Cat S22 Flip Phone

https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s22-flip/

by enthdegree • 4 years ago

578 280 4 years ago

catphones.com

eu• 4 years ago

The specs are on T-Mobile's site: https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone/cat-s22-flip

fady• 4 years ago

I want one! Probably the coolest looking flip-phone I have seen

heleninboodler• 4 years ago

Oh, I miss the tiny rear screen on my HTC Star Trek. What a great feature for quick status updates or just using the phone as a clock.

jmcphers• 4 years ago

Oh gosh, I had one of those! What a great little phone.

soylentcola• 4 years ago

My first phone with a camera was a Sanyo SCP-8100 and it also had one of those. The "gee whiz" feature was that you could open the camera app, close the phone, and then it would show a live display from the camera on the tiny screen, allowing you to take "selfies" despite only having the single camera.

nick238• 4 years ago

I hope this brings back the ear-splitting PA-DURRRP that I heard everywhere in my old job where Nextel (later Sprint, now T-Mobile) cell-phones were basically walkie-talkies. /s

thrill• 4 years ago

"Go for Snake Doctor"

krinchan• 4 years ago

I remember when Nextel PTT was all the rage. I had a job coordinating a bunch of contractors and had to spend all day just being chirped at. I'd be mid-conversation on the landline and then "PA-DURRP Hey man can you text me that customer's address again?"

H8crilA3• 4 years ago

I have been using CAT phones for a few years. They really are tough, work pretty well with gloves, do not care much about water, etc. Can recommend, and the infrared sensors are worth it just for the wow effect alone :). From the downsides - some of the smaller things break faster than you'd like (e.g. laser meter, or rubber covers for the USB port, or the painted/glued layer on the back in one of the older models). These downsides do not invalidate the main purpose(s) of the device. Also the phones rather quickly fall out of the supported Android version range, but this seems to be a common problem with all Android phones.

bo10242• 4 years ago

Also the phones rather quickly fall out of the supported Android version range

This was my first concern. Otherwise seems awesome.

shp0ngle7• 4 years ago

yeah if you care about getting updates, don’t get CAT phone. They stop putting updates very quickly.

Much shorter time you get updates than even Samsung, forget Apple.

kevincox4• 4 years ago

If you want a long-lasting phone the best thing I am aware of is to go to https://androidenterprisepartners.withgoogle.com/devices/ and you can filter by supported lifetime.

kennywinker3• 4 years ago

I did that, out of curiosity, and I'll summarize what I found in case anybody else is interested:

First, it looks like the very best options for long term support is this guy https://androidenterprisepartners.withgoogle.com/device/#!/F... (Point Mobile PM30) with "Security updates until March 2028". That's 6 years of support, if a little suspicious since it's from a company with a single device on the market.

After that it looks like Samsung offers support for their devices until "February 2027", and one other company, Zebra Technologies, offers support until "March 2027". Going to 2026 adds a few more brands (Motorola, Xiaomi, Google Pixel).

So the bulk of phones have support for 4 years, there's decent options with 5 years of support, a single device with 6 years, and nothing beyond that.

Two data points for contrast:

1. I just bought a 10 year old PC that's still useful, can run the bleeding edge of operating systems, and can be upgraded and repaired easily - I expect it to have another 5 years of useful lifespan ahead of it.

2. The iPhone 6S, released in 2015, is still supported by Apple. That's a 7 year old phone. iOS 13 (released in 2020) dropped support for the iPhone 6/6+ (2014) and 5s (2013) so 6 years and 7 years respectively.

A final note: all of this is about software support - none of this is actually about useful lifespan. Two years ago my phone crapped out on me and I used a friend's old iPhone SE (1st generation, 2016) for a couple months - it was trending hard towards a trash can. The battery lasts about 2 years before it needs replacement, the glass screen breaks easily and aftermarket replacements have touch input issues, and running the latest iOS on it had things moving slower than LA traffic.

My hope is that phones hit / have already hit the end of easy performance advancement, and a focus on longevity might start to take over. But I don't think that's likely. There is pressure from things like large institutional buyers to make generic PCs last long and be endlessly repairable - it's not really clear that pressure exists or CAN exist under capitalism, for phones.

shp0ngle7• 4 years ago

Why is fairphone not in the list? From what I understand, they offer very long updates

(it’s just not a very good phone for the price, but they try to push updates as long as possible, from what I heard)

edit: yep still getting updates 7 years later

https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/03/15/fairphone-2-launched-a...

also the phones get 4 years of regular warranty.

They are available just in Europe though

baq• 4 years ago

got an iphone se for that reason.

djur• 4 years ago

Can they be flipped open one-handed easily?

ranger_danger7• 4 years ago

Nope, I have this phone and it's quite bulky (about 3 Note8's worth of thickness) and requires two hands to open.

Animats• 4 years ago

I've had several CAT phones. I have two S41 phones right now. Their biggest weakness is the little rubber covers over the ports. Those are the first to go. They need a better solution to that problem. Wireless charging, at least.

Also, I've had two of them bulge from battery expansion, just from leaving them plugged into power most of the time. Battery repair has several week turnaround, which is why I ended up with two of them, one back from repair, unused in its box.

Plus, putting silver in the case rubber to "avoid infection" is just silly.

aqfamnzc• 4 years ago

I have an S41 missing its USB cover too, and have always wondered if it's still splash or water proof without it. I did find a picture of a replacement port online, and it looks like that part has a rubber seal which seems promising.

samstave7• 4 years ago

Has anyone tested a 'submersible phone' (whatever water-proofing level that may be... and wireless charging whilst submerged?

a1369209993• 4 years ago

Plus, putting silver in the case rubber to "avoid infection" is just silly.

Pattern matching on silver+rubber+infection, I think this might be intended to prevent 'infection' of the rubber (by rubber-eating bacteria). I can't find a citation offhand, though.

Zondartul• 4 years ago

As a fellow CAT S41 user, I can confirm that the phone is basically invulnerable to dropping, although one of the rubber pads did break off after a couple years of opening and closing it. My compass doesn't work, probably due to exposure to strong magnets. Gps and cellular internet still work perfectly, I can browse modern websites and watch youtube without much trouble. The battery lasts forever. The camera is kinda meh and I regret not getting the variant with a FLIR camera.

If they can make the flip-phone variant hardy enough to play football with I'll definitely buy it. But chances are, my S41 will still be working by then ;)

samstave7• 4 years ago

Play football with...

Basically any phone can work as you play football - because your hands are free to browse the web.

digitalsin• 4 years ago

Personally I've gotten good enough spirals with a Samsung phone that I feel confident during neighborhood pickup games.

mdp2021• 4 years ago

hardy enough

They have a page about the ruggedness of their products - "built rugged, perfect for construction sites, farms or extreme, outdoor environments"; "Made to military specification (MIL-SPEC 810H) - Drop-proof, dust proof and shockproof"; "[drop] tested onto concrete from up to 1.8m (6ft)"; "waterproof" with Ingress Protection level 8 or 9.

https://www.catphones.com/en-us/features/rugged-and-tough/

andai• 4 years ago

infrared sensors

Thermal imaging! How cool is that!

https://www.catphones.com/en-gb/features/integrated-thermal-...

unwind• 4 years ago

Or how hot!

kipchak• 4 years ago

There are a couple companies (Seek, FLIR) that make attachments for iOS/Android also, though having it integrated is definitely nicer.

0x38B3• 4 years ago

Clive (yt: bigclivedotcom) uses his CAT and now Blackview phones to check electronics for hotspots, etc. He reviewed them in depth:

- "One year test of the CAT S61 thermal imaging phone." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex7mNzhZN9A

- "Independent Blackview BV9900 Pro 4-month review (non shill)." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5n7oE2K__4

I would love a phone with a FLIR sensor but definitely don't need it.

2000UltraDeluxe• 4 years ago

I used to go through two phones per year simply because I'm clumsy. After two years, I'm still on my first CAT.

There are definitely downsides, but the durability is something else compared to other phones.

0x00000002• 4 years ago

Does anyone know if this has a built in Hotspot? I want a simple flip phone so badly, but in the rare case I need to get online while out of the house, I don't want to have to pay for and carry a separate device/plan.

axjmc• 4 years ago

It does, specs here:

https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone/cat-s22-flip

0x00000002• 4 years ago

Thank you! I did check out that page but missed the "Mobile Hotspot Capable: true" the first time around.

omoikane• 4 years ago

The original site (https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s22-flip/) is curious in that I can see the technical specs when browsing in Lynx, but not in Chrome or Firefox. I can find the specs enclosed in a <div> but couldn't find a path that would make it visible. Maybe there there is some reason why they want the specs to only be visible on T-Mobile's website?

saint_angels• 4 years ago

this stock(?) android doesn't look well-suited to the flip phone form factor. Is there an android UI made for feature phones?

macinjosh• 4 years ago

The specs list "Android 11 (Go Edition)". I assume "Go Edition" is that?

nicoburns• 4 years ago

"Go Edition" is really just a version for phones with low amounts of RAM.

pjerem4• 4 years ago

What you need is really just a custom input method to write text. Android is already designed to be controlled with arrow keys. For tier apps, idk.

Minor49er• 4 years ago

I have an LG flip phone that I use for testing phone systems. I believe it runs some form of Android. It's mostly okay, but typing messages with the keypad requires much slower input than the flip phones of yesteryear. Otherwise, typing too quickly will miss inputs. The rate is something between half a second to a second every time you press a key

loeg• 4 years ago

I like that they describe Android 11 not as the world's best operating system, but as the world's biggest operating system.

etskinner2• 4 years ago

It seems odd that they'd use the word 'biggest' instead of 'most popular'. Wouldn't big = bloat?

newsclues• 4 years ago

Geographic footprint of installed devices.

AdamH12113• 4 years ago

I've been looking to reduce my smartphone usage, and I would be really tempted by this if it weren't limited to T-Mobile. The ability to make a hot spot and run a handful of 2FA apps really seals the deal.

wffurr• 4 years ago

T-Mobile coverage and speeds are great. Also it's a GSM phone and probably works with other carriers if you purchase it outright.

pjerem4• 4 years ago

T-Mobile coverage and speeds are great.

Not in EU :D

nfriedly4• 4 years ago

I mentioned this in another comment, but based on [1], it looks like it supports a good range of 2G/3G/4G bands. So if you can find one unlocked, then there's a good change it will work on your carrier of choice.

[1] https://www.gsmarena.com/cat_s22_flip-11141.php

ranger_danger7• 4 years ago

T-Mobile lets you unlock it after a short period of time of having their service. I'm using mine on AT&T now without issue.

HidyBush3• 4 years ago

The current mobile software ecosystem makes me so angry. We could truly have flip phones if only whatsapp, imessage, and whatever else were open protocols. Just program a simplified client that sips battery and is optimized for number keys and I would be golden. Instead if you want to have the privilege of sending text messages you have to pack a whole android distribution to install some bloated unoptimized app

dlivingston• 4 years ago

Matrix offers bridges to a large number of messaging services (WhatsApp & iMessage included). I don’t know why it hasn’t become more popular. https://matrix.org/bridges/

renewiltord• 4 years ago

How do they implement iMessage? Through a puppet VM of some sort?

HidyBush3• 4 years ago

I know about matrix bridges, but I'm sorry to say they're a pipe dream. First of all I would have to manage them myself, which is a pain and costs money.

Secondly, anything could break at any time: the vps provider, the domain provider, the matrix server, the bridges themselves could go unmaintained or suddenly not be compatible anymore.

It's truly a flaky hack, and in truth you shouldn't need a flaky hack to send a photo to your uncle using whatsapp

izacus• 4 years ago

This is running a slimmed down, memory saving version of Android (that is - Go edition).

What exactly is preventing you from buying it, if that's what you care about? It's literally what you want.

golergka2• 4 years ago

the privilege of sending text messages

And dropbox is just rsync with extra whistles, right?

I don't think that modern messaging apps could be trivialized to just "sending text messages". And even if you in particular don't use all the other features, all the other people who create network effects do.

HidyBush3• 4 years ago

I don't understand your reply. Are you implying that Dropbox is so advanced that it couldn't be implemented on a simpler device? Are you seriously telling me you need Android to send encrypted blobs over the internet?

pjerem4• 4 years ago

Oh I want it. Looks like it's only available in the US though :(

tmikaeld• 4 years ago

I'd be all over it if it where available in the EU :(

fxtentacle• 4 years ago

Yeah, it's a pity they don't sell it in the EU.

grenoire• 4 years ago

Looking at the reviews on the T-Mobile website, you can't type using the number pad. That's an insane oversight!

SamBam2• 4 years ago

Wait, what? So how do you type? Minuscule touch keyboard on the screen?

Edit, yes, here's a video.[1] The thing is also a lot bigger and thicker in the hands than I realized.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVzuT6eYZUA

SahAssar3• 4 years ago

At https://youtu.be/GVzuT6eYZUA?t=107 he types with the keyboard

Watching that video the phone was a lot bigger than I thought, I was hoping for something compact but this thing is really chonky.

40four• 4 years ago

That video clearly shows the user typing using the number pad. So no worries there. I agree, if that were not possible, that would be a little bit silly. This is a perfect example of why I never trust reviews. People are either just really stupid, or they are fake/ paid for.

hinkley2• 4 years ago

It definitely big, but there are some clues in the video that the presenter may be a fairly short person as well. So the fact that it looks huge in his hands may have something to do with his hands and not entirely the phone's fault.

enthdegree• 4 years ago

This is a dealbreaker if true.

This link says it comes with a T9 keyboard called “Kika” and other installable T9 keyboards exist: https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbphones/comments/qfr6rc/one_mont...

12312er13r2• 4 years ago

Google have been delaying reviews of apps that accept keys.

Go on, plug a keyboard (or use a phone with a qwerty keyboard. ha!) and try ctrl+t, or ctrl+w on firefox android to manage tabs...

If you are on any version past 78, it won't work.

I guess google call it bot-enablement-features. or they just really hate people with disabilities. ...it you remove these functions, app reviews fly trhu in comparisson.

thankfully they don't seem to impact keyboards which all still support ctrl+a/c/x/v... the day that is gone i will probably even consider apple.

asddubs2• 4 years ago

linux phones can't be ready soon enough

_rami_• 4 years ago

Is there any source / data on that? I haven't noticed such a difference between our apps.

ranger_danger7• 4 years ago

They're wrong, I can do T9 typing with the numbers just fine on mine, and switch to a touchscreen keyboard if I want to also. Just wish it was faster to switch between them.

not1ofU• 4 years ago

Had an S35 a few years ago, bought it because of the waterproof factor. Worst phone I ever owned.

They dont provide android updates (at least for that model) and would just stop working randomly, I had to hard reset it at least once every 2 days, but sometimes twice in 1 day.

Might have been just my phone though as I knew someone else with the same model and they didn't have that issue.

hedora2• 4 years ago

Any hope of custom roms on this thing?

phh2• 4 years ago

It is unlikely to be officially bootloader-unlockable (being a T-Mobile exclusive). But I'm expecting it is a Mediatek SoC, which has known security flaws allowing for bootloader unlocks, so uh, /maybe/.

If by chance it is bootloader-unlockable, GSI (Generic System Image, generic Android custom ROMs) should boot just fine on it. As a reference, GSI work on Coolpad C558 (not flip-phone, but uh bar-phone I guess? not sure if the term still makes sense in the age of smartphones) - it doesn't work great on Coolpad C558 because of the severe lack of RAM, but should be ok on Cat S22.

Some specifics will just probably need a bit of work for PTT button, and mapping long press on "#" to vibrator. Unless you want T9 on it, or to fix random apps's broken DPAD UX, there shouldn't be more than a day of work to be fully usable.

Edit: If someone wants to send me one (in EU), I'd be happy to take a look

mschuster91• 4 years ago

At least the old CAT phones all used to be shipped with unlocked MTK bootloaders.

nfriedly4• 4 years ago

SoC is Qualcomm QM215 Snapdragon 215

stratosmacker3• 4 years ago

Hey! We spoke on your Github https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/issues/2...

Bootloader unlocking worked out of the box, and GSI installed without a hitch

issues right now:

- The flip doesn't turn on the internal screen

- front screen is inoperable and just displays T-Mobile's logo after installing the APK for the radio

- obviously there is no T9 keyboard with the GSI

- PTT button DOES work with an add-on app that maps keys, it registers fine

Happy to help anyway I can if you're interested

vvladymyrov• 4 years ago

The promise 13 day standby battery life. Looks like it costs $240 from t-mobile. I'd love to get phone like that for my kids. Not sure it would withstand abuse though. Would be nice if there would be iPhone like that .

thatguy0900• 4 years ago

This is a construction company, cat phones are literally made solely for abuse. Even says you can wash it with bleach.

francoisdevlin• 4 years ago

Right, but experience has taught me that construction equipment has nothing on my toddler...

kube-system• 4 years ago

It’s not made by a construction company. It’s made by a ruggedized phone manufacturer who licensed CAT’s name.

seltzered_2• 4 years ago

Oddly, this seems like the perfect phone for elders that from my experience have:

- dropped the phone into the toilet, on ground cracking the screen, etc.

- can't figure out how to end a call.

- get addicted to reading garbage news on their phone instead of trying to use a laptop for thinking about news, writing, organizing instead.

steve_adams_86• 4 years ago

We talk a lot about kids and smartphone addiction but yeah, elderly people go crazy for them too.

My wife’s parents sit on Facebook just scrolling through photos endlessly. They do have other things they get up to, but I think their screen time is easily 3-4 hours per day.

My elderly dad is guilty of too much screen time but he gets my partial endorsement because he’s hacking on Linux and hates the news

jlkuester7• 4 years ago

People, talk to your parents about addition to Kernel hacking before it is too late!

happyopossum2• 4 years ago

None of those are exclusive, or even more common in elderly people than the general population. Let’s not ascribe negatives to people based on any single factor such as age, sex, or race, ok?

corrral2• 4 years ago

That kind of thing happens to me all the time. iOS c. version 6 was a refuge from it, mostly, but they've since added so much more stuff to it (and replaced the home button with a gesture) that I find myself doing things by accident on there all the time, too, now.

It's much worse for my parents, because when they do something by accident (or when some designed-by-assholes program decides it needs to replace your usual screen with some "helpful" full-screen message about an update, on launch or on trying to take an action) it takes them far longer to figure out what's happening and how to undo it. Often they just give up after a while.

seltzered_2• 4 years ago

fair point, though I'll note my assertion was based on personal observation, frustration, and setting up interventions out of concern.

tonguez• 4 years ago

“can't figure out how to end a call.”

“None of those are exclusive, or even more common in elderly people than the general population.”

you’re right, old people are generally just as good with technology as young people. there are no generalizable differences between any groups of humans.

r3trohack3r• 4 years ago

Not just elders. Im 30 and I’ve long thought about buying a phone that is inconvenient enough to use that I don’t build habits around it - but still has mapping software, gig economy apps, and short-term rental apps to get myself out of a bind in the few cases I need those.

This phone is really tempting me. Bonus points that it’s built the way I feel devices should be: rugged. It would go well with my Panasonic Toughbook. Just not super eager to re-enter Google’s ecosystem.

jmull• 4 years ago

I guess even in 2022 there are still some socially acceptable prejudices to express.

jdmoreira2• 4 years ago

Will this make me less addicted to my phone? If so, worth it!

MiddleEndian• 4 years ago

Consider getting a Palm Phone. They're small, and if you spend too much time dicking around on one, it will simply run out of battery.

hinkley2• 4 years ago

People bag on Apple for making their phones thinner instead of increasing battery life. But perhaps as a constrained resource it keeps civilization running instead of grinding to a halt.

throwaway787544• 4 years ago

Highly recommend a regular feature phone or a KaiOS phone; the latter still has useful apps, the former doesn't. You can still keep your old smartphone with wifi if something requires a real smartphone, and a bunch of feature phones have a hotspot mode.

My biggest problem is I have to keep my smartphone stowed away somewhere or I just use it instead of the feature phone.

hedora2• 4 years ago

Any recommendations for a feature/kaios phone with a good camera, maps, music streaminf, signal, and yelp or similar? (Without google spyware or a web browser).

Budget: <= $1500.

enw• 4 years ago

Get a Kindle and start reading books instead. It has Wi-Fi as well to browse Hacker News on e-ink.

herpderperator• 4 years ago

I actually confused this with Samsung S22... interesting that there's no branding issue/trademark?

_carbyau_2• 4 years ago

S22. Whereby the 22 is a year designation. Not sure what there is to trademark here?! The letter 'S' ?

everdrive• 4 years ago

This is exciting in general, but I'm sad they went with Android. I certainly understand the practicality of this decision, however. It's not as if building your own OS is feasible for most manufacturers.

As has been well-reported, it's effectively not possible to turn off a lot of the spying built into Android.

That said, I'm still happy this phone exists. While imperfect, it seems like a step closer to phones which are primarily phones, and are made with practical concerns in mind.

WesolyKubeczek• 4 years ago

Let me remind you that KaiOS exists for phones exactly like this.

umeshunni• 4 years ago

What is "Programmable PTT Button"? I assume it's "Push to Talk". What's the use case for it? Who uses it?

tener• 4 years ago

I can imagine it being used as a walkie-talkie replacement.

Thoreandan• 4 years ago

An example I've seen is a dozen construction workers on a big job site whose phones push-to-talk goes to the speakerphones of everyone on their team. This functionality was big with Nextel phones/service in the early cellular era.

serf• 4 years ago

This functionality was big with Nextel phones/service in the early cellular era.

as one of the fossils who was a subscriber to Nextel, I feel compelled to mention that the Motorola TAC phones were like 30 years earlier; the 'early cellular era' had been underway for some time before Nextel.

stusmall2• 4 years ago

I used to work on another ruggedized Android smartphone that focused on large commercial deployments. We focused more on hospitals than industrial. The PTT feature was a big selling feature. It was really popular with nurses communicating with the rest of their team on the floor. Think of it like a walkie talkie you can easily integrate tons of other daily work tasks with. Instead of just talking to your team you could also pull up charts, check emails, etc all on one device. Built into the PTT was also a panic button to sound an alarm for an emergency. It's just a handy flexible tool and from my understanding our customers found different useful ways to apply it to their needs.

Pxtl2• 4 years ago

Do these go through an app/wifi or do they use conventional radio?

c22• 4 years ago

If it's like the extra button on my phone (Cat S61) you should be able to set it up to do whatever you like. I have mine set to toggle the flashlight on long press which is super convenient.

saalweachter• 4 years ago

There's a physical button you can program -- you can use it for PTT, or to turn on the flashlight, open your to-do list, etc.

daviddaviddavid2• 4 years ago

When Sprint/T-Mobile forced me to get a new flip phone because my Kyocera would no longer be supported, I had to decide between the Alcatel Go Flip, the Cat S22 and a Sonim XP3 Plus. I went with the Sonim and I am very happy with it.

https://www.sonimtech.com/products/devices/xp3plus/

The Alcatel had many bad reviews. The Cat seemed huge and defeated many of purposes I have for having a flip phone in the first place. The Sonim has incredible build quality, no apps, internet works fine. I have no complaints. I haven't tried using Google Maps on it yet, but if that works I will love it even more and ditch my Garmin GPS.

hammycheesy2• 4 years ago

I'm also rocking an XP3 Plus! I bought it around September because I was looking to curb my screen time. I ruled out the S22 for similar reasons.

I find that in rare cases I need to bring my old smart phone with me (traveling, mainly) for things like airline tickets, movies on planes, maps in new areas.

Otherwise day-to-day I am exclusively using the XP3. My screen time is now at an average of <10 min per day, and my battery life is between 5-6 days on average.

Super happy with the experience, and I bought back so much more time and sanity by not staring at my phone for hours per day.

jamestanderson• 4 years ago

What's your experience with group texting? I've been looking for a dumb-er phone, but I need good group texting support to stay in touch with my family. I've tried phones like the Nokia 3310 and Nokia 225 TA-1282, and have been disappointed in the way they handle group texting.

kk6mrp2• 4 years ago

I got one also but it has a lot of rough edges compared to the Kyocera ones. That and it is larger.

ranger_danger7• 4 years ago

From what I can tell the XP3 does not support the Google Play Store nor unsigned apps, while the S22 does both.

greatjack613• 4 years ago

For all the fliphone enthusiasts here check out https://forums.apps4flip.com . It’s a great community dedicated to flip phone users.

r2sk5t5• 4 years ago

We have push-to-talk, group chat, and live video software for similar devices: Kyocera DuraXV https://kyoceramobile.com/duraxv-extreme/ Sonim XP3 Plus https://www.sonimtech.com/products/devices/xp3plus/

Both flip phones are based on AOSP (https://source.android.com/) and we've had to deal with custom implementations of soft keys, and push to talk headsets. Even Kyocera's implementation varies between the ATT version (https://kyoceramobile.com/duraxe-epic/att/) and the Verizon one.

This phone is made by https://bullitt-group.com/ and they very smartly license the CAT brand. We have not worked with them yet, but I'm guessing it would be relatively trivial to support the phone.

Without good soft-key support, these phones are unusable. Any questions, please LMK.

mintplant• 4 years ago

Who is "we"?

r2sk5t5• 4 years ago

We are a software company called ALO https://alo.ai

xmonkee• 4 years ago

The CAT phone definitely looks a lot better.

r2sk5t5• 4 years ago

Our important requirements: * Android > 10 * fast enough processor * strong soft-key API/SDK support * loud speaker * all day replaceable battery * retail cost < $250 * mobile device management software (MDM) * PTT headset support https://kleinelectronics.com/p-o-c-ptt-over-cellular/shop-by...

tauntz2• 4 years ago

Without good soft-key support, these phones are unusable.

Depends on what you mean by "good". I worked with PTT for a long time (disclosure: Motorola WAVE), Android devices with HW buttons, wired PTT headsets and buttons, wireless PTT headsets and buttons, you name it. It's a world of pain and _lots_ of edge cases and testing but in the end, there was always a way to beat any device into submission and get it working for most common use-cases. Any questions, LMK :)

r2sk5t5• 4 years ago

I can affirm that beating devices into submission is possible :-) We support iOS too with PTT headsets, Airpods, and other BT headsets and that gets interesting in different ways.

Based on my experience, it seems hardware vendors are not treating soft-keys as a core requirement and are generally bolting support on and in some cases omitting it. It's as if the requirements didn't include third party app support beyond the carriers PTT products that they OEM.

dzhiurgis• 4 years ago

Just curious why something like Apple doesn't support it out of the box? Is there some sort of regulation that won't let them or just plain ignorance of customers?

I guess we got softcore version where you can ask Siri be kind enough to attempt to send a voice message, which absolutely sucks for unsupported languages.

nfriedly4• 4 years ago

That's amazing! I was just saying how I missed the HTC StarTrek and wished someone would do a modern take on it.

throwaway81523• 4 years ago

Back in my day, flip phones had swappable batteries. It doesn't sound like this one does. Does it?

nfriedly4• 4 years ago

It looks like fairly weak specs for an Android phone (4x Cortex A53's @ 1.3Ghz & 2GB RAM)[1], but I guess that's not really the point.

On the upside: it supports a lot of LTE bands, including all of the primary bands for Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, & T-Mobile in the US, as well as bands used in many other countries - so if you can get one unlocked it should work on most carriers.

Also, there are some complaints about battery life, but the battery is user-replaceable, so you can just get two and swap them out as needed.

[1] https://gsmarena.com/cat_s22_flip-11141.php

12312er13r2• 4 years ago

This phone selling point hides behind the fact that probably most apps won't run well on it :)

i handle corporate phones for a few ONGs. Blackberrys with keyboard are still somewhat supported on android, but even gmail (gmail! the main app from the main company behind android) have bugs that break main functionality (reading email!) because they do not care to test the odd screen size.

one of the largest use bases on tiktok are contractors. My guess is that this phone will be sold as a way to provide a work phone to employees which won't break and won't allow them to waste too much time.

CAT phones (and all cheap/rebranded phones listed as "corporate ready" by google) are already know for that to be honest. They are all behind android release versions even on launch day.

ranger_danger7• 4 years ago

Try it before you poo poo this phone. Every app I've tried runs perfectly on mine, even my favorite 3D pinball game (Zen Pinball).

ck2• 4 years ago

(spring-loaded) candybar slider would be superior...

Half as thick (no fold) yet protective cover

In other news they removed the last payphone from NYC this week.

happyopossum2• 4 years ago

Why would it be less thick? Each half still has to hold the same stuff - battery, screen, keypad, etc.

In my experience, the candy bar sliders I used in the past were thicker than flip phones.

Pxtl2• 4 years ago

Protective cover? Isn't the screen exposed in a candybar slider when closed? This is meant to be a jobsite phone so being fully closed is probably a pro.

throwaway4aday• 4 years ago

Not what I want in a flip phone at all. If I ever do make the switch to a flip phone it'll be to get away from all of the smart phone features. So that means no Android or iOS, just a basic feature phone "OS". Call and text only, no internet.

Syonyk• 4 years ago

You might like Sunbeam's offerings: https://sunbeamwireless.com/

They have some that are exactly what you want.

NoGravitas• 4 years ago

If I were to get a flip phone, it would be because I didn't want Android. This is a little weird to me.

xwdv• 4 years ago

If Apple made a flip phone I’d buy that. The reason I wouldn’t get something like this is just that it’s not in the ecosystem, and not privacy focused.

FaceTime calls on a flip phone would be pretty bad ass, as would getting my usual app notifications.

travisporter• 4 years ago

Lineage/Calyx/similar ports possible for such a device?

stratosmacker3• 4 years ago

GSI tested and working

rconti• 4 years ago

The thing I always hated about clamshell phones (I was a flip phone guy.. eg, Ericsson T28/T39) was the duplication of screens. It seemed so silly to need a 2nd screen to be able to see anything while it was closed. That said, for a rugged phone I sort of get it; you protect the fancy inner screen.

I always loved flip vs candybar because of the active answer/termination of the flip function. I guess that doesn't matter so much these days since I never talk on my phone.

ccbccccbbcccbb• 4 years ago

giving you access to ... security benefits of Android

As secure as Google's scout's honor about it, and as private as a mesh fence.

ramesh31• 4 years ago

The Cat S22 Flip takes the cell phone back to what it should be… a phone. Made for those who want a device as simple to use as it is tough, the Cat S22 Flip features physical buttons and a large touch screen, letting you choose how you interact with it. The Cat S22 Flip’s ‘Snap it to End it’ calling gives you confidence that when it is closed the call is over.

Yay!

Android™ 11 (Go Edition)

Yuck.

upupandup• 4 years ago

few things:

- there is a big bezel that is occupied by CAT logo

- impossible to type

- most smartphones are already quite durable, so it really isn't a killer feature.

- im confused as to who would use this. somebody working on an oil rig will likely appreciate more screen estate, ability to pinch zoom, type, etc.

Guillaume86• 4 years ago

impossible to type

T9?

etskinner2• 4 years ago

- impossible to type

T9 users from back in the day would like a word with you... assuming this has T9 or something similar.

Personally, I used to be able to type with greater accuracy and speed with T9 than any touchscreen typing or swiping around today. After you develop the muscle memory, it's lightning fast.

schroeding• 4 years ago

I would love a reboot of the Samsung Galaxy Folder 2[1]. Worked just like this phone, but looked way better, as it wasn't ruggedized and just a "normal" (well, as normal as a flip-phone can be today) phone.

Will probably never happen, though :D

[1] https://www.gsmchoice.com/de/katalog/samsung/galaxyfolder2/

smegsicle• 4 years ago

i guess if it's not claiming to be a 'multimedia device' no 3.5mm jack isn't that big of a downside

stratosmacker3• 4 years ago

I just bought one of these and installed a GSI from phhusson Unfortunately there are a few things that keep me from daily use with the GSI, notably the lid switch doesn't work without the stock firmware. Less importantly, the front screen also doesn't work, but I can deal with that. WIP https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/issues/2...

There is no T9 keyboard on F-Droid that I can find, and everything on the Play store is adware.

Last complaint is that it's thick AF. Yes all the reviews mention it. But it's the same WxL as my iphone SE 2016, and TWICE the thickness.

When I contacted CAT to retrieve the original ROM so I could fix the lid switch issue, I was met with "we do not redistribute ROMs outside of the company". Aside from the usual "You are not GPL compliant if you don't release your kernel now!" style response, this is an asshole move.

I want to like it, I want to use it, we'll see how much resolve I have to fix the aforementioned issues. Does anyone want an unlocked CAT S22 with a GSI installed? ;)

kk6mrp2• 4 years ago

I'm interested! But I'm not sure I like that big of flip phone. I really like the Kyocera e4710 form factor.

fencepost2• 4 years ago

Smart Keyboard Pro from dexilog.com maybe? Not updated since 2020, but I'm not sure what updates would be needed.

phh2• 4 years ago

LID switch fixed

smm11• 4 years ago

The world has changed when Cat Man pictured emphasizing manliness and durability of Cat Flip Phone has a ring in 'their' ear.

https://www.catphones.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Cat-S22...

higgins• 4 years ago

I used the CAT B35 all of last year (and some). Loved it. Battery lasted forever. Only pain points were in social scenarios bust most of those are mitigated with planning.

More on what I learned with the "dumb phone" experiment here: https://encapsulate.me/writing/2021.html

bdefig• 4 years ago

Am I the only one who thought this was going to be a flip phone startup in the Summer '22 YC batch?

gingersnap• 4 years ago

”I want a smartphone and a fliphone”

Thats a Cat(ch) 22

coryfklein• 4 years ago

My biggest impediment to downsizing my cell phone: maps and navigation. In my vehicle I need to have at least a moderately sized screen in order to navigate safely. And the device needs to have mobile internet access.

How do folks who are downsizing their cell phones work around this? Do you use a non-phone GPS in your car? Do you keep a larger cell phone around for "when you need it"?

zhobbs• 4 years ago

It's a pretty recent version of Android, it probably supports Android Auto. So if you have a newer car or an aftermarket Android Auto device it might be best of both worlds.

Nition• 4 years ago

Unfortunately not. It's running Android Go Edition, which doesn't support Android Auto.

IE6• 4 years ago

Anecdotally I have noticed that Android Auto is not supported properly on these oddball devices. I had a Unihertz Titan for a while and Android Auto refused to work properly and would just show a black screen. Of course with a Pixel phone it works fine.

ZoomStop• 4 years ago

Tech like Android Auto could solve for this in a natural feeling way. Did these CAT phones lack mobile data?

doublerabbit• 4 years ago

Had me excited thinking for it to not be an android phone.

I miss the days when companies made their own operating systems for their phones, with their own OS/Firmware. Using your friends phone which had a completly different set of features really made the expirence fun. Every year I would get a new phone for xmas and it was a whole new expirence.

Every phone was different but now when a new phone is released, it's just a new rectangle with X camera's we don't even need. All running the same bloated OS with less privacy and restrictions on customisability to boot.

takanori• 4 years ago

Why hasn’t push to talk (ptt) taken off on smartphones?

_carbyau_2• 4 years ago

I have a Nokia 7.2 with an extra button on the side. Not sure if it classifies as a PTT button.

But by default it was assigned to the Voice Assistant. Which I hated because an accidental press was a waste of time.

Once that association was removed I was relieved. It now does nothing.

LarryDarrell• 4 years ago

The thing is, I don't want Android smushed into a less useful, more fustrating to use, form factor. I want a dumbphone that calls, texts, and has a wifi hotpspot.

No battery draining screen, no app store, no navigation... if I need any of that, I can use the hotspot and a tablet/old phone...

torvald• 4 years ago

And some type of encrypting would be nice. I find it very exciting that The Punkt phone is picking up Signal at least.

https://boingboing.net/2021/04/08/the-best-dumbphone-gets-si...

ranger_danger7• 4 years ago

The S22 encrypts everything by default just like regular Android these days. And you can still run Signal or just about any other communication app you want.

dcdc123• 4 years ago

I feel like most people that want flip phones want something reliable and durable. I don't think shoving Android onto a tiny screen in a flip form factor accomplishes this.

paulcole• 4 years ago

This is the kind of thing everybody says they want until they discover it exists and then they’ll find a reason to not buy it.

npc12345• 4 years ago

They had me until "Android Go Edition"

scottrogowski2• 4 years ago

I'm currently reading Digital Minimalism from Cal Newton and have started preparing for a 30-day digital declutter. So I was really excited to read this title and immediately disappointed after clicking - the Cat phone has a web browser. If you have access to the entirety of the internet in your pocket, it is hard to limit yourself and no little trick or hack is going to actually help - in my experience.

I'll go ahead and take advantage of this post to ask, what do other digital minimalists on HN use for their phone? I'm looking for something with messages, maps, a camera, and WhatsApp with no access to a browser or an app store. The most difficult item on that list is definitely WhatsApp. Unfortunately, if you travel a lot (which I do) it's not really optional. Outside of North America, EVERYTHING happens on WhatsApp. I've started looking into custom Android ROMS but that feels like an extreme step for what must be a common problem?

maxerickson2• 4 years ago

I don't understand how what you are describing can also be minimalist.

It's some kind of aesthetic, but people used to do fine without digital maps or messaging.

sanderjd3• 4 years ago

Those things are useful tools but not mindless time sucks. You can't doom scroll for an hour in a maps or camera app.

barbs• 4 years ago

I could be wrong, but I imagine the number of people who need internet access for Maps and WhatsApp but NOT a web-browser would be pretty small.

That said, I could possibly recommend the Nokia 2720 flip, which I've been using it as a secondary phone for work, primarily just for calls and messages. It runs KaiOS and has WhatsApp and Maps installed, although it does also have an internet browser. That said, it's quite clunky to use with the numberpad, and you might be able to hack it to disable or remove it. There's a dedicated KaiOS hacking community which might be able to get you there[0]. Looking briefly, I think there's a hack that allows you to set a proxy for the web browser, so maybe you could set that to something useless?

I commend your efforts, and am curious to read that book you mentioned!

[0] https://next.bananahackers.net/

101011• 4 years ago

I think KaiOS is probably the closest thing that you can find. It will also have a browser, but trust me when I say that on most phones it's so slow and unusable that you won't be tempted to use it often.

I had a similar issue for myself, only my strongly desired application was Spotify (instead of WhatsApp). Ultimately I weaned myself off Spotify through a phone with KaiOS and ultimately I took the plunge on buying the Light Phone II.

It's a real bummer that there are so many limited solutions for things like this. FWIW, the contracted software company that worked on the Light Phone OS put together a blog post detailing how they used Android to build their phone here:

https://medium.com/sanctuary-computer-inc/building-lightos-w...

All of that is to say: when we refer to the LightOS, we are referring to “our custom fork of Android 8.1 that embeds a platform-signed React Native app as the default launcher” (amongst other drivers and low-level customizations).

sanderjd3• 4 years ago

I've been thinking about this too. I don't think this really exists. I think you really just have to use self control to avoid using the browser.

dotancohen2• 4 years ago

  > you really just have to use self control

Why is this skill no longer taught to children?

robgibbons• 4 years ago

You could just delete the apps you don't want.

https://android.stackexchange.com/a/231279

scottrogowski2• 4 years ago

This is actually really helpful. I'd be concerned that deleting the browser would result in other apps breaking but that's probably a risk worth taking.

conception• 4 years ago

The atom filled this niche for me - https://www.unihertz.com/products/atom

It’s a full phone, with a web browser, and you can do all the normal phone stuff with it but it’s size dissuades you from doing so. It’s functional to text or Spotify but annoying to spend a lot of time on the web with it. So in a pinch you can but you won’t want to.

john-doe• 4 years ago

Same thing (Jelly 2). Just had to learn "glide typing" but it's the best phone I ever had.

dotancohen2• 4 years ago

  > Outside of North America, EVERYTHING happens on WhatsApp.

I've never installed WhatsApp on my phone. If someone wants to communicate with me, it's either a phone call or Telegram. If the ability to converse is less important than installing Telegram, then apparently they didn't really need to talk to me.

For context, I'm a software developer. Other than the Jetbrains IDEs everything on my desktop is open source, and I've got no more than half a dozen apps installed on my Android device. I can almost get away without touching the the phone on weekends, save for the camera.

leksak• 4 years ago

Similar demands here, albeit a wee-bit different,

Messages (or perhaps preferably Signal) Maps Camera BankID Calendar.

thope• 4 years ago

I never switched to smartphones to not have internet in my pocket, and so I sticked to Sony Ericsson phones. Currently I use a 2010 Sony Ericsson Elm (J10i) which gives me SMS, phone, camera, and a few utilities : calendar, alarms, calculator, flashlight. Dimensions are 110.00 x 45.00 x 14.00 mm, I recharge once every ten days or so

jrochkind1• 4 years ago

I kind of want this.

What are the limitations of "android go", can you not install any arbitrary app?

bschwindHN• 4 years ago

I love how they're like "Oh yeah it's so tough, it can be dropped, dunked and washed regularly using the harshest of chemicals, bleaches and sanitizers."

"It's backed up with our 2 year warranty."

It's a cool looking phone but the warranty is hilariously short for what they claim you can do to it.

pabs3• 4 years ago

I wonder if you could run a Linux distro on this instead of Android.

nunez• 4 years ago

Damn that is a nice looking phone, actually. I hate typing on virtual keyboards; going back to something with buttons would be amazing

firexcy• 4 years ago

Is the name an (un)intentional pun on the catch-22 [0]?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(logic)

rekabis• 4 years ago

Still runs Android, so it will be obsolete and vulnerable long before any iOS phone.

Plus, it’s Android, so all your personal data and behaviour will be flowing to the mothership in volumes that will give the NSA and CIA some serious chubbies.

And then, it’s Android, so it has an App Store that sees more maliciously exploited and just plain malicious programs in a single year than Apple has had to work with with since theirs first opened.

If you’re gonna put out a traditional flip phone, do your users a favour and make it a non-smart feature phone that can stay dumb, not leak your entire life to an evil company, and is commensurately more difficult to infect with malware due to its dramatically smaller attack surface.

Just once I would love to see a dumb phone built on the same principles that OpenBSD uses. Simple, secure by default, and has nothing that isn’t absolutely needed for essential operations.

Cat S22 Flip Phone

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