Birth control pill for men could begin human trials later this year

https://www.popsci.com/health/new-male-birth-control-pill/

by tosh • 4 years ago

73 133 4 years ago

As a gay man, it's always a lot of fun to watch discussions on birth control for men. I personally have my money on that if/when they do launch for the public, they will be too expensive/difficult to get for basically forever, and women will continue to have to bear the cost of preventing pregnancies. "Men using birth control" would become the "hippie" thing to do that you will only see people in LA/NY do.

I am very glad this exists, though, and I hope I'm wrong.

dankboys• 4 years ago

Maybe, it’s a much harder job to produce male birth control for men owing to having much more reproductive material.

I think the hippy option currently is getting the snip “for the sake of the planet”

tshaddox• 4 years ago

"Men using birth control" would become the "hippie" thing to do that you will only see people in LA/NY do.

Assuming it's relatively safe, reliable, and affordable, and especially if it's significantly better in any of those areas to the existing options for women, then it seems like a no-brainer for long-term monogamous heterosexual relationships.

throw__away7391• 4 years ago

I think this is probably well correlated to a man's socioeconomic status.

brimble3• 4 years ago

Lots of guys have gotten vasectomies for decades, and I don't see a lot of correlation between making that choice and being a "hippie", in my family & friends circles.

emptysongglass2• 4 years ago

Straight man here. I have a solution to all this and it's the same solution many (though my understanding not all) gay men practice: anal sex.

It's all my wife and I do together. No pill needed! (Practice safe sex.)

Karawebnetwork3• 4 years ago

Still not 100% proof. Things such as internal fissures and external trickles can still cause pregnancies. Granted, the risks are very low.

philwelch2• 4 years ago

IMO that’s a similar tradeoff as condoms, though probably more cost-effective.

to1y2• 4 years ago

I think you are incredibly out of touch with reality. It is men that generally worry about unwanted pregnancies. If there was an on/off switch, almost all men would set it to 'off' and it'd quickly turn into women using any techniques available to get them to put it into the 'on' position.

mFixman• 4 years ago

As another gay man, I cannot help but compare the hypothetical case of a male birth control pill and the fast expansion of PrEP.

Extrapolating from that I would guess that saving unwanted pregnancies will make most governments and healthcare systems give male birth control for very cheap, which will cause an increase in STDs and a _big_ decrease in unwanted pregnancies.

4oo48• 4 years ago

There I think are a number of viable male birth control options already, but most of them never come to market. This is because it's nearly impossible to get men to invest in preventing the risk of pregnancy. Aside from condoms, unfortunately the vast majority of heterosexual men are programmed to offload that risk mitigation onto women.

insickness• 4 years ago

You underestimate most mens' willingness to avoid pregnancy. To a lot of men, there are few things more horrific than getting the wrong woman pregnant and being saddled with 18 years of child support payments and the ethical burden of 18 years of child-rearing.

4oo48• 4 years ago

Personally, I am a heterosexual male that would 100% take this if it's available, not sure why I was downvoted.

This isn't my personal opinion, I am actually just stating the opinion of pharmaceutical companies. If you search for male birth control, you'll see lots of stories like this over the past 5-10 years. So you need to ask yourself why there aren't any that we can currently go to our doctor for? The science is there but attitudes and market research are not.

We are a conscientious bunch here and not representative of the general population, sadly. Or at least, that's how pharmaceutical companies perceive that, and until that is successfully challenged I don't think any of these will be viable in a commercial sense, even if they are in a scientific one.

    Early trials of male hormonal birth control, usually in the form of injections, have shown that drugs are effective in preventing pregnancy, but pharmaceutical companies show little interest in developing or marketing them. But another obstacle is the unwillingness of men to endure the drug’s side-effects, and of the medical establishment to permit a drug with side-effects similar to those of women’s birth control from being given to men.

I would be really curious how the side-effects compare to female birth control, which are already pretty bad to begin with, and we just expect women to put up with.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/05/male-b...

4oo48• 4 years ago

I totally agree that most men want to avoid pregnancy, even if for selfish reasons instead of caring about their partners.

It's not a question of estimating willingness to prevent pregnancy which I don't underestimate at all, but rather estimating to what depths men are willing to go to prevent pregnancy, compared with what women are already expected to do, and this is a result of gender norms. As far I know, what we have to go on mainly consists of fuzzy signals sent by pharmaceutical company research preferences. If someone knows of some solid research on this topic I'd love to see it.

Femtio3• 4 years ago

You could have spend time in actually looking things up.

Wikipedia does not have any approved and working method as easy as a pill on it.

Also the pill is not that easy for woman either.

Don't put us man all in a bucket. You are not helping mitigating stereotypes

4oo48• 4 years ago

You could have also looked up all the available male birth control options that have been successfully developed and never sold within the last 5-10 years.

https://googlethatforyou.com?q=male%20birth%20control

Wikipedia is not the sole source of truth.

You are misidentifying me as either a misogynist and/or man-hater, please see my clarification.

xscott2• 4 years ago

I'm not sure where you get your information, but it feels like you have some other axe to grind.. Nearly every single man in my circle of friends has gotten a vasectomy. Several of us knew we never wanted children and would've gotten a vasectomy in our 20s if doctors would approve it.

henriquez4• 4 years ago

I just exclusively started having anal sex with dudes. It works wonders for preventing pregnancy and I usually don’t even need to buy them dinner first.

4oo48• 4 years ago

That's great, but sadly that's probably not representative at all. I have no axe to grind, I'm just stating the facts on why we don't have male birth control on the market.

Again, please don't make assumptions about my beliefs just because this is uncomfortable to hear.

jjtheblunt• 4 years ago

or has society (western anyway) for decades offloaded that risk mitigation onto women, so there's momentum to the asymmetry and new adults join an asymmetry already assumed?

henriquez4• 4 years ago

No I think actually most guys would prefer not to pay child support, but sure, let’s blame men for everything anyway in a thread about contraceptive options.

1270018080• 4 years ago

I feel like a headline like this has popped up every year for the last 15 years.

endisneigh3• 4 years ago

The article doesn’t explain what’s wrong with condoms.

Edit: lol didn’t realize this was just a controversial question

raziel2p• 4 years ago

Does it need to?

endisneigh3• 4 years ago

I’m just curious what problem this is solving. If you’re casually dating your partner has no guarantee you’re on the pill, so you have to use a condom anyway.

If you’re with another dude, you’d still want to use a condom for stds.

If you’re in a long term relationship and don’t want kids aren’t there already better options than this?

Under what circumstances would one use this over a condom?

dustymcp• 4 years ago

Condoms is still the better alternative if you dont know the person yet, it also protects against diseases, something these things dont do, nothing beats a good old condom :P

zinclozenge• 4 years ago

Up until now, all/most male birth control pills have centered around exogenous testosterone + progesterone/something else. Ignoring the other compound, exogenous testosterone supplementation would lead to all sorts of potential abuse since it's an anabolic steroid. There's also the fact that any oral formulation of testosterone (see dianabol for example) is extremely toxic on the liver, and leads to much higher levels of estradiol (which has its own side effects) due to homeostasis. The secondary compounds also have their own significant side effects, to the point where it really makes me wonder how bad hormonal birth control can be for women.

So this compound blocking vitamin A is a pretty novel approach.

bufbupa2• 4 years ago

The problem with male birth control pills is that it's the women who bear the bulk of the risk/responsibility when it comes to pregnancy. If a woman says "trust me, i'm on the pill" and lies -- they're the ones that get pregnant and likely get stuck raising the kid. Sure the father might be on the hook financially, but if the woman lied about their birth control and went forward with the pregnancy anyway it's not absurd to imagine the father bailing on the situation.

Flipped around the other way, if a man says "trust me, i'm on the pill", now a woman has to trust this man even though they're the one's at risk of getting pregnant. What's worse is that the woman can't easily verify if they did in fact take a pill. At least with a condom you can be check that it's being used properly..

This asymmetric risk profile makes me think think that male birth control pills won't work outside of trusting long-term relationships, and then there's better options than a chemical pill for those situations already.

bobro• 4 years ago

what better options do you mean?

melony• 4 years ago

A financial medallion

bufbupa2• 4 years ago

for long-term birth control a copper (non-hormonal) IUD might be a better option. You don't have to remember to take pills, and it's less chemically disruptive to the body. Or better yet a vasectomy if you never want kids.

xscott2• 4 years ago

Men can only "bail on the situation" when they don't have much to lose. Any man with a reliable job and good salary is very vulnerable to having wages garnished.

brailsafe• 4 years ago

Which is sad. Should be treated like sexual assault

6yyyyyy• 4 years ago

Why can't they both take the respective pill? That way nobody has to trust anyone else.

pessimizer• 4 years ago

That doesn't follow. You have to trust people to have taken the pill.

If the pill worked when you took it 5 minutes in advance of the act, you could both watch each other take it and find something else to do for five minutes. That's not the case.

aeturnum• 4 years ago

More options are always better. It's common that hormonal birth control won't work for someone, so it's great that we are creating more configurations. You're also correct that the person who is going to get pregnant is the more invested party and the one who is going to suffer the consequences from improper preparations.

FalconSensei4• 4 years ago

You're also correct that the person who is going to get pregnant is the more invested party and the one who is going to suffer the consequences from improper preparations.

Depending on the country/state you are in. If abortion is legalized, you can do that. And then, if you know you won't get an abortion either because local regulations forbid, or it goes against your beliefs, then you have to weight in your risks and make your decisions, like combining birth control methods for example.

Now, in places where abortion is legalized, women are the only ones with the power to stop the pregnancy, and the guy needs to face their decision. They can't bail (at least, financially)

dgellow• 4 years ago

and then there's better options than a chemical pill for those situations already

What are the better options? Male condoms have a "typical use failure rate" of 13%, and a "perfect use failure rate" of 2%. Which isn't really good compared to chemical contraceptives like the pill.

You can see numbers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_me...

ravenstine• 4 years ago

So your point would be... what? Women already have birth control and still can take it. A male birth control pill helps prevent the opposite situation where she "forgot" to take the pill, or the small chance that a fertilized egg stays attached, henceforth putting the man on a financial hook. What you wrote here comes off as a case of "women most affected" since you're implying there's an asymmetric risk profile that doesn't already exist for men. Somehow having a more leveled playing field only works in long-term relationships? If anything, it's a greater benefit in short-term relationships since you can be assured that even if a condom fails the chance of pregnancy would be scant.

hibikir• 4 years ago

Other than condoms, birth control (used mostly as birth control, not as menstrual regulation) is mostly relegated to trusting long term relationships already: STDs exist. So whether this is better or worse than the pill for women engaging in casual sex is probably not all that big of a deal: If you are trusting someone's recent STD panel results, you are still putting quite a bit of trust in them.

Now, saying there are better options in those long relationships is quite the claim. There's a non insignificant percentage of women that have serious side effects with hormonal birth control: Mood changes and reduced sex drive are crippling, if you are unlucky enough to find yourself in that category. Surgical approaches aren't great if you see a possibility of wanting to change your mind later.

So there's definitely a market for male birth control, if it has few side effects. Will it sell as much as once a trimester hormonal treatments for women? probably not, but you are assuming there's no market there.

FalconSensei4• 4 years ago

here's a non insignificant percentage of women that have serious side effects with hormonal birth control: Mood changes and reduced sex drive are crippling, if you are unlucky enough to find yourself in that category. Surgical approaches aren't great if you see a possibility of wanting to change your mind later.

absolutely agreed, If there are pills and procedures for both sides, whoever has bad side effects (or risks for a surgery) can opt-out, and the other partner will do it. Or both can combine, decreasing the risk of pregnancy even more

sacrosancty2• 4 years ago

Not exactly. Women have the power to choose abortion but men don't. Men however are liable for financially supporting the child. The greater risk is with the man.

There are a lot of men who would love to have the confidence of not having to trust every woman he sleeps with. "Stealing" babies from men and the fear of that is real.

FalconSensei4• 4 years ago

Exactly. Of course, depending on country/state, the regulations vary. But at least here in Canada, if birth control fails, the woman can get an abortion. What happens is that often they don't, but you can't say the option is not there. (again: depending on local regulations, but assuming you are somewhere with this option)

0xdeadb00f• 4 years ago

Not exactly. Women have the power to choose abortion but men don't. Men however are liable for financially supporting the child. The greater risk is with the man.

I find brushing off abortion like this a tad ridiculous. Sure one could say the 'risk' is greater. But abortion carries with it emotional, and physical trauma, not to mention a lot of women are still met with shameful looks in today's society for doing so. It isn't an easy process, and I think comparing it with financial liability like this is a bit.. "Insensitive", I think the word is.

Even still, some women are not comfortable with abortion. And in that case they will be taking a greater risk.

Like I see what you're saying, but I don't think the comparison between abortion and financial liability is something we should be doing.

klyrs9• 4 years ago

Women have the power to choose abortion but men don't.

Not exactly. Abortion is criminalized in multiple states now. In other states, the father needs to be identified and consent to the abortion. It's also stigmatized and many women don't have a free choice in the matter -- in some religious communities, a woman who seeks an abortion does so at the risk of excommunication, disowning or even beatings/murder.

Karawebnetwork3• 4 years ago

Everyone should be responsible for their own bodies. The fact that men now have access to the pill does not mean that women will have to stop taking theirs and suddenly leave the risks of pregnancy to others.

Now both will be able to take it. Each individual will be able to choose the level of risk that is right for them.

If you are a woman who is comfortable with the risk, you can stop the pill and trust your partner. If you are not, you can take the pill yourself.

If you are a man who is comfortable with the risk, you can stop the pill and trust your partner. If you are not, you can take the pill yourself.

This is also a great option for stable relationships where the woman cannot take hormone-based pills. The man can simply take this non-hormonal pill and the couple will be protected from unplanned pregnancy.

confidantlake2• 4 years ago

I don't understand this take. If a woman doesn't want a kid she can get an abortion. If a man doesn't want a kid he better hope the woman feels the same or he is screwed. Women have almost all the power in this situation.

igetspam4• 4 years ago

Not in Texas or the other states following suit. Not sure if you're American or not but women are having the right to choose stripped a lot lately. None of us will have any power soon.

sircastor• 4 years ago

I once came across this statement, which has stuck with me: “All unwanted pregnancies are the result of irresponsible ejaculations.” And I haven’t been able to figure a situation that refutes that. The idea that a woman somehow has power in this situation misrepresents power dynamics and the reality of gender inequality in our society. If men don’t want a kid, or don’t want to risk a pregnancy, it is not difficult to avoid.

silicon2401• 4 years ago

This underplays the risks men face. As a woman, you can take bc and protect yourself against crazy guys who would ditch in the case of a pregnancy. Male bc would similarly protect men against women who would lie about being on bc

igetspam4• 4 years ago

Ah yes. We can protect ourselves from the least likely scenario. Good... good...

Do people really think this is so common that we need to consider it a possibility in almost any case? It keeps being brought up but it's highly unlikely, outside of daytime talk shows.

foogazi• 4 years ago

If a woman says "trust me, i'm on the pill" and lies

The guy can now mitigate the risk by being on the pill himself

igetspam4• 4 years ago

I would assume that the male pill is targeted more toward people in relationships. Condoms prevent more than just the one side effect of intercourse, where a pill does nothing for STDs. After our first kid, my wife told me to go get clipped. I didn't hesitate for a second and now I'm happily unable to procreate again. On the other hand, my wife has regretted that decision for years. Selfishly, I love the fact that I don't have to argue about it but had she not been so quick to react to the unpleasantness of pregnancy, I probably would have caved and we'd have two kids. Had a pill been available, she almost certainly would have opted for that. (Birth control pills and devices have caused her serious medical problems in the past, so it's not a viable option.)

scotty794• 4 years ago

If a woman says "trust me, i'm on the pill" and lies -- they're the ones that get pregnant and likely get stuck raising the kid. Sure the father might be on the hook financially, but if the woman lied about their birth control and went forward with the pregnancy anyway it's not absurd to imagine the father bailing on the situation.

And yet there are whole discussion boards dedicated to the subject how to best catch a man by getting yourself pregnant by him against his will.

I couldn't find a single one for men on how to catch a women by getting her pregnant against her will.

sascha_sl2• 4 years ago

Then you didn't look hard enough.

beezle• 4 years ago

Will be interesting to track the increase in STDs as condom use by men declines with uptake of male birth control pills.

adalu• 4 years ago

Why would I take poison to make me infertile? This is beyond stupid

beegeearreff• 4 years ago

Don’t worry too much about this topic. Having sex is a requirement for it to be relevant.

TSiege3• 4 years ago

Is there any reason that the medical industry is pushing medicinal therapies to prevent pregnancy when a very promising procedure called vasalgel is just hanging on the vine? It is 1) highly effective, 2) non-hormonal/non-medicinal just a minor injection into the vas deferens 3) long lasting and reversible 4) dirt cheap.

It's mind boggling how this has been able to progress beyond animal trials even though it's performed so well and been studied for over a decade. I've been waiting for any sign of progress but it's glacial. This could really improve the lives of men and their partners. Women wouldn't need the pill, which so many of the women I know hate and as a one time procedure is much more error free.

https://www.revolutioncontraceptives.com/vasalgel

8f2ab37a-ed6c• 4 years ago

I came here to post the same thing. I don't understand what's holding vasalgel from becoming ubiquitous and approved by various medical institutions out there. It's been in the works for what feels like forever.

janitha• 4 years ago

Profitability?

A cheap one time procedure (ie. vasalgel) is far less lucrative than a pill that need to be bought repeatedly.

TSiege3• 4 years ago

This has been my assumption as well. You'd think this would be a project the Gates foundation would jump on though

Karawebnetwork3• 4 years ago

reversible

But requires a visit to the doctor. While a pill can simply be stopped at any time to achieve a pregnancy.

In my opinion, the idea of eating a "magic pills" is easier to swallow than the idea of "injecting cement into a pipe". One adds to your body, the other modifies it (if ever slihtly).

TSiege3• 4 years ago

I know several women who have used IUDs or implanted birth control. Vasalgel is like an IUD except its not a painful procedure. If a man wants to take a pill that tampers with his bodies normal biological functions go ahead, but I'd prefer a non painful approach that I can use for 5 years without thinking about it and get it set up and removed in maybe 2 hours total?

NotPractical• 4 years ago

I legitimately think Vasalgel will make history as one of the greatest advancements in human history, if it proves to be what it claims. It effectively provides men with an "on/off" switch for sperm production, without doing weird things to your hormones, without the trouble of remembering to take a pill.

I too am curious why research/development on it seems to have slowed. I wonder if it's possible to make a donation.

tcj_phx• 4 years ago

This problem is solved, just not in pill form.

There's an old solution that allows men to reduce their sperm count, down to an effective-zero: raise the temperature of the testicles to be body temperature.

In ancient times bread bakers were known to not father as many children, until they stopped working the ovens. The heat shock protein disrupts sperm production for longer periods of time. HSP forms at 104 degrees, iirc.

One of my previous comments about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28023798

akvadrako• 4 years ago

Sounds like playing demanding games with a laptop on your lap would also work.

simonblack• 4 years ago

The thing about Birth Control for Men is that there's no penalty for lying.

Men aren't the ones who get pregnant after saying "Of course I'm on the Pill, darling."

Women who believe that are as bad/stupid/dumb as the ones who believe a man who says "Trust Me".

cozos• 4 years ago

It would for sure be an asshole thing to do, but men don't really have anything to gain by getting a woman pregnant right? If anything it's a liability (child support payments)

cosmodisk• 4 years ago

I think you'd be surprised how many out there just want to 'sow the seed' for the sake of it.

staticman2• 4 years ago

An abusive man can try to prevent a woman from leaving him by getting her pregnant.

Even if she leaves she'll have to continue to interact with him if he gets partial custody.

He can also threaten to make sure she has her child taken away if she leaves him and threaten to lie to the court about her fitness as a parent.

This works better if the local religion or government is anti abortion.

Justin_K• 4 years ago

The same could be said about women. They get pregnant and are entitled to child support.

powersnail• 4 years ago

What would be motivation, though?

vmception2• 4 years ago

What I love about reversible male birth control is that all of the conjecture simply disappears after it becomes available

90% of the comments if this thread simply become comedy

In any case I’m very curious about this Vitamin A solution

vmception2• 4 years ago

experimental compound that blocks proteins from binding to vitamin A, also known as retinoic acid

thoughts? anything we should know about retinoic acid?

Birth control pill for men could begin human trials later this year

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