The next generation of wall chargers

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/1/30/18203879/gan-chargers-anker-powerport-atom-pd-1-ravpower-45w

by rutenspitz • 7 years ago

247 195 7 years ago

amq• 7 years ago

Still waiting for the next generation of USB-C hubs. Currently, almost all cause Wi-Fi issues, most will have Windows complain about "limited display connection".

madengr4• 7 years ago

That’s just due to cost cutting (poor shielding). GaN will allow a faster slew rate (higher break down voltage), so emissions will actually become worse.

The FCC needs to enforce emissions regulations. I remember when PCs (even the C64) had cases to meet emissions requirements. Now you see PCs in glass cases. It really sucks doing amateur radio in an urban area due to spectrum pollution.

stefan_• 7 years ago

Ironically, the best USB-C charger for something like a phone (laptops come with chargers, anyway) I've found is simply the Raspberry Pi 4 USB-C charger - very cheap ($10), small, plenty power (15W), fixed cable and no fucking blue Anker LED that can illuminate your bedroom.

vanniv• 7 years ago

Monoprice has a really nice line of multi-port chargers called "Obsidian" whose feature list includes "no lights"

In particular, the 60W USB-C + 3x12W USB-A brick is really nice.

tjoff• 7 years ago

For your bedroom you'd really want an old 5W charger. Why turbo charge and put permanent strain on your battery when anything that takes 6+ hours will do.

jonplackett• 7 years ago

Apparently (with iPhones at least) you shouldn’t have to worry about that anymore.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-ios-13s-optimized-battery-...

driverdan2• 7 years ago

If it's a good quality charger it shouldn't be feeding the battery enough power to impact its lifetime.

driverdan2• 7 years ago

I bought a roll of cheap 5% window tint and put it over all device LEDs. It makes it dim enough to not impact sleep but still visible.

If you don't want to see the LED you can cover it with electrical tape.

adrianmonk3• 7 years ago

My preferred alternative to electrical tape is a piece of aluminum foil stuck on with painter's masking tape. Aluminum foil (or any metal) is really excellent at blocking all the light, and painter's tape doesn't leave residue.

sjwright• 7 years ago

I used to run a Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP. A great monitor for the time, but the power LED was so damn bright that black electrical tape didn't fully extinguish it.

bound008• 7 years ago

I use a dark, but not black, colored electrical tape to kill the brightness of any leds in my bedroom, or that I take with me when I travel. Black will kill the light entirely, but other colors will permit you to see the state of the led underneath.

joecool1029• 7 years ago

You know, I thought that until I started to test it.

I have a Kill-A-Watt for rough measurements and the pi4 charger is slower than my GPD Pocket or ipad pro charger. It does pull 14W or so sometimes, but there's a big limiting factor, it's only 5V. The ipad charger does 5V/9V on USB-PD and the pocket does 5V/9V/12V. So if the cable wears at all, you won't be getting the full rated power due to voltage drop. It's like trying to use a plastic mixer straw to drink a beverage vs a regular one.

I already have a portapow meter for measuring USB-A stuff including watching quickcharge 2.0 stuff boost the voltage on the line. Proper USB-C meter/tester comes this week, then I intend to writeup findings on cables/chargers.

joshvm• 7 years ago

The official Google charger (18W) is good, albeit about double the price. It's one of very few wall chargers that will power a FLIR Duo Pro camera without it boot looping. It's very picky about voltage and conks out if there's any droop. Most of Anker's products don't work, though some of the power banks are fine.

ur-whale2• 7 years ago

Would anyone knowledgeable care to explaine why GaN based charges are more efficient than Silicon based ones ?

fwip• 7 years ago

Basically, GaN has less electric resistance than silicon. They generate less heat when used in high voltage (or amperage, depending on your viewpoint) applications.

We can't make GaN transistors nearly as small as we can make silicon ones, but transformers/chargers don't need many transistors in them, so it's fine.

jSully24• 7 years ago

This article describes that: https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-nitride-... (link was in the article).

ur-whale2• 7 years ago

I did read the linked article.

It doesn't really explain anything.

madengr4• 7 years ago

GaN has a higher breakdown voltage than Si, and a higher drift velocity, which allows a faster switching speed (for the equivalent bias).

For power supplies and switched mode RF amplifiers, you need to switch the transistor on and off as fast as possible; ideally an open or short circuit. During the time is is transitioning from on to off, it is dissipating power, thus losing efficiency in your circuit.

If you can operate at a higher bias, your passive support circuitry can operate at a lower current (lower I^2*R losses) not to mention smaller due to higher frequency (smaller inductors and capacitors).

The faster switching also generates more harmonics, which can align in phase to cause higher voltage transients, thus you need a higher breakdown.

The issue with GaN is fabricating it. It is a compound semiconductor grown with epitaxy (layer by layer) and has to be lattice matched to a carrier substrate, unlike Si which is diffusion doped into the bulk Si substrate. So GaN is maybe at 8” wafers while Si is much bigger. Some GaN is on Si carrier (cheaper but lower thermal conductivity) and some in SiC (expensive but better thermal conductivity). The goal is to grow it on diamond, but again the lattice matching is a problem.

The longer term goal is diamond semiconductors. Maybe 30 years from now that will replace GaN, as GaN is doing to GaAs and Si for certain applications.

Nasrudith3• 7 years ago

I know that "silicion" isn't just pure silicon given dopings but I can't help but ponder the environmental and toxicological differences between the two. Gallium nitride seems loke it might be more toxic and gives me a sneaking suspicion they will be a "compact floreacent tube" solution that is a flash in the pan decade standard that gets replaced by something far less toxic anyway (LEDs). However I know that I don't know the details so I cannot judge only raise concerns which I hope were already addressed.

I understand the logistics issues involved in standardization of repeatably used sockets but USB chargers are so very "unhygenic" from a security perspective. Proper design from the data end shouldn't allow any unexpected changes but that is error prone in practice. It is sort of like sharing cups - in theory the immune system should take care of any pathogens but in practice it is a needless risk.

Getting into engineer dreams, an ideal design would involve readily apparent subsets between charge and data pins even if they occupy the same socket. So any charger honeypots to plant or extract data would be obviously untrustworthy.

zootboy• 7 years ago

Guess what semiconductor white LEDs use?

It's gallium nitride.

microcolonel• 7 years ago

Gallium nitride seems like it might be more toxic...

Surely not more toxic than gallium arsenide. The amounts of material involved in a manufactured product are pretty tiny, so the semiconductor material is not hugely concerning.

Nasrudith3• 7 years ago

Thanks for the correction.

kens• 7 years ago

There's no need to ponder the toxicity of gallium nitride and worry about your "sneaking suspicion" that it's toxic. It's in the "may cause skin irritation" level of toxicity, so really not worth worrying about. https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf

Nasrudith3• 7 years ago

That is good to hear. I remembered the mercury resemblance and recalled it as a "mercury lite" toxic. Turns out even pure gallium is pretty mild.

nwienert• 7 years ago

And then there’s this thing which is smaller than either and 60W

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fu...

CoolGuySteve• 7 years ago

I just bought one of these a few days ago. It's small and light, definitely an improvement over most power bricks but it's only a little smaller than my wife's MacBook Air charger

cjcampbell• 7 years ago

I recommend the RavPower 61W GaN over Innergie. The Innergie is smaller, but it is 3x the cost and, in my experience, less reliable and less ergonomic.

I purchased the Innergie after a previous travel charger failed. Loved it at first, but started experiencing issues pretty quickly. The first issue I encountered was that the plug would fold in frequently while I was trying to plug into outlet. Over the course of a couple months, I started seeing more issues with the reliability of the charger as well. It never completely failed, but I would often have to play around with reversing the cable and the direction of the outlet side usb-c in order to get charging to start. This was a bit concerning to me given that complaint USB-C cables are completely bi-directional.

codetrotter• 7 years ago

Anyone have a good recommendation for a wall charger similar to RavPower mentioned in parent comment but with EU plug?

Additionally, is there a good charger with EU plug that I can use to charge both my MacBook Air 2018 (USB-C) and my iPhone X with at the same time?

notacoward2• 7 years ago

That is not smaller than an Atom PD1. The Atom is 1.61 x 1.37 x 1.50 in. This is 1.18 (x 1.18) x 2.36. The shorter dimensions don't matter because both approximate the outlet dimensions, but the Innergie will stick out nearly 50% further. Also, 88g vs. 59g. Not smaller by any reasonable definition.

As it happens, I have the Atom. Yes, it's true that it can barely keep up with my MBP while in use, but that's not how I use it. It's fantastic as a more convenient option overnight, or as a second charger for my phone, my Switch, etc. I already have a bigger four-port, and any single-port can only be an adjunct to that, so a single-port that can do 60W adds no value. I suspect people in situations similar to mine far outnumber those for whom a single 60W port would suffice.

scosman• 7 years ago

I have both PD1 and RavPower 61w. Tried carrying just the PD1 for a while, but got caught twice with zero power and took ~15 mins before I could boot my MBP. If you use any heavy power apps (Chrome, xCode) it drains faster than it charges. Both are great for their size, but I'd recommend the RavPower for any laptop use cases; it's only a little bigger.

standardUser• 7 years ago

I'm still shocked at how poorly most plugs are designed for fitting in various outlets and power strips.

moonbug• 7 years ago

that's mostly because American domestic outlets are the worst in the world.

toomuchtodo2• 7 years ago

Do you have an example you'd hold up as the ideal or best case outlet?

mdszy• 7 years ago

good fucking jokes mate

https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/...

LeonM• 7 years ago

That depends on where you live, but yes, the design used in the USA (known as the 'type A' connector) was very poorly designed. It gives very little mechanical support.

The country I live in happens to use the type F connector, which is very sturdy.

adrianmonk3• 7 years ago

I'm pretty sure they mean fitting as in not unnecessarily blocking adjacent outlets. Not as in mating securely.

Tade0• 7 years ago

How do does gallium nitride stack up against silicon carbide? I heard the latter is responsible for the recent increase in efficiency of EVs.

madengr4• 7 years ago

Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is essentially obsoleted now.

What’s interesting is how the DOD heavily invested in GaN technology in 90s and 00s, pushing the USA ahead of Japan in compound semiconductor. Weather that lead will stay; who knows. The Chinese have a GaN fab now. GaN is critical for RADAR and higher power SATCOM, so big defense support that has dual use for civilian wireless comms.

baybal23• 7 years ago

Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is essentially obsoleted now.

Wait wait wait... GaN and SiC have very, very different use profiles, and characteristics. SiC is by no means obsolete, and nor are purpose made silicon switches.

SiC is here to stay because of one very unique trait among all other semiconductors - a very pronounced negative temperature coefficient, and without extreme non-linearity.

Second to that is more or less linear threshold voltage temperature coefficient. GaN has positive threshold voltage temperature coefficient.

Third, SiC can simply operate at higher temperatures, and have known longer lifespan. GaN's current limits are WAY lower.

Fourth, transfer characteristic... Si, GaN, and SiC are all very different. This is one of few measures on which plain silicon beats contenders.

IndrekR4• 7 years ago

SiC has 4x better thermal conductivity than GaN. Operating temperature and breakdown voltage are also higher. You can buy 1.2kV SiC transistors right now, GaN on Si maxes out around 600V. High temperature/high voltage/high power will remain SiC territory for now.

paul7986• 7 years ago

Are there any wireless charging pads or surfaces that I can buy/use with a phone case that has a thick backing?

Scoundreller• 7 years ago

A dirt cheap one still works with an otter box for me.

SlowRobotAhead2• 7 years ago

WOW... This is a horribly misleading article and discussion. The silicon of the switching circuit PALES in comparison to the real magic here.

The wattage capability and size of these chargers is only possible because of US “power delivery”. These chargers are NOT hitting 30+ watts at 5V traditional USB voltage. Yes, there is another power and ground wire pair in the cable, but iirc they got smaller in diameter.

These devices are small and cool there because your device can charge at up to 20V now.

GAN didn’t outright make that happen on the source or sink side. It didn’t hurt, it’s cool, but the difference is smaller than they are implying by comparing a 5V device to a 20V device.

An article that goes on about fast charging and never says “20V” once is not telling you the full story.

goosehonk• 7 years ago

I believe the point was that GaN semiconductors make these chargers more compact, cooler, and lighter than their silicon competitors.

SlowRobotAhead2• 7 years ago

But that isn’t really the case. These chargers wouldn’t be pushing 30+W to device at this size if they weren’t also at 20V. One way before the other!

Lock it down to 5V and the size goes way up. The comparison to Apple’s 5V and 5W from like 2008 is at best misleading.

Are these smaller because of better silicon, yes, are they marginally smaller and the real difference is USB pd, also yes.

Terretta2• 7 years ago

You can falsify your own argument by checking out the range of PD2 chargers from Anker or RavPower, observing the models with similar wattage and same multi voltages including up to 20V, and then noting the size differences.

They’re not making the new models bigger just for fun.

ksec2• 7 years ago

I asked a year ago When could we expect GaN to be more widely available and it seems the answer is still true as of today.

GaN mosfet costs 10x more [1] than a silicon one of similar power rating. And the multiples gets wider at 15x for 1K units.

I doubt we will see Apple include a GaN charger as default for quite some time.

[1]: IPAW60R380CEXKSA1 (silicon) costs $1.26, IGT60R190D1SATMA1 (GaN) costs $13.

huslage• 7 years ago

I just got a new 16" MacBook Pro and the power brick is 96W, but the same size as the 60W from a few years ago. I'd say this is likely a GaN unit, but I don't have any proof of that.

dmd• 7 years ago

Lots of people have opened them up already; it's not GaN.

ksec2• 7 years ago

Well no, it is not, [1] is the world smallest 100W Charger with GaN and 4 Ports. And it is even smaller than the 61W MBP Charger with 1 Port.

And the link to my previous question's answer [2] from an electrical engineer. I will paste it here as well.

Cost, and the fact that it doesn't actually buy you much. I've evaluated GaN for a couple recent designs I've been involved in and found that its benefits simply didn't justify its costs. What GaN actually does is, mainly, decrease switching losses. That means switching frequency can go up, or efficiency, or power density. These are all good things, to be sure, but the magnitude of improvement GaN brings to most designs is simply not large enough to justify the cost of the parts and the increased design attention needed to use them. (They're fussy little things.) That said, I'm bullish on GaN in the medium-term. There are some cool tricks that are infeasible or impossible without them, and they really are better in a lot of ways. It'll just take a while for them to trickle downmarket, and even still they're not going to be replacing Si FETs anytime soon. (Part of the lag in GaN adoption is simply that Si FETs have gotten really, really good.)

Yes, size is the main product-level advantage of GaN. But it only lets some of the system shrink; for something like a mains charger, you still need the isolation magnetics, so your overall size is still constrained. And at the power levels of a few watts that many chargers work with, Si FETs are simply good enough. A 5W USB charger isn't going to get any smaller with GaN. It only starts to get interesting with really high power densities.

[1] https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/11/Hyper...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18853313

moreati2• 7 years ago

For Brits and visitors to our shores there's https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone and https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-gener...

Angostura• 7 years ago

The Anker box mentioned is £20 on Amazon.co.uk

moreati2• 7 years ago

I mentioned the Mu because it has a folding UK plug. Small chargers lose much of their smallness when using a standard UK plug.

floatboth2• 7 years ago

Any of these fancy GaN chargers have USB-IF certification?

dzhiurgis5• 7 years ago

It’s not perfect yet: Anker’s 30W Atom PD 1 struggles to power something as large as a 13-inch MacBook Pro

Umm wot, maybe older MacBooks, maybe when gaming or rendering. For writing code and browsing on a 15incher I'm averaging 20watts. Cheap 12v cigarette lighter one that does 24w is enough (but barely) to keep things running for me. If I turn off most of apps I get as low 6watts on a hexacore device. I use iStat menus to monitor my power use which is quite exciting.

javagram• 7 years ago

Apple’s recommended charger for a 13inch MBP is a 61W adapter, for the 15 inch is an 87W and for the 16 inch is a 96W.

Although you can use an under-specced adapter it probably won’t be enough to power and charge the system while fully using the CPU, GPU, and screen.

dzhiurgis5• 7 years ago

Basically you just repeated what I just said...

I am actually considering buying 30W one for it's portability.

But then again I am not a YouTube influencer that occasionally games and cuts videos (you know, the person that Apple designs it's computers nowadays for).

agurk2• 7 years ago

When I got a new laptop this summer I researched what chargers were out there, as I was fed up with carrying the normal assortment of cables and chargers. I settled for another GaN charger - the Innergie Powergear 60c[0] which is a very decent size for 60w and not having a mains lead built into it (still very common on non-mac chargers) makes it a lot more compact.

I travel a lot, often with more than one laptop, so now I'm very happy I can charge all my electronics with this one charger and also with the changeable country tips it's more compact than a travel adaptor.

The only downside I've had with it is the US power tip got bent the first time I used it - I contacted Innergie to see if I could get a replacement, but they never got back to me.

[0] http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136

p1mrx2• 7 years ago

Their photos all seem to be hiding the connector between the unit and the power tip. Is that standard or proprietary?

agurk2• 7 years ago

I assume it's proprietary (are there even standards for this kind of connector?).

The charger body has two fixed pins inside a circular collar with two tabs on it that the tip is placed over then rotated 45 degrees to lock.

lazyjeff• 7 years ago

I've got the same one, very pricey, but amazing to travel with compared to the giant macbook charger. It's only 60W but charges almost as fast as the 87W one for 15" macbooks. It's also really nice to be able to charge all my travel gadgets with one small charger, reducing the number of cables and chargers I have to carry.

I'm hoping that giant power bricks and those adapters that power via barrel plugs will disappear soon, as I find them to be unwieldy and dirt magnets. Computer monitors are most guilty of having some of the biggest power bricks, and I'd love to see them replaced with regular power cables (the ones that plug into desktop computers), or the monitor be powered over usb-c so any regular 100W usb-c adapter can power them.

cptskippy• 7 years ago

I'm hoping that giant power bricks and those adapters that power via barrel plugs will disappear soon

Laptop makers will never let that happen. My partner and I have had 4 USB-C laptops between us for work from Dell and Lenovo and the Dell 90w USB-C Dock PSU is the only one that could power all 4 of them. Each one complained or refused to boot if a different charger was used. The wattages for all of their supplied chargers were different.

wongarsu• 7 years ago

Computer monitors are most guilty of having some of the biggest power bricks, and I'd love to see them replaced with regular power cables

Dell Monitors have a single power cable (for example this P2418D [1]). Many other manufacturers ship giant power bricks because it allows them to make the screen thinner, and nobody sees the power brick under the table. It comes down to customer preference.

1: https://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products/large/210-AMUH-mvi...

JimDabell• 7 years ago

If you don't need 60W, I find that the CA4-Pro [0] is great – it has the travel adapter built in (so you don't have to carry attachments), it can act as a travel adapter for plugs for other appliances, and it's got three USB-A ports as well.

[0] https://www.card-tec.com/ca4-pro.php

jeremejevs• 7 years ago

Been using this for a year now, zero complaints!

hinkley• 7 years ago

US plug prongs can usually survive being bent and re-bent a number of times.

It's quite quite common for people to manage to bend the prongs on their vacuum cleaner dozens of times. Those pull more amps than almost anything else you plug in regularly, and they do just fine. Just go slow.

grecy• 7 years ago

I've been known to twist them with a pair of pliers into the shape required to plug into Australian sockets (like this: \ / ), then twist them back again.

Works fine if there is no earth pin.

atombender2• 7 years ago

I'd love to replace my MacBook Pro's power brick with a small wall charger.

But I'd want a long (10 feet) USB cable for those places where the outlet isn't near where I sit, and it doesn't look like that exists yet. All the ones I find on Amazon are 3A, and the MacBook Pro apparently needs 4.3A.

Anyone know of one?

gji• 7 years ago

I've been using this cable: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074W1G389/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_...

Haven't used it for 100W charging so I don't know if it stands up to the full rated 5A though.

jedberg3• 7 years ago

Way back in the 90s aerospace was replacing silicon with gallium arsenide to make more efficient and faster chips.

I’m glad to see it’s finally reaching a useful commercial application.

kbaker• 7 years ago

Note that this is Gallium Nitride (GaN,) not Gallium Arsenide (GaAs).

jedberg3• 7 years ago

Right but I believe it is a similar process built in the same R&D.

mixmastamyk2• 7 years ago

Had forgotten about that. I worked at the Rockwell science center at that time and went into their clean room once and had to put on a “bunny suit” to work on some computers inside it. They had a gallium chip product of some sort.

jedberg3• 7 years ago

My dad worked there too. :)

BurningFrog2• 7 years ago

Uninformed basic question: Would these charge my phone faster than the standard ones?

thebean11• 7 years ago

If your device accepts wattage (current? not totally sure about the terminology) higher than your current charger can provide, then yes. Basically, devices will charge at minimum(phone_rate, charger_rate).

Symbiote3• 7 years ago

wattage (current? not totally sure about the terminology)

Power is measured in watts.

Current is measured in amps.

Potential difference / voltage is measured in volts.

mastax• 7 years ago

Unfortunately, it depends. There are various standards that devices use to negotiate how much power to send over the USB cable. These chargers tend to support all the popular standards so they'll charge your phone at the fastest possible speed (unless you have a OnePlus or OPPO phone). If you have a midrange or higher Android phone, the included charger likely charges at max speed. If you have an iPhone with the 5W adapter, any of these adapters will charge faster than that.

BurningFrog2• 7 years ago

Thanks!

My Pixel 4 charges at 18W, and I'm probably good as is.

jdkee• 7 years ago

Are these chargers UL certified? I would be wary of using higher wattage chargers that have no been properly tested.

IndrekR4• 7 years ago

I think GaN transistors are a major thing in the next decade. Designed a GaN FET based small vehicle motor controller few years ago and similar size/speed/efficiency is currently not achievable with any other mass produced transistor type. There used to be only small players on the field (GaN Systems and EPC) but now Panasonic and Infineon have started offering their versions. Expecting the prices to go down and volumes go up.

martingordon• 7 years ago

I'm still waiting for a USB-C charger with more than two ports. Until then, I'm sticking with USB-A cables for everything except my MacBook Pro. For travel (where outlets are often at a premium), I use a four port USB-A charger on a nightstand to charge 2 iPhones and an Apple Watch (this one: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-Sams...).

sm4rk02• 7 years ago

Something like this?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html

baybal23• 7 years ago

A man in OEM manufacturing here. Not an electronics engineer professionally, but more or less involuntary having to deal with it.

First, I will say that GaN is not a make or break deal yet now. There are very high performance silicon switches that can produce equal gains for use cases in consumer electronic. In absolute comparison GaN is of course winning over Si, but use case wise, not so much.

GaN's main appeal is that you can retrofit it into simplest buck topologies, and get instant gains without any extra hassle.

GaN works best for low current, low voltage applications you normally see in consumer electronics. Everywhere else besides RF, it's not a clear improvement over silicon.

For long time GaN existed in a narrow niche of high frequency circuits, where people were OK with n channel depletion mode device with a lot of tricky sides. Its use as a power switch is relatively novel.

Enhancement mode devices are now on the market, but there is a catch. Because p-GaN is nowhere near as good as n-GaN, pure GaN enhancement mode devices are nowhere near as good as depletion mode devices. For this reason, some companies are trying a an approach with hybridised GaN-Si device to overcome that. Again, that is way more tricky and expensive than a single material device.

Now, back to chargers. It is easily possible to make more compact chargers without any exotic switches GaNfets included for as long as you put just a little bit more brains to engineering by going to better topologies.

What a lot of charger makers do these days to go along with the trend for smaller chargers is to turn up their switching frequencies as much as possible without melting the charger. They still do miscalculations about that, and you now have a lot of molten/burnt chargers as a result.

They are being misguided by the switching speed narrative, and completely miss that point that size of passive components has to do with way more things than just switching speed.

First, they can throw away the standalone rectification, gaining some efficiency in the process. Second, they should either go with some advanced flat transformer setup with appropriate resonant topology. Or they can throw away transformer altogether and use piezo transformer, or capacitive isolation. Third, a separate buck for last stage DC-DC can also be thrown away if you use multitap transformer and some electronic switching.

Transformers are by far biggest contributors to charger volume, and weight, and are bigger than capacitors in some cases. Throwing them away will provide way more space savings, along with other extraneous components.

So think twice about going the GaN route before considering things above first. Switching performance in a typical AC-DC is by far not the biggest of your problems.

mrfusion• 7 years ago

Does this breakthrough apply to other things like inverters?

WillPostForFood• 7 years ago

100w GaN coming from Sanho. They've done good products in the past, so very optimistic about this. Two USB A and two USB C ports.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-wo...

Ottolay2• 7 years ago

Good discussion of SiC vs GaN for EV applications:

https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-semicondu...

Animats• 7 years ago

Not seeing UL or CSA approval numbers on those.

That's important for switching power supplies, especially small ones. A switching power supply is always a few milliseconds from being a short circuit across the input. And FETs fail in the ON state. That's why those things are inherently fire risks and need protection circuitry. Really tiny ones make it worse; if they fail, there's not much space to dissipate heat before something blows and opens the circuit.

scottlamb2• 7 years ago

Ugh. I ordered the four-port one they mentioned without considering it might not have UL approval. I'll be looking for the symbol when it comes now. Thanks for bringing it up.

If the thing works as advertised and is safe, it's amazingly useful. It should quickly charge absolutely every device I have except my work 2015 MacBook Pro (that I'll likely replace soon), and up to for of them at once. (Eg laptop, phone, battery pack, and wireless headphones simultaneously.) Handle US or EU input. And be very compact.

bassman9000• 7 years ago

Aren't they also noisy AF? Wouldn't that affect power meters, or other measuring devices?

mherdeg• 7 years ago

Gosh that's odd; Ravpower has a blog post about UL certification's importance ( https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-certifi... ) but you're right, their RP-PC104 45W GaN USB-C wall charger and its manual don't list UL certification information ( https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-PC... , https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc104-45w-pd-wall-charg... ).

tpowell• 7 years ago

I’ve had the slim 45W RavPower one since June and it’s great. It’s almost startling how small it is. I much prefer it in the bag for coffee shop trips, etc. I use it with my 15” MBP and I haven’t seen any power issues with plenty of Chrome tabs and InDesign/Photoshop running. I usually have the extension cord on the 87W one at home—it’s so nice not to have to lug that whole assembly or look for the smaller attachment.

torstenvl• 7 years ago

I have the RAVPower 61W GaN USB-C charger for my backpack. No UL, but no noise and no issues. It's currently five stars on Amazon, for whatever that's worth. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TC53ZYD/

shaklee3• 7 years ago

It has a fakespot rating of F, for what it's worth:

https://www.fakespot.com/product/usb-c-wall-charger-ravpower...

tesseract• 7 years ago

That might be a Japanese-market device in the photo? I see a PSE mark from TUV SUD and a Japanese importer name. Having a WEEE bin but no CE mark seems odd though.

bradknowles• 7 years ago

Consider that this article is from January 30, 2019.

There have been a lot of improvements in this space in the past 11 months.

__jl__• 7 years ago

Can you point to newer products that reflect these improvements?

jamesrcole• 7 years ago

For anyone else not familiar with UL or CSA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_(safety_organization)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSA_Group

masonic2• 7 years ago

Counterfeit UL tags are commonly used on counterfeit products.

dwild• 7 years ago

Sure, having a UL tags doesn't guarantee that it has been UL certified, but missing one guarantee that it hasn't been UL certified.

scottlamb2• 7 years ago

My Anker PowerPort Atom PD 4 arrived today. It doesn't have a UL logo, but it does have CE and TUV ones. Are those equally rigorous? There are some other logos I don't recognize; picture:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CSYZMSLBHZqC8XaS6

I'm on the fence about keeping this thing. Besides the safety question, it's a little disappointing that charging a USB-C phone will drop a USB-C laptop's power straight from 100W to 50W. That's quite a step; I wish it could do something like 85W + 15W. When you use all four ports, the laptop only gets 38W, even if the others actually take almost no power. I think their claimed "intelligent power allocation" is overselling it a bit.

Looks like one of the reviews on Anker's product page (titled "Versatile, depending on what you plug in") says exactly what combinations are possible:

https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-4/A...

Tagbert2• 7 years ago

I wonder why they didn’t include the RAVPower 61w GaN charger. It is smaller than the “Slim” model and has folding prongs. https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall...

jbverschoor• 7 years ago

N mention of the innergie 60c Which is 60w, changeable us/EU/uk

dclaw• 7 years ago

I love how no one is talking about how this article is from January of this year... Anker has a newer version that is even smaller now. It may only be 18W and rated for phones, but it matches the size of the original 5W Apple charger. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W

Camillo2• 7 years ago

Ok, but they're USB-C, meaning there is an 80% chance they implement the spec incorrectly (resulting in weird issues with random devices), and a 10% chance that they are straight up unsafe. Benson is no longer updating his list AFAIK, but that's not because people have learned to do USB-C correctly; they haven't, e.g. [0]

[0] https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-...

lhl• 7 years ago

One of my minor goals for 2020 is to switch all the gear I carry around to being USB-C PD. I've been doing some research on the subject, so just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in (some of this stuff mentioned in other comments).

There's a pretty good site, https://www.chargerlab.com/ (see also: https://twitter.com/chargerlab ) that's dedicated to reviewing charging peripherals.

I started off the year with an Innergie 60C, which has worked great for everything I've thrown at it and is tiny (55mL volume, 88g, 60W USB-C PD). It was on-sale recently, but even at full price has been worth it for me. (Although the newer RavPower PD Pioneer 61W is a good alternative that's almost as small and 1/3 the price.)

I'm looking forward to adding the upcoming Sanho HyperJuice 100W charger (about twice the size, but a bunch more ports) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-wo...

Instead of the Anker PD1 18W, for a small charger, I use the Anker PIQ 30W - it's very slim, which actually makes it much easier to carry around. Also, the IMO folding plugs (and extra juice) are definitely worth the extra volume.

Recently, for my Mavic Pro 2, I just got a cheap Cablcc USB-C to Plug Receptacle Charger cable and a RCGEEK car charger that seems to work well as a nice 2-in-1 (it only saves a tiny bit of volume and weight over the wall charging but it also provides car charging).

Also, although I'm unsure of how often I'll need it, I got a 100Wh Zendure Super Tank power bank (which provides USB-C PD 100W charging), since it was discounted heavily for Black Friday (it was only $100 on sale vs $200+ for other similar options).

Also, I travel internationally a lot, and the MOGICS Donut has been my go-to combination power strip and adapter - it's the best/most compact device I've found (and has 2 USB-A chargers built in to handly legacy devices). https://www.mogics.com/3824-2

dspillett3• 7 years ago

I'm similarly moving to USB-C-PD where I can when things need replacing or otherwise updating.

One thing to watch for with decices that use the same port for in and out though:

1. Portable charger runs out of juice before completely charging running laptop.

2. Shortly thereafter laptop notices an empty battery connected.

3. Laptop dutifully starts sending power the other way to recharge the battery...

notacoward2• 7 years ago

I have a bunch of USB-C devices - two laptops, a Switch, a phone, and a pair of headphones. The only one that I regularly charge from a USB-C PD port is the larger laptop. The rest do just fine with USB-A to USB-C cables from a four-port (one PD plus three USB-A) adapter. Occasionally I'll pull out my Atom and corresponding cable to charge another one of those devices more quickly, but that's actually pretty rare and I never need more PD ports than that. Never, and I travel more than most. I wish more people knew that A-to-C cables are a totally sufficient, cheaper, and more compact alternative for many devices.

dspillett3• 7 years ago

Of course, it depends how much juice your A-ports can provide and how fussy you are about things charging as fast as they can. If most of your A ports provide no more than 1-or-2 amps, maybe 3, at 5V then most (all?) devices that charge via USB-C will charge slower than they could. That won't realistically matter at all for refreshing a phone overnight, or even a chunky laptop, but it'll still matters to some.

paggle3• 7 years ago

If I built a new house today I’d wire 12 volts DC in addition to 110VAC. Safe for kids and fewer unsightly wall warts.

m0xte2• 7 years ago

Also impractical due to I^2R losses.

paggle3• 7 years ago

Not if you has an in-wall supply in each room.

Gibbon1• 7 years ago

Was recently thinking that single pair power over Ethernet could probably handle 90% of the use case for residential power. 50W is enough for a LED/Fluorescent lighting, power a laptop, lighting, charge your phone.

sgt101• 7 years ago

My levono comes with a 65w charger that's not much bigger than the 45 w charger shown here... What's the big deal?

caseyf7• 7 years ago

This is an area we needed Jony Ive to dedicate some time to improving. An Apple Pro charger for road warriors designed by Jony would be an awesome parting gift to the world.

throwaway9d0291• 7 years ago

Since people are throwing out chargers they like, here's my current favourite: https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-charg...

It's fantastic for travel. It can charge my laptop (USB-C), Apple Watch + iPhone (USB-A) and power bank (USB-C) all at the same time. It also has a detachable AC cable so you can swap it before you leave instead of carrying an international plug adapter.

Ottolay2• 7 years ago

There are PC power supplies with Ga-N transistors these days, but seems they are so far used only for the very top end.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu...

Havoc• 7 years ago

Is this a mains frequency thing?

I saw the GaN stuff on US Amazon but cost and specs seemed worse than the uk ones.

eg the uk Anker 60W ones cost less look about the same size can do 30W PD and has another 5 ports too

I just don’t see the value proposition of these GaN ones

The next generation of wall chargers

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