The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/02/apple-vision-pro-headset-review/677347/

by Jtsummers • 2 years ago

78 88 2 years ago

theatlantic.com

lolinder3• 2 years ago

https://archive.md/xrOD2

Jtsummers• 2 years ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20240204094929/https://www.theat...

Sorry, I had meant to post the archive link with it.

moolcool2• 2 years ago

Bad link https://archive.is/xrOD2

lolinder3• 2 years ago

Does archive.md not work for you? archive.md, archive.is, archive.ph, and archive.today should in theory all resolve to the same service. Where I'm at they're even the same IP.

moolcool2• 2 years ago

No, I get a connection reset error. It might be my ISP being bastardly though.

dang• 2 years ago

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39255524)

ilrwbwrkhv• 2 years ago

I think now is actually a special time. All FAANG including Apple have faltered. Now is the time to make the next big thing. A linux based AR glasses which actually works.

syncsynchalt• 2 years ago

2024, the year of Linux on the ski goggle.

Gare2• 2 years ago

Sadly, Alpine is already taken

mattlondon• 2 years ago

It is a struggle to even get Bluetooth working on Linux, forget about AR headsets!

I think apple missed the boat here anyway - the next big thing is not AR or VR despite Apple and Facebook betting the farm on it ... They both missed this AI thing and got distracted by VR.

willsmith72• 2 years ago

you don't "miss" AI. you can be slower to adapt, but on a large enough timescale, that quickly becomes irrelevant. even chrome was only released in 2008

smoldesu• 2 years ago

To be fair, Linux is the backbone of the entire Quest lineup. If it was a limiting factor then I don't see why Oculus was so quick to market.

Der_Einzige• 2 years ago

These days the N in the FAANG stands for Nvidia and it has not faltered at all.

NoxiousPluK• 2 years ago

I feel Valve is working on that with the Deckard project.

lolinder3• 2 years ago

For a time, at what may have been the height of the internet’s thrall, it became popular to pretend that the digital and material worlds were continuous—that the “real” one had no special meaning, because cyberspace had become a part of it. That turned out to be wrong. We live in cars and on couches and, separately, we also live on phones. Apple believes it can resolve this conflict—that the digital and material worlds can be merged together—but it has only put the conflict into higher resolution. A headset is a pair of spectacles, but a headset is also a blindfold.

This is a really poignant conclusion, and reflects much of the worry I have about this device category. The more tightly we've integrated the digital and physical worlds the less connected we've become as people. It's showing in our relationships, its showing in our mental health, it's showing in our politics.

At this point, humane technology is technology that gets out of your way as much as possible and let you exist in the real world with real people. From my perspective, further integrating digital experiences into our real lives should not be the goal, the goal should be to achieve the benefits that digital devices bring without actually needing to interact with them.

candiddevmike• 2 years ago

Unfortunately I think most people want the "escape" of these digital worlds. To them (and others), it's easier to live inside of dream world than fix the current one.

veunes2• 2 years ago

If you think about it, it's indeed easier to start from scratch and create a new digital world than to fix the current one. The current world depends on far too many people

threeseed• 2 years ago

It's easy to make this judgement now when the headset has just been launched. But over the coming decades we are going to new see new types of social interaction that could enhance the world rather than break it apart.

For example, being in Australia conferences in the EU and US require a 14 hour flight time and days of adjusting to a new time zone. Likewise there are people working two jobs, have children or are a carer who may want to experience the benefits of studying in person but can't.

I suspect as the fidelity gets better that human need of being around other people is going to be fulfilled. Which could make a massive difference in terms of reducing loneliness and the feeling of isolation.

sanderjd• 2 years ago

It's easy to make this judgement now when the headset has just been launched. But over the coming decades we are going to new see new types of social interaction that could enhance the world rather than break it apart.

So ... in many ways my life has been this "over the coming decades" first the internet in general, then social media, then smart phones. And at each of those steps I said what you just said about this.

But I dunno man! I have to say that I feel like the "this will lead to deterioration in valuable human bonds" crowd has been more thoroughly vindicated than my "we have to wait and see whether the good dominates the bad!" crowd.

gutnor• 2 years ago

The world has to evolve in a different way than it is currently happening. Which is not impossible but those headset development are not cheap so the monetisation is a very high requirement.

It is a lot easier to use those headset where they naturally fit: ultra-personalised experience. Like social media v2, lot of potential to connect human, but devolving into jailing human in echo chambers: you can keep in touch with your family and friends across the world, or you can get hooked into a forever stream of news/post/video/product customised to make you engage.

VR headset used for games. I can see the social aspect winning. Spacial computing, I'm scared.

zdragnar• 2 years ago

We already have that with video calls. The headset adds a sense of depth, but since you're wearing it on your face, any visual of you is going to be artificially constructed (i.e. there's a rubber gasket over important facial muscles, so no camera could hope to capture them).

I have much more hope for someone like Starline, though it seems they've gone the AI route to cut down on the number of cameras and hardware for blending them together. https://blog.google/technology/research/project-starline-pro...

api• 2 years ago

The problem is not the tech. The problem is what’s on it. Social media in particular runs on dividing us, since maximally triggering or addicting content maximizes time spent staring at the app.

This isn’t a new observation. I recall reading back in the 90s about how the problem with TV is what’s on the TV.

The tech is fine. The incentives for media are all perverse and destructive.

lazide2• 2 years ago

That’s like saying alcohol is fine, it’s the incentives of the people selling and using it.

Which isn’t wrong necessarily. But definitely is working hard.

josephg• 2 years ago

I don't think thats it. Its not the part where we interact with digital devices that is the problem, exactly. Maybe its the part where we stop interacting with other people as people as well.

I watched a wild video[1] the other day which really gave me a new perspective on the Apple Vision Pro. Casey Neistat walks around NYC with an apple vision strapped on his head and chats with people in the street. I was arrested by it - part of the reason is how he "effortlessly" interacts with a bunch of strangers in the video. He exists in the city, even with the headset on. Despite how nobody can actually see his face. I'd find that pretty scary to do!

I suspect part of the problem might be that devices give as an emotional excuse to avoid real human to human interactions. They enable us to turtle away. Talking to people online feels like the real thing, but better because its less scary. We don't have to be quite as vulnerable when we do it. And maybe thats the problem with this stuff - the more we enable "social junk food" we use it as a substitute for real, scary, intimate human interactions. The technology isn't the problem per se. The problem is how we choose to hide behind it.

[1] https://youtu.be/UvkgmyfMPks . Definitely worth a watch.

xeromal2• 2 years ago

There's an interesting set of conflicting forces where people are tempted through selfish interests to be lazy interacting with humans and prefer to stay home connected while also craving intimate human interaction. I think this laziness is encouraging us to stay home while also causing all us to feel more isolated and lonely. Like you said, "social junk food", but it's also video games, TV, etc. We've invented more ways to avoid social interaction which causes a feedback-loop of sorts. We're becoming more anti-social but also more lonely.

Having nothing to do is a great driver to force people out of their holes and interacting with other humans. We've made it too easy to stay home

avidphantasm2• 2 years ago

I would never walk down the street wearing a headset as I would EXPECT to be punched in the face.

basch• 2 years ago

It's not even starting or stopping interacting with people. Its being fed what we want and what we are comfortable with. The algorithmic firehose freezes us into a comfortable, unchanging state. We don't update our beliefs because its easier to confirm them.

It's also a bit that compulsatory education ends at 18, and we switch to entercation. The top priority of the news is to captivate attention and entertain.

The black mirror about muting people and not seeing them anymore is the future. Living in one physical space occupied by multiple tribes, who merely see otherselves as apparitions.

Any time it is applicable, i have to post my favorite article on the internt https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7... Ironic that im stuck on it.

aviat• 2 years ago

Casey Neistat is used to interacting with people while wearing Ray bans. People are used to not seeing his eyes.

ianpenney• 2 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain

Worth a re-watch in this day and age given your comments on the zeitgeist.

garrickvanburen3• 2 years ago

the less connected we've become as people.

This ^.

I'm hesitant to embrace a tech that so clearly and obviously keeps people separated. At least with a phone, you can position it so 2 people can view it simultaneously.

dr_kiszonka• 2 years ago

True. At the same time, VR could afford richer interactions with those who live far away from you. For example, about 30% of older adults in the US live alone. Of course, it would be better to visit or live with them, but that is often impossible.

DonHopkins• 2 years ago

How long until Robert Scoble ruins it for everyone by posting a photo of himself naked in the shower wearing nothing but an Apple Vision Pro?

Rapzid• 2 years ago

Another take on that is that AVP is blinding you to reality. You are seeing the reality it wants you to see.

veunes2• 2 years ago

I've seen a couple of videos on TikTok of people using Apple Vision, and it looks so strange from an outsider's perspective. I understand that, in addition to extra information from apps, a person also sees everything around them, but from the outside, it looks like they're in their own world. It's just weird not to see a person's eyes.

jojobas2• 2 years ago

You lose a fair bit of peripheral vision. People definitely will die.

Gigachad• 2 years ago

I wonder if it could result in cities making public spaces safer and more accessible for people with vision impairment.

I know AirPods/noise cancelation made me very aware of accessibility features for hearing impaired people. Suddenly I’m looking for the lights on the train door button because I can’t hear the beep.

Most of this danger is entirely human constructed. If you put someone out on a farm or otherwise undeveloped land, they are very unlikely to kill themselves by mis stepping.

throwup238• 2 years ago

The headset, which weighs as much as a cauliflower

Christ, I just learned the length of a football field (and that there exists a different futbol pitch). Now I have to learn how much random vegetables weigh?

Can we at least stick to Brassica oleracea in the future? Whats the brussel sprout equivalent?

A medium-sized head of cauliflower is about 6 inches across, weighs about 2 pounds and makes 4 to 6 servings after trimming off the leaves and stem. [1]

In all seriousness this seems like a total deal breaker:

Typing via finger pinches or dictation was a pain, so I used a wireless keyboard. Even that had problems. Touch-typing in that context wasn’t easy, and the writing felt out of phase. The letters on the screen appeared after a very slight delay, just enough to make it feel like my words were being pulled through a wormhole on their way into my document.

[1] https://gmach.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Cauliflower.pdf

zamfi• 2 years ago

Forgive me if I missed the joke, but Cauliflower and Brussels Sprouts are in fact both cultivars of Brassica oleracea...

Humphrey• 2 years ago

It only occurred to me recently that when people compare something to the length of a football field, they are probably talking about American Football. I had always just assumed (without thinking about it) it was the length of an Australian Rules Football field, which can be almost 70% longer!

It must be about time we all just used metres and grams?

metaxy2• 2 years ago

Practically no one would ever be talking about Australian Rules Football (outside of the handful of countries where that's popular, of course), although presumably outside of the US they'd often be talking about soccer.

signatoremo• 2 years ago

Huh? Do you buy groceries or cook? Now I know exactly how it’d feel in my hands. 600 grams sounds very abstract. The Atlantic isn’t a review site.

cdata• 2 years ago

I saw a bunch of my techie friends all run out to buy one of these on launch day (thanks to their easy availability at Apple stores).

As far as I can tell from the reviews: this device is a preview of the future. But, it still needs iterative improvements before it will live up to its promise as a practical workstation or accessible gaming device.

It is plain to see that my friends who bought one are enjoying the camaraderie of all having done so. $4,000 is perhaps a reasonable price to feel connected to others in a meaningful way.

gonzo41• 2 years ago

Just think, if you put that 4K into an activities fund for yourself you could have weekly meetups in person for a year before running out of cash.

avidphantasm2• 2 years ago

Or a nice vacation with a friend.

72deluxe• 2 years ago

I am pretty sure people have managed to feel connected to others in a meaningful way before this device, and it didn't cost $4000. Not sure if you were being sarcastic...

How did anyone ever make friends 100 years ago without one of these!

haunter• 2 years ago

Was watching the Casey Neistat review video today and it's both crazy as in exciting and somehow terribly frightening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvkgmyfMPks There is just something eerie about the whole thing, like existing on the edge between the digital and real world.

But truly this is the future, there is no stop and it will be miniaturized down to normal glass size sooner or later

spacebacon• 2 years ago

I enjoy the writers refined writing style. A beautiful use of Trompe l’œil. The name for 2D art that looks 3D.

jdorfman2• 2 years ago

I got back from the Apple Store a few hours ago and that headline is exactly how I felt when I finished the 20 minute demo. It was amazing, it’s the future of entertainment especially sports and that’s the sad part, you will be enjoying it alone.

abnercoimbre2• 2 years ago

How did it work to get a nice, long demo? You wait on a line, place your name on a queue, or something else?

jdorfman2• 2 years ago

The demo was ~20 min. I put my name on a list and waited about 30 min. I was surprised that most people at the store were not there for the Vision Pro.

DougN7• 2 years ago

The movie “Ready Player One”, despite trying to end on a forced positive note, was/is prophetic. It was a very sad and disconnected world there, and we’re slowly moving that way here.

drewbug01• 2 years ago

I have such mixed feelings about it. I went back to the Apple Store today to exchange the “light seal” for something that fit better - and an older couple who were there for a demo asked me “what do you use it for?”

I didn’t have a great answer. The technology is really compelling; but it is a solo experience. I tried to show my friends last night what I saw via AirPlay… and it’s just not as interesting that way.

And despite that - last night I played a little LEGO game, and I was utterly transfixed. It plucked at my heartstrings in a way that shocked me. Today, I used the built-in “Mindfulness” app, while sitting atop a lifelike recreation of Haleakala… and it was incredibly peaceful.

I just don’t know what to make of it yet, but it’s fascinating. I’m making a conscious effort so far not to use it much around others, and I hope that will be a good balance.

jsz02• 2 years ago

There's something very gross to me about this product. It digital gluttony. It's like buttering your pop tarts. It's like adding extra sugar to your Cola. It's like wearing a diaper so you don't have to get up off the couch. At some point isn't enough enough? How connected do you have to really be? How much more engagement do you need to feel something? How many screens do you need to fill the hole in your heart? I wonder what's going on in the mind of a person who craves this isolating hyper stimulated cocoon strapped to their head.

goatlover2• 2 years ago

Have you ever put butter on a Pop-Tart? It's so frickin' good Have you ever put butter on a Pop-Tart? If you haven't, then I think you should

jsz02• 2 years ago

Yes but I'm ashamed of it. It's too good.

somewhereoutth• 2 years ago

It is rather end-stage technoscene isn't it. Along with AI and crypto, all solutions looking for a problem (and causing many problems themselves).

slimrec77• 2 years ago

Current stats are that 50% of Americans aged 30-49 have a social media addiction.

Under 29 who knows but obviously higher.

You can't expect a coke head to not snort the whole bag. We just don't believe social media addiction is like a coke addiction. This isn't going to just get better either. What are the kids that grew up watching tiktok as a first memory all of the sudden going to become ludite hippies in 15 years?

I even had the thought that maybe generation alpha would be reactionary against all this. Looking that up, holy shit is that wrong.

ProllyInfamous• 2 years ago

The amount of robberies is going to skyrocket... I would suspect that Apple will have to implement some sort of "50% translucency requirement for on-screen windows" so that using the Vision Pro in public places will not prevent people from being aware of their central vision & surroundings.

I don't personally carry a cell phone with me in day-to-day life, so I am already well aware of how addictive technology is for young & old [and am myself about half way along the journey].

The first person to get injured because the VisionPro screens suddenly freeze/blank is going to make global news. RIP.

lo_zamoyski• 2 years ago

I will go ahead and claim that culturally, we are increasingly aggressive about escaping reality, and in part, we don't realize we're doing it because our minds are darkened and distorted by decades of consumerism and the indulgence of disordered appetites. Instead of doing what rational people do, which is to conform our minds and our desires to the truth, we try to conform "truth" to our minds and desires, twisting "truth" to suit them. We are living the Bacchae, and if and when we manage to wake from our mad frenzy, we will see, like Agave, horror and suffering and death.

EPWN3D• 2 years ago

I'm sure I'm a pollyanna about all this, but every time some new piece of tech or innovation comes out, English majors crank out "What Hast Thou Wrought" pieces like nobody's business.

The truth is nobody knows how this thing will integrate into human society. Personally I think the social media hysteria is overdone, and the human need for connection is probably stronger than technology. Time and time again, what we've seen is that technology amplifies individual characteristics rather than changing them.

Of course the press is obsessed with the goings on of social media. They themselves spend all their time obsessing about their ratios on Twitter. But there are plenty of people out there who don't, and they don't get noticed because the opinion leaders can't get outside their own little bubble of Tik Tok, Twitter, Reddit, etc.

Yes, certain people already predisposed to isolation will use technology as a substitute for human connection. But those people are going to do that anyway.

smaudet4• 2 years ago

Wasn't this about it being a terrible unusable product though? Not a "what has thou wrought" bit at all.

I think this has convinced me we need a new technology altogether, not cameras + screens for AR to be feasible.

The use as a movie theatre, if they could eliminate the weight, maybe an interesting use. But not a good AR headset, and probably never without eliminating the lag/precision issue (hint, you aren't allowed to digitize the universe).

testhn2ac• 2 years ago

Much Ado about Nothing.

Reviews on YouTube show an entirely different experience. Seen people walking around wearing the devices and interesting use cases.

Sure, it's not for everyone. But doesn't seem as dystopian as people make it out to be.

euroderf• 2 years ago

I'm waiting to read the inevitable review in which someone (and partner) use Apple Vision Pro it to enhance their sex life. I find it hard to believe that AVP would be an exception to a fundamental rule about the drivers of technological development.

jitl• 2 years ago

It’s hard to kiss already with only one person wearing one, with two you’d need your heads to be at 90 degrees to make it work

nunez3• 2 years ago

this thing is going to drive "phone" addiction through to the stratosphere when it drops in price.

nunez3• 2 years ago

"UPLOAD" (produced by Greg Daniels) will be the next generation's "Idiocracy"; I'm calling it now.

It's not a fantastic show but I think it paints an accurate picture of where AI and AR/VR will take us if it grows unchecked.

The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

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