$8k Suzuki from India received a 5-star crash test rating

https://jalopnik.com/this-8-000-suzuki-from-india-received-a-5-star-crash-t-1851696481

by rntn • 2 years ago

309 319 2 years ago

jalopnik.com

nine_zeros• 2 years ago

Can we get some of these cheap cars here? I don't want to keep funding Ford and GM shareholder greed.

djmips• 2 years ago

No you have to buy a puffed up SUV or truck!

ToucanLoucan• 2 years ago

All joking aside, it is a factor to consider when you're looking at these much smaller cars from foreign markets how they're going to fare when you get t-boned by a lifted F-350.

This is not an argument against this car or others like it, mind you, this is if anything an argument for them and against bloated American status symbols and the less skilled and less empathetic drivers who find them so appealing.

JKCalhoun• 2 years ago

Yeah, starting to think we're getting screwed in the U.S.

I kind of think if more people in the U.S. knew what the rest of the world were paying for cars they might take up arms.

OccamsMirror2• 2 years ago

Same here in Australia. We also have a 5% tariff, and an additional 33% on so called "luxury cars", even though we don't have a car industry anymore.

darth_avocado2• 2 years ago

It’s more expensive because you pay US wages to make the car. PPP is the real reason why it’s cheaper to build in a country where a $1000/month is a really good salary that will afford you a comfortable lifestyle on 1 income.

mdasen• 2 years ago

The thing is that cheap cars don't sell well in the US. Are you buying a Nissan Versa for $18k? Are you willing to drive a manual transmission to save $1,500?

Car companies have tried selling cheaper cars in the US. The Suzuki Dzire is 152" long. A Nissan Versa is 177" long - more than 2 feet longer. Toyota pulled the Yaris from the US market because of poor sales (despite being a well regarded car as a rebadged Mazda2; 171" long).

The Suzuki Dzire is the same length as the smallest Mini Cooper - but without the sports-car appeal. It'll do 0-60 in 12 seconds (14 seconds if you want an automatic). Americans want cars that can do 0-60 in half that time.

Companies have attempted to bring cheaper and smaller vehicles to the US, but Americans won't buy them. Even today, Americans will spend an extra $5,000-10,000 to get an SUV. Americans complain non-stop about gas prices, but proceed to buy vehicles that guzzle gas. The average new car price in the US is over $47,000 - way above what you'd pay for a loaded Toyota Camry. Americans don't want a Suzuki Dzire. They want a pickup truck with all the luxury trimmings.

Part of the cost of US cars is regulatory compliance. As the article notes, this was tested by Global NCAP which tests cars from markets with weak or non-existent regulations. Part of it is going to be the cost of labor or import tariffs. Mexico has lower wages than the US, but part of USMCA/NAFTA trade agreement means that their auto industry wages are a lot closer to US/Canada wages. You aren't going to be able to build them in India and import them to the US without facing tariffs. Part of it is that Americans simply don't want a cheap car.

I totally get where you're coming from because I don't want to spend a lot on a car. I also want an iPhone mini. People continually say that a small phone would be a big hit. Companies have tried and failed. There are so many cheaper options for cars in the US and Americans are spending nearly fifty grand instead. And when you start talking about bringing a Suzuki Dzire up to US regulations, import taxes, distribution costs (and the American wages you need to pay to everyone importing, transporting, and selling your cars here), equipment you want, etc. does that $8,000 vehicle look more like $14,000? And then at that price, do you want something that's 80hp and 0-60 in 14 seconds or would you rather spend up for a Toyota Corolla and get a much larger car with a lot more power and an amazing track record?

Toyota sold the Yaris for $16,000, but people didn't want it. We're talking about a car that Car and Driver gave 9.5/10. It was a really good car at a great price and Americans wouldn't buy it. It's easy to think "I'd love an $8,000 car" when you aren't/can't seriously consider buying it. But maybe we're similar and we'd like more affordable cars and are willing to go with something basic.

But most Americans wouldn't be up in arms for this $8,000 car. They're spending double what many great cars cost and they'd rather moan about the cost of gas than drive something efficient. Hell, hybrids today like the Civic or Prius get better 0-60 times than the sports sedans from my youth - but that doesn't matter. Americans will moan about paying for stuff, but the second that you suggest they buy something efficient or affordable or make any compromise and they'll find any reason not to.

mrguyorama3• 2 years ago

If there is one thing Americans show they are amazing at, it's insisting that the simple improvements that Europe has, like affordable small cars, or socialized (or better public/private like germany has), or trains, or consumer protections,

Are magically impossible here.

ars• 2 years ago

Companies sell what people buy. There's no car company conspiracy to keep small cars away from you.

nothercastle2• 2 years ago

Actually there is it’s called CAFE and tariffs

aiforecastthway2• 2 years ago

Car dealership owners are a staple of state legislatures for a reason.

pj_mukh• 2 years ago

I'd love a small car and do have a couple of options, but in an accident, I will lose so hard (see: die quickly), the risk just doesn't seem worth it. Until some intervention starts reducing car sizes en masse, this will just be true.

I'm loathed to even get a Prius with this being true.

WoodenChair2• 2 years ago

I don't want to keep funding Ford and GM shareholder greed.

As a long suffering Ford stockholder, I'd like to understand what you mean by "shareholder greed." Go look at a 30 year chart of their stock price. It's barely changed. They do have a nice dividend. The company's PE ratio is appropriate for a very very mature industrial stock. Its market cap is $43 billion. That's about 20% of Toyota and 4% of Tesla.

Who are these greedy shareholders and why are they managing to extract so little value out of the company despite being so greedy?

pbmonster2• 2 years ago

They do have a nice dividend.

You don't say. And maybe it would look a little less greedy if that dividend were slightly smaller, but you guys make them sell the Ford Fiesta in the US instead?

Hell, maybe the dividend wouldn't even be smaller! But nobody knows, since Ford doesn't sell cars for poor people anymore, not even the cars it makes in large numbers anyway.

maximus-decimus• 2 years ago

I don't know why you aim at them in particular. The only subcompacts left in NA I believe are the Nissan versa and the Mitsubishi mirage, and the Mirage gets killed next year.

They all killed their small cars. All of them.

No more Honda Fit, no more Mazda 2 / Yaris, Kia Rios, Chevy Spark, Chevy Sonic, Nissan Micra, Mitsu Mirage. In Canada at least, the Fiat 500 only exists as an overpriced BEV model with such a small range it's unusable except as a pure city car.

Nasrudith• 2 years ago

That is legitimately impressive. The only excuse I can see not to allow it is if it fails emissions and/or fuel efficiency tests.

tomcam• 2 years ago

I don’t mean to boast, but I found the “continue reading“ button in under five minutes. Bow before me, plebs.

merek• 2 years ago

The speed at which airbags deploy is mind blowing. In the video, the steering wheel air bag starts deploying around 20 ms after impact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRKAR0IZlgE

equestria2• 2 years ago

Why? 20 ms is a very long time in the world of digital electronics. 1 MHz = 1 microsecond ticks, and most embedded MCUs run 10x to 100x faster than that. Sensors and ADCs commonly have microsecond-range response times, too.

The mechanical part (rapid inflation) is more interesting, but for a long time, they did it the "obvious" way: a precisely-calibrated explosive charge, just enough to fill the bag without tearing it apart. Now, I think they're moving toward compressed air, which probably requires some clever engineering to build a sufficiently responsive electronically-controlled valve.

fracus• 2 years ago

It's like you answered your own question.

swiftcoder2• 2 years ago

20ms isn't all that long a window over which to filter all that sensor data and determine that you are actually in a crash (and didn't just take a speed bump a little too fast).

False-positive airbag deployments are not viewed very positively by the affected user (even if its strictly better than a single false negative)

chakintosh• 2 years ago

around 20 ms after impact.

that's the standard for all airbags

https://www.iihs.org/topics/airbags

WillAdams2• 2 years ago

Really miss my Geo Metro (re-badged Suzuki Swift)....

runlevel1• 2 years ago

A friend of mine had one when we were teenagers. It was fun in a way that only a cheap, tiny car can be. More go-kart than car.

The whole frame became a crumple zone in a low-speed collision with a Lexus. Fortunately, he escaped injuries in the way only the young can.

WillAdams2• 2 years ago

One thing which helped mine quite a bit was that when I needed tires the correct size wasn't available, so the shop put on tires which were one R-factor larger, resulting in slightly greater ground clearance, and everything which went with that --- looked a lot better too, with more normal proportions.

mkhpalm• 2 years ago

My dad logged every single fuel stop with amount, price, odometer, trip when he got his 1990 geo metro xfi. He commuted 120 miles for work and wanted the cheapest new car he could buy to do it in. IIRC the sticker said it got 52mpg highway but he was always bragging that he never got that low of gas mileage in it. We had that car until it was well over 300k miles when it got rear ended.

lgsymons• 2 years ago

Yes, it's worth noting for those that are less aware that the Suzuki Dzire in the article is a close relation to the Suzuki Swift, which comes in a 5 door hatchback configuration and is not _quite_ as budget minded.

The Swift is quite popular in many countries outside the USA, being a common choice for both first time car owners and seniors in Australia and New Zealand (and no doubt a number of other countries).

billforsternz• 2 years ago

Love my 2015 Suzuki Swift Sport bought new here in New Zealand. Fantastic car. Fun to drive, comfortable, practical, performant, reliable. Surprisingly spacious. Cost $NZ30K ~=~ $US18K.

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

The US don't have cheap cars because dealers and automakers prefer the high margins of more expensive cars.

In basically any other market in the world, the Nissan Versa is definitelly beyond the entry level and not the cheapest and smallest car.

WheatMillington• 2 years ago

It's also because American consumers, on average, absolutely without question prefer larger vehicles.

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

I know, but the american market is gigantic, there is probably a sizable niche for economical vehicles. And if nobody is selling cheap cars, how can we be so sure they won't sell?

hnuser123456• 2 years ago

And fuel economy regulations encourage larger vehicles with relatively more lenient emissions standards (moreso than the additional size would require) than is applied to smaller cars.

Insanity• 2 years ago

Also, even if Europeans would like the look of larger cars, our roads are not built for it lol. Definitely not in cities.

forgotoldacc• 2 years ago

Part is due to people being fearful of buying something smaller since there are so many colossal vehicles on the road that would be considered military-tier equipment in other countries.

Safety ratings are nice and all, but when faced with the very real possibility that a vehicle 3 times the mass of yours will someday hit you at 80+ miles per hour, you just have to accept the fact that Newton's second law is something that is hard to win against.

grahamj2• 2 years ago

It's also because American consumers, on average, are large

thephyber4• 2 years ago

Partially true.

Consumers don’t want tiny cheap cars. In the past few years, people have financed progressively more expensive cars over much longer periods, suggesting they don’t want the cheapest options.

Americans view cars as status symbols, not just transport. Hence, car companies sell cars as status symbols, not just utilitarian commodities.

mattigames• 2 years ago

I'm sure the advertisement done by those companies have nothing to do with them being seen as status symbols (and preferring bigger cars in general)

SoftTalker• 2 years ago

I'd buy one of those tomorrow if they were sold here (i.e. in the USA).

switch0073• 2 years ago

I love this narrative that marketing teams don't push things on customers

muffwiggler• 2 years ago

"Consumers don’t want tiny cheap laptops. In the past few years, people have financed progressively more expensive laptops over much longer periods, suggesting they don’t want the cheapest options.

SWEs view laptops as status symbols, not just tools. Hence, tech companies, like Apple, sell laptops as status symbols, not just utilitarian commodities."

branko_d• 2 years ago

I guess it's a bit of an arms race as well - if a heavier car hits a lighter car, the G forces in the lighter car will be higher, all else being equal.

The tragedy of commons is that if everyone bought a lighter car, everyone would be safer, not just the drivers but pedestrians and cyclists as well. Especially if "crash compatibility" was regulated and enforced.

That's, at least, how it seems to me while not actually living in the US - feel free to let me know if I'm completely off.

MisterKent2• 2 years ago

People in this thread seem to somehow think marketing is pushing people to want xyz.

That _cannot_ be the singular or even primary driver of a movement. Car manufacturers don't just make a car in a vacuum. They make what the market is asking for, and _then_ marketing steps in. Very few companies, like apple and Tesla, can foist weird stuff on consumers and have them like it. And even in those cases, they are really just building something they believe to be the faster horse.

There's a reason Tesla wanted to build and SUV and a model 3. There's a key target price point in the US for a car. No amount of marketing can make people buy a car they simply cannot afford.

lm28469• 2 years ago

suggesting they don’t want the cheapest options.

Suggesting that they have no financial education... The average loan duration is something like 70 months right now, with a mind boggling 7%-10% interest rate.

People make dumb decisions if they don't have the knowledge/education, by the time they're done paying their 40k car loan they paid 60k and the car is worth 20k.

Animats• 2 years ago

The US don't have cheap cars because dealers and automakers prefer the high margins of more expensive cars.

While BYD is quietly taking over in every country that doesn't have a domestic auto industry.

When BYD starts selling their $10,000 car Seagull car [1] in the US, even with a 100% tariff, it will be cheaper than anything Detroit makes.

[1] https://electrek.co/2024/05/22/byds-10000-seagull-ev-worryin...

Cumpiler693• 2 years ago

even with a 100% tariff

You're making it sounds like 100% is the highest possible ceiling for a tariff, when it's a number arbitrarily set to fulfill a specific agenda and can be infinitely adjusted.

Of course if you protect your domestic car industry too much it will slowly become uncompetitive and irelevant on the international free market.

yorwba2• 2 years ago

As your article points out, it sells for about $20k in Mexico and Brazil. They're dumping at $10k in China to destroy other Chinese car manufacturers and profitability is not required until subsidies run out. But in other countries those other Chinese manufacturers are mostly not even competing, allowing BYD to price higher and turn a decent profit. If a 100% tariff means they only make Chinese-level profit from US sales, it might not be worth it.

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

BYD is extremelly efficient, but BYD is also beneficiary of an extensive state directed industrial policy. And let's not forget that China keeps their currency intentionally devalued against the west, while the US now have the problem of an over-valued currency.

Just to add some perspective. It is still cheaper than anything Detroit makes, but 10.000 USD is a bit misleading if you ignore currency policies, subsides, incentives and regulatory differentials.

laweijfmvo2• 2 years ago

I recently got a deal (under $100 for 5 days) on a car rental. After turning down all the offers to upgrade, they gave me a Versa. I loved it. It actually felt like a car again, not a computer on wheels, and I could actually see out the windows on all four sides.

sephamorr3• 2 years ago

I had a similar experience in a rental. The one feature I missed was a wireless key fob, which is not included in the base trim. I understand the relentless cost pressure in automotive mfg, but that seems like it would have been $2 worth spending.

thaumasiotes• 2 years ago

and I could actually see out the windows on all four sides.

I can't believe the modern style is to have the walls of the car so far away from the seats. I assume it fulfills some kind of crash safety mandate? It clearly isn't worth it.

We've gone from "pull up to the machine and take a ticket" to "pull up to the machine, park, get out of the car, take a ticket, get back in the car..."

jimt12342• 2 years ago

For the last 40 years, cars sold in the US have really been a way to profit from high-margin auto loans.

dingaling• 2 years ago

The US don't have cheap cars

They absolutely do. The cheapest Nissan in the UK is a Juke at $29,775 ( per xe.com conversion rate ). A US-market Nissan Versa starts at $17,995.

Even removing taxes the Juke costs around $24,800.

adhamsalama• 2 years ago

But it's a Juke.

https://youtu.be/PWHYZrnxJmQ

lmm• 2 years ago

That Versa is the cheapest new car in the US, from any manufacturer. The comparison would be the Citroën C3 Origin at £14,150, so a smidge cheaper than that Versa.

(I don't know why Nissan isn't selling small cars in the UK any more - the Micra was very popular up until about a decade ago)

clavigne2• 2 years ago

The Nissan versa is like the last cheap car.

The Chevy Spark is dead.

The Mitsubishi Mirage is dead.

etc.

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

The UK has become a completely disfunctional toy economy and it is not a useful parameter.

moltar• 2 years ago

Should be sold in Europe!

michaelteter• 2 years ago

Passenger and pedestrian safety is very important, and this is quite an achievement.

I do wonder about the manufacturing and supply chain, and how environmentally (and worker) friendly it is given the extremely low price.

screye• 2 years ago

I can speak for this. I've worked as a mechE on production lines in India.

The parts quality, worker treatment and environmental considerations are excellent (especially compared to what I came in expecting).

These are well-paying stable jobs for low-skilled labor. The plants were clean and significant precautions were taken before operating risky machines. Unionized plants tend to be more worker friendly but also worse run.

The thing about making $8k cars is they only make sense at scale. And effective operation at scale needs a well oiled workforce with little leeway for the kind of inefficiencies that come with haphazard work.

Now, 3rd party supplier conditions are more suspect. They can range from being at parity to looking like a proper sweat shop. But the mines where Apple's silicon is mined isn't that different either.

darth_avocado2• 2 years ago

It’s cheap because PPP. The same reason it is cheap to get a Chinese EV than it is to get an American EV.

jazzyjackson• 2 years ago

Purchasing power parity? Public private partnership? Paycheck protection program? Pextreme Pertical Pentigration?

Gualdrapo• 2 years ago

To think the Jimny originally has 5 airbags but here in Colombia is being sold with only two...

Tor3• 2 years ago

As someone having owned several.. are you sure about that? I've never seen a Jimny with 5 airbags. Not in Japan either (as a Jimny fan I always check them out whenever I get the chance). I can't see how that could ever have been possible, there's nowhere to design in any more than the two my own has, as far as I can tell.

hulitu4• 2 years ago

It is because of regulations.

You see a lot of articles on HN lately about relay attacs, but they forget to say that those are mostly old cars in US.

liampulles• 2 years ago

I have a newer Suzuki Swift - great hatchback. All straightforward dials and knobs (no infotainment system, though it has Bluetooth) and no issues for the 4 years I've owned it so far. It was the cheapest new hatchback one could buy when I bought it.

frereubu• 2 years ago

Looks like it only gets three stars in the Euro NCAP tests though.

GJim• 2 years ago

It looses NCAP points because it doesn't have lane assist..... a technology many consider of highly questionable benefit.

Euro NCAP is a very crude tool.

rockyj2• 2 years ago

I am an Indian living in Berlin. I always am surprised at the price differences between the countries. A new small SUV in India (e.g. Citroen Basalt) with all bells and whistles is less than 10k Euros (https://www.carwale.com/citroen-cars/basalt/) and here in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K.

On the other hand, in India any car is probably unusable after 10-15 years, and here in Germany people buy a car for life.

ricardobayes• 2 years ago

The Dacia Sandero starts at around 13k in Europe and by all means a pretty good car. I have a friend who bought one new and told me it has been very reliable.

WeaselNo7• 2 years ago

The Dacia Sandero unfortunately gets a 2 star Euro NCAP rating (which is typical for Dacia cars). Not something I personally would feel safe putting my family into!

627467• 2 years ago

With all the "green" restrictions in place in many european cities - forbidding cars as recent as 2005 to enter them - cars are only for life if you live in the middle of nowhere or have a short life

OtherShrezzing• 2 years ago

You can usually retrofit a pre-2005 vehicle for a thousand or so euros. Approx the cost of the annual maintenance on a vehicle of that age, and certainly far less than the cost of a new or used car (either financial cost or embodied emissions cost).

pjc50• 2 years ago

That was nearly twenty years ago, a very high lifetime for a car.

rusticpenn2• 2 years ago

The roads, weather, driving habits etc in India play a role.

theshrike79• 2 years ago

It's because we don't want to end up like this: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mumbais-air-qualit...

Most of the extra price goes into emissions reduction.

tock• 2 years ago

India's AQI issues mostly stem from crop burning. AFAIK cars have to comply with BS6 which is pretty similar to Euro 6.

f1shy3• 2 years ago

I've no idea, but I think they will also cut some corners in safety, like 2 instead of 6 to 8 airbags, ABS, ESP, etc.

piyushpr134• 2 years ago

Nopes. Bharat stage 6 and eu6 norms are exactly same. https://gomechanic.in/blog/bs6-vs-euro6-what-is-the-differen...

Moreover, we are really really mileage conscious so our cars are very fuel efficient, leading to lower emissions.

acchow• 2 years ago

and here in Germany people buy a car for life

The average age of a car in Germany is 10 years so I guess this was sarcasm?

rockyj2• 2 years ago

No sarcasm. In India cars are pretty much unusable after 15 years due to wear and tear, not to mention laws like - https://www.hizuno.com/blog/motor/15-years-old-car-rules-in-... (tldr: cars older than 15 years have to be dumped)

In Germany, people may upgrade from their own will, but even from my window I can see a dozens cars parked which are more than 10 years old. Not to mention a new Merc or VW can probably be stil working well in 20 years (for example see autoscout24 for Mercs from 2014 still selling for 15K).

publicola1990• 2 years ago

And it could even cheaper since like about 40% of price of many cars in India is reportedly taxes and duties.

devsda• 2 years ago

Its actually sometimes more than 40% and that's not even for luxury cars.

Here's[1] an example for a car costing a million INR, taxes are more than 300K. That's not the final landing price. Final price adds up extra road tax component that is anywhere from 13 to 17%(or even more) which is calculated on top of the 1 Million.

In case you missed it, that's tax on tax i.e. double taxation! Some courts have ruled it illegal but majority of state governments act ignorant and just continue the practice.

1. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/235811-query...

lnsru• 2 years ago

People used to buy a car for life. These cars from the past were built differently and made a good name for German cars. Golf 4 is a legend. Now it’s crap made for 150000 miles and then time to buy a new one. All brands the same! Source: buddy from Bosch from ECU department sharing the requirements for modern car. And recent sad personal experience.

f1shy3• 2 years ago

The requirements from all auto makers, not only for ECU, but every single part is 10 Years/ 100k km for low end, 15 Years 150k km for high end. I think that is no secret. And that is 100% the experience if you buy a car, there is a point where the maintenance per year is more than the value of the car itself. At that point the car is effectively 0 EUR value.

I hear in USA the Toyotas hold much longer... I'm not sure why, if it is true, and what are the conditions.

itsoktocry2• 2 years ago

People used to buy a car for life.

When? The 1940s?

We know this isn't true, based on the existence of older cars, today.

I'd put money on a barebones car of today outlasting nearly anything of the past.

f1shy3• 2 years ago

and here in Germany people buy a car for life.

In which Germany are you living? People change car pretty regularly, especially because of the maintenance cost for passing the TÜV. All small cars sold have distribution belt soaked in oil, so you have to change before 10 years, and by that time the cost of changing the belt is more than the car value.

wil4213• 2 years ago

For anyone wondering, a distribution belt is the timing chair (or timing belt in this example). GM has a Duramax 3.0 diesel engine with a timing belt instead of a chain and it’s on the back. People were so angry GM put out a warranty for 5 year 100k miles.

I’ve seen tear downs on YouTube and the Duramax people are livid about a belt.

hengheng• 2 years ago

The median car in Germany is 12 years old or so, almost the same as in similar countries. That's a result of cars simply lasting longer than they used to.

First owner is usually a lease customer (company car), second owner will keep it for much longer, third or fourth owner will run the car into the ground, and it'll almost always be crushed in Eastern Europe. Guessing grandparent is seeing a lot of second and third owner cars.

ponector6• 2 years ago

With all bells and whistles Citroen Basalt is 15k euro, which is still cheap. But for 15k euro you can get a new Citroen C3 in Germany as well, but with basic configuration.

>in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K.

You cannot compare Indian Citroen with German Mercedes.

Intermernet• 2 years ago

Mercedes have a pretty terrible reputation these days. A mechanic friend of mine rates them as one of the most unreliable new cars you can buy.

adrianN2• 2 years ago

The average age of cars on the road in Germany is almost certainly lower than 15 years. I believe I remember it was something like eight years.

neoromantique2• 2 years ago

here in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K.

Then you're doing something very wrong. There are literally thousands of cars for sale that are reliable and well maintained for half that.

Hell, these days even a sub 1K eur can get you by in a pinch, if you choose carefully enough.

Hendrikto2• 2 years ago

here in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K.

What are you talking about?

I bought my used Opel Corsa with 50k km for 2200€. Driven it for 60k km since, without problem. So it was definitely “decent”.

exar0815• 2 years ago

I would love to buy one of the Maruti Suzuki Jimnys. It's been sold in Europe, but you can't get one in Europe anymore because its not complying with arbitrary eco-guidelines (Which somehow a G-Wagon, a Defender or a Land Cruiser are). Prices for 50K KM Used Cars are nearly double the price of new ones. Since also LADA isn't on the European market anymore, you can't get a small off-road capable vehicle anymore. Okay, there are no dedicated off-road vehicles anymore, only luxury SUVs that no one can afford and no one would take off road.

medoc• 2 years ago

There is the Dacia Duster if your off-road needs are not really hardcore.

alias_neo5• 2 years ago

Since we're on safety ratings; the Duster gets a 3/5 from Euro NCAP.

Many of Dacia's newer models get 1/5, some 2/5, and only the Sandero gets 4/5, their highest score (in this market).

In the UK, a Duster starts at £20k for the base model , while something equivalent with a 5 star rating like a Nissan Qashqai or Kia Sportage starts at £30k.

dav43• 2 years ago

I would love one of these too. However, being in Singapore I was not in position to drop 152k (SGD) or 113k (USD)[0] on one.

[0] https://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_listing.php?MOD=S...

n-i-m-a• 2 years ago

Fiat Panda 4x4 isn't a bad off-road option.

namdnay• 2 years ago

I don't believe it's being built anymore - the target audience go for Dusters

alexey-salmin• 2 years ago

Jimny is in a completely different league than Panda 4x4, not even remotely close. Ladder-frame chassis, no center differential, beam axles, double-range gearbox — none of that typically applies to SUVs (especially cheap ones)

merpkz• 2 years ago

But Suzuki Jimny is still being sold in Europe. Sure it's a bit pricy, but so are all cars these days

gorbypark• 2 years ago

I believe that the Jimny is only sold as a "commercial" vehicle now, which in most EU countries precludes you from actually buying one unless you are a company (probably being sold to farmers and etc). At least, this is the case in Spain. I think it's to dodge some sort of emissions regulations, I guess commercial vehicles are at a lower standard.

runeks• 2 years ago

[...] its not complying with arbitrary eco-guidelines [...]

Anyone know what these are?

gregoriol• 2 years ago

"arbitrary" means the poster doesn't know what there is actually, but wants to blame EU anyway

karolist• 2 years ago

Eco guidelines apply to manufacturer's fleet sales as a whole, meaning a larger manufacturer which makes EVs and eco friendly ICE variants has the "budget" to offer models that are not eco friendly, such as your examples. Suzuki doesn't have offers on the market that would offset the Jimny's pollution so they can't sell it anymore.

Propelloni3• 2 years ago

I guess it is because of EU fleet-wide CO2 averages. From next year on fleets must be below 93 g of CO2 per kilometer or the manufacturer is fined.

Suzuki has a very small fleet without any real low-emission cars, thus struggles to get below this new average. Combine this with the EU Jimny's four-cyclinder 1.5 l engine terrible gas mileage and it is easy to see why Suzuki is pulling this car (and many others) from the EU market.

That's why critics say that the fleet-wide CO2 average regulation favors manufacturer with large fleets. Since actual sales number do not factor into the equation low or no emission vehicles average out the wasteful SUVs and other big cars on a fleet average on paper only.

I'm not completely against fleet-wide averages, but I would like to see a competition. The fleet with the lowest average CO2 emission per kg sets the lower bound for a given year and all others are fined. This would cause a very fast scramble (just to catch up with Tesla, Jaguar, and Honda) and level the playing field for smaller manufacturers.

Propelloni3• 2 years ago

It appears volume is somewhat accounted for: https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/co2-perform...

But only in the sense that manufacturers are pooled together to reach a certain volume and very small manufacturers are basically excluded from the regulation.

jojobas3• 2 years ago

The engine is beside the point, it's the square unaerodynamic shape that's penalized.

This averaging doesn't make any sense, they allow a G600 (13l/100km) while disallowing the 7l/100km Jimny.

Jasp3r• 2 years ago

It got canned because it doesn't meet the new Vehicle General Safety Regulation laws from the EU. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

concordDance• 2 years ago

I'm not completely against fleet-wide averages, but I would like to see a competition.

They seem absurdly silly. Just put a tax for each car of $$$ per g of CO2 per km. Then you're properly targetting the thing you care about rather than a lossy proxy. Or even better, increase tax on fossil fuels!

speerer2• 2 years ago

I just want to interject that "50K KM" was fun to parse out. I like the way two conventions collided here. 50Mm would have been correct, but confusing.50MM more so.

HPsquared7• 2 years ago

To be fair, 'kk' is often used as an abbreviation for million in some countries.

Hendrikto2• 2 years ago

Are you American? As a European, I did not even think twice about this.

Kilometers (km) is how we measure distance. 1000 km = 1k km, not 1Mm (nobody ever uses that), so it follows that 50000 km = 50k km.

tecleandor2• 2 years ago

They sold for a while the "commercial vehicle version" (Jimny Pro) that removed the two seats in the back. There is a "Jimny Horizon" on a limited edition only sold in Germany and quite expensive.

Until the arrival of the rumored hybrid or electric versions, there isn't anything like that :(

FooBarBizBazz2• 2 years ago

there are no dedicated off-road vehicles anymore, only luxury SUVs that no one can afford and no one would take off road.

I saw a classic Willys MB -- an original Jeep -- the other day, and it really brought home to me how far modern "SUV"s have strayed from their roots. It was shockingly small, and open, and, yes, dangerous for modern roads, but also fun-looking. It would be at home next to a tuk-tuk.

potato37328423• 2 years ago

Which somehow a G-Wagon, a Defender or a Land Cruiser are

Makes sense in a sort of perverse way when you think about who buys what and who votes for what.

wodenokoto• 2 years ago

You're not getting a Jimny for 8k USD and you are not getting a 5-star crash test rating with one either. But it is cute AF!

It is for sale and also available for private leasing in Denmark. So not dropped in all of Europe.

cies3• 2 years ago

Crash rating are "per class". So a 5-star for a mini car is VERY different from a 5-star SUV.

There was once they frontally test crashed the safest mini car against the safest SUV and the mini car kind of evaporated while the SUV had a broken bumper/headlight but still could drive.

downWidOutaFite• 2 years ago

It feels almost selfishly evil to buy cars that increase your safety at the expense of others. It also promotes a race to the top, bigger and bigger cars over time, which is indeed what we have seen in the US market over the last 30 years. Does SUV safety ratings include the likelihood of killing others?

cies3• 2 years ago

Nope. Only safety for the people in the car is considered. Volvo is quite vocal about wanting to produce a car that is safe for the people outside the car. They have a target that no one should die from a (new) Volvo crashing into them by some year in the future. They want to use auto-braking systems and external airbags iirc.

cies3• 2 years ago

I feel the "Race to the top" is also happening with car head lights. They are much brighter nowadays. It's nice for the driver of such a car, but super nasty for other road users. It's almost as if you need tainted glass to go with it (but then you dont see the road users that do not have these super bright lights)

amne• 2 years ago

Euro NCAP does. The safest car right now if you care about pedestrians/cyclists appears to be the Toyota CH-R.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/toyota/c-hr/51098

Darthy• 2 years ago

Be aware that for global NCAP, safety ratings are dependent on the vehicle class. If a subcompact car receives 5 stars, this does not mean it has the same probability of survivability in full frontal crash as a large executive luxury sedan that received 5 stars.

In fact, if there was a head-on crash between this car and Mercedes E-Class, and you're planning to be in one of the cars, I would advise you to chose the Mercedes.

rob74• 2 years ago

Hence the "arms race" of ever huger cars, yes. And, if you value your life, don't even think about cycling or going by foot with such cars around...

chongli• 2 years ago

Yes. Anyone who has worked on conservation of momentum problems in high school physics should recognize this. Even at low collision speeds if there is a large disparity in mass between the vehicles then the lighter one experiences a lot of acceleration.

For an extreme case think of a low speed collision between a bowling ball and a ping pong ball.

lupusreal2• 2 years ago

There are several things you can do to dramatically reduce your risk. Cycle during the day, while sober, with bright colors, with a helmet, and avoiding multi-lane roads. If you do these things you've statistical eliminated most of the risk.

victim blaming

It's an exercise in reducing risk, not assigning blame.

the law says I can cycle on those roads

The law can't bring you back to life, but if you want to take the risk that's your decision.

resource_waste5• 2 years ago

I'd rather be in a small car and hit a tree/electrical pole than in a massive vehicle.

postalrat• 2 years ago

Which is why I'd like a wedge car made to go under a large car in a front end collision.

https://i.imgur.com/xHWAeR4.png

globular-toast• 2 years ago

I guess this means "vehicle safety ratings" only take into account the safety of those inside the vehicle? In a better world the safety of those outside of the vehicle would not only be taken into account but weighted more heavily, which would mean small cars that are safe for the occupants would get the highest ratings. Sadly we not live in that world.

adrianN2• 2 years ago

Pedestrian safety is a factor in the ratings.

ummonk2• 2 years ago

They only take into account the safety of those inside the vehicle, assuming they hit a static barrier or have a collision with the same vehicle.

sudopluto3• 2 years ago

awesome, i will only buy ford f150s from now on so i can have the most mass during any collision and thus will never be on the worse end of a collision. is it really american if you aren't screwing over your peers?

sudopluto3• 2 years ago

you should lookup the size comparison of a sherman tank and a modern f150, it's crazy

rpmisms• 2 years ago

Should probably go for an F-450 in that case.

reacharavindh• 2 years ago

Just a thought process.. how bad would a f150 <~> f150 collision be, compared to say VW Golf <~> VW Golf? If everybody went with f150, and the chances of colliding with another heavy one increases right? In the end, the edge is only short lived right?

FollowingTheDao• 2 years ago

YEs, and so I think higher weight classes of cars should require more licensing and higher fees to own.

For safety, we should be limiting the size discrepancy of vehicles where we can.

trgn• 2 years ago

In a tragedy of the commons, without top down intervention, people either choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

manishsharan• 2 years ago

That's why everyone in North America drives or aspires to drive a Ford F150 or Hummer

awongh• 2 years ago

This seems like a clear case for government regulation over libertarianism, because who else holds the interest of this sort of social good at the scale of all cars driving the roads?

The personal moral dilemma here is crazy. Are you willing to risk your own life and the lives of anyone else in your car over the lives of the people in the other car? It's so terrible but you also can't fault anyone individually for choosing a larger car for safety reasons. (Those reasons being, I would prefer to kill someone else than kill myself or others in my car.)

rldjbpin• 2 years ago

relative rating or not, it has been successful at pushing car manufacturers to make safer cars, at least in the region the article talks about.

recently it has become a selling point to have a 5 star safety rating for cars in the market, which has finally made basic aspects like airbags part of the cheaper trims.

everdrive• 2 years ago

If they try to bring it to the US, it will need to weigh 4,300 lbs and cost $39,900. There are no more cheap, small, light, or basic cars in sold in the US.

dotancohen• 2 years ago

The fine article opens with:

  > There aren’t any new models available under $20,000 in the for American car buyers anymore

It then continues:

  > America’s cheapest car, the Nissan Versa, starts at $18,330, more than double the price of a base Dzire.

Am I missing something, or were the facts bent for journalistic effect, or is this not the contradiction I think it is?

xbmcuser• 2 years ago

I think they mean that it's not a new model its a refresh of an older model.

ricardobeat• 2 years ago

May I suggest replacing the URL with the actual article at https://www.motor1.com/news/740524/suzuki-dzire-five-stars-c...

The current link is an ad-infested repost.

nubinetwork• 2 years ago

That link has just as many ads... /shrug

helsinkiandrew• 2 years ago

Also the Global NCAP test page/press release/article:

https://www.globalncap.org/news/new-dzire-from-maruti-suzuki...

Which links to the original test report: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fb4ea8933ae6c208c3da...

rty322• 2 years ago

I was amazed by the amount of ads on the site -- that's a lot. That's when I have uBlock origin and almost only ever see subtle text based ads occasionally.

zaroth• 2 years ago

You should not give these sites the benefit of rendering their own HTML.

Ask your agent to convert the URL to markdown, and read it in VS Code or whereever.

hemc4• 2 years ago

No wonder this is the favorite car of taxi drivers and widely used car in India.

Tiktaalik• 2 years ago

A tragedy that Suzuki pulled out of NA. In Japan right now and seeing so many nice Suzukis. Especially the Jimny.

alephnerd3• 2 years ago

India's branches of Japanese automakers tend to be essentially independent of the Japanese parent company.

When Japanese automotive FDI in India began in the 1980s, Japanese companies would essentially create a JV with an existing Indian manufacturer and ToT much of the technology and operations.

For example, Maruti Suzuki (Maruti Udyog and Suzuki), Toyota Kriloskar (Kriloskar Group and Toyota), and Hero Honda (Hero Group and Honda, though both ended up splitting in the 2000s).

Korean manufacturers in India do the same, hence why Hyundai Motors India IPOed a couple weeks ago despite technically being a part of Hyundai Motors.

DrNosferatu• 2 years ago

How does this Global NCAP compare to EuroNCAP?

A equal score on both means very different safety levels!

$8k Suzuki from India received a 5-star crash test rating

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