Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/2/20895128/microsoft-surface-phone-foldable-screen-features-specs-price-release-date

by aminecodes • 7 years ago

225 176 7 years ago

theverge.com

yRetsyM• 7 years ago

"Partnering with Google" - Be very interesting to see what that partnership entails.

aminecodes3• 7 years ago

It seems it can run Android apps.

styx31• 7 years ago

It seems it runs on android (with a windows theme).

DanCarvajal• 7 years ago

They're trying to head off another YouTube on WindowsPhone fight.

Dirlewanger• 7 years ago

I mean, Microsoft has always had a vested interest in Android's success, given that they are paid for every Android device sold because of software patents.

rbanffy• 7 years ago

How many years after Apple's Knowledge Navigator?

recursive• 7 years ago

32 years after Knowledge Navigator. 0 years after I first heard of it.

whywhywhywhy• 7 years ago

Ideas mean nothing if you don't make them real

bhauer6• 7 years ago

I'm going to pick one up regardless, but if they can bring Windows 10 X to this device, and provide a docking experience that expands to approximate a full PC, the result would be fantastic.

aminecodes3• 7 years ago

They already said it runs on Android, whith what looks like a heavy Microsoft like skin on top.

bhauer6• 7 years ago

Indeed they did, but this is a device still in development, to be released late 2020. I would not be surprised if the Windows 10 X team is working to make it at least possible to run 10 X on the smaller device. I'd much prefer 10 X with an Android subsystem. But like I said, I'll pick one up regardless.

matteopey• 7 years ago

The only thing they said is that they "are building upon Android". I think it could both means that they are using Android as an OS or that they built some kind of WSL-like subsystem. The latter scenario is more interesting because it would open up the possibility to run UWP apps that can also run on Windows 10 X, both leveraging the two screens.

mc322• 7 years ago

It looks nice in theory. I’d like to see it also support some version of win10. I might get one regardless, but if it ran win10, it’d be a slam dunk.

cptskippy3• 7 years ago

Google introduced project Treble in Android O and P to allow Android to work against a HAL to basically decouple the underlying Linux Kernel and drivers from the over arching Android Framework.

There was speculation that this would enable Google to swap out the Linux Kernel for Fuschia when it becomes available.

The Windows NT Kernel has had a HAL and the ability to do this since it's inception in the 90s. Microsoft has been toying around with WSL on the desktop, what are the chances that they just beat Google to the punch and are running Android on the Windows Kernel?

How crazy would it be if WSL was just a cover for getting Android running ontop the Windows Kernel?

numbsafari• 7 years ago

Good luck. It's not shipping until "Holiday 2020"... if ever.

Announcing products like this should be reported on as an embarrassment for the companies that do it.

chenzhekl• 7 years ago

I guess Microsoft just wants to give developers enough time to adapt their applications to this new platform.

chooseaname2• 7 years ago

This is still my holy grail of computing device. I want a portable device (phone) that gives me a phone style interface when portable, but when docked, a desktop-like experience. Yes, there have been efforts, but I want this to be mainstream and well thought out.

ijidak• 7 years ago

Agree! Will somebody please make this!

I want to simply have a keyboard and screen that "looks like a laptop" but the brains is actually in the phone in my pocket!

And then when I have a proper dock, I just get a larger monitor(s) and larger desktop keyboard.

But the brains are still in the phone!

The key benefit (of the dumb laptop, especially) is I still want a laptop on the go, but..

1. Why manage data flow across two separate devices. My phone becomes truth, always.

2. My phone already has always-on data. Why worry about data for two devices. (To 4/5-g subscriptions, etc.) Searching for wi-fi.

3. Better power consumption for my "dumb laptop" device. (Less processing power in the laptop, hopefully space for a bigger battery)

I would buy this in a heartbeat!

tga• 7 years ago

Samsung DeX is currently the most popular (only?) implementation of that, and it's decent in my opinion -- especially if what you really need is a desktop-sized browser.

https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/apps/samsung-dex/

screye• 7 years ago

If this releases now, I will buy it instantly. That thing is going in my pocket.

knolan• 7 years ago

Remember the Courier?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier

mc322• 7 years ago

I remember reading something like:

Exec1: does it connect to Exchange?

Exec2: no.

Exec1: nixed!

Exec2 should have said: it will in the future!

SketchySeaBeast• 7 years ago

Given how badly they flubbed their entries into smartphones, I'm kind of glad they are trying again in this new form-factor. Given that it's relying on Android, it should have more staying power than before (and an app store that isn't awful).

WorldMaker7• 7 years ago

Given it's relying on Android now and doesn't seem to have (based on this announcement) any compelling reason to exist long term in the ugly, over-crowded OEM market of Android marketing, it's a gimmick and shouldn't have any staying power at all.

rvz• 7 years ago

I'm not sure if everyone forgot a day ago, but if Microsoft had just removed the offline account setting on Windows 10, what could be the likelihood that they could just enforce it in the Surface Line up, even including the Android products?

Nice looking Surface lineup and hardware nevertheless, but after Microsoft removing that offline setting, I think that was a big turn off and a no deal from me for now, unless they reverse that atrocious decision to using online accounts only.

MikusR• 7 years ago

They did not remove it.

tvanantwerp• 7 years ago

You can still have offline accounts, but they do make it a real pain to figure out how to do it during Windows setup. I have to take PCs offline entirely to get the option now. While Microsoft is doing a lot of be more developer friendly (e.g., I love VS Code), Windows just gets more and more user hostile.

atjamielittle• 7 years ago

It took almost 30 years since the kernel was released, but Microsoft is officially releasing something with a Linux based operating system. Pretty wild to think about.

Barrin92• 7 years ago

it's interesting how in the last few years the Microsoft and Linux/Android ecosystems seem to developer side-by-side.

Personally I've replaced my last macbook with the surface and my iphone with an android phone, use mostly linux or windows with WSL these days and I see less and less apple products in particular among developers where the windows/linux combo seems to become more prevalent, at least anecdotally.

snuxoll• 7 years ago

There’s the SONIC network stuff too. Though that’s not a consumer product.

pjmlp3• 7 years ago

From their original stance against FOSS, yes pretty wild.

From UNIX point of view, not so much, given that they were one of the first licensees for PC hardware with Xenix.

com2kid2• 7 years ago

They've had Linux Azure offerings for quite a few years, and famously contributed a fair bit of code to the Linux kernel to make some of that possible.

They also released those Nokia branded Android devices.

It is not like MS has been doing consumer hardware releases for that long or anything!

It'll be interesting to see the support, IMHO one thing that keeps people (software devs and consumers) from buying into a new Android OEM that is selling an "Ecosystem" (e.g. Samsung Note) is the fear of a product line being dropped.

WorldMaker7• 7 years ago

WSL2 is already shipping in Beta form in Windows Insider builds and includes a full Linux kernel.

GordonS5• 7 years ago

It almost feels like Microsoft is conceding the server market, recognising that the ride of cloud computing has been a real boon for Linux - they're putting all the tools in their desktop product to make sure engineers can work easily with Linux, without actually needing Linux to do it.

EnderMB3• 7 years ago

I really hope that we see a single-screen Surface phone in the future.

IMO, Microsoft have done a fantastic job with the Surface Book. If they could replicate that high-end build quality while providing a solid feature set and a clean Android build, I can't see it not selling well. Throw a headphone jack in, and I'd wait in line for it!

The dual screen is interesting, but I don't see its use just yet.

pdpi• 7 years ago

Speaking of the Surface Book, my aging MacBook needs replacing, and I was interested in seeing a Surface Book 3 release as an alternative. Sad it didn't materialise.

bhauer6• 7 years ago

The Surface Laptop 3 looks very compelling though, especially with the Ryzen option.

mattferderer2• 7 years ago

I see a lot of value with this phone prototype over the laptop version.

It gives a better typing experience than a phone currently does & offers unique controls for apps on the 2nd screen.

Whereas with the laptop version I assume people will be missing their keyboard typing experience or complaining about having to carry around a bluetooth keyboard. I still hope they improve their concept of docking an Android phone & using it as a laptop replacement with a keyboard, mouse & monitor.

Hopefully it makes people watch videos in landscape again & quit recording in portrait mode. That alone would be a win!

- Edit - I just read a better article explaining their keyboard concept for the laptop version. That seems like a slightly better experience than I was imagining. Hopefully it's harder to lose than their pen.

WorldMaker7• 7 years ago

Why would they make a single-screen phone for Android when the market is already saturated with them? (It's silly enough for them to make a dual screen phone for Android when all the existing OEMs are already trying to hype future foldables or multi-screen beasts.)

EnderMB3• 7 years ago

I wouldn't call the high-end Android market saturated. There are a number of players, but it's a market of compromises. If you want a stock Android experience, you go away from Samsung. If you want a headphone jack, you go away from Google and OnePlus, etc.

The Surface range is good because it packs so much functionality into a nicely designed package. The same design principles, with a full feature set, would sell like wild-fire, and would put a lot of other phone manufacturers on notice.

pdimitar2• 7 years ago

Not buying unless it runs [fixed and improved] Windows 10 mobile. I'm still dreaming of a Lumia 950 XL with a good app store...

sequence73• 7 years ago

It runs Android looks like with the Microsoft Launcher

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....

VikingCoder• 7 years ago

Then you're not buying. "It runs Android and will release holiday 2020" Literally the first line in the article.

pdimitar2• 7 years ago

Sure. Just expressing opinion.

IMO it was a mistake to give up on the Windows 10 mobile OS but it's also true that MS has made too many mistakes for it to ever take off at the point where Android and iOS have been developed for at least 7 years already.

ThrowawayR22• 7 years ago

Amen to this; I want another Windows Phone. If I'd wanted an Android phone, there are plenty of options already.

Microsoft would've done better by making a x86 Surface Go running full-sized Windows that happened to make phone calls. There were a few models of Android tablets that could make phone calls, so it's not as if it were a outrageous idea.

fortran772• 7 years ago

I'm so glad Microsoft is trying again in the Phone space. I wish Amazon would try again, too. It's nice to have choices.

ocdtrekkie• 7 years ago

It's an Android, so no new choice here, sadly. Google may even be insisting on Google Search as default, given the search bar's prominent visibility in Microsoft's promo material with the Google Search logo.

scarface743• 7 years ago

According to a consent decree with the EU, they can’t insist on it there. They could in the US I guess.

scarface743• 7 years ago

No. Microsoft is much better at handling an ecosystem than Amazon. As far as I can tell, MS is using standard Android with Google Play Services(?) Amazon was trying to create its own ecosystem.

fortran772• 7 years ago

Amazon has a nice suite of services. A phone that has Music, Books, Shopping, Cloud Storage for Photos, and a few key apps (Uber, Lyft, popular games) but somewhat constrained otherwise, would be great for Seniors or people who don't need a high-performance general-purpose computer in their pocket.

catchmeifyoucan• 7 years ago

Agreed. Amazon is really experimenting recently with new form factors. It could be really exciting if there was a non-flagship phone from them in the future. What they should double down on is also making the Alexa experience the best.

bcheung2• 7 years ago

Agreed. There is too little competition in this space. Having more choice would mean there wouldn't be the whole Google Services / Huawei fiasco. Apple and Google are effectively blocking competition in the marketplace.

nemothekid• 7 years ago

1. Is Windows Mobile Dead?

2. Does anyone remember the name of a similar Microsoft notebook that was teased 5-10 years ago? It was a foldable notebook and notetaking device kind of like Remarkable. I wonder if this is the spiritual child of that.

bhauer6• 7 years ago

1. Yes.

2. You're probably thinking about the Courier. You'll see more about that in the thread about Surface Neo, which is the modern take on Courier.

FreakyT• 7 years ago

As for 2, you're thinking of the Courier concept, which got killed in favor of Windows 8: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-inside-story-of-how-microsoft-...

WorldMaker7• 7 years ago

Re: 1: The last official OS builds for Windows Phone expire from security support next month (November 2019). Microsoft has been telling owners to move to iOS or (especially) Android for months now. (It's why I've got an iPhone again in my pocket now after years of Windows Phones. Sigh.)

belltaco4• 7 years ago

Video of announcement.

https://youtu.be/dmaioTs0NH8?t=5111

The bigger dual screen device is the Surface Neo.

bhauer6• 7 years ago

Correction: The bigger device is Surface Neo (running Windows 10 X), the smaller device is Surface Duo (running Android).

belltaco4• 7 years ago

Corrected, thx.

joombaga2• 7 years ago

The Surface Duo features two 5.6-inch displays that can rotate 360 degrees, allowing it to be fully unfolded as a miniature unfold to 8.3-inch tablet.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, it seems like you wouldn't ever need more than 270 degrees.

belltaco4• 7 years ago

Needs 360 degrees to get to this.

https://andro4all.com/files/2019/10/Microsoft-Surface-Duo.jp...

From this:

https://livecenterimages.azureedge.net/livecenter-images/lci...

mattferderer2• 7 years ago

Seems like a nice way to protect the screen. I wonder how hard it would be to place a small tiny notification screen on the 2nd image. I guess that would make 3 screens then. I recall some similar prototypes that used a small e-ink screen for notifications & a clock.

joombaga2• 7 years ago

Ah okay thanks. I didn't realize you could close it with the screen inside.

marban• 7 years ago

This thing looks like a 1983 Multi Screen Game & Watch.

whalesalad2• 7 years ago

Ah, looks like Microsoft finally got around to producing some more gimmicks.

The catastrophe that is the Samsung folding phone didn’t send a strong enough message to the industry I guess.

dao-2• 7 years ago

The MS device is a foldable phone with two screens, not a foldable screen. Samsung's (initial?) failure is irrelevant here.

whalesalad2• 7 years ago

It won't sell. It's a gimmick.

pier252• 7 years ago

Personally I don't see the attractive in dual screen devices unless we reach Westworld-like devices that are super thin and can go from phone to large tablet that can potentially replace a laptop.

Otherwise it's just a thick phone that converts to 2 phones...

In case anyone hasn't seen Westworld: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3dD7jOLaes

eduren2• 7 years ago

Agree. I love the design behind the Westworld folding tablets. I don't see myself jumping aboard the train until we get at least a little bit closer to that form factor.

subjectsigma• 7 years ago

There's an interesting subtlety in Westworld devices that I didn't notice until now, though - they're insanely durable. Dust, blood, hard impacts, slamming the device closed, etc don't seem to damage or impede them at all which simply wouldn't be true of real devices. I think foldable devices are inherently more fragile than smartphones which are already too fragile IMO and thus they'll never work, but few people seem to care about that right now.

BOBOTWINSTON• 7 years ago

I'm excited for two reasons.

I find the ability to completely "close" my phone really appealing. It feels easier to ignore it, and the screens feel more protected to me.

I can also only describe the second benefit as "its like two monitors". I can watch TV on one and respond to messages/browse on another. I use a Note8+ already, so big screens for watching crap are already my preference though.

pier252• 7 years ago

Eh I'm not too interested in multitasking on my phone. Even on my 12.9 iPad Pro multitasking is mediocre. If I want to be productive I simply go to a laptop or desktop.

RandomBacon• 7 years ago

As long as there is enough clearance between the two screens to add a temper glass screen protector to each.

Every phone I've had with a case, grit collects betweeen the case and the back of the phone and scratches the phone up. I can imagine the same thing happening between the two screens if folded in my pocket.

Konnstann• 7 years ago

Only problem is I like messaging in portrait mode, but watching things in landscape. Kind of kills the benefit for me.

GordonS5• 7 years ago

Clamshell phones let you close your phone completely, and have been around for a long time. Actually, are they still a thing?

canada_dry• 7 years ago

IMHO, the hinged - but separate - displays are a much better idea than the Samsung foldable display. At least for now.

I don't think the reliability of a truly foldable display (e.g. Samsung's Galaxy Fold) will be very good until another couple versions of generational improvements.

jayd16• 7 years ago

Maybe they should go with two glass panels and the foldable display over the hinge. If you have a setting to disable the delicate hinge display when it inevitably breaks it gracefully downgrades to this Duo experience.

aylmao• 7 years ago

+1. IMO the move is to focus on this type of devices and then move to foldable screens if/when both the technology matures, and there is solid demand for this form factor.

The foldable display seems cool, but also seems to be, IMO, an expensive solution looking for something we don't know to be a problem yet. The problem is having no screen at the hinge. How big is this problem though? In theory it's nice but people don't even have foldable devices in these form factors yet. For all we know, most people might not mind the dual-screen approach, just like a lot of people have not minded the notch or other shortcomings of previous and current devices.

danielovichdk• 7 years ago

I miss Windows Phone everyday.

The best designed UI imo, and a great alternative to Ios and android.

chooseaname2• 7 years ago

I wasn't a fan of the UI, but I can still appreciate the speed and fluidity of the phones I saw my friends using. We certainly need more than just iOS and Android in the market. But, I guess I'm wrong as the market spoke...

WorldMaker7• 7 years ago

It wasn't even "the market" that spoke so much as US telecom companies. ("Vote with your wallet just means the rich and the mega-corporations have more votes.") Windows Phone had a good enough market share in Europe and Asia to remain a viable and competitive third place contender for a long time. It was the US where Windows Phone got locked out of the market duopoly by bad deals with AT&T and Verizon, and indications existed that all of the US telecoms were much happier with a duopoly than training/sales/marketing anything beyond that (whether or not that was an anti-competitive trust is left for your own imagination, it's not like the US has strong anti-trust teeth right now).

partiallypro• 7 years ago

I think the animations are what I miss the most, especially the WP7 animations. None of the others look remotely as nice.

GordonS5• 7 years ago

I really liked the Windows Phone UI too - but christ it was buggy! In true old-school Windows fashion, it frequently crashed and required a reboot.

When Windows Phone died and I switched to Android, the UI didn't feel as intuitive as the Windows one did. And of course it doesn't help that Google change the UI, in particular the settings, all.the.time.

saulrh• 7 years ago

I've been missing my Nexus 7 since it finished dying and have been wishing for a device with this form factor for years... but with a heavily-skinned custom android distro I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole. MS isn't awful about release cadence and bugfix latency, certainly not as bad as cell network providers or traditional phone OEMs, but there's a reason I run stock android on Droid/Nexus/Pixel devices. Maybe if I can install a stock android ROM on the thing.

(Disclaimer: work at Google, totally unrelated product, not the opinion of my employer, etc.)

AdmiralAsshat• 7 years ago

All this time my old Nintendo DS Lite had been gathering dust in the drawer because I thought it was strictly for games; now I realize its true calling is to be a phone!

seshagiric• 7 years ago

Ok this may be first time when Microsoft phone announcements generate more hype than iPhone

swiley• 7 years ago

Another android phone.

These are all just wrappers around the latest qualcomm snapdragon with whatever twist the hardware manufacture wants to add. Basic functionality in all of them will be badly broken and there's more or less nothing you can do to fix it.

At least the iphone ships with an ssh client and scripting environment now. (not that I'm an iphone fan, it has it's own problems.)

com2kid2• 7 years ago

Basic functionality in all of them will be badly broken and there's more or less nothing you can do to fix it.

I disagree.

The performance and battery life differences between different phones running the same chipset is insane.

Read through https://www.anandtech.com/show/14716/the-black-shark-2-revie...

For some benchmarks, the top phones are 50% faster! Storage benchmarks (not shown in that particular review) can be even more dramatic. Battery life differences can be huge (multiple hours) at the same capacity.

Each manufacturer customizes the heck out of the kernel, and also attached firmware. LTE speeds can vary dramatically with "the same antennas". Same for WiFi speeds.

The current Android phone I am using works great. It is surprisingly fluid and rather nice to use, though I'd argue Windows Phone 7 was still nicer (or at least more fun) to use, that ship has long since sailed.

H1Supreme• 7 years ago

At least the iphone ships with an ssh client

I use the Termux app to SSH on my Android phone all the time.

mrpippy• 7 years ago

It's odd that they would announce it's powered by a Snapdragon 855--a chip which is already a year old, and will be two years old by the time this device actually launches. Hopefully they'll upgrade that before launch.

h4waii• 7 years ago

A high-end SoC from 1 year or 2 years ago is hardly the constraint on modern devices.

I doubt the average person can even tell the difference from a 660, to a 835, or an 855, given all the rest of the components (mainly storage) are the same.

mwsfc• 7 years ago

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my pocket and be comfortable navigating single handedly . Adding dual screen & doubling the device thickness is not the solution I am looking for.

*Netbooks were low-powered mobile devices (basically mini laptops) that launched in 2007 and basically disappeared (as a viable market category) after the iPad and its kind were launched in 2010.

EDIT added "form factor" for clarification

awill• 7 years ago

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook era

Except these will be >$1000 netbooks.....

hn_throwaway_99• 7 years ago

Netbooks were low-powered mobile devices (basically mini laptops) that launched in 2007 and basically disappeared (as a viable market category) after the iPad and its kind were launched in 2010.

Chromebooks are very much alive and well.

jetrink• 7 years ago

You're not wrong, by most definitions of netbook, but I think the parent commenter makes a very good point if you look at them in terms of their form factor. Netbooks of that era were these weird little machines with 8.9" screens and 70% scale keyboards. I remember carrying mine in a coat pocket. It was really exciting at the time to see Windows XP running on something like that. In the end, it was a bad compromise and those have disappeared. The netbooks of today are, for the most part, full size laptops.

pjmlp3• 7 years ago

Chromebooks are an US specific phenomenon, hardly seen anywhere else in the world.

r00fus4• 7 years ago

Kids can't even play Minecraft on our family chromebook without essentially running a different OS.

Chromebooks aren't a panacea.

maxwell• 7 years ago

Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my pocket and be comfortable navigating single handedly . Adding dual screen & doubling the device thickness is not the solution I am looking for.

I'm still waiting for a phone on which I can comfortably edit, build, and deploy code.

sp332• 7 years ago

It shouldn't double the device thickness. You can have normal cellphone thickness on one side and just enough for a display on the other.

pweezy• 7 years ago

I suspect the main reason this type of device tends to be more symmetrical in thickness is to carry an additional battery, needed to power the second display without shortening the total battery life of the device.

sixstringtheory3• 7 years ago

I think the future is less/no screen. Typing on these folding phones seems like a worse experience. Typing at all isn't really natural, and neither is staring at planar, glowing glass.

I think the future is conversational computing. I don't own an Alexa/HomePod/etc (yet... maybe some open source on prem thing at some point), but I think that's where the puck is moving. It's just that today their capabilities are somewhere around a rotary phone vs. an iPhone. Better than a telegraph (which I guess in this analogy is _typing_ your words into a document) but still very rudimentary. All it needs is time and effort.

Similar to HomePods, we have AirPods and their equivalents. The phone is just a conduit through which can pass the data necessary for the OS to talk with you, to do what you need.

spdionis• 7 years ago

Except when you can't reply to a message on your phone cause you don't want people around you to hear that.

Let's be real, "conversational computing" may work in movies, but in reality you don't want people in the office or on the street hearing your interactions with your phone.

untog2• 7 years ago

Strongly disagree with this. As someone who does own a number of Google Home devices at home and uses Siri on my phone... voice is a terrible interface.

For one, there is zero discoverability. I can ask Google today's weather. I can ask tomorrow's weather. I cannot ask yesterday's weather. Leaving aside why that would be (I would find it useful to know that it's X degrees hotter/cooler than yesterday) there's no way for me to know that without asking. It's the audio equivalent of fumbling around on a keyboard in a pitch black room. Just imagine placing a food order. It's going to have to read a menu to you and you're going to have to remember it all. No amount of tech improvement is going to change that fundamental fact.

Secondly, you can't multi-task. Or have more than one person using it simultaneously. Right now my wife and I might be looking at our phones at the same time, perhaps looking stuff up, maybe tapping out an e-mail. We'd have to go to separate rooms to do that.

But if I want to know today's weather or play a song, it works fine. As long as it recognises my voice correctly and there isn't too much background noise.

gambiting• 7 years ago

What are you going to watch your porn on without a screen?

Also, talking to any of those assistants is literally the worst imaginable mode of interaction with a computer, period. Touchscreens in cars are in close second place.

jhoechtl• 7 years ago

I comute every day early in the morning by train. I would shoot the ones who start interacting with their devices per voice.

cstross• 7 years ago

Except the netbook form-factor has seen an unexpected revival in the past two years, with machines from GPD and One Netbook (and other Chinese manufacturers) showing up (although they're metal unibody machines, some of them ultrabook spec rather than netbook, and vastly more powerful and useful than their 2007-11 predecessors). E.g. One Netbook just announced the One Mix 3 Pro, with a quad-core Comet Lake i5, 16Gb RAM/512Gb SSD:

https://liliputing.com/2019/09/one-mix-3-pro-is-the-first-mi...

These aren't cheap (like the original netbooks), but they're pitched against the low end of the ultrabook market, for folks who need a better keyboard/typing experience than a Surface Go.

(Disclaimer: I own a One Mix 3S, predecessor to this new version and I rate it quite highly, except for support from the manufacturer which is patchy at best.)

gonehome2• 7 years ago

I think the next computing platform gamble is AR.

Facebook is working on building out the tech via VR, but with an eye to AR and generally out in the open.

Apple is building out the underlying software support while working on some AR hardware in secret.

Microsoft has their enterprise hardware, but not sure what they're thinking about otherwise.

Using the phone as a computing device that powers a visual digital AR layer for the real world where you can interact with AR overlays either with thoughts (Neuralink?) or more likely basic gestures (like Oculus' camera tracking, or armbands) would be another revolutionary shift in platform UX and be the big shift away from phone screens.

I'm not sure how possible this hardware currently is or how soon this transition could happen, but people seem to be laying the ground work. Michael Abrash wrote an old blog posts about a couple of reasons why this is hard (primarily drawing black in AR), but he's been at Oculus a while now and I'd be curious how his thoughts have changed.

These foldable phones strike me as a dead end nobody wants.

Namrog84• 7 years ago

"Microsoft has their enterprise hardware, but not sure what they're thinking about otherwise."

Do you consider the hololens exclusively enterprise?

hrktb2• 7 years ago

This device’s whole point would be outside of the “we” point of view.

In general “we” don’t need a revolution of the current form factor. A sizeable portion of users have stopped upgrading and wait for their current phone to be dead, some are already clamoring for less, going back to iPhoneSE like phones.

I think the duo is not targeting the “we”, but way more specific user niches who have non generic goals and are not happy with even the bigger phones we have now. These people could be enough to float a product line, even if it doesn’t fish the other 90% of the users and their dogs.

I’d compare it to the Surface Studio, which was never expected to be a general public device as well.

GordonS5• 7 years ago

OK, but what is that niche?

I'm not happy with today's massive phones, but that doesn't mean I want a massive phone that can fold in half!

I just want a non-slippy phone that fits in my hand and pocket, and has a high-res screen. Truely, I don't understand the trend for slippy phones that keep getting bigger and bigger :/

blackoil• 7 years ago

In developing countries, phone is the only computing device most people have and is the primary consumption device taking over TV. So a bigger screen will definitely be valued.

megaremote• 7 years ago

around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary.

I hate people who talk like this, as if there is something magical that people should be working on.

cltsang• 7 years ago

Hate is a strong word.

But I agree that innovation is often incremental efforts of exploration and convergence, like how we got to where we are in VR today. Magical phenomenal change like iPhone is rather exceptional.

legohead• 7 years ago

this looks way better than the Samsung Fold. if you haven't yet, watch a durability video on the Fold. the display is plastic and will get scratched from basically anything (even your fingernail). Microsoft's version has glass. also nice that it's using Android.

but...how will I mount it in the car for GPS?

belltaco4• 7 years ago

but...how will I mount it in the car for GPS?

Just fold it?

https://andro4all.com/files/2019/10/Microsoft-Surface-Duo.jp...

I would get a bigger mount for the opened device though, maps are always nicer on bigger screens since you can see more.

dagaci• 7 years ago

I like the idea of dual screen on the phone, its quite natural to browse two related pages at the same time and will improve that kind of experience. Will it have pen support?

However i'm very dubious of what the dual screen experience will be like bolted on top of Windows (NEO) and Android (DUO).

Somehow in my humble opinion Apple have been able to run rings around Google and Microsoft when it come's to pure UX in mobile tech and given the past history i fully expect that true in the future.

This is where i expect DUO will stumble, in the same way that Samsung fails with its extensions and bolt on's.

jbigelow76• 7 years ago

I like how on the Duo and larger Neo Microsoft just embraced the fact that foldable OLED isn't ready for prime time yet and instead tried to engineer the seam with as much aesthetic and engineering quality possible.

r00fus4• 7 years ago

It is definitely the right approach to the question "how do you engineer a folding display?".

The bigger question is "what do you need a folding display for?"...

baby• 7 years ago

I think this is the wrong approach to think about. Nobody needs a folding display.

What people need are actually two contradictory (until now) goals: compactness and large screen size. Folding is one solution to solve this contradiction.

Causality1• 7 years ago

It's ridiculous that there's a market for that monstrosity but I can't get a normal phone with a flagship SoC and a 16:10 display.

ropiwqefjnpoa• 7 years ago

I was excited for moment thinking they were bringing back the Windows Phone OS as well, bummer...

cryptozeus• 7 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmaioTs0NH8 @ mark 1:26:00

novok• 7 years ago

What I don't understand is why the devices have huge screen bezels?

acd• 7 years ago

Microsoft has always been very good at making hardware! It would be interesting with oled/lcd on one side and eink on the other side.

m0zg• 7 years ago

This is often said by people who have never owned their hardware. I bought a Surface Book when it first came out. I disagree. It looks good on the photos if you've never used it, but it was kind of flimsy and buggy AF. I took it back for a refund 3 days after purchasing it. And it's a flagship device. I can only imagine what happens at the lower end of the product range.

xhubin• 7 years ago

I have used the first Surface Laptop since the release of it and I can say I have been very happy with it and never had any problem whatsoever.

Marsymars• 7 years ago

And it's a flagship device. I can only imagine what happens at the lower end of the product range.

I wouldn't really expect any difference. It's not like Apple's lower end products are buggier than their higher end ones.

nesky• 7 years ago

Is the split screen device market a new upcoming segment or is it supposed to be replacing an existing one? I've never thought that I need two iPhones or two iPads connected to one another in a book like fashion like this. Who's the market demographic for this type of product?

erikpukinskis• 7 years ago

The only way it makes sense to me is this:

Apple designed the iPhone to be a pocketable one-handed companion device to a real computer.

People started using them as their only computer. The changed the design parameters enough that it made sense to offer a less pocketable device with a much larger screen.

The thesis is: maybe that market can be segmented even further, by adding an even less pocketable segment with even more screen space.

bcheung2• 7 years ago

I understand why they went with Android but I'm disappointed they didn't go with .NET. I've avoided iOS and Android development because I'm not a fan of those development environments. I would actually develop mobile apps if it was .NET.

vatashian• 7 years ago

Give Xamarin a go then. All the benefits of .NET on Mobile especially now that Forms is mature and .NET standard is more prevalent.

joewee• 7 years ago

I wonder if they will stop security patches after three years ?

Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

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