Parler Tricks: Making Software Disappear

https://puri.sm/posts/parler-tricks-making-software-disappear/

by fsflover • 6 years ago

104 172 6 years ago

The solution is to choose hardware and software from companies that value your freedom

This can already be done with Android. Good for them for making another alternative, but they're really overstating their case here.

ocdtrekkie3• 6 years ago

Technically Google can remove sideloaded apps from your Android too. Nearly every Android in existence gives Google remote root access to everything on the device.

lern_too_spel4• 6 years ago

Nearly every Android in existence gives Google remote root access to everything on the device.

That's the point. You're choosing a phone, not among all Android phones at random (or worse, all smartphones at random, which by virtue of including iOS worsens your odds).

Even Android phones made by Google are usable with a DNS block on google.com (as long as you manually sideload OS updates), removing Google's remote root.

mcherm• 6 years ago

But it is NOT widely done.

Why?

Perhaps only a few people value this? Or perhaps it hasn't yet been marketed properly?

lern_too_spel4• 6 years ago

People who do value it use it that way (and this is the only widely available platform that allows them to do so today). You'll see many such users on this very forum, but as you observed, there aren't that many in total. This says something unfortunate about the size of Purism's addressable market but not much about Android itself.

aidenn02• 6 years ago

TFA addresses that point explicitly where they say Google lags a couple of generations behind Apple in lockdown features, and newer defaults are pointing in the direction of further restricting sideloading.

lern_too_spel4• 6 years ago

they say Google lags a couple of generations behind Apple in lockdown features,

Android is already caught up with iOS in lockdown features and in some ways already surpassed. This is a very strange argument for PureOS, which requires apps to request permissions at install time (like earlier versions of Android), and many apps in Flathub just ask for all permissions. I hope PureOS improves this situation because it will also make my desktop better in addition to providing more mobile choices, but to claim they are better than Android already at this simply has no basis in reality.

newer defaults are pointing in the direction of further restricting sideloading.

Google itself has said that sideloading will become better in upcoming versions of Android. This is something that I am looking forward to because I develop apps for my own devices that I want to manage the deployment of myself without being restricted to the basic deployment capabilities of the Play Store. https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/09/listening-...

ocdtrekkie3• 6 years ago

I mean, yes, this is true, but Purism probably shouldn't be picking this hill to market on.

prionassembly4• 6 years ago

It's a bit of a reputation risk, yes. We should be glad some people are willing to take it. "Democracy dies in darkness" or something.

ocdtrekkie3• 6 years ago

The insurrection directly was trying to kill our democracy by overriding a vote, the core guarantee of our democracy.

But in general, I think "buy our product if you want to try to overthrow democracy" is just in general, a bad business strategy.

AnthonyMouse8• 6 years ago

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." -H. L. Mencken

tstrimple3• 6 years ago

Well if someone dead said it and it was important enough to put quotes around, it must be true!

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

~ Karl Popper

GVIrish3• 6 years ago

Sure, but what oppressive law is at work here? Companies make choices about who they want to do business with all the time. If the argument is that Google and Apple shouldn't be able to ban any apps on their respective stores, it would require enacting a law to force that upon them.

The Google and Apple duopoly may be something that requires regulatory action but I don't see how a store should be forced to sell or distribute any product from a company whose conduct they find objectionable.

sanp• 6 years ago

Yeah, but no one is making a new oppressive law. Parler violated their ToS and Google, Apples, Amazon are within their rights to do this. If a court finds otherwise (and see a contractual breach) and they have to backtrack we will know the system worked as intended.

Bud3• 6 years ago

Refusing to host Nazis isn't "oppressive".

claudiawerner2• 6 years ago

At least as it relates to speech in Western liberal democracies, this is alleging there is a slippery slope (and we're not already on it) and there are no mechanisms that exist or could be introduced to increase the friction on that slope. It's a feel-good platitude of a quote that's basically an appeal to emotion without evidence.

Slippery slope arguments, while sometimes valid, usually require more leg work to persuade than a vague sentiment.

myWindoonn• 6 years ago

Services, not software. They can make services disappear. A famous rant [0] is applicable here; the way that these corporations exercise control is by owning the underlying hardware. If one wants to avoid this sort of corporate control, then one needs to encourage folks to use Free Software on their own machines.

[0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

kevmoo1• 6 years ago

Google and Apple can simply make software disappear. Software that gives access to child pornography. Software to buy and sell black-market drugs. Software that lets people organize terrorism and sedition.

There's a point where free speech crosses the "clear and present danger" threshold.

I consider this a feature, not a bug.

framecowbird• 6 years ago

Sure, but the question is: who gets to decide where that line is drawn when the answer isn't so clear? Are we happy delegating that decision to a couple of corporations?

GVIrish3• 6 years ago

I think that's an argument against Google and Apple being a duopoly in the smartphone market, not an argument that companies shouldn't be able to make policies about what is and isn't allowed on their app store.

So if users could more easily sideload apps or if there were more app stores, then Apple and Google wouldn't be the sole arbiters of what apps can be on people's phones.

methodin• 6 years ago

What's the alternative - the government which a large portion of our country wants to see less of? Not to mention if it were the government's responsibility that any new president can just strip the budget making it ineffective.

loceng• 6 years ago

No, open a browser and you can go to http://thedonald.win and you'll be free to say anything there, so long as it fits their narrative - otherwise they will ban/block you; I hope the irony isn't lost on people that they want to be able to "censor"/block people, but don't want others to be able to block them.

j16sdiz• 6 years ago

Are there any due process? Is the power checked and balanced?

dqpb• 6 years ago

Does anyone here have their Librem 5 smartphone?

fsflover15• 6 years ago

There are plenty of people on Purism forums: https://forums.puri.sm/search?q=%5BMyL5%5D.

mkl952• 6 years ago

Google and Apple can simply make software disappear from their app stores, this is not news. Some people have quickly forgotten the Basecamp / Hey scandal just a few months before the Parler shutdown.

TT3351• 6 years ago

Non-tech people only notice these things when they blow up in their own faces

mkl952• 6 years ago

Other than that, both of these companies excel at PR and damage control. Unless you are technical and a critical thinker they simply brainwash you.

philg_jr• 6 years ago

I mean, you could just open up your favorite web browser and go to any website you'd like. Why is the lack of an app on the App Store or Play such a major hindrance? Well, I know why it is, because most people have been conditioned to associate every service with an app. But really, it shouldn't be a major roadblock.

Also, not totally related this this article, but I also don't understand why Parler didn't have a backup DR plan. All of the major cloud platforms have outages. What is stopping them from renting a few racks, or cages of racks, in a datacenter with multiple Tier1 peers? Sounds like they didn't plan very well honestly.

stickyricky2• 6 years ago

I mean, you could just open up your favorite web browser and go to any website you'd like.

Only if you're willing to hit Russian servers...

core-questions4• 6 years ago

More like "only while you're still allowed to hit Russian servers". With Carrier-Grade NAT leaving people without their own real public IPs, we're already past the point where people have true unfettered internet access and the freedom to hit / be hit by any IP they wish.

I'm not scared of the Russians. The whole thing feels like a lukewarm, microwaved version of the Cold War, and frankly, it's more Hollywood than it is real. "Russian hackers!!!" could be anyone who has a $2/mo Russian proxy address; you can get yourself a /32 of Russian IPv6 space for peanuts; there's no way to know where anyone's really operating from. Unless you think the MaxMinds GeoIP database is somehow irrefutable evidence of state actions....

yosito2• 6 years ago

There are plenty of apps that don't have a web version. Like the carsharing app I use, for example. Only exists for Android and iOS.

slowhand092• 6 years ago

When your DNS provider removes your record...

When your cellular connection becomes an app...

When your contact list is removed or hidden...

When your text app is locked...

When your ISP kills your account...

When your webhost provider deletes your site and/or content...

When they selectively track your location and post it to political groups they support...

When your car GPS stops navigating.

When your car won't start to support a suggested lockdown they support...

When your cable channel drops all "opposing" news media...

How much of Orwell's 1984 do you want?

viggity2• 6 years ago

Hell. Even Twilio (a common carrier) banned Parler. AFAICT Parler wasn't using Twilio to forward harassing messages. It used it for 2FA. And I'm sure they'll get away with it. It's just nuts.

jf225• 6 years ago

I believe 1984 was about the government rewriting reality and not private industry.

RoyTyrell2• 6 years ago

You obviously have not read and understood any of 1984 if you believe that. Please describe how every action you list related to Parler and 1984.

vfclists• 6 years ago

For a company who knew that they were bound to fall foul of the ideological stances of their providers, they should have planned for such an event.

The most likely reason for that is that the companies owners were fake people who wanted to profile a particular segment of the society, or they were poorly advised by the IT guys.

simion314• 6 years ago

Why is the lack of an app on the App Store or Play such a major hindrance?

Would an alarm clock on browser be more easy to use, ergonomic and more private in a web page ?

I was reflecting on the issue with music steaming giants, so I had the idea to have the musicians form a cooperative and create their own service where all the money goes to the creators. The first issue I see is Apple and Google will not allow your app in the Store without paying them a big tax and using web page for music steaming would for sure use a lot more battery and it will not have access to the nice native APIs so good luck competing with the giants.

SheinhardtWigCo• 6 years ago

Why is the lack of an app on the App Store or Play such a major hindrance?

Many of the things you can do in a native app are not possible with web APIs. That isn’t going to change because the companies writing web specs have a strategic interest in reserving access to coveted operating system features and APIs for their native app platforms, e.g. push notifications, fast graphics, media capture. Local storage is also being crippled under the guise of privacy - Safari now deletes local data after 7 days unless you add the website to your home screen.

gotoeleven• 6 years ago

Encryption can be used for bad things too I hope they ban it.

LanceH• 6 years ago

Politicians do bad things, too.

petraeus• 6 years ago

The opposite of this is to declare everyone has the right to be featured #1 on these private platform? Nobody has that right.

fsflover15• 6 years ago

If those platforms are de-facto monopolies, then everyone should have the right to be there (not necessarily be featured #1).

yosito2• 6 years ago

I really like the idea of running an OS like PureOS or other open source, Linux OSes on my phone. In practice though, there are always apps that I need in modern life that only exist for iOS or Android. The carsharing app I use, a few of my banks, and some apps I need for work, etc, all only exist on Android. Is there any solution for running an Android VM inside a Linux phone in order to use these apps that I need that aren't available for Linux?

fsflover15• 6 years ago

https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...

Bud3• 6 years ago

"Apps get removed from these app stores all the time, but more than almost any past move by these companies, this one has brought the power Big Tech companies wield over everyone’s lives to the minds of every day people."

Everyday Nazis, more like.

santoshalper• 6 years ago

I absolutely despise the kind of content you'd find on parler, but I am still deeply uncomfortable with Amazon and Google's influence over our lives. You can hold two opposing thoughts in your head at the same time.

seba_dos1• 6 years ago

Same here. I despise Parler and the kind of people that associate with it, but I'm also not happy with the power over our lives that big tech companies possess these days. Seeing the Librem 5 being recommended by random people in context of Parler makes me feel uneasy, but I guess I just have to deal with the fact that not everything is black and white and that good things (like FLOSS, encryption, autonomy) will also be used to do bad.

(I work for Purism on a technical position)

timeon2• 6 years ago

Yeah, that post made me sad. Was enthusiastic about purism. Not interested in it anymore.

NuSkooler2• 6 years ago

Parler is back up (as a website) and could even host a APK for Android. In addition, there are multiple Android stores as alternatives to the Play Store.

For years people have griped over this "fragmentation".

Google, Apple, and others are much too powerful. I cannot deny that. Something really needs done. However, they made the right move. It's not "censorship", and yes you do have options if you're the type that wants garbage like Parler.

dadarepublic• 6 years ago

As had been said prior, there is an examination to be made around the influence Google & Apple have in the software space.

However there is also the obligatory xkcd:https://xkcd.com/1357/

smlckz• 6 years ago

Now that governments are trying to catch up with the latest happenings, they might be able to stop Big Tech to achieve ''sovereignty''. But, as more people move towards free software, the governments in lust of power would like to restrict the freedom of the people in dealings with software. Also, oppressive goverments may use ''free'' software in oppression. How can we take away their ''freedom'' in such circumstances? (Can we? I don't think that is possible.)

Kusoneko2• 6 years ago

Aside from the obvious marketing attempt at the end, they are correct in stating this, no matter how you feel about [whichever is the latest thing the 2 app stores decide to remove], the fact that they can practically prevent near everyone from accessing any services that are provided as apps by simply agreeing to remove the app from both stores is way too much power in the hand of a few huge corporations. The duopoly of app stores is the issue here, not so much the removal of something the app store owners find objectionable. I am aware that there are other app stores (f-droid, other android phone companies having their own app stores that they sometimes/used to shove in phones as bloatware, not sure about Apple's phones if there is any such thing), but you need to go out of your way to get them, and most people don't bother, so the reach they have is tiny as opposed to the combined reach of 100% of the market share of app stores the Google/Apple duopoly has. Something that is removed from both app stores effectively doesn't exist for most people.

quantified• 6 years ago

I mostly agree. However it is a sad state of mind for most people, because web browsers provide an app interface for many purposes. There are so many sites that I don’t want to use the crappy available app for- if the company can’t make a good website, I’m always dubious it can code a decent app.

threatofrain• 6 years ago

According to the CEO of Parler, banks and payment vendors, law firms, text and mail services also cancelled on them. This is why Parler also motivates discussion of alternative currency. This is an expression of freedom of association by multiple parties. Google didn't need to ask Parler's lawyers or bank to quit them.

Parler became a hot potato, and whoever is the last one holding it receives a full-court press from all sides.

dalu2• 6 years ago

Much more troubling is that Telegram proactively removed right wing groups from their service, because those 2 companies removed Parler

syockit• 6 years ago

This is totally off-topic, but I really feel like slapping the designer of the font with a tuna or something. Is it intentionally designed to be provocative? Apparently, the font is called Libre Baskerville, but when I viewed it on Google Fonts it didn't have that annoying X-height.

fsckboy• 6 years ago

go to any website you'd like. Why is the lack of an app on the App Store or Play such a major hindrance?

have you ever been grateful you received a notification on your phone when a message arrived that was of great interest to you? Does your web browser do that, or do your apps do that?

you are smarter than the obtuse you are pretending to be to make your argument.

pennaMan• 6 years ago

Does your web browser do that, or do your apps do that?

On Android, both web apps and native apps do that. iOS only allows Safari that conveniently does not implement web push notifications, thus keeping a very wide spectrum of apps away from the open web and inside their app garden.

parliament32• 6 years ago

If Google bans an app, all a user has to do is follow a list of complicated (and often sketchy) procedures, sometimes involving disabling protections or installing sketchy software on another computer

You what? Download an .apk from anywhere (browser, email, usb, whatever) and click on it. Android will literally guide you directly to the "unknown sources" toggle. Then install your apk.

fsflover15• 6 years ago

Tell that to your grandma.

Parler Tricks: Making Software Disappear

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