Nasa to Open International Space Station to Tourists

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48560874

by bem94 • 7 years ago

249 129 7 years ago

bbc.co.uk

jorge-d• 7 years ago

Given that ISS belongs to multiple countries (US / Russia / Japan / Canada / UE), is NASA allowed to sell tickets to travel there and get keep the benefits of the sell for itself ?

lukeqsee• 7 years ago

The article mentioned that Russia has already done so, so I would say yes.

It also appears the vast majority of the expense (99%) will be in the ferrying fees paid to SpaceX or Boeing.

rory096• 7 years ago

Each module is owned by its respective country.

pkaye3• 7 years ago

So Canadians get strapped on for a ride on the Canadarm2? /s

rtkwe• 7 years ago

NASA I believe gets a certain number of slots and will be giving up an astronaut slot for each of these tourist flights. When Dragon and Starliner finally start flying though they'll be able to increase the number of people able to be on the station at once so net they're probably no worse off than before. Currently only 6 people (up to 9 but only briefly during a handover) can be on board at once because each Soyuz can only carry 3 people. Crew Dragon can hold up to 7 but most of the time will be flying with less, iirc 3-4.

sandworm1013• 7 years ago

> $35,000 (£27,500) per night.

That is cheaper than the multi-room suites on board the A380. It's cheaper than renting many boats.

Or maybe this is a trick. How long is a "night" on space station? Only an hour or so iirc. Maybe they get back to earth and get a surprise Expedia bill on their cc.

agotterer• 7 years ago

Yes, but won’t it costs millions to get there?

lprubin• 7 years ago

"These companies are likely to charge any private astronaut a similar "taxi fare" to what they intend to charge Nasa for its astronauts - close to $60m per flight."

sandworm1013• 7 years ago

But that money wouldn't be going to Nasa. They will get rides on private rockets. And so if they are going to be spending many millions on getting there, Nasa should be charging much much more than 40k/night. A million/night would be more than reasonable imho given what tourists will already be spending to get there.

dontbenebby• 7 years ago

I've heard that the laws of your home apply in space, so some Californian should get a 30 day lease then force them to evict them :D

Waterluvian2• 7 years ago

A great way to become the first human to be Spaced.

ceejayoz4• 7 years ago

State laws wouldn't apply. Only Federal.

pkaye3• 7 years ago

That is not unique to California. Most states have a lengthy eviction process.

minitoar• 7 years ago

Or there will be some surprise parking/docking fees.

gdcohen• 7 years ago

What about an oxygen consumption fee?

lallysingh• 7 years ago

It's always extra for wifi

Animats• 7 years ago

Launch cost extra.

komali2• 7 years ago

And atmospheric entry 10x extra. Unless you want to go the "bank account is drained" route, in which case they boot you out with feathers glued to your arms and wish you best of luck.

inamberclad• 7 years ago

$35K per night is oddly cheap, yeah. I think the ISS operates in the neighborhood of $6M per crewmember-day (where a day is 24 hours).

You're correct that there's no real night on the ISS. It sits in low earth orbit (LEO) and circles the Earth every 90 minutes. 45 minutes of sunlight, 45 minutes of shade.

dTal• 7 years ago

I wonder what the marginal cost per crewmember is. On the one hand, there's a lot of ground control infrastructure that supports the ISS that doesn't care how many crewmembers there are. On the other, the cost of resupply missions is probably directly proportional to the number of mouths.

Maybe it's $35k per night, but meals cost extra (a lot extra).

m463• 7 years ago

The trick is that (like national park camping spots) all accommodations are gone in seconds on https://recreation.gov

johnchristopher4• 7 years ago

Really off-topic and nit-picking: if you are going to editorialize the title to capital letters for every words (tourists -> Tourists) then do it at least for `NASA`.

While I Am At It, I Do Dislike random Capitalization :) and those rules https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/capitalization/rules-for-...

Kye2• 7 years ago

Acronyms that become words sometimes lose their capitalization. Nasa is headed there.

See also: laser, scuba, radar, modem.

johnchristopher4• 7 years ago

I don't think so. Which apparatus is a nasa supposed to be ?

edit: a laser, a scuba, a modem I can picture but what's a nasa ?

jessriedel• 7 years ago

In British English, it is common that only the initial letter of an acronym is capitalized if the acronym is read as a word, e.g., "Unesco", "Nasa", "Nato". The BBC in particular has this as an explicit editorial policy.

Klathmon• 7 years ago

[1] is a link to the NASA press release.

At a glance, it looks less about space tourism and more about enabling private companies to begin manufacturing and development in LEO or conduct experiments that NASA themselves don't need to be directly involved in.

In fact it seems to specifically call out that private astronauts are only allowed if they enable the allowed "activities".

Also, it looks like they are looking to have a dedicated "commercial" section of the ISS, and long term they want to have multiple commercial destinations in LEO!

[1] https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-opens-international-...

hanniabu• 7 years ago

It'd be great if they mandated that any research performed must be made public with free use of that research.

TaylorAlexander2• 7 years ago

Absolutely! The private company will have some high costs associated with a single trip, but it’s the taxpayers that footed most of the $100B station to make it all possible.

Robotbeat8• 7 years ago

So why would any private company fund such research?

wongarsu2• 7 years ago

I imagine this is pushed forwards by the advances in in-orbit production of optical fibre. From what I gather microgravity helps producing much better optical fibre, at a cheaper price than producing high quality optical fibre on earth, with a prototype production unit being shipped to the ISS [1].

Of course to further develop this commercially and gather funding you would need some assurance that there is actually a viable way to produce things in orbit without setting up an entire space station yourself. And that's exactly what NASA is announcing.

1: https://upward.issnationallab.org/the-race-to-manufacture-zb...

eutropia• 7 years ago

Nasa's announcement on Friday is part of a move towards full privatisation of the ISS. US President Donald Trump published a budget last year which called for the station to be defunded by the government by 2025.

I had no idea that the ISS was going to be de-funded. Does that even make sense?

dsfyu404ed• 7 years ago

I never heard this before and it doesn't pass the sniff test.

Not giving NASA as much money as they and the public would like is one thing, every congress and administration since probably LBJ does that. Specifically "de-funding" one of their flagship projects would cause massive public backlash. Besides, congress writes the budget. Anything Trump "publishes" is just political posturing without much meaning. Therefore I suspect that this is just some out of context or misrepresented tidbit that worked its way in after the author googled around to figure out the recent history of privatization of space. Then again, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Trump published a wish list budget and literally forgot to put NASA on it. I'm betting reality is probably more nuanced than the one sentence the author distilled it down to.

T-A• 7 years ago

https://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-plans-of-nasa-fun...

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/08/bringing-down-iss-pl...

ceejayoz4• 7 years ago

The ISS has had several defunding dates set and extended, by both Republican and Democratic administrations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station_pr...

inflatableDodo3• 7 years ago

"Plans to privatize the ISS made headlines earlier this year when NASA revealed The White House intended to pull the plug on federal finances in 2025. This isn't the first time privatization murmurs have surfaced for the space station, but a recent NASA audit suggests a conversion to private operation may not be feasible."
"According to NASA forecasts, there are two main options the ISS could take to stay afloat pending a lack of federal funding. The first proposition involves larger private sector investment, and the agency readily acknowledges it's already taken baby steps to increase commercialization."

https://www.engadget.com/2018/07/31/nasa-expresses-doubts-ov...

Robotbeat8• 7 years ago

The ISS has a limited life due to thermal cycling and such. (One hot/cold cycle every 90 minutes). Think airliner cycles. The first part was launched in 1998.

ISS was actually supposed to be deorbited in the 2015 timeframe under Bush II (to make funds available for the Constellation program), later extended to 2020 and then 2025.

I think most expect ISS to stay in orbit until 2028 or maybe a little later, so some extension is likely to happen regardless of what Trump's policy is (same as how Obama extended ISS). 30 years is a really long time for safety-critical space hardware, and ISS absorbs an astronomical amount of funding. It's not hyperbole to say that the Trump Moon shot would have plenty of funding if ISS wasn't around. We're talking about an additional $4-5 billion per year.

bluGill• 7 years ago

How does Russia feel about this? They have modules too, and face similar issues.

chungleong• 7 years ago

I remember being angry when Congress cancelled fundings for Superconducting Super Collider but kept those for Space Station Freedom. From a scientific discovery standpoint, the decision was utterly unjustifiable. I'm willing to accept the contention that space exploration is more than science--it's the fulfillment of Man's aspiration. But if the existence of the space station becomes an impediment to space exploration itself then what exactly is the point?

kawfey• 7 years ago

They've done this before. Charles Simonyi [0] went up to the ISS in 2007 and 2009. I got to talk to him via ham radio.

Space Adventures [1] has been doing it since 2001, but it seem they haven't had any recent trips.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Simonyi [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Adventures

makomk• 7 years ago

The previous space tourism was operated by the Russian space agency out of the Russian section of the ISS. NASA didn't particularly like this at the time but weren't in a position to do much about it.

cmancini2• 7 years ago

Most people talk about 1) tourism and 2) research which makes sense, but I can see a lot of benefit for marketing and branding. Imagine promo videos of someone using your gadget in space. A private company could fly up a few models/actors, a few of the latest brands goods, and get shots looking back at earth or floating around.

Luxury goods like watches and pens have already capitalized on this (Fisher Space Pen, Omega Moonwatch). I could see other high margin luxury brands snagging a seat:

- Sneakers (Air Jordans -> Space Jordans?)

- Jewelry (Diamond industry could play up a diamonds/stars theme)

- Fashion (play up the weightless/effortless aspect)

Any brand could get in on it if someone figured out the economics of a testing service. Small brands and Kickstarter projects could pool resources and fly up a few hundred toys and say they were 'tested in space'.

jackfoxy2• 7 years ago

fly up a few models/actors

More like 1, even for the biggest brands. This is going to be way expensive. I think you are onto a good idea, except I get the impression NASA will prioritize missions that contribute to commercial or science R&D and/or production.

jackfoxy2• 7 years ago

From the press release:

To qualify, commercial and marketing activities must either: require the unique microgravity environment to enable manufacturing, production or development of a commercial application; have a connection to NASA’s mission; or support the development of a sustainable low-Earth orbit economy.

vkou• 7 years ago

Imagine promo videos of someone using your gadget in space.

Corny as hell, and we can just film it on a greenscreen in LA.

Also, people look really freakin' goofy in zero-G.

treis• 7 years ago

Corny as hell, and we can just film it on a greenscreen in LA.

Or the "Vomit Comet"

perfmode• 7 years ago

“the best and brightest minds in the world ...”

callumprentice• 7 years ago

Whole new market for NoAirB&B rentals..

riffic• 7 years ago

Hey Bbc, it's NASA not Nasa.

ceejayoz4• 7 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization_in_English

In British English, only the initial letter of an acronym is capitalized if the acronym is read as a word, e.g., "Unesco."

You say "Bee Bee Cee", so they're the BBC. You do not say "Enn Aay Ess Aay", so it's "Nasa". "Nato" and "the UN". etc. Americans do it differently, but telling the folks who invented the language they're doing it wrong is a bit silly.

Gustomaximus• 7 years ago

Great information but adding the "but telling the folks who invented the language they're doing it wrong is a bit silly." seemed unnessesary, not least I'm sure BBC do make mistakes from time to time. Nothing wrong with polite questioning no matter how expert someone is.

captn3m0• 7 years ago

I remembered the EoL date for ISS being 2024, but it looks like a bill was passed this September extending it to 2030.

https://spacenews.com/house-joins-senate-in-push-to-extend-i...

aerophilic• 7 years ago

I love that they are doing this, but I am worried it may not be enough to keep the ISS up past 2024, but it is a good first step.

Some context for those that haven’t been following closely: It costs NASA over 4 billion a year to maintain the ISS. [0]

While the vast majority of that cost is transportation to/from the ISS (around 2.4 billion), there is a sizeable chuck that if they could “offload” to the private sector, may allow NASA to keep the ISS in orbit longer than currently planned.

The problem is, at least until they grow a true market, that market isn’t big enough to support that maintenance.

So, I believe the strategy (which makes sense) is try and get a true market/interest in the ISS going. If they can do that successfully, it should lower the cost for everyone, potentially allowing for even more things to happen in LEO.

So we will see, but I will note one of the biggest risks for SpaceX/Blue Origin/others doing commercial resupply is that once ISS disappears, there is no ready customer/market for their commercial offerings for crew. No way faster to kill the infant commercial crew space industry than to starve it of revenue.

[0] https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/fy_2018...

jakebaker• 7 years ago

Why not consider running an auction in the early years to maximize private funding for operations?

ggregoire• 7 years ago

From the official tweet:

@Space_Station is open for commercial business! Watch @Astro_Christina talk about the steps we're taking to make our orbiting laboratory accessible to all Americans.

Why is it limited only to Americans?

obmelvin2• 7 years ago

They are only allowing a very small number of people to go aboard, so I don't think it's that bizarre that a US agency is only picking Americans for the initial program.

pbhjpbhj4• 7 years ago

I think it's more the "for access to the international space station" part that the questioner is interested in?

If the ISS is actually international then shouldn't access be open to all.

Nor that one expects USA decision makers not to extend their imperialism to space though.

busymom0• 7 years ago

Could this be because of similar reasons why SpaceX can’t hire non US citizens due to their rockets qualifying as ICBMs? I remember Elon mentioning this in a press conference.

pkaye3• 7 years ago

Each part is owned by different countries. For example Russia used their part for commercial purposes for many years to bring in paying tourists.

jedberg• 7 years ago

Why is it limited only to Americans?

Security clearances. You can't even visit an aerospace company without being a US citizen or getting special clearance from the government.

PunksATawnyFill• 7 years ago

It's NASA. Why don't the Brits understand acronyms?

mratzloff• 7 years ago

It's Americans who are inconsistent with acronyms. Do you write LASER or RADAR? If it's pronounceable as a word, it's written as such. If it's pronounceable as letters, it's written how you would expect.

gsnedders• 7 years ago

To be fair, the BBC style guide[1] isn't totally consistent either, though in general, initialisms are upper-case and acronyms are title-case (as we see here).

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/academy/en/articles/art201307021121335...

consumer451• 7 years ago

If I may, I am personally very excited for more people, especially wealthy people, to go into space so that many of them experience the overview effect.[0]

The overview effect is a cognitive shift in awareness reported by some astronauts during spaceflight, often while viewing the Earth from outer space.
It is the experience of seeing firsthand the reality of the Earth in space, which is immediately understood to be a tiny, fragile ball of life, "hanging in the void", shielded and nourished by a paper-thin atmosphere. From space, national boundaries vanish, the conflicts that divide people become less important, and the need to create a planetary society with the united will to protect this "pale blue dot" becomes both obvious and imperative.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect

dpflan2• 7 years ago

Conceptually, I agree with your idea. I would like a lottery to emerge for anyone to get a space flight to experience the overview effect -- something I think that could reinvigorate interest in science and the planet.

Now I wonder if the Overview Effect can be addictive...

DuskStar2• 7 years ago

I'd need some serious convincing to accept that sending a randomly selected person into space would have anything close to the positive impact that sending the "Larry Ellison"s of the world into space could.

tyingq• 7 years ago

I imagine the overview effect might be something dramatically different for a sociopath.

ketozhang• 7 years ago

I wonder if VR would provide the same effect with today's technology or of the upcoming future.

lanewinfield• 7 years ago

I thought the same as soon as I read the original comment—I've had minor but similar feeling in VR. Try "Irrational Exuberance."

mkagenius2• 7 years ago

Pretty sure, even a normal video gives me the feels.

mhh__• 7 years ago

Or LSD like the good old days

microcolonel• 7 years ago

Gotta say though, I think the overview effect is its own form of delusion. Whether you think other strangers' conflicts are petty or not is immaterial to whether or not they should continue. You can't just not conflict, it's simply not an option. From the extremely privileged (not to downplay the incredibly hard work and model perseverance of astronauts) perspective of an astronaut, of course other people's kinds of lives seem trivial, because you have no idea how other people live.

kodz42• 7 years ago

How come no Russian cosmonauts have reported this?

Americans and their weird need to turn everything they feel into something marketable more like it...

mkagenius2• 7 years ago

How come no Russian cosmonauts have reported this?

May have reported but is kept as a state secret? Also, it could be in russian which we can't understand.

ptrott2017• 7 years ago

Both Valentin Lebedev and Anatoty Berzovoy have reported similar experiences to name two cosmonauts. Unlike most US astronauts, many cosmonauts continue working for government and do not publish books, or engage in public speaking in the same way (largely due to fewer marketing opportunities), so the overview efect tends to be reported largely from a US perspective. However UK astronaut Time Peak reported similar findings as has, Swiss astronaut Claude Nicollier and dutch astronaut Andre Kuipers (to name a few others). It will be interesting to see as the taikonauts begin to talk about their space experiences, if they report it or not.

fiblye2• 7 years ago

If it becomes cheap enough, it’ll eventually be a thing CEOs do to give meat to their motivational speeches and brag about how accomplished they are, much like climbing Everest. I fear it being less of a “I’m going to try to understand the world more after going to space”, and more of a “I understand the world more because I went to space and you didn’t.”

droithomme• 7 years ago

The food and room service better be top notch for what I'm paying here! Commander Kononenko, when the heck is my laundry gonna be done?! Hop hop!

Nasa to Open International Space Station to Tourists

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