

This is pretty much my take on it. Once I get a printer installed and working, that's the last time I look at the software for it. I'm also not a heavy printer, so my printer tends to be unplugged more than it's actually turned on.

My publicly facing servers get patched as soon as I'm aware there are updates available. If it borks anything, I just turn to the previous backup (not that this has ever actually happened).

smodo• 1 year ago

3) Completely disconnect my printer from the web and live with this small discomfort. HP burned me too many times.

wtallis• 1 year ago

IOT devices (including printers) get firewalled to have no access outside my LAN, and I don't let my PCs run the kind of software that would fetch a firmware update and push it to another device without prompting me. The first line of security should always be not connecting it to the Internet unnecessarily. This is especially important when the list of probable attackers starts (and ends) with the manufacturer.

zubiaur• 1 year ago

Absolutely. Rarely do I need a device to have access to the internet. Printers, speakers, sensors, vacuum cleaners, dishwasher. Nothing gets to talk to the outside world.

They are appliances, and if they work they work. Unless something is broken, I leave them alone.

The only exception so far has been the robot lawn mower, that supposedly adapts to weather forecast. But it will be jailed soon, too.

litoE• 1 year ago

Use parental controls at the router to prevent the printer from accessing anything outside our in-house network. If it acts like a child, treat it like one.

officeplant• 1 year ago

Update OS's regularly for everyday machines / Offline machines you don't want changes to affect. Update Phones regularly. Give work software a 6 month-1 year lead before updating because they will break something (Looking at you Autodesk & Bluebeam).

And never buy an HP Printer which should come before any talks of when to update.

runeofdoom2• 1 year ago

3) I use out of date hardware and software as much as possible, being rigorously paranoid to never expose it to anything risky, and keep it locked down as much as possible. (Which means little Internet use... which is arguably a feature of the process.)

If the manufacturer doesn't support the software anymore (or better yet, is out of business) the odds of malicious updates go way down.

doublepg23• 1 year ago

I update somewhat promptly, often using automatic updates and stop buying manufacturers that push bad updates.

pabs34• 1 year ago

1) Switch to an open source alternative that is security supported. 2) Otherwise, never update it and never allow it to be connected to the network.

PaulHoule• 1 year ago

... that's one reason I got an Epson ET-8550

https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Inkjet/EcoTank-Photo-ET-...

Animats2• 1 year ago

I have an EcoTank printer. It keeps telling me it has a firmware update available, but I won't let it update.

washadjeffmad• 1 year ago

There are no cartridges in an EcoTank. Is there something in particular you're afraid of happening?

DecentShoes• 1 year ago

I'm almost at the point where I consider any type of firmware update for anything to be actively hostile and to be avoided if at all possible with the sole exception of patches for specific, significant security bugs.

In 2017, Apple put out a new iPhone, and in the same week, made my 1 year old iPhone unusable on purpose overnight to make me buy a new one.

My S23 Ultra got a software update that removed features and now I can't use YouTube. I can't just not install updates, because it will nag me constantly and leave a permanent notification at all times that I cannot remove.

Sony famously removed OtherOS from existing PS3s.

I'm not sure what the solution is but letting companies destroy their old product so you go buy a new one, whether carelessness or malice is unacceptable.

markus_zhang2• 1 year ago

I almost never do firmware update, even for security reasons. You never know what's in the patch, and your data is already sold left and right anyway. I consider myself fully hacked 10 times, and every social media company knows me better than my wife.

iforgotpassword• 1 year ago

You also never know what's in the original firmware, so why trust it more than the update, security-wise?

brokenmachine9• 1 year ago

In the update notes for my banking app, it listed the changes as "Minor update to keep the app running smoothly".

If it's running smoothly, why does it need an update?

I guess it's like an engine that needs fresh oil.

vladvasiliu2• 1 year ago

In 2017, Apple put out a new iPhone, and in the same week, made my 1 year old iPhone unusable on purpose overnight to make me buy a new one.

I often see people claim something along those lines, but it differs from my experience. In early 2017, I bought a refurbished iPhone 7 which has served me well for 7 years. I've never noticed any sudden deterioration in performance.

SOLAR_FIELDS2• 1 year ago

I think it’s right to call for receipts here. It’s a common refrain that older devices getting updated causes performance to slow to a crawl but exceedingly rare that someone is actually able to demonstrate with data that it was directly tied to an update. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen, but I treat any claim like that with a good deal of skepticism without anything other than anecdata

whywhywhywhy• 1 year ago

People suspected it for years but yeah it was eventually found to be true that they were tweaking battery throttling in updates which to the end user materialized as the feeling of the new phone being out and their suddenly slowing down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate

IggleSniggle• 1 year ago

Can someone please tell Apple we are overdue for a nostalgia line? I want an iPhone 3GS form factor so bad. I would even accept the 480x360 resolution. There was no more perfect design than the little "worry stone." I have a 13 mini and I think it just wasn't small enough to sell better. You still can't quite one-hand operate the entire screen comfortably.

davesmylie• 1 year ago

I have stopped doing them altogether unless there is a known issue that I am trying to resolve.

I have some "smart" devices like TVs, printers etc that require local area network access - where ever possible/practical they are blocked from exiting the network at the router level.

Even software updates for non critical products are frustrating. I have stopped using some locally installed products (specifically, Evernote), because of it's forced, intrusive upgrade settings. I just want to open the app and quickly read a note, not have to muck around updating (or dismissing the update prompt, what seems like every single time.

LadyCailin• 1 year ago

Ah, agile workflows, where features have to be completed and fully rolled out within a two week period.

dylan6046• 1 year ago

The motherboard that I bought for my Hackintosh allowed for a thunderbolt port, and worked great with the OS. The motherboard issued a firmware that then removed the functionality of that thunderbolt port. The Hackintosh was pretty much useless at that point, as the external gear I used connected via thunderbolt

brokenmachine9• 1 year ago

I assume that was a BIOS update since you said the motherboard issued a firmware.

Couldn't you downgrade the motherboard BIOS?

nop_slide• 1 year ago

I'm almost at the point where I consider any type of firmware update for anything to be actively hostile and to be avoided if at all possible with the sole exception of patches for specific, significant security bugs.

I recently bricked my Eufy Baby monitor trying to upgrade the firmware.

We got an additional add on camera and it wouldn't connect to the new camera. So I navigated their really piss poor documentation on upgrading the firmware but ended up bricking the whole thing.

SOLAR_FIELDS2• 1 year ago

The unofficial firmware that is maintained by some random person out of a basement in Kansas is infinitely more trustworthy than the vendors firmware itself in iot and simple embedded devices. I run some fork of some custom firmware on an older Nighthawk router in my house and the random person in Kansas updates the thing with security and perf and feature patches monthly. Never one issue upgrading them

JohnFen3• 1 year ago

I'm almost at the point where I consider any type of firmware update for anything to be actively hostile and to be avoided if at all possible

I reached that point a number of years ago. I've more recently reached the point where I feel the same about software updates generally, not just firmware ones.

A software update all too often means that the main thing you bought the software for is nerfed or removed.

genewitch10• 1 year ago

I have archival computers that I maintain specifically for this. I can run nearly every AI/ML software released since 2018, on the operating system it was designed for, with the correct libraries, and drivers. No docker. All on the metal.

I do use venv, but that's so I don't pollute the system with libraries.

I disallow internet access, too. That is, I don't put a gateway or DNS server in, but the LAN works.

mrmuagi• 1 year ago

In 2017, Apple put out a new iPhone, and in the same week, made my 1 year old iPhone unusable on purpose overnight to make me buy a new one.

How was it made unusable?

My S23 Ultra got a software update that removed features and now I can't use YouTube. I can't just not install updates, because it will nag me constantly and leave a permanent notification at all times that I cannot remove.

What features did it remove?

happyopossum• 1 year ago

In 2017, Apple put out a new iPhone, and in the same week, made my 1 year old iPhone unusable on purpose overnight to make me buy a new one.

Uhh, citation please? I had an iPhone 7 working flawlessly here until I decided to replace it last year.

The claim that a company “purposely” made your year old phone useless is beyond hyperbolic without at least a modicum of effort in supporting the claim.

brokenmachine9• 1 year ago

Apple paid out $500M in a class action about exactly this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67911517

Denied any wrongdoing but still paid $500M... hmmm

the__alchemist• 1 year ago

I am starting to wonder if critical security update has been co-opted to be using the same logic as think of the children. Who wouldn't support that... then it's used for subtly malicious purposes.

b3lvedere2• 1 year ago

My opinion is that someone who is making the deciscion to reduce the features of the next firmware update of things, is putting security as their top priority as ordered, but have no good idea on how to actually secure some features. So they decide to remove the feature altogether. Axes are cheaper than high fine grade operational instruments.

But since the programmers are using resources anyway, why not visit all other departments of the company if they want features modified. Maybe some ideas can generate more money for the company eh?

iszomer• 1 year ago

And there would be no way for an average consumer to test the security updates themselves and if there are, no way to confirm the validity of its assessment (SnoopSnitch).

brokenmachine9• 1 year ago

The consumer should ALWAYS be able to return the product to the exact condition at the time of purchase.

My Samsung had a nice feature for the alarms where you could say, "snooze" and it would hear you, instead of having to find the microscopic button. I have a big screen phone, WHY DO THEY MAKE IT SO SMALL?

Of course they took that feature away with an "update" that provided nothing else useful.

genewitch10• 1 year ago

Some bigwig at Samsung had a mischievous kid that made them miss meetings by drive by "Snooze"?

My kid used to shut my alarm off and then wonder why I was sleeping till 2.

alpaca1285• 1 year ago

I agree about the microscopic buttons, some buttons on my 13 inch iPad are literally 2mm wide (I measured). I usually have no issues with things like that but man, they really are trying hard to make it difficult.

But what annoys me more is that they put in so many gestures and features that sometimes it takes me more than 10 tries just to save an image in the browser because it constantly wants to do some text recognition instead. It’s almost like context menus were useful.

jcgrillo2• 1 year ago

If they have to update it after they shipped it, that means they shipped it before it was done. I don't get why we all put up with that. And before you say "but what about the complexity?!?" I'll respond with "why do you think you need that?"

I'd pay so much more for simple tools I can buy once and never have to buy another again.

baby_souffle• 1 year ago

Are you excluding security specific fixes in that policy?

alpaca1285• 1 year ago

Something can be shipped 100% complete and still gain new features afterwards. The Airpods Pro 2 recently got hearing aid functionality, that doesn’t mean they were incomplete at launch.

That said I’d agree in most situations, especially video games.

LeoPanthera• 1 year ago

made my 1 year old iPhone unusable on purpose overnight to make me buy a new one

This claim is obviously not true. The evidence required to believe it would be extraordinary. Do you have it?

behnamoh4• 1 year ago

it is true, multiple sources reported that.

NoPicklez• 1 year ago

Well the whole Apple slowing older device debate has been beaten to death and Apple claims it was a safety net for older devices of which their batteries would be unable to provide enough stable power. Therefore they had to slow the device down to allow to battery to keep up with the device and increase the longevity of the device even if it meant the device was being power managed under particular workloads.

Whilst we can have our opinions of the legitimacy of this, I am inclined to agree with it. There have been many people on the other side of the coin who have claimed their device instability was fixed after these updates.

m463• 1 year ago

I agree.

For my home machines, I have a jail lan where nothing can get out. If there's a need, I have a proxy and can let specific things out to specific places.

After setting that up, my quality of life became SO much better.

It's too bad the status quo for tech is basically "everything gets out". I think people should be able to do this easily. Maybe AI can coach "normal" people through this kind of thing.

smolder• 1 year ago

This hostility towards ownership goes way beyond computers. There has been a decades long effort to exclude people from 'productive' society if they don't consent to being controllable and surveilled.

gjvc• 1 year ago

"I'm almost at the point where I consider any type of firmware update for anything to be actively hostile and to be avoided if at all possible ..."

Never attribute to malice that which may be adequately explained by incompetence.

alpaca1285• 1 year ago

Never attribute to incompetence what may be adequately explained by market incentives that reward malice.

Ballas• 1 year ago

Updating firmware is like buying new underwear - I do it only when the old ones stop working (or have visible holes).

hilbert423• 1 year ago

"I'm almost at the point where I consider any type of firmware update for anything to be actively hostile and to be avoided if at all possible with the sole exception of patches for specific, significant security bugs."

In recent years not one of my printers has been on the net, whether it's a printer on a standalone PC or one on a network.

The same applies to printer utilities. With driver bugs I'll download an updated driver, which these days is often in the form of an executable, and I'll block internet access before running it.

I take the view that printer updates include user-unfriendly afterthoughts that manufacturers have since dreamt up to further line their pockets at our expense. I always assume that manufacturers will slipstream crud and spyware into driver updates.

As for HP, I'd never buy another HP product let alone a HP printer, the last printer I bought would have been around 2005.

Why do people still buy HP printers when it's so widely known that to do so is to buy a 'lemon'—nothing but a pile of trouble?

roywashere• 1 year ago

I think it depends on the brand of printers you buy. I bought a Brother and had trouble getting AirPrint to work. Only to find out after a year that there was an update of the firmware I had not installed, which had been available all along, that fixed the AirPrint issue immediately.

Please just stop buying HP and Canon printers!

h4ck_th3_pl4n3t• 1 year ago

Well, then only buy stuff where you control the software.

Check LineageOS build support before you buy a phone.

Check Linux distro support before you buy a laptop.

Check postmarketOS support before you throw things away.

There is options, and they work fairly well. It's just that you have to compromise on convenience for it. And convenience is the most monetary exploited weakness in human behaviors.

toyg• 1 year ago

convenience is the most monetary exploited weakness in human behaviors.

And there is generally nothing scandalous about it: I pay someone to mown the lawn when I cannot be bothered to do it myself.

The problem is that one side of the deal is being exploitative on other levels. One day the gardener shows up and cuts your phone line, because now you can only use the phone company he likes; then every 10 minutes he tells you that he also does home renovations; one day he digs a trench so that the garden can be square, since he has decided he only works with square gardens; then he starts applying a surcharge if the grass grows too quickly. And so on and so forth. You could use another gardener, but there are only two of them in town and they both pull the same stunts.

edelhans• 1 year ago

Its not always that easy. I specifically bought a Zenfone 9 due to its small size and unlockable bootloader. Guess what - Asus removed the bootloader unlock tool after I purchased the device. Can't trust anyone these days

bakugo• 1 year ago

There is options, and they work fairly well.

Are you sure? The amount of Android devices being released with support for bootloader unlocking is shrinking every year, and even if you find a phone you like that supports it, good luck getting your bank's app to run on it after doing it.

Companies like Google and Apple are doing everything they can to force people to use locked down devices they don't control, and PCs are slowly moving in that direction as well.

cbanek• 1 year ago

This is why I never let my "smart" TVs contact the internet anymore.

nosioptar3• 1 year ago

I had a sumsung phone that did that. I specifically bought it because it allowed unlocking the bootloader. It auto updated in the middle of the night, removing the ability to unlock the bootloader.

I had a TCL phone that started bootlooping at 3AM after an automatic update. TCL wanted the cost of the phone to repair it.

I can't think of a realistic solution. The government could solve it, if they worked for people rather than rich fuckers. There's no way they'd regulate their donors to improve something for their constituency.

chii2• 1 year ago

It auto updated in the middle of the night

lesson learnt - don't set anything to autoupdate. This includes browsers, OS, applications, phones or hardware.

Update _after_ you investigated the update. Ideally, check that the update didn't cause problems by googling it, perhaps after a few months or even a year or two. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

ChrisRR• 1 year ago

In 2017, Apple put out a new iPhone, and in the same week, made my 1 year old iPhone unusable on purpose overnight to make me buy a new one.

I don't follow iphone news. What happened to make it unusable?

nonrandomstring• 1 year ago

Malicious updates and vendor malware are super hot topics now. Out and out vandalism of private property obviously breaches every flavour of "computer misuse" law.

There probably hasn't been a massive class-action against companies like HP because not enough users feel they have redress, or they believe that they "agreed" to malicious acts of vandalism. I doubt HP would find any contractual safety to hide behind here.

But the harm I see being done is bigger and more nebulous. It is a massive harm against security in general, and therefore against the public and nation.

As you say yourself, it's only sensible to see "updates" as very probably hostile. I would agree. There is debate in security circles about whether one should apply updates at all.

Yet, updates are a necessary component of modern security. Forcing malicious updates on users is therefore a "crime against the fabric of society" and I'd love to see a government make an example of HP, Microsoft, or anyone else pushing malicious "updates".

neilv2• 1 year ago

Most recent discussion on printer DRM firmware update jerkiness:

Brother accused of locking down third-party printer ink cartridges (tomshardware.com) 536 points by m463 5 days ago | 336 comments | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43261933

rpcope12• 1 year ago

I see Brother is going with the Lexmark strategy. Maybe they'll wake up before they end up in as bad if shape as Lexmark has wound up in.

ajnin2• 1 year ago

To give a voice to both sides, Brother denies it made any of the alleged firmware changes. Also Louis Rossman's source for his claims is a Reddit post from 2022. Source : https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/brother-denies-using...

neilv2• 1 year ago

I wonder whether HP will get its comeuppance, for years of jerkiness, when an LLM is involved in most printer purchasing decisions, and that LLM will have been trained on Reddit, HN, etc.

Or will consumer "AI" services offer "integrated placement" for brands, which also has the effect of neutering valid criticism of the brand?

g-mork• 1 year ago

the annual LLM subscription came free with the printer

zoeysmithe• 1 year ago

Probably never. The home printer market I imagine isn't anything anyone new wants to risk money in, and if they did, they'd just end up copying much what HP is doing anyway.

Also I doubt anyone is giving some LLM their credit card and all printer brands have bad reputations online. People post when motivated and they're motivated to complain, not praise.

In the meantime, I can still buy a Brother brand printer that seems to not have all the HP issues, or less so.

dylan6046• 1 year ago

If someone created and sold a printer that did not care about the ink that was used, the people of the interwebs would go crazy in the forums when the shitty ink they used did not work correctly in the printer.

This is not a defense for DRM'd cartridges, but just an honest look at how people will behave. The support for the company with a open ink policy would be astronomical for the complaints they will receive. Sometimes, people/users are the problem but there's no way to tell that to the customer without you being the dick. "the customer is always right" is such a bullshit fallacy that makes operating a business near impossible.

spicybright• 1 year ago

I feel like the overlap of people savvy enough to want re-fillable carts and people not understanding what "only fill with high quality ink" means so they jump to blame the company is pretty small.

cutemonster• 1 year ago

If someone created and sold a printer that did not care about the ink that was used

Why would anyone do that. Sounds like a strawman.

All printers I've seen specify precisely what ink they need. And then you look up which 3rd party inks are compatible, so the printer gets what it want.

pessimizer• 1 year ago

the people of the interwebs would go crazy in the forums when the shitty ink they used did not work correctly in the printer.

They definitely wouldn't, because this is a case of corruption being taken to the extreme. Official ink costs more than printers. If I bought awful bootleg ink three times and the last fake cartridge melted the printer into a smoldering pile of plastic, I could buy another printer and still break even.

tredre32• 1 year ago

If someone created and sold a printer that did not care about the ink that was used, the people of the interwebs would go crazy in the forums when the shitty ink they used did not work correctly in the printer.

There's no need for hypotheticals. Such printers do exist. People on the Internet tend to praise them (see this very thread). I'm sure people have had bad ink experiences, and if I search for it I will find them. But I highly doubt they'd blame the printer or the concept...

Telemakhos• 1 year ago

I'm currently using a mysterious Chinese vendor's ink in my office DeskJet, and it's working better and longer than any HP cartridges ever did.

wkat4242• 1 year ago

Haha then brother will do great. Though they have been starting the scam also with their colour lasers.

mrweasel2• 1 year ago

We've been wondering why people keep buying HP printers for the past 10 years. The fact that they aren't bankrupt at this point is beyond me.

makeitdouble• 1 year ago

HP is the worse but most printer makers have or will come to the same conclusion sooner or later.

Successful consumer electronic brands right now make money with either simple or "premium" looking but wallgardened products you need to throw money at at every turn. And HPs are available everywhere and will mostly work if you don't mind the running stream of money.

ryao4• 1 year ago

I know it is not what you meant, but what you wrote becomes funnier if one reads it as saying “the fact that [buyers of HP printers] aren’t bankrupt at this point is beyond me”.

LeifCarrotson• 1 year ago

People have to keep buying new HP printers because their old ones keep breaking. Consumers are not rational or well-informed.

In contrast, my Brother HL-5340D printer from 2008 is still working fine to this day.

There have been been zero required firmware updates that could have, as HP said in their release notes, "improved firmware update and cartridge rejection experiences." It doesn't reject cartridges, it still takes the same TN-620 toner replacements made by Brother or a hundred other vendors. I'm unconcerned about security because the only connections are a USB type B 2.0 input that presents a PCL/CUPS compatible driver... and also a DB-25/Centronics printer port, of course, as a printer should have.

I gave Brother like $250 of my limited cash as a sophomore engineering student in college, and a nominal $50 for a remanufactured toner cartridge every 3000 pages (several years) and then haven't bought a replacement printer for home since then. I don't know if I've ever replaced the drum, but I should probably do that - it's old enough to vote and deserves to be freshened up. I suppose I have bought a several of their printers for work and I've recommended Brother lasers to a bunch of family members for who I'm 'the tech guy', so that's some revenue in their direction, but probably less profit than if I'd bought a new HP inkjet and a couple HP cartridges every 2 years.

Also consider that not only have I spent less money on printers than an HP buyer, I've encouraged far less inventory turnover for the vendors: Why would HP/Staples/Wal Mart/wherever normal people buy printers devote sales attention and shelf space to keeping a Brother printer in stock when a 36yo adult within driving distance only needs to buy one such printer in their lifetime, when they can turn over a pallet of disposable inkjets on a weekly basis?

HP's many failures keep them from going bankrupt, not the other way around. This does not mean that their business practices should be imitated.

bigtimesink4• 1 year ago

It doesn't take very much effort to look at ink costs when buying a printer, so this is on consumers. It might even be the rational choice for low-income consumers since it's cheaper in the long run than buying a more expensive printer with a 25% APR credit card.

runeofdoom2• 1 year ago

Seems like the next logical step, really.

criddell• 1 year ago

Has the meaning of bricks changed? It doesn't sound like these printers are permanently broken.

SAI_Peregrinus• 1 year ago

Yes, years ago. People haven't used it solely to mean permanently broken for a long time, it now also means "temporarily inoperable" or "broken beyond the skill of one particular user to fix it". Much like how "literally" now gets used to mean "figuratively" the use of hyperbole has turned "bricked" into meaning "not actually bricked".

Gigachad• 1 year ago

Nothing is permanently broken though. At some point you can start reflashing chips and replacing internal components. Bricked has always meant the device is inoperable and beyond easy repair.

crazygringo4• 1 year ago

On social media, maybe.

I would expect HN to maintain the distinction where "brick" means it won't work at all due to a software malfunction, and can't be restored to a working state via a hard reset button or software update via WiFi/USB.

Its technical meaning to engineers hasn't changed, and HN is a technical site full of engineers.

Dylan1680711• 1 year ago

Much like how "literally" now gets used to mean "figuratively"

It is never used that way. Please do not say that. It is an intensifier.

dragonwriter• 1 year ago

Much like how "literally" now gets used to mean "figuratively"

It is not used to mean “figuratively”, it is figuratively as an intensifier for other figurative descriptions. If it was meant to mean “figuratively”, then it would be used in senses which the audience would not otherwise understand as figurative and be the thing which told them that the other term used was figurative; that is very much not the case.

buescher• 1 year ago

Ironically, the shift in usage is happening at the same time that embedded security is getting good enough that it's possible to brick something hard enough that you can't reflash it without replacing chips, if you lose keys or they get corrupted.

yborg• 1 year ago

I don't see how this characterization is wrong as a shorthand. Until HP comes up with an update, these printers don't print. If they never do, then it is literally true. There was a home router manufacturer that issued a firmware update that permanently disabled their product, users had to physically exchange them.

crazygringo4• 1 year ago

It's a technical distinction.

HP broke the printers. It didn't brick them.

If something is bricked, it's permanent for a consumer at home. It can't be fixed with another software update, because the bricking prevents updates.

This can be fixed with a future update. Therefore it's not bricked. That's the definition of bricked.

They're currently broken (a temporary state). They're not bricked (a permanent state). The two words aren't synonyms.

redox99• 1 year ago

People have been using hard bricked and soft bricked for a while. But this doesn't even seem to be soft bricked.

IshKebab• 1 year ago

Sounds like they might be permanently broken if HP doesn't fix it. I doubt you can downgrade the firmware.

dalemhurley3• 1 year ago

After years of dodgy HP printers and their very expensive inks, I brought an Epson EcoTank. It cost a lot more but it prints are amazing and the Ink lasts forever. It took 2 years to get through the included ink.

ForOldHack• 1 year ago

HP brings a broad new meaning to Dodgy. Shotty and shabby. Its wholly unethical how hey manage their affairs, but now to hear they are disabling their own printers, oh my how unfortunate, and I shall decline the gift of any, and inform potential buyers of their ... unwholesomeness. I was going to limit myself to brothers, but I hear they are now on the 'short term profits over everything.' type of CRM. Customer Relation Managment: Screw you.

genewitch10• 1 year ago

I tell people not to buy HP and to buy a brother, but what did they change? Mine works fine, even with third party cartridges.

Printer ink has always been hilariously overpriced. A gallon of IBM check sorting machine ink was $25. And that's magnetic ink.

Extract as much value from your users as possible I guess. If some subset of users figure out how to at least lube up, first, disable their hardware.

codr7• 1 year ago

Most of this world is firmly on the 'short term profits over everything' bandwagon by now.

ajnin2• 1 year ago

FWIW Brother denies it made any of the customer-hostile firmware updates Louis Rossman recently accused them of, according to this other Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/brother-denies-using...

sedatk• 1 year ago

My local Costco always has Epson EcoTanks on sale, FWIW.

dustbunny• 1 year ago

How often do you print? I feel like if I had a printer, I'd probably only use it a couple of times per year.

knowitnone• 1 year ago

Just print at the local library. 10 cents/page

sebazzz• 1 year ago

I purchased a HP laser printer instead. I don't print that often and it has been complaining since a few packs of paper ago that the black toner is almost empty but it just keeps printing.

yencabulator4• 1 year ago

My decade-old HP laser has complained about very low toner for some 2 years now. Buy spare toner but don't replace until you actually see the print fade.

aitchnyu• 1 year ago

Please remember to print once a fortnight to prevent the tubes from drying (at least in this hot and humid city). Apparently the head/printer cost ratio is at magnetron/microwave levels.

jve2• 1 year ago

You unplug your printer? I never had this issue with HP Smart tank, but I always leave it plugged in so it can dip the ink if needed.

JohnFen3• 1 year ago

This problem is what made me ditch inkjets entirely in favor of laser printers. You don't have to remember to do occasional "maintenance prints" with laser printers.

dalemhurley3• 1 year ago

Gen X / Millennial, we have no issue with not printing that often.

harrall• 1 year ago

I have a higher end dye-based EcoTank (ET-8550) and I absolutely love it. Absolutely sips ink.

I also actually have a Brother color laserjet too (HL-L8360CDW).

Between those two, I get a LOT of projects done. They are both reliable workhorses.

jve2• 1 year ago

Is it hassle-free printing?

I have HP Smart tank budget printer and it sometimes drives me mad that it stops printing, you have to restart it and whatnot.

The colors are not great either.

However the tank lasts few years before it dries out and we do print with it quite a lot. For kids, for school, for coloring - usually I set low quality prints. But the printing is cheap.

But when I change the printer, I want hassle free print experience. And a tank based printer.

dalemhurley3• 1 year ago

The paper tray is very small, like 75 pages which is annoying. Everything else with the EcoTank is great.

paulydavis• 1 year ago

So what if I update the device without asking?

anonymousiam• 1 year ago

HP has always (after the Compaq merger) had unethical people running the company. I stopped buying their printers after LaserJet4. I did however have one of their DDS4 tape drives that I had paid over $1k for, about 25 years ago. I stupidly updated the firmware shortly after the warranty period was over, and then immediately noticed a new loud pinging sound whenever it loaded or ejected the cartridge. It died within a few days of the upgrade, and I always suspected that HP had deliberately killed it. I bought a refurbished unit from them for another big chunk of money, because I was locked into the media platform.

I haven't bought an HP product since.

seoulbigchris2• 1 year ago

I had a LaserJet III that lasted forever, like over ten years. It just wouldn't die.

einr• 1 year ago

I took a LaserJet 4050 (introduced 1997, I think ours might have been made in 1999) out of service (active, networked office use) just a couple of years ago. Not because it stopped working, because it still printed like nobody's business, but just because it was surplus to requirements.

I believe this was just about the last generation of LaserJet that was Actually Good.

skipps• 1 year ago

We should all be using a community-designed open-source printer using environmentally safe ink or toner. I blame us for our laziness. Let HP be HP.

BrenBarn• 1 year ago

sushidev• 1 year ago

I think mine is broke as well. Where to join the class action lawsuit?

atoav• 1 year ago

Let's hope HP didn't donate to your political leadership.

1oooqooq• 1 year ago

can't wait for a smart lawyer realize they can use the millennium digital act to create very profitable class action lawsuits.

"have you or your loved ones been harmed by a firmware, installed on a computer system you own and didn't authorized access to the manufacturer? click the link on the video"

nosioptar3• 1 year ago

It'd be fun to see a prosecutor with the balls to charge a company under the CFAA.

tacker2000• 1 year ago

I stopped buying and recommending HP stuff years ago, back when their driver EXE swelled to 300 MBs and included all sorts of crapware...

b3lvedere2• 1 year ago

Most printers work great using their basic PCL 5 or 6 drivers. When customers ask printer advice it kina depends on the importance and priority, but usually leasing laser MFPs is the most hassle free option for companies since it reduces the hassle immensly.

JohnFen3• 1 year ago

You actually install printer manufacturer drivers? You're a braver person than I.

grishka2• 1 year ago

Relatedly, I remember reading that it's unrealistic to build an open-source 2D printer because of how much research and very specific manufacturing that requires. But, what if someone designs an open-source replacement motherboard for some popular commercially available printer model? How much of the "secret sauce" is in the firmware, if any? How easy would that be to replicate independently?

MSFT_Edging• 1 year ago

I don't know this for sure(conjecture based on other knowledge), but due to security functions mandated in printers(dot fingerprinting, preventing currency recreation, etc), I would assume other components besides ink cartridges are cryptographically paired. I'd love for this to not be the case though.

If this isn't the case, then it would still be a large effort to both design the control software that controls the intricate mechanical parts, as well as providing drivers.

I think it would be totally doable for a single printer or a family of like printers in the scope of an opensource project with enough motivated contributors, but 2D printers are some of the least sexy pieces of technology out there so the allure would be missing.

I for one love 2D printers. Anything that brings the digital world into our plane, so maybe I should look into this.....

yencabulator4• 1 year ago

Last I looked, you can fully avoid the security stuff by being monochrome instead of color, so that's an easy way out.

There's also no public mention of the logic being mandatory to implement -- literally, find me a law that requires it -- so you can probably start doing business without it just fine, and in fact the mechanism is patented so you can't just implement it on your own! At some point, some anti-forging governmental department or business lobby will contact you, and that likely won't happen until after you've already succeeded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

jmptable• 1 year ago

I think it's unrealistic to build a cost-competitive open-source 2D printer. But it's relatively easy to just build your own printer. The parts that have the most R&D tied up in them (and so are unlikely to be replicated from scratch easily) are the inkjet heads and the ink's composition. If you can get those off the shelf then you can easily DIY everything else. There is a large existing industrial market for inkjet heads and ink. Many industrial inkjet heads are very easy to drive and have freely available data sheets. But they cost >$500 to a few $1k each and you probably want 4 for CMYK. I just built a custom printer in a few weeks for an art project with some of these (specifically, one called the Xaar128) driven by an RP2040. The experience definitely gave me a sense of awe and resigned respect for my humble desktop printer.

grishka2• 1 year ago

That's why I'm talking about a replacement motherboard for an existing consumer-grade printer (though not necessarily an inkjet one, I don't get it why people keep buying inkjet printers when they don't intend to print photos). Custom PCBs are very easy and cheap to get manufactured. All the maliciousness of these printers is in the firmware, and replacing the motherboard with an open-source one feels like the easiest way to get rid of that. The other possibility would be to write a custom firmware for the stock motherboard, but I'd imagine that printers these days would have some form of secure boot.

phkahler• 1 year ago

For those who don't want to apply firmware updates like this, you might want to use Linux. No printer company is going to work with your distro to automatically install their firmware updates. If your printer works today it's going to work tomorrow.

aendruk• 1 year ago

The general infrastructure for this is already in place and widely used:

https://fwupd.org/lvfs/vendors/

HP already uses this for firmware updates to keyboards and mice. Of course distros typically acquire consent before applying them.

pabs34• 1 year ago

What do the updates for keyboards and mice do?!

fcpk• 1 year ago

My old inkjet recently gave me so much trouble with dried up expensive cartridges that when a super good HP offer came late at night from my next day delivery online shop for a newer generation laser at a ridiculously low price and I jumped on it.

I instantly regretted after printing 100 pages and discovered the evil move: they deliver the laser printer with "introductory" toners that print 1/2 of the normal toner, and 1/4th of the big capacity. A quick google search revealed that while I got the printer with a nice rebate for 140USD... the toners will cost 280USD for a whole set(1500 pages version), and 480USD for the XL(3000 pages) version which is quite insane.

It's sad because the quality of print of this laser outperforms most I've used in the past(the color printing is fabulous), and the software seems to run really smoothly on it. It prints fast and well, it just happens to have an extremely customer hostile company behind it.

Thankfully apparently there is now a technique to extract chips from your existing toners in order to transfer them to a new set of generic toners... and one can only hope that the "terrajet" chips will soon be RE'ed by someone so we can get normal generics.

For reference, the printer is a LaserJet Pro 3302FDW, that uses 219/219X terrajet toners.

mass_and_energy• 1 year ago

Is there a strong reason people still support HP's printers after so many horror stories?

Firmware update bricks HP printers, makes them unable to use HP cartridges

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