My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

https://www.nathanlippi.com/blog/digital-dojo

by frant1c • 4 years ago

272 264 4 years ago

auslegung• 4 years ago

This is very intriguing. I can see myself using this during my lunch break where otherwise I just watch YouTube videos. I’d love to hear others’ experience. Anyone else here do this, or know of other articles like this?

I’d prefer not to buy anything from Facebook for privacy issues, though…

berberous• 4 years ago

VR is a good workout, but to be honest, I still find the headsets unpleasant enough to not want to use this over other forms of exercise. The headsets are too heavy, moving vigorously cause them to move and lose your visual sweetspot, they got hot, the foam interface gets sweaty and gross, etc. And for the amount of time I spend on screens, I’d rather go for a run outside and enjoy the fresh air.

But I could see most of the above being improved in a few generations such that it’s a really great exercise option.

Freaken3• 4 years ago

The stock headset definitely needs to be upgraded for this kind of application.

I own a BoboVR headband with an external battery, which helps balance the weight of the headset. I had the elite strap with external battery and the BoboVR is much more comfortable for me. It’s also leatherette instead of foam, so much easier to clean.

I also have a fan (BoboVR F2) attached to the face mask in order to prevent condensation and overall I get a great experience even when I drip of sweat after exercising.

mchaynes• 4 years ago

If you have the oculus quest, put on the silicon/rubber piece over the foam. I’m pretty sure that’s how they intended people to use it.

I just had the foam for a while as well and it was disgusting.

zeta0134• 4 years ago

I've been using Beat Saber as a cardio mixup, though I agree with the sentiment that the headset gets a little stuffy. My bigger issue with VR in general is that the tethered PC experience has a lot of friction. The Oculus has more "pick up and go" power, but Facebook is a hard pass, so I'm patiently waiting for some other company (anyone, really) to come out and compete with a similar form factor.

VR doesn't replace exercise for me; my regular routine involves weights, but it compliments it nicely on my off days. I think it's good to mix in, but wouldn't want to rely on it as the sole form of exercise. Maybe that's just me; I can't do the same thing every day, and since weight training requires a strict routine, cardio is where I mix things up for spice.

spywaregorilla2• 4 years ago

I have an index and have done a bit of beat saber. I wouldn't really recommend it for exercise. Beat saber specifically, can be exhausting, but it doesn't require much more than moving your arms for most levels. You may soon learn to adapt and actually just move your wrists more than your arms. I can do all but 5 or so of the base content songs on expert+ and while I do enjoy and recommend the game, I cannot say its a great idea for exercise.

Being out of breath isn't actually great evidence of of a good exercise. A few things I particularly dislike:

* Headset gets sweaty

* Content that requires you to perform well can be harder to do when tired, so the exercise part gets less and less as you just fail. Yeah, you can tweak settings to not auto lose, but if the gamification of your exercise stops working then you might as well just do real exercise. This goes the other way too in that you may just get too good at the game and the gamification part is gone for all but the most extremely difficult pieces of content.

sli3• 4 years ago

You may soon learn to adapt and actually just move your wrists more than your arms.

I'm not convinced that someone learning that they can cheat themself out of the exercise, and then doing it, is a proper criticism of Beat Saber.

Freaken3• 4 years ago

I do pretty much the same thing. I own a Quest 2 and I play Pistol whip, Thrill of the fight and Moon rider (a free VR game which is played in the browser where you need to hit blocks with your hands synced to music).

The only issue I have with Thrill of the fight is that when I get into it, I hit hard, but find no resistance as I would hitting a punching bad or sparring with someone, so my elbow tends to overextend and I feel some pain for a couple days after playing for about 30 minutes. That’s something that will probably get better over time as I gain more control, but as of now, that’s something I need to be careful of.

jedberg• 4 years ago

If you tie an elastic around your elbow and hold it in your hand or hold one around your back and in both hands, you won't overextend your elbow and it should give you the resistance you are looking for.

Freaken3• 4 years ago

Will try that for sure. Thanks!

CobaltFire• 4 years ago

I was gifted a punching rig for exactly this type of workout a few years ago. You’ll find them around a few types of gyms sometimes (MMA, Military). It’s similar to what was mentioned elsewhere (elastic wrapped around body) except as an actual rig that is adjustable for resistance and reach.

raducu2• 4 years ago

I loved Thrill of the Fight. I sweat like a pig on it.

Too bad I get obsessed with fast knockout punches and my shoulders hurt like hell after a couple of days.

I also learnt the hardway you cannot outrun a bad diet. I would routinely burn 600+ callories in Thrill of the Fight only to get extremely hungry after and eat double what I've burnt.

For me weight training is better than cardio because I don't get the same hunger afterwards, on the countrary, if I do it late in the evening I can't eat at all. I also can't sleep afterwards.

I also became obsessed with shooting/hunting simulators and haven't done any exercise in VR for a long time.

germinalphrase• 4 years ago

Recommendations on shooting/hunting sims?

umutisik2• 4 years ago

I had the same issue at first, but I was able to overcome it by being careful to not fully extend my elbows and using the jab less often.

jerry_tk• 4 years ago

Looks like it is also possible to buy "punch limiting" harness. Here is an example search on Ali: https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-expander-boxing.html

michaelbuckbee• 4 years ago

For others that are interested in VR fitness games, here's a few more suggestions:

- SuperHot: while less cardio focused at the higher levels it really has you doing a lot of slow, deep squats and stretches as you dodge and move around. I recommend trying to do the "Whole game in 10 minutes" mode as that's an easy chunk of time to spend. It's been great to loosen up my back after being at the desk for too long or as a quick way to get over the sleepiness of a big lunch.

- Synthriders: a lot of people know BeatSaber already, but I prefer this as the music is more vaporwave and there's a more varied move set and better 360 mode.

- The Climb 1+2: more a pleasant mental break than anything else, but fun.

jsf01• 4 years ago

I’d throw in pistol whip as a cardio recommendation to anyone that enjoys superhot. A few back to back rounds at a higher difficulty will get you moving and squatting a lot

CoastalCoder• 4 years ago

I've really enjoyed "Until you Fall" on the Index.

Most first-person VR games (including Half-life Alex) make me motion-sick. But for some reason that doesn't happen with Until you Fall. I really hope they make a sequel or similar game.

sli3• 4 years ago

Most people can grind through motion sickness. If you're willing to deal with feeling queasy for a night or two, it's worth the effort. I wasn't able to handle continuous motion in VR until I decided to just play through Boneworks repeatedly until I could handle it. Ended up only taking about 20 minutes and I've been good ever since.

baby4• 4 years ago

Superhot got me into all sorts of weird position. I hated it on PC, but in VR it’s an incredible experience

blensor4• 4 years ago

For the fitness focused experiences

RealFit, Hitmotion Reloaded, Les Mills Bodycombat, Thrill of the Fight, VRWorkout Bootcamp, FitXR, PowerBeatsVR, Supernatural ( if you are in the US), Holofit or VZFit (if you have a rower/bike), Happy Run, Hitstream, OhShape

and many more

jakecraige• 4 years ago

Another vote for SynthRiders here. I have the same complaint about Beat Saber as OP. Can be done with wrist flicks and be lazy

Synth Riders forces you to have to move your body and do large sweeping motions, it feels like dancing, AND it has online multiplayer with voice chat which regularly has groups hanging out and playing for fun

That last part makes it so much more enjoyable for me

sanj• 4 years ago

I’ve been enjoying supernatural for the last few months.

When I focus on form, I’m just a little sore from pushing myself past my comfort zone.

Most importantly, it gets me out of bed because I look forward to the 20min of zen and focus I get while listening to great music.

blakeinate• 4 years ago

If you enjoy supernatural, I highly recommend PowerBeatsVR. It's not nearly as polished as supernatural, but the workout configuration options are very effective, plus no subscription fees.

bgroins• 4 years ago

Seconded. It can use some work but I do enjoy the ability to add my own music and workout to a favorite album with the playlist option.

tawan3• 4 years ago

Shameless plug: if you are into VR fitness but you think the existing solutions are missing multiplayer options, my brother and I are building Space Punch [1] which is a multiplayer fitness app. It is currently released in early access on Sidequest, and it’s functional. We are working out Monday to Friday 4:30pm UTC. If you have a Quest and want to work out together as group, then drop into our Discord sever. I’ll personally make sure you get an access key and I will show you the App from within.

[1] https://sidequestvr.com/app/5820/space-punch

[2] https://discord.gg/MKsZqrZh

vyrotek• 4 years ago

Looks fun! Reminds me a lot of Blaston which I love and is indeed quite a workout with all the dodging.

https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/2307085352735834/

tawan3• 4 years ago

Thanks! Yep, I also played Blaston a while and really liked it. We basically replaced shooting with a gun with punching in order to make it even more intense.

In addition we also want to build out the social part and create a community of Space Punchers that work out together and motivate each other to stick to a regular schedule. I find it really fascinating how immersive VR can be and really make you think that you are in the same place with your friends. If we can translate this energy into forming a healthy habit of working out regularly with a community than we are on a good path.

zmmmmm7• 4 years ago

Perhaps because I'm an introvert, but never quite understood the motivation for social exercise in VR. Half the advantage of it is that I can work out on my own time, in private without being coupled to fixed schedules or other people's expectations.

JonathanFly2• 4 years ago

Same motivation as social exercise generally. It can make a mundane task more fun.

gruturo• 4 years ago

Peer pressure (hopefully in a positive way), fun, distraction from the boredom of the exercise. The better memories you form of the event, the less likely you are to seek excuses to skip the next session.

watwut5• 4 years ago

Fixed schedule is one possible system that will push you to keep going even while you go through demotivated period. Same with "other people's expectations". Seeing other people exercise is motivating for a lot of people. And being seen is one more nudge to actually do it today. Moreover, many people are motivated by competition. That does not need to be official competition or large scale one. Pretty often it is just "I want to keep doing it as long as him" or "I think I could get bigger score then mx123Throwaway". For many people, the social aspect is what turns activity from "boring chore I do because I think I have to" to "I actually like doing it".

Underappreciated aspect of long term exercising is "how to keep doing it long term" and "how to prevent it from becoming yet another annoying dot on my todo list".

AniseAbyss• 4 years ago

My fitness center is located next to a McDrive. Seeing that is enough to motivate me. Don't want to be fat.

celdon25• 4 years ago

Quest only?

tawan3• 4 years ago

At the moment yes.

blensor4• 4 years ago

Shameless plug plug

If you want to join a hand tracking based full body group workout you can join our daily session in VRWorkout ( 7AM GMT+1/10 PM Pacific)

For audio chat send me a friend request (oculus) to: xrworkout.io because we are still ironing out some flaws of our audiochat in GodotEngine

[1] https://xrworkout.io [2] https://github.com/mgschwan/VRWorkout

foolfoolz3• 4 years ago

the most outlandish thing about this post is waking up at 5:30am to work

ryanklee• 4 years ago

What's outlandish about it? Some people wake up on the early side for all sorts of reasons -- disposition, physiology, mix of responsibilities requires it, household functioning, kids, etc., etc.

There are many different kinds of people in this world. It pays to think of all the reasons there might be for even one single behavior.

foolfoolz3• 4 years ago

because waking up and putting your first effort to your job seems misplaced if you have such strong personal goals such as daily working out. what’s more important, your job or yourself?

montag• 4 years ago

Not just work. Deep Work.

antiterra• 4 years ago

If you ever want someone to work early, a lot of ex-military just naturally run on an earlier schedule like that. People who run for a hobby tend to start early too.

tluyben2• 4 years ago

Been starting work at 5 am (which is now where I live) for a few years now. I was usually the person who would check in for work around 11 am the past 30 years. That was a bit of a mistake in hindsight; my body and mind like this early time far more; I get far more from my day now that my focused coding time ends around 11 instead of starts and the rest of the day I get to do mostly hobbies (including VR workouts). Somehow, in the past 30 years, including when I got up around 8, I missed about 3 hours of very valuable focus time which I was not possible to get for some reason until getting up when the rooster starts crowing (we have a rooster and it's doing that now).

I have to continue during the weekend (obviously as it is Sunday now) or I move out of the rhythm but that works fine too.

usrusr3• 4 years ago

I late-rise with the best of them, but 5:30 still pales next to 'My 25-year direction is to "facilitate innovation."'

But, well, if it works for them - I suppose it correlates with likelihood of writing a blog?

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

I used to do it all the time. Up At 5, at Starbucks around 5:30, out by 7:30. Or wait for the gym to open at 6, or maybe an early morning run. Mornings used to be great, but then I had a kid and the pandemic hit and it will take awhile to go back to see them.

kitsunesoba4• 4 years ago

One thing that’s good to point out to anybody looking to get into VR for fitness is that Beat Saber becomes radically more challenging when playing custom community-made maps instead of the stock/DLC maps. The higher difficulty community maps require a lot of speed, precision, and stamina, and I’m only beginning to be able to play them decently after a few months of practice. It’s almost an entirely different game.

Unfortunately, support for custom maps/mods for the standalone Quest version of the game is not great, so it’s best to play the PC version if the community maps are of interest (which can be done with a Quest via PC link).

rahimnathwani3• 4 years ago

Where's the best way to get started with these community mods.

I have:

1. A Quest 2

2. A PC with an RTX 20XX graphics card (usually running Linux, but can boot into Windows 10) and USB C port

3. Beat Saber (standalone version)

I guess I need:

4. A long USB C cable (or the official one)?

5. Beat Saber for PC (best to buy on Oculus or Steam?)

6. Some instructions for finding, installing and using these community mods.

Is there a particular place (e.g. Reddit community) that's the best place to find 'getting started' info?

kitsunesoba4• 4 years ago

That PC should be more than adequate.

I wouldn’t personally recommend the official link cable — it’s expensive, and in my case it was flaky. I’m currently using a cable made by Cable Matters[0] that works well.

Most people buy the Steam version, though either can work. I personally lean more towards Steam so if I change headsets to something non-Facebook (like Valve’s rumored upcoming quest competitor), I can still play Beat Saber without a second purchase or weird hacks.

For installing mods, ModAssistant[1] has worked well for me. It’s pretty foolproof; the “standard” mods are pre-selected for installation by default, so for a minimal setup just open ModAssistant, point it at your Beat Saber installation, and install the standard mod set. From there you can search and install custom maps in-game.

I don’t have too many other useful links for you, but r/beatsaber on Reddit is pretty active and good for asking questions that haven’t already been covered by that subreddit’s wiki.

[0] https://www.cablematters.com/blog/Virtual-Reality/oculus-que...

[1] https://github.com/Assistant/ModAssistant

acemarke• 4 years ago

The Quest 2 works as-is - you can mod it. See these resources:

- Quest dev mode instructions: https://uploadvr.com/sideloading-quest-how-to/

- BeatSaber custom modding instructions: https://bsaber.com/oculus-quest-custom-songs/

- Custom community BeatSaber songs: https://bsaber.com

- AI-generated maps from any uploaded MP3: https://beatsage.com/

BeatSage's results are hit and miss. I've uploaded a dozen of my favorite trance songs - some turned out completely unplayable, several actually worked out pretty well.

bibabaloo• 4 years ago

4. A long USB C cable (or the official one)?

Airlink works surprisingly well and it's so much nicer to play wirelessly. You might need to connect a wireless (AC or better) access point to your computer if your existing wifi AP is in a different room, though.

philjohn2• 4 years ago

I started with the official cable, but honestly, it's not teenager proof and it's expensive to replace when the USB-C connector on the end is ripped out vigorously.

I'm now using an active booster one from Amazon that was about £20.

invalidator2• 4 years ago

I'm several months into using Beat Saber as an exercise routine. Yes, add-on maps are a necessity, not just for the challenge, but also to keep things interesting.

I don't find high difficulty levels to be great exercise. I can keep up fine, but I get lulled into using little wrist flicks instead of sweeping arcs.

The best tracks for me are ones which aren't technically challenging. Instead, I get my whole body into it - dancing the whole time, stepping to the side so I can take a wide swing, shakin' my butt to the groove... That all gets my heart pounding, and works a much wider range of muscles. I've also turned the HUD off so I don't focus on my score, instead loosening up and having a good time.

The Claws mod also helps me a lot. You only get about half the range of the normal sabers so you have to move your arms farther to reach the blocks. It also makes you use a wider range of muscles, which has stopped some of the RSI I was feeling from too many wrist flicks earlier.

It's not perfect exercise. I could feel my body improve a lot early on, but then it plateaued and I don't see an easy way to push it much farther. However, I'm happy with where it's gotten me, and I intend to keep with it for the foreseeable future. It's fun, and it's convenient so I have no problem doing it for 45 minutes every day, and those are valuable attributes.

baby4• 4 years ago

Interesting, I felt like the better I got at beat saber the less effort I would make, whereas DDR type of games made me sweat to no end. But I didn’t try to apply myself to easy tracks. I think there’s gotta be a better game than beat saber than can be developed that puts you into weird positions. Playing superhot on the quest was the game that really put me into weird positions.

westoncb3• 4 years ago

The best tracks for me are ones which aren't technically challenging. Instead, I get my whole body into it - dancing the whole time, stepping to the side so I can take a wide swing, shakin' my butt to the groove...

Exactly. Once I could beat everything on expert I ended up losing interesting because expert+ felt like a different game: seemed much more wrist-oriented, which I have zero interest in. I'd like to find more maps that optimize around the criteria you've mentioned, but haven't put effort into it.

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

Beat Saber isn’t really designed for exercise but you can raise intensity by keeping your wrists fixed and by imagining you are wielding two really having blades. You have to imagine yourself glaiving the blocks in two rather than simply touching them so they fall apart. The same mental tricks are needed with the more fitness oriented rhythm boxing games.

hackernewds• 4 years ago

how do you download these custom DLCs for the Oculus?

rideontime• 4 years ago

Do you play the PC version via quest link? Wondering how it performs given the unavoidable latency bump.

kitsunesoba4• 4 years ago

I use the wired link. Compared to a Rift CV1, latency is a bit higher but not by much, and it’s easily adjusted for in Beat Saber’s settings.

gkfasdfasdf• 4 years ago

What happens when you get sweaty?

tootie2• 4 years ago

You get sweaty. The silicon spacer helps make it easier to cleanup. I usually have a small room fan blowing directly on me when I VR.

beeskneecaps3• 4 years ago

if you have the stock cloth piece in your headset, it gets disgusting and you'll have acne by day 3. No way to clean it unless you buy the aftermarket eye piece that isn't porous.

I tried working out in VR but realized that working out in RR is way more fun.

fouc3• 4 years ago

RR.. Real Reality? Funny. I'm gonna remember that one.

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

The stock foam gasket that comes with the quest is definitely porous and easy enough to wash under water. What headset are you talking about? I can’t imagine how horrible it must have been, was it attached to a PC with a wire?

ianbutler• 4 years ago

I’ve been doing workouts in VR for over two years now and it’s my preferred for HIIT and Cardio in general. I do mix in elliptical and treadmill sometimes but I’ve found VR far more convenient, just get up turn around put the headset on, start the tracker on my watch and get going versus going out to the gym in my building. Every reduction of friction helps me keep working out. FitXR and Thrill of The Fight are my gotos and I typically maintain 150-170bpm workouts between 3-4 times per week for 40-50minutes. With a resting heart rate in the 50s and around a 7 minute mile time I’d say it’s doing the job for someone who’s not trying to be an elite athlete just keep in shape while working a desk job. I’m 27 for context.

Cycl0ps• 4 years ago

For anyone wanting additional info, the VR Health Institute has been reviewing games by their intensity and estimates calorie burn per minute of playing.

https://vrhealth.institute/vr-ratings/

tootie2• 4 years ago

A lot of people love Thrill of the Fight for exercise. It's funny because it isn't really directed exercise, it's a boxing sim. You can take it slow but the game makes you feel like you have no choice but to punch for your life. It gets you really worked up.

I actually ended up with a bit of repetitive strain from throwing hooks and had to switch to Supernatural. It's a monthly fee but it's more purpose-built for exercise.

sli3• 4 years ago

Thrill of the Fight has an adaptive punch power setting that lets you play it at a lower intensity, that might help you.

crorella• 4 years ago

slightly unrelated, but it seems tripp [1] is also a nice approach to meditation using VR

1. https://www.tripp.com/

blhack2• 4 years ago

I recently (today!) started playing vzfit, which is a bicycle simulator.

You get in an exercise bike (with a cadence tracker, which is a device thag measures pedal movement) and ride through 3D environments via google street view. It’s really, really cool.

Also, best saber is great for getting a little sweaty. So is holopoint.

adenta• 4 years ago

Consider checking out Holofit. When I tried both 18 months ago, Holofit was leaps and bounds better, and I still use it daily.

blhack2• 4 years ago

I will check that out, thank you!

pmarreck• 4 years ago

Has anyone solved the ventilation problem for headsets yet? I seem to be convinced that the right light-absorbent baffles that still allow air through are possible, but no one seems to have attempted this in a product

rolandr• 4 years ago

I didn’t really believe it would work until I tried it, but having a fan blowing on you at high speed works to cool your whole body, including inside the headset. I no longer experience fogging of lenses or sweat dripping down into my eyes, which previously would become a problem after 15 minutes of intense activity. An added bonus is that the breeze can give you a sense of which direction you’re facing.

makeitdouble• 4 years ago

There are face interfaces with the ventilation holes set above that don’t leak light. Must be the hole angles, the ones I use seem to be fine (can’t provide links, they come from a random vendor on Aliexpress).

I believe the versons with fans also don’t leak light.

SirZimzim• 4 years ago

Can't say ventilation has been an issue for me on the Quest 2, I have a pleather type face cover and there is a hole by the nose area so it's not an air tight seal. I have done many long sessions with it.

JonathanFly2• 4 years ago

I turn on an overhead and a box fan, and use upgraded facial interface, and disposable covers if I'm going especially hard.

crashingintoyou• 4 years ago

What worked for me to avoid fogging is to wear the headset kind of like a visor for a few minutes before starting your workout, which warms it such that I haven't worried about fogging much since (which initially was a problem).

There is, e.g, the BOBOVR F2 which will add a battery-powered fan to your Quest 2 to add some venting, but I haven't personally tried it.

nsxwolf• 4 years ago

I can't get into VR boxing. I have both Thrill of the Fight and Rocky. It never feels like you're really landing any punches. You're basically shadow boxing, which can really hurt your shoulders if you don't know what you're doing. I'm surprised we don't hear more complaints of injuries.

dinkleberg• 4 years ago

Forgive my ignorance, but I always see the quest mentioned. Are there any comparable devices that don’t require Facebook?

I’ve sworn off FB and while VR for cardio has me intrigued, nothing is gonna get me to sign back in there.

mettamage• 4 years ago

IMO not really atm. Inside out tracking and cheap. It’s hard to compete with the Quest 2 on convenience.

jaxrtech• 4 years ago

Well there are pros and cons selling at a loss

kuang_eleven4• 4 years ago

It isn't really comparable, but the only other real VR competitor out there is the Valve Index, which is considerably more expensive, requires base stations and requires a cord to a (beefy) computer, but on the flip side can support many more games, with much better controllers and is much more powerful.

ehnto2• 4 years ago

Why not the Vive? They've made huge progress in the last few years.

bane• 4 years ago

What games does the Index support that the Quest 2 doesn't? Honest question since the Q2 works fine with Steam VR.

baby4• 4 years ago

With the quest you can stream beefy games from your computer

cagr• 4 years ago

Meta Quest is totally unrelated to Facebook Blue :)

zwaps• 4 years ago

This is simply not true. It's obviously the same company and will treat your privacy right the same way (i.e. as nonexistant)

Further, you need a facebook account to log in (at least, for now) and it needs to be your real name (if you don't want to run afoul to Meta's terms and conditions).

so yeah, the will use and combine your data for any nefarious purpose see: https://support.oculus.com/146743104076817

"Yes. Facebook will use information related to your use of VR and other Facebook products to show you personalized content, including ads, across Facebook products. This could include recommendations for Oculus Events you might like, ads about Facebook apps and technologies, or ads from developers for their VR apps."

blensor4• 4 years ago

Pico Neo 3 IQ Q3 (still in development) HTC Vive Focus Lynx R1 ( still in development ) Oculus Quest using Oculess to remove FB ( or just ask Meta support to unlink your headset from your account )

JoeDaDude2• 4 years ago

I'd recommend you look at the HP Reverb headset, which has a good performance/price ratio. Technically, it is made for the Windows Mixed Reality ecosystem, but I find it supports almost all Steam VR games and there are work arounds to make it work for oculus games without a FB account. YMMV

d--b• 4 years ago

I don’t own a VR headset, but working out is one of the main reasons I could buy one. I have some questions though:

1. Isn’t the headset moving when doing fast moves?

2. Does the headset get dirty from sweating?

3. Does any sweat build up inside the device?

4. Did anyone break their device by moving too fast?

kuang_eleven4• 4 years ago

1. Some, but if it's well fitted, it's not a big deal.

2. Yup.

3. Yup again, especially around the... face gasket?

4. Haven't broken it yet, but I definitely have windmilled my controllers into various things. Part of that is that I don't really have enough floor space for VR.

tragictrash• 4 years ago

But the silicone face gasket. You won't regret being able to clean it

billti• 4 years ago

I have the Quest I and Quest II. Thrill of the Fight is my main "workout" game, so now I use the Quest I exclusively for that (works just as well), because I do worry about the amount of sweat I get on it. I use the Quest II for the less physically punishing apps to maintain its longevity.

The Quest II actually feels a little more uncomfortable to be for exercise anyway. It seems like the lenses are closer to the face and the unit gets a little warmer.

So to you question, yes the face gasket and head strap can get quite sweaty, but not so much "inside" the device far as I can tell.

To the last point, I've punched the headset with the controllers a few times (usually going for a short inside uppercut), but they seem pretty sturdy. (Or maybe my punches just have no power :-)

invalidator2• 4 years ago

1) Games take this into account. There's no "Headbanger Hero VR". The headset holds on just fine with moderate acceleration.

2) The face gasket gets damp with a moderate workout, and sometimes I soak it if I push really hard. It air-dries between uses. It's made of antimicrobial something-or-other which seems to last a long time before it turns funky. When it does, new ones are 2 for $40, so you just throw it away and snap a new one on. The rest of the headset doesn't get wet.

3) I haven't had problems with it, but some people feel it gets too hot and humid. If so, you can get aftermarket fans which fit in the frunk to circulate air through it.

4) I haven't yet! The headset stays on fine. I have clapped the controllers together moderately hard a few times with no apparent damage. Everything seems well-made, and you can buy individual pieces if you do manage to break something.

My experiences are all with the Valve Index. YMMV with other setups.

krajzeg2• 4 years ago

1. Not if it's fitted well. Some people seem to need aftermarket straps for that. Myself, I'm fine with the stock Oculus Quest 2 strap, as long as I fit it properly. My core game is a table tennis simulator (Eleven), which requires lots of fast sudden movement.

2. It does. I wash the face mask foam regularly with just warm water + soap. The face cover is removable so it's not a big deal.

3. In my case, it's all absorbed by the washable foam.

4. The Quest 2 is pretty sturdy. I did bump the controllers pretty hard against each other a few times, and had a few glancing hits controller vs headset. Nothing broke so far. The controllers have a ring that tends to protect your hand and the buttons when you crash them into something.

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

1. No, with the fitness strap upgrade at least.

2. Not really. The main thing that gets dirty is the face insert, which is detachable and can be washed by hand. I have a silicon layer above that so just wipe it off after each session. The oculus 2 is much better than the 1 in this regard, which had a fabric around the unit that could get really grimy.

3. I’m not sure. My first oculus died from reasons I can’t determine. I thought it might have been because of the sweat. The oculus 2 avoids fabric for the main unit and seems to be more resistant in this regard.

5. No. But I’ve had more than a few accidental controller strikes on either the other controller or on the unit itself at high speeds. Never hurt the hardware, but I’ve hurt my fingers a few times.

dmontero2• 4 years ago

What is so bad about just going out and doing sports with people and having real contact?

I guess that everyone is different. In my case I really enjoy participating in HIT workouts with people; the group competition drives me to push myself.

That's one of the reasons for having better results in a marathon than during training: group competitiveness

The second benefit is also obvious to me: socializing. Just the fact of doing sports together gives you a sense of bonding, of going through similar pain and succeeding.

One can argue you can achieve the same with VR meanwhile for me is just a poor replacement.

toastal2• 4 years ago

Did you forget about the ongoing pandemic?

barry-cotter• 4 years ago

If you haven't been vaccinated or received a booster I strongly encourage you to do so.

dmontero2• 4 years ago

Outdoor group sports wasn't really forbidden in many countries, or just for a small period of time.

It wasn't my goal to alienate anybody. On the contrary I was trying to highlight the advantages of group sports.

j2452• 4 years ago

Agree with all the benefits you listed about in-person sport. Main issue is the time commitment with team sports.

VR is in and out in 30-40 mins and the sports venue is your living room or garage (no travelling required)

IME - VR can be more fun than the gym.

VR can be social and competitive. Many online e-sports are.

Horses for courses etc..

zmmmmm7• 4 years ago

What is so bad about just going out and doing sports with people

Inflexible, time intensive, lacks variety, intimidating to those with lower fitness, dealing with annoying people, competition limited to whoever you work out with rather than matching your level, affected by weather, injuries, expense ....

fouc3• 4 years ago

Is exercise with VR significantly better or more convenient than non-VR options? Were Wii Fit or Xbox One Kinect or DDR or other options any good?

baby4• 4 years ago

- kinect: I haven’t tried the latest but it’s not really immersive. I find it dull. The feedback/accuracy is also not great

- DDR or games that require a mat: great! I used to have the britney spears one when I was younger (because I couldn’t find DDR) and what a fun workout it was!

- wii fit: really cool experience! Really intense. I think I have more fun with DDR but wii fit feels like a real session at the gym

- VR: best for immersion and feedback, you’re really somewhere else. I’ve only done beat saber, I feel like you tend to quickly understand how to do the less amount of movements to play, so it turns from a workout to a game after some hours. Curious about the other games tho

zmmmmm7• 4 years ago

VR exercise was a bit of a revelation for me. Used to run 8km per day but lockdown convinced me to try exercise at home using VR and I fell in love with it. Apart from being fun (you're literally playing computer games), I got a much better workout, exercising parts of my body that running didn't touch. I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life. Really surprised me and sold me that this could be one of the real "killer apps" for VR if enough people knew about it.

wingerlang3• 4 years ago

I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no way VR will bulk up your arms in a way that a simple dumbbell won't do better in 5-15 minutes per day, right?

exercising parts of my body that running didn't touch

Similarly, running will exercise parts of your body that VR won't touch right?

Lewton• 4 years ago

there is no way VR will bulk up your arms in a way that a simple dumbbell won't do better in 5-15 minutes per day, right?

Right, targeted exercise will bulk you up more

running will exercise parts of your body that VR won't touch right?

What? No

Which muscles do you think you use while running that you don’t use jumping around in vr?

littlecranky67• 4 years ago

no way VR will bulk up your arms in a way that a simple dumbbell won't do better in 5-15 minutes per day

True, but you underestimate the most important thing when working out: consistency - doing it regularly over long periods of time. VR/AR trainings will take off in the future, as the "gamification" (read: instant gratification) will help motivate people to stick with a workout routine and achieve that consistency.

zmmmmm7• 4 years ago

I can't really tell you if using a dumbbell would have done more - probably you are right. But there's no way I would persist with dumbbells, I find them excruciatingly boring.

Similarly, running will exercise parts of your body that VR won't touch right?

Perhaps but not nearly as many as VR hits that running doesn't touch. It certainly forces you to do squats.

mbrameld• 4 years ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no way VR will bulk up your arms in a way that a simple dumbbell won't do better in 5-15 minutes per day, right?

You're not wrong, just missing the point.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

I actually started bulking up in my upper arms for the first time in my life.

No you didn't, unless you were completely and utterly detrained (i.e., previously bedridden or something) and even then, the stimulus would've only resulted in adaptation for a short period.

VR exercise is far too submaximal (in regards to strength) to result in meaningful strength adaptations past a short initial adaptation period.

Kiro3• 4 years ago

I also build muscles in VR training and I've done a lot of stronglift so I know what progression is like. Pistol Whip is great for building leg muscles. Imagine doing that one more squat you didn't think you had in you when in the squat rack. In Pistol Whip you do that 20 times without noticing.

You don't need progressive overload to build muscles. High rep sets should not be underestimated.

zmmmmm7• 4 years ago

Well, I'm not sure if this is about differences in definitions .... I don't know what adaptation means. All I can tell you is it had a significant impact on the actual physical bulk of my upper arms.

The main driver of that was SynthRiders, where you get points for punching targets as hard as you can. To get to the top of the leader board you have to pretty much hit targets with all your strength for 3-4 mins. 30 mins of that a day over several months was enough to make a significant difference.

aaronbrethorst• 4 years ago

“Tiny Habit”

TIL. I’ve been doing this forever, but it’s kind of nice to have a zeitgeisty label to slap on the activity.

For example, I’ve been doing somewhere between 5 minutes and 60 minutes of yoga every day for about a year now. Some days it’s more, other days (or weeks) it’s less. But I’ve found that needing to do something with no minimum standard every day keeps it top of mind, but never stressful.

And it helps that even five minutes of stretching after sitting in front of a computer all day does help to keep me from feeling terrible.

Also, my wife and I have gotten really into doing Apple Fitness+ strength training videos together. It requires an Apple Watch because Apple, but no weird VR headset. I’m sure you could find any number of comparable videos on YouTube. I don’t think you need to buy a thing to start feeling healthier.

WalterBright7• 4 years ago

Geez, go outside for a run. Get some fresh air, smell the rain, say hi to the neighbors, watch houses being built, get chased by a dog, check the Little Library for something interesting, swallow a bug, see if anyone has a cool car in their garage.

Nevermark2• 4 years ago

Going on a walk works for my mind, I can think really well walking or hiking.

But more intense exercise without a novel mental aspect (i.e. a game) interferes with my ability to think hard and I find myself constantly frustrated and/or bored.

Now if I could go on physical exhausting, mentally entertaining, medieval quests in the real countryside that would be great. Maybe sunshine, Vitamin D and augmented reality are waiting in my future.

metahost• 4 years ago

100% this. After spending the entire day in front of screens going out for a workout run is such a refresher.

However, to each their own.

caslon5• 4 years ago

Counterpoint: No.

VR is great. You don't have to spike your risk of skin cancer, you don't have to deal with allergies, you don't have to run along a road that constantly has drunken teenagers crashing into mailboxes, there are no mosquitos that will make your life miserable, and you can play with friends, regardless of the fact that they're traveling, or live elsewhere. You don't have to deal with motion sickness as you're driving to a more interesting location, and you don't have to comply to the schedule of your immediate environment.

But none of that is quite as important as what really matters: The real world is boring. If the parts accessible to everyone were half as interesting as a world defined in silicon, people wouldn't strap an LCD screen onto their face and spend all day in it.

$300 for a device that you can do your work in, watch movies with friends in, play pretty intensive, full-motion e-sports in, meet new people every single night without having to pay a cover fee in, and program your own world around your preferences in is a hell of a deal.

These things are popular because the real world sucks in comparison for 80% of the population. Not everyone's a dotcom bubble millionaire, not everyone attends any university, let alone a good one, not everyone lives in the suburbs or in an urban environment.

It's more fun to see someone stand up on a virtual stage and give a presentation to eighty people on something that wouldn't be significant in real life, like a mainline Linux kernel running in a written-for-this-talk RISC-V emulator inside of a pixel shader inside of the video game you're currently standing in's virtual world[1] than it ever could be to watch birds.

I have one of the best views imaginable in real life, with as much land as a person could want to mess around with vehicles, run, or make impromptu sleds to see how fast you can go down a steep hill without toppling, and it doesn't hold a candle to VR. Most of my hours spent outside now are based in running with my pet or walking through the woods, because there's no point in going outside every day for its own sake. If it weren't for my pet, I probably wouldn't spend more than an hour outside every day.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2u7NOpzcBQ&t=5054s

WalterBright7• 4 years ago

A few comments (I know I won't change your mind):

I run when the sun is lower in the sky because of skin cancer risk. For 6 months of the year, it's low enough that it isn't an issue any time of day. I also wear a hat and long sleeved shirt. I know this works because I don't have a tan. I've never been bitten by a mosquito when running, it's when I stop they get me.

As for it being boring, I zone out and work on my projects in my head when running.

Not sure why you'd bother with a spread with a view if you don't enjoy it.

wh4t3v3r3• 4 years ago

"VR is great. You don't have to spike your risk of skin cancer, you don't have to deal with allergies, you don't have to run along a road that constantly has drunken teenagers crashing into mailboxes...()"

And what about your eyes? How healthy is wearing VR? :)

jamiek882• 4 years ago

Wow this has finally got me interested. Can you do all that with the quest ?

westoncb3• 4 years ago

I tend to agree—if you're at a point where you can do it. But for a lot of people VR will end up being better for the simple fact that it'll actually happen for them.

Personally, I do go on extended walks regularly, e.g. do a couple miles to the grocery store—but, I was trying to get back into an actual strength training routine after years of no formal workouts, just walking, and gaining skill in Beat Saber was actually the first stepping stone that eventually got me back into it. Just needed some kinda tiny success first, just some experience using my body in a relatively athletic mode again.

playpause• 4 years ago

This sentiment is so predictable and boring. Also the article literally says the motivation was knee pain meant he couldn’t run more than a few minutes. Maybe people aren’t the cartoons you have in your head.

WalterBright7• 4 years ago

I suffered from knee pain from running, too. I was concerned I was going to cripple myself. I finally switched my technique from heel-strike to ball-strike. This dramatically reduced the impact load on my knees, and the pain faded away after a month or so and has not returned.

The reason this works is because your body is designed to ball-strike, the heel-strike is unnatural. The ball-strike enables the tendons in your feet to act as shock absorbers. Those tendons will hurt for a bit under the unaccustomed load, so it's best to back off the running a bit until they strengthen.

watwut5• 4 years ago

While I do run regularly, you gotta admit it is probably the most boring sport from them all.

WalterBright7• 4 years ago

Nah, weightlifting is the most boring.

Running for me means I'm working in my head on my projects. It's the most productive part of my work day.

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

Running can be a monotonous grind if you do it on a schedule. That’s assuming you live in a place with decent enough weather that lets you keep to that schedule year round.

WalterBright7• 4 years ago

It can be a monotonous grind, but it isn't for me. The difference is I "preload" my head with a problem I want to solve, and then solve it while running. It's very productive time.

Nevermark2• 4 years ago

I wear a 20 lbs weight vest, 3.5 lbs wrist weights and 5 lbs ankle weights at all times when using my Oculus Quest 2.

The point of always wearing them, even for low intensity use, is I never have to motivate myself to put on extra weight - and I strongly associate the weighted feeling, and the endorphins I get from them, with having fun.

This is how our bodies evolved to live ... or it should have been, lol.

notefaker• 4 years ago

Just be careful with vest, wrist, and ankle weights. They’re great for static exercises, think leg lifts or arm raises, but can wreck your ankles, wrists, and back while doing any sort of cardio, even walking:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/wearable-weig...

AndrewSChapman• 4 years ago

Just wanted to add that Eleven (VR table tennis) is absolutely brilliant for exercise. After an hour of eTT and you will be sweating and have increased your step count a lot. Moreover, the better you get at it, the more energy you can put into it.

* If you're wanting to have some change of skill transference into real world table tennis, get an adapter for your dominant hand paddle so your bat has the right weight, position and feel. Also, never forget that the table isn't real.

krajzeg2• 4 years ago

Seconded! I do an hour of it every day and it's had way more staying power for me than Beat Saber due to the competitive aspect of climbing up the rankings.

tifadg12• 4 years ago

What do you find about VR in fitness context that's helping you stay committed for longer periods of time? Presumably it's the follow-along concept, but you don't need VR for that.

westoncb3• 4 years ago

Instead of being "follow-along" it's interactive. You have goals, can compete with others, explore, etc. just like in ordinary games.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently). It also leaves out the most important adaptation of all: strength.

Effective training (not exercising) requires a progression model. That is, on some time frame you must exceed your performance at the end of that time frame when compared to the beginning of the time frame. This must be done in some measurable way--trying "harder" is ineffective. For example, if you squatted 120 kg x 5 two days ago, today you need to squat 122.5 kg x 5. VR cannot support such a progression model because it is incapable of producing a sufficiently intense stimulus (obviously for strength, but also for cardiovascular fitness) to result in continued adaptations; i.e., you cannot effectively scale the stress to produce meaningful adaptations after an initial period of adaptations. I'm sure if the author of the post continues for another 80 days, you'll see progress mostly stall.

At any rate, the bigger issue is that the most important component of fitness--strength--is left out entirely. Strength is extremely correlated with decreased morbidity/mortality but, perhaps more tangibly, becoming strong results in vast, systemic changes to your body and (especially if you're older or extremely unfit already) similarly vast improvements to your quality of life. You are a physical entity and the way you interact with your environment is expressed through forces; the degree to which you can produce such forces is strength. We all depend on strength.

As anyone who is strong will tell you, being strong is a far superior state to being weak. If you only "exercise" or just go for runs or only do VR exercise, you are weak.

(Effective) strength training trains your entire body. Your bones, your nervous system, your balance, and yes, even cardiovascular fitness. You can become very strong lifting just 3x a week for one hour each time. Throw in some HIIT (which takes 15 minutes and results in better cardiovascular fitness than VR exercise because it has a progression model and is sufficiently intense to result in sufficient stress to evoke an adaptation) on a rest day and you have a far, far more effective recipe for general fitness with significantly less time spent. All other factors being equal, the man who can squat 400 lbs will always be fitter than the man who plays VR for 45 minutes every day--and the former can do it with a smaller time investment.

For any naysayers arguing that strength training isn't fun (like VR is): it is fun. You're playing Pokemon, just leveling up IRL instead of your Clefairy. The progression model I explained above makes it fun.

hombre_fatal• 4 years ago

1) The best exercise is the one you do.

2) You are too dismissive, hand waving/wringing behind the word “effective”. You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise. I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and body weight squats here and there. I don’t count them, I just do some, but I do some every day.

Where people fail is the daily consistency and making the lifestyle change of actually exercising at all regularly, not because they aren’t exercising optimally.

If VR compels someone to exercise, it kinda seems like you would butt in with this “well actually” sort of unhelpful discouragement before you even know what their goals are. Sounds like you may only have one narrow goal in mind.

Your posts in these threads remind me of all the instant guru redditors that just read Starting Strength and now dunk on people in r/fitness.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

You don’t need to min/max and obsess over progression and optimization to get good exercise.

You're right, but I'm not talking about exercise, I'm talking about training. You do need to "obsess" over progression if you intend to progress.

I’m jacked just doing push-ups, pull-ups, and squats here and there.

You almost certainly are not. Having low bodyfat is not the same thing as being "jacked". Weight/height? How much can you squat?

Where people fail is the daily consistency and making the lifestyle change of actually exercising at all regularly, not because they aren’t exercising optimally.

My argument is that these things are highly related. That is, lifting effectively makes lifting consistently much easier--if you're seeing continued, measurable progress (every time you lift your numbers go up--how exciting!) and actual physical changes and improvements to your quality of life, it really isn't so difficult to be consistent because the process itself is incredibly enjoyable and rewarding. Continued habits are not formed by discipline, they are formed by finding something you enjoy in the habit; at least some component of the habit itself must become compelling.

Kiro3• 4 years ago

I've done a lot of stronglift and don't think it's fun. It's a chore I do because it's good for me. VR training on the other hand is extremely fun and I still look forward to each session. It's not until I take off the headset I notice that I'm soaking in sweat.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

That's too bad. Out of curiosity, do you have meaningful progress on Stronglifts? Can you tell me what your starting lifts were and what you're at now?

Broken_Hippo3• 4 years ago

None of this matters if you find exercise and training of this sort so mind-numbingly boring that you active avoid the it due to hate of activity. You might try your best to convince me that it is fun, but I whole-heartedly disagree. It is repetitive boredom, about as fun as housework and maybe worse (which is why I keep a messy house).

I'll be physically weak and happy instead and continue to put concepts into my mind and enjoy the activity I do get, thank you.

microjim• 4 years ago

For that, you'd need to be convinced that exercise/strength training results in better health outcomes long term, and that better health outcomes are an important factor in emotional wellbeing.

Supposing that, it is safe to acknowledge that particular behaviour can be created by building reward circuits and overcoming initial aversion common when building any habit.

Tenoke• 4 years ago

This post is clearly about cardio while your whole comment dismisses it for not being strength training and talks of strength training. Just because you do strength training it doesn't mean cardio is useless and in fact many people do both.

As for progression you do it the same way as running presumably - by putting more time and/or doing it faster.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

The title of the post is "Virtual Reality: My Digital Dojo for Mental & Physical Fitness". The post is about physical fitness and I think the author is conflating physical fitness with cardiovascular fitness.

in fact many people do both.

And I argued for both and that strength training also results in cardiovascular adaptations.

bluecalm• 4 years ago

I am tired of the HIIT nonsense. When it comes to cardiovascular fitness it's not even remotely enough to throw a HIIT session here and there. It's not enough to rely on intensity alone. You need volume and volume before everything else. By volume I mean a lot of light, easy exercise. You will benefit by adding some intensity once you you have enough volume in your training, probably not all year round and probably not too much.

Just talk to anyone who trains endurance sports. Read the recent "how to skate 10kms" that is making rounds lately. Look at any training program of competitive endurance athletes and you will see low intensity volume before anything else. The reason is there is that it works. There are adaptations that only happens during long easy sessions.

If you just care about carrying heavy stuff then you can ignore all of the above but there is more to fitness than that.

>All other factors being equal, the man who can squat 400 lbs will always be fitter than the man who plays VR for 45 minutes every day--and the former can do it with a smaller time investment

Plenty of guys who can squat 400lbs who would be totally gassed after running a few miles or cycling up a moderate length hill. I wouldn't call it fit. I am betting on 45mins per day VR guy.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

There are adaptations that only happens during long easy sessions.

What sort of adaptations? As far as I'm aware, adaptations are the result of significant stress. What are the stressors of a "long easy session"?

At any rate, my post was about physical fitness and health, not how to become a competitive athlete.

Many competitive athletes are not fit. A marathoner who has no muscle mass and who is physically weak is not fit--regardless of the fact if they can run a 2:15 marathon. Said marathoner is not resistant to adversity, e.g., consider how they'd do on a wasting disease like cancer versus an athletic 215lb male.

What competitive athletes do generally is not a useful consideration when deciding on training modalities. Assuming that what the pros do is effective because they're pros is logical fallacy and, regardless, these people are (genetic) outliers with differing goals.

Low-intensity, long endurance cardio is adversarial to increasing strength. If you want to be a competitive endurance runner then, sure, you need to adapt your training and you will need to do long endurance cardio. If you're just an average Joe who wants to be healthy and fit then it is not in your interest to do long endurance cardio. Injury rates are higher, it makes it harder to become strong, and many of the resulting adaptations are undesirable.

multjoy7• 4 years ago

You need volume and volume before everything else.

There's volume and then there's volume. Obviously five minutes of HIIT between picking things up and putting things down isn't going to do a great deal, but especially in the cycling world there's a lot of research around easy volume work and high intensity sessions (Neal Henderson at The Sufferfest/Wahoo, TrainerRoad etc) and the general consensus is that if you're time crunched, then the long Z2 work is not where you want to be focusing your efforts.

The article isn't about a trained athlete, it's about the untrained/hobbyist for whom getting in sufficient volume just isn't possible.

Plenty of guys who can squat 400lbs who would be totally gassed after running a few miles or cycling up a moderate length hill. I wouldn't call it fit. I am betting on 45mins per day VR guy.

Picking things up and putting things down barely raises HR. Cardio appears to be a dirty word around these parts.

watwut5• 4 years ago

HIIT is not meant to train you for long distance and I never ever heard anyone to claim so. How to skate 10kms is competitive athlete program and had literally nothing to do with goals of normal sedentary person exercising.

For a lot of people, actual ability to run up stars higher or be active for 20 mins with kids is what they want and need.

And it is fun. It feels good. You see improvements in own ability to do day to day things. It takes a while till those wear off and you start to stagnate.

tifadg12• 4 years ago

On the offchance you're not trolling, these are quite the outdated views you're holding.

It's fine to muck around doing 120kg squats if that's your thing, but you're continuously putting yourself to increased risk of injury as the years go by and you're increasing weight. To mitigate that risk you then have to start doing additional warm up, foam rolls, recovery routines. Oh and lets not forget that most people can't even do squat properly, so add static stretching too. That's hell of a commitment to someone who likely hates the process and just wants to be healthy.

That said, I also do weight training, but I don't emphasize it due to above. 2x/week full-body base, 2x/week 30 min cardio, 2x week static stretches. Am I advanced in anything? No. Am I rounded more than person going to the gym 3 times a week? I'd think so.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

To mitigate that risk you then have to start doing additional warm up, foam rolls, recovery routines

How do you know that any of this is effective?

Oh and lets not forget that most people can't even do squat properly, so add static stretching too.

If you don't squat correctly, you need to do static stretching to ameliorate it? What?

It's fine to muck around doing 120kg squats if that's your thing, but you're continuously putting yourself to increased risk of injury as the years go by and you're increasing weight.

Being strong decreases risk of injury and death. We're not talking about becoming competitive weightlifters or powerlifters here, we're talking about becoming decently strong. To become strong, you must learn to execute the lifts with sufficiently good technique to not injure yourself. If you can read a book and think somewhat critically (so, hopefully, the entire Hacker News readership) you can learn to execute the lifts correctly.

Would you have the same defeatist attitude if I was talking about joining a recreational soccer team, where injury rates are literally magnitudes higher than in the weight room?

silexia• 4 years ago

I did weight lifting for years in my 20's... I could squat 500+ lbs, bench 325 lbs several times, do 25 consecutive pullups with a wide grip or narrow grip, etc. I looked like a bodybuilder.

Then I did Crossfit for several years in my late twenties... more cardio, a bit less weights.

Then rock climbing for several years in my early thirties.

Now I ride my bike competitively on Zwift and have tons of fun doing it.

All exercise is good. If I could go back in time, I would greatly reduce the amount of weight lifting I did and focus more on fun cardio centric activities. You get all the muscle you need from those.

Ataraxiaist• 4 years ago

The fitness industry is an endless string of fashions and fads to get people motivated to workout and convince themselves that this new method is the one they will actually do.

The novelty of VR aerobics will have the shelf life of Tae Bo, Jazzercise, on and on. I have seen more variations on this theme than the Fast & Furious franchise.

At least when you get sick of the workouts you still have the VR headset that can do other things instead of a rowing machine or treadmill that collects dust.

I even have a decent home gym but go to the commercial gym 90% of the time because working out at home is boring and demotivating. You can't replicate the stimulation of the gym at home. The ritual of going, the other people, not to mention the variety of physical stimulus.

multjoy7• 4 years ago

Other people are the reason I don't go to the gym (I'll make an exception for colleagues at the work gym because I can expect them to be respectful). The ritual of going is a pain in the arse because that's time I don't have.

You can't replicate the stimulation of the gym at home

What works for you doesn't work for other people, which seems to be the one thing in this thread that the typical HN denizen forgets.

Any exercise is good exercise. Cardio, which somehow seems to be a dirty word here, is vital to good health and longevity and is the sort of exercise that leaping around with a VR headset is geared towards (and if you doubt the efficacy of computer based training, there's an entire ecosystem of cyclists that would take issue with that).

watwut5• 4 years ago

But also, people who chase those fads and jump from Tae Bo to Jazzercise to boxdance to VR are having fun and exercising the whole time. These people sign up to classes, go, have fun, they get bored with it, sign up again to whatever is new.

Starting new activity is more fun then mastery for many people - you progress faster. And that is actually ok I think.

There is this tendency to turn exercising into chore that tests your moral quality and discipline or what not. But, it is OK to just chase fun.

matwood• 4 years ago

I think your comment is a bit myopic, and I power lifted for years (my #s weren't great, just ok 525 DL, 395 sq, 315 bench all at 200#).

Step one is getting people to train at all. That alone means they are improving if they do something consistently.

Next, progression can take many forms. Adding weight is one way, more reps is another, adding explosiveness (body squat with jump for example) yea another. There's also things like time under tension where you do 1/2 squats and never come out of the contraction for the whole time. I did heavily weighted pull ups for years, then one day decided to focus on reps instead and my lats got bigger.

We also need to define how much strength does the average person who doesn't want power lifting to be their sport need. I've seen some people say, the ability to goblet squat the weight of a typical toddler is a good goal. If someone is doing 100s of bw squats consistently multiple times/week, they should feel comfortable picking up their kid.

Someone mentioned studies showing increased strength is good for health, and that's right. But if you look closely, they are not talking about huge increases. Again, bw stuff probably meets the study parameters for increases.

At the end of the day, people need to find something they like doing and do it consistently. They'll progress to some level, and then maintaining is fine if they don't want to squat 400# or do 500 pull ups in the workout.

I finally stopped power lifting when it no longer fit my other sport goals. I needed more agility and endurance for what I wanted to do so had to move my focus.

ChildOfChaos• 4 years ago

Umm what a load of nonsense.

I play FitXR which has HIIT and I use resistance bands that I connect to a belt, so I’m adding plenty of strength.

Plus I’m not a Gym rat, I’m not trying to do what you are doing, I use it because I hate going to the gym, i hate any exercise, I want to be able to do something at home on my lunch break and most of all it really makes me feel great for the rest of the day, it’s the best thing I do for myself so I’m not sure how it can be a ‘remarkably poor allocation of time’ it’s literally the opposite of that, i do it for an hour, my heart rate goes way up, I sweat a lot and I’m buzzing for hours afterwords with a great amount of focus. Your comment is complete and utter nonsense.

I don’t care about ‘training’, I care about exercise. Your post makes no sense. Nobody doing this is trying to become some brain dead nobody builder like yourself.

zfnmxt20• 4 years ago

When calling me "some brain dead nobody builder" it would be nice if your response actually faithfully represented mine. I did indeed write

VR exercise is a remarkably poor allocation of time (if your interest is physical fitness, efficiently).

But notice the parenthetical which you left out. My response was about obtaining physical fitness and doing so efficiently. Your response is about exercising and feeling good for today. And that is a totally fine thing to do, but you are not becoming physically fit in the process and it is not a method by which to become physically fit.

Of course it's better than nothing and it's great you do it and it's great you enjoy it and it's great it helps you focus, but the goals my post address are different from yours; even a brain dead nobody like myself can realize that.

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

Throw in some HIIT

VR has HIIT already, FitXR has many different levels of it.

VR fitness is mostly just aerobic workouts that you would get from a kickboxing or more tradition aerobics class with an instructor. You aren’t using weights in those classes either, it isn’t suited to anaerobic exercise.

edanm• 4 years ago

I highly disagree with the gist of your comment.

First, I'll mention that I generally agree that most people are not fit, that most people should get fitter, and that includes getting stronger. I'll also agree that getting stronger has tremendous real-world benefits, especially as you get older.

That said, you're pushing that message way too far and discounting cardio completely.

I think the main reason to get fit, for most people, is one of:

1. They want to live longer.

2. They want to have a healthier/better life.

3. They want to look better.

4. They enjoy it.

Different people have different goals, which are all valid. But you deciding that strength is the most important component of fitness is not true, for someone who doesn't share your goals.

For living longer, cardiovascular health is more important than strength, as is having lower body fat. That's the generally accepted view today - if you think otherwise, what evidence do you have for that?

For being healthier, after a certain amount of strength, I'm pretty sure that cardiovascular fitness is also more important, though admittedly I'm a bit less sure about that point.

For wanting to look better, this very much depends on the person. For most people, losing weight is the easiest thing to do to improve their appearance, though building muscle is probably the second most important thing. (I'm excluding makeup/fashion/etc which are completely different).

For enjoyment, well, that's completely dependent on the person. I personally love strength training and dislike many forms of cardio, but that's me.

Simon_O_Rourke• 4 years ago

I wake up at 5:30, and do some deep work; at 7:15 an alarm goes off, which reminds me to fire up my Oculus Quest and start my VR workout.

Not being bad about it, but if you find a gym that's open at 5:30 it's going to be pretty empty, that's if COVID worries are keeping the OP out of these environments.

I clear out my workout space and make sure my cats aren't in the main play area.

No wife and kids huh? I don't think it's going to scale to having a couple of toddlers running about when you're plugged in and jumping about the place blindly.

paperpunk• 4 years ago

The author does say they have a wife. But I know what you mean – I took my Quest to my sister's over Christmas and there were many near-misses with a two-year old not understanding the adult is not playing with them. If I had young kids I would probably want to put a lock on the door for when I'm going to use it.

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

I tried doing VR with my toddler around once. Now whenever he sees me with it on he thinks I’m going to accidentally bop him. Definitely not toddler friendly, you need the kid at daycare or with your partner and the room needs to be locked so they don’t wander in.

stewbrew• 4 years ago

"I wake up at 5:30, and do some deep work; at 7:15 an alarm goes off, which reminds me to fire up my Oculus Quest and start my VR workout."

So in VR, you don't have family?

noneeeed• 4 years ago

It's interesting to see all the same conversations happening around VR exercise as there was about Wii Fit. And it's the same split, those who find it useful for consistently doing light exercise, and those who criticise it because it isn't as effective as lifting weights or some "proper" gym/fitness routine

periphrasis• 4 years ago

A few subjective observations that may be totally wrong when applied to others despite their normative tone:

* VR makes me sweaty… because it induces minor vertigo.

* Anything which requires intense, complete focus to do right is never boring. Exercise, both strength and cardio, requires this level of focus.

* Exercise is essential to physical and mental well-being, especially as you age. The difference between having plenty of energy throughout the day and fighting through deep fatigue is profound. With exercise you are sharpening the tool that is your body, for both physical and intellectual output, and time spent keeping your tools sharp is never wasted.

* Exercise is a skill that supports measurable progressive mastery. If gamification helps your motivation, then the advent of smart watches and fitness trackers makes it extremely easy to watch your “stats” go up.

* Exercise and sports provides a venue to meet new people, which as you get older only gets harder and harder. You may think you are an introvert and dislike being around others, but that likely points to unresolved social anxiety. You’re a human: you evolved to be a social animal. You may indeed need less socialization time and fewer friends than more gregarious humans, but you do need it. The extent to which you are introverted only emphasizes the importance of finding opportunities to make new acquaintances and friends because introversion has probably left you with fewer than you need. Exercise and sports is a great such opportunity.

* Exercise is fun. It taps into a very animal sense of conquest, and the joy of pure physical sensation. I’ve been doing a lot of road cycling lately following a running injury that I’m still recovering from, and the exhilaration of speed, of instinctively responding to possibly dangerous surprises, and of pushing your legs and your lungs to go ever faster is joyful. Even overcoming the misery of winter cycling weather becomes it’s own source of accomplishment: “I pushed through sub freezing temperatures and a brutal headwind today. I am strong and resilient.”

JoeDaDude2• 4 years ago

I am reminded of the quote attributed to Socrates: "No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable."

As the proverbial 90 lb weakling who never did anything athletic, I can attest that once I started, I was amazed at what my body was capable of.

To be fair, we should also understand the context of the quote, which is that Socrates advocates physical strength and training so men could be useful to the states [1].

[1]. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5hcclh/did_s...

SimianLogic• 4 years ago

I struggle with nausea, so I stick mainly to stationary games. I've found that I can handle rail/linear movement as long as I have a fan blowing at my face.

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

I'm 38. Never had a workout or fitness routine in my entire life except for a few brief and unsustained periods of working with a trainer, but quit.

Last May I bought a Quest 2 specifically to try Supernatural, a mix of Beatsabre with a Pelaton-style experience with pre-recorded song-driven sessions.

I did one 5 song session (20 mins or so) and for the first time in my life I was dripping with sweat and thought to myself "that was fun as hell, I want to do another one."

That want did not fade. I haven't missed a day since May 5th of 2021. I go harder some days than other. I take my Quest on vacation and do at least one session. I focus on closing rings on my Apple watch. I have become more mindful of my eating too.

I was also surprised that with Supernatural specifically, the inclusion of a game mechanic that translates to squats and lunges means has translated to pretty significant increase in strength as well, even though it's "just" body weight exercises.

I was skeptical about the additon of Boxing to Supernatural, but it's become my fav mode. I get to a target heart rate faster, and I've seen significant changes in my body since adding it.

Over the last 12 months I've lost almost 60lbs, feel better, am stronger, and enjoy the process. I'm headed towards a weight I haven't been since college, and it's clearly within reach.

This never happened before VR in spite of time and money spent on professional services, products, and trainers.

I'm adding a Tempo Move for some weight training, but I don't expect to give up Supernatural anytime soon, if ever!

xarez• 4 years ago

This is amazing to read. When people are looking for advice on what to do to be more healthy they're usually pointed towards routines or habits of exercise. In truth I feel like the best way is finding something you have fun with, routine comes in pretty easily after.

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

Thank you!

I’d add kudos to the Apple Watch, which I bought a few months before the quest. I never thought of myself as a “don’t break the chain” habit person but the watch proved me wrong!

vlunkr• 4 years ago

Who would have thought video games would get people to excercise! That's really cool, I wasn't sure VR would stick around this time, but it seems like it's found some good niches

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

I feel the same way! Also notable: I don’t really play video games at all other than this one. I get bored too quickly with most games!

This model of short workouts built around playlists really unlocked a lot of things for me, I think.

herodoturtle• 4 years ago

Over the last 12 months I've lost almost 60lbs

That’s so awesome to read, keep it up!

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

Thank you for the encouragement!

siculars• 4 years ago

All power to you! Congratulations. For me, the takeaway is that XR (AR+VR) opens up a new market and attracts new people (customers). Everything in our world is a continuum. Candles to lightbulbs, horses to ICE to EV mobility. Telegraphs to phone to cell. The adoption curve is the continuum.

Your comment is such a clear signal that this technology, XR, has a place on this continuum. It will evolve and attract new people to it who have not been sold on/motivated to engage with previous generations of presentation - in your case exercise.

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

Totally agree. This experience gave me a very strong sense of applications that I would have been much more skeptical of before. Really powerful (and for me, unexpected) gateway.

belinder• 4 years ago

Do you use the regular strap? I've been trying to get into workout stuff but the regular strap never really keeps the device in place when I go for more than 10-15 minutes

seanmcdirmid9• 4 years ago

I use the fitness strap and it works well, though sometimes I dial the back too tight and get a headache.

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

I upgraded to the elite strap with the extra battery pretty early on. Never feels loose, and I can easily work out for 60-90 mins without worrying about battery issues.

nvarsj• 4 years ago

I’d like to try Supernatural but it’s US only sadly.

alexknowshtml8• 4 years ago

Obvs not supported officially but I have used it outside of the US with a VPN.

fatnoah• 4 years ago

I'll +1 the quality of the workout with Supernatural. I was a heavy XBox fitness user and loved the workouts available, along with the use of the Kinect to gameify and make sure I wasn't cheating. Supernatural offers the same thing to me. Workouts are intense, hard, and fun somehow. It took a little work to make sure I was timing things right and making the right motion for my moves to count, but the result is fun. To make it even better, I connect bluetooth audio to my home theater AVR and enjoy a much better music experience to get pumped up.

nutate• 4 years ago

VR seems great for folks, but you're putting your eyes' ciliary muscles into a cast and then working the rest of you out. Few activities put your eyes at a fixed 1.3m focal distance for the entire time.

ricardobeat2• 4 years ago

75% of people work on a computer every day, for hours at a time. Those extra hours are unlikely to do any more damage…

wh4t3v3r3• 4 years ago

Are you serious? Any extra time will damage your eyes faster...

umutisik2• 4 years ago

Exercise is the killer app for VR. If they figure out full body tracking too, they will give (and capture) a ton of value.

blensor4• 4 years ago

We've added rudimentary foot tracking to our fitness game ( https://youtu.be/ZBdYOnZ35Lk ) and are working with SlimeVR to get full body tracking into our game ( which will be an important aspect ) but it will still take VR some time before that becomes a smooth experience that's available everywhere

formvoltron• 4 years ago

On the subject of knee pain. I'm 48, have never really jogged consistently.

I bought a treadmill for a treadmill desk. At first walking was a bit painful when walking more than an hour a day.

Now, after a couple months, I not longer have pain when walking even a few hours. In fact, it feels better to walk than to stand.

And now walking doesn't create knee or leg pain, I am starting to jog. At first once every 2 or 3 days. Now about nearly every day for 20-30 minutes. Though if I feel worn out, I'll skip a day to avoid any injuries.

i try to jog outside, but when it's too cold, i jog inside on the treadmill, while watching queued youtube vids.

darthShadow2• 4 years ago

As someone who is deciding whether to splurge on a Quest 2 for exercising, how good is it without a computer system to link with?

Also, is there any step that requires a computer system like the initial setup etc.?

Any recommendations for initial games to try and guides for getting the optimal adjustment are also appreciated.

obscuren• 4 years ago

You do not need a computer for the setup. You’ll need your mobile phone instead.

You may, if you wish, hook up the Q2 to a a PC to play steamVR and Oculus Games. The oculus quest 2 has a separate store (in VR) in which you purchase new games.

darthShadow2• 4 years ago

Perfect, thanks.

Any first game recommendations btw?

crocwrestler• 4 years ago

I'm usually pretty sedentary, generally don't have the best diet and haven't looked after myself so well.

VR exercise has been a real gamechanger for me, well worth the cost of the VR system alone.

I exercise every day, and look forward to it, I really enjoy it. I feel a lot more energy in my day to day life and feel just generally great. My focus and general emotional health is a lot better, and I also see some benefits with creativity.

So yes, it may just be light cardio or whatnot, not the same as a gym workout, but I don't see myself doing a gym workout so regularly or having such fun.

My First 80 Days of VR for Exercise

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