Tesla Sales Are Tanking in Europe

https://insideevs.com/news/745119/tesla-sales-europe-2024/

by belter • 2 years ago

124 216 2 years ago

insideevs.com

darthrupert• 2 years ago

https://fortune.com/2025/01/13/tesla-beats-audi-global-car-s...

ddalex4• 2 years ago

"beats" in the sense that it dropped less, not that it grew more.

Also this article is about EU, not Global

sofixa• 2 years ago

Audi is a single, premium, brand of one of the biggest automotive groups out there. It seems odd to single them out in particular and position Tesla outselling them, how is it relevant for anything? I bet they're outselling Dacia too, so what?

petre2• 2 years ago

The A4 is priced on parity with model 3, the Q5 on parity with model Y, so I guess that might be a hint. Why buy a dirty diesel when you can buy a Tesla for tfe same amount?

croes• 2 years ago

Beating a struggling manufacturer is useless.

Investors want sold-more numbers not sold-more-than numbers.

vman81• 2 years ago

Just dropping a link like that about a car manufacturer doing even worse without any argument attached just comes across as coping or soviet style whataboutism. They just edged out Honda - a company with 4% of their market cap. Not really a slam dunk.

rsynnott3• 2 years ago

Also, Audi isn't even _really_ a car manufacturer; it's one of VW's 11 or so brands.

Bengalilol3• 2 years ago

FYI

Volkswagen PE ratio 3.47

Tesla PE ratio 117.65

Back in 2000, Cisco had a PE ratio of 196.2 It has now been 25 years and Cisco's stock price is almost back at its 2000 price (current PE ratio is 25.22).

Nowadays, Alphabet (Google) has a PE ratio of 25.72.

The sales of Tesla are not that great given the past 5 years and the investors are paying 117 times the future earnings.

What could go wrong?

airstrike3• 2 years ago

I don't think those are forward P/E multiples, so they really don't mean anything.

rsynnott3• 2 years ago

I mean, outselling one of VW AG's 11 car brands... okay? I'm not sure you can take much information from _that_, one way or another.

niceice• 2 years ago

EV sales are down in Europe generally.

"Registrations of battery-electric cars declined by 9.5% to 130,757 units in November 2024. This drop was primarily driven by a significant decrease in registrations in Germany (-21.8%) and France (-24.4%)."

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations...

twilo• 2 years ago

Car sales in Europe are tanking generally

jansan2• 2 years ago

I Germany car registrations were 1% down in 2024 compared to 2023. Tesla sold 41 percent fewer cars in Germany in 2024 compared to 2023.

Official data: https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzula...

rcarmo2• 2 years ago

Yeah, people are spending more guardedly (and have been since Ukraine started)

tedivm• 2 years ago

For comparison electric cars declined by 9.5% but Tesla declined by 40.9% at that same time. This is more than Tesla just following the general market trend.

throwaway57522• 2 years ago

From the article,

The automaker’s losses can be attributed to a number of factors, including the increasingly controversial attitude of its CEO, Elon Musk, and the decrease in government incentives. Some European states have reduced the amount of money offered toward the purchase of a new EV, while others have eliminated the incentives altogether.

That said, Tesla’s significant drop in European registrations has largely left the EV industry unaffected. Considering the sheer volume of electric cars sold by Tesla, EV registrations as a whole only went down by 1.4% in the EU, EFTA and UK from January to November and they actually went up 0.9% in November compared to last year. In the EU alone, EV registrations went down 5.4% year-to-date and 9.5% in November.

belter• 2 years ago

This is about the market share of Tesla, a company with a PE of 112. Not about overall EV trends...

"...Year-to-date, Tesla registrations in the EU, EFTA and UK went down 13.7% from 327,635 units in 2023 to 282,692 units this year, while the market share shrunk from 2.8% to 2.4%. In the EU alone, which has 27 member states, Tesla’s market share went down from 2.6% in the first 11 months of last year to 2.2% this year..."

ZeroGravitas4• 2 years ago

It's slightly up in Europe, your figures are for the EU which doesn't include strong EV markets the UK and Norway.

Symbiote2• 2 years ago

If you fiddle with the pie chart graphic to show all Europe (EU + EFTA + UK), and January to November, the share of EVs has reduced very slightly, from 15.4% to 15.1%.

Hybrids have increased from 26.5 to 31.2%, petrol and diesel are down.

(It seems daft to concentrate on one month, or to count the number of cars rather than the share of cars sold.)

misja1115• 2 years ago

Well that's not really surprising. Competition has picked up, also there used to be a lot of government subsidies on EV's, many of those were cut.

kergonath• 2 years ago

Musk is all over the newspapers praising nutjobs and spewing bullshit, as well.

lores3• 2 years ago

The EV market remains roughly the same size, Tesla is independently tanking.

throwaway57522• 2 years ago

This is expected. Elon Musk is being sanctioned for interfering in European elections and in unprecedentedly involved in the administration of an administration that has made annexing, by military force if necessary, the territory on an EU member and fellow NATO ally a centerpiece policy.

There is not a lot of hard data, but https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51298-public-reaction... indicates he is overwhelmingly unpopular and disliked in the UK.

This is not a political comment. YouGov is one of the best pollers (rankings are based on past prediction quality, and easily confirmed with any search engine if you don't believe this). If a CEO is widely unpopular for whatever reasons and deeply identified with the brand, it will cause a problem.

ge962• 2 years ago

I used to be really pro Elon Musk, I love the advancements in space tech but man I'm sad of his behavior. I'm not a "hate rich people" guy, I know they say to think you can become one is a joke or something but yeah. I do believe in trying/possibility too. I'm proof of it in a small way.

nuccy2• 2 years ago

Same for me, I was a big fan of his engineering mindset, but even though he probably still has that, the negative stuff he says and now does completely overwhelms everything.

keybored• 2 years ago

I don’t understand people being fans of billionaire business people who profit from being revered. Specifically billionaires because they have so much funds to spin their own narrative.

I’ve seen some counter-propaganda about his engineering endeavors. I don’t know. Should I consume 50/50 pro/anti and make up my own mind? I don’t think that’s worth my time over a cult of personality. There are more important things to investigate.

paul7986• 2 years ago

Similar here in the US yet and probably an unpopular thing to say but him buying Twitter / X was a major push in the US pendulum (zeitgeist) swinging from the left to the right. Himself a pendulum of the left and the right who swings either ways at his whim and or when it behooves him. He doesn't stand for either side just his ideologies and desires and with $444 billion net worth he can change societies as he chooses and has done and is doing openly.

Recently he posted about disliking Mackenzie Bezo's donations to various far left groups which is rich and laughable.

blackeyeblitzar• 2 years ago

Elon Musk is being sanctioned for interfering in European elections

Speech isn’t interference. Only authoritarians try to take retaliatory actions against speech.

oezi3• 2 years ago

Certainly his speech is considered foreign interference in Europe, but since it hasn't been unlawful so far there aren't any actions.

Europe in general is pretty much law-based, so I don't expect arbitrary retaliatory actions.

MattPalmer1086• 2 years ago

Consumers take retaliatory actions against assholes who use their $44 billion megaphone to interfere in our politics.

zfg• 2 years ago

You mean like how Musk takes retaliatory actions against speech:

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/06/business/x-banned-a-journ...

fullstop6• 2 years ago

The competition is getting better and Musk is a very polarizing individual. None of this surprises me.

InsideOutSanta• 2 years ago

I'm in Europe, and I've seen Teslas with "bought it before he went crazy" stickers. I think the Venn diagram of people who want to buy electric cars, and people who dislike Musk's recent behavior, has a pretty big intersection.

And yeah, the competition is getting much better. I'm seeing a lot of Polestar cars recently, and even a lowly Fiat 500e now advertises 460km range.

ChrisMarshallNY• 2 years ago

Some of the BMW electrics are amazing. I think they have been doing electric longer than Tesla.

drakonka• 2 years ago

I'm not really a car person but finding Teslas looking quite dated compared to other options, especially Polestar, in the roads these days. At one point you saw a Tesla and it had some kind of 'cool' factor by both reputation and aesthetics, but Musk has ruined the reputation and time + competition has ruined the aesthetics.

gazchop4• 2 years ago

I'd buy a Polestar 2 if I had somewhere to charge it. I hired a few over the last couple of years. Basically an electric Volvo. Everything just worked and they aren't particularly expensive.

code_for_monkey• 2 years ago

Musk tied himself so thoroughly to the brand and now hes tanking and taking the brand down with it.

ddalex4• 2 years ago

Given that Musk is actively working to undermine UE (L'Union européenne, EU in English, sorry for confusion), you'd have to be some kind of idiot to support him by buying a Tesla if you live in Europe.

calciphus• 2 years ago

Not arguing, but what is UE in this context?

tirant2• 2 years ago

Actually I think Musk is doing the opposite:

Europe has since many years suffered with high bureaucracy, strict regulations and in general low innovation levels.

Musk has been very vocal about those issues in Europe. He might be right or wrong, but questioning European levels of bureaucracy and regulations is not undermining EU, it’s going to help it.

Gud2• 2 years ago

Why? Many people dislike the European Union(myself included). Some of us believe it's an anti-democratic organization that should be dismantled. It hardly makes us idiots.

Additionally, not every European country is a member of the EU. I would argue Europe would be a lot better without such centralized power in the hands of a few.

tim3332• 2 years ago

Musk is a bit odd re the UK. He goes on about the Starmer and the grooming scandal but it's all a bit distorted like he's getting his info from American MAGA enthusiasts on X and doesn't seem to have spoken to many Brits. A recent poll has 71% of Brits having a negative opinion of him https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/71-of-britons-hold-negative-...

misja1115• 2 years ago

I'm not a fan of Musk but you're getting his intentions wrong. He's not actively trying to undermine the EU. His recent support for AFD was actually meant, misguided or not, to support Germany. And his support for Tommy Robinson in the UK was because he apparently believes freedom of speech in the UK is in danger.

pupppet• 2 years ago

The one drawback of civil discourse is feeling the need to use diplomatic language, even when it's not deserved. "Polarizing" is a term too good for Musk.

diegoholiveira• 2 years ago

China is doing pretty well on EV.

xyzzy4747• 2 years ago

Tesla has too much competition and their CEO is part-time. Boggles my mind that the stock is priced so high relative to their financial metrics.

morkalork• 2 years ago

He's got that Steve Jobs reality distortion field about him

ZeroGravitas4• 2 years ago

Appropriate to remember the original use for this phrase was to describe him stealing ideas from engineers with no credit in a psychotic fashion and make scheduling realistic release dates impossible:

https://folklore.org/Reality_Distortion_Field.html

he's really funny about ideas. If you tell him a new idea, he'll usually tell you that he thinks it's stupid. But then, if he actually likes it, exactly one week later, he'll come back to you and propose your idea to you, as if he thought of it."

And

He can convince anyone of practically anything. It wears off when he's not around, but it makes it hard to have realistic schedules.

red-iron-pine5• 2 years ago

he's got Saudi and Russian money propping the stock up and allowing him to play games

TrackerFF• 2 years ago

Model Y and 3 are still the most selling EVs here in Norway, but VAG cars have been catching up...fast. In 2023 Tesla vs VAG cars were roughly 25k vs 18k cars sold. Last year, it was 24k vs 21k. If the trend keeps up, VAG will outsell Tesla this year.

Source (though in Norwegian, use translate to read it): https://ofv.no/aktuelt/2025/nybilsalget-i-2024-9-av-10-nye-p...

Toutouxc2• 2 years ago

For me it was Musk. I had a finger on the trigger for an M3, which is an amazing car for the price, but then he just didn't know when to stop talking and I've sort of lost a lot of that enthusiasm. So now I'm waiting for the legacy brands to step up, which they unfortunately aren't really doing.

tvbusy• 2 years ago

So true. I'm selling my car to switch to an electric one and used to be really interested In Tesla.

verdverm7• 2 years ago

Ioniq 6 is an awesome alternative to the Model 3. I picked one up last fall and couldn't be happier

bekantan• 2 years ago

Any significant differences in charging experience? Can you use Tesla Supercharging network?

fullstop6• 2 years ago

I looked at those as well, but the ICCU issues were enough to deter me. I do a fair amount of highway driving and the thought of suddenly dropping from highway speeds to 12 MPH was somewhat chilling.

Maybe they are not as common as it seems.

fullstop6• 2 years ago

I went with an Equinox EV. It's not outstanding in any particular area, but it's good in all of them. It drives like a car with a battery and not a battery with wheels.

lokimedes3• 2 years ago

I was all set on a model-3, but found the quality lacking at the price. Bought a BMW 3-series hybrid at a comparable price, and is so happy about my choice. Their fully electric cars are fine too. With the dystopian turn of Musk, I will never consider a Tesla again.

hnburnsy3• 2 years ago

So when the warranty expires, you have two separate engines that your dealer will be repairing.

https://bmwinsights.com/why-are-bmws-so-unreliable/

SideburnsOfDoom3• 2 years ago

If the legacy brands don't step up very soon, the Korean and Chinese brands are doing so. Some should be on sale near you.

unshavedyak• 2 years ago

Same. I ended up picking up a Rivian, though until the R2 comes out that's a pretty big price to pay for personal beliefs.

I love the car though, quite happy. Hope they do well with the R2, Tesla could use some cheaper/modern competition.

EcommerceFlow• 2 years ago

You should get a Ford or Volkswagen, they have a much better track record.

hnburnsy3• 2 years ago

Ummmmm, doors flying open at highway speed on ID 4 EV...

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/volkswagen-halts-id-4-p...

pcardoso• 2 years ago

Same for me. The new model Y is sweet, even keeps the indicator stalk, but I can't buy one and knowingly be supporting Musk.

Keeping my diesel for a bit longer and eventually buy an EV from any another brand. EU, Korea, China, plenty of choice now.

coldpie3• 2 years ago

Hyundai seems to be the top of the EV game currently. We went with an Ioniq 5. Unfortunately not a ton of EV sedan options out there, yet, but they're starting to come online, with stuff like the Ioniq 6.

floxy• 2 years ago

The Ioniq 5 has a low reliability according to Consumer Reports. Lower than their gas models. I suppose it is all the ICCU and 12V battery failures. Same story with the KIA EV6. I guess those ended up with better reliability than Rivian, for what it is worth.

pj_mukh• 2 years ago

Same, and now I'm actually leaning towards a Plug-in hybrid because the legacy brands are so bad (bad range, bad charging network).

What a monumental dissolution in brand. I can only hope its felt quickly enough by Tesla's bottomline so it can a) either be reversed, or b) be an example to future entrepreneurs.

P.S: a) could be accelerated with some demonstrated excellence in Tesla Autopilot, it's possible, that would bring me back.

msluyter• 2 years ago

You're not alone. Type "best ev that's" into Google and the first autocomplete will be "best ev that's not a Tesla."

ddalex4• 2 years ago

Electric Volvos are super nice.

siliconc0w• 2 years ago

You can always get a used Tesla. I'm in a similar boat - FSD 13 looks really good and if it actually gets to 'personal driver' territory, it'd be hard not buy a Tesla.

regnull• 2 years ago

I had a model Y before, and after it became clear that I'm not extending my lease (thanks Mr. Musk), I test-drove a few alternatives, Mustang EV, IONIQ 5 & 6, etc. Ended up getting BMW I4, and man, this beats Tesla in every way. Yes, software might be not as perfect, but as a car to drive, it's so much better.

tirant2• 2 years ago

In 2022 I bought my first EV, a BMW i4. It was an impressive am car and still is: second only to Tesla Model 3 when it comes to efficiency and superior to Tesla in terms of features and driving assistant systems.

BMW and Tesla both refreshed their i4 and Model 3 models las year. And the improvement in the Model 3 has been noticeable: better efficiency and range, also better driving dynamics and added features. BMW has barely changed anything, same motors and batteries, just a slightly newer infotainment system and new aesthetic. Not only that, some features are actually gone like the laser lights.

The FSD in the Tesla has improved also lots since 2022, while BMW Driving Assistant is still the same we had in 2022. Robust, but no new features.

I think Tesla is really doing a great job of improving their vehicles compared to legacy OEMs. I guess the i4 will only get real improvements with their next model in 2027.

rcarmo2• 2 years ago

This is a sentiment I’ve had echoed across most of my techie friends. We probably relate more to what Musk says (and US politics towards the tech sector) than the average car buyer, and it is just a major turnoff.

UniverseHacker5• 2 years ago

I don't see any way for Tesla to survive as a company unless they can completely disconnect from Musk. In urban/leftist/yuppie circles- the only people that actually buy high end EVs new- it is socially taboo now to buy a Tesla, and the people already owning them are embarrassed, and hoping to get rid of them soon. The cybertruck is especially taboo and called names like the "incElCamino."

I think there is a big potential to capture the rural more right leaning market with EVs that have more range, offroad ability, and torque than ICE vehicles- but this will be done by brands like Jeep, Ford, and Scout through EVs with ICE range extenders that can operate outside of a charging network.

JeremyNT3• 2 years ago

I don't see any way for Tesla to survive as a company unless they can completely disconnect from Musk. In urban/leftist/yuppie circles- the only people that actually buy high end EVs new- it is socially taboo now to buy a Tesla, and the people already owning them are embarrassed, and hoping to get rid of them soon. The cybertruck is especially taboo and called names like the "incElCamino."

If you come to the richer southern cities the picture is very different than what you describe. I'm living in Nashville TN right now and there are Teslas everywhere. Many Republicans proudly have big lifted pickup trucks and Teslas (and a LOT of cybertrucks).

So while becoming an outspoken culture warrior may have cost Musk's brand some support in blue states, it has dramatically increased its appeal in "real America" where people love showing off their masculinity through their vehicles.

I suspect the Cybertruck will dominate the legacy auto makers in the EV pickup segment.

whamlastxmas3• 2 years ago

It is beyond out of touch to not see how one of the most profitable and successful car companies of all time is going to survive. Tesla is doing amazing and isn’t slowing down.

r00fus3• 2 years ago

I rented seven EVs this last summer (h/t Turo) and we ended up with a Kia EV6. Not a perfect car, but one my family loved more than the others. If we wanted something larger, the EV9 is also fantastic.

I'd recommend trying ones out and picking one. We're not at China-levels of EV options but many do exist at most price/luxury levels. Our other car is a Ford Focus EV which I wish they still sold (I got mine new for $20k about 7 years ago).

rstuart4133• 2 years ago

I spent a month in Germany a few years ago. The German government had put up some strong incentives to prompt the move to EV's. Germany has a large car manufacturing base, and those incentives meant every one of them had EV's.

Every German EV I saw was an ICE chassis retrofitted with batteries and an electric motor. For example they all had the hump intruding into the cabin space for the non-existent exhaust. Almost none had a frunk - it was needed for batteries or something. As a consequence the purpose built Tesla's were miles ahead. I had no idea why anybody bought these German EV's at time time, but it seemed like most Germans did.

If that's changed and Europeans making great EV's is what is driving down the sales of Tesla's then that is great news. But I live in Australia, and Tesla sales are having their edge taken off them here too. We don't make cars. There is one, and only country making a material dent in Tesla's EV sales. That is EV's from China. (Tesla's EV's sold here are also made in China, of course.) It's mostly because of price.

Despite the noise in the comments, I haven't met a single person who based their decision on Musk's personality. The things that tilt them towards other brands are price and a more conventional design (things like indicator stalks, displays in front of the driver, rain sensors that work). But these other brands are new, and meanwhile Tesla has very impressive service (BYD has suffered from widely publicised failures), an impressive charger network, and a track record. For now Tesla still dominates.

But the real story is China is made just about every EV sold here. The ICE's we import are made in a variety of places Japan, USA, Europe, and recently a few from China. But if this trend continues there will only be one country making the cars we import in 10 years time.

maeil• 2 years ago

While this is an oversimplification, my understanding is that it roughly goes like this;

BMWs are decent. Other European brands' EVs are a bit of a joke. Korean ones are solid. US big manufacturers are somewhere inbetween. The Hyundai Ioniq series is probably the best value for money on average for those who don't want a Tesla or Chinese EV.

mulmen2• 2 years ago

An M3 is a BMW. If you are talking about Teslas the car is called a Model 3. You can’t shorten it to M3 because that’s already a car. This is why a Musk didn’t get to call it Model E like he wanted to. It sounds too much like a Ford.

Toutouxc2• 2 years ago

Among EV enthusiasts, M3 is absolutely a Tesla Model 3. I know what a BMW M3 is (there was a time when I really wanted one), and I understand how much of a petrolhead icon the car is, I just don't care anymore.

Vaslo• 2 years ago

I doubt you did. You just don’t like Musk, and now you are larping as a Tesla buyer to make people think there is some big group that are going to punish Elon for not matching their views.

Outside far leftists, people are still buying and enjoying Teslas. The difficulties in Europe aren’t related to Elon’s politics, you just wish they were.

amelius• 2 years ago

Turns out EVs are technologically much simpler than ICE cars. Anybody can make them. And so does China.

miohtama• 2 years ago

Batteries are not simple, but turns out China has also the best battery making talent in the world.

Meanwhile RIP Northvolt, the star of the EU.

verdverm7• 2 years ago

SK & JP have battery talent as well

UniverseHacker5• 2 years ago

Battery cells are just a commodity EV makers can purchase- they don't need to be able to engineer them in house. There are a lot more parts on an ICE car that pretty much need to be engineered by the vehicle manufacturer.

ddalex4• 2 years ago

Electric LiPo cars are easier, GOOD electric lipo cars (with balanced chassis, good handling) are harder, but people don't realise that.

rqtwteye• 2 years ago

I think his support of right wingers like AfD and calling the German chancellor a fool doesn't go across well with a lot of people.

And the Tesla models are also getting stale.

ZeroGravitas4• 2 years ago

Luckily for Tesla their share price seems to have been disconnected from car sales for a long time.

But will it continue as a meme stock? Will it pivot into AI? Or just suddenly collapse in price one day?

toss12• 2 years ago

Even after losing 16% in a month, falling from a high of $480+ to $405, the PE ratio is still about 111X. Even in a period of near record-high overall market valuations of 26X [1] not seen in at least decades, even before the Dotcom boom/bust, this is an outrageous valuation. Tesla would need to either fall to about $100/share or more than quadruple earnings just to get down to this historically aberrant high of PE~26X.

Considering their now-established history of failure to deliver, the failure of the Cybertruck to catch on, and Musk's authoritarian behavior alienating most customers for his EVs, the prospects for a massive sustainable earnings increase are poor at best. Add onto that an economy that has been excellent for four years and will be difficult to sustain, especially with the new administration likely to undermine it with ill-advised scattershot tariffs and deportations, strong growth seems unlikely. I'd consider yourself very lucky if you had a position that you managed to sell in early December. I certainly wouldn't be buying any soon, but shorting meme stocks is dangerous (even if your thesis is correct, short-term motions can get you stopped out with a big loss before realizing profits).

[0] https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/TSLA/

[1] https://worldperatio.com/area/united-states/

rusty_venture2• 2 years ago

short-term motions can get you stopped out with a big loss before realizing profits

Can you elaborate on that a little? How does that happen?

rusty_venture2• 2 years ago

IMO it's pretty obvious it's being built up for short sellers to have a banner day. I'm guessing the hype bubble will burst sometime after Jan 20 when EV credits are slashed and FSD and the stupid 2-seater with no charging port mysteriously fail to materialize.

saturn8601• 2 years ago

This crying wolf has been going on for 10 years. It may happen one day but your comment sounds like a broken record. I can find your same commend posted an ungodly amount of times on /r/realtesla archives.

misja1115• 2 years ago

Part of the Tesla share price are the high hopes about their self-driving taxi plan. With Musk in the Trump government, the expectation is that regulations will be easier on Tesla to get those self-driving cars on the road.

duflotsam• 2 years ago

Regulations aren't the obstacle. The whole point of robotaxis is to not have to hire a driver. Waymo has the technology to do that, but Tesla does not and doesn't seem especially close to it.

1970-01-01• 2 years ago

This can only mean one thing

Another "one thing" that it suggests is Tesla vehicles are not breaking down, and current owners are happy keeping them as long-term owners.

AnotherGoodName2• 2 years ago

Different markets have different needs. I get that it may not matter for you but the removal of indicator stalks is a deal breaker in countries where you’re required to indicate both on and off roundabouts. Especially when those roundabouts are small. You have to first flick the stalk turn the wheel and flick the stalk while turning. Tricky even with a stalk but legally required and you will be ticketed in places for this.

I found it impossible to do with the tiny buttons on the steering wheel.

Everytime I mention this people argue the indicator buttons on the wheel are fine for them but it’s absolutely the reason I personally did not buy a Tesla. Different markets have different needs and the latest models don’t work in Europe.

I actually think they are dangerous and should be marked as unsafe given my own experience. You do risk a crash trying to find buttons on a tiny wheel.

CamperBob24• 2 years ago

Agreed that removing indicator stalks is asinine and should never have been permitted, but what on earth is the reason for signaling in a roundabout unless you are actively changing lanes in one?

AnotherGoodName2• 2 years ago

Similar to the reason you signal at a 4 way when turning across traffic (in that case it prevents a deadlock of two non indicating idiots waiting for each other when if they both indicated they could both go simultaneously).

In the roundabout case it lets drivers know you’re exiting the roundabout and they can enter it. It makes traffic much more efficient but it does need to be enforced since it’s for the benefit of other drivers not yourself.

lores3• 2 years ago

You're indeed signaling that you are about to change lane or exit. People waiting to get in know that they can do so if you're in the outside lane, or that to the contrary they should not take the outside lane if you're inside.

sjs382• 2 years ago

Same as everywhere else: to signal your intent to change lanes or exit the roundabout.

eweise• 2 years ago

I didn't know this but agree. Cars should have some control standards so its easy to switch driving between them. Sounds really dangerous to have someone unfamiliar with Tesla unique controls, to be driving.

nestorD• 2 years ago

Musk has been using his money to influence politics (including in the US, accross the board). Buying a Tesla is giving him money and thus supporting that behavior. It seems obvious to me (a European living in the US) that, if you disagree with his politics, you should not buy his cars. This also apply to people living in the US but, having seen a strongly pro choice north Californian friend buy a Tesla recently, I do not know if US citizens think in those terms.

boogieknite• 2 years ago

depends on who: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1hk3mmv/xpost_...

this is a very well known local meme which has been posted around the city. most people here get the reference and it gets called back about half the time i see a cybertruck in company

red-iron-pine5• 2 years ago

tesla stock price is so divorced from actual car sales it's debatable how much buying one or not actually impacts the company.

not saying you should buy one, mind you. just that the stock and his ability to support his behavior are divorced from sales

maxehmookau• 2 years ago

It's Musk.

Me, and thousands others, loved Tesla cars. Now you can buy a better, more reliable EV for the same money from a company not owned by a man hell-bent on forcing the rise of the far-right in Europe.

If Rupert Murdoch made cars, I wouldn't buy one of those either.

AlexandrB• 2 years ago

Tesla cars are really cheaply built. Putting every control on a touchscreen is a cost-saving measure. At the same time, Teslas are actually quite expensive to buy.

I think the target audience for this combo are people who love their iPads. I don't love my iPad - I want actual stalks and dials and knobs and buttons in my car so Tesla is not the car for me. In addition to the political intrigues others have mentioned I suspect that Tesla may be reaching the limit of "people who love their iPads" here.

astrospective• 2 years ago

I love my iPad, but I’d still rather have knobs and buttons in my car, if I need to adjust it while driving I need to be able to find it without looking.

7thaccount• 2 years ago

I'm in a similar boat. Touchscreens might look sleek, but it is dangerous in some ways as you can't adjust things without taking your eyes off the road. I do like the big backup camera though. I won't support Elon though, so Tesla is permanently a non-option for me now. The huge failure of the cybertruck also makes me wary of going that route as the number of videos showing the shoddy craftsmanship seems far too high.

gazchop4• 2 years ago

To be fair the model S wasn't like that the last time I drove one (hired 2022 model S). It's less of an iPad than the model 3 is. What is however terrible is none of the trim fits, the constant distractions and attention it requires and after driving a European car, it feels like I'm driving a Temu android tablet.

Hired Polestars since. Those just work, are put together properly and shut the fuck up when you're driving.

moogly• 2 years ago

Putting every control on a touchscreen is a cost-saving measure

That is the meme. But at the same time, they put a (barely usable) rear passenger touchscreen in the back seat mid console on the Model 3 refresh, and now they're putting powered back seats in the Model Y refresh. There's no way that's cheaper than a few buttons/stalks here and there.

Is that something they're purely doing to try to catch the hearts and minds of the Chinese market? As I have been led to believe, for a lot of Chinese, the back seat is very important.

Terretta• 2 years ago

I came to comments to make this point. Many of the EU manufacturers finally acknowledged the safety and usability of physical controls through research (aside from the customer clamor as customers realized touch screens weren't actually what they wanted), and EU pivoted. The physical controls EVs are now available.

USA didn't get the memo, or doesn't want to, thanks to differing corporate priorities and differing user persona preferences. USA manufacturers are (eventually) able to be influenced by customer outcry driving enough media to hit the independent dealer networks, but Tesla feels unlikely to do anything with the memo except file it in the circular bin.

Not sure about your "for people who love iPads" comment. I love my iPad Pro w/ Magic Keyboard + Magic Touch case and LTE modem, but get that crap out of my "control without looking" car experience. OTOH, I learned to drive in Europe.

okdood64• 2 years ago

I love BMWs and I'm on my 4th one now.

EU manufacturers finally acknowledged the safety and usability of physical controls through research

BMW is NOT reverting back to more physical controls. arguably their 2016 to 2024 cockpits (depending on model), iDrive 7, were the best.

Everything afterwards is a ginormous screen with very few physical controls outside of iDrive. The AC controls are the big one for me.

whamlastxmas3• 2 years ago

Strong disagree, Tesla quality is great for the price

chrisbrandow• 2 years ago

I’m sure Musk is non-trivia part of this, but also there haven’t been any significant remodel, update or new models (for typical consumers, cybertruck is fairly niche) released in quite a while.

At the same time tons of new e-vehicles are coming out from a ton of competitors.

Symbiote2• 2 years ago

The Cybertruck is mostly irrelevant in the EU, EEA, UK as it isn't road-legal in any of them.

If it has any effect it's as marketing, but that could just as easily be negative here amongst the expected customers of Tesla's other cars.

st-keller• 2 years ago

It was Musk. I wanted a Tesla for years. Now i bought a Hyundai.

tschellenbach• 2 years ago

High inflation and poor GDP growth probably also factor into this given the price point of Tesla cars

Al-Khwarizmi• 2 years ago

In Spain Tesla has actually had a record year, with a huge lead in EV market share (26.5%, the second being BMW with 6.3%). But I think this is circumstancial and next year may be very different.

The purchasing power in Spain is considerably lower than in e.g. Germany or France, so very few people are buying VAG or Stellantis EVs as they are perceived as overpriced (and the brands themselves often don't seem to want to sell them, but I won't bore you with that). During most of 2024, the Model 3 made sense for a lot of people in Spain, since it was the only EV that wasn't perceived as a toy car (Dacia Spring) or too expensive (most Volkswagen, etc.). Basically for less money than what the likes of Volkswagen or Peugeot were offering, you got a car with vastly superior specifications (especially range). Hence, it was the best selling EV by far, in spite of widespread negative perception about Musk and about the lack of physical controls.

Things are changing fast, though. On the one hand, the traditional brands are catching up with attractive models with decent ranges at attainable prices like the Citroën ë-C3 or the Kia EV3. On the other hand, the Chinese have entered the market, and even with the EU tariffs, they have attractive options at various price points like the Leapmotor T03 or the BYD Dolphin. So now if you don't actually like Tesla's offering that much, there is no reason to buy it anymore.

Scarce data, of course, but in the first 12 days of 2025, the Dolphin is the best-selling EV followed by the EV3. The Model 3 is far behind so far.

amriksohata• 2 years ago

Yes tanking but Europe is a small market for Tesla, the bigger numbers are in other countries.

taylodl4• 2 years ago

This article is about 2024 sales. I suspect 2025 sales are going to be brutal.

isk517• 2 years ago

In the comment section for that article someone was defending Telsa by claiming the one of the signs of the competition being behind is that they do not have nearly the same number of OTA updates as Telsa has. Personally, I would prefer a car that 0 OTA updates, or at the very least they should be extremely rare.

ge962• 2 years ago

On the topic of EVs I personally don't have an interest. I know the torque on electric beats ICE but man driving something like a pantera f yeah.

bunsenhoneydew• 2 years ago

I used to think Zuckerberg was the worst person in the tech world. Musk has far exceeded him. I wouldn’t spend a cent on a product associated with him.

user568439• 2 years ago

For me it's Musk too. The refreshed Model Y is the cheapest and most efficient car that fits all my requirements. I didn't like Musk before but I admired him. But supporting AfD in Germany, asking the king of England to kick the government and all other recent acts crossed a few red lines for me.

I have to change my car in May and it will be probably more expensive or worse car than the Model Y. I need 500+ km range, big trunk, efficiency, silence and confort, acceptable fast charging, heat pump and all for around 50k € max.

The Chinese options are cool but much less efficient. Not that cheap but better equipped. Also no service in some countries where I travel often.

KIA/Hyundai are a bit overpriced and okish but the EV5 is the only I would consider and it's not here yet. The VW group are overpriced and need a new platform. However my current first choice is the new Skoda Enyaq. Otherwise maybe a slightly used VW ID7 but it's too long for parking...

From Stellantis I could consider the Renault Scenic and its clones but I think they are a bit short on trunk capacity and they use too many capacitieve buttons

BMW is out of my reach but they make the best EVs from the ones I tried

Tesla Sales Are Tanking in Europe

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