Mazda made its first EV artificially slower 'to feel more like a gas car'

https://electrek.co/2020/01/10/mazda-electric-car-artificially-slower-to-feel-like-gas-car/

by lxm • 7 years ago

109 171 7 years ago

Steltek2• 7 years ago

I don't drive an electric car but my first thought was that, wouldn't this extend the battery range as well? The talk about being more powerful than gas is just a clever marketing ploy.

OnlineGladiator2• 7 years ago

The talk about being more powerful than gas is just a clever marketing ploy.

You're saying horsepower and torque are just numbers used for marketing?

majormajor2• 7 years ago

It's been that way for a while. Horsepower and torque numbers on mainstream vehicles - let alone "performance" cars regularly pushing out 500+hp now - lost much practical relevance to 99% of road driving situations even for "sporty" drivers about a decade ago.

lm284693• 7 years ago

No one in the world _needs_ to do 0-60 in less than 5 seconds in a family car/public roads. These perfs aren't even sustainable more than a few times in a row so it 100% is a marketing thing.

forwhomst5• 7 years ago

It does, yes. I always drive my electric Honda in its "eco mode", which only changes the response to throttle position. I get noticeably more range in that mode. In the "sport mode" it will just about rip the axles off at the slightest provocation, and the range is much worse.

filoleg5• 7 years ago

I am not sure if I understood your comment correctly, in case not, feel free to correct.

A torque in an electric car is imo “a marketing ploy” only until a person thinking that actually tries one of those cars. I can assure you that even the cheapest model 3 has acceleration and torque that feels insane compared to any gas car I have ever tried (including stuff like a new Mustang GT with a V8).

You dont need to be into cars at all to feel the massive difference, it isn’t like an audiophile thing where you have to be into it to be able to tell the small differences. The best comparison i can give you is that if you press the pedal all the way, your head jerks back and your stomach gets that exact same physical feeling you would get on a dropping rollercoaster.

Sidenote: same thing with electric motorcycles btw. Even gas motorcycles already have really fast acceleration comparable to some electric cars, but an electric motorcycle is something else. Test drove a Zero recently, and the difference between it and a gas bike felt just as massive as going from a gas car to an electric car. Almost like a personal low-speed teleportation device.

barrkel2• 7 years ago

Have you ridden aggressively tuned bikes like MV Agusta's Brutale?

I ask because I used to own a Brutale (I recently switched to an S1000R), and I noticed a guy on a Zero at a traffic light one day on my commute; he was fast enough off the line, but his shoulders got no more than 50cm or so ahead of me before he was behind me - I never saw the back of his bike.

My Brutale 920 had ~40hp less than my S1000R, but it felt faster in some ways because it had more jerk - the acceleration kicked in sooner. I kept doing accidental wheelies off the line the first week I owned it.

The S1000R is faster overall, but due to its smoothness, ride by wire throttle etc. it needs to be treated harshly with bigger throttle inputs to get the same feeling of responsiveness. I write this because it's not just a gas bike's power, but design choices that affect how fast it feels.

Steltek2• 7 years ago

Right, I've experienced being a passenger in a Tesla. It's impressive but completely unnecessary to go get some groceries.

Doing jackrabbit starts and stops on normal roads is going to have an impact to your mileage, just as if it was a regular ICE vehicle. Limiting the motor will lead to better mileage/range which then leads to a better customer impression when evaluating cars for purchase.

Casually dropping "It's so awesomely powerful, we had to put in restrictions for comfort" is straight up marketing speak to cover the tradeoff of 0-60 and battery range.

forwhomst5• 7 years ago

That's probably just an illusion with respect to electric motorcycles. All high-performance motorcycles have way more than enough torque to overwhelm the traction of their one little tire. They are _all_ "artificially slower" because the launch controls are trying to keep the rubber on the road. You'll note that the fastest production electric motorcycle is near the bottom of this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_mot...

tomatotomato372• 7 years ago

Most high-spec IC motorcycles are already twitchy enough to turn most people into organ donors. I can't imagine riding one with the instant torque of a motor, that's just insane

psv1• 7 years ago

Reminds of the shuffle function on iPods which had to be made less random in order to appear more natural to users.

loudmax• 7 years ago

My father built a picture frame display out of a Raspberry Pi and and old LCD monitor. It shows collections of photos in random order (that is, photos are grouped into directories and it pics a directory at random and displays those in sequence, then pics the next directory at random). He says he often gets the sense that some photo sets seem to show up more frequently than others. Helped him program the Pi, and I'm confident it really is random. Our brains are optimized to detect patterns, we'll pick out patterns where there aren't any. It doesn't feel random but it is.

Also, true randomness isn't optimal for the picture frame display or the iPod. True randomness does annoying things sometimes like pick the same thing twice in a row even though there are hundreds to choose from. Apple had the right idea here.

ogre_codes5• 7 years ago

Makes me wonder if they incorporate the feel of a laggy automatic transmission as well. Or perhaps they should force you to stop at a gas station once a week? Also... you have to fill up an oil reservoir once a quarter which slowly drips onto your driveway!

This is truly bizarre.

oliveshell• 7 years ago

It’s really not that bizarre. The article just describes a pedal-response curve; these are set by engineers for every EV, even a Tesla. Some are more aggressive than others.

“Slower” here probably isn’t appreciably slower at all, practically. It’s probably the difference between accelerating fast and accelerating so fast you feel physically ill.

Mazda is very good at making cars that feel nice to drive.

ogre_codes5• 7 years ago

"Slower" in this case is 0-60 in 9 seconds which is under-powered mini-van sluggish. That is not "nice to drive". I get that we don't need 0-60 in 4 seconds like Tesla wants to push, but limiting it to 9 second seems daft.

jacquesm2• 7 years ago

Modern day automatic transmissions are anything but laggy and typically outperform average (and quite a few not so average) drivers by a very comfortable margin. They get better mileage too...

ogre_codes5• 7 years ago

Modern day engines are capable of snappy acceleration too.

powowow• 7 years ago

This wouldn't be terribly surprising. My wife's internal combustion car has a CVT that emulates an automatic with gears and shift points, presumably because that felt more natural to drivers than having the engine just run at optimal RPM.

ogre_codes5• 7 years ago

That's pretty dumb as well. My Subaru with a CVT allows the driver to select from preset gear ratios, but unless you actively engage the paddles there are no artificial shift points as it should. The only time I can see value in the fake is when you are going downhill and want to control your speed without burning your brakes.

forwhomst5• 7 years ago

Every EV is "artificially slower" than it could be and the response to driver inputs is a totally arbitrary design decision.

tachyonbeam• 7 years ago

Not entirely arbitrary. Don't get me wrong, I like responsiveness, but extreme acceleration is necessarily less safe. Slower acceleration makes a vehicle more predictable, not just for the driver but for other vehicles and pedestrians too.

bloody-crow• 7 years ago

Certain road situations require faster accelerations to get out of safely and while you can employ safety techniques and driving style to avoid getting into them, they still do exist.

Tesla Model S Performance with its 0-60 under 3 seconds can still accelerate and drive very slowly and smoothly if the driver chooses to do so, while Mazda with artificially "slowed" acceleration can never go fast. At the end of the day, the car with more artificial limitations gives you less options and is inherently less safe.

gnode• 7 years ago

The decision is usually guided by practical limitations, such as grip, or the tolerance of parts. Limiting torque to improve acceleration, prevent skidding off the road, or not burn out the motor is a reasonable motivation in-line with the interests of the driver. Limiting torque to make your car feel like a less capable one is not.

That said, I can imagine some people may want a familiar driving experience, although it would make sense to make that a configurable option, e.g. 'sport mode' vs 'comfort mode'.

ilikehurdles2• 7 years ago

The same logic would also dictate that every ICE vehicle produced today is artificially slower because of its electronic traction controls and detuned engine computers; when actually having that unrestrained power would lead to pretty dangerous scenarios requiring a high level of driving skill that the 90% of us do not have. Turn off all stability controls on a vehicle nearing 300 HP and go wide-open-throttle, and you'll find yourself sideways in no time.

This type of power curve would also lead to increased wear on a some pretty expensive drivetrain components, so either the manufacturer has to greatly increase vehicle cost to cover for more resilient parts, or sell something that will tank the public's perception of the reliability of their brand.

Aftermarket pure software tunes can unlock some ridiculous amounts of horsepower and torque on modern cars, but expect your axles, brakes, suspension, or transmission components to need replacement much more frequently.

forwhomst5• 7 years ago

EV design is totally different from ICE design in this regard. EV design is all about how to avoid shorting the battery across the motor. ICE UX mirrors a physical process: the throttle pedal lets more air into the engine. In an electric car you're working with a more abstract process.

jmull• 7 years ago

There isn't really an issue here.

Mazda tuned the acceleration of their EV to feel like a conventional car. That's probably good UX if your market target is first-time EV buyer's who aren't especially keen on zipping around. The author of the article criticizes the decision because it makes the car less fun, apparently unaware that many people aren't looking for fun in a car, and aren't interested in aggressive driving.

Not to mention, the acceleration profile of conventional cars is tuned to the characteristics the designers want, too, and they aren't all tuned for "fun".

izzydata• 7 years ago

I bet it also saves battery so they can advertise a higher number of miles.

cronix• 7 years ago

Yes, charges last longer and the battery degrades slower with lower peak discharges. The same with charging too, though, but most people want to charge as fast as possible.

cptskippy3• 7 years ago

Most EVs have at least 2 modes you can configure. Many ICE vehicles have similar modes.

The Nissan Leaf has an "Eco" button that changes the acceleration curve and some models have a Hill Mode toggle on the Shifter that affects the regenerative braking characteristics.

pdpi• 7 years ago

I find it unlikely, but if that is actually so, it would be an entirely reasonable tradeoff to make.

me_me_me• 7 years ago

Have switch for a normal mode and sports mode - solved.

toomuchtodo2• 7 years ago

Perhaps “chill” and “standard” modes.

kulahan• 7 years ago

I've got a gas Mazda and it already has that. It would be strange to step into the EV version and NOT see one, honestly.

cptskippy3• 7 years ago

The author of the article criticizes the decision because it makes the car less fun

Isn't "fun" what Mazda is known for? Their "Zoom Zoom" campaign ran for 14 years on the premise that Mazdas are more fun to drive.

Now they're intentionally making them less fun?

eloff• 7 years ago

Yeah, it's a very odd choice from Mazda specifically for this reason.

empath75• 7 years ago

An electric Miata seems like a no brainer.

kube-system• 7 years ago

Torque wasn't ever a top characteristic that made Mazdas fun.

The last RX8 had 33 fewer lb-ft of torque than this EV, and the current Miata has 44 fewer.

Mazdas have never been straight-line fast, but they have great handling dynamics.

Hamuko5• 7 years ago

Isn't "fun" what Mazda is known for?

No. And the people looking to buy a compact crossover from Mazda are not looking for a fun car. In fact, no person looking for a fun car is looking at compact crossovers.

memco• 7 years ago

Last year when we were looking for a new car we considered a Mazda and were told by our salesman that Mazda didn’t have an EV because EVs were not fun to drive. And they would not sell an EV until it was fun. Their commitment to this idea was very awkward. I’m honestly not not bothered as much by their decision to tune the feel of t he e car: we do this in tech all the time, but I’m confused by the spin put on their decisions as in the name of “fun”: whose definition of fun? What metrics do they use to decide what’s fun? In this case it seems fun is “same as it already is,”

olyjohn• 7 years ago

Exactly. If someone is buying a compact CUV, they are probably looking for 4 doors, a hatchback, and a high ride height. Not really a vehicle that most people look to for fun.

Not to mention, reducing the torque output probably also saves a few electrons and extends the range a bit.

lowdose2• 7 years ago

It's about the missed metaphor. Before Tesla EV = not a car. Tesla proved EV can have a Ferrari like acceleration and hence EV = car. It isn't always about UX. Sometimes you have to prove another point which Tesla did. Nobody at the traffic light made & makes fun of a Tesla so consumers feel safe to buy a Tesla. That was a major point in the buying decision of average consumers and probably is why the cybertruck looks as safe as a tank.

toomuchtodo2• 7 years ago

This is also why Musk sent a team with a Model S (tri motor Plaid mode) to the Nurburgring track and built a Supercharger there. Appearance, status, and signaling matter to consumers. It’s not good enough to be good enough. Tesla has to show they can be the best choice (and arguably, they have shown that).

jacquesm2• 7 years ago

Nobody at the traffic light made & makes fun of a Tesla
consumers feel safe to buy a Tesla

That's a bit of a stretch. First of all, why would anybody in a supercar make fun of a Tesla, they're not aimed at the same market. Consumers feel perfectly safe to buy a Prius or Leaf and neither of those have Tesla like acceleration, and don't need it either.

People making fun of other people because of the vehicles they drive are just insecure.

If you really think that the acceleration characteristics of a vehicle is what sells your average car then you're mistaken, most people simply need transportation and don't want to do drag races in traffic.

mikestew2• 7 years ago

Nobody at the traffic light made & makes fun of a Tesla so consumers feel safe to buy a Tesla.

Eight years of Nissan Leaf ownership, and the only comments I’ve ever gotten at lights were positive. Used to be my friend hated to go with me in the Leaf because every time I parked it, someone would chat me up for five minutes. Not so much anymore now that EVs are more common. Now, no one even looks at me. Fellow Leaf drivers don’t even wave anymore.

So I don’t know where that massive insecurity is coming from.

ivanhoe• 7 years ago

Nobody at the traffic light made & makes fun of a Tesla so consumers feel safe to buy a Tesla

Certain psychological profile of consumers. I personally couldn't care less about it and would never pay more to impress random strangers on traffic lights... and while I'm sure I'm a minority in this, I like to believe there's still a significant market niche occupied by people who're closer to my view than insecure 16 year olds'... so in my eyes this Mazda's move makes a lot of sense, they just don't target the same people as Elon Musk

fao_3• 7 years ago

Nobody at the traffic light made & makes fun of a Tesla so consumers feel safe to buy a Tesla.

Why would you care what other people think of your car if you yourself like it?

yongjik2• 7 years ago

Nobody at the traffic light made fun of my 2008 third-hand Toyota Yaris either - I guess it happens in some part of the world, but I'm not sure where.

I mean, to make fun of my Yaris someone has to:

- Stop right next to me at some intersection

- Roll down the window

- Somehow convince me to roll down my window when I'm enjoying my Brahms and not even looking at them

- Yell "Hey your car sucks!"

...why would anybody go through the trouble? -.-

d1zzy• 7 years ago

Try driving an (electric) Smart in the US. At least in the Bay Area everyone looks at us like we're crazy and inevitably there's at least one person a week commenting something in the parking lot.

GaryNumanVevo• 7 years ago

Ferrari acceleration maybe, handling like a Chevy Impala

misterbwong• 7 years ago

Agree on this one. This is probably more about Mazda's wanting to optimize the driving experience than about talking down EV's or pushing fuel cell as the author implies.

FTA: I know that Mazda likes to tune their cars for a specific driving feel, but I refuse to believe they couldn’t work the fun acceleration of EVs into their driving feeling.

Seems like they did exactly what the author is asking. Looking at Mazda's lineup, their core philosophy revolves around driver experience and feel (zoom-zoom) so it makes a lot of sense that they tune (down in this case) their EV's to match what they feel is the best experience for a car.

jandrese• 7 years ago

I don't know why that other post is dead. Having a "sport" mode that changes the acceleration profile for those few times when people really want it seems like a no-brainer solution here. It's entirely a software fix, and something people are already familiar with in cars.

This should be a non-issue.

torgoguys• 7 years ago

Agree. Also, if you click through to the underlying article where the quote comes from you find that Mazda engineers were being very conscious of the total environmental impact when designing their EV. (Let's set aside their claim about the EV vs. diesels for now). Keeping people from spending an enormous number of electrons to accelerate a bit quicker falls within this design philosophy. Even that that isn't the reason quoted in the article, I bet it was a factor.

natch4• 7 years ago

It would be mistaken for these engineers to think that something that leads people to pass on their offering and instead choose an ICE car would be better for environmental impact.

Better acceleration may use more power, but if it means people buy EVs instead of ICE cars, then it is helping the goal.

lr2• 7 years ago

0-60 in 9 seconds is not only terrible, it is dangerous. Despite what state rules are regarding merging onto freeways/highways/tollways/etc., a car really should be doing the speed of the other cars on the road at the merge point, otherwise all kinds of bad things can and do happen. I drive a lot, and the pokey cars merging are terrible for everyone involved at the point of merging.

bradlys2• 7 years ago

9 seconds is plenty. The issue is that most drivers in those cars don't floor it to get onto onramps. So, 0-60 goes from 9 seconds to 20-30 seconds because they just refuse to push the pedal down further.

everdrive• 7 years ago

This is easily possible with a 9 second 0-60 if the on ramps are built properly. I have a Ford Fiesta, and it's lucky to hit 0-60 in 9 seconds. I always make sure I'm at highway speed before I merge.

Hamuko5• 7 years ago

0-60 in 9 seconds is not only terrible, it is dangerous.

This is a downright laughable statement.

My car does 0-100 km/h in about 8-9 seconds. Plenty fast. In fact, I'm not really encountering any road users that accelerate faster than I do. No issues with merging, no issues with overtakes, nothing.

Here's someone joining the Autobahn with the same engine and gearbox as me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUiXwbbITGQ Please watch and observe at how undramatic this whole thing is.

bayindirh• 7 years ago

0-60 in 9 seconds is not only terrible, it is dangerous.

No. I drive a 2001 Ford focus automatic. It's only 4 gears, has a torque converter and driven by a 100BHP engine. On paper, it's a sluggish car.

The gearbox has two kickdown modes. Give throttle a gentle push and it shifts down (interpreting we need to go faster) but, if you floor it, the gearbox quickly kickdowns until engine near-redlines, engine program changes to beast mode and the acceleration becomes unbelievable. I had used the feature a couple of times involuntarily and it literally saved my life.

0-60 in 9 seconds is not terrible. Not adding required emergency features is.

trophycase• 7 years ago

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted so much. Acceleration that is too slow can be very dangerous (my old girlfriend had a junker that couldn't get up to speed quickly and almost got rear ended a few times) and also disruptive to the flow of traffic. The more efficiently a car can flow through lanes (i.e. merging farther left on the highway without having the next car have to brake for you) can reduce traffic.

detaro• 7 years ago

For reference, here's an older 0-100km/h list for 9s: https://www.motor-talk.de/blogs/rotherbach/beschleunigung-0-... (and the full list https://www.motor-talk.de/blogs/rotherbach/beschleunigung-0-... )

Nullabillity• 7 years ago

If you're driving fast enough (or are inattentive enough) that you can't stop (or even slow down) for any reasonably expected obstacle then that's completely on you, and you need to slow down.

akira2501• 7 years ago

That's probably good UX if your market target is first-time EV buyer's

The F-150 FX4 truck I'm driving lately has a "sport mode" that completely changes the character of the acceleration and the "pedal feel" when driving. Why couldn't Mazda do the same thing?

many people aren't looking for fun in a car, and aren't interested in aggressive driving.

I feel like those two factors aren't actually mutually inclusive.

cars is tuned to the characteristics the designers want,

Why does that have to be the case? We allow customization and control of every other device in our lives, why not EV cars?

cestith• 7 years ago

They do on my gas CX-5 - a sport/normal mode fore the power curve and also a partly manual shifting mode or I can leave it in drive.

bitexploder2• 7 years ago

Make it a simple setting users can activate... Tesla's default is full power acceleration, but you can toggle it to be really sedate. Mazda could have easily done that. More proof how far traditional auto manufacturers are behind Tesla. Tesla is a software company that happens to make cars. Mazda is a car company that has to write software.

mikestew2• 7 years ago

Umm, the Leaf had similar settings before the Model S came out. Something, something reality distortion field.

seltzered_• 7 years ago

Yeah. I don't understand why this article was written with a negative tone.

There's been a number of high-end EV crashes documented where they've rammed into homes and businesses, while it's unknown if they're sudden unintended acceleration issues I think it's great to hear other manufacturers are likely considering the human factors issues.

perl4ever7• 7 years ago

Well, if average human reaction time is a significant portion of the time it take for a car to get to 60 mph, then it would be hard to see why accidents wouldn't increase. Your foot slips and at least the car is totalled. It's not like high powered gas cars and motorcycles don't have this problem, with people who are not 80 and senile. People make jokes about Mustangs crashing at Cars & Coffee. People make videos of idiots in Lamborghinis crashing because they tried to do a burnout.

toss1• 7 years ago

Au contraire, I'd say there is an issue here (as someone who's both owned and raced BMWs and Mazdas in various series)

Mazda specifically markets themselves as fun to drive - the whole "zoom-zoom" thing

They put huge effort into making the driving dynamics both feel good and work well. Even the SUVs have a [Sport] mode toggle switch next to the shift lever that changes various shifting, suspension, and engine parameters for a different feel and performance profile.

It is no surprise that Mazda thought about this in depth and decided that the default should be to feel like a regular combustion engine/gearbox.

What is surprising, especially since it's available in other cars, is that that they do not seem to have included a Sport Mode, whereby a driver could access all the available performance.

Having both the default and sport mode would definitely make me more likely to consider the car, vs. the ICE-like mode only.

(also a bit surprising that the article never mentions asking Mazda about this option)

ksec• 7 years ago

I am surprised no one has mentioned it yet. The mostly likely reason for doing so is insurance.

By modelling it after some very good "Zoom Zoom" Mazda driving characteristic, there is a higher probability it might fall into similar profile for insurance.

One of the problem with Tesla is its fast acceleration dramatically increases its rate of accident. To the point where some insurance company are no longer accepting it and Tesla had to insure it on their own.

erikpukinskis4• 7 years ago

Why do you suspect there are 160+ comments on this thread if, as you say, it’s a non issue?

gok• 7 years ago

Reminds me of Sony purposely crippling their MP3 players so they didn't cut too much into their CD player business and album sales.

blackearl2• 7 years ago

Sounds like it's not slower overall but slower acceleration. Would be a good optional feature, since I'd imagine that the torque of an EV could feel like a sharp jerk, causing some discomfort or motion sickness. I have family that drive like that and I can't deal with their style.

JohnFen• 7 years ago

I have family that drive like that and I can't deal with their style.

I've always called those people "digital drivers". It seems they're always either actively accelerating or actively braking, never anything in between.

blackearl2• 7 years ago

I've always heard it as a "leadfoot"

alfanick• 7 years ago

This article is very biased: the author clearly loves high torque that move to electric motor gives by default.

Mazda did something very smart here - emulate current days experience, so presumably ordinary people swap to ordinary EV, because "it's a thing now".*

* - it's a thing now - aka goverments give subsidiares, aka it may be less CO2, it's cleaner, etc... is it? I don't know. I don't care. I do understand Mazda's move though.

WhompingWindows• 7 years ago

electrek is basically a Tesla/EV bull, they own shares in TSLA and get tons of free EV-kickbacks and perks... you should look at everything on that site with a skeptical eye.

rasz• 7 years ago

When talking about electrek kickbacks you should always start with half a $million in roadsters https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-roadster-free-killed-re...

mdszy2• 7 years ago

goverments give subsidiares

1. pretty sure you mean subsidies

2. not all, wisconsin actually charges an extra tax if you drive an EV

bagacrap• 7 years ago

That fact about Wisconsin seems crazy so I looked it up and it's $100/yr which I can only assume is meant to recapture lost gas tax revenue. Hardly in the same ballpark as the federal subsidy which is $2500-7500.

_ea1k3• 7 years ago

As an owner of a few Mazdas, I am also biased, but that gives me a similar opinion to the article. Trimming torque intentionally is really not consistent with Mazda's past behavior. Emulating slower cars shouldn't be a thing at a company that trademarked "Zoom-Zoom".

otherme1232• 7 years ago

From 2020 Europe is fining car makers if they don't have EV vehicles available (https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_...). The easiest way to a car maker to avoid the fines, even if they don't want to make EVs like Mazda, is to put a couple of EVs that lows the average emissions of the fleet.

exabrial• 7 years ago

Wanted to explain the reason for my flag.

* The article presents a controversial, click-bait title

* The article contents intentionally misrepresents very selective and incomplete quotes without surrounding context

* The article is low on factual content, high on opinion, while representing itself otherwise.

Marsymars2• 7 years ago

I don’t really like these moves, but it seems pretty standard on EVs. Maybe someone can correct me (I couldn’t find a confirming article via Google) but IIRC Teslas apply a slight regenerative braking effect when coasting to more closely match the feel of coasting in an ICE, even though it costs efficiency.

njarboe2• 7 years ago

I think if we were starting from scratch that having just one pedal for velocity/acceleration control in a vehicle would be better than having a gas pedal and break pedal. It is nice to have the vehicle slow down when you let up on the gas pedal and not have to move over to the break pedal. My Honda 550 motorcycle was much more fun to drive hard in the country than my Kawasaki 650. With the Honda the engine breaking was sufficient all most all of the time while on the Kawasaki I would have to engage the break before most curves.

Marsymars2• 7 years ago

From a UX perspective a single pedal might be better, but from an efficiency perspective, I'd rather have manual control over acceleration and braking.

Heck, given the option, I'd try a car with three separate controls for standard brakes, regenerative braking and acceleration. I expect it would be a lateral move in complexity compared to the stick shift I currently drive.

KorematsuFred• 7 years ago

Very thankful to Mazda for this change. I love the instant acceleration as a driver but I get headaches and motion sickness as a passenger. If I am in a Tesla I specifically ask person to accelerate slowly.

throw7• 7 years ago

"We increased the 0-60 time to 9 seconds so it feels like you're in a gas car." - Mazda

mmm... ok.

potta_coffee• 7 years ago

The Miata is one of the most fun cars to drive, and it's intentionally underpowered. Only about 150hp.

sxates2• 7 years ago

For those defending this decision as rational, are you aware the expected 0-60 time is 9 seconds?

That's not just a little slower for comfort. That's pitiful for any car. I am not sure I've ever owned a car that slow. For comparison, Mazda's full size SUV, the CX9, does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds. 9 seconds is more on par with the Mazda 2, a tiny sub-compact.

We need EVs to take over for the health of our planet, and the way we do that is by making them superior to gas cars, not nerfing them so they aren't competitive with them. The average buyer doesn't need a 4s 0-60 time but quick acceleration eliminates objections and perceptions that EVs aren't as good as gas.

newnewpdro3• 7 years ago

"Car and Driver magazine performed a comparison between the 2010 Honda Insight and the 2010 Toyota Prius. In this test, the Insight achieved 0–60 mph in 10.3 seconds (Prius, 10.0 seconds)"

9s 0-60 is 10% quicker than a 2010 Prius or Insight. Clearly there's a market for this level of acceleration.

sxates2• 7 years ago

Those are some of the slowest cars on the road today, that sacrifice everything for fuel efficiency. Is that the bar for an EV? We can't do better than that?

toast02• 7 years ago

My first vehicle is quoted at 13.3 seconds 0-60; by the time I was driving it (it was made before I was born), I'm sure it didn't even get that level of performance. This was never an issue in driving around the Los Angeles area; the performance was consistent and predictable, which is all you really need.

Hamuko5• 7 years ago

I learned to drive on a 1992 Mercedes-Benz 200D. It does 0-100 in about 18 seconds. And it's not even that bad.

Animats• 7 years ago

Maybe they just don't want to fool with the cooling issues. Tesla has to spend a lot of money on cooling features, in motor, battery, and electronics, to get that acceleration.

MisterTea• 7 years ago

Worst case offer a way to disable it or adjust the acceleration gain.

fortran77• 7 years ago

You want the car to feel familiar. So they have the accelerator pedal have a similar performance curve to that of a gas car. This way people can sit it it and control it they way they expect it to perform.

Makes perfect sense.

btian• 7 years ago

Ironic coming from a company with tagline "zoom zoom"

fbnlsr• 7 years ago

It should be noted that Electrek is clearly biased. From wikipedia:

Their positive coverage of Tesla has been criticised by some automotive journalists. Its main authors have disclosed ownership of Tesla stock, substantial profit from referrals to Tesla, and ownership of Tesla cars.

jojo2000• 7 years ago

Even if their disclosed reasoning seems a little light-headed, the consequences are real at a platform level, less acceleration means :

- lower max(amperage) to deliver for battery pack (lowered specs)

- longer-lasting battery pack at same energy capacity (strong accelerations consume lots of energy, and wear the battery)

- reduced weight (critical parameter for higher km/energy) :

  - lighter motor (reduced max torque)

  - lighter brakes (because of lower max speed)

  - ...

Low-tech solutions can sometimes be what people need. Solving the problem "go from point a to point b" in a safe, cost-efficient, and energy-efficient manner, is not a solved problem (yet).

KMnO4• 7 years ago

In ~2016 I drove a preproduction electric vehicle from a major manufacturer not known for making fast cars. It wasn’t a sports car, and it wasn’t even one of their high end models. But that thing was fast.

When I drove the same car later (post production) it was noticeably slower. It seems that they had tuned the power controller to be more conservative. Honestly, the slower tuning is better. Electric motors can give instant power and lurch the car forward with little effort. My foot would become sore driving through the city, as I hovered it above the pedal and made micropresses to maintain speed. The new tuning (and gas engines in general) allow you quite a bit of leeway. Press the pedal twice as far as you should have, and you can slowly release it before the car gets ahead of you.

Having a car that’s quick of the starting line is a lot of fun, but make that a mode. Smooth, slow, driving is just more comfortable.

pwellner• 7 years ago

They should also have made it artificially feel like it's shifting gears!

Mazda made its first EV artificially slower 'to feel more like a gas car'

Related Stories