Just use fucking paper, man

https://andy-bell.co.uk/just-fucking-use-paper-man/

by tobr • 2 years ago

169 180 2 years ago

andy-bell.co.uk

JohnFen• 2 years ago

This is why, after a lot of experimentation, I decided to stick with paper as well. All of the other alternatives bring significant friction and other downsides, with very nearly no benefit to me.

jasonwcfan• 2 years ago

My handwriting is barely legible, even to my self. So I'll stick to Notion, thank you very much.

normie3000• 2 years ago

Mine too, but I rarely read my notes.

java-man• 2 years ago

I write a lot of notes, on many devices, some of them are commands or urls so they need to be copied. And I do need search.

hilux• 2 years ago

I'll use paper when they invent handwriting I can read.

Bonus: the handwriting is searchable.

gumboshoes• 2 years ago

I still use the "hipster PDA": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipster_PDA

Bedon2922• 2 years ago

I hadn't seen that before, but I kind of like it. I keep a stack of blank index cards on my desk for writing down lists of priorities and things and they end end up with them scattered around. Restack them up and review priorities, consolidate, and things like that on occasion. A binder clip to keep some with me and organized would be nice. I have a notebook I keep with me, but end up with lots of clutter and flipping around without the ability to toss old cards. May have to experiment with it some.

lemonberry• 2 years ago

Hipster PDA, yellow legal pad, and sticky notes.

al_borland7• 2 years ago

The modern commercialized version of this is Ugmonk’s Analog.

lelandfe• 2 years ago

$100 for some index cards and a tray, $40 for a resupply of index cards. Now that's a business model.

keybpo• 2 years ago

Oh, wow! I started using that in my university days (2002) as notebook for classes and eventually for everything else, didn't know it was ever a thing. It just made sense, given how much one-side only printed pages I had laying around. I also tried a crud bounding with twine for more stability but figured a second clip on the opposite side was enough and saved me the effort of punching holes. I also reused an old moleskine notebook cover which was just the perfect size. It still lives today, now as my ebook reader cover and a few blank pages. With a rubber band, it can also fit nicely an securely a pen.

silveira• 2 years ago

Hobonichi Techo.

auggierose• 2 years ago

I think if you prefer paper over tools like Things, which I like very much, then you are probably super organised already in the first place.

I mean, how do you organise all that paper??

johndavidback• 2 years ago

I keep a little pocket notebook. Moleskin makes them and others. One of them is just for to-dos, I keep another for ideas.

PhasmaFelis• 2 years ago

Yeah, if you only need to write down a few lines of tasks every day, that's lovely for you, but to me this reads like a dude commuting to work on a bicycle telling a semi trucker that he doesn't need that big engine.

squidbeak2• 2 years ago

Toss them in recycling bins when the todos are complete?

akshayrajp• 2 years ago

I use a simple todo.txt and have everything I need on there. I use notepad to work with it.

I get shit done.

happytoexplain2• 2 years ago

I also prefer just a txt file or pinned Keep note for todo lists, but I maintain about a dozen different lists, and not everything gets done. Occasionally I will do an audit and remove things.

Are you just in a scenario where you have absolute control over what you do and on what timeline?

If not:

Do you ever lose track of older items (i.e. forget about them for a long time because your eyeballs don't land on them)?

How do you decide when to remove something that isn't done?

Alternatively, if things never enter the list faster than they leave, how do you predict whether something will or will not violate that rule at entrance time?

jjeaff2• 2 years ago

My problem with paper is that I can't keep up with paper. I will lose it several times a day, and inevitably, I will lose it permanently after a year or two. I need the sync and findability that an app on a device affords.

trzy• 2 years ago

If your project TODO lists are stretching into years, it's time to get a better project management system. I recommend paper.

lpapez• 2 years ago

Absolutely.

If an item has been on your TODO list for years, it's most likely not worth doing anyway.

Might as well lose the paper upon which the item is written.

paulddraper• 2 years ago

I will lose it several times a day

This is me.

Skill issue notwithstanding.

happytoexplain2• 2 years ago

This is unrealistic. If I didn't accept TODO items older than a year, or even five years, I never would have built my fence, fixed my stairs, set up my home lab, learned iOS development, digitized my family's old photos/videos, or innumerable other things, because for each of those things, I had 10 to 100 more mundane but more time-sensitive/higher-priority things to do.

You can manage long-term lists without losing items to the abyss by using prioritization techniques.

wwweston• 2 years ago

15 years ago while resisting the smartphone shift I got myself a passport case to use as a combined wallet and portable notebook to write things down in. It worked reasonably well and certainly had some robust advantages but honestly so do cross-device syncd apps that I've used since smartphone adoption.

cholantesh• 2 years ago

I hate those cases, but yes, synced todos (including grocery lists!) have been the killer app for smartphone use for me. Still, once I got my S20 this year I stopped doing it as much because the thing is too damn huge to be worth it. I've gone back to using a moleskine and it's fine, but just one more thing to carry around.

thih93• 2 years ago

If it was important, you wouldn’t lose it. It’s a feature; sort of a garbage collection.

viraptor2• 2 years ago

Assuming that judgement is in any way involved in situations like that is a mistake. At the very least for ADHD-i people like me.

jjeaff2• 2 years ago

You've never lost your wallet or your keys?

stocknoob• 2 years ago

Tape an AirTag to your paper notebook.

barbazoo• 2 years ago

but for todo lists, all of the above are way too complicated.

I think their point was specific to to-do lists which usually aren't around for that long and in my experience rarely need to be searched.

mwcremer• 2 years ago

As @kabdib says, "You can't grep paper."

squidbeak2• 2 years ago

His use case it todo lists. Do you often need to grep todo lists?

akira2501• 2 years ago

I rarely need to. The things I'm writing down have a shelf life of at most one week. I also draw pictures and diagrams which you can't grep anyways. The Tops brand Steno Pad has been a feature on my desk for the last 30 years. If you use it linearly it's somewhat self indexing and going "back in time" to find things is much easier than you'd expect.

pj_mukh• 2 years ago

And now its,

"I can't turn my paper into a Vector DB to build a RAG pipeline and connect it to a voice chat so I can "talk" to my notes" :'D.

marcosdumay• 2 years ago

You can't delete stuff from the middle of it; You can't write stuff at any random place at any random time and have it appear in your workplace; cutting and pasting involves actual scissors and glue...

Paper is a lot of extra work for the only gain to pretend you are doing something simple.

mempko• 2 years ago

I've been using supernote, it's pretty much paper.

snowstormsun• 2 years ago

vim + markdown files <3

Sirikon• 2 years ago

If a friend asks me how to get organised, I always tell them to use pen and paper as a first step.

You might use it just for a day or two, but something clicks in your head, you find your workflow, and now you’re able to use more specialised tools.

thibaultamartin• 2 years ago

Paper is a sturdy tool; it doesn’t run out of battery, it’s interoperable… it beats apps in many aspects.

But as soon as you need automation, it’s a different story. I couldn’t rely only on paper notes to keep track of my work.

Obsidian has been very useful to keep track of my list of tasks and report what I’m doing. I would spend much more time doing all that with paper.

Details of my setup at https://ergaster.org/posts/2024/07/16-obsidian-contractor/

pillefitz• 2 years ago

Flagging emails as "to be read later", keeping track of responses I'm waiting for, reminders, ... all tricky to do when using paper.

agiron123• 2 years ago

Love this.

I sit here at my desk with post it notes scattered everywhere, organizing my thoughts and things to do for the day. Something about being able to physically move them around and cross things off just makes it easier for my brain to work.

The problem with this workflow is getting it into the apps that I use to organize my life. These change from time to time, but Sunsama is the clear winner for me at the moment.

PostIt has a great app to use your camera to organize your notes.

I've also found that Apple's FreeForm has a fantastic feature for scanning. Over the weekend I scanned hundreds of old post-it notes of mine that I was trying to declutter, yet some of them had important thoughts that I wanted to stash for later. I used Freeform to scan all my notes.

Next up I'll try feeding this to a model and see if it can organize my notes and create action items from them.

Come to think of it, I could have done none of this and just organized the notes by hand while scanning them :)

Maybe I should try turning my computer off next time and just thinking before I do something.

Bedon2922• 2 years ago

I have tried various ways to deal with organizing thoughts and tasks, and always end up spending too much time trying to optimize and make the system better when I do it in a digital way. For me, it seems like it is better to just disconnect from the electronics and do it by hand.

aught2• 2 years ago

I love the postit app. Happy to see it mentioned

kepano• 2 years ago

There's only one method of doing to-dos that has worked for me. This method can be used with paper, Obsidian, Apple Notes, or any other app.

Every week I create a weekly note, and write my to-dos for the week. I may add more items to it during the week. If any items didn’t get done I roll them over to the next weekly note or drop them. That’s it.

I usually write my to-dos from scratch without looking at the previous week’s list. This helps me decide which items I should drop. If I can’t remember a to-do it probably wasn’t that important.

ejs• 2 years ago

I do the same, and I'll probably automate it soon since I use a fresh markdown doc.

The only thing that remains the same is the header has 'yearly goals'.

It's easy and I can jettison the previous week's unfinished tasks (hey they didn't get done so were they really important?).

SubiculumCode• 2 years ago

There is only one method that works, and it is whichever one you have somehow managed to actually do on a routine basis.

lbittner• 2 years ago

Check out the app called "Tweek". Its exactly what you described here with very little extra fluff.

al_borland7• 2 years ago

Also NotePlan (on the various Apple platforms). Can go by day, week, month, and year, with files stored in a directory of markdown files.

Edit…

I just looked at Tweek, it seems more similar to TeuxDeux, than NotePlan. But NotePlan seems more like what the grandparent was talking about (at least in my interpretation).

t_mann2• 2 years ago

Why not a single, permanent file?

mattnewton• 2 years ago

Not the op, but I do this too because looking at most of the list and deciding what gets copied over is necessary to remove stale items.

(It also creates snapshots that roughly show if the list is growing much faster than things are being done and signals I need to shed load)

al_borland7• 2 years ago

I find history useful. What did I do last week? When did I work on project X?

EasyMark• 2 years ago

Ihave a simple “note” on my iPhone and I do similar thing with, I reevaluate if I really need to do it and if I do I roll it over, otherwise it gets deleted. Between this and my calendar list, I try to simplify lol

winternett• 2 years ago

Writing notes only on paper in a properly secured notebook is about to make a big comeback as more and more people realize that it's fast becoming the only way to prevent AI/ML from indexing and leaking their original IP to the corporate world. Sending an email or making a social media or discord post is fast becoming the best way to snitch out your ideas to random unknown parties and IP thieves.

iwontberude• 2 years ago

I have heard it is also how NSA secure their personal passwords, they keep them in a little black book because there is no scalable attack to get access to them at rest.

walterbell2• 2 years ago

snitch out your ideas

s/ideas/canaries/

https://canarytokens.org/

al_borland7• 2 years ago

This is the only thing that works for me as well.

At work I do it daily, and also have a notes section. That way I can go to any day (in Obsidian’s calendar) and see what I did that day if/when needed. I also have a fresh scratch pad each day instead of a giant tab in my editor that holds onto things for months or years without context. Reminders kind of work as well. If I’m doing something today that needs follow up in 2 weeks, I pre-make a placeholder note for 2 weeks from now with the to do, and when I get to that day I see it.

It took me about 15 years trying every tool and system under the sun, and then I stumbled across doing this organically based on what I felt I needed. It’s been going good for several years now, which is something I’ve never been able to say before. That said, I’d be lost without the calendar view, it’s very helpful for me.

At home, I tried this, but it’s too granular. I tried weekly, that even seemed too granular. I’m at the point where when I feel like getting some stuff done, I make a list, and keep that list until it’s done (or things age to the point they don’t matter). Then some time goes by until I need another one.

wyclif• 2 years ago

BallerToDo is pretty nifty if you want something simple and web-based that uses the Eisenhower Matrix: https://ballertodo.com/

zooi• 2 years ago

I've tried many note taking methods, including paper, and none of it really fit my needs. So I wrote my own application, just for me, with nobody else in mind. It's perfect and I recommend everyone to do the same.

bprater• 2 years ago

Try different writing devices, too. I love gel pens and mechanical pencils.

OldGuyInTheClub• 2 years ago

I tried to keep a simple table in Apple Notes and it got frustrating, fast. Couldn't control formatting and it would randomly change font sizes. Looked at alternatives and was confronted with more complexity - looks like notes are just the entry point to mindmaps/braindumps/network diagrams of thought processes. Creating a table in Markdown is even less fun that creating it in Notes.

Now I just track my blood pressure on paper.

hughesjj• 2 years ago

I've got one of those withings with Bluetooth, loving it so far

bee_rider• 2 years ago

I tried but I can’t figure out how to call the compiler on my hand-written notes.

I actually think it would be really interesting, if I could point a camera at my notes and somehow have it spit out a Matlab code or something like that. But I’m not sure how it would work. It would need to understand at least that the things in the brackets are sub-matrices…

viraptor2• 2 years ago

Listing the simplest apps, down to Apple Notes as complicated has got to be a troll.

I'm sure there are people who prefer paper for good reasons. But there are no reasons with justifications listed here. Just a very short personal opinion.

015a2• 2 years ago

Tbh I don't assign weight to anyone with the opinion that Apple Reminders is too complicated.

arabello• 2 years ago

I prefer paper when I need to reason deeply, with drafts and schemes. Once my thoughts on paper mean something, I organize them digitally.

simonw• 2 years ago

If my organizational systems aren't backed up to the internet they're useless to me.

I use Apple Notes for scratch notes and GitHub Issues for everything else and I couldn't be happier.

acyou• 2 years ago

Paper is good if you are solo. I tried Notion, waiting inside the grocery store 30 seconds for it to boot up or load or update or whatever on mobile, gave up on it for day to day tasks. Google Keep is still king. Am I going to be able to consistently pull down a text file from a server on mobile? How will I share a paper shopping list with others?

What cheap hosted service should I be using that lets me CRUD my text files on mobile + desktop and share with others?

piva002• 2 years ago

How will I share a paper shopping list with others?

I usually send a picture of it to my partner.

BlueTemplar3• 2 years ago

Which even works without an Internet access !

aatarax• 2 years ago

Paper is great for transient stuff that is relevant for at most a week or two, but it really goes downhill when you try to capture information you'll want to revisit in the future. Paper is great for todo lists and in the moment notes, but not so great for knowledge base building.

I used to struggle with a lot of tools before too and now use org-roam for longer term notes. The linking model helps a lot with just _writing_ the stuff down and not worrying about how to organize it too much in the moment.

brcmthrowaway• 2 years ago

What about the reMARKABLE 2?

switchbak• 2 years ago

Paper is great, but good lord I tire of these "Just do X", "Stop doing Y", "Z considered harmful", kind of posts. So overconfident and devoid of context, this shit gets really old after a while. Reminds me of JWZ or (gack) Zed Shaw.

I LOVE paper. I also like whiteboards. I also like being able to search through my megabytes of notes for something silly I was wrestling with 2.5 years ago. It might be in a TODO list even. I'm messy, I don't care to try to organize such things, but (rip) grepping still provides value. I don't want to "just use fucking $ANYTHING", thanks very much, man.

fragmede• 2 years ago

I have a remarkable for this. because yeah, just use paper, but like, we live in the future

allenu2• 2 years ago

I still use digital tools for documenting my projects and keeping track of long-term tasks, but I agree with the author that papers just fucking works for most things. I sketch out designs on paper. I treat as an ephemeral medium.

Lately I’ve taken to jotting down lists of things on my mind on index cards so I can carry those around and refer to them without the distraction of a phone. The nice thing is that space is limited, so I can’t take on too much at a time. Constraints are a good thing.

deltarholamda• 2 years ago

Now we can have a robust debate on the best paper and writing utensils! Some will advocate for top-spiral notebooks, some composition books, others will proclaim nothing beats a Moleskine.

Then the fight moves to pens vs. pencils. Fountain pens and carpenter's pencils will slug it out for supremacy in the comments. One lone maniac will die on the quill hill.

0823498723498722• 2 years ago

wax tablet? (much better write endurance than paper)

6510• 2 years ago

I haven't tried it but clay seems pretty cool.

aught2• 2 years ago

you can try to pry my fountain pen out of my cold dead hands

thx• 2 years ago

I use Apple Notes but it drives me sooo crazy that you can’t left/right swipe between Notes

How is that even possible

galleywest200• 2 years ago

My regularly sweaty hands say that digital notes are great. My non-home-owning self says that not carrying around boxes upon boxes of my notes for review later in life is the way to go.

BenFranklin100• 2 years ago

If I didn’t have to travel regularly I would use paper. Next best thing is OneNote with a tablet/iPad and pen. Just set it up like you would with a bunch of paper notebooks. Searchable, flexible, and lightweight. Obsidian/Notion sounds great but are rigid.

My only nod to electronic organization is a simple todo app like Things or Todoist.

algebra-pretext• 2 years ago

For todo lists, I agree and at most a plaintext file or the Reminders app on your phone is enough. For daily notes though I feel like Obsidian is only as complex as you want it to be. My vault for work notes is mainly a haphazard bunch of copy-pasted snippets and chat records pasted in an auto-dated daily note, and it's saved me a bunch of times when I've needed to go back and search something.

mnky9800n• 2 years ago

As a scientist I keep organized in the following ways:

* I text myself on slack random idea I have about various projects

* I regularly use a white board to write down the current state of all my projects, where they are at, what needs to be done

* I have a notebook that I write todos in for day to day things

Also these things are basically interchangeable. I have had several different thoughts about how to make a better organisation system through software. But so far I didn't come up with one that i would abandon my research to spend the time writing organisational software instead.

fitsumbelay• 2 years ago

I grew up taking copious handwritten notes and making pencil-to-pen sketches so I get it but sometimes markdown's just as fast for list making and edits are no-mess. The closest I've found to the two is the Boogie Board but IMHO as far as being its best self -- some temp/limited storage, levels of undo, maaaaaybe cut-n-paste? -- it's still about a microcontroller hack or addition away from awesomeness. At any rate, perhaps the headline could be dialed back to "Just use f-ing paper (for now), man"?

danfunk• 2 years ago

100 percent agree. I keep a todo list, in a notebook, copy undone items over every two or three days to a fresh list. It reminds me what's not getting done. It is easy to look at. I feel a sense of accomplishment. It reduces my stress to put an item on the list for later. I can look at non digital, simple, complete synopsis of my work and get an instant gauge on how things are going.

ilamont• 2 years ago

I once worked for a founder who used paper lists. The guy was a billionaire in a very advanced field, but his office workflow was based on a small sheet of note paper with crossed-out tasks.

At the time, I used Wunderlist (later To-Do) for work and home lists. I also had a simple scratch pad in a text editor as well as PDAs prior to that.

I came back to paper. In the 90s, before I got a PDA, it was a small black notebook I kept in my pocket. These days I use printer paper. I start with a blank sheet on Monday, copy over the stuff from the previous week that I didn't complete, and then add new items for the week. On the right margin, I make notes of longer-term projects and invoices to send out, as well as some "home" to-dos usually relating to kids.

I find it's easier to add new items without opening up an app and navigating to the right file. I can also jot down quick notes or facts or phone numbers without having to go through clicks and keyboard shortcuts and arrow keys.

If I'm on the road, I'll use a text file on my laptop. I also still use To Do for a few personal lists (like recipes) but it's no longer part of my daily work routine.

malux85• 2 years ago

The problem that I have with paper is refactoring.

Creating my todo list, investor update lists, company admin info, idea explorations, and everything else always involves me evolving the idea continuously and shifting things about as the structure changes.

With paper this means using an eraser until I end up with a crumpled mess, or laboriously rewriting it all over and over.

I like the tactile nature of paper, if only I could select chunks by dragging and erase (fully) without wrecking it.

gspencley• 2 years ago

I like the tactile nature of paper, if only I could select chunks by dragging and erase (fully) without wrecking it.

I'm not seriously suggesting that you do this, but the term "cut & paste" originated from a concept that predates digital text editing ;)

mkatx• 2 years ago

I get it, but had to move away from paper.. the simple fact that you cannot move stuff around without erasing stuff leads to disjointed notes.

For when I need to write by hand, I moved to a reMarkable digital tablet. For notes, I've been experimenting with obsidian/logseq, and it's been going good. For task management , I gotta recommend Super Productivity, it's just fantastic.

I just couldn't live the sticky note life anymore...

dunefox5• 2 years ago

I love paper, but it's difficult for me to organise the notes properly, I have no search function, screenshots, links, endless canvas, etc.

I already own a Remarkable 2 but I really don't like it - it's not much more than an e-ink college block. After almost two years they added the function to draw straight lines, meanwhile I still can't search in handwritten notes - not even after converting them to text. You can add tags and the search works for them, but don't add a tag and you won't easily find the page.

So, I'm thinking about buying the Samsung Tab s9+ for studying math and sumerian, but generally also for planning. I find just having all my notes, pdfs, etc. with me, combined with smart features like search is invaluable.

xp842• 2 years ago

I’m an incredibly satisfied owner of the Galaxy Tab S7 here, and I recommend that product line.

I’m also a primarily “Apple” household but the iPad’s multitasking is absurd, whereas with DeX mode you get a full windowing system that works sanely. I love my Tab :)

Also I’m pretty sure that it came with the S pen in the box - which works super well. A joy to write with.

dunefox5• 2 years ago

I'm only waiting for the s10+ to be released, so that I can maybe get a discount on the s9+ (currently ~850€). Yeah, the pen is included, which is great compared to the iPad. Can you recommend apps for note taking?

There's a paper-like screen addon by Samsung that apparently provides a similar writing feel as the Remarkable or paper - I might get that as well.

nunez2• 2 years ago

iPad Pro for handwriting is god tier. Can't do better IMO.

dunefox5• 2 years ago

If only it was affordable.

al_borland7• 2 years ago

I ordered a Daylight tablet. I’m still waiting for it to ship. I’m hoping for a good reading and writing experience, with the benefit of rich options for apps vs just what comes from the OEM, like with Remarkable.

dunefox5• 2 years ago

That looks interesting, I've never heard of it. I'm definitely looking forward to reviews.

BlueTemplar3• 2 years ago

E-ink tablets come in all kinds of functionalities :

https://ewritable.com/best-e-ink-tablets/#Best_Dedicated_Not...

[...]
The native note-taking software has some really nice and unique features that I find really useful. For example, when I start a new page, I write the title at the top, and then lasso-select it and turn it into a heading and the Supernote automatically builds me a Table of Contents based on my headings. I can also draw a five-pointed star anywhere on the canvas to mark the page as important and then do a search for all my stars so that I can action them. There is a touch-sensitive swipe bar on the right-hand bezel which brings up a quick access menu whatever I am doing so that I can quickly flick between notebooks and documents. And the handwriting search feature is supremely fast.
[...]

dunefox5• 2 years ago

Supernote was the alternative to the RM2, but the RM2 was bought by my workplace - I would have preferred the Supernote due to exactly these features. It's not just a fancy college block.

I think a new version of the A5 is coming out this or next year, but they're generally pretty expensive - almost as expensive as the Samsung Tab.

_emacsomancer_• 2 years ago

I think "use paper" is good for lots of things. But if I'm trying to quickly make notes of lots of things, I end up not being able to find things. Org-roam (or some other similar system) is what I've found to be a good substitute for paper.

The thing about both paper and Org-roam/Emacs, is that it's under your own control, and can be tailored to meet your own actual needs, not how someone else thinks you should do things. That's where Apple Notes etc. fall down.

QuantumGood• 2 years ago

Workflowy is also good, keeps getting better. Used it for many years with a small team, but mostly for myself.

_g0wg2• 2 years ago

I'm also an org-roam and paper guy, but I've designed my system to be platform-agnostic. It's all in the naming conventions.

Files are named hierarchically with periods. I have top-level categories that have changed little over the years. `con.` for concepts, `lit.` for documents, `proj.` for projects... you get the point, I'm not listing all of them unless someone really just wants me to.

My go-to example is always Star Wars. `lore.sw` is my top-level Star Wars note. I also have `lore.sw.chron` which is the chronological watching order. There's also `game.sw` which contains a list of Star Wars games I've found.

This extends to non-note files as well. For images of something I use `.img.[date].#.[ext]`, so for example I have some pictures of my cat named `ppl.neck.img.2024.03.15.1.raw`. I have a video of him murdering a bird too, `ppl.neck.vid.2024.05.22.murdering-a-bird.mp4`... As you can see, sometimes I replace the number with a nice title.

The modularity of it all is great. I can add anything anywhere at any point in the hierarchy without having to re-name things. I name things exactly what they are. The hierarchy can be sparse, parent notes don't have to exist. I can name something `stuff.something.i-dont-know.gif` without having any notes for `stuff.` or `stuff.something.`

I have notes on paper as well, and they use the same system, with the hierarchical name printed in bold at the top of the paper. `self.passwords` is a paper note for obvious reasons. I also keep most of my `sys.internal.` documentation on paper because my computer might not work when I need it most, though a lot of them do have computer versions which I just print out when I change because it's too much to write by hand.

_g0wg2• 2 years ago

Replying to my own comment here. I decided to list all of the top-level categories because it's something I'm kind of proud of, as it seems to be able to categorize anything I can throw at it:

agenda.: single file, my main TODO. I can also add `.agenda.` anywhere in any hierarchy to make a topic-specific agenda.

archive.: I just slap `archive.` on the front of any filename I want to archive.

con.: notes about concepts

cook.: my cookbook

film.: movies, shows, etc.. Contains both notes and actual films

game.: game notes, downloads, old versions, mod version archive, skins, settings exports, etc.

grp.: social groups, movements, governments, companies, religions, etc. Mostly notes from school and research from work, but some political stuff too.

home.: my house

inbox.: single note, anything can go in here for later processing if I'm feeling lazy

journal.: journal, organized by date (journal.2024.08.27). Hasn't been used in years.

lang.: languages of all kinds; spoken, programming, everything. There's `lang.lisp` next to `lang.latin`

lit.: literature, documents, etc.. Organized as `lit.author.series.document.chapter`. I have a lot of books.

log.: logs, never used this one actually

lore.: research about fictional worlds (I'm into worldbuilding)

meta.: about this collection

music.: playlist dumps, song downloads

ppl.: people

prod.: products

proj.: projects

school.: school stuff, organized as `school.institution.course.unit.chapter.assignment.document`

self.: me

social.: social media

soft.: software

sys.: my systems

veh.: my vehicles

Bonus: I also have `woodheart.` for my worldbuilding project, which contains a copy of most of the above categories within it.

GFischer• 2 years ago

You have somehow reinvented the USENET organization method :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#Organization

IAmGraydon• 2 years ago

For personal to-do lists, I just use the Notes app on iOS.

cheema33• 2 years ago

Like many others here I use paper for short term stuff. I use a small 5x7 spiral notebook with a #2 pencil. Anything that is not a very short-term todo item, goes in Obsidian.

I do love Obsidian. I am sad I did not discover it sooner and suffered through OneNote.

mrichman• 2 years ago

Ctrl+F doesn't work in a notebook, and I can't paste in screenshots.

kjkjadksj• 2 years ago

and I can't paste in screenshots.

Well, you literally could

MissTake• 2 years ago

Everyone is different and what works for one person, will be an abject failure for another.

Not sure why the OP feels the need to be so vehement in their opinion.

jp191919• 2 years ago

Tasks app from F-droid for to-dos, and Nextcloud Notes for the notes

system22• 2 years ago

Things I tried:

-Actual physical whiteboard

-Notepads (moleskine, amazon branded notepad, all colors, fancy stuff that is $20+)

-Obsidian with a bunch of plugins including Exalidraw (I wish flowcharting could be easier but still sucks compared to yED)

-Google Keep (I use it on my iPhone and sync with my computer when needed. I only use it before homedepot or some hardware store shopping. I don't use lists for grocery)

-One Note

-Wacom Intuos Pro with other 3rd party drawing / note taking apps

-My own website (Wordpress with notetaking plugin to have it on the "cloud")

-Perfex CRM

-Asana (still use it for client projects with limited access to them)

-My own Kanban mutation

-Microsoft Notepad in a dedicated folder for notes (was probably the longest-running among all other methods)

-yED Graph (still use it for client presentations with basic flowcharts)

-Google Calendar with excessive notes

-365 Word With fancy plugins

-Notepad++ since it doesn't delete if I don't save the document (MS Notepad brought it with win11 though)

Nothing worked out but I am forcing myself to use Obsidian in a Dedicated monitor and never move it. I think I am getting close to liking it. I don't know what's wrong. These apps are SO CLUTTERED. And real paper is not searchable. I have a shelf dedicated to 1/5 used notepads.

Additionally, I thought I didn't like writing with a pen. Then I dedicated a very good chunk of my life to finding the perfect pen. So far G2 and Jetstream are my favorites. I used zebra in the early 2010s because I thought "If police are using it, it must be good". It wasn't that good. I needed flow.

patrickmay• 2 years ago

Since you've tried almost everything else, I recommend Things 3 if Obsidian doesn't work out for you. It's the simplest of the ones I've tried other than paper.

system22• 2 years ago

It appears to be for apple only. I am a win/linux guy, unfortunately.

Animats• 2 years ago

Next we'll see people wanting filing cabinets.

dingnuts• 2 years ago

yeah sure let me write important Jira links into a notebook by hand, that'll be better than keeping them in a plain text file

behiri• 2 years ago

I use org mode for personal note taking and todo lists, and it has been working very well for me. for projects I put a TODO.org inside the docs folder and any TODO and bugfixes goes there (a simple todo.txt can do the same)

paper has never worked for me, it's hard to keep track of it and others can easily read it.

arkaic• 2 years ago

I have a todo.txt for work, but otherwise, I just Google Keep for everything. Not gonna have my physical notebook everywhere with me as I go, so I need something cloud based. Keep is just simple AF to use. No rich text editing or anything more complIcated than a checklist.

whack• 2 years ago

This would have been perfect if the author had written the essay on paper and then uploaded a picture of it. What a missed opportunity

unsignedint2• 2 years ago

Aside from my notoriously illegible handwriting (which becomes even worse after just a few seconds, but more on that later), my main gripe with using paper is that I end up with smudges all over my hand—being left-handed doesn’t help. The smudging often makes my already hard-to-read handwriting even more of a mess. (This issue even contributed to my struggles in English classes back then.)

These days, the only time I use pen and paper is during language interpretation sessions. It helps me retain very short-term memory, but afterward, I can hardly make sense of any of the notes I took.

For everything else, I rely on apps. I currently use OneNote. I've tried various solutions, but I found OneNote strikes the best balance between online and offline functionality—it’s saved me many times in situations with spotty or slow international roaming.

BlueTemplar3• 2 years ago

Get a different brand of fountain pen recharges ?

Use a pencil instead ??

unsignedint2• 2 years ago

Well, fountain pens are actually worse for lefties because the "push" motion tends to tear the paper. If only there were truly functional, smudge-free inks! While some brands claim to be "smudge-free," they don’t dry quickly enough to prevent smudging from a lefty’s own hand—they seem more focused on preventing smudges from other objects rather than the writer's hand.

As for pencils, they’re not much better than pens in this regard. The smudging issue persists, just in a different form.

clircle• 2 years ago

I don’t understand how note taking is such an impassioned subject on this site.

But fwiw, what works for me is to have notes everywhere. I take notes in a journal, ephemeral notepad, emails, texts to myself, apple notes, and orgmode. I just want to have lots of accessibility.

carlosjobim• 2 years ago

I don’t understand how note taking is such an impassioned subject on this site.

Neurotic people thinking that they are going to organize their existence on this earth.

allenu2• 2 years ago

It (note-taking tools) really is a big thing among this cohort. I think there’s this deep belief that if you just had the right organizational system, you could get more done and be more productive. Having gone down that line of thinking before, I get the appeal, though I think it’s overrated when it comes to actually being productive. But man it feels good to play with new toys.

piva002• 2 years ago

Can echo the feeling, it's magical thinking that "only if I had the perfect organisational system I'd unlock my potential". It's a trap, and I fell for it for a while when I was younger.

Nowadays I gave up on all the Notion/Evernote/orgmode/whatever-tool-someone-is-peddling with systems of systems, tagging, etc. to organise oneself.

I realised after getting a bit older that pen and paper is the system that works for me, just a nice notebook, without pressure to use it for everything, no rigid system but a system that organically evolved for myself; keep it accessible wherever I'm that I might need to take notes, and it just flows while being easy to use for myself.

I think that looking for the perfect amazing organisational system is just another form of procrastination. I'm very happy for the people who manage to have found a very neat system for themselves, searchable, available on every device, etc., but it's not for me.

WOTERMEON• 2 years ago

I think it’s caused by being stressed. We hope to find a simple solution from being overwhelmed.

omoikane• 2 years ago

I believe it's a form of bikeshedding[1]. Not everyone might be experts on AI or gaussian splats or whatever, but taking notes -- everyone did that, so everyone can comment on that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikeshedding

bengale3• 2 years ago

Obsessive organisation can be a form of procrastination.

al_borland7• 2 years ago

I think it’s a common shared problem and everyone is looking for the no-compromises solution.

For me…

- One trusted place for all the notes (something that the stuff everywhere model lacks… things get lost or end up being hard to find)

- Portable, avoiding lock-in. The assumption is the usefulness of the notes will outlive any closed platform.

- Multiplatform, with sync. To make it easy to have that one trusted place, and it always be accessible.

- Modern features… can’t sketch too well in markdown and embedding stuff is tedious and doesn’t seem like it will scale well over time without tooling. But tooling brings back the lock-in issue.

And probably some other stuff. The perfect system doesn’t really exist. Compromises need to be made. Each person makes different concessions, while many of us jump from tool to tool, system to system, hoping to have it all, but ultimately living with constant pain and disappointment.

I’ve given up. I’m use Obsidian and work and the Apple stuff at home. If/when I need to migrate off Apple, I’ll deal with it then. Switching every few months sucks.

tgaj• 2 years ago

I think that's because a lot of Hacker News readers are autistic and/or ADHD (I am). As autistic I love to catalog things and as ADHD sufferer I need notes to be able to function in the modern works.

jarbus• 2 years ago

I literally just use a giant text file for everything, with only a specialized vim macro for inserting the date.

Almondsetat• 2 years ago

Has the author considered you can just write on a tablet with a supported pen?

neuralRiot• 2 years ago

Writing notes by hand helps rembering them.

mdotk• 2 years ago

Emails to myself and snoozing combined with inbox-zero.

rerdavies• 2 years ago

Obviously written by somebody who never experienced the Peak-Paper complexity of task management using DayTimer organizers. The curse of having to carry your 5"x7" $150 leather-bound personal planner with $200/yr worth of planning pages which did not fit in your pocket everywhere you went...

This way leads to madness!

nunez2• 2 years ago

I don't understand why Notion is so damn popular. It's a textbook example of "jack of all trades; master of none."

It has databases that allow you to create many different views of things, but actually using this capability is one of the most frustrating things ever. No keyboard shortcuts; actions that you'd typically do in Excel don't work here; every table is its own page, even when it doesn't need to be; and so on.

You can also create a plain old table within Notion, but all of the complaints above apply here. Why even have a table object when it's going to just be a gimped database?

It has static web page hosting built in, but so does Confluence and other wikis.

If you try to use Notion off-line, it randomly won't show you changes until you're back online.

---

That said, paper is great for worm (write once, read many) type data but is inflexible and really difficult to search through later.

Journaling is a great example.

It is easy and tempting to start with a paper journal. Feels more personal and connected. However, when you want to know how you felt on this day five years ago, or you want to find a pattern to explain moods that don't make sense, you'll spend ages sifting through notebooks. That's assuming that you haven't lost them.

Apps work so much better here.

I started journaling in 2014 but started journaling _daily_ after discovering Daylio in 2021. I use Day One now.

I regret not having used an app for this everyday.

There are so many moments of my life that I lost or don't remember very well because I wanted to "handwrite my journals" despite, often, not having the time to do so. Journaling has helped me understand why I feel things and when and gave me a great first step towards fixing them.

I will say that trying to modify a table in Notion makes me want to throw my Mac into the ocean and go back to paper and briefcases.

stranded22• 2 years ago

I tried many times to like Notion but it is far too complicated for my needs. It felt like procrastination, a tech version of a bullet journal. Spending too much time designing the system, and not enough actually using it. It felt like there was too much potential and flexibility, if that's possible - whilst being really crap at what I was looking for (todo list with notifications / offline personal document storage).

So its ticktick + one note (used to have Evernote until they mucked it up).

I've tried journaling but never feel like I have enough interesting things to document. Have you tried Apple Journal? Do you have templates you recommend?

nrr2• 2 years ago

"It felt like procrastination, a tech version of a bullet journal." There's a lot out there that certainly falls under what I call "procrasturbation," but the Bullet Journal is ironically the thing I've stuck with the longest. Ryder Carroll came up with a formalization of the concept more recently, but I've been using it since 1999, prompted by the removal of our backpacks due to Columbine.

I think the thing that a lot of folks miss is that it's a framework that's meant to grow incrementally with how you go through life and work.

Without a bag to keep everything together, I got tired of misplacing my notebooks, one for each class, so I started living out of only one at a time, which then led me to set up a sort of table of contents and numbered pages so I could find things. It also let me cope with my as-yet-undiagnosed OCD and ADHD by giving me the permission just to start at whatever page and treat the bound pages as a linked list instead of an array. (Bonus: the table of contents became a sort of allocation bitmap.)

Homework due dates and holidays and birthdays begat calendars of various sorts, inconsistent study habits begat habit trackers, notes from class meetings begat dailies wherein I braindump about whatever, etc., but none of that happened overnight. It built up over months to years.

Journaling is about the stuff you want to remember later so that you can reflect on it. Most of my entries involve doting on my cats (so many days where I'm just like, "Valérian was an aggressively cuddly purrbucket again" or "Laureline brought me another sock from the hamper") and, like, "on a lark, I dug out my old ThinkPad to find it actually isn't inoperative."

perihelion_zero• 2 years ago

Endless mountain of todo lists on desk: Index cards. Put them in a box when there are too many and let the unreasonable goals expire. (Optional: Trade them with your friends after a year.)

Personal notes: A waterproof mini-notepad.

Personal notes I don't care about: Sticky notes.

Movie scripts, math problems, and complex functional diagrams: A full-size sheet of paper taken from the nearest printer.

This comment sent from my Sticky Pad 5.

bitbasher• 2 years ago

I have always found pen and paper to be far more satisfying to check things off and it brings clarity better than a digital note or Kanban board.

I use a single sheet of paper every day. I write down 2-4 things I want to get done that day and any small tasks I need to do (ie, reply to x email).

The rest of the paper is for notes or thoughts throughout the day.

At the end of the day I take a new sheet of paper and write the next days tasks and notes. I then toss the old page in the trash.

Every. Fucking. Day.

Works like magic.

fortran77• 2 years ago

I use paper for my daily to-do. I take a 3x5 index card and write what I need to do that day.

If I can't fit it on the card, I know I don't have a chance to get it all done; in this way it's self-limiting.

nightowl_games• 2 years ago

I literally just have a single text document called todo.md that I write the date and what I want to do in it and then cross it out when im done.

its good for remember what I was working on yesterday to keep a smooth continuitity. Helps me get 'back on task' quick.

Its seriously just a single document with like 5 bullet points in it each day. I barely ever scroll down. Latest day is always at the top.

jcul• 2 years ago

I agree on using paper, it's the only thing that works for me.

But I use a rocket book so I'm not going through endless notepads and can optionally backup to PDF.

bengale3• 2 years ago

I try and keep it simple. Little reporter notebook so I’m not using devices in meetings and things like that.

Then I transcribe whatever needs to be a little more long term at the end of the day/week into either Apple notes or reminders. Then rip the pages out and bin them.

Im tempted to get something like todoist to organise reminders a little better but I’m cautious that it’s the road to procrastinating.

al_borland7• 2 years ago

Im tempted to get something like todoist to organise reminders a little better but I’m cautious that it’s the road to procrastinating.

Don’t do it. I’ve been down that road. Giving up and simply using Apple Note/Reminders is so much easier. I envy people who just use the first thing that falls in their lap and go with it. It’s all good enough. Nothing is that much better to make it worth the hunt.

bengale3• 2 years ago

Yeah I was thinking the same tbh, I don't want to end up forever tweaking things.

Beijinger• 2 years ago

I use simplenote.com with the nvpy client. Both are free.

fancyfredbot2• 2 years ago

Paper. Then take a photo of it (*) Then use a serverless lambda to OCR it and store it in a vector database. Then use speech recognition and RAG to display it wherever you discuss anything related. Simple and effective. Sorted. You are welcome.

(*) Ideally use Google glass or another always on camera here

RockRobotRock2• 2 years ago

I’m not saying this is a bad idea but it’s hilarious given the point of the post is to uncomplicate note taking.

fancyfredbot2• 2 years ago

It was intended as satire but reading it back now it's not sufficiently far fetched. Says something that the craziest comment I could think of can easily be mistaken for a serious suggestion, but maybe it says more about me than anything else.

dallas• 2 years ago

A low-overhead bullet journal (i.e. zero time spent to make it look pretty) works best for me - preaching to the choir, man!

ChristopherDrum• 2 years ago

I use the BOOX NoteAir, just to keep from having a dozen scattered notebooks and having to replenish the paper/ink supply. I use it just like paper. I don't do any handwriting recognition or anything, and at most will split ideas off into their own notebooks. Personally, I've found that it is the act of writing things down, more so than the act of looking through notebook archives, that helps me with retention and creativity. The VERY IMPORTANT THINGS are kept on a whiteboard I look at multiple times a day, because I WILL FORGET dates and appointments (and I'll forget to put them into an alarm on my phone, and I'll dismiss those alarms multiple times and re-forget) no matter how critically important it may be. So the whiteboard keeps those items literally in my face.

iancmceachern• 2 years ago

Fountain pens are awesome, if your keen to try something new.

jaredcwhite• 2 years ago

I think you're onto something! I'm still on-device because I joke that I'm allergic to paper (seriously, I actively dislike the experience of using pen & paper…just a me thing I guess), but I've basically taken a similar route lately of just having a very small collection of Markdown files and I simply jot stuff down in them, check things off, and then delete bits that aren't relevant. Sync via Dropbox and away you go.

Plain text is enormously useful, as it turns out, and the fewer bells & whistles, the better!

vlark• 2 years ago

I've been using a pocket notebook for a while now: https://fieldnotesbrand.com

pipeline_peak• 2 years ago

Google Keep is best for to do lists. It’s as simple as you want and supports checkboxes, photos, recordings and drawings.

And of course, it’s cloud based and not restricted to only Google platforms. Something Apple will never swallow their pride for no matter how simple the product.

thecleaner• 2 years ago

I mean I use remember the milk for remembering things, something computers are great at. Then I just make little slots in my calendar where I do one todo item. If something is unclear, I make a todo item to generate something actionable. All my meetings sync automatically with an app which creates alarms for everything. So far this system has worked great. I still use paper if I want to batch stuff and finish related items quickly.

partomniscient• 2 years ago

There's a different Andy Bell who fixes everything by adding more guitar pedals.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK• 2 years ago

I use a special Telegram chat for Todo lists, this way I can share it with my assistant, and I can use speech to text to add items.

gloosx• 2 years ago

Super agree here, I went through countless software solutions but just few months ago I decided to buy a small paper notebook and a pen. It feels really damn different. Almost something magical clicks when you engrave those cellulose sheets with ink giving more mechanical attention to every letter, word and sentence, instead of hammering it down on a keyboard. Noticed that I'm really much more attached to the manual kind of writing, and I value and follow the paper more than files. Maybe because they are real and tangible after all.

sydbarrett74• 2 years ago

TL;dr: Use what works for you.

jiehong• 2 years ago

Agreed.

Use either todo notebook [1] or a todo card [2] and voila.

[1] https://www.jetpens.com/Paperian-Make-a-Memo-Sticky-Notes-To.....

[2] https://www.jetpens.com/Paperian-Make-a-Memo-Sticky-Notes-To.....

aunwick• 2 years ago

It's hard to reproduce in digital the feeling of checking off the last to-do on a page, ripping it out, balling it up and then making a 3 point trashketball shot to close out a week.

lycopodiopsida• 2 years ago

I use Org-mode because it is simple *and* capable - still just plain text, synced over iCloud, workflow can be as complex or as simple as I need it.

On the other side, I have some years of GTD practice and know, that tools themself matter little for productivity. I have some minimal feature-set I expect to be there, like some kind of daily outline and priorities and I don't care about the rest. Omnifocus is nice, but I barely use it on mobile devices, beorg is sufficent. Know you needs and don't go more complex than that.

kkfx• 2 years ago

Org-mode for notes, because notes tend to have variable meaningful life sometimes till the entire human life, so I need a stable tool and Emacs is definitively one, not a service who might disappear or change terms suddenly, no matter if I still have my data, missing the tool to use it my way, and well, that's enough for me.

For basic todos like "buy the milk" I've tried for a little time Home Assistant tasks, very basic more comfy than Orgzly, but I do not need much of such lists so... I do not much feel the need of anything special. I've used of course in the past paper notes, I tend to forget them when used as reminder so they are not better for this specific usage, while I still have a small A7 notebook for sudden things to note when I'm not at the desktop.

krick• 2 years ago

I didn't even like using pen in school. Now I get annoyed and aggressive when asked to fill my data at the hotel check-in desk myself.

grumpy-cowboy• 2 years ago

If I need to make some research for a project, I keep my findings on my computer (publicly available knowledge, facts, ..).

BUT I keep all my new ideas, thinking, todos, agenda, ... offline (analog) to prevent AI tools reading them and sending it back to big corps. I keep them in a Filofax so it's easy to shuffle/insert/... pages if required.

I work in IT since 1995 (now 15 years as a freelance/consultant) and honestly I start returning back to analog information management for most of my stuff. I don't trust big corps. It's not new but it's more true today than ever.

So if you have a really revolutionary new idea/discovery: NEVER EVER put it on ANY big corps infrastructure (Cloud, OS, ...) to prevent leaking it everywhere.